Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 12 | |
From: Mar 28, 1998 |
To: Apr 4, 1998 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 03:49:39 (EST)
Poster: Sheesh! Email: *.* bill burke To: Everyone Subject: What The Heck Is That About? Message: I just woke up from a rather lengthy dream. I don't have dreams that I wake up to very often. Quite rarely. And as I look back on them they are about the same subject. It was a dream with you know who and I- Me, ended up saying ' Your a really good person.' He was a bit surprised i guess he was expecting more. Here I am actively initiating a wide range of projects against him starting this week and this has to happen. Guess it's time for Mr. Amazing: Hello Again Mr. Amazing, (for any new readers this is how I talk to god). So Anyway, what is the deal here? You know that meeting I went to where last week the topic was Hero's and this stuff was said,-''The fool is not someone who is either uneducated or lacking in mental equipment. At the most basic level, the fool lacks humility. The writings of the prophets are filled with protests against the self-destroying folly of those who reject god. Isaiah complained about the enchantment of self-deception that comes with Idolitry, makeing it impossible to recognise folly for what it is. Proud self-confident, and stubborn, the fool denies god and his authority and deems himself capable of true judgement apart from any other advice or accountability. He loudly assumes the role of pseudohero.'' If you hsve been foolish exalting yourself, put your hand on your mouth.(proverbs) '' The fool is one who thinks he or she has beaten the system, outwitted an absent, impersonal, feeble or uncaring god. In other words, we can do as we please because there is no personal god who can see us or hear us, and who has the power or authority to do anything about it if he cared. When the desire for the affirmation of our uniqueness is fulfilled through others, it can become insatable. When all distinction comes from public action, the stakes of fame get higher, the actions more grandiose. Yet if god is our primary audience, that brings two changes. We can be assured if being loved and accepted by him-apart from public sentiment-as we come to him in humility and faith. Also he unmasks our attempts at impression management. He sees through anything and everything-even our thoughts. Every moment is a 'naked' moment before him. Therefore, this can bring us both a deep confidence in his love and also a powerful incentive for our own integrity. If a person is confident of thier relationship to god, they can achieve even in the smallest daily tasks the joy of the soul.'' Whatever. Is this dream about letting me off the hook about this war effort? With eyes open I reject his notion to be god-incarnate. You have some other scenario for for stopping him? That must be the case. Couldn't you just give me a dream where you show up as ANYTHING else, a cat for all I care, and say 'don't worry about stopping him with your war effort, Ive got a plan of my own.' I am still inclined to proceed but the dream has me putting on the brakes. Oh well! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 05:21:29 (EST)
Poster: It's a Email: *.*bb To: Sheesh! Subject: new dawn (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: Probably this dream was just a way to break the fate of haveing my rightful hate of him chain me to him in another way. I have a very good life now and his involvement is a constricting poison. I will track down a couple people and ask them to tell thier story. This web site will trigger other things and his own foolish evil will only worsen. The fake lord of the universe is being unmasked and the unraveling will continue. The blind deaf zealotry is the fruits, and nature rejects his touch. My zeal for his destruction has been removed so that I can live without him for a while in my life. Here I am surrounded by good real people and this evil hindu god fraud has his stupid foot in my life. There are many people that have many stories about rawat and they will find their way here. I hereby promise myself to never read another post by cd or mili. It is like the scientology web sites where there are paid posters who endlessly proclaim the claim that fraud Hubbard is whatever he claims to be. I was a foolish one who became a devotee of a fake lord of the universe. Best to schedule in some time without his sick influence. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 10:24:45 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Sheesh! Subject: Deep Thoughts (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: Bill: I see dreams as part of the totality of myself, not as separate from myself. 'The kingdom of heaven is within' means the same thing to me as 'all the characters,events, feelings, etc. of my dreams are ME, and indicate how indescribely vast the human experience is'. I have had a few God dreams, that is one in which I talk with God, and in fact the few I have had, God did not take the form of my ex guru. Also, I have had experiences in my dreams in which I was visited by an energetic force which filled me with indescribeable bliss, and the guru was nowhere to be seen. I am not going anywhere with this other than some part of you is compensating for the anger you feel and maintaining good terms with every aspect of your indescribeably vast self. So, you have a dream in which you kiss and make up with the guru, while another part of your self is expressing negative feelings for the guru. Feeling anger and revenge is no way to live and 'you' know that. Can you express your sentiments for the guru and not feel the anger? I think that is the state that your deeper self knows you need to achieve. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 10:27:36 (EST)
Poster: David de Camembert Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: It's a Subject: Re: new dawn (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: Found out yesterday that I can still do the nectar technique will my new false teeth in. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 10:53:44 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: It's a Subject: Re: new dawn (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: bb, Hate is most destructive to the person who is owning it-from my own experiences. I think that one can take action against people who have wronged them without involving hate. This can only work if you have gotten to the point where you have let go of that hate. (Of course I don't know what you had planned for Mr. Rawat. Murder would involve hate.) Lawsuits do not have to involve hate. Even writing a book could be a way to rid yourself of demons, but if hate has you strapped to a writers desk, then it is to your own detriment. If there is an honest desire to save others the pain that you suffered, that is a different matter. It is, IMHO a question of motives. Are your plans contributing something good to someone else and to yourself or are you just trying to get revenge? It sounds as if you are asking yourself some very important questions. Listen to the answers that you know to be true. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 06:54:21 (EST)
Poster: saatguroovy Email: *.*bb To: John K. Subject: participanties (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: Hi Johnny boy, thanks for the input. Your right of course, VP also. Yesterday I was wrapping up my work on this alter for the nuns at thier monastary and I was having lunch outside in this perfect summer day. Two guys were walking the gardens back and forth holding rosarys and they came over to talk. Here is a couple things they said; They were on the lookout for the antichrist because 1998 is three times 666. I said well, I have a candidate for you. Either I know the antichrist or I know a few antichrists. If maharji is the lord then we are the antichrists. And since he isn't the lord he could be the antichrist because, well, you know, the crown, the quotes from Jim, kiss my feet, think of me at the moment of death,ect.ect. 'the master is god incarnate, the most god-like,' One of them said that when his sister was 6 years old she was into the rosary and she had a vision that she was there with god and the devil and the devil said he wanted her and god said you can have her because she will help to fight the antichrist.(sort of a trojan horse I suppose), and the girl told her family and the brother remembers and so does she and she has been involved with new age groups for a while and so I asked 'maharaji?' and he said 'no, the celestian propecy group in peru' I said ' well, she is in the wrong group' A nun came by and I left to go back to work without plugging them into the web site. I didn't think they were needed in any effort. Odd isn't that? My wife said she dreams about stuff sometimes when it is bothering her for some reason. I decided to realize that certainly rawat has no such powers or his life would be a lot different and I know from listening to him that he is on a mission from his confused dad and he has ASSUMED the play acting role of god and has nothing to back it up. I wont take any messages or interpretations from that dream and if the power of life want to butt in a dream it can do it some other way without my nemesis. I think I'll take Anon's suggestion however. By the way, participant neglected to mention 3 -3 day events in the US this year. Miami in may, new england in june, la in oct. I guess the hall's still aren't secured. You cannot get global event info from normal sources, only your country. Or nearby. You have to request info about particular countries and of course computer novice participant(rawat?) drops off a large list against all the normal procedures and saays they are making flight travel plans. well, participant, make sure to have 'FURY' with the staff for 'laziness,stupidity,and inconsideration' when things dont go your divine way. Let them know who's lord around here. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 09:59:32 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: saatguroovy Subject: Re: participanties (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: Hi Johnny boy, thanks for the input. Your right of course, VP also. Yesterday I was wrapping up my work on this alter for the nuns at thier monastary and I was having lunch outside in this perfect summer day. Two guys were walking the gardens back and forth holding rosarys and they came over to talk. Here is a couple things they said; They were on the lookout for the antichrist because 1998 is three times 666. I said well, I have a candidate for you. Either I know the antichrist or I know a few antichrists. If maharji is the lord then we are the antichrists. And since he isn't the lord he could be the antichrist because, well, you know, the crown, the quotes from Jim, kiss my feet, think of me at the moment of death,ect.ect. 'the master is god incarnate, the most god-like,' One of them said that when his sister was 6 years old she was into the rosary and she had a vision that she was there with god and the devil and the devil said he wanted her and god said you can have her because she will help to fight the antichrist.(sort of a trojan horse I suppose), and the girl told her family and the brother remembers and so does she and she has been involved with new age groups for a while and so I asked 'maharaji?' and he said 'no, the celestian propecy group in peru' I said ' well, she is in the wrong group' A nun came by and I left to go back to work without plugging them into the web site. I didn't think they were needed in any effort. Odd isn't that? My wife said she dreams about stuff sometimes when it is bothering her for some reason. I decided to realize that certainly rawat has no such powers or his life would be a lot different and I know from listening to him that he is on a mission from his confused dad and he has ASSUMED the play acting role of god and has nothing to back it up. I wont take any messages or interpretations from that dream and if the power of life want to butt in a dream it can do it some other way without my nemesis. I think I'll take Anon's suggestion however. By the way, participant neglected to mention 3 -3 day events in the US this year. Miami in may, new england in june, la in oct. I guess the hall's still aren't secured. You cannot get global event info from normal sources, only your country. Or nearby. You have to request info about particular countries and of course computer novice participant(rawat?) drops off a large list against all the normal procedures and saays they are making flight travel plans. well, participant, make sure to have 'FURY' with the staff for 'laziness,stupidity,and inconsideration' when things dont go your divine way. Let them know who's lord around here. I thought Jack Nicholson was the Antichrist as testified by the Witches of Eastwick. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 12:11:19 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: VP Subject: Re: new dawn (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: [--- snip ---] . . . if hate has you strapped to a writers desk, then it is to your own detriment. If there is an honest desire to save others the pain that you suffered, that is a different matter. It is, IMHO a question of motives. [--- snip ---] great post, VP. Amen to all that. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 01:16:19 (EST)
Poster: Actually Email: To: saatguroovy Subject: 2 3 day events (Re: What The Heck Is That About?) Message: By the way, participant neglected to mention 3 -3 day events in the US this year. Miami in may, new england in june, la in oct. 1 3 day in Miami - May 1 3 day in Anaheim - September 1 3 day in London - June 1 3 day in Barcelona - September Several 1 day events: Atlantic City, Montreal, Denver, Seattle Athens, Rome, Brighton, Portugal, Africa, Mexico, etc ... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 17:35:39 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Okay, enough's enough already. Is there a single premie out there who is willing to discuss Maharaji honestly and rationally? Just one? Dear premies who read this page, So many premies have darted in here and there. Almost all are anonymous for some reason. Some show up with a few barbed -- or what they THINK are barbed -- comments. Others start off with long polemics and screeds. Still others come as friendly, if evasive 'peace-keepers'. Not a single premie has been able to actually discuss Maharaji without stonewalling or freaking out. Chris, a site-specific premie, for example, mentions Socrates in a post below. Well I've read a little Plato myself and, I've got to tell you, it doesn't seem like any of the premies here could last more than a minute talking with him. Socrates, after all, always asks those HARD QUESTIONS. Really makes you THINK. But I figure there have to be at least a few premies who have gone on to study a bit here and there, who might have also come across Socrates and actually enjoyed the dialogues, both for their content as well as their spirit. Aren't any of you willing to subject your own lives to a little honest scrutiny? Or have you somehow made Maharaji a 'no fly' zone? Now how in the world did he trick you into doing that? Oh, sorry. I guess your contract won't let you answer that question either, will it? OOPS! Did it again! That, too, is a taboo question, right? Shit! I did it again! Oh well. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 18:43:52 (EST)
Poster: John Kluge Email: JKLUGE45@AOL.COM To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Well, I'm not really sure what it is you want to know. I haven't seen Maharaji in years, so if you're looking for current events, I have none. If you want to know what I have experienced with him, I'm open to that. If you are looking for some sort of intellectual debate citing various philosophers, we'll more than likely hit an impasse. But shoot me a note. I will be honest with you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 18:55:14 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: But I figure there have to be at least a few premies who have gone on to study a bit here and there, who might have also come across Socrates 'Wisdom begins in wonder.' Socrates What does it mean to 'Know Thyself'? Check out some Socrates Quotes Explore the Fundamental Problem with Logic. Is this the New Socrates? Have fun and manifest the source of optimism in your life, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 19:01:15 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: John Kluge Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Well, I'm not really sure what it is you want to know. I haven't seen Maharaji in years, so if you're looking for current events, I have none. If you want to know what I have experienced with him, I'm open to that. If you are looking for some sort of intellectual debate citing various philosophers, we'll more than likely hit an impasse. But shoot me a note. I will be honest with you. Thanks John, I'll tell you where I'm coming from. I say Maharaji's a fraud because he claimed to be the all-powerful, all-knowing Lord of the Universe, Saviour of Mankind and wasn't. Premies have tried to defend him in various ways: 1) He never said he was any of all that, I must have misunderstood. 2) He did make those claims but has since grown up and no longer says anything of the sort. Although he may have been mistaken, he is still a (the?) Perfect Master. 3) He IS still the Lord of the Universe, Saviour of Mankind. So, before we go any further, how do you see Maharaji in this respect? (I should warn you, I've got a number of quotes of his that make it pretty hard to argue No. 1. You can find samples under the post below 'Will Chris ever be an FMP?') Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 19:04:00 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Pretty lame, Chris (not to mention RUDE!) (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: But I figure there have to be at least a few premies who have gone on to study a bit here and there, who might have also come across Socrates 'Wisdom begins in wonder.' Socrates What does it mean to 'Know Thyself'? Check out some Socrates Quotes Explore the Fundamental Problem with Logic. Is this the New Socrates? Have fun and manifest the source of optimism in your life, CD There you go again, Chris. You want me to answer YOUR questions but you ignore mine. Why should I play this game with you? Frankly, Chris, you end up looking like you're afraid to actually have a discussion. All you have to offer are these little asides and some dumb fortune cookie talk. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 19:31:39 (EST)
