Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 12 | |
From: Mar 28, 1998 |
To: Apr 4, 1998 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:45:58 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!! Message: For months now Mili has maintained that Maharaji's lackeys did NOT tell him and Harlan to shut down their premie page. Today, he admitted that that was a lie. Was he contrite? Hey, you don't know Mili. Of course not. He just said he was acting the way governments do all the time. (Huh??). So this is what the Lord hath wrought. A first-class jerk with no scruples, insight or self-control. One also with apparently no sense of humour and a madman's inability to distinguish jokes from the rest. He decries our wasting time here -- after he secretly tried to have 'here' become 'nowhere' -- but why in the world does he keep posting? It can't be to discuss things. His first defence to any attempt to discuss with him is 'well, why should I talk with you? You're not sincere anyway'. I don't know what 'sincerity' is anymore, the word has been so warped and misused by Maharaji and his fools. But whatever it is, Mili thinks he's it and we're not. Somehow, I can't quite see it. Where was I? Oh yeah, so he can't possibly discuss things fairly here. Why, he hates it even when other people do. Once, when premies on the premie page started arguing about whether or not Maharaji's ever claimed to be God ('he NEVER said that' versus 'he's ALWAYS said that'), Mili shut them down. 'We don't want any discussion here' was, I think, how he put it. (Too bad. It was beginning to look like a real-life enactment of the sandal scene in 'Life of Brian.') So, tell me, is this not the saddest creep imaginable? What do you guys think? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:08:11 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:18:55 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!! Message: For months now Mili has maintained that Maharaji's lackeys did NOT tell him and Harlan to shut down their premie page. Today, he admitted that that was a lie. Was he contrite? Hey, you don't know Mili. Of course not. He just said he was acting the way governments do all the time. (Huh??). So this is what the Lord hath wrought. A first-class jerk with no scruples, insight or self-control. One also with apparently no sense of humour and a madman's inability to distinguish jokes from the rest. He decries our wasting time here -- after he secretly tried to have 'here' become 'nowhere' -- but why in the world does he keep posting? It can't be to discuss things. His first defence to any attempt to discuss with him is 'well, why should I talk with you? You're not sincere anyway'. I don't know what 'sincerity' is anymore, the word has been so warped and misused by Maharaji and his fools. But whatever it is, Mili thinks he's it and we're not. Somehow, I can't quite see it. Where was I? Oh yeah, so he can't possibly discuss things fairly here. Why, he hates it even when other people do. Once, when premies on the premie page started arguing about whether or not Maharaji's ever claimed to be God ('he NEVER said that' versus 'he's ALWAYS said that'), Mili shut them down. 'We don't want any discussion here' was, I think, how he put it. (Too bad. It was beginning to look like a real-life enactment of the sandal scene in 'Life of Brian.') So, tell me, is this not the saddest creep imaginable? What do you guys think? Without teaming up on Mili, whose one redeeming quality is that he doesn't physically run away from multiple criticisms, he is the lowest form of scum-sucking, deceitful, confused, lying, cheating, brainwashed, obnoxious, and irritating life-matter on the face of the earth. In addition, Mili is entirely too neurotic to really be a true premie because he enjoys negative attention, and spends alot of time in the company of people in their minds (us). He is fooling only himself, but I think he is perfectly fine with that. Mili is also a great asset to this forum, despite the reprehensible act of attempting to shut down the newsgroup, because he provides a living example of how a premie's mind is twisted. All we can do is remember. Also he keeps things spiced up by insisting on behaving in a way that invites us to pick on him. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:24:52 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. Katie, Me thinks thou doth protest too much. Why did you read so much of something you find boring? And why is it something you 'have to read'? Don't you skip posts you know are going to be boring, distasteful, etc.? With Concerned Respect, Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:30:44 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. Katie, You're absolutely right, Katie. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:30:54 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. You're absolutely right, Katie. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:33:30 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Rick Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Hi Rick - if other people enjoy reading the Jim-Mili conflict that's fine. I was just stating my opinion. You certainly can't believe that my opinion is going to stop Jim and Mili from going at each other? (this is rhetorical, as I'm sure you know the answer!) I try to read the posts to keep an eye on the site for Brian, who doesn't have time to read the forum. You are right that I don't HAVE to read every single post, but I usually end up doing so. Thanks for the concern, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:49:49 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. Katie, You're absolutely right, Katie. Jim, I am currently so paranoid that I actually checked to see where this post was coming from before I answered it. It's from you, so... Are you serious? It's too bad we are not all in a bar where you and Mili could go outside and break perfectly good guitars over each others heads, or something like that. Fondly, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:52:03 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: What I think (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: What do you guys think? What do I think? I just read about a page of you and Mili calling each other names. I think that y'all's battle with each other is BORING. Also it's something I'd rather not have to read. I'd prefer it if both of you took it off the forum. My opinion only. Regards from Katie P.S. 'Y'all' is second person PLURAL, by the way. Katie, You're absolutely right, Katie. Jim, I am currently so paranoid that I actually checked to see where this post was coming from before I answered it. It's from you, so... Are you serious? It's too bad we are not all in a bar where you and Mili could go outside and break perfectly good guitars over each others heads, or something like that. Fondly, Katie Katie, What do YOU think about the fact that Mili lied for months here about why he shut down the premie page? I'm insulted that you even THINK of equating me with him. (And that's no joke!) Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 00:03:28 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Rick Subject: Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!! Message: For months now Mili has maintained that Maharaji's lackeys did NOT tell him and Harlan to shut down their premie page. Today, he admitted that that was a lie. Was he contrite? Hey, you don't know Mili. Of course not. He just said he was acting the way governments do all the time. (Huh??). So this is what the Lord hath wrought. A first-class jerk with no scruples, insight or self-control. One also with apparently no sense of humour and a madman's inability to distinguish jokes from the rest. He decries our wasting time here -- after he secretly tried to have 'here' become 'nowhere' -- but why in the world does he keep posting? It can't be to discuss things. His first defence to any attempt to discuss with him is 'well, why should I talk with you? You're not sincere anyway'. I don't know what 'sincerity' is anymore, the word has been so warped and misused by Maharaji and his fools. But whatever it is, Mili thinks he's it and we're not. Somehow, I can't quite see it. Where was I? Oh yeah, so he can't possibly discuss things fairly here. Why, he hates it even when other people do. Once, when premies on the premie page started arguing about whether or not Maharaji's ever claimed to be God ('he NEVER said that' versus 'he's ALWAYS said that'), Mili shut them down. 'We don't want any discussion here' was, I think, how he put it. (Too bad. It was beginning to look like a real-life enactment of the sandal scene in 'Life of Brian.') So, tell me, is this not the saddest creep imaginable? What do you guys think? Without teaming up on Mili, whose one redeeming quality is that he doesn't physically run away from multiple criticisms, he is the lowest form of scum-sucking, deceitful, confused, lying, cheating, brainwashed, obnoxious, and irritating life-matter on the face of the earth. In addition, Mili is entirely too neurotic to really be a true premie because he enjoys negative attention, and spends alot of time in the company of people in their minds (us). He is fooling only himself, but I think he is perfectly fine with that. Mili is also a great asset to this forum, despite the reprehensible act of attempting to shut down the newsgroup, because he provides a living example of how a premie's mind is twisted. All we can do is remember. Also he keeps things spiced up by insisting on behaving in a way that invites us to pick on him. Rick, Now you're talking! Gee, I love picking up all these useful new English words here. BTW, you eat slugs with a dirty fork, you cat litter picking, pecker nibbling, plasmoidal slimemold. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 04:07:08 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: For months now Mili has maintained that Maharaji's lackeys did NOT tell him and Harlan to shut down their premie page. Today, he admitted that that was a lie. Was he contrite? Hey, you don't know Mili. Of course not. He just said he was acting the way governments do all the time. (Huh??). So this is what the Lord hath wrought. A first-class jerk with no scruples, insight or self-control. One also with apparently no sense of humour and a madman's inability to distinguish jokes from the rest. He decries our wasting time here -- after he secretly tried to have 'here' become 'nowhere' -- but why in the world does he keep posting? It can't be to discuss things. His first defence to any attempt to discuss with him is 'well, why should I talk with you? You're not sincere anyway'. I don't know what 'sincerity' is anymore, the word has been so warped and misused by Maharaji and his fools. But whatever it is, Mili thinks he's it and we're not. Somehow, I can't quite see it. Where was I? Oh yeah, so he can't possibly discuss things fairly here. Why, he hates it even when other people do. Once, when premies on the premie page started arguing about whether or not Maharaji's ever claimed to be God ('he NEVER said that' versus 'he's ALWAYS said that'), Mili shut them down. 'We don't want any discussion here' was, I think, how he put it. (Too bad. It was beginning to look like a real-life enactment of the sandal scene in 'Life of Brian.') So, tell me, is this not the saddest creep imaginable? What do you guys think? Jim, You have to be the most pompous asshole in history. You pose as some kind of moral authority on 'sincerity', 'civility' and 'truth', and yet you shamelessly twist all the rules you swear by, whenever you feel like it, have no qualms about basely insulting people just for sharing their sincere feelings and of course, what you constantly deal in is lies and fabrications. Remember the old adage, 'What you sow is what you are going to reap'? Well, it's true. You are sowing lies and deceit, and what you are reaping is disgust, contempt and isolation. You may think that you are putting Maharaji and premies behind bars, but the bars that you see are in fact the bars of your own prison cell. You are right in quoting me as thinking, 'Well, why should I talk with you? You're not sincere anyway'. That's what I honestly think about you. You are an irresponsible jerk who talks out of both sides of his mouth, a rich, spoiled kid who never grew up, and thinks the whole world is a place where you can play your silly, sick games. Well, now you have your own website and people can come and marvel at another one of those cheap Internet sideshows where you can come and tease Jim the freak for free. Great fun! But is does get a bit boring after a while, when you realize that Jimbo is simply repeating his standard, programmed twists and turns with little variation. You are stuck in a rut of your own making, and I don't even feel an iota of sympathy for you to try and help you out. Drown in your own scum, you piece of shit. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 10:07:10 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Jim, Mili, Rick, It is so good to see you boys playing so nice today! I feel like maybe there is some good I can gain out of your nasty name calling bouts. It is having the effect of toughen me up, I think. I have always been to idealistic and saw how raising my oldest girl with that as a central focus she had a harder time dealing with the 'bullies' she encountered growing up. With my 2nd daughter, when she came to me telling me the boys next door hit her I'd say well get back down there and hit them back. It was hard for me to do but she was much better at dealing with the 'bullies' later on and because of other 'lessons' she learned from me, thank god didn't become one herself. So thanks for giving me the chance to brace up against you 'bullies' with no fear of getting hurt. All you guys really love each other don't you! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:36:33 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Jim, Mili, Rick, It is so good to see you boys playing so nice today! I feel like maybe there is some good I can gain out of your nasty name calling bouts. It is having the effect of toughen me up, I think. I have always been to idealistic and saw how raising my oldest girl with that as a central focus she had a harder time dealing with the 'bullies' she encountered growing up. With my 2nd daughter, when she came to me telling me the boys next door hit her I'd say well get back down there and hit them back. It was hard for me to do but she was much better at dealing with the 'bullies' later on and because of other 'lessons' she learned from me, thank god didn't become one herself. So thanks for giving me the chance to brace up against you 'bullies' with no fear of getting hurt. All you guys really love each other don't you! Robyn Robyn, Mili's best performance is his name-calling; he comes up with some good ones sometimes. As I said before, he's good for the site because he displays the programming of the guru cult. I don't hate Mili or have any bad feelings toward him. He's like a dumb family member who just won't listen, or think straight. There's nothing much you can do for them, except keep them away from the knives, and use them as an example to their siblings, about how not to be. Some other premie mentioned down below, how all the ex's are in collusion, and they huddle in email to prepare their tactics. I doubt there's any truth at all to that. I've only had two exchanges through email in over six months. Obviously it would be very bad for this site to have group politics, where ex-premies traded favors to gang up on premies who post here. Jim is quite exacting and sarcastic in his exchanges, and his opponents find that annoying and antagonizing. It isn't very endearing but he challenges premies to look at the delusions they've built up. It may be that one can't coddle up to someone they're challenging in that way. It isn't easy to identify the specific tricks of the cult trade; you know they're there, you've experienced them, but you can't put your finger on them. Jim has done an excellent job at distilling those tricks and articulating them. He's also been persistent at keeping those points highlighted on the forum, so that premies can't just fall back on 'This life... that love... a part of me that needs this knowledge... every day I feel gratitude'. As far as bullies, I've sure had my share of them in life. Usually there's two ingredients: Having some power to hurt someone (like violence or firing someone from a job) and using intimidation to stifle the person. Standing up to bulies helps some times if they're bluffing but you can also suffer some losses at other times if they're not. The worse that can happen here is that a person's feeling can get hurt. Ironically, in this forum, the same denial that allows a premie to detach somewhat from the 'world' seems to insulate them from rude comments and name calling. It may take a lot of insults to crack through the veneer of the premie mind-set. We've only just begun with Mili. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:50:57 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Rick Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Jim, Mili, Rick, It is so good to see you boys playing so nice today! I feel like maybe there is some good I can gain out of your nasty name calling bouts. It is having the effect of toughen me up, I think. I have always been to idealistic and saw how raising my oldest girl with that as a central focus she had a harder time dealing with the 'bullies' she encountered growing up. With my 2nd daughter, when she came to me telling me the boys next door hit her I'd say well get back down there and hit them back. It was hard for me to do but she was much better at dealing with the 'bullies' later on and because of other 'lessons' she learned from me, thank god didn't become one herself. So thanks for giving me the chance to brace up against you 'bullies' with no fear of getting hurt. All you guys really love each other don't you! Robyn Robyn, Mili's best performance is his name-calling; he comes up with some good ones sometimes. As I said before, he's good for the site because he displays the programming of the guru cult. I don't hate Mili or have any bad feelings toward him. He's like a dumb family member who just won't listen, or think straight. There's nothing much you can do for them, except keep them away from the knives, and use them as an example to their siblings, about how not to be. Some other premie mentioned down below, how all the ex's are in collusion, and they huddle in email to prepare their tactics. I doubt there's any truth at all to that. I've only had two exchanges through email in over six months. Obviously it would be very bad for this site to have group politics, where ex-premies traded favors to gang up on premies who post here. Jim is quite exacting and sarcastic in his exchanges, and his opponents find that annoying and antagonizing. It isn't very endearing but he challenges premies to look at the delusions they've built up. It may be that one can't coddle up to someone they're challenging in that way. It isn't easy to identify the specific tricks of the cult trade; you know they're there, you've experienced them, but you can't put your finger on them. Jim has done an excellent job at distilling those tricks and articulating them. He's also been persistent at keeping those points highlighted on the forum, so that premies can't just fall back on 'This life... that love... a part of me that needs this knowledge... every day I feel gratitude'. As far as bullies, I've sure had my share of them in life. Usually there's two ingredients: Having some power to hurt someone (like violence or firing someone from a job) and using intimidation to stifle the person. Standing up to bulies helps some times if they're bluffing but you can also suffer some losses at other times if they're not. The worse that can happen here is that a person's feeling can get hurt. Ironically, in this forum, the same denial that allows a premie to detach somewhat from the 'world' seems to insulate them from rude comments and name calling. It may take a lot of insults to crack through the veneer of the premie mind-set. We've only just begun with Mili. 'We've only just begun with Mili.'??? Rick, I've been hanging out with you guys for a year and a half now! So when is this 'deprogramming' going to be over? Gee, I can hardly wait. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:51:52 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Mili Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Mili wrote: 'But is does get a bit boring after a while, when you realize that Jimbo is simply repeating his standard, programmed twists and turns with little variation. You are stuck in a rut of your own making, and I don't even feel an iota of sympathy for you to try and help you out. Drown in your own scum, you piece of shit.' Uh, I'm sensing some hostility here.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 13:58:51 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Rick Subject: An e-mail conspiracy? (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Dear Rick, I too read the post about ex-premies colluding by e-mail and would like to share my experience. I DO exchange a lot of e-mail with the people on this site. The only e-mail I can think of that remotely could be described as 'conspiratory' is Brian and my communication regarding site content and forum maintenance. Since Brian is the webmaster and I help him with the site, and we don't live in the same state, I consider this to be necessary. By the way, Brian and I both have jobs and don't get paid for working on the site - in fact, the site costs money and is paid for by contributions from ex-premies (including me). The rest of the e-mail I exchange with people who I've met on this site (including a few premies) concerns personal matters such as jobs, spouses, kids, past experiences, book recommendations, people we know in common, jokes and day-to-day stuff. In other words, it's stuff that might be boring, off topic, or too personal to discuss on the forum. If NV or anyone wants to e-mail me and talk about that kind of stuff, feel free. I have talked to most of the people who post on the site at least once by e-mail, and as far as I know there is no conspiracy to 'gang up' on premies. In fact, the ex-premies that post here all seem to have a slightly different attitude towards premies. I usually prefer not to even answer posts by premies - I consider the site to be an ex-premie support group and I'm not all that interested in Maharaji anymore. I have a limited amount of time to post here and I would rather answer posts by ex-premies (Mili and CD excepted from this). Hope this clears things up. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 15:19:06 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Rick, Thanks for responding to my post. I wrote it is fun with a serious point to it and it is that serious point that I am trying to grow from, especially how you can banter back and forth with such seeming disgust for each other but really have no bad feelings for the person. I had a plam reading a few years ago and was told that the left hand reflex your inner self and the right, the self you expose to the world and that in my case what you see is what you get as both plams were almost identical and I think it is that idea that I am trying to come to terms with in this case. Maybe it isn't even something I should be considering at all but it is a sore spot for me and I am trying to get as much from the forum as I can. Thanks again for putting up with my docile nature with such good will. I agree with you about the displayed programming of the cult of the premies who post here with few exceptions and it is that mind'less' set that has me conserned for RD in his search for information to keep his kids safe. As far as the email collusion, I do email some 'folks' I've had the pleasure to encounter here and talk very little about M and K and certainly nothing approaching tactics preparation. I think those premies that have that thought are just trying to explain to themselves why they aren't winning us back over to their side. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 15:21:59 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: Jim: Turd for the Millenium!! (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: Mili, I've been hanging out with you guys for a year and a half now! So when is this 'deprogramming' going to be over? Gee, I can hardly wait. Then start trying harder Mili! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 15:29:12 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: To: Rick Subject: Sorry,typed Rick by mistake-forgetting myself (Re: Mili: New Man for the Millenium!!) Message: I guess you can't post without a message in here. Thought I saw some in the archives. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:05:22 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol* Email: To: *Everyone* Subject: *My testimony...5* Message: * To continue my thoughts on the premie culture as I experience and perceive it , it seems to me that there is a type of awe that premies feel towards M, and on one level I find this understandable. Even supermodels and politicians get that projected onto them. But I do feel that awe is counter-productive. There appears to be a type of collective inferiority complex among premies ; afterall, there's a psychological gulf between M at the top of the mountain and the others down in the valley. In this vast middle-ground, it feels to me that there is a need for premies to do some deep introspecting and vunerable interactive sharing. The question looms, 'what are the implications of M's message? especially in regards to daily life?' What seems to happen for so many premies ,is that a gulf develops between M's message , the experience of K ....and everything else that constitutes daily living. This I perceive as the great battleground of evolution; the tension between the 'ideal and the actual'. This battle, this tension, should not be surpressed,I feel, but rather expressed...shared.... sending it off to the recycle bin...the sub-conscious....is I feel ,damaging. the outward behavior can become a facade....a robotic playout fueled by fear and guilt. Without adequate externalisation, E.V becomes a passive ritual. There is an E.V message ....'get out of M's way' but surely premies should be complimenting M , not tip-toeing around in servitude and anxiety..(or false pride). Surely premies should be experiencing themselves collectively as a linked 'body' of free spirits, rather than clones ,inspired by some imagined ideal. A valid ideal would happen naturally .* Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:21:27 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Excellent ideas, Vacol, really (Re: *My testimony...5*) Message: Vacol, I'm with you completely. Now if you'd just send a copy of your observations and criticisms to Maharaji, maybe he'll do something about this unhealthy premie consciousness that's developed around him. I'm sure he'll be all ears. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 21:18:11 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: *My testimony...5* Message: Vacol, You said that there is an EV message, 'get out of M's way' Would you mind elaborating on that point? I'm not sure I follow. Thanks a lot, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 09:51:57 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Excellent ideas, Vacol, really (Re: *My testimony...5*) Message: Jim and Vacol, I think Jim must have had this thought already but what you wrote Vacol is exactly right and exactly what M wants. He couldn't survive the openess you spoke of that surely is needed for premies to keep from becoming 'dumb robots' but then M would have to become 'real' to the premies and worse yet to himself. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 18:08:31 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: *My testimony...5* Message: * To continue my thoughts on the premie culture as I experience and perceive it , it seems to me that there is a type of awe that premies feel towards M, and on one level I find this understandable. Even supermodels and politicians get that projected onto them. But I do feel that awe is counter-productive. There appears to be a type of collective inferiority complex among premies ; afterall, there's a psychological gulf between M at the top of the mountain and the others down in the valley. In this vast middle-ground, it feels to me that there is a need for premies to do some deep introspecting and vunerable interactive sharing. The question looms, 'what are the implications of M's message? especially in regards to daily life?' What seems to happen for so many premies ,is that a gulf develops between M's message , the experience of K ....and everything else that constitutes daily living. This I perceive as the great battleground of evolution; the tension between the 'ideal and the actual'. This battle, this tension, should not be surpressed,I feel, but rather expressed...shared.... sending it off to the recycle bin...the sub-conscious....is I feel ,damaging. the outward behavior can become a facade....a robotic playout fueled by fear and guilt. Without adequate externalisation, E.V becomes a passive ritual. There is an E.V message ....'get out of M's way' but surely premies should be complimenting M , not tip-toeing around in servitude and anxiety..(or false pride). Surely premies should be experiencing themselves collectively as a linked 'body' of free spirits, rather than clones ,inspired by some imagined ideal. A valid ideal would happen naturally .* Vacol: I also agree with what you are saying, and it reminds me a lot of my experience with premies prior to leaving 15 years ago. But I think what you do not mention is how Maharaji fosters the 'awe' and the 'supermodel' complex that most premies have. He actively, in my opinion, fosters a 'personality cult' in which he is the focus and not the internal experience he talks about. And I agree also that that is conterproductive for the growth of human beings. Ways he fosters the 'personality cult' include making and distributing videos that show him walking around and getting in and out of cars, all in slow motion to new-age music, forbidding satsang from premies, only allowing his videos to be shown. At programs, making he, himself, the ENTIRE focus of the program, including having devotional love songs sung to him and dancing around on the stage while the premies go nuts, selling vast quantities of pictures of HIMSELF to adorn every wall and cranny. Far from being a teacher, whose goal should be to make the students learn for themselves and to become self-reliant, it seems that everything Maharaji does has a goal of keeping people focused on him. No wonder the premies act as weird as you say. I was the same way. I also 'tip-toed' around in servitude and anxiety, and yes, some spiritual pride, because he, whom I didn't even know, was the focus of everything for me. He was my all. Since I only say him on stages in big programs, of course he was really only an 'imagined ideal.' I think the simplist explanation for why this happens is that it's the way Maharaji wants it. He wants people to be fixated on him, and only him. The internal experience is entirely secondary, even though the promise of that is the window-dressing that gets people involved in the first place. If he didn't want the focus entirely on him, he could change that, but then he might feel an ego let-down and he might not get as much money. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 18:41:18 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol* Email: To: *Everyone* Subject: Re....jims message to me* Message: * Jim...in all honesty I have no first hand experience of M scapegoating premies and if I ever do I shall be the first to let you know.* Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:38:03 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Vacol's problems with the IRS (Re: Re....jims message to me*) Message: Vacol: RE: Jim...in all honesty I have no first hand experience of M scapegoating premies and if I ever do I shall be the first to let you know. You appear to be taking advantage of a time honored premie tradition, demanding that MJ cross a microscopically defined and invisible line in the sand before you'll consider the possibility that he's just a thug (pronounced 'tugg.') What is 'firsthand knowledge of scapegoating?' If the IRS asks him what he did with the money he answers 'Vacol spent it?' On second thought, that would get your attention. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 17:44:42 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: Re....jims message to me* Message: * Jim...in all honesty I have no first hand experience of M scapegoating premies and if I ever do I shall be the first to let you know.* If you are like 99.9% of premies, I doubt you have had 'first hand experience of M' doing much of anything but sitting on a stage talking, maybe dancing, giving darshan and that's about the extent of it. His scapegoating, although I have actually heard it from one of those stages, is usually not publicly exhibited. But also keep in mind that it is my experience that Maharaji micromanages virtually everything around him. He is a true control freak. So, I think you can also see signs that the up-tightness and paranoia of some of the lower eschelons of the premie kingdom are direcly affected by Maharaji himself. Besides, don't you think premies, and the way they are, is illustrative of the experience they are having of knowledge and Maharaji? Do you think up-tightness and control trips are manifestations of the supposed 'peace' and 'love' they experience from Maharaji? But I agree. No matter what happens, you are better off if you stay away from the premies and associate with them as little as possible. But, on the other hand, a little objective observation of them might show you a lot. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:25:07 (EST)