Poster: John Email: jkluge45@aol.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: I read the quotes. They are things I heard him say and I've seen them in print. The first few times I saw him, I thought that that was pretty presumptious and was prepared to hike on down the road. You may remember the time when someone paid a guy to put a pie in GMJ's face at a program. If you saw that, you would have a hard time thinking of him as God. What finally clicked for me was hearing him refer to his Guru Maharaji. To me, there is a connection between all of us that extends from the smallest particle of matter to the energy that is God (this is not a physics discussion of energy).Time after time, Maharaji said he was a teacher and his job is to teach anyone who wants to listen about the perfection of which we are a part. I understand that language is woefully inadequate when it comes to describing things that are not a part of our usuall experiences; but words are what we use to try and communicate our feelings to others. So often the connection between us is fragile or clouded, leading to confusion, distrust and frustration. It finally comes down to what I feel is true for me and what you feel is best for you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 19:40:50 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: John Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: I read the quotes. They are things I heard him say and I've seen them in print. The first few times I saw him, I thought that that was pretty presumptious and was prepared to hike on down the road. You may remember the time when someone paid a guy to put a pie in GMJ's face at a program. If you saw that, you would have a hard time thinking of him as God. What finally clicked for me was hearing him refer to his Guru Maharaji. To me, there is a connection between all of us that extends from the smallest particle of matter to the energy that is God (this is not a physics discussion of energy).Time after time, Maharaji said he was a teacher and his job is to teach anyone who wants to listen about the perfection of which we are a part. I understand that language is woefully inadequate when it comes to describing things that are not a part of our usuall experiences; but words are what we use to try and communicate our feelings to others. So often the connection between us is fragile or clouded, leading to confusion, distrust and frustration. It finally comes down to what I feel is true for me and what you feel is best for you. John, Thanks for your post. I'm afraid, however, that you didn't answer my question. See, you're definitely commenting on the quotes. I appreciate that. Chris, as you'll notice, won't even do that. But you still haven't answered me. Are you saying that once you heard Maharaji talk about HIS Guru Maharaj Ji it 'finally clicked' and you didn't have such a hard time 'thinking of him as God'? If so, is that how you see him now? Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 20:55:50 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Not meant to be RUDE (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Jim, Sorry I wasn't clearer. My intent was not to pose any new question to you. I put up the post with a few tidbits and links that people looking into Socrates or logic might find of interest. Some background information related to your mention of Socrates and what he might have been up to. Regards, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 21:58:32 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Not meant to be RUDE (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Jim, Sorry I wasn't clearer. My intent was not to pose any new question to you. I put up the post with a few tidbits and links that people looking into Socrates or logic might find of interest. Some background information related to your mention of Socrates and what he might have been up to. Regards, CD Chris, It's very hard to consider your apology genuine when you choose to ALWAYS talk this way. You try to stay as cryptic as you can, Chris. It really looks like you find conversation poisonous. You know how at times it's caused people to wonder if you're 'all there' as they say. Yet, whenever you've wanted to, like when you want to warn some new person to not take this site too seriously, you somehow find it in you to talk normally. Only then do you settle the question many have had, 'what in the world is with this guy?' So you didn't intend to ask me a question, eh? Now what the hell are you saying here? That you didn't intend to have a discussion and are so sorry that you kind of fell into one anyway? 'Cowardly' might not be the right word. But it sure is weird. Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 22:31:28 (EST)
Poster: John Email: jkluge45@aol.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: I read the quotes. They are things I heard him say and I've seen them in print. The first few times I saw him, I thought that that was pretty presumptious and was prepared to hike on down the road. You may remember the time when someone paid a guy to put a pie in GMJ's face at a program. If you saw that, you would have a hard time thinking of him as God. What finally clicked for me was hearing him refer to his Guru Maharaji. To me, there is a connection between all of us that extends from the smallest particle of matter to the energy that is God (this is not a physics discussion of energy).Time after time, Maharaji said he was a teacher and his job is to teach anyone who wants to listen about the perfection of which we are a part. I understand that language is woefully inadequate when it comes to describing things that are not a part of our usuall experiences; but words are what we use to try and communicate our feelings to others. So often the connection between us is fragile or clouded, leading to confusion, distrust and frustration. It finally comes down to what I feel is true for me and what you feel is best for you. John, Thanks for your post. I'm afraid, however, that you didn't answer my question. See, you're definitely commenting on the quotes. I appreciate that. Chris, as you'll notice, won't even do that. But you still haven't answered me. Are you saying that once you heard Maharaji talk about HIS Guru Maharaj Ji it 'finally clicked' and you didn't have such a hard time 'thinking of him as God'? If so, is that how you see him now? Jim Sorry, I am unclear at times. I have never thought of GMJ as God. I have never thought that he meant for me to believe that. I think that anyone who believes that is nuts. What I believe is that he showed me a way to experience God personally, on my own, without having to have some priest hold my hand. I am very, very grateful for that and every time I have seen him, touched him or listened to him has been a major life experience for me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 23:38:33 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Jim Subject: Godel brings nothing to this discussion (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Jim, Chris and John: Don't wish to be taken as rude, but the references to Socrates and to Godel's theorem might be appropriate if they said something conclusive about the issue at hand, or the conditions of the dialogue. I don't know that it is particularly relevant that there are some things that logic can't prove. If logic can't prove them, and they are true, then they impact everyone the same whether they are believed in or not. If GMJ comes under this category then it makes absolutely no difference whether you follow him or not. There is nothing further to discuss. If a disparate impact exists, or in other words if it makes a difference, this would make the proposition at least acceptable if the impact were positive or beneficial, and unacceptable if the impact were non-beneficial. In other words, Godel is not talking about the kinds of things we are talking about. By definition he's talking about the things that are the context of this dialogue, that we don't even recognize as contextual. At minimum he's talking about what J. Habermas and a number of other like-minded left-leaning philosophers refer to as the 'Lebenswelt' or the 'Lifeworld,' or something equally exogenous. We can raise components of this context in order to dispel their mystique, but the capacity to do this brings the component out of hiding, and again it is not what Godel is referring to. What we can deal with, and have an obligation to pursue, are those things that can be disproved. If GMJ can't be falsified then neither he nor his mission is relevant to anything that we might do to impact our circumstances or the broader human condition. CD, making something non-falsifiable is not a refuge, it's a defeat. Don't you understand this? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 00:05:05 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Godel brings nothing to this discussion (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Thanks Scott, you took the words right out of my mouth. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 01:22:42 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: John Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Sorry, I am unclear at times. I have never thought of GMJ as God. I have never thought that he meant for me to believe that. I think that anyone who believes that is nuts. What I believe is that he showed me a way to experience God personally, on my own, without having to have some priest hold my hand. I am very, very grateful for that and every time I have seen him, touched him or listened to him has been a major life experience for me. Bear with me here, John. I don't mean to be rude and I do sincerely appreciate your sincerity. I give you full benefit of the doubt for trying to be responsive. However, you still haven't asnwered my question. If, as you say you never thought of Maharaji as God and think that anyone who thinks he is must be nuts (that would have been me and all my buddies at one ponit, I'm afraid), how do you explain Maharaji saying: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Remember, the world's watching. Many ex's say it's impossible, I'll never find a premie who can discuss Maharaji. Chris, Mili, you name 'em, all the premies are their proof. I say I may be as naive as the day I put that little banana on the altar in Colorado Springs and tried to bow away my very soul, but I can't believe that it's as bad as all that. Please, John, answer the question. How do you explain those quotes? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 01:31:15 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: First of all, Jim, I don't think you are serious about these discussions at all. It's all just a sick little game for you that you indulge in, and now you can't stop even if you wanted to. If you were serious about these discussions you would at least be scrupulous enough to acknowledge that you are not defining some key terms that you are taking for granted here. Like for instance 'God'. Obviously, the 'God' you are talking about is not what I mean by 'God'. My God is something I have personally experienced and know to exist. It is an inner perception of Light, an ocean of energy and consciousness. There is no logical way I could PROVE that to you, unless you have seen and felt that thing yourself. You take a very odd line of reasoning in saying that Maharaji has in the past said: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? You say that just because he doesn't say these things now, he is somehow denying that, and saying it wasn't true. Really, that is just your arbitrary interpretation. Why should he repeat himself? He said it once, or twice - wasn't that enough for you? What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 04:08:34 (EST)
Poster: If he is the god incarnate Email: *.*bb To: Mili Subject: why are you still in croatia? (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Christ Mili, I was with a bunch of peple today who have thier own experience of god and obviously a mother-hateing guy is not required for that. People get a 100% complete experience of god by being humbley real with the real god power. And no amount of wishful thinking and poseing by rawat will make him god incarnate. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 11:04:50 (EST)
Poster: John Kluge Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Maybe I can't give you an answer that will make you comfortable with everything that happened between you and GMJ. As for the quotes attributing infinite powers to Guru Maharaji spoken by GMJ, that's what I was talking about when I said he referred to HIS Guru Maharaji. I look at it like this; if we all have God 'within inside of us' and we are all a part of God, then don't we also share powers? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 11:23:54 (EST)
Poster: John Kluge Email: jkluge45@aol.com To: Mili Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: First of all, Jim, I don't think you are serious about these discussions at all. It's all just a sick little game for you that you indulge in, and now you can't stop even if you wanted to. If you were serious about these discussions you would at least be scrupulous enough to acknowledge that you are not defining some key terms that you are taking for granted here. Like for instance 'God'. Obviously, the 'God' you are talking about is not what I mean by 'God'. My God is something I have personally experienced and know to exist. It is an inner perception of Light, an ocean of energy and consciousness. There is no logical way I could PROVE that to you, unless you have seen and felt that thing yourself. You take a very odd line of reasoning in saying that Maharaji has in the past said: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? You say that just because he doesn't say these things now, he is somehow denying that, and saying it wasn't true. Really, that is just your arbitrary interpretation. Why should he repeat himself? He said it once, or twice - wasn't that enough for you? What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. Milli, thank you..What you said is much clearer than what I have been saying, although the feelings are the same. Language is such a pain!! Anyhoo, I think that so much of this anger is misplaced. Who lied to who? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 12:12:31 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: John Kluge Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: RE: What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. John & Mili: Actually, I thought John's explanation MUCH clearer. Mili, if the thing above is what he meant to say, then why didn't he say it that way? Why obfuscate BY DESIGN if your intentions are pure? It's a very peculiar way to convince people that you're honest. John's explanation that his words were statements of devotion toward HIS guru is a lot more plausible. One has to give some latitude to those making devotional statements, but he now owes it to us to clear up the ambiguity in these declarations. Does HE explain them the way John has, and if so what are the implications? Time to get this settled. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 12:50:54 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Scott, I still can't help but feel awe when I read and see the photos about how this twelve-year old Indian boy spoke in front of a million people in New Delhi on November 20, 1970. After weeping for nearly an hour, he said: 'These tears are not because I am remembering my father, but because I am feeling so much power in me. They are tears of strength. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come, the wordly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the savior of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who come to me are already saved. Now it's your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Give me your love, I will give you peace. Come to me, I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. All I ask of you is your love. All I ask is your trust. And what I can give you is such a peace as will never die. I declare I will establish peace in this world. But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and truth?' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 12:58:04 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: First of all, Jim, I don't think you are serious about these discussions at all. It's all just a sick little game for you that you indulge in, and now you can't stop even if you wanted to. If you were serious about these discussions you would at least be scrupulous enough to acknowledge that you are not defining some key terms that you are taking for granted here. Like for instance 'God'. Obviously, the 'God' you are talking about is not what I mean by 'God'. My God is something I have personally experienced and know to exist. It is an inner perception of Light, an ocean of energy and consciousness. There is no logical way I could PROVE that to you, unless you have seen and felt that thing yourself. You take a very odd line of reasoning in saying that Maharaji has in the past said: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? You say that just because he doesn't say these things now, he is somehow denying that, and saying it wasn't true. Really, that is just your arbitrary interpretation. Why should he repeat himself? He said it once, or twice - wasn't that enough for you? What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. Mili, don't call me 'insincere.' It's a bogus red-herring. Makes YOU look insincere, by the way. Either you sit down and discuss or you don't. I've never jumped up from the table. You've never done anything but. Anyway, you fault me for not defining 'God.' I'll go by the common dictionary definitions, Mili, and complimentary ones that Maharaji employed (e.g., 'Generator, Operator and Destroyer'). But, that too, I'm afraid is a just a red herring. It's not a question of what I mean by any of those claims, it's a question of what Maharaji did. That's the question and, for the record, you still haven't asnwered it. You DID say two weeks ago that you never thought Maharaji was the messiah. Kind of like John Kluge saying that anyone who did must have been nuts. Explain, then, Maharaji saying that he's the 'saviour of mankind.' How do YOU define messiah if not in those terms. Finally, Mili, you argue that because Maharaji doesn't keep repeating the claims he made in those quotes, it's not to say he has retracted or rejected any of them. What? Are you kidding? And you talk about sincerity. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 13:03:17 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: John Kluge Subject: John Kluge takes refuge in Mili (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: First of all, Jim, I don't think you are serious about these discussions at all. It's all just a sick little game for you that you indulge in, and now you can't stop even if you wanted to. If you were serious about these discussions you would at least be scrupulous enough to acknowledge that you are not defining some key terms that you are taking for granted here. Like for instance 'God'. Obviously, the 'God' you are talking about is not what I mean by 'God'. My God is something I have personally experienced and know to exist. It is an inner perception of Light, an ocean of energy and consciousness. There is no logical way I could PROVE that to you, unless you have seen and felt that thing yourself. You take a very odd line of reasoning in saying that Maharaji has in the past said: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? You say that just because he doesn't say these things now, he is somehow denying that, and saying it wasn't true. Really, that is just your arbitrary interpretation. Why should he repeat himself? He said it once, or twice - wasn't that enough for you? What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. Milli, thank you..What you said is much clearer than what I have been saying, although the feelings are the same. Language is such a pain!! Anyhoo, I think that so much of this anger is misplaced. Who lied to who? John, old boy, You're falling short of rationality just like every other premie who's tried to discuss GMJ. First you tell me that anyone who ever thought he was God was nuts. Now you say that when Maharaji himself claimed it,like in the quotes above where he says it about as clearly as imaginable, he hasn't waivered ever since. 'Language is such a pain' suggests that you really aren't up to a discussion about Maharaji, doesn't it? If we were talking about anything else I doubt that you'd have such difficulty. I also doubt that you'll be honest enough to admit this obvious fact. Sorry. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 13:03:19 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: Mili: Regarding: I still can't help but feel awe when I read and see the photos about how this twelve-year old Indian boy spoke in front of a million people in New Delhi on November 20, 1970. After weeping for nearly an hour, he said: etc. There is some irony between these statements and some of his later behavior. Also, in spite of the tears this seemss to be a 'succession to power' speech. He clearly was not your run-of-the-mill eight-year-old, however. Nonetheless the speech is almost pathetic in retrospect. Such high aspirations, so short of the mark. And, of course, it's all our fault the promise wasn't realized. On second thought maybe he has always been a typical eight-year-old. Scott T. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 13:06:36 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie Message: First of all, Jim, I don't think you are serious about these discussions at all. It's all just a sick little game for you that you indulge in, and now you can't stop even if you wanted to. If you were serious about these discussions you would at least be scrupulous enough to acknowledge that you are not defining some key terms that you are taking for granted here. Like for instance 'God'. Obviously, the 'God' you are talking about is not what I mean by 'God'. My God is something I have personally experienced and know to exist. It is an inner perception of Light, an ocean of energy and consciousness. There is no logical way I could PROVE that to you, unless you have seen and felt that thing yourself. You take a very odd line of reasoning in saying that Maharaji has in the past said: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharaji is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maharaji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? You say that just because he doesn't say these things now, he is somehow denying that, and saying it wasn't true. Really, that is just your arbitrary interpretation. Why should he repeat himself? He said it once, or twice - wasn't that enough for you? What I see is that what he is saying now is consistent with what he said before. The thrust of his message, or teaching if you will - that you can experience God thru the Knowledge, and that the importance of the Master (as a catalyst, a source of inspiration) is a key factor in your having that experience, is exactly the same as it ever was. Mili, don't call me 'insincere.' It's a bogus red-herring. Makes YOU look insincere, by the way. Either you sit down and discuss or you don't. I've never jumped up from the table. You've never done anything but. Anyway, you fault me for not defining 'God.' I'll go by the common dictionary definitions, Mili, and complimentary ones that Maharaji employed (e.g., 'Generator, Operator and Destroyer'). But, that too, I'm afraid is a just a red herring. It's not a question of what I mean by any of those claims, it's a question of what Maharaji did. That's the question and, for the record, you still haven't asnwered it. You DID say two weeks ago that you never thought Maharaji was the messiah. Kind of like John Kluge saying that anyone who did must have been nuts. Explain, then, Maharaji saying that he's the 'saviour of mankind.' How do YOU define messiah if not in those terms. Finally, Mili, you argue that because Maharaji doesn't keep repeating the claims he made in those quotes, it's not to say he has retracted or rejected any of them. What? Are you kidding? And you talk about sincerity. I guess I'll have to reconsider that 'Messiah' thing. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 13:09:38 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili, like Chris, can't talk responsively (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Again, Mili, you're avoiding discussion. Maharaji says he's the 'sviour of humanity' here but you laughed at that suggestion just two weeks ago. John laughed at the notion that Maharaji was God although he's clearly said that too. I don't think anyone reading any of this would fail to conclude that the premies cannot afford to think clearly about Maharaji. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 15:33:52 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Jim Subject: An FMNP (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Mili and John: A number of the statements that Jim has quoted could be interpreted as Maharaji's reference to a 'big' Maharaj Ji in the sky, or a greater spirit within if you insist. In some of the quotes he does appear to be speaking in the third person, and in others his language is ambiguous enough that he might be making such a third person reference. Mili provided us with the full text of his transition speech at the age of eight, and in that speech he is clearly talking in both senses. He is talking about his father (not a 'big spirit' in the sky, or within, but a deceased head of movement... somewhere). However, he clearly makes a transition so that he begins to refer to himself in the first person an the following passage: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come, the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? He could hardly have left out this first person reference because the people that had backed him in the succession would have demanded it. If he had attempted to water down the message the Indians would have left him in droves to follow either Mata Ji or BBJ. Later, he could have repudiated that statement under Mishler's urging, and according to Bob's account considered doing so, but decided to go another way. He never had the sort of upbringing as J. Krishnamurti that would have given him the moral capacity to pull that off. No one around him was really interested in him, or in his development as a person. Very few in the original inner circle that cared for him in his early youth were even sincerely interested in God. What interested them were bank accounts and golden shitters, etc. The succession controversy is a better explanation for his words than the interpretation of John Kluge, which explain only the third person references. Clearly, in the succession he would have to pay some homage to the past Guru and Gurus in order the legitimate his own claim. It need not be any more complicated than that. The succession controversy was over in the early 80s, or even before that, so he would not have been under the same pressure (apart from his own preferences to be revered) so it's understandable that he ceased to make the claims. However, and this is important, he never expressly repudiated them. To do so would have required that he stand on his own two feet. It would have acknowledged that he made a mistake, although like Krishnamurti he could have ascribed it to the influence of others. As long as we wasn't making the claim to divinity that is an acceptable out. With each passing year that became harder to do and he just deferred it. His capacity to make tough decisions is not exactly legendary. So, what we have here is nothing more nor less than a fraud who always tries to have his cake and eat it too. He apparently has an army of followers that are hell-bent on helping him destroy his life by enabling him. Isn't love wonderful? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 15:57:03 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: An FMNP (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Mili and John: A number of the statements that Jim has quoted could be interpreted as Maharaji's reference to a 'big' Maharaj Ji in the sky, or a greater spirit within if you insist. In some of the quotes he does appear to be speaking in the third person, and in others his language is ambiguous enough that he might be making such a third person reference. Mili provided us with the full text of his transition speech at the age of eight, and in that speech he is clearly talking in both senses. He is talking about his father (not a 'big spirit' in the sky, or within, but a deceased head of movement... somewhere). However, he clearly makes a transition so that he begins to refer to himself in the first person an the following passage: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come, the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? He could hardly have left out this first person reference because the people that had backed him in the succession would have demanded it. If he had attempted to water down the message the Indians would have left him in droves to follow either Mata Ji or BBJ. Later, he could have repudiated that statement under Mishler's urging, and according to Bob's account considered doing so, but decided to go another way. He never had the sort of upbringing as J. Krishnamurti that would have given him the moral capacity to pull that off. No one around him was really interested in him, or in his development as a person. Very few in the original inner circle that cared for him in his early youth were even sincerely interested in God. What interested them were bank accounts and golden shitters, etc. The succession controversy is a better explanation for his words than the interpretation of John Kluge, which explain only the third person references. Clearly, in the succession he would have to pay some homage to the past Guru and Gurus in order the legitimate his own claim. It need not be any more complicated than that. The succession controversy was over in the early 80s, or even before that, so he would not have been under the same pressure (apart from his own preferences to be revered) so it's understandable that he ceased to make the claims. However, and this is important, he never expressly repudiated them. To do so would have required that he stand on his own two feet. It would have acknowledged that he made a mistake, although like Krishnamurti he could have ascribed it to the influence of others. As long as we wasn't making the claim to divinity that is an acceptable out. With each passing year that became harder to do and he just deferred it. His capacity to make tough decisions is not exactly legendary. So, what we have here is nothing more nor less than a fraud who always tries to have his cake and eat it too. He apparently has an army of followers that are hell-bent on helping him destroy his life by enabling him. Isn't love wonderful? -Scott Great explanation, Scott. You guys can enjoy analyses like this and read the 'Guru Papers', and I am off to a program, soon. Each to his own. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 16:06:35 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: An FMNP (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Mili: RE: Great explanation, Scott. You guys can enjoy analyses like this and read the 'Guru Papers', and I am off to a program, soon. Each to his own. Have a good one. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 16:35:20 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Well put, Scott. See, Mili can't take it! (Re: Wanted: a Fair-Minded Premie ) Message: Mili and John: A number of the statements that Jim has quoted could be interpreted as Maharaji's reference to a 'big' Maharaj Ji in the sky, or a greater spirit within if you insist. In some of the quotes he does appear to be speaking in the third person, and in others his language is ambiguous enough that he might be making such a third person reference. Mili provided us with the full text of his transition speech at the age of eight, and in that speech he is clearly talking in both senses. He is talking about his father (not a 'big spirit' in the sky, or within, but a deceased head of movement... somewhere). However, he clearly makes a transition so that he begins to refer to himself in the first person an the following passage: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come, the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? He could hardly have left out this first person reference because the people that had backed him in the succession would have demanded it. If he had attempted to water down the message the Indians would have left him in droves to follow either Mata Ji or BBJ. Later, he could have repudiated that statement under Mishler's urging, and according to Bob's account considered doing so, but decided to go another way. He never had the sort of upbringing as J. Krishnamurti that would have given him the moral capacity to pull that off. No one around him was really interested in him, or in his development as a person. Very few in the original inner circle that cared for him in his early youth were even sincerely interested in God. What interested them were bank accounts and golden shitters, etc. The succession controversy is a better explanation for his words than the interpretation of John Kluge, which explain only the third person references. Clearly, in the succession he would have to pay some homage to the past Guru and Gurus in order the legitimate his own claim. It need not be any more complicated than that. The succession controversy was over in the early 80s, or even before that, so he would not have been under the same pressure (apart from his own preferences to be revered) so it's understandable that he ceased to make the claims. However, and this is important, he never expressly repudiated them. To do so would have required that he stand on his own two feet. It would have acknowledged that he made a mistake, although like Krishnamurti he could have ascribed it to the influence of others. As long as we wasn't making the claim to divinity that is an acceptable out. With each passing year that became harder to do and he just deferred it. His capacity to make tough decisions is not exactly legendary. So, what we have here is nothing more nor less than a fraud who always tries to have his cake and eat it too. He apparently has an army of followers that are hell-bent on helping him destroy his life by enabling him. Isn't love wonderful? -Scott Great explanation, Scott. You guys can enjoy analyses like this and read the 'Guru Papers', and I am off to a program, soon. Each to his own. Scott, I think you're quite right about all the above although I might quibble with you a bit about the inferences one could draw from Maharaji's vagueness and ambiguities. As they say, we'd have to parse them out. Mili, You're such a little joker, aren't you? Everytime you get stymied you scorn the whole discussion as if it was someone's fault other than your own that you're stuck. 'Mr. Sincerity'.... ha! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:43:06 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Help for the damn lame! Message: And they say premies are evasive! Here's some Feedback on the site that I received from an outspoken chap: First of all, he is not a cult leader! Second of all, you guys are damn lame. Do you know what a gift MJ is giving today. Only the thirsty will know the value of water. Just like that, only the thirsty of the heart will know the value of this knowledge. You guys obviously dont understand a thing he says. If you don't, just SHUT UP! I only wish Maharaji had explained it this clearly. Guess we'll have to take the site down now... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 17:08:26 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: Brian Subject: Beware of the Almighty! (Re: Help for the damn lame!) Message: I'm not the only one in RAGE! feeling better these days... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 11:27:11 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mr Ex Subject: Re: Beware of the Almighty! (Re: Help for the damn lame!) Message: I'm not the only one in RAGE! feeling better these days... Mr. Ex, I'm so glad to hear it! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 03:13:02 (EST)
Poster: Participant Email: To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji's Work Message: Participant MAHARAJI HAS ACCEPTED INVITATIONS TO SPEAK AT THE FOLLOWING EVENTS IN 1998.
On Wednesday, March 25, an event in Kuala Lumpur for people who have received the techniques of
Knowledge only.
On Thursday, March 26, an event in Kuala Lumpur for people preparing to receive Knowledge. People
who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Friday, March 27, a possible Knowledge Session in Kuala Lumpur.
On Monday, March 30, an event in Tokyo, Japan, for people preparing to receive Knowledge. People who
have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Tuesday, March 31, a possible Knowledge Session in Tokyo.
On Friday, April 10, Saturday, April 11 and Sunday, April 12, an event in New Delhi, India, for
people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and for those preparing to receive Knowledge.
Pre-registration is essential for this event.
On Friday, May 8, Saturday, May 9 and Sunday, May 10, an event in Miami Beach, Florida, USA, for
people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and for those preparing to receive Knowledge.
The first session will begin at 6:00 p.m. on Friday at the Miami Beach Convention Center, Hall D,
1901 Convention Center Drive, Miami Beach, Florida, USA. The final session will begin at 11:00 a.m.
on Sunday.
On Tuesday, May 12, an event in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, for people preparing to receive Knowledge.
People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited. The event will begin at 5:00
p.m. at the Palace, 1717 Le Corbusier Blvd., Laval, Quebec, Canada (Montreal).
On Wednesday, May 13, a possible Knowledge Session in Montreal.
On Saturday, May 16, an event in Guanajuato City, Mexico, for people who have received the techniques
of Knowledge only. The event Will begin at 11:00 a.m. at the State Auditorium in Guanajuato City
(near Leon), Mexico. There will be another event later on that day for people preparing to receive
Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited. That event will
begin at 5:00 p.m. also at the State Auditorium.
On Sunday, May 17, a possible Knowledge Session in Guanajuato City.
On Saturday, May 23, an event in Curacao, Netherlands Antilles, for people preparing
to receive Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also
invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Sunday, May 24, a possible Knowledge Session in Curacao with another event later on
that day for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge only.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Saturday, May 30, a possible event in Long Beach, California, USA, for people
preparing to receive Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge
are also invited. Details to be finalized. Seat reservations cannot be made until
details are finalized.
On Sunday, May 31, a possible Knowledge Session in Long Beach.
On Friday, June 12, Saturday, June 13 and Sunday, June 14, an event in Wembley, UK, for
people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and for those preparing to receive
Knowledge. The first session will begin at 5:30 p.m. on Friday at the Wembley Arena,
Empire Way, Wembley, Middlesex, UK. The final session will begin at 11:00 a.m. on
Sunday.
On Thursday, June 18, an event in Athens, Greece, for people preparing to receive
Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Friday, June 19, a possible Knowledge Session in Athens.
On Saturday, June 20, an event in Rome, Italy, for people preparing to receive
Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event is for European attendees only. Pre-registration is essential.
On Sunday, June 21, a possible Knowledge Session in Rome.
On Saturday, July 11, a possible event in Seattle, Washington USA, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge. Details
to be finalized. Seat reservations cannot be made until details are finalized.