Poster: RD Email: To: Everyone Subject: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: Dear Everyone, Please advise... I would like to know if there is any way to receive some supportive information that will help defeat a 20 year M veteran (that is dating my ex and has led/tricked her to M) from continuing his offers to show my kids M videos. They've resisted successfully so far, and I have inoculated them on M after finding your web site - THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE - YALL HAVE BEEN A BLESSING) - plus, I've taken steps to at least somewhat ensure it won't happen again but... would like info./safe and secure communication method with helpful/concerned pro's to counter this 'guy'. He can keep my ex (Lord help her), but he can't have my kids. I'M MAD AS HELL/AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 18:03:34 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: RD Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: How old are your kids? I have found that most children are remarkably perceptive when it comes to knowing when they are being bs'd. Mine grew up with 2 premie parents until they were 8 and 9, plus all our friends were premies. They went to the programs. They had all the premie kids to play with and all their baby sitters were premies. They want nothing to do with M. It's like they got so much exposure, they intuited early on the true experience of Knowledge, god , spirituality, whatever you want call it. I do find the new video indoctrination to be a different matter though I would think it would be even LESS appealing than what my kids experienced. Let us know their ages. Keep posting, you have a right to be angry and concerned. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:36:50 (EST)
Poster: Screwed up at a young age! Email: To: RD Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: Dear RD, First of all, GOOD FOR YOU for being concerned. Selena is right about some kids not buying into this. (I have young family members who hate M even though their parents are premies.) Then again, I know some kids of premies who are now premies and I myself really thought the whole thing was great as a child, even though my parents told me that this was a cult, and stopped me from seeing the premies who introduced me to this. YOU ARE JUSTIFIED TO BE CONCERNED. First of all, keep talking to your kids about cults and about your values-what you think is important for happiness and success in life. Bring up things about Maharaji that point to the hypocrisy-his lifestyle, etc. My Dad told me, 'If someone tells you there is one simple answer to life, they are selling something.' It was simplistic, but I remembered it and it put just a crack of doubt in my mind at the time. You could tell your kids that it is a shame that your ex has fallen for this, and if she weren't in love with this new guy, she might have the strength to see through it. Tell your kids that you trust them and that you think they are smarter than to fall for something like this. Encourage your kids to be honest with you. Sometimes kids will tell you that they aren't watching videos because they don't want to get into trouble, they don't want to get your ex into trouble, or they don't want any more fights, etc. Let them know that they won't get into trouble by being honest and that you will always be honest with them. Tell them that you just really need to know what it going on when you aren't there because you love them and care about them. Have you talked to your ex about how you feel? My parents told our premie family members that when we were adults, we could make up our own mind about things, but that they were very uncomfortable with our being exposed to this so young. (Of course your situation is a lot harder, because one of the parents is the premie) I would have to know more about your situation to tell you much else. Good luck to you and let us know how you are doing. Sincerely, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:46:50 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Screwed up at a young age! Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: I forgot one thing. Have you talked with the premie himself about your feelings? It may not do any good, but a kind word about your misgivings and the fact that they are YOUR children may do the trick. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:12:40 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: RD Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: 25 years ago my parents were worried sick about their 17 year old getting into this wacky 'Guru Worship' (as they called it). 25 years later I am concerned at the vulnerability of my own darling little ones. All I can say is that I shall offer my kids the benefit of my experiences in the hope that they may understand and be on their guard. It's sad really because when I was a young aspirant one of the things that I was told by premies was that I could drop my guard for the first time as M was trustworthy. It was a big mistake to go for that, hook line and sinker. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:29:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: RD Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: Dear RD, I don't have kids, so am probably not the best person to advise you on this, but we have a premie that comes around where I work passing out videos for people to watch, and my experience has been that all most of the people want to know is the meditation techniques. 'Knowledge' is built up to be such a big thing, and in my (and others) experience, learning the techniques was a big let-down. I am not sure if Brian still had the techniques on the site, but I think that showing them to your kids could really de-mystify the whole M trip. (The meditation techniques are traditional yoga practices that I feel are harmless). Premies will say that the techniques are NOT knowledge and that there is some sort of 'grace' that comes from Maharaji to you when you receive knowledge, but I haven't found that to be true. Neither have the other ex-premies that post on this page. Best of luck, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:53:02 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: RD Subject: Encourage their natural interests (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I have a feeling that if your children are like most children, then by telling them they mustn't watch Maharaji videos they will naturally want to watch these forbidden articles. I really don't think you need worry about them seeing videos of Maharaji. They will almost certainly find them boring after a while, after all, there's not much variety. Far better, I think, to give them some Spice Girls videos or something similar, to compare the Maharaji videos to. Most children naturally have interests and want to pursue them. Cultivate and encourage their natural interests and I assure you they won't be interested in Maharaji. I think it's a mistake to make Maharaji a no no if they are to encounter premies. If they are active children with normal pursuits and friends then the Maharaji thing will have no relevance to them. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:58:22 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: David Subject: What if THOSE aren't so good? (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: Look, I say let the kids go guru. If you love someone you have to let them go and it does sound like you love these kids. You gotta let them go. But listen, it's not that bad. It only cost me 8 years and change (this part's the change). And they'll know better next time. Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 21:18:06 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: RD and David Subject: Re: What if THOSE aren't so good? (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: David (and RD) Just a warning - I was 16 and my sister was 14 when we received knowledge. We were interested in what they used to call 'the spiritual trip', and M's trip seemed to be so simple and easy that it really appealed to us.. I think teenagers ARE vulnerable to Maharaji's organization (and, according to VP, younger kids are too). Fortunately, I don't think kids can get knowledge now until they are 18 (except possibly under special circumstances?). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 22:03:24 (EST)
Poster: NV Email: To: David Subject: Re: Encourage their natural interests (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I have a feeling that if your children are like most children, then by telling them they mustn't watch Maharaji videos they will naturally want to watch these forbidden articles. I really don't think you need worry about them seeing videos of Maharaji. They will almost certainly find them boring after a while, after all, there's not much variety. Far better, I think, to give them some Spice Girls videos or something similar, to compare the Maharaji videos to. Most children naturally have interests and want to pursue them. Cultivate and encourage their natural interests and I assure you they won't be interested in Maharaji. I think it's a mistake to make Maharaji a no no if they are to encounter premies. If they are active children with normal pursuits and friends then the Maharaji thing will have no relevance to them. David, I applaude your wisdom. Good reply. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 22:08:17 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Katie & Jim Subject: Re: What if THOSE aren't so good? (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I hear what you say but let's face it, watching Maharaji videos is not most children's idea of fun. Things have changed since the seventies. There's very little premie social life it seems since they all sit staring at videos. I think it's much less attractive. You know what attracted me? The big satsang hall with all these lovely hippies dressed in white and looking so cool. Watching an Indian guy on a TV doesn't hold quite the same attraction somehow. The reason I'm still up Katie is because I was in bed with the flu and now I can't sleep. But now it's back to bed... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 22:37:44 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: David Subject: Re: What if THOSE aren't so good? (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I hear what you say but let's face it, watching Maharaji videos is not most children's idea of fun. Things have changed since the seventies. There's very little premie social life it seems since they all sit staring at videos. I think it's much less attractive. You know what attracted me? The big satsang hall with all these lovely hippies dressed in white and looking so cool. Watching an Indian guy on a TV doesn't hold quite the same attraction somehow. The reason I'm still up Katie is because I was in bed with the flu and now I can't sleep. But now it's back to bed... Good point, David, I keep forgetting about the new 'video age'. I have never liked to watch any kind of video or TV, so I probably would have been put off by that. I think I was attracted for the same reason you were - I really liked the premies. Hope you feel better soon... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 23:15:56 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: What if THOSE aren't so good? (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I hear what you say but let's face it, watching Maharaji videos is not most children's idea of fun. Things have changed since the seventies. There's very little premie social life it seems since they all sit staring at videos. I think it's much less attractive. You know what attracted me? The big satsang hall with all these lovely hippies dressed in white and looking so cool. Watching an Indian guy on a TV doesn't hold quite the same attraction somehow. The reason I'm still up Katie is because I was in bed with the flu and now I can't sleep. But now it's back to bed... Good point, David, I keep forgetting about the new 'video age'. I have never liked to watch any kind of video or TV, so I probably would have been put off by that. I think I was attracted for the same reason you were - I really liked the premies. Hope you feel better soon... David is right about one thing, I was attracted by the Satsang and the premies that I loved were the best! I also loved that Holi video, and some of the others. To generalize all kids as not being interested in that type of thing I disagree with. But Katie has a great point for the worried parent-show them the techniques (if they are curious.) That was the one thing that really had us captivated-the big build up to knowledge. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 23:19:17 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: Dear RD, I don't have kids, so am probably not the best person to advise you on this, but we have a premie that comes around where I work passing out videos for people to watch, and my experience has been that all most of the people want to know is the meditation techniques. 'Knowledge' is built up to be such a big thing, and in my (and others) experience, learning the techniques was a big let-down. I am not sure if Brian still had the techniques on the site, but I think that showing them to your kids could really de-mystify the whole M trip. (The meditation techniques are traditional yoga practices that I feel are harmless). Premies will say that the techniques are NOT knowledge and that there is some sort of 'grace' that comes from Maharaji to you when you receive knowledge, but I haven't found that to be true. Neither have the other ex-premies that post on this page. Best of luck, Katie Katie, Excellent point, Katie! But beware, RD, the premies will tell them that they didn't see the real thing and therefore don't have the real knowledge. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 01:37:26 (EST)
Poster: mickey the Pharisee Email: Mickey the Pharisee To: VP Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: It is my experience that the minute you forbid a child to do something, they are very much interested in doing it. I told my kids about M, and they thought that I must have been nuts. I also told them that I use to take drugs, and they think that was crazy, too. Have they accepted everything I believe? Hell no! My eldest (18) is into Wicca, but I'm not worried; I think that she will work it out. The 16 year old, however, is way too much like her old man. I'm watching her...No videos for them, outside of Satyajit Ray movies! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 08:45:41 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: It is my experience that the minute you forbid a child to do something, they are very much interested in doing it. I told my kids about M, and they thought that I must have been nuts. I also told them that I use to take drugs, and they think that was crazy, too. Have they accepted everything I believe? Hell no! My eldest (18) is into Wicca, but I'm not worried; I think that she will work it out. The 16 year old, however, is way too much like her old man. I'm watching her...No videos for them, outside of Satyajit Ray movies! Michael, I agree with not forbidding anything. I just think that the Dad needs to know if they are watching the videos so that he can discuss his side of the issue with them honestly. My parents didn't even know we were going to Satsang at first because they were told we were going to the movies (there were movies at some of the meetings, but the point is that my parents were misled about what was happening.) At first, they really didn't have a chance to explain their side of the issue to us, until it was kind of too late, for me anyway. After I started writing letters to Maharaji, my parents went to Satsang and read Who is GMJ? and we started having talks. My parents tried to have an open mind at first, but when they thought I was in trouble, they forbid us contact with premies, for a while. I think this Dad should know what his kids are up to to offer input of his own-doubts of his own, not really to lay down any ultimatums. I still think he should express his feelings to his ex and to her boyfriend. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 09:46:12 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: mickey the Pharisee Subject: Yay yay, Satyajit Ray (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: Mickey: Satyajit Ray! Wow, my favorite movie of all time is/was Panter Panchali? (or something like that?) I believe it was the first of a trilogy of movies he made in the 50's. I have not seen that movie since 1971. After seeing that movie, I walked out of the theater totally intoxicated with ... bliss! In fact, seeing that movie really made me think about India, and I am sure made me more receptive to someone from that culture, like the young guru. Soooo, don't be so sure his movies are 'safe'. You never know what might be lurking just beneath the surface of their consciousness. Much better to fill their minds with images of naked bodies and violence. Just kidding folks! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:24:32 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Yay yay, Satyajit Ray (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: I know you are just kidding about the violence John but I have to admit i had a sick thought that depending on the age of the kids a few episodes of South Park would be the perfect antidote to M. We should write to those guys and ask them to do a cult episode. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:36:15 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: John K. Subject: Re: Yay yay, Satyajit Ray (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: Mickey: Satyajit Ray! Wow, my favorite movie of all time is/was Panter Panchali? (or something like that?) I believe it was the first of a trilogy of movies he made in the 50's. I have not seen that movie since 1971. After seeing that movie, I walked out of the theater totally intoxicated with ... bliss! In fact, seeing that movie really made me think about India, and I am sure made me more receptive to someone from that culture, like the young guru. Soooo, don't be so sure his movies are 'safe'. You never know what might be lurking just beneath the surface of their consciousness. Much better to fill their minds with images of naked bodies and violence. Just kidding folks! My 16 year old daughter and her friends spent New Years Day watching the entire Apu trilogy! These Berkeley kids are soo strange! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 12:29:12 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Selena Subject: Re: Yay yay, Satyajit Ray (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: Selena: When I was young, I used to howl with laughter at Our Gang, Laurel and Hardy, the Marx Bros. Back then, there was nothing as obnoxious and graphic as Beevus and Butthead, South Park etc. But actually, Groucho Marx was pretty unsubtle in his approach to women, insult them and try to get them to bed. I really don't think he was a bad influence on me. (well, come to think of it, I did used to get slapped a lot by the girls.) And I don't think the style of humor today is a bad influence on kids. I saw the Satyagit Ray flick, which had such an overpowering effect on me, with 4 college friends. None of them thought very much of the film. The feeling was not in the film, it was in ME. What I am looking for in life is under MY pillow. M was cute back then, wasn't he? When he used to point his stubby little fingers and smile his innocent blissful smile. 'You don't meditate for ME, you meditate so you will get high, I am already high, you need to get high.' Actually, WE should write the cult episode, but wasn't it already done on the Simpsons? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 13:14:45 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: RD Subject: Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA Message: Dear Everyone, Please advise... I would like to know if there is any way to receive some supportive information that will help defeat a 20 year M veteran (that is dating my ex and has led/tricked her to M) from continuing his offers to show my kids M videos. They've resisted successfully so far, and I have inoculated them on M after finding your web site - THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE - YALL HAVE BEEN A BLESSING) - plus, I've taken steps to at least somewhat ensure it won't happen again but... would like info./safe and secure communication method with helpful/concerned pro's to counter this 'guy'. He can keep my ex (Lord help her), but he can't have my kids. I'M MAD AS HELL/AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE! I also think you are right to be concerned, and I think that open discussion, and the encouragement of critical thinking about what is going on is the best medicine. I think it's important to explain to kids that what Maharaji is offering is not meditation, it is a CULT. And a cult, consists basically of three things: 1. A very simplistic answer to unhappiness and life's problems, in this case 'knowledge' and devotion to Maharaji. 2. Little or no tolerance for the expression of doubts or criticism about the cult, in this case, particularly, criticising Maharaji, even for the most obvious manifestations of his excesses, like his fabulous wealth, the fact that he lies about his past, and how he has been abusive to his devotees on occasion; and 3. The fact that members of a cult get to feel superior to others, in this case, to people who haven't received knowledge or who don't recognize Maharaji as the savior. I think point 3 is often the most attractive to people, that, and wanting to be accepted by the premie group, who often appear to be a nice, accepting, loving group of people. But I think kids should be told that you can recognize how they might be attracted to that, but it really is false and unfulfilling. I think if your kids keep these points in their heads, they will see how the Maharaji cult falls well into those categories. And you might suggest they do some experiments. For example, tell them to try expressing criticisms or doubts about Maharaji to premies and see how well that is tolerated or accepted. Have them ask questions about how Maharaji used to be portrayed as 'Lord of the Universe' and that he specifically wrote song lyrics that said he is 'the superior power in person' and see what kind of response they get. Remind them that M's cult it not very different from a lot of other cults premies consider very weird, like Moonies, etc. and that all of them have those three characteristics. Let them know also that there are many ex-premies who feel they have been ripped off by Maharaji and suggest that they talk to them. If they get ANY response that implies that their thoughts are to be disregarded or are not important, that is a RED FLAG. Also, if they NEVER hear premies address these obvious problems with Maharaji, that is a red flag too. But I agree that a child should not be told that they shouldn't be able to check things out for themselves. Just give them the skills to evaluate, always, what is happening to them, and to NEVER disregard there own, personal shit detector. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 15:45:31 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: David Subject: Re: Encourage their natural interests (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: David, The only problem I have with what you've said is that it is their mother who is interested and because they love her they may try or force or fain(sp?) interest. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 21:27:31 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Yay yay, Satyajit Ray (Re: I'M MAH/AINGTTIA) Message: You're right. Politically incorrect or not there is something so healing about irreverent humor. Maybe the humor's gotten more outrageous because people have gotten so extreme and polarized. The Simpsons did do it and they did a great job. I just think the SP guys would take it to a different place. I'm off to Mexico for a week. I'll miss all of you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:12:10 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol* Email: To: *Everyone* Subject: *My testimony---4* Message: *I shall continue with my testimonies. Thanks for the responses , which I am giving myself time to think about. I have awoke this morning with a feeling and a thought . 'WHAT IF I AM REALLY WRONG?' I realise that anyone of us may be wrong . We all may have misread something or other. At least saying this keeps me open to correction. My testimony...4....I was pondering the games premies play. There is a hierachy involved , it seems. Those who get into positions of some power (not all) tend to become role-models for the fledgelings. Hmmm....this was evident at Amaroo97 ; 4,000 premies gathered together for some days. (By the way, my wife and I have never thought of ourselves as premies. We practice K and listen to K : we don't have much to do with others) M himself seemed beyond these games , but I shall give some more thought to this. But premie games seemed to be common. I probably played games myself...unconsciously. But what does being a good premie mean? Perhaps there are assumptions that are not questioned, as a rule. Who has set the game plan? Where is the rule book?. Yes , it does appear that M has aims , reasons and influences that filter down from on high , and it's a long way down from the top of the mountain to the valley floor....and this mountain is a bit of an Everest. The interpretations of the word from on high are reinterpretated by M's messengers ; and this becomes a part of the culture that can seem so removed from the living message M reminds us of. Again I say that personally I feel oppressed around those premies that feel overly self-controlled and surpressed. The general message becomes ' let M do the talking and get out of his way '...but within me a 'no' rebounds ....a rebel responds 'this is meant to be about learning to be oneself....including expressing ones own enthusiasm about life ....ones own creative outpouring ; natutally appropriate to the circumstances , but who sets up the circumstances? As I said to Ira Woods, it seems that many premies are so concerned about giving the right impression that they end up giving the wrong impression.* Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:47:53 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: The bee in Vacol's bonnet (Re: *My testimony---4*) Message: *I shall continue with my testimonies. Thanks for the responses , which I am giving myself time to think about. I have awoke this morning with a feeling and a thought . 'WHAT IF I AM REALLY WRONG?' I realise that anyone of us may be wrong . We all may have misread something or other. At least saying this keeps me open to correction. My testimony...4....I was pondering the games premies play. There is a hierachy involved , it seems. Those who get into positions of some power (not all) tend to become role-models for the fledgelings. Hmmm....this was evident at Amaroo97 ; 4,000 premies gathered together for some days. (By the way, my wife and I have never thought of ourselves as premies. We practice K and listen to K : we don't have much to do with others) M himself seemed beyond these games , but I shall give some more thought to this. But premie games seemed to be common. I probably played games myself...unconsciously. But what does being a good premie mean? Perhaps there are assumptions that are not questioned, as a rule. Who has set the game plan? Where is the rule book?. Yes , it does appear that M has aims , reasons and influences that filter down from on high , and it's a long way down from the top of the mountain to the valley floor....and this mountain is a bit of an Everest. The interpretations of the word from on high are reinterpretated by M's messengers ; and this becomes a part of the culture that can seem so removed from the living message M reminds us of. Again I say that personally I feel oppressed around those premies that feel overly self-controlled and surpressed. The general message becomes ' let M do the talking and get out of his way '...but within me a 'no' rebounds ....a rebel responds 'this is meant to be about learning to be oneself....including expressing ones own enthusiasm about life ....ones own creative outpouring ; natutally appropriate to the circumstances , but who sets up the circumstances? As I said to Ira Woods, it seems that many premies are so concerned about giving the right impression that they end up giving the wrong impression.* Vacol, I'm enjoying your musings. You notice the gangrene and, like any good doctor, want to save as much of the limb as you can. Fine. I appreciate that. Unfortunately for you, perhaps, I think you'll find the rot actually spreads from the head, not the feet. Maharaji's calculated scape-goating of premies for all of his carefully managed excesses and confusions is legion. If you like, I can explain myself further. If you really consider your own experience with some fresh independence of mind, I'm sure you'll begin to see it all for yourself. Just think of Mao's Cultural Revolution. First, he blamed the turgid development of socialism on the party faithful. Then he blamed the rabid bloodlust of his 'youth brigade' on everyone else but himself. Or re-read 1984. It's all the same. The only reason anyone would even THINK of taking Maharaji's cowardly revisionism seriously is because a whole lot of other flunkies do too. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:09:44 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: JW and Scott T. Subject: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Hey JW and Scott T. I thought I'd check out what other powerforums there are and ran into another forum called pergatory, I think. I saw a couple of posts from you guys, but I couldn't glean what the forums topic was. Do you know? Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:42:25 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Rick Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Hey JW and Scott T. I thought I'd check out what other powerforums there are and ran into another forum called pergatory, I think. I saw a couple of posts from you guys, but I couldn't glean what the forums topic was. Do you know? Rick Rick: Are you sure it wasn't 'punishment?' That's the uncontrollable urge to speak only in puns. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:46:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Rick Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Rick - the oldest forum (before the newsgroup) was on something called 'pergatory' (some subsidiary of paradise? They can't spell, I know that.) There was another person named Scott Perry who was the original founder of this site, but doesn't post here anymore (or hasn't in a while). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:58:02 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Katie, No, it isn't the old forum. This has no title or info, just a bunch of posts from March 98. There's posts about duck contests, the Bahamas, joysticks, you name it. And then in the middle of nowhere there's a post from JW and a post from Scott T. about maharaji. The address is http://www.paradise-serve.com/powerforum/pwrforum.exe?who=&showall=ok Sorry, I don't know how to link in html yet. It isn't really that interesting. I was just curious. Rick Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 21:00:11 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Rick - the oldest forum (before the newsgroup) was on something called 'pergatory' (some subsidiary of paradise? They can't spell, I know that.) There was another person named Scott Perry who was the original founder of this site, but doesn't post here anymore (or hasn't in a while). Katie: Thanks. I thought he was talking about that argument we had awhile back about discrimination. Scott T. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 21:08:15 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net To: Rick Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Hi Rick - I suspect (knowing Paradise) that JW and Scott may not know that they are 'posting' on this forum! (Ever wonder where your lost posts go?) Seriously, Scott T got thrown onto another Paradise forum once by mistake - will let him describe it to you! Can't wait to get to Brian's forum...no more paradise or pergatory... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 07:08:36 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: JW and Scott What's The Other Forum Message: Rick: Regarding: Scott T got thrown onto another Paradise forum once by mistake - will let him describe it to you! I suspect it was a site either devoted to sex fetishes, or to cannibalism. They were describing the advantages of eating teenagers and were somewhat surprised to see my post on hermeneutics and deconstructionsim. On second thought... -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 14:46:44 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Try the astrodome next time? Message: Tell me if any of this, taken from the CNN site, sounds the slightest bet familiar: Sect leaving Texas, expects to meet God in Michigan (Leader says spacecraft will take them to Gary, Indiana) The faith still burns for the followers of the True Way, although their divine path to salvation now leads to Michigan. Seven months ago, followers of the True Way moved to this suburb of Dallas -- chosen because it's name sounds like 'God's land' -- to wait for the promises of their leader, Chen Hon-ming, to materialize. [Sound crazy? Bal Bhagwan Ji talked about how 'Kohoutek' (the comet that was apparently slamming earthbound then) meant 'Knock-out HOUston TEK(sp?)sas'] He said that God would appear in person March 31, or on television last week on Channel 18. [Maharaji promsied that those who came to the astrodome would then 'know' that 'God was real.' Can't find the quotes but I know he definitely told us that it was NOT going to be 'just another festival.' Some of the premies didn't bother taking winter coats. Why bother? Who's going back, anyway?] Most of the 160 followers, who dressed in white clothes and white cowboy hats, say they are not disappointed that neither promise came true and will now move to Michigan. [ Boy did we try to keep up our appearance of faith as we gave satsang to each other on the bus p.a. all the way home to Vancouver. I distinctly remember a feeling of palpable malaise as I started out the window between 'Bhole Shri's'] There, says Chen, God will gather all worthy souls in a flying saucer and shuttle them to Gary, Indiana, to save them from a nuclear holocaust. [ Maharaji never did comment on the poor alien turnout at Millenium. Although some may claim it was only his brothers and mummy that talked that shit, Maharaji never did a single thing to control or contradict them.] 