On Tuesday, July 14, an event in Denver, Colorado, USA for people who have received the
techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge. The event will begin
at 5:00 p.m. at the Denver Performing Arts Complex - Boettcher Concert Hall, 950 - 13th
Street, Denver, Colorado, USA.
On Tuesday, July 21, a possible event in Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA, for people who
have received the techniques of Knowledge only. Details to be finalized. Seat
reservations cannot be made until details are finalized.
On Thursday, July 23, a possible event in Chicago, Illinios, USA, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge. Details
to be finalized. Seat reservations cannot be made until details are finalized.
On Saturday, July 25, a possible event in Miami, Florida, USA, for people preparing to
receive Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also
invited. Details to be finalized. Seat reservations cannot be made until details are
finalized.
On Sunday, July 26, a possible Knowledge Session in Miami.
On Sunday, August 16, a morning event in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, Africa, for people who
have received the techniques of Knowledge only. Also later that day an event for people
preparing to receive Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge
are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Monday, August 17, a possible Knowledge Session in Abidjan
On Wednesday, August 19, an event in Oporto, Portugal, for people preparing to receive
Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Thursday, August 20, a possible Knowledge Session in Oporto.
On Thursday, August 27, a possible event in Cotonou, Benin, Africa, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Friday, August 28, a morning event in Accra, Ghana, Africa, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge only. There Will be another event later on that
day for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to
receive Knowledge.
Due to limited venue capacity this event for local attendees only.
On Saturday, August 29, a possible Knowledge Session in Accra.
On Friday, September 4, Saturday, September 5 and Sunday, September 6, an event in
Barcelona, Spain, for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those
preparing to receive Knowledge. The first session Will begin at 6:00 p.m. on Friday at
the Sala Principal of the Palau Sant Jordi, Passeig Olimpic 5-7, Barcelona, Spain. The
final session will begin at 11:00 a.m. on Sunday.
On Friday, September 11, an event in Brighton, UK for people preparing to receive
Knowledge. People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited. The
event will begin at 5:00 p.m. at the Brighton Centre, Kings Road, Brighton, East Sussex,
UK.
Due to limited venue capacity this cut is for the European region. Pre-Registration is
recommended.
On Saturday, September 12, a possible Knowledge Session in Brighton.
On Friday, September 18, Saturday, September 19 and Sunday, September 20, a possible
event in Anaheim, California, USA, for people who have received the techniques of
Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge. Details to be finalized. Seat
reservations cannot be made until details are finalized.
On Tuesday, October 13, an event in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge.
Doe to limited venue capacity this event is for the South American region. Pre-Registration is essential.
On Wednesday, October 14, an event in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for people who have
received the techniques of Knowledge and those preparing to receive Knowledge. There
will be another event later on that day for people preparing to receive Knowledge.
People who have received the techniques of Knowledge are also invited.
Doe to limited venue capacity this event is for the South American region. Pre-Registration is essential.
On Thursday, October 15, a possible Knowledge Session in Buenos Aires.
In November, events in India and Nepal. Details to be announced.
On Wednesday, November 18, an event in Mauritius for people who have received the
techniques of Knowledge only.
Due to limited venue capacity this event is for local attendees only.
On Thursday, November 19, a morning event in Mauritius for people who have received the
techniques of Knowledge only. There will be another event later on that day for people
preparing to receive Knowledge only.
Due to limited venue capacity this event is for local attendees only.
On Friday, November 20, a possible Knowledge Session in Mauritius.
Please note, none of these events are introductory.
Information about seating reservations, hotel accommodations and translation will be
available at local video events.
It is recommended that you reserve a seat (and translation headphones if needed) in
advance for events you wish to attend.
Please keep in touch with the national information line for any changes to the schedule.
|
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 05:06:18 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Participant Subject: Re: Maharaji's Work Message: Well,I guess we were all waiting with bated breath to hear the announcement of those programs.Are you from Australia?Either that or you like hanging around on the internet at 3 in the morning.Anyway,maybe I know you.Enjoy seeing M and make sure you dont listen to those nagging doubts that arise from the deep recesses of your mind every now and then. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 10:11:58 (EST)
Poster: rawat the fool Email: bill burke To: Participant Subject: rawat the jerk (Re: Maharaji's Work) Message: I would like to remind evryone what a one man show rawat runs. He is a classic narcissist and the last guy in the inner circle with even a shred of independence and hints of manhood was Bill Wishard. Most likely he has crumpled or left. The likelyhood of anyone posting this info which you cannot get through any normal channel is nil. The chance of anyone close up responding to my questions about his rage like that are nil. The flip side of this kind of classic fool meglomania narcissist type is total confidence in thier delusion. They clutch on because the other side is thier great doubt, fear and anger and arrogance. rawat has all these characteristics. He has admitted them in the videos very clearly on occasion. The power of life is not behind his fraudulant, flatulant pretense to be god. And neither are the victims that have escaped his lies. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 15:35:07 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Participant Subject: Thanks: 98 Event Schedule (Re: Maharaji's Work) Message: I'll try to make Miami and Wembley. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 11:14:47 (EST)
Poster: So?And? Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Thanks: 98 Event Schedule (Re: Maharaji's Work) Message: I'll try to make Miami and Wembley. CD Why do you think that anyone cares? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 16:25:39 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: So?And? Subject: Re: Thanks: 98 Event Schedule (Re: Maharaji's Work) Message: I'll try to make Miami and Wembley. CD Why do you think that anyone cares? Because I know that there are all sorts of people. I have made quite a few 'virtual friends' from this site. AND I wanted to let it be known that the original post was appreciated and I made good use of it. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 02:33:48 (EST)
Poster: Ron Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Another Ex-Premie Checking In Message: Thanks for your responses. Yes, I think I was lucky to only be in for 2 years. Also, I was never in one of the 'hotbed' locations. When I say it was basically positive, I think it was because of the meditation and the premies. I never did get too much into the devotional aspect, although I did have two 'darshan dreams'. So maybe I was more into it than I thought. Yes it's true that I haven't really come to terms with the guru aspect of the situation. But now it seems long ago and something I don't want to drag up. Maybe that is why I reacted so strongly to finding this site. But when I realize that people are still going in, it is disturbing. This experience has made me suspicious of all religions. It makes me wonder about what happened in the early days of other religions. What were they up to? Why did they want to be prophets or gurus? But religions have still done a lot of good, teaching prayer, meditation, morality, and social justice. I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, but any kind of 'Lord of the Universe' type claims immediately set off alarm bells, and most religions are based on such claims. Ah, well. Ron Ron Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 23:06:28 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Will Chris ever be an FMP? Message: [A repost of 'Chris peeks over the edge' below, which, to my dismay, was dying below the fold] Chris, I don't think it's fair for you to dismiss the 'endless debate' here which, you say, 'isn't going much of anywhere.' Given your own propensity to sit in the weeds shooting smiley faces instead of actually engaging in discussion, I don't think you've any right to fault the quality of any dialogue that happens here. Know what I mean? -g Jim, Yes, some of the debates here are the result of honest serious efforts on the part of the participants. As far as where the debates will lead, that is a big question. Many of the same issues have been discussed since at least the time of Socrates. I have no problem with the debate. It seems to be the human condition to try to figure it all out. That does not mean that we must wait for or depend on the 'answers' to experience the beauty of this life. There is a very positive side to what M has accomplished that is often hidden by a cloud on this site. There have been sunny and rainy days and I assume that will continue. CD If you have 'no problem' with 'the debate' why don't you participate in it? Why, instead, do you say it 'isn't going much of anywhere'? Let's face it, Chris, you don't discuss Maharaji because you can't. A long, long time ago, you said that Maharaji's message hasn't changed since you first met him in the early 70s. I asked you then, once, twice, maybe a dozen times, how you could say that in light of various Maharaji 'Lord' quotes. Remember? It was a fair question, wasn't it? Clear, straight-forward. I mean, either the guy's message hasn't changed or it has, right? His message used to be: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? But, as far as I recall, you didn't answer me. You just stuck to your guns, that his message hasn't changed and that's that. Chris, no wonder you have so little faith in 'the debate.' You never approached the enterprise properly. Here's what a fair-minded premie might have done in your shoes. FMP: Maharaji's message is the same now as then. Ex-premie: Well, he used to claim he was God. Does he now? FMP: Come one, he never claimed he was God. X: Well, right here he said it (shows quotes). See? FMP: Hmmmm, let me think a bit. Okay, I guess I have to admit, he's not saying that now. X: And how about this (show quote where Maharaji claims to be the 'saviour of humanity' and implores his devotees to 'shout it in the streets')? FMP: Yeah, well I guess he isn't saying that much either these days. X: So, it really isn't accurate to say his message hasn't changed then, is it? FMP: No, I guess not. I'd have to say that parts of his message have changed. I still say other parts haven't. X: No argument there. But for now I'm interested in the changed parts. Any idea why Maharaji might have said these things? FMP: Yeah, I've got some ideas. To be honest, I don't really know for sure. You'd have to ask him, if you really want to know. X: Well, the problem is getting him to talk about this stuff. Tell me, do you think he should? FMP: Well, I can kind of understand your wanting him to. X: Well, that's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking if you think he should answer people who wnat some explanation for how he can go from 'I'm the Lord, stop everything' to where he is now. FMP: You're asking ME to say what Maharaji should do? X: Yeah, I'm just asking your opinion. What's wrong with that? FMP: Well, I'm certainly no one to tell Maharaji what to do. X: I'm not saying he'd listen. I'm just asking if you think he should talk about these things. After all, you know a lot of people really went out on a limb for him. FMP: Look, I don't think I should be saying what Maharaji should or shouldn't do. X: Oh, really? And why's that? FMP: Well, I don't know. It's not for me to judge the Perfect Master. X: Who told you that? FMP: The Perfect Master, of course. Who else am I going to listen to? X: So you let Maharaji take the palce fo your own conscience? FMP: No, that sounds ridiculous. I never said that. X: Well, you're not allowing yourself to make this one little value judgment here. That seems like you're afraid to let your mind go somewhere, quite frankly. FMP: Look, you shouldn't be doing this. X: Doing what? FMP: Putting me on the spot about Maharaji. X: Well, isn't that a bit hypocritical? Here, you're telling me what I should do, but you won't tell Maharaji what he should do. FMP: You know, normally, a premie like me would just tell you to 'fuck off' or something at this point. But, since you've assigned me the service of being a Fair-Minded Premie and asked me to be an example to Chris, I'm going to have to try a different approach. Here's what I'm prepared to say. Yes, I'm being hypocritical. I can see that. I can also see that, wuite frankly, I don't feel comfortable talking about Maharaji freely. Let me put it this way, I understand people like Chris, who avoid really talking about him, or Mili, who just snarls and acts dumb when cornered. We premies are carrying a big load. We've been instructed (trained?) to not criticize Maharaji. That necessarily means 'no critical thinking.' I'll tell you something else, any one of us who claims to be up for the task of honest, unimpaired critical thinking about Maharaji is either fooling himself, fooling you or packing his bags without even knowing it. You simply can't have it both ways. You can't be open-minded and flexible and uncritical of Maharaji. Me? I'm confused, if you really have to know. Thanks for nothing! See, Chris, that's what a discussion looks like. If you ever feel like having one, you know the place. - g Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 01:48:46 (EST)
Poster: Mike Email: To: Webmaster Subject: Radosoami Fellowship (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: That dude with the long beard was not Shri Maharaji's Master. Your history's all screwy. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 06:13:42 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Mike Subject: Re: Radosoami Fellowship (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: That dude with the long beard was not Shri Maharaji's Master. Your history's all screwy. We were always told by Mahatmas that Maharaji's fathers guru was Sarupanand (from Dera?).Professor David Lane (who is somewhat of an authority on Radhasoami history) confirms this. However he adds that Maharaji's father was also apparently initiated by Sawan Singh (a well known Radhasoami SatGuru-the dude with the long beard). He does not say whether this was before or after his initiation by Sarupanand. Make of it what you will. I agree that the history section on this site refers to Swarupanand (not Sarupanand who was a distinctly diferent man). Brian (the webmaster) has not had time to fix this yet I gather. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:25:20 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mike Subject: Your priorities are all screwy (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: That dude with the long beard was not Shri Maharaji's Master. Your history's all screwy. The pivital point of this site, and indeed the key reason any ex-premie might have for being a bit miffed with the Ex-Lord or his dead dad, is now officially corrected. Now back to the trivial parts of webmastering... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 17:40:16 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com To: Jim Subject: FMP? no such thing, IMHO (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Jim, it's all a question of faith, right? I'm sure you agree that any religious sentiment is based primarily on faith - and not on being able to prove something scientifically or logically. So, I suspect that premies have chosen to believe in M, no matter what. And the 'no matter what' includes whether he makes sense or not, whether he contradicts himself or not, whether he is nice, intelligent sounding, tells funny jokes, is entertaining, physically attractive, the right body weight, whatever, none of that matters, because the premies have decided to have faith in their Master. I remember hearing this very line of reasoning for years: 'I will believe in M no matter what, come hell or high water, I will never leave him.' For some reason, I particularly remember hearing a premie named Teddy Tannenbaum giving satsang in my ashram on that very theme. Vowing over and over that he would never leave him. He didn't care if everyone else in the world left him, he didn't care if M ignored him for the rest of his life, he would never ever leave him. This was probably in 1980, at the the height of the HEAVY devotion type satsang. When M would say things like..we have it easy these days, because he is not going to ask us to cut off our arms for him. In the past that's what was asked of devotees, now, in his current manifestation he will not ask any of us to do that kind of thing. So there was this whole feeling, I'm sure you remember it well, of blind obedience. Just obey the Master, no matter what. So, any premies who have stayed with him I bet have this mind set: the devotee cannot question the Master, period! Which is fine with me, if they want to devote their entire beings to their guru. The mystery to me is why they are wasting their time trying to communicate with us. What do any of them care about the little noises we make? They certainly should understand that this blind obedience to a master is not something that most of us spiritual weaklings can stomach. They also must understand what a radical decision they have made: blind obedience to their guru! Very few people in the world are going to be interested in accepting such a command. Again, it's no problem for me, let the premies do their thing. It spooks me to think of it, but that's what religious freedom is all about, right? At the same time, though, how can any premie not understand the need for a web site such as ours? We are the ones who lost faith, right? We all have our reasons which to us make perfect sense, but to the premies who choose to have faith, all of our reasons mean only one thing - we have committed the cardinal sin, we have questioned the master. That's where all the problems come from, and it is simply not allowed. So, Jim, someone as sharp as you probably already knows this but you will never meet a 'fair minded premie'. Not if that means they have to question their master. I am so glad I shook myself out of that decision to never question the master. Life really is so much simpler without carrying around that ball and chain. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 18:35:28 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: FMP? no such thing, IMHO (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Jim, it's all a question of faith, right? I'm sure you agree that any religious sentiment is based primarily on faith - and not on being able to prove something scientifically or logically. Not being able to prove something scientifically or logically. Just one of those pesky paradoxes. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 10:12:48 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: FMP? no such thing, IMHO (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: John: Re: I'm sure you agree that any religious sentiment is based primarily on faith - and not on being able to prove something scientifically or logically. Well, strictly speaking the definition of faith is not 'the disposition to believe, come hell or high water.' Also, it is not necessarily the scientific project to be able to 'verify' everything that is true, and that anything that can't be verified is necessarily false. Even the Logical Positivists of the Vienna Circle gave up on that one. The standard of 'verifiability' has been abandoned, and for good reason. There are simply a lot of things out there that may be true, but can't be proven. So the standard has become 'falsifiability,' instead. If a statement can't be falsified it is irrelevant to the human condition. We can therefore accept statements that can't be proven, as long as they are subject to eventual falsification. That is, we can accept them conditionally. The fundamental article of faith of Christianity is that the scriptures are the record of revealed truth, and are therefore infallible. This places the Christian in something of a bind when it comes to certain biblical passages. The classic one concerns the 'darkness at noon' controversy that was (I think) first raised by the Gibbon in the 'Decline and Fall or the Roman Empire.' In one of the Gospel accounts of the crucifixion a darkness was said to have covered the earth at the time when Jesus gave up the ghost. Clearly this did not actually happen because no such event has ever been reported by any of the historians or astronomical observers of the day. Josephus, the Roman/Jewish historian makes no mention of even a local darkness. So if the even happened it was probably something that was extremely localized to Golgotha. That sort of takes the sting out of the passage, though. There are other examples of inconsistencies in the bible, for instance in some of the lineages mentioned in the Old Testament. The term 'Lucifer' that is often thought to be a term for the devil is actually a Chaldean word that means 'morning star,' and is used in only one place in the old testament to refer to a real life king, and not to a spiritual being. Of course, 'morning star' is also the translation of the Greek term for Christ. There are other such inconsistencies. With all of these inconsistencies in the text I have never found Christians to shrink from a discussion. They have explanations for all of them, that just might not be very convincing to you and I. By an large they have had to retreat from the notion that the KJ version is infallible. There must be translation errors, so the search is on to find a 'definitive' version. This is actually quite plausible, but it leaves open the question of which version to believe, and you can still make your own conclusions about whether the account as a whole hangs together. The two most powerful arguments are, for me, the life of Paul and the lives and deaths of the Apostles in general, especially their deaths. Those testimonies are at least convincing even if they don't entirely settle the question for a skeptic. There is room for faith. So far I could not say the same of GMJ, DLM, or Elan Vital. They don't carry the same weight of testimony nor do they engender the same standard of faith... at least, not yet. Ultimately a premie does have to rely an blind non-rational faith, and I mean non-rational not merely in terms of the standards of formal logic, but also in terms of the more modern and broader rational standards of 'transparency' of intent, and so forth. I think the Christian testimony meets those latter standards to a large extent, although I still remain somewhat skeptical. I think one might views Jim's project as an attempt to inject a higher standard of faith, rather than merely to discredit. Even if that's not the case premies could take up the challenge in that light. The issue is that they don't seem to be doing that. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 11:20:47 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Is it time for an Ecumenical Council? (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Scott, you're right, of course, but the main point I am trying to make is this: 1.To follow the guru, a devotee cannot question the guru. 2. Jim is asking devotees to question the guru. Since devotees will not allow themselves to question the statements that the guru has made over the past 3 decades, then the discussions go nowhere. A question is answered with another question, etc. The programming a premie receives is extremely powerful and subtle. An excellent example of this is the Bob Mishler interview. When I first came on this web site, less than six months ago I read the Bob Mishler interview through a premies' eyes and brain. Even though I had left in 1982, I still carried with me the doubts about Mishler that had been programmed into me. Which were that: Mishler's opinions and thoughts were of zero value. Why? Because he had left the guru...He had started listening to his mind...He was obviously simply 'in his mind'. End of discussion. I remember when Mishler left. One day he was a highly respected leader of the organization, the next he was scum. I remember hearing about 'The radio interview'. None of us premies were interested in it because we all knew for a fact it had to be: 'Pure Mind'. and hence of 'Zero Value' because Mishler had crossed over to the other side. He was 'in his mind'. So anyway, I read the Mishler interview from that perspective, mainly that Mishler could not be trusted. Then after participating in this forum for about a month I read the interview again and suddenly it all seemed much more valid. Wouldn't a fair minded person read things with an open mind? Yes, of course. Are premies able to read criticism of the guru with open minds? Of course not! Because to do that would be to 'open the mind to confusion'. Which is guru speak for: 'thinking'. In the guru's world one is not allowed to think about the guru world. If this were to actually survive as a religion all of these inconsistencies, some of which Jim points out, would have to be hammered out, the way the Catholic Church took charge of Christianity and hammered out its inconsistencies. Until they do come up with explanations for all the wierd past behavior then this movement aint goin' nowhere. Maybe they could hold an ecumenical council to decide all this stuff. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 12:21:14 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Is it time for an Ecumenical Council? (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: John: RE: If this were to actually survive as a religion all of these inconsistencies, some of which Jim points out, would have to be hammered out, the way the Catholic Church took charge of Christianity and hammered out its inconsistencies. Until they do come up with explanations for all the wierd past behavior then this movement aint goin' nowhere. Maybe they could hold an ecumenical council to decide all this stuff. Doubt that will happen. I think your assessment of premiedom is correct, that it must be based on blind faith, and not informed or non-defensive faith. It is not just a matter of logical inconsistencies, but of rational inconsistencies in the larger sense. In other words, even if you could explain some of GMJ's more outlandish statements there is still the matter of his behavior. This lends credibility to the skeptical interpretation of things. Hard to get around that, even if you convened an ecumenical council. There is no 'Paul' or 'Peter' to back things up. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 14:08:07 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Scott T. Subject: How I see it, Scott and John (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Scott and John, Your posts are, as usual, much appreciated. I just like to get the premies to a point where they concede that, if they didn't know -- or admit -- their position earlier, they do now. They now realize that they have a part of their life that they, for some reason, will not discuss fairly. I do think that comes as a bit of a revealtion to some. Maybe not all, maybe only a few, but I do think they're out there. There was this one guy who used to post over on the newsgroup back when we were hashing things out on alt.support.ex-cult . Lance Tane. He started, like mayn do, by saying he could easily and unabashedly discuss Maharaji. By the end, not only had he admitted that he couldn't but he'd admitted that he couldn't. I have to wonder if that will affect his cult membership somewhere along the line. I also think that any fence-sitters observing our exchanges got a clear picture of the cost that premieship carries in terms of mental liberty and self-deceit. Plus, it was fun. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 14:58:34 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: How I see it, Scott and John (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Scott and John, Your posts are, as usual, much appreciated. I just like to get the premies to a point where they concede that, if they didn't know -- or admit -- their position earlier, they do now. They now realize that they have a part of their life that they, for some reason, will not discuss fairly. I do think that comes as a bit of a revealtion to some. Maybe not all, maybe only a few, but I do think they're out there. There was this one guy who used to post over on the newsgroup back when we were hashing things out on alt.support.ex-cult . Lance Tane. He started, like mayn do, by saying he could easily and unabashedly discuss Maharaji. By the end, not only had he admitted that he couldn't but he'd admitted that he couldn't. I have to wonder if that will affect his cult membership somewhere along the line. I also think that any fence-sitters observing our exchanges got a clear picture of the cost that premieship carries in terms of mental liberty and self-deceit. Plus, it was fun. Jim, by the way, I knew Lance Tane in Chicago, by the way, not well, I knew his wife better. But that was 20 years ago. Anyway, I agree with you. I think getting someone to admit they can't discuss Maharaji easily and directly does often create a 'crack' in the programming. It might not manifest right away, but the 'crack' is unlikely to get mended. This is because, like you said, many premies are deluded into thinking they are following Maharaji on a rational basis, that somehow the cult and the programming, which might exist in some, doesn't exist in them. It's like drug or alcohol addiction. Most addicts don't admit that they are addicts. Some people are addicts, but not them, because they don't drink in the morning or something like that. There's an excuse, or some reason that makes them an exception. Same way with cult programming. A premie says: 'there are cults, but this is not one of them, and even if it is for some people, it isn't for me, because I am an intelligent, objective person who has had all my questions answered and this is something I know for sure. And I can discuss it fairly with anyone.' When they realize they can't, I think it does make people question it. That's why, I think, premies leave the forum at that point. It just becomes too confronting and starts hitting too close to core beliefs. Take that obnoxious jerk 'A Premie' for example. He tried to discuss Maharaji 'honestly' at first, even admitting that that it was all about 'devotion' which the other premies would not admit. But then, he got backed into a corner. He couldn't say how he knew that all ex-premies lacked 'understanding' and he needed to distinguish the experience of ex-premies with his own, otherwise his own beliefs were called into question. Second, I admitted to him that there was the possibility that I might be wrong in my view of Maharaji, but he was ENTIRELY unable to even admit the possibility of error on his part. He couldn't even entertain the possibility that he was following a fraud. I asked him given this, which of us, him or me, was exhibiting more absolutist, closed, cult-like thinking, HE, who could not even admit the possibility of error, or ME, who would admit it. At that point, A Premie disappeared. I hope he is thinking about all of that as we speak. As we all know, as John said, for a premie, thinking about the inconsistencies and contradictions with Maharaji is fatal to a premie's belief system. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 16:25:41 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: CD Subject: Re: FMP? no such thing, IMHO (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: CD: Apparently you don't get it yet. If a paradox exists it does not help you. Granted, it doesn't make things all that easy for us, but it brings you to an absolute impasse. Suggest you read Habermas' response to Gadamer's 'Truth and Method.' Habermas' machine is admittedly not hitting on all cylinders, but Gadamer's machine ain't moving at all (except in some event-horizon fantasy world). -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 17:31:34 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: JW Subject: Poor guys ..... (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: I just spent the evening with a premie friend, having that kind of argument. She was almost weeping by the end of the meal, but I'm afraid of the consequences for her. I'm just wondering what kind of reaction some people might have if they can't face what they are becoming conscious of. I don't know .... I've been through this, it's very painful. She knows I'm still her friend, we keep in touch, seeing me doing well might be helpful for her. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 19:33:59 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Scott T. Subject: Re: FMP? no such thing, IMHO (Re: Will Chris ever be an FMP?) Message: Scott, Not all Christian churches accept the scriptures as infallible. Many are aware that they were written by humans and contain contradictions and even bad information. There are schools of textual and historical criticism which examine the texts for historical and cultural context. The Christians who hold the texts to be infallible are of the fundamentalist bent, but most mainline churches have moved past such things. There are groups who hold the King James Version to be THE only true bible, but that is simply a ridiculous stance and not worthy of discussion. Not all Christians are bible thumpers or spending their time trying to make first and second century imagery (in the case of the Christian scriptures) make sense to twentieth century people. And John, only the emperor can call an Ecumenical Council :-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:08:32 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Everyone Subject: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: I haven't visited this site for a week or so and some of the items posted during this time I found interesting - eg Davids 'I still love M' and some of the premie postings.I had similar feelings to David for a while,so I decided to go and see M. I went to Amaroo in 91 and Sydney in 95,just to see what I felt after not being involved for a few years.At Amaroo I felt very little-it all seemed harmless,but quite meaningless too.In Sydney I felt anger and a sense of dread, like revisiting a bad memory.A premie came up to me outside the auditorium and said to me something along the lines of,'Its good to see you back-of course there's really nowhere else to go.'She looked wasted and old.She had been involved with M since 73,(as I had) and what had she gained from it? Ok, so I know I'm making value judgements here but it seemed to me that she'd lost her self,her youth,and any real capacity for growth.Its only when you've moved away from M that you can really see how weird the whole scene is. Excuse the length of this, but its helping me hone my typing skills.The tired old phrase that 'premies are to blame for the problems of the past,not M'came up again in a couple of postings.M made blanket statements that were somehow meant to apply to everyone-individuals rarely mattered.Ms deliberate ploy of not cultivating personal connections with his premies,whilst saying that we all had a deeply personal connection with him,meant that to a certain extent we were directionless.We had lost the capacity to think clearly enough to make our own decisions-and the decisions M made for us on mass were simplistic and one dimensional.An ex-premie friend of mine is now following another Indian guru.She says at least he comes to visit her,talks to her,makes personal contact and answers her questions.She has a point there. There are decisions I made,under Ms influence,that I regret.They not only affected my life but others too.I'd be happy to talk about them at another time. The final point I wanted to make was about money.A few premies on this site have claimed they never paid a cent to M.Thats gotta be bullshit.We had regular collections plus AMP in the 'old' days.Before I moved into the ashram in 75 I was even hauled aside one day and lectured for being behind with my AMP payments.Later on I became one of those premies who had to phone around asking premies to send money to M-I did this both in Australia and when I lived in the U.S.We got satasnged by initiators at festivals about the importance of giving money ,especially the need for money-rather than gifts- in darshan lines.I received mailings all through the 80s about money and planes etc-even recently I have received mailings and calls re money.If M is so keen to spread K then why the excessive lifestyle-it puts people off-and it really is very excessive.One time in the early 80s I was doing security on the plane at the airport.A customs agent who had been through the plane asked why the guru needed a gold toilet. One may well ask. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:30:54 (EST)
Poster: new Email: bill52@rocketmail.com To: chr Subject: day (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: would you please email me at bill52@rocketmail.com if you are shy about return email I can get you a free internet email address or tell you how to get one right now. go to rocketmail.com and get a email address and then i can email you there and it isn't coming to your computer. thank you, bill Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:01:23 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: chr Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Don't know any current premies to spend time around, but I do interact with many of them here. I spoke on the phone a while back to one who lives in Florida and was struck by the lack of content and over-abundance of superlatives in her speach. I'd ask something specific and she would lapse into vagueness. Glowing vagueness, containing words like fantastic, amazing, etc. Yet no content to indicate that there was ever any reflection happening inside. She had no expressable feelings whatsoever about her having been booted onto the street when the ashrams closed. Seems to me if you ask someone something about how they spent the last 25 years that they would have a perspective on it that didn't have to be screened through 'what am I supposed to say'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:05:49 (EST)
Poster: warm new england Email: *.* To: new Subject: night (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: Chr, did you notice that participant said 'I am a novice at this computer thing' and then in the same post inputted a 15 page list of videos in alphabetical order listing not only the dates but also the running time of the videos. How does a novice computer person accomplish that? 15 pages of mundane listings and no errors. WHO has such an alphabetized list? Who has the staff to list all that anyway? And to move it to the forum post sheet is not a novice skill. More falsehood from the kingdom of heaven on earth crowd. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:12:45 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Don't know any current premies to spend time around, but I do interact with many of them here. I spoke on the phone a while back to one who lives in Florida and was struck by the lack of content and over-abundance of superlatives in her speach. I'd ask something specific and she would lapse into vagueness. Glowing vagueness, containing words like fantastic, amazing, etc. Yet no content to indicate that there was ever any reflection happening inside. She had no expressable feelings whatsoever about her having been booted onto the street when the ashrams closed. Seems to me if you ask someone something about how they spent the last 25 years that they would have a perspective on it that didn't have to be screened through 'what am I supposed to say'. dear Brian The only interaction I have with current premies has been at the programs I mentioned.An old friend who came to visit me a few years after I received K, said that she couldn't find me anymore-she only could see this wall of the guru in front of me.We became experts in the art of denial. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:15:48 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: warm new england Subject: Re: night (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: A record breakingly warm day in PA as well, over 80 degrees on March 28th!!!!! Hope it lasts a few days! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:32:59 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Bill Subject: Waiting on the word of the master (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: Hey Bill, I sent you my email address and have been sitting here by my computer for the last four days with my eyes closed and trying to remember holy name so that I would be ready to receive my divine service opportunity. Alas, nothing has happened. Can I go to bed now? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 22:16:30 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: To: chr Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: A customs agent who had been through the plane asked why the guru needed a gold toilet. One may well ask. Because the Lord's wee-wees stand out like a shaft of gold when all around is darkness. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 22:34:00 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: night (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: Robyn, et al: I took my annual bike ride down to the 'Inner Tidal Basin' at the Jefferson Memorial to walk under the cherry blossoms. There's is usually a slight chill in the air at this time, and occasionally it's actually cold (about 40 year-before-last). The crowds are heavy but manageable. The day was so warm that nearly everyone on the eastern seaboard was there. Halfway around I gave up and took the Arlington Memorial Bridge back over the Potomac. It seemed almost sacrilegious to view the cherry blossoms in this kind of heat. Very weird, but they were beautiful as usual. Nice ride too, overall. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 00:25:47 (EST)
Poster: hero or Email: *.* To: David Subject: fool (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: well, we are trying to buy mr. rawat a new car for his 40th birthday and perhaps the great Larkin will do the birthday card and you could help us choose what car. someone is already doing my idea so maybe we could be of some use to them at a later point. you did have a brief devotee flashback recently, I have done that before. Don't forget that he presents himself as god incarnate, think of me when you die, kiss my feet, lord of the age and the master of this life. Also, he falls under the catagory of fool as defined in the bible. But here is one. Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs; rather than a fool in his folly. Also one from augustine; there is a love by which we love what should not be loved. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 03:14:10 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Bill and the rest Subject: Seriously now (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: The devotion flashbacks I get, probably are an illusion. But they seem real at the time. For me Maharaji never was a Guru. He was God, nothing less. Many years of subconsciously accepting that God was Maharaji does leave its mark. It was a major trauma for me when I realised that I was wrong. A major, major freak-out. I felt an absolute loathing for Maharaji and God, too. To have let me live under such a delusion and even have me telling others. One thing that's probably true for myself and many premies and ex-premies is that it is almost impossible to comprehend a person who tries to give the illusion that he is God, when he is not and knows he isn't. Now that is a clear case of the light not comprehending the darkness, is it not. I've reversed it, you see what I mean? That's why Maharaji has had such a hold over people. The followers who are light cannot comprehend a mind which pretends he is God. The light cannot see darkness so the light thinks, 'Oh well, he must be God'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 03:26:21 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: warm new england Subject: Re: night (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I didn't get past the first page.Even at my peak of devotional ardour I think I would have OD on that many videos.Unfortunately lying seems to be inherant in being a premie-I told some whoppers to employers when going to festivals. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 04:52:30 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Nigel Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: A customs agent who had been through the plane asked why the guru needed a gold toilet. One may well ask. Because the Lord's wee-wees stand out like a shaft of gold when all around is darkness. OK!So thats it.I finally understand. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 05:19:02 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: brian Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Don't know any current premies to spend time around, but I do interact with many of them here. I spoke on the phone a while back to one who lives in Florida and was struck by the lack of content and over-abundance of superlatives in her speach. I'd ask something specific and she would lapse into vagueness. Glowing vagueness, containing words like fantastic, amazing, etc. Yet no content to indicate that there was ever any reflection happening inside. She had no expressable feelings whatsoever about her having been booted onto the street when the ashrams closed. Seems to me if you ask someone something about how they spent the last 25 years that they would have a perspective on it that didn't have to be screened through 'what am I supposed to say'. dear Brian The only interaction I have with current premies has been at the programs I mentioned.An old friend who came to visit me a few years after I received K, said that she couldn't find me anymore-she only could see this wall of the guru in front of me.We became experts in the art of denial. Sorry, on rereading my response,it sounds a bit muddled.What I meant to say was I agree with you and that as premies we frequently bullshitted ourselves and others. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 07:43:47 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: hero or Subject: Re: fool (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: Hear or roar: Hear or Roar: Re: well, we are trying to buy mr. rawat a new car for his 40th birthday and perhaps the great Larkin will do the birthday card and you could help us choose what car. He ought to be compelled to drive around in that Mini-Cooper he sawed in half back in the 70s. I wonder how the premie felt who gave him that car? He takes it out in the back yard and with a chain saw renders it into to pieces. What a clever guy. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 07:49:42 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: fool--to to two (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I meant 'two' pieces, not 'to pieces,' but what the heck... I just got up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 10:46:26 (EST)
Poster: Very Email: *.* bb To: David Subject: Seriously now (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: David you hit on something there. You are right. And he played it up to the extreme. Only because of the trauma you mentioned that humans have when they leave this kind of evil has rawat escaped any organised response by the victims. And the internet is crucial to our coming together to do what we do and fight him. Life itself has it's penalties on him already but our part is to do what we feel is right. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:08:41 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: chr Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: Sorry, on rereading my response,it sounds a bit muddled. What I meant to say was I agree with you and that as premies we frequently bullshitted ourselves and others. I got your meaning out of it, but then perhaps it mirrored my muddled thinking :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:24:35 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Everyone Subject: A New Car for Maharaji! (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I think it's a great idea that we all get together and get Maharaji a new car for his birthday! Something he really needs! Except I think it should be a teensy, tiny model one, one of those ones you wind the wheels up on by dragging them on the floor and watch it go, accompanied a clever birthday poem from Larkin and an invitation to join our site. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:26:50 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: To: Joy Subject: Re: A New Car for Maharaji! (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I think it's a great idea that we all get together and get Maharaji a new car for his birthday! Something he really needs! Except I think it should be a teensy, tiny model one, one of those ones you wind the wheels up on by dragging them on the floor and watch it go, accompanied a clever birthday poem from Larkin and an invitation to join our site. Or maybe a model airplane instead. He seems to like to collect airplanes more these days. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 12:37:06 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Joy Subject: Re: A New Car for Maharaji! (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I think it's a great idea that we all get together and get Maharaji a new car for his birthday! Something he really needs! Except I think it should be a teensy, tiny model one, one of those ones you wind the wheels up on by dragging them on the floor and watch it go, accompanied a clever birthday poem from Larkin and an invitation to join our site. Or maybe a model airplane instead. He seems to like to collect airplanes more these days. Joy, et al: Great idea. Not anything more than $5 though. How about a toy mini-Cooper artfully sliced in half? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 15:35:59 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Everyone Subject: A New Car for Me! (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: The hell with a new car for Maharaji! Please take up a donation and buy ME a new car! I want something foreign and fast, sleek and sexy. A real car, mind you. No models. Grace to you all, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 17:04:23 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Nigel Subject: Re: re I still love Maharaji etc Message: A customs agent who had been through the plane asked why the guru needed a gold toilet. One may well ask. Because the Lord's wee-wees stand out like a shaft of gold when all around is darkness. Was the toilet really gold? I know all the other plumbing fixtues in the plane were, and they were even gold in his motorhome, and I assume in the residences as well. I think I mentioned one time that in 1980 they took the community coordinators from U.S. and Canada on a tour of the plane right after his birthday party in December, 1980. I had anticipated it would be nice, because I actually worked on the plane project (legal department) in 1979 and so I knew a lot about it. But the opulence of that thing was just amazing and really almost shocked me. It was gold, leather, endless electonics and I recall that the shower fixtures were gold, and it had this big, thick glass door, plus it had a computerized feature that by pushing a button the shower would automatically provide water the exact temperature most pleasing to the Lord's golden, if somewhat flabby, body. There was also a lot of etched glass, including a big room divider I think with that swan motiff, that was also on the tail of the plane etched in. Lots of hand-inlaid wood, and big, thick, carpeting. I don't know how much was raised from the premies for that plane, but I would estimate at least a good $3,000,000, much of it raised on an emergency basis, in cash, illegally under IRS rules. And much of it raised deceptively, by telling people it was for a 'world tour' instead of telling the truth that it was for a plane. I think it's really funny that a customs agent would mention the gold toilet. Maharaji seemed to have endless greed. Nothing was ever quite good enough. I recall one time he wanted premies to weave the fabrics used on the plane. I think that was abandoned as impractical, even for him. A lot of premies, who could not afford it, maxed out credit cards and spent their rent money to sacrifice for the Lord for him to get that plane. Then, according to what I have heard, Maharaji was tired of the plane before it was even finished and was already angling to get a newer, better, more luxurious plane. I really do think that in many ways, Maharaji has had the mentality of a child. And I don't mean childLIKE, I mean childISH. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 18:33:42 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: He can have my damn Citroen (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I'll happily give him my Citroen XM since it's more trouble that it's worth. The head gasket is about to go and everything leaks and it costs a fortune to run. He can even cut in in half if he wants to. Probably work better that way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 04:25:41 (EST)
Poster: silver Email: *.* To: JW Subject: winged steed (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: Over 5,000 hours were spent polishing the wings because he wanted a mirror finish. With slave labor that came to about 0$. Food expenses. The vast amount of wood trim work was all ebony wood and was sanded to 600 grit and then sprayed with clear coat and then wet sanded to 1200 grit and then buffed until it was like glass. LOT'S of hours on that. Then, first trip out was to Montreal and it was so cold that when they turned the heat back on to leave the wood separated from the clear coat and 'blued'. rawat went absolutely bullshits on the guy who was in charge. A whole army of really good guys left after the 707 project because of thier up close contact with rawat showed them that he was something other than what his large program performances implied. Wish I hadn't been so much of an apologist and excusemaker for him. But again, that conclusion by david Julian covers the situation. The one where he talks about how the innocent can't imagine a fraud godhead. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 19:50:23 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: David Subject: Re: He can have my damn Citroen (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I'll happily give him my Citroen XM since it's more trouble that it's worth. The head gasket is about to go and everything leaks and it costs a fortune to run. He can even cut in in half if he wants to. Probably work better that way. David: Ah yes, the French make lovely cars don't they? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 09:45:02 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: David Subject: Citroen shock (Re: re I still love Maharaji etc) Message: I'll happily give him my Citroen XM since it's more trouble that it's worth. The head gasket is about to go and everything leaks and it costs a fortune to run. He can even cut in in half if he wants to. Probably work better that way. David: As I recall (Correct me if I'm wrong.) the shock absorbers on Citroen's are packed with marshmallows. This makes them highly attractive to various small mammals and reptiles, not to mention bugs. Eventually the marshmallow is either consumed or congeals, making for a rough ride. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:12:57 (EST)
Poster: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Happy Birthday!!! Message: (with apologies to everybody) For a year it's been here this peculiar Forum that's home to a very cantankerous quorum: Mr Ex who's still vexed that it took him so long to cast off the past is now righting the wrongs. There's Mili who's silly and sometimes quite batty, Jim must be slim (or he wouldn't say 'Fatty'), and Student's imprudent to get into fights with Jim Heller that fellah sure knows how to bite Sir Dave ain't no slave He's our knight of the realm who did a most noteworthy stint at the helm AOA-Ji ain't lazy and posts by the ream while Chris lives in bliss (or a very sad dream...) Scott is the swot full of erudite knowledge Nigel writes essays and thinks he's at college JW may trouble you if you're a devotee like Dan, Barbara-Ann, or dopey Ms OP Katie is matey and anxious to please us Gumby wants humbly to talk about Jesus Aesop writes slop, and gets very uncivil Some berk called 'A Premie' posts self-righteous drivel Les was vile spouted bile got skewered, then went while Seymour couldn't be more the courteous gent. Will Boik Oi loik coz he's laid-back and mellow John C & John K seem like excellent fellows There's Vic and there's Mick and there's Larkin (crap rhymer) and Rick who's quite slick with the razor one-liner Anon and Ex-mug can't be seeking renown while Joy and Selina are new kids in town as are Robyn and Ron (hey there, welcome aboard and smile or get angry - you'll never get bored) While Brian's still tryin' to nurture 'this baby' will it or won't it keep running? - well, maybe... XXX love larkin Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:20:13 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: You're truly insane. The poem was funny, though :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:28:04 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: You're truly insane. The poem was funny, though :) what's so great about sanity? (:-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:31:32 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Larkin Subject: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin: Excellent B-day present for us all, thanks. By the way, I once heard of a disease that causes you to only speak in puns. Do you know what it's called? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:00:09 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: That was brilliant Larkin. Your best ever perfomance here yet. You made me laugh out loud. Keep these gems coming, your creative wit and humour is certainly appreciated here. As a Knight of the Realm I have certain powers and I hereby do givest you the title of Poet Lauriet and the Forum's Poet in Residence. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:05:43 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: To: David Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: That was brilliant Larkin. Your best ever perfomance here yet. You made me laugh out loud. Keep these gems coming, your creative wit and humour is certainly appreciated here. As a Knight of the Realm I have certain powers and I hereby do givest you the title of Poet Lauriet and the Forum's Poet in Residence. I thank thee most most humbly sire. Ooh! I've come over all unnecessary...(blush) cheers dave. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:10:10 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: yes (I've head of it) but sorry, no (dunno what it's called). I wish there was a cure for thinking in rhymes. Would it help if I meditated? Thanks anyway Scott, for not minding being the swot... (:-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:35:33 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: larkin Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin, If meditation will stop your rhymes, PLEASE DON'T MEDITATE! You could keep a collection to be published at some point maybe. I've really enjoyed the 2 I've seen. Thanks. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:36:15 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin: Excellent B-day present for us all, thanks. By the way, I once heard of a disease that causes you to only speak in puns. Do you know what it's called? -Scott Yes, I've heard of it, and no, don't know what it's called. Thanks for not minding being the swot... (:-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 20:39:53 (EST)