'Teacher Chen,' leader of God's Salvation Church, did not admit failure. Instead, he gave a crowd of followers, reporters, neighbors and police five minutes to decide whether to stone him to death. They didn't. [ Too bad Chen didn't have Mishler et al. to cover for him. As it was Maharaji never admitted failure either. Here's what he said shortly after the supposed 'most significant event in human history': Q - Maharaji, wre you pleased with the way tha tthe Millenium program went? Did you like it? A -- Oh sure. It was fantastic. Even if that program had been held in this little ashram, believe me, it would ahve been fantastic. [He was probably thinking it could have been held there and it wouldn't have bankrupted his organization]. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. See, the Colorado program, Montrose program, was so beautiful. So what difference does it make if it happened in the jungle or the Houston Astrodome? [A few hundred grand, I'd wager]. It's always fantastic to describe God..... [blah, blah, blah] ] 'You yourself have become gods,' Chen told the crowd. 'Now, don't think of yourselves as just piles of bones and flesh or you will die in the Great Tribulation.' [ Don't laugh. Maharaji's said stuff equally superficial, fundamentalist and transcendental. He just had the benefit of a stuffy English Colonial prep school, a bigger organization and a better staff of handlers.] Speaking through an interpreter, he had a few warnings for those who would listen: Don't eat meat, or expect nightmares involving the dead animals and indigestion. Watch out for machinery -- those who fail to care for cars and trucks risk being run over while asleep in bed. Other items like computers, toasters, and refrigerators may begin moving around rooms and talking. 'It was a beautiful experience' Church member Lin Hung-chih, 38, said he and others who follow Chen and his 'zhen dao,' or True Way, movement, had expected the earlier prophecies to come true. 'Some were disappointed,' Lin said. 'But I was not. It was a beautiful experience.' { See above quote ] And he still has faith. He said Chen's sacred vision of flying saucers 'gives us hope.' Chen said he and 10 followers would leave Garland Wednesday on a flight to Buffalo, New York, before moving to Michigan to await further instructions from God. Most of the rest will follow, selling houses they bought here in September. About 20 of Chen's followers plan to return to Taiwan this week, said Walter Hsu, a banker who had befriended followers of Chen's movement. The rest expect to be gone from Garland by May 10, said police Lt. Don Martin. Gone, too, was the crush of media that descended on this quiet, middle-class suburb for the promised TV appearance last week. With the seven-month buildup about over, feelings were mixed among residents of the leafy, winding street where the sect bought homes. 'I think P.T. Barnum couldn't have put together a carnival like this,' said Dick Beardsley, 81. Others said they were pleasant neighbors. 'It was nice to see them walking and cycling in groups,' said Kia Vaandrager, 66. The Rev. Jack David Daniels, the pastor of the First Baptist Church, had his own prediction. 'People like this are a sign that we are living in the last days,' he said. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:52:05 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Try the astrodome next time? Message: Jim: Regarding: Watch out for machinery -- those who fail to care for cars and trucks risk being run over while asleep in bed. I went out and gave my 88 Justi a great big smooch, just in case. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:36:51 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: To: Everyone Subject: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic. Motorways in England are designed with a central barrier that divides the oppositte flows of traffic. You cant cross the barries, and if you turn round in your lane and head backwards, you had it. Well Mike did not do what M asked him to do. After arriving back at the Ashram, Mike asked M what should he have done?. M said to Mike that the Lord of the Universe had the Power to Turn the Motorway the whole way round, so that if Mike did turn and go back in the direction he has just come from, the Motorway would have turned with him. Mike for the rest of his life regretted not doing what M asked him to do, and the poor fellow for years kept thinking about this and never recovered from it. Chou Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:57:25 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Salah, To bad he hadn't listened then you could have posted the outcome and all this bickering may have been settled. Do you think what M said would have occured? Personally I don't but I am curious. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:26:51 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Glad that at last there's some confitmation of this story which I mentioned once on the newsgroup. But as I heard it Salah, once it had passed through the premie grapevine, was that Maharaji said that he could have turned the whole UNIVERSE round. This was a good trick by the way. Maharaji probably didn't realise you couldn't turn round on a motorway and he turned his ignorance of British road systems into a possible 'proof' that he truly was the Lord. I try doing a similar daft trick when I'm driving with my children and I tell them I can drive with my eyes closed. Of course I can't and they know it. But would they let me prove them wrong by trying? Of course not!! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:15:24 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Salah Subject: Calling a Holy Bluff (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Just think, if Mike had called M's bluff, we probably wouldn't be here today! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:19:44 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: David Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Salah, David, etc. When I was an acid freak I used to have obsessions that certain kinds of highly improbably acts were being demanded of me. Occassionaly I actually performed some of them, and was lucky nothing happened. I... well, never mind. Anyway, the point is that I understand this person's level of self doubt at not performing the act. It was extraordinarily cruel of MJ to cultivate these feeling in people. What a donkey! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:22:49 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: To: David Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I dont think it went as far as the whole Universe round. I actually talked with Mike about this after they got back. Mike was very upset and felt he blew his chance. He told me that this was the test that he was really waiting for and just blew it. It really took Mike many years to sort this matter out. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:27:51 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic. Motorways in England are designed with a central barrier that divides the oppositte flows of traffic. You cant cross the barries, and if you turn round in your lane and head backwards, you had it. Well Mike did not do what M asked him to do. After arriving back at the Ashram, Mike asked M what should he have done?. M said to Mike that the Lord of the Universe had the Power to Turn the Motorway the whole way round, so that if Mike did turn and go back in the direction he has just come from, the Motorway would have turned with him. Mike for the rest of his life regretted not doing what M asked him to do, and the poor fellow for years kept thinking about this and never recovered from it. Chou You know, it is kind of amazing that there weren't more stories of Maharaji's supposed ability to do miracles. Many times when good things happened (like when his house in Malibu did NOT burn up in the grass fires (although his motorhome DID burn up) it was the 'grace' of Maharaji. Of course, when things went bad, like a premie murdered some sisiters in an ashram, someone committed suicide, the mission went horribly in debt, his plane project was delayed because of his incompetence and the lack of money, Maharaji got too fat to fit into his $5000 suits (I heard this happened when an Indian woman came to Malibu to cook for M. I recall she danced on the stage at Hans Jayanti in Kissimmee and, yes, M was particularly portly at that time) -- those things were not described as 'grace' at most they were described as 'lila' or a glorious opportunity for us to have faith and to surrender. That pie in the face thing, must have been a real lila. One other incident always sticks in my mind, which I have mentioned before. In 1980, when I was coordinator in Miami, at Holi Festival, Maharaji decided to hold an ashram meeting in the Miami satsang hall, which was in an old church building on Biscayne Boulevard. We worked all night to get the place scrubbed clean and covered in flowers. Like most communities, we had one of those ergon chairs on the stage, but the program coordinator told me he thought it was broken and might pitch forward if someone sat in it. Since it was sacrilegious for a mere mortal to sit in M's chair to test it out, we couldn't know for sure. Anyhow, when M's entourage arrived I asked his bodygauard (was his name Mario or something?) to test the chair before using it, but he wouldn't do it either. Anyway, when M came out on the stage in front of about 1000 or so ashram premies, and all the initiators, he sat in the chair and it pitched forward violently and he just about flew into the audience. The look on his face was priceless. He looked absolutely terrified and confused. Very quickly an army of premies came to his aid, replaced the chair and the program went on. (BTW -- that's the ashram meeting when he said that moving out of the ashram was equivalent to moving into a cesspool -- so much for the revisionist statements of 'participant' that M said it was okay to leave the ashram.) Anyhow, it was the first time I saw M out of a situation that he wasn't in complete control. I saw him as just a person doing an act. I saw the facade of 'lord' drop away for just a minute and I saw him in a way I never had before. Of course, I remembered his commandment not to doubt and repressed those feelings. And, despite my attempts to prevent the whole incident, I felt responsible and guilty for causing the lordk pain and distraction. But it is funny that in a brief moment like that, you can see so much. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:58:25 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: This 'Mike' wasn't Mike Finch by any chance was it? I remember similar do called tests which he gave to premies. Ita Woods told us about the time when he was driving Maharaji from a program and Maharaji told him to put his foot 'all the way down' on the gas pedal. It was night and the road was not a freeway but a windind road with lots of bends in it. Ira declined to do what Maharaji asked him to do. The way Ira explained this was that he felt he had failed the test, also. It is easy to see how such things could unbalance someone who really believed that Maharaji was God. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 15:12:54 (EST)
Poster: Paula Email: To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: this is very funny to me.... ok... it seems like that new religion in USA where they used snakes on the rituals.... do you know it? The priests used to say that the pure person without any sin could be bited by a snake and not feel anything. Well, everyone died because of snake poison. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 15:14:58 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: salah_h@hotmail.com To: David Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Yes it was Mike Finch. He is a good guy, I had a lot of respect for him. Sensitive , thoughtfull and intelligent guy. I have not seen him for about ten years. Last time I heard he got settled in Brighton and was teaching at the University. Mike was doing some stuff in Theoretical/Astrophysics. He was very interested in Knowledge/Science and was at one time thinking of writing something similar to 'The Tao of Physics' but from the perspective of K. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 15:29:06 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: salah_h@hotmail.com To: Paula Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Yeah you are absolutely right... But there is some kind of difference here...M certainly had some kind of magentism and power which he eminated in those days. What it was and where it came from ... I would not like to guess.. I really dont know the situation right now. I have not been in touch for a long while. I lost interest , I just felt so sorry for the premies... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 15:58:40 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: salah_h@hotmail.com To: Paula Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Paula Have you received K and what are your thoughts on it and M? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:15:02 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: JW Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic. Motorways in England are designed with a central barrier that divides the oppositte flows of traffic. You cant cross the barries, and if you turn round in your lane and head backwards, you had it. Well Mike did not do what M asked him to do. After arriving back at the Ashram, Mike asked M what should he have done?. M said to Mike that the Lord of the Universe had the Power to Turn the Motorway the whole way round, so that if Mike did turn and go back in the direction he has just come from, the Motorway would have turned with him. Mike for the rest of his life regretted not doing what M asked him to do, and the poor fellow for years kept thinking about this and never recovered from it. Chou You know, it is kind of amazing that there weren't more stories of Maharaji's supposed ability to do miracles. Many times when good things happened (like when his house in Malibu did NOT burn up in the grass fires (although his motorhome DID burn up) it was the 'grace' of Maharaji. Of course, when things went bad, like a premie murdered some sisiters in an ashram, someone committed suicide, the mission went horribly in debt, his plane project was delayed because of his incompetence and the lack of money, Maharaji got too fat to fit into his $5000 suits (I heard this happened when an Indian woman came to Malibu to cook for M. I recall she danced on the stage at Hans Jayanti in Kissimmee and, yes, M was particularly portly at that time) -- those things were not described as 'grace' at most they were described as 'lila' or a glorious opportunity for us to have faith and to surrender. That pie in the face thing, must have been a real lila. One other incident always sticks in my mind, which I have mentioned before. In 1980, when I was coordinator in Miami, at Holi Festival, Maharaji decided to hold an ashram meeting in the Miami satsang hall, which was in an old church building on Biscayne Boulevard. We worked all night to get the place scrubbed clean and covered in flowers. Like most communities, we had one of those ergon chairs on the stage, but the program coordinator told me he thought it was broken and might pitch forward if someone sat in it. Since it was sacrilegious for a mere mortal to sit in M's chair to test it out, we couldn't know for sure. Anyhow, when M's entourage arrived I asked his bodygauard (was his name Mario or something?) to test the chair before using it, but he wouldn't do it either. Anyway, when M came out on the stage in front of about 1000 or so ashram premies, and all the initiators, he sat in the chair and it pitched forward violently and he just about flew into the audience. The look on his face was priceless. He looked absolutely terrified and confused. Very quickly an army of premies came to his aid, replaced the chair and the program went on. (BTW -- that's the ashram meeting when he said that moving out of the ashram was equivalent to moving into a cesspool -- so much for the revisionist statements of 'participant' that M said it was okay to leave the ashram.) Anyhow, it was the first time I saw M out of a situation that he wasn't in complete control. I saw him as just a person doing an act. I saw the facade of 'lord' drop away for just a minute and I saw him in a way I never had before. Of course, I remembered his commandment not to doubt and repressed those feelings. And, despite my attempts to prevent the whole incident, I felt responsible and guilty for causing the lordk pain and distraction. But it is funny that in a brief moment like that, you can see so much. Remember, it was Maharaji himself who said that the ratio of things you can control in life against those that you can't is about 50/50. I always liked these practical things that he says. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:18:01 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: JW Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic. Motorways in England are designed with a central barrier that divides the oppositte flows of traffic. You cant cross the barries, and if you turn round in your lane and head backwards, you had it. Well Mike did not do what M asked him to do. After arriving back at the Ashram, Mike asked M what should he have done?. M said to Mike that the Lord of the Universe had the Power to Turn the Motorway the whole way round, so that if Mike did turn and go back in the direction he has just come from, the Motorway would have turned with him. Mike for the rest of his life regretted not doing what M asked him to do, and the poor fellow for years kept thinking about this and never recovered from it. Chou You know, it is kind of amazing that there weren't more stories of Maharaji's supposed ability to do miracles. Many times when good things happened (like when his house in Malibu did NOT burn up in the grass fires (although his motorhome DID burn up) it was the 'grace' of Maharaji. Of course, when things went bad, like a premie murdered some sisiters in an ashram, someone committed suicide, the mission went horribly in debt, his plane project was delayed because of his incompetence and the lack of money, Maharaji got too fat to fit into his $5000 suits (I heard this happened when an Indian woman came to Malibu to cook for M. I recall she danced on the stage at Hans Jayanti in Kissimmee and, yes, M was particularly portly at that time) -- those things were not described as 'grace' at most they were described as 'lila' or a glorious opportunity for us to have faith and to surrender. That pie in the face thing, must have been a real lila. One other incident always sticks in my mind, which I have mentioned before. In 1980, when I was coordinator in Miami, at Holi Festival, Maharaji decided to hold an ashram meeting in the Miami satsang hall, which was in an old church building on Biscayne Boulevard. We worked all night to get the place scrubbed clean and covered in flowers. Like most communities, we had one of those ergon chairs on the stage, but the program coordinator told me he thought it was broken and might pitch forward if someone sat in it. Since it was sacrilegious for a mere mortal to sit in M's chair to test it out, we couldn't know for sure. Anyhow, when M's entourage arrived I asked his bodygauard (was his name Mario or something?) to test the chair before using it, but he wouldn't do it either. Anyway, when M came out on the stage in front of about 1000 or so ashram premies, and all the initiators, he sat in the chair and it pitched forward violently and he just about flew into the audience. The look on his face was priceless. He looked absolutely terrified and confused. Very quickly an army of premies came to his aid, replaced the chair and the program went on. (BTW -- that's the ashram meeting when he said that moving out of the ashram was equivalent to moving into a cesspool -- so much for the revisionist statements of 'participant' that M said it was okay to leave the ashram.) Anyhow, it was the first time I saw M out of a situation that he wasn't in complete control. I saw him as just a person doing an act. I saw the facade of 'lord' drop away for just a minute and I saw him in a way I never had before. Of course, I remembered his commandment not to doubt and repressed those feelings. And, despite my attempts to prevent the whole incident, I felt responsible and guilty for causing the lordk pain and distraction. But it is funny that in a brief moment like that, you can see so much. JW, I think you are reading too much into this. It's a normal human reaction to be startled if something like that happens. Remember, it was Maharaji himself who said that the ratio of things you can control in life against those that you can't is about 50/50. I always liked these practical things that he says. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:22:30 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Salah, David, etc. When I was an acid freak I used to have obsessions that certain kinds of highly improbably acts were being demanded of me. Occassionaly I actually performed some of them, and was lucky nothing happened. I... well, never mind. Anyway, the point is that I understand this person's level of self doubt at not performing the act. It was extraordinarily cruel of MJ to cultivate these feeling in people. What a donkey! -Scott Scott, I simply cannot understand how an adult person like you can give such serious consideration to wild rumors such as this, and not give serious consideration to what Maharaji is unambiguously actually saying and doing. You are really being childish, I think. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:27:03 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: salah_h@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili.. Are you being serious or I hope this is a joke....You seem to have a sense of humour... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:30:35 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili.. Are you being serious or I hope this is a joke....You seem to have a sense of humour... Of course I am being serious. This place is fuller of rumors than a mangey dog is full of fleas, and I don't mean on the 1st of April only. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:34:50 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I am just relying the facts as they ocurred. This was first hand 'cause I was there. I am not qualifying it in any way, just the facts.The driver of the Van is someone I know, and I was there and he told me just as I reported it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:37:54 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I am just relying the facts as they ocurred. This was first hand 'cause I was there. I am not qualifying it in any way, just the facts.The driver of the Van is someone I know, and I was there and he told me just as I reported it. Sorry Salah, but that is not first-hand, that is second-hand if someone reported it to you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:43:08 (EST)
Poster: Salah Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 16:51:05 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:00:38 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Salah Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:20:38 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Salah Subject: M needed tough love (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: I vaguely remember hearing that story about M telling some english premie to do something outrageous and the premie failed the test. Of course that's exactly the kind of thing that a 14 yr old does. I also remember hearing a story about M on the NJ turnpike after he had bought his mazarati(sp?), and the incredibly high speeds that he travelled at. He was a teenager who never had anyone say 'no' to him. that's what he was missing in life, tough love! And there was no one to give it to him. All he got was the softest, weakest, most useless love on 'this' planet...gaga googoo worship and devotion... Well, not that I wouldn't mind experiencing it, but of course that's why I have refused to become famous because I know so well the dangers inherent in having millions of people worshipping you. Maybe someday though I'll allow it to happen. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 18:27:38 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: M needed tough love (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: I vaguely remember hearing that story about M telling some english premie to do something outrageous and the premie failed the test. Of course that's exactly the kind of thing that a 14 yr old does. I also remember hearing a story about M on the NJ turnpike after he had bought his mazarati(sp?), and the incredibly high speeds that he travelled at. He was a teenager who never had anyone say 'no' to him. that's what he was missing in life, tough love! And there was no one to give it to him. All he got was the softest, weakest, most useless love on 'this' planet...gaga googoo worship and devotion... Well, not that I wouldn't mind experiencing it, but of course that's why I have refused to become famous because I know so well the dangers inherent in having millions of people worshipping you. Maybe someday though I'll allow it to happen. Do you think that maybe because people told M he was God, that he REALLY thought that he was invincible? Maybe being Divine combined with youth, made him believe these type of claims (that he could turn the speedway around, etc.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 18:28:22 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Presumably you insist on rock-solid first-hand evidence before you believe anything postive about M? Come on, it's a simple question. all you have to do is answer yes or no... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:01:45 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili you're wrong again. (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, Mike Finch was one of Maharaji's first drivers. I know him well. That story Salah told was legendary. I spent many many hours with Mike asking him about his experiences with M. He told me exactly the same story. He took Maharaji kind of at face value then (about M turning the world around etc.) There were many stories like this at that time. I think it is very paranoid of you to always jump to the conclusion that anyone who posts anything that could be construed as critical of M, is spreading lies. You'd be the first to hypocritically believe any nice stories that reinforce your lovely viewpoint I'm sure. You make me really wonder sometimes. Its just unreal the degree to which you try and neutralise any attempt to publish stories about M because you like to think everything is untrue. You've yet to admit you were wrong even once. Sometimes I think you wouldn't know the truth if were staring you in the face. Listen. If someone says 'X says Y heard Z say such and such'. You would assume that X was lying by default. Maybe you are judging others honesty by your own lack of it. Grow up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 00:14:04 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Nigel Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Presumably you insist on rock-solid first-hand evidence before you believe anything postive about M? Come on, it's a simple question. all you have to do is answer yes or no... Nigel - the answer is YES. I tend to believe what I see and hear myself. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 00:18:54 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Anon Subject: Re: Mili you're wrong again. (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, Mike Finch was one of Maharaji's first drivers. I know him well. That story Salah told was legendary. I spent many many hours with Mike asking him about his experiences with M. He told me exactly the same story. He took Maharaji kind of at face value then (about M turning the world around etc.) There were many stories like this at that time. I think it is very paranoid of you to always jump to the conclusion that anyone who posts anything that could be construed as critical of M, is spreading lies. You'd be the first to hypocritically believe any nice stories that reinforce your lovely viewpoint I'm sure. You make me really wonder sometimes. Its just unreal the degree to which you try and neutralise any attempt to publish stories about M because you like to think everything is untrue. You've yet to admit you were wrong even once. Sometimes I think you wouldn't know the truth if were staring you in the face. Listen. If someone says 'X says Y heard Z say such and such'. You would assume that X was lying by default. Maybe you are judging others honesty by your own lack of it. Grow up. Anon, If you were trying to insult me here, it was pretty lame. But, check out my reply to Nigel above - I try to take ANY rumor or second hand information with a grain of salt, even if it's 'nice', and to make my own observations. It's not being paranoid - simply being critical, that's all. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 05:27:32 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: Salah Subject: Suicidal? (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Why don't we consider this simply as a suicidal behavior? (Anybody asking for this would be consider that way, and should receive psychiatric treatment). Like many other attitudes he has? Is it difficult to have that idea? Why? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 06:01:39 (EST)
Poster: seymour Email: To: JW Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I remember Mike Finch, who was a good chap, telling me that same story. There were many others where premies were put in a tricky situation ( to obey agya even though it seemed foolish to do so) A premie who did a lot of service at the U.K.residence told me how G.M. had an air compressor and was blowing up the tyres on one of his big jeeps. The premie was just finishing putting the air in one of the tyres when G.M. came up and told him to put a bit more in. After raising the pressure above the tyre's recommended limit the premie stopped again but G.M. said don't stop. These large tyres would blow your head off if they exploded and the guy had his face a few feet from it as he continued to put the air in. He told me that he was terrified and that he was not actually squeezing the trigger completely as the tyre was starting to look like a balloon. G.M.,to give him some credit was standing the same distance away. Before the tyre exploded G.M. laughed and said 'that'll do' leaving a shaking premie to let the tyre down again. Exciting stuff - especially if you believe you are in the protection of the Lord and no matter what you do under his command no harm can come to you. Life is so run of the mill these days, but on the whole I think I prefer it. Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 07:13:31 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Salah, David, etc. When I was an acid freak I used to have obsessions that certain kinds of highly improbably acts were being demanded of me. Occassionaly I actually performed some of them, and was lucky nothing happened. I... well, never mind. Anyway, the point is that I understand this person's level of self doubt at not performing the act. It was extraordinarily cruel of MJ to cultivate these feeling in people. What a donkey! -Scott Scott, I simply cannot understand how an adult person like you can give such serious consideration to wild rumors such as this, and not give serious consideration to what Maharaji is unambiguously actually saying and doing. You are really being childish, I think. Mili: This was not a 'wild rumour,' but rather a first hand account of someone who was actually there. Do you know the difference? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 07:21:11 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I am just relying the facts as they ocurred. This was first hand 'cause I was there. I am not qualifying it in any way, just the facts.The driver of the Van is someone I know, and I was there and he told me just as I reported it. Sorry Salah, but that is not first-hand, that is second-hand if someone reported it to you. Mili: Well fine, so it's second hand. Still not exactly 'wild rumour is it?' It would probably even be admissible in court if it spoke directly about the heart of the charges. Besides, the experience of the consequences of the episode were firsthand, and the two can be linked logically as cause and effect, so there you have it. Presumably the person that actually experienced the motorway incident is not dead, so we could have him post on the Forum. Somehow I doubt you would find even that very convincing. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 07:33:00 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili, the connoisseur of the Mili-neum. (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili: Regarding: If you were trying to insult me here, it was pretty lame. But, check out my reply to Nigel above - I try to take ANY rumor or second hand information with a grain of salt, even if it's 'nice', and to make my own observations. It's not being paranoid - simply being critical, that's all. There once was a salt ant..., his name was 'Mili.' There one was a sugar ant..., his name was 'Mili.' They didn't talk, or compare notes. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 08:41:50 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Anon Subject: Anon, you're wrong as usual (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, Mike Finch was one of Maharaji's first drivers. I know him well. That story Salah told was legendary. I spent many many hours with Mike asking him about his experiences with M. He told me exactly the same story. He took Maharaji kind of at face value then (about M turning the world around etc.) There were many stories like this at that time. I think it is very paranoid of you to always jump to the conclusion that anyone who posts anything that could be construed as critical of M, is spreading lies. You'd be the first to hypocritically believe any nice stories that reinforce your lovely viewpoint I'm sure. You make me really wonder sometimes. Its just unreal the degree to which you try and neutralise any attempt to publish stories about M because you like to think everything is untrue. You've yet to admit you were wrong even once. Sometimes I think you wouldn't know the truth if were staring you in the face. Listen. If someone says 'X says Y heard Z say such and such'. You would assume that X was lying by default. Maybe you are judging others honesty by your own lack of it. Grow up. ...besides, the fact that you heard the same rumour doesn't prove a thing. This is why they are called 'rumours' you know, they go from mouth to mouth and get wilder at every turn. Anon, I am surprised at your affinity for gossip that you exhibit here. I thought that was a prevalently female personality trait (sorry, ladies). Am I missing something here - are you Ms. Anon by any chance? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 08:49:23 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: I am just relying the facts as they ocurred. This was first hand 'cause I was there. I am not qualifying it in any way, just the facts.The driver of the Van is someone I know, and I was there and he told me just as I reported it. Sorry Salah, but that is not first-hand, that is second-hand if someone reported it to you. Mili: Well fine, so it's second hand. Still not exactly 'wild rumour is it?' It would probably even be admissible in court if it spoke directly about the heart of the charges. Besides, the experience of the consequences of the episode were firsthand, and the two can be linked logically as cause and effect, so there you have it. Presumably the person that actually experienced the motorway incident is not dead, so we could have him post on the Forum. Somehow I doubt you would find even that very convincing. -Scott Scott, Thanks for trying to be reasonable here. OK, so it's a second-hand account of a first-hand report. Of what? What if Maharaji was just joking about it, teasing the guy, and this guy took it too seriously? So, you see we really don't know what exactly went on in that van. That's all that I am saying. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 10:00:08 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Dear Mili, When a person tells you something that happened to them first-hand, it's not called a rumour. If I was writing a scholarly paper and Mike Finch told me his story about the motorway, I could reference it as a 'personal communication'. The point is that I COULD reference it. So far three people have said that they talked to Mike Finch directly, and he told them the story. Your attempts to discredit the story by calling it 'rumours' and 'gossip' just look silly - it's not 'gossip' when a person is telling a story about themselves. Why is it so hard for you to believe that Maharaji could have done this? Why do you feel compelled to do 'damage control' for Maharaji on this site? Maybe M would even say that it happened too, and he might not appreciate your saying that it didn't. Regards, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:14:20 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Dear Mili, When a person tells you something that happened to them first-hand, it's not called a rumour. If I was writing a scholarly paper and Mike Finch told me his story about the motorway, I could reference it as a 'personal communication'. The point is that I COULD reference it. So far three people have said that they talked to Mike Finch directly, and he told them the story. Your attempts to discredit the story by calling it 'rumours' and 'gossip' just look silly - it's not 'gossip' when a person is telling a story about themselves. Why is it so hard for you to believe that Maharaji could have done this? Why do you feel compelled to do 'damage control' for Maharaji on this site? Maybe M would even say that it happened too, and he might not appreciate your saying that it didn't. Regards, Katie Katie, I agree that it is not a gossip when a person is telling you something that happened to himself. Then it's just a report which is not objective but can be tainted by that person's personal interpretation. And it is just possible that the person reporting it made it up. I am not saying Mike Finch did that. But, when somebody else tells you about somebody elses recounting of something, then it already enters the domain of 'rumor' in my book. Sorry, that's just the way I see these things. BTW, I don't think of myself as doing 'damage control' here. I am just saying what I feel like. Free speech, right? Are you and Jim doing some 'damage control' of my 'damage control' here, by any chance? It certainly feel like it at times. As a matter of fact, this place could use some 'damage control' for your own good, because people are not aware that some serious charges for defamation and slander could be pressed if someone intentionally misrepresented Maharaji as saying or doing something that he didn't actually do or say. No threat, just trying to save your butts! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:43:35 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, I seriously doubt that M would press charges against anyone. I doubt that he would want the negative publicity. A law suit would be all over the media. (He doesn't even have his name in the phone book, at the risk of repeating this again) Besides, proving that what you said is true is a defense for slander. Just look at the Carol O'Conner case. (I'm not defending Carol O'Conner, I'm just saying that he won his defense when accused of slander.) Unless you had a jury bench full of premies, he would be hard pressed to convince a jury, IMHO. Besides, if you are enlightened enough to be above material trappings, wouldn't you be above what negative things people are saying about you-and lawsuits, too, for that matter? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 11:56:47 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: VP Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, I seriously doubt that M would press charges against anyone. I doubt that he would want the negative publicity. A law suit would be all over the media. (He doesn't even have his name in the phone book, at the risk of repeating this again) Besides, proving that what you said is true is a defense for slander. Just look at the Carol O'Conner case. (I'm not defending Carol O'Conner, I'm just saying that he won his defense when accused of slander.) Unless you had a jury bench full of premies, he would be hard pressed to convince a jury, IMHO. Besides, if you are enlightened enough to be above material trappings, wouldn't you be above what negative things people are saying about you-and lawsuits, too, for that matter? VP, Sorry to have to say this to you, but M has already had his share of lawsuits with his mother and brother, remember? He is not 'above it'. I don't believe that you are so naive to not expect him to react when personal insults and insinuations are repeatedly publicly stated about him. Wouldn't you do the same? He does have a pretty good team of lawyers, you know. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 12:06:02 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Presumably you insist on rock-solid first-hand evidence before you believe anything postive about M? Come on, it's a simple question. all you have to do is answer yes or no... Nigel - the answer is YES. I tend to believe what I see and hear myself. Then unless you know M personally, you're in no position to form any position whatsoever; videos are edited, instructors and other premies may be just as big liars as you believe ex's to be. (What is is about ceasing to practise knowledge that turns someone into a liar, I wonder?) What you experience in meditation may have nothing whatsoever to do with M. Therefore I would suggest your beliefs are almost entirely based upon second-hand evidence. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 12:07:58 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili needs a proccessor upgrade (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, I seriously doubt that M would press charges against anyone. I doubt that he would want the negative publicity. A law suit would be all over the media. (He doesn't even have his name in the phone book, at the risk of repeating this again) Besides, proving that what you said is true is a defense for slander. Just look at the Carol O'Conner case. (I'm not defending Carol O'Conner, I'm just saying that he won his defense when accused of slander.) Unless you had a jury bench full of premies, he would be hard pressed to convince a jury, IMHO. Besides, if you are enlightened enough to be above material trappings, wouldn't you be above what negative things people are saying about you-and lawsuits, too, for that matter? VP, Sorry to have to say this to you, but M has already had his share of lawsuits with his mother and brother, remember? He is not 'above it'. I don't believe that you are so naive to not expect him to react when personal insults and insinuations are repeatedly publicly stated about him. Wouldn't you do the same? He does have a pretty good team of lawyers, you know. How do you know he 'has a pretty good team of lawyers', Mili? Do you know them personally? Who are they? How do you know they're 'good'? What do you even mean by that? Or is this just some unsubstantiated rumour you've heard? Worse, some mere supposition on your part you're passing along as if it was a little more? Mili, did you read the post earlier today by the guy (I'm sorry I can't recall who -- but it was really well put) who discussed the effect premies and ex's behaviour has on the 'viewing public'? I'm glad he distinguished premies, with their supposed higher truth and conduit to God, from plain, old angry ex's like me. Double standard? Of course, thta's the whole idea. Did you read his opinion of how detrimental you are to your cause? Forget the name-calling for a moment. This fellow made an excellent point describing the damage premies like you do to Maharaji with your evasions and hypocrisy. Did you read it? What do you think? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 12:12:37 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Nigel Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Presumably you insist on rock-solid first-hand evidence before you believe anything postive about M? Come on, it's a simple question. all you have to do is answer yes or no... Nigel - the answer is YES. I tend to believe what I see and hear myself. Then unless you know M personally, you're in no position to form any position whatsoever; videos are edited, instructors and other premies may be just as big liars as you believe ex's to be. (What is is about ceasing to practise knowledge that turns someone into a liar, I wonder?) What you experience in meditation may have nothing whatsoever to do with M. Therefore I would suggest your beliefs are almost entirely based upon second-hand evidence. Well, sorry to have to contradict your theory, Mr. Smartass, but the most powerful experiences of Knowledge that I have had did not happen in solitary meditation, but while I was listening to Maharaji's satsang and watching him live on stage. No chance for any video editing there, or any of the other malarkey that you mentioned. That's the difference between a satguru and a phoney guru, you see. The satguru delivers the goods. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 13:15:43 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Anon, you're wrong as usual (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: ..besides, the fact that you heard the same rumour doesn't prove a thing. This is why they are called 'rumours' you know, they go from mouth to mouth and get wilder at every turn. Anon, I am surprised at your affinity for gossip that you exhibit here. I thought that was a prevalently female personality trait (sorry, ladies). Am I missing something here - are you Ms. Anon by any chance? Well Mili, I am running out of steam to try and explain this to you. Here's a last try: I know Mr Finch very well. I know and trust him like I trust my own brother.I have good reason to. He told me that same story, almost word for word, that Salah recounted here earlier. Remember it was HIS EXPERIENCE. How you can interpret that as gossip is mind-boggling. Salah has not embellished it as far as I can see. I think this is a good example of a personal story that has not undergone any elaboration or distortion on its travels. I am beginning to think you are just taking the piss if you really can't get this. I give up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 14:08:32 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili - I guess our definitiions of 'rumour' are very different. I do want to address one thing that you said - are you implying that Jim and I are in collusion to suppress you, or something? Or was that implication unintentional? I hope so, because we are not (in fact the reverse is true), and it makes me angry that you might be suggesting something like that. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 14:25:14 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Mili Subject: Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round Message: Mili Please read the postings carefully...I was actually there... Salah, You said: 'In about 72-73 we went down to Exeter from London because M was there. We were all in Mike's house including M (about 30 people). Mike had a blue van, and M plus few premies went for a ride in the Van. They went up the Motorway(Autobahn/Freeway). Mike was driving, and M suddenly turned to Mike and told him to turn the Van round and go back the motorway heading in the oppositte direction(wrong direction) to the traffic.' You were in the house when Mike was telling this. OK. I got that. Now the million dollar question is - were you in the van when this happened? Did you actually hear this conversation take place? Jesus, Salah, it's simple. all you have to do is answer Yes or No. No one is going to bite you here! Presumably you insist on rock-solid first-hand evidence before you believe anything postive about M? Come on, it's a simple question. all you have to do is answer yes or no... Nigel - the answer is YES. I tend to believe what I see and hear myself. Then unless you know M personally, you're in no position to form any position whatsoever; videos are edited, instructors and other premies may be just as big liars as you believe ex's to be. (What is is about ceasing to practise knowledge that turns someone into a liar, I wonder?) What you experience in meditation may have nothing whatsoever to do with M. Therefore I would suggest your beliefs are almost entirely based upon second-hand evidence. Well, sorry to have to contradict your theory, Mr. Smartass, but the most powerful experiences of Knowledge that I have had did not happen in solitary meditation, but while I was listening to Maharaji's satsang and watching him live on stage. No chance for any video editing there, or any of the other malarkey that you mentioned. That's the difference between a satguru and a phoney guru, you see. The satguru delivers the goods. > Please don't call me names Mili. Regarding meditation experiences during satsang: have you ever heard of 'classical conditioning'? ps, seeing as you weren't going to believe Salah even if she had been in the car on the motorway, it is a shame you had to try and put a newcomer to the forum through that meaningless grilling. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 15:04:18 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili, it's not called a rumour (Re: He Can Turn the Motorway Round) Message: Mili, I seriously doubt that M would press charges against anyone. I doubt that he would want the negative publicity. A law suit would be all over the media. (He doesn't even have his name in the phone book, at the risk of repeating this again) Besides, proving that what you said is true is a defense for slander. Just look at the Carol O'Conner case. (I'm not defending Carol O'Conner, I'm just saying that he won his defense when accused of slander.) Unless you had a jury bench full of premies, he would be hard pressed to convince a jury, IMHO. Besides, if you are enlightened enough to be above material trappings, wouldn't you be above what negative things people are saying about you-and lawsuits, too, for that matter? VP, Sorry to have to say this to you, but M has already had his share of lawsuits with his mother and brother, remember? He is not 'above it'. I don't believe that you are so naive to not expect him to react when personal insults and insinuations are repeatedly publicly stated about him. Wouldn't you do the same? He does have a pretty good team of lawyers, you know. Mili, I know that the lawsuits are somewhere on the site, but why don't you tell me, did his family sue him or did he sue his family? I don't know the details surrounding this. No, actually I wouldn't sue anyone over that. (Maybe I am above it- ha ha!) I sure as hell wouldn't like it but I wouldn't sue. When you have as much money as M, I'm sure he can afford some good lawyers:) Hey, you don't have to be sorry for saying anything to me, as long as the discussion stays civil! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:04:15 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Keys to the Kingdom Message: When I got interested in knowledge, I was hoping it would relieve the angst of life or even better, get me 'high'. I wanted to be in some state similar to acid, where everything seemed beautiful and profound, and I was living in high ideals (beyond corruption, pettiness, jealousy, etc.). After reading 'Be Here Now' in 76, I somehow got it in my mind that maharaji was the 'one'. I went after it wholeheartedly and put everything I had into it. Occasionally I experienced peace and exhiliration, but most of the time I had as much anxiety and depression as before. I thought I just needed to surrender more to experience more. Because I lived in Hawaii, there was no contact with maharaji, except as an audience at programs on the mainland. Initiators came to Hawaii every six months and stayed for about 2 weeks. The environment was controlled and things were kept formal, so there was little chance to see some of the things premies saw, who were around them all the time. Once in a while, I'd hear a strange story about maharaji, but mostly it would be from people who weren't premies. With no evidence, I dismissed these stories easily. As far as I knew, maharaji was the Lord. All I needed to do was surrender more. About five years after receiving knowledge, I was having occasional 'sighs' that revealed I was getting truly frustrated. I slowly realized it didn't work; the 'high' I had hoped for wasn't happening. I knew little about maharaji. I did know he had a lot of money and a rich lifestyle but the party line was that it was all gifts and why should he live poorly. I gave little of my own money because I didn't have much. That wasn't really an issue. I don't know if I would have pursued other opportunities, like a career or something creative, if I'd never followed maharaji, so I can't really claim that as a loss. I was somewhat of an outcast from mainstream society before knowledge and prefer to remain that way now, so I can't hold maharaji responsible for keeping me from that. I realize other people had different experiences. What maharaji's misdirection did cost me was knowing and understanding an important part of myself... emotions, opinions, and recognizing that what I 'wanted' was important. If the promise that knowledge would bring the experience of constant (or even fairly consistent) bliss, I would have stuck around. I don't think it would have mattered to me if maharaji was a huckster, liar, cheater, drunk, or abuser. As I write this, I realize how ridiculous it is, to consider that something clean can come from someone dirty. But having had so little contact with the source of knowledge, I had little to go on but the experience. As it was presented, knowledge was a sham. It was touted as a constant experience of bliss that could be tapped into as much as one liked. When asked in the early seventies, how long it took to realize knowledge, maharaji said it could take five minutes or five years, depending on how much you wanted it. But this wasn't true. It didn't matter how much you wanted it. Ongoing advice from maharaji that suggested focusing completely on this experience, and ignoring emotional, physical, and material problems, caused the pain and suffering of life to increase. At the same time, this process reinforced self-doubt and made people think they weren't doing something correctly. Maharaji addressed this so vaguely that premies thought they were inept in some way, that they couldn't even understand how they were inept. It created total guilt for something they weren't even responsible for. This was the real sham of the maharaji scam, for me. As an aside, I ended up living on the same property as Bhagawan Das, the guy in 'Be Here Now' who directed Ram Dass to his Guru Mahraji. Bhagawan Das was indirect major player in many lives, as that book catapulted many a spiritual pursuit. Two weeks ago, a couple of vehicles around here were dented during the night. After some inspection, the paint chips left behind were found to be from the Bhagawan's truck. It took a few days to put it all together. When Bhagawan was confronted he tried to wiggle out by suggesting that he didn't know if he'd hit vehicles or some big rocks on the side of the road. Eventually he conceded that he probably did his the vehicles. Then he claimed he had insurance and would pay with that, but a few days later he said he really didn't have insurance. He offered $500 for the damage but it wasn't accepted; supposedly some people are going to take him to court. I don't know what's happened since then. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:12:52 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Rick Subject: Re: Keys to the Kingdom Message: Hmm, my truck was the victim of a hit and run as it sat in a parking lot last week. Perhaps I should seek out the local premie vehicles. Thanks Rick. I have seen a similar thread in other posts. We don't know what we might have been if we'd done things differently, I personally think getting involved with M when I did was a great help to me at first, maybe for a year, since I was really messed up. But, there is a problem with long term cult involvement, I sum it up as the lack of involvement in life, the passive, 'yin' approach to life, the looking to someone remote and unattainable as the source of all true love, someone whom you will never have to look at close and long enough to fall out of that enchantment. This, over 20 years, has made many of the premies I know really weird. They will justify anything in terms of M and K. Why not? Who can prove otherwise? My husband said something funny the other night. I was reading the 'weird happenings in satsang' thread and he asked me 'what the hell is satsang? somebody sat and sang a song? Is the present tense sitsing? ' It made me laugh, when we are involved in a cult, we think the whole world revolves around it somehow. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:28:08 (EST)
Poster: Seymour Email: To: Everyone Subject: Old Letters Message: Going back to some postings way down in the last archive which transcribed some of the ‘epistles’ that were written by premies in the late ‘70’s….such as….. ' Date: Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 21:19:02 (EST) Poster: Anon Email: To: anyone Subject: Take 2..sorry (Re: and another letter from 1976....) Message: Rural England, Summer 1976 Written on return to England from USA. I have changed some names and added some parenthesis containing info as to what subsequently became of the people, if I know - Anon (Picture of Maharaji on head of letter adorned with comments from self) God in a human body.. The Foreman.. The Boss.. Our Daddy.. Our Father which art in Heaven... Dear George, I have just been meditating and feel so much love that I decided I should write to you post-haste! There has been an indescribable uplift in the hearts of premies since the festival at Leicester. I got back from LA feeling Guru Maharaj Ji everywhere pouring that bliss into me in meditation on the aeroplane…....' I’d like to protest at the posting of these old letters - they are very disturbing to an old premie like myself. I have spent the last ten years trying to forget that I was a mindless sop only to be reminded of the sort of thing I used to get up to in the prime of my life. Have you people no shame in admitting that you wrote such puerile nonsense? - Just kiddingJ, I am just as guilty and I think it is very honourable of you to let us in on those personal feelings. Any letters I received have long gone and I hope that nobody kept any that I wrote - I couldn’t take the embarrassment. One positive thing about these letters is the sincerity that we all felt and the dedication to what we thought would bring happiness and wisdom to the world, although it didn’t quite work out that way as the ‘then and now’ of all the premies in the letter from ‘Anon’ e.g. ' Jim (1998 no longer practising-works as a surveyor, 2 kids) Harry (1998-now a professional musician, very cynical about MJ) Rowan(1998-into drugs and Maharaji) , Simon,(1990's Heroin addict)Stephan,(uncertain about MJ) Mart, (1998-totally cynical about MJ)Jane (1998 doesn't practise, 2 kids, physiotherapist), Pete (1998-successful producer, doesn't practise Knowledge never goes to see MJ, married 3 kids, quite cynical about Maharaji) a girl called Marion and others. Even Mark (1998-married, writing a book, musician, totally disinterested in Maharaji, says he is just a good businessman) says he will receive Knowledge and comes to Satsang……. ' ….and quite a few more. I must say that my group of friends have not met with such tragic ends as some of the others in the letter but there are many drop outs and even those that are still into it do not seem as dedicated to saving the planet and relieving the suffering of our fellow human beings as much as we were in the good ole days. I suppose that is because GM is now just a meditation teacher and you can’t expect as much from one of those as the Lord of the Universe in human form. Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 14:54:49 (EST)
Poster: Paula Email: To: Seymour Subject: Re: Old Letters Message: Seymour....I am 25 years old and I heard of Maharaji after the 90's.... while people were together believing in the ideologies of the 'master of Universe'.... I was not born yet. I think it must be difficult to have faith in 'make a better world' in the 70's, and then, in the 90's, to discover that everything you believed was a mistake, or whatever you call it. it seems the world now has no faith anymore, and everyone is trying to search for a kind of selfish surviving way of life (maybe). but you felt something at that time, and it was you, not M. that was magical. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 04:13:13 (EST)
Poster: Seymour Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com To: Paula Subject: Re: Old Letters Message: Seymour....I am 25 years old and I heard of Maharaji after the 90's.... while people were together believing in the ideologies of the 'master of Universe'.... I was not born yet. I think it must be difficult to have faith in 'make a better world' in the 70's, and then, in the 90's, to discover that everything you believed was a mistake, or whatever you call it. it seems the world now has no faith anymore, and everyone is trying to search for a kind of selfish surviving way of life (maybe). but you felt something at that time, and it was you, not M. that was magical. Thanks Paula I am touched by your sympathy for the dreams that died young - and it is nice to be called 'magical', although you might not have thought so if I was giving you heavy satsang at the time. I believe that most of us are magical in some way or other. Unfortunately, before we can realise our potential we are either lead astray or suffer from lack of encouragement and support. Lets hope things improve as we evolve. Are you currently practicing the techniques? How do you feel about Elan Vital and Maharaji? Thanks again for the response, Cheers Seymour Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 07:52:12 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Paula Subject: Re: Old Letters Message: Paula: Regarding: it seems the world now has no faith anymore, and everyone is trying to search for a kind of selfish surviving way of life (maybe). but you felt something at that time, and it was you, not M. that was magical. Now, this I take to be an unbiased and accurate account. I'd only add that this occurs in cycles, and that we are about half way to the next big 'creedal passion' event. Paula, you will be 50 or so. I, of course, will be... well, let's not discuss it. Scott T. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 23:41:18 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol* Email: golddiva@wire.net.au. To: *Everyone* Subject: *My testimony...3* Message: I have wondered and pondered about the emphasis focused on M ,especially since the mid-80's, when it became the norm for videos of M talking became the overwhelming source of inspiration and instruction. This shift in emphasis has seemingly relegated M's helpers to more or less minor supporting roles. This emphasis on M surely has its complex historical antecedents......but has been a radical departure and change of direction for M and all those associated with him. Since the mid-80's , the videos have become the main means towards the end of receiving K, supplimented by the occasional visit by M. Slowly over the last few years a new breed of instuctor has emerged with less power than earlier times, but a slightly bigger profile than for many years , but this doesn't seem to make much differance for the majority of premies. The main emphasis is still overwhelmingly on M .....and together with the fact that it is M who also shows the techniques of K , this has contributed to a massive collective projection onto M ...WHICH MAKES HIM SEEM LIKE AN OUT OF REACH'KING OF THE CASTLE'. for better or for worse. Personally, setting aside the complex reasons why M changed things....I would prefer less focus on M and more focus on others. As things are I find most premies, including many instructors, overly passive , subserviant , seemingly surpressed , repressed and oppressed....and this I experience as off-putting and disturbing. There does appear to be a false , cultivated humility in deference to M ; There's a type of expectency to be self-effacing. An awe in relation to the huge profile of M RELATIVE TO THE TINY PROFILES OF US MERE MORTALS. In other words there are a lot of premie ego-games being played out. As if a particular culture has developed over the years, that seems like a type of subyle indoctrination. At the core of this culture seems to be the mostly covert message...'know your place'....but this is not only in regard to outward behavoir ; it is also a message of how to be inwardly too....'know how be inward....seemingly modest....neutral....conservative....egoless....self-controlled....calm..' and so on ....after all are we not the representatives of our great Patriach? Are we not M's special envoys? Indeed I agree this is a significant consideration , but it can be taken too far ...and give rise to the game of who can be the best premie........but truth is not a game. Thanks to those who responded to my earlier comments. I shall get around to replying to you.* Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:07:44 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: Hmm Vacool, You are now definately starting to make more sense to me. Perhaps I was a little hasty in thinking that your former posts heralded the arrival of another premie intent on spouting verbose apologies.Sorry. Keep these lil' ole testimonies coming... Nice to see you aren't afraid to say what you think. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:56:20 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Anon Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: Have to differ with you here, Anon. Part 2 of Vacol's posts makes it pretty clear that he fully accepts the validity of MJ's 'mission', and this one places blame on premie shoulders for the insanity surrounding the little lord. It's never Maharaji's fault - always his devotees' fault. The conned are not to be excused, while the conman is blameless. I don't buy it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:35:55 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: People are always going to fall short of the mark when it comes to following a spiritual path. We are humans with all of our shortcomings. IMHO no one is perfect or 'realized'. Maharaji is the one who has made the claim to being Divine. This is why he is subject to examination and criticism. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:48:41 (EST)
Poster: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Brian Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: Have to differ with you here, Anon. Part 2 of Vacol's posts makes it pretty clear that he fully accepts the validity of MJ's 'mission', and this one places blame on premie shoulders for the insanity surrounding the little lord. It's never Maharaji's fault - always his devotees' fault. The conned are not to be excused, while the conman is blameless. I don't buy it. New Vacol! - for your sinks and drains Eliminates unsightly stains Disinfects until the end That's Vacol - it's clean round the bend! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:26:53 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: *Vacol* Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: I can't fault you for for your observations here, Vacol. I just wonder if you're willing to