Poster: Sparkin Email: *.* To: Larkin Subject: Larkin (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: You have a track record of complete excellence. I treasure your gems and sing right along. We are lucky to have you singing your rhyme We love you and thank you for shareing such a good time Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:02:50 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Robyn Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin, If meditation will stop your rhymes, PLEASE DON'T MEDITATE! You could keep a collection to be published at some point maybe. I've really enjoyed the 2 I've seen. Thanks. Robyn Most appreciated, Robyn, but who the hell would publish anything like this? On the whole I think it's probably best to remain ameteur(ish?) in all creative activities, then you never take yourself too seriously and it's fun for writer and reader alike (but I must admit I'm enjoying a tiny moment of Oscar-winner type glory here, what with the three rave reviews). Maybe I should have an aspirin and go to bed... PS> You're lucky that Robyn doesn't rhyme with anything much apart from bobbin, sobbin', hobnobbin', gobbin' (UK punk expression circa 1977), or throbbin'... best wishes Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:09:01 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: To: scott Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: sorry about repeat post. The first reply didn't appear for about half and hour after I posted it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:20:29 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: larkin Subject: just joking kiddo (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin, I was just kidding about the publishing but if you did you'd have at least 10 sales from us ex's on the forum and maybe we would try looking up the other 89,000,000 and some odd ex-premies a premie posted us on the other day. And it would be better than video satsang. Thanks again for the smiles. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:31:07 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Robyn Subject: Re: just joking kiddo (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Larkin, I was just kidding about the publishing but if you did you'd have at least 10 sales from us ex's on the forum and maybe we would try looking up the other 89,000,000 and some odd ex-premies a premie posted us on the other day. And it would be better than video satsang. Thanks again for the smiles. Robyn Why are there no aspirins in the zoo? Because their parrots eat 'em all. bedtime methinks... (it's half past two am over here) (:-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 22:05:49 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: as always To: Robyn Subject: Re: just joking kiddo (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Robyn - one final question (yawn... hic!) is 'sundogs' an inverted reference to 'raindogs'? (as in 'we sail tonight for Singapore...') Just curious. If the question makes no sense, just say 'no'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 22:46:13 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: larkin Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: yes (I've head of it) but sorry, no (dunno what it's called). I wish there was a cure for thinking in rhymes. Would it help if I meditated? Thanks anyway Scott, for not minding being the swot... (:-) As for SWOT, I thought you knew my initials. I'll have to do something about that. By the way--a disease that compels the afflicted to speak only in puns: punishment. Don't know what to do about thinking in rhymes. Perhaps it's related. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 09:44:27 (EST)
Poster: Seymour Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com To: larkin Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: 'On the whole I think it's probably best to remain ameteur(ish?) in all creative activities, then you never take yourself too seriously and it's fun for writer and reader alike (but I must admit I'm enjoying a tiny moment of Oscar-winner type glory here, what with the three rave reviews)....' I would like to add another rave review. Poetry that is funny yet with a touch of poignancy - and that's not just because you say I am a courteous gent( although I do try to be ). Please keep 'em coming. Cheers Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 09:53:49 (EST)
Poster: Vic/VP Email: To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: That was very clever. Two thumbs up for all of your posts! Thanks, Veep Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 13:42:49 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: Dear Larkin, You are a master of words, and rhyme. Praise to you. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 14:34:41 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.ne To: Seymour & Larkin Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Hey Larkin - I enjoyed it too (and not just cause I'm 'anxious to please ya!') Looking forward to more. I still remember Nigel's arti, too. Regards from Katie P.S. Wotcha, Seymour! Thanks for the new word. I like it a lot. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 16:55:31 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! love it (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Thanks a lot for that fun! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 19:07:29 (EST)
Poster: John (a new one) Email: JKLUGE45@AOL.COM To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: Brilliant!!! At least someone on this board has a sense of humor. I just found this outfit (finally got a 'puter to do it with). Everyone is so serious and grumpy sounding. It sounds more like a freshman philosophy debate. Whatever side you're on, please be easy on yourselves. Unless some guy is coming through your bedroom window with a knife, there's no need for so much adrenelin. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 20:23:09 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Larkin Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: Another fine contribution from our resident poet! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 12:56:28 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: John (a new one) Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: Brilliant!!! At least someone on this board has a sense of humor. I just found this outfit (finally got a 'puter to do it with). Everyone is so serious and grumpy sounding. It sounds more like a freshman philosophy debate. Whatever side you're on, please be easy on yourselves. Unless some guy is coming through your bedroom window with a knife, there's no need for so much adrenelin. Hello, John, welcome to the forum. I think you shouldn't judge the level of humor if you just found the forum. A lot of very good, sarcastic and non-sarcastic humor happens here. Read awhile and you will see it too. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:39:40 (EST)
Poster: seymour Email: seymour@rocketmail.com To: John (a new one) Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!!! Message: Brilliant!!! At least someone on this board has a sense of humor. I just found this outfit (finally got a 'puter to do it with). Everyone is so serious and grumpy sounding. It sounds more like a freshman philosophy debate. Whatever side you're on, please be easy on yourselves. Unless some guy is coming through your bedroom window with a knife, there's no need for so much adrenelin. Welcome John, You make a very good point. Yet there are a few mental casualties around who can't help but take wasting a good part of their lives seriously. Not all violence is physical or even intended yet it hurts just the same. Hope you enjoy the forum - it can be fun as well as serious All the best Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:42:41 (EST)
Poster: seymour Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: B-day rhyme, and riddle. (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: Katie, The pleasure is all mine. Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Apr 4, 1998 at 05:34:44 (EST)
Poster: Happy Email: To: larkin Subject: Birthday!!! (Re: Happy Birthday!!!) Message: That was brilliant Larkin. Your best ever perfomance here yet. You made me laugh out loud. Keep these gems coming, your creative wit and humour is certainly appreciated here. As a Knight of the Realm I have certain powers and I hereby do givest you the title of Poet Lauriet and the Forum's Poet in Residence. I thank thee most most humbly sire. Ooh! I've come over all unnecessary...(blush) cheers dave. Happy Birthday!!! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 17:25:10 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: It appears to me that some premies are going to have a problem because there's no satsang for them to go to in the evenings to refresh themselves. All they have are the videos of Maharaji. What happrens if you find Maharaji a turn-off? Not everybody is going to be enamured by his video presence. No satsang means no group consciousness or understanding which is one of the main inspirations to practising knowledge. Brian, something wierd is happening Paradise. I sent this post in respose to CD's post below and when I click on it from the message list, I get an old post which I posted weeks ago. But then when I read my post by clicking NEXT MESSAGE from within Jim's post, then I get my correct post coming up. Wierd, or what? I'm using IE when this happens by the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 17:57:48 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: David Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: David, That is what I can't believe. How can the whole M thing work for anyone but new people in particular without that personal experience speak with real live people. I just can't imagine. My mind has been stuck there since it came to my attention. Maybe people involved before can get by with just the videos although that seems like a huge leap for me also but to get the new ones into it all I just don't understand! How long ago was this decreed? Do you know? Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:11:30 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: David, That is what I can't believe. How can the whole M thing work for anyone but new people in particular without that personal experience speak with real live people. I just can't imagine. My mind has been stuck there since it came to my attention. Maybe people involved before can get by with just the videos although that seems like a huge leap for me also but to get the new ones into it all I just don't understand! How long ago was this decreed? Do you know? Robyn Sometime back Mr.Ex said he would try to confirm the year that Maharaji banned satsang. But I agree with you, it is pretty astounding that there is no satsang, and no 'communities' either. I think the reason he banned it was because he is a control freak and he knew he couldn't control the stuff premies would say in satsang. People from the 70s were bound to talk about devotion, lord of the universe, surrender, ashrams and all the stuff Maharaji is extremely embarrassed about now and would rather no one ever talked about. It tends to scare interested people away. Also, if you can't have 'live' satang, then videos are the only alternative, and, as we all know, his video business (selling videos at outrageously high prices) is what keeps Maharaji in Ferraris these days. And since there really isn't much of a 'practice' of knowledge any more (just meditate a half hour a day or so when you feel like it and that's it) there isn't really much sacrifice or discipline to even being a premie. So, people can watch and buy videos, and go to programs, both of which keep the focus ONLY on Maharaji, and both of which he makes a ton of money off of. I think those are the only two things Maharaji cares about. But I do think a fairly large number of premies drifted away from M after the satsang ban. Just anectodally, every single person I knew who was a premie whom I was at all close to has left and hasn't even seen Maharaji for a good 10 years. Sorry to sound so cynical, but given the greed and manic desire for complete control which I have seen Maharaji display over the years, I think those are his motivations. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:27:28 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: > as we all know, his video business (selling videos at outrageously high prices) is what keeps Maharaji in Ferraris these days. Where did you get this 'information'? CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:40:59 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: David Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: Brian, something wierd is happening Paradise. I sent this post in respose to CD's post below and when I click on it from the message list, I get an old post which I posted weeks ago. But then when I read my post by clicking NEXT MESSAGE from within Jim's post, then I get my correct post coming up. Wierd, or what? I'm using IE when this happens by the way. IE retrieved an old page from its cache that matched that URL. Clicking on NEXT retrieves the same message as clicking on the index entry, but the URL is different. The URLs in the index list the parameters in this order: ?who=anything&which=MSG1.txt Moving to that post via the NEXT or PREV buttons sends: ?which=MSG1.txt&who=anything Browsers consider those different URLs, so if you read posts via the NEXT and PREV buttons, you won't find the index entries marked as being visited links. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:45:16 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: > as we all know, his video business (selling videos at outrageously high prices) is what keeps Maharaji in Ferraris these days. Where did you get this 'information'? CD Brian reported that the price of his videos just went up. Someone else, I think Sir David who is in the video business, said each video could be produced at a very low price. The difference is profit. No, I can't say how MUCH profit, but it definitely seems to be there. Did you see how many videos 'Participant' had bought? There must have been at least a hundred, and that's just one person. Brian, can you tell us again what the videos cost? I did see a price of $16 for a FOUR MINUTE video. CD, doesn't that sound just a LITTLE expensive to YOU? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:46:52 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: CD, why don't you tell us? In what year did Maharaji ban nightly satsang? Be sure your answer is in the form of a question for $200. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:47:51 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: CD Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: JW: as we all know, his video business (selling videos at outrageously high prices) is what keeps Maharaji in Ferraris these days. CD: Where did you get this 'information'? CD, how is it that you are unaware that Maharaji is unemployed? That he's never worked a day in his life? Do you think that he lives by his own grace??? Fleets, Chris. Fleets. And Mansions. And Jets. And price increases on videos, too, from $16 to $20 (US). I heard that from a premie. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:01:33 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: JW, I don't think you sound overly cynical, what other conclusions can you come to unless, as has been stated here many times, and illustrated as often by premie's posts, you whitewash all the facts of fraud and abuse M is responsible for to keep your ability to look up to him as a decent master, person, whatever. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:07:25 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: JW & Robyn Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: Not cynical but perhaps realistic. Here in Britain all satsang stopped in 1983. I didn't intentionally split from Maharaji then, there was nothing left to plug into. I went to see Maharaji once since then in 1986 and that's been it. Of course, I've still had the meditation which I practise when I feel like it. Maharaji is wrong if he thinks people are going to want to follow a video guru. After all, you're gonna get sick of seeing the same old face and hearing the same old voice, over and over again every week. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 21:37:35 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: To: David Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: I remember satsang being described as 'holy company', 'company of truth', 'the transmission of the experience of truth', 'where two or more gather in his name', 'when your heart sings and it comes out of your mouth'. Mostly I remember the main ingredient being human contact. Perhaps the definition has been revised to 'company of video'. By the way, if there's no communities, how do premies do regular service? Oh, let me guess... send money. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 29, 1998 at 09:45:40 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Satsang & wierd happenings Message: They are having a clearance sale at VI. All clearance videos are $8. The long Beach video is $35 for 110 minutes. Saw this on a coffee table somewhere... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 07:31:15 (EST)
Poster: perfect Email: To: Everyone Subject: monster Message: One of my early posts to student: 'The feeling of love is unrelated to your ideas. If I think I love someone, who claims to be god and isn't, I should be proud of this? Is your mom at the programs? We know the devotee thing better than you. YOU DON'T KNOW MAHARAJI. You said 'for reasons no ex. will understand...' You might consider your true condition. He hated his mother and brother, his great capacity for love put up a wall between his mom and him for 18 years till she died. Maybe you are programmed? Students response: You don't know me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:16:51 (EST)
Poster: imperfect Email: To: perfect Subject: Re: monster Message: One of my early posts to student: 'The feeling of love is unrelated to your ideas. If I think I love someone, who claims to be god and isn't, I should be proud of this? Is your mom at the programs? We know the devotee thing better than you. YOU DON'T KNOW MAHARAJI. You said 'for reasons no ex. will understand...' You might consider your true condition. He hated his mother and brother, his great capacity for love put up a wall between his mom and him for 18 years till she died. Maybe you are programmed? Students response: You don't know me. great post, whoever... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 07:17:45 (EST)
Poster: human Email: To: Everyone Subject: mahaRAGEy Message: Hello There Lovers of Truth, Our Friend Mili was a little upset at me for the posts I was posting to this innocent little young woman who was 28 years old and had just recently started practicing again after spaceing out since recieving techniques. True, it isn't nice to hammer on a young lady. But anyone can pretend to be something they aren't on a forum. At least until they are seen through. I asked Student: 'How do you feel maharji would respond TODAY on the subject of getting so furious at either Marolyn or staff at the Dec.96 event. Yes, he said he becomes stupid when he gets that way when responds like that to some action of another person. This is not the first time, and this has been a long running problem for him.' Student responded: 'When a person is concious, that is, experiencing knowledge and nurtureing the heart of a child, then fury can be an effective tool in teaching others or balancing yourself. Fury can be used carefully to eliminate ego but preserve the spirit. The innocent who are sincere, devoted, and exercise thier intelligence in service to maharaji do not suffer from his fury. If maharaji crushes ego with his fury then so be it. It is a precise art, spareing the spirit while crushing the ego. Can a premie differentiate from the spirit and ego when all the feel is pain? When utopia is the objective, and no compromises are being made by the master, then there must be no compromises made by the devotees. When compromises are being made in the propogation of knowledge, they must be eliminated by those who value the maser. I believe sometimes a person around me needed to see what kind of effect they were having on me. Fury can address inconsideration, stupidity,laziness. I always feel in retrospect like I should not have allowed my outburst to happen. I have (extremely rarely-ed) followed such an outburst with apologies accompanied by explanations: 'I need you to understand why I felt that way,ect...' Nurturing anger or fury inside would be damageing to anyone. People have questioned the notion of 'good fury'. So is anger one of our characteristics that we should totally eliminate? Or, if that is not possible, should anger always be avoided? I do not think so. My point on anger is this... it sometimes serves worthwhile puposes. Anger is sometimes called for. Is it ever 'good'? Good, bad...it is a tool. Any emotion, anger or fear, could blind me if it exceeded the level of producing adrenaline. Adrenaline rush does not need to be sought out for the sheer rush. It is a tool.' Perhaps you should reread this. Since he was a small young guy he would dominate those around him using fear and 'fury', he knows the cat is out of the bag about this and these are his excuses to himself and others. May he never change his views. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 09:21:10 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: human Subject: mahaRAGEy--I'm either confused or sleepy. (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Human: Well, I'm now utterly perplexed. Maybe I need more sleep. Exactly who is making these statements? There are no quotation marks or other indicators so it's not clear. If 'Student' made the following statement, this is very provocative: 'I believe sometimes a person around me needed to see what kind of effect they were having on me. Fury can address inconsideration, stupidity,laziness.' Or, was this a quotation of MJ by Student, or by you, or was it an observation by you? Again, maybe I just need more sleep. -Scott T. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 09:33:30 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: human Subject: mahaRAGEy--Sorry, didn't see those little tiny quote marks. (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Human: The entire entry from 'When a person is concious..' to 'It is a tool.' appears to be a dircet quotation from Student. If this is so, and there are no internal quotes that have been omitted, then one could easily interpret the statement: 'I believe sometimes a person around me needed to see what kind of effect they were having on me. Fury can address inconsideration, stupidity, laziness.' as a 'Fruedian' slip. Who is Student, anyway? Very suggestive. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 09:49:05 (EST)
Poster: sat guroovy Email: *.* To: Scott T. Subject: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: perhaps I should have used the quote marks to separate the two posts it is from. The quote you mentioned is from the same post and the same paragraph and is back to back sentences. There is more from him on other topics but those are for tomorrow. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 10:20:05 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: sat guroovy Subject: Re: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: sg: Do I know you, or are you just being diminuitively clever? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 14:06:54 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: human Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy Message: Hello There Lovers of Truth, Our Friend Mili was a little upset at me for the posts I was posting to this innocent little young woman who was 28 years old and had just recently started practicing again after spaceing out since recieving techniques. True, it isn't nice to hammer on a young lady. The young 28 year old lady does have a couple of options: 1. try practicing Knolwledge and see what is really inside to be experienced 2. get involved in an endless debate that can be interesting but isn't going much of anywhere 3. read stories in the National Enquirer I am not sure that Mili was really upset. If so he probably shouldn't be. As long as the lady knows what her options are she should do just fine. 1, 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive. I do believe that 1 has the most benefit. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 15:00:31 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Scott, Isn't this bill burke? Hey, bill, does this mean we won't find out about a service opportunity? VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 16:44:26 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy Message: Hello There Lovers of Truth, Our Friend Mili was a little upset at me for the posts I was posting to this innocent little young woman who was 28 years old and had just recently started practicing again after spaceing out since recieving techniques. True, it isn't nice to hammer on a young lady. The young 28 year old lady does have a couple of options: 1. try practicing Knolwledge and see what is really inside to be experienced 2. get involved in an endless debate that can be interesting but isn't going much of anywhere 3. read stories in the National Enquirer I am not sure that Mili was really upset. If so he probably shouldn't be. As long as the lady knows what her options are she should do just fine. 1, 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive. I do believe that 1 has the most benefit. CD Chris, I don't think it's fair for you to dismiss the 'endless debate' here which, you say, 'isn't going much of anywhere.' Given your own propensity to sit in the weeds shooting smiley faces instead of actually engaging in discussion, I don't think you've any right to fault the quality of any dialogue that happens here. Know what I mean? -g Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 16:47:07 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: CD Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy Message: It appears to me that some premies are going to have a problem because there's no satsang for them to go to in the evenings to refresh themselves. All they have are the videos of Maharaji. What happrens if you find Maharaji a turn-off? Not everybody is going to be enamured by his video presence. No satsang means no group consciousness or understanding which is one of the main inspirations to practising knowledge. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 17:36:08 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy--Sorry, didn't see those little tiny quote marks. (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Scott; have you tried increasing the font size in your web browser? In Internet Unexplorer you click on VIEW and then FONTS and then you can increase the size of the fonts. You can probably do the same in Netscape. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 17:46:27 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy--Sorry, didn't see those little tiny quote marks. (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: This is my second attempt at posting this message. Have you tried increasing the font size, Scott? In Internet Unexplorer you click on View and then Fonts to increase font size. I expect Netscape has a similar option. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:03:55 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: sat guroovy Subject: Re: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Dearest sat guroovy, That has to be the BEST anynonomus name EVER! Thanks. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:23:05 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy Message: Chris, I don't think it's fair for you to dismiss the 'endless debate' here which, you say, 'isn't going much of anywhere.' Given your own propensity to sit in the weeds shooting smiley faces instead of actually engaging in discussion, I don't think you've any right to fault the quality of any dialogue that happens here. Know what I mean? -g Jim, Yes, some of the debates here are the result of honest serious efforts on the part of the participants. As far as where the debates will lead, that is a big question. Many of the same issues have been discussed since at least the time of Socrates. I have no problem with the debate. It seems to be the human condition to try to figure it all out. That does not mean that we must wait for or depend on the 'answers' to experience the beauty of this life. There is a very positive side to what M has accomplished that is often hidden by a cloud on this site. There have been sunny and rainy days and I assume that will continue. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:54:31 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: VP Subject: Re: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Scott, Isn't this bill burke? Hey, bill, does this mean we won't find out about a service opportunity? VP Yes, it's BB. And, No, you won't find out. The real 'Master' doesn't post here outside of the imagination of some ex's. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 18:56:51 (EST)
Poster: David champing at the bit Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Bill Subject: Re: Scotty (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Yeah Bill, I'm rarin' to go. Where's this divine service opportunity then? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:05:19 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: CD Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy Message: As far as where the debates will lead, that is a big question. Many of the same issues have been discussed since at least the time of Socrates. I have no problem with the debate. It seems to be the human condition to try to figure it all out. The topics discussed here will probably not change as long as new people bring the same unanswered questions to this forum. Since before the time of Hansji, people have pondered evasive gurus. Perhaps Maharaji will address some of these questions here on a public forum. Or maybe he'll just continue to conceal great cosmic truths in his peddled videos. There is a very positive side to what M has accomplished that is often hidden by a cloud on this site. I wouldn't know about that - never having done any yard work for him... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:18:21 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: David Subject: Re: mahaRAGEy--Sorry, didn't see those little tiny quote marks. (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: This is my second attempt at posting this message. Have you tried increasing the font size, Scott? In Internet Unexplorer you click on View and then Fonts to increase font size. I expect Netscape has a similar option. David: Well... I could do that, but then I wouldn't be able to grouse with such conviction. Also, I wouldn't have a good excuse for mis-reading something. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 19:35:59 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Chris peeks over the edge (Re: mahaRAGEy) Message: Chris, I don't think it's fair for you to dismiss the 'endless debate' here which, you say, 'isn't going much of anywhere.' Given your own propensity to sit in the weeds shooting smiley faces instead of actually engaging in discussion, I don't think you've any right to fault the quality of any dialogue that happens here. Know what I mean? -g Jim, Yes, some of the debates here are the result of honest serious efforts on the part of the participants. As far as where the debates will lead, that is a big question. Many of the same issues have been discussed since at least the time of Socrates. I have no problem with the debate. It seems to be the human condition to try to figure it all out. That does not mean that we must wait for or depend on the 'answers' to experience the beauty of this life. There is a very positive side to what M has accomplished that is often hidden by a cloud on this site. There have been sunny and rainy days and I assume that will continue. CD If you have 'no problem' with 'the debate' why don't you participate in it? Why, instead, do you say it 'isn't going much of anywhere'? Let's face it, Chris, you don't discuss Maharaji because you can't. A long, long time ago, you said that Maharaji's message hasn't changed since you first met him in the early 70s. I asked you then, once, twice, maybe a dozen times, how you could say that in light of various Maharaji 'Lord' quotes. Remember? It was a fair question, wasn't it? Clear, straight-forward. I mean, either the guy's message hasn't changed or it has, right? His message used to be: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? and: Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Maraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. and: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? But, as far as I recall, you didn't answer me. You just stuck to your guns, that his message hasn't changed and that's that. Chris, no wonder you have so little faith in 'the debate.' You never approached the enterprise properly. Here's what a fair-minded premie might have done in your shoes. FMP: Maharaji's message is the same now as then. Ex-premie: Well, he used to claim he was God. Does he now? FMP: Come one, he never claimed he was God. X: Well, right here he said it (shows quotes). See? FMP: Hmmmm, let me think a bit. Okay, I guess I have to admit, he's not saying that now. X: And how about this (show quote where Maharaji claims to be the 'saviour of humanity' and implores his devotees to 'shout it in the streets')? FMP: Yeah, well I guess he isn't saying that much either these days. X: So, it really isn't accurate to say his message hasn't changed then, is it? FMP: No, I guess not. I'd have to say that parts of his message have changed. I still say other parts haven't. X: No argument there. But for now I'm interested in the changed parts. Any idea why Maharaji might have said these things? FMP: Yeah, I've got some ideas. To be honest, I don't really know for sure. You'd have to ask him, if you really want to know. X: Well, the problem is getting him to talk about this stuff. Tell me, do you think he should? FMP: Well, I can kind of understand your wanting him to. X: Well, that's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking if you think he should answer people who wnat some explanation for how he can go from 'I'm the Lord, stop everything' to where he is now. FMP: You're asking ME to say what Maharaji should do? X: Yeah, I'm just asking your opinion. What's wrong with that? FMP: Well, I'm certainly no one to tell Maharaji what to do. X: I'm not saying he'd listen. I'm just asking if you think he should talk about these things. After all, you know a lot of people really went out on a limb for him. FMP: Look, I don't think I should be saying what Maharaji should or shouldn't do. X: Oh, really? And why's that? FMP: Well, I don't know. It's not for me to judge the Perfect Master. X: Who told you that? FMP: The Perfect Master, of course. Who else am I going to listen to? X: So you let Maharaji take the palce fo your own conscience? FMP: No, that sounds ridiculous. I never said that. X: Well, you're not allowing yourself to make this one little value judgment here. That seems like you're afraid to let your mind go somewhere, quite frankly. FMP: Look, you shouldn't be doing this. X: Doing what? FMP: Putting me on the spot about Maharaji. X; Well, isn't that a bit hypocritical? Here, you're telling me what I should do, but you won't tell Maharaji what he should do. FMP: You know, normally, a premie like me would just tell you to 'fuck off' or something at this point. But, since you've assigned me the service of being a Fair-Minded Premie and asked me to be an example to Chris, I'm going to have to try a different approach. Here's what I'm prepared to say. Yes, I'm being hypocritical. I can see that. I can also see that, wuite frankly, I don't feel comfortable talking about Maharaji freely. Let me put it this way, I understand people like Chris, who avoid really talking about him, or Mili, who just snarls and acts dumb when cornered. We premies are carrying a big load. We've been instructed (trained?) to not criticize Maharaji. That necessarily means 'no critical thinking.' I'll tell you something else, any one of us who claims to be up for the task of honest, unimpaired critical thinking about Maharaji is either fooling himself, fooling you or packing his bags without even knowing it. You simply can't have it both ways. You can't be open-minded and flexible and uncritical of Maharaji. Me? I'm confused, if you really have to know. Thanks for nothing! See, Chris, that's what a discussion looks like. If you ever feel like having one, you know the place. - g Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 06:25:19 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Forum Reset (of course) Message: Ah... another week in Paradise. To expire your visited links: Netscape: Click on Options on your top Menu Select General Preferences Select Appearance Click on Expire Now to expire your links Internet Explorer: Click on View on your top Menu Select Options Select Navigation Click on Clear History to expire your links Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 08:43:58 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Archive Online (Re: Forum Reset (of course)) Message: The archive is compiled and online. Added a new White Pages entry for Kim Krashnoff. He/She recieved knowledge at age 7. Kim, there's an interesting Journeys entry in that story. Please write it, as I'd love to read it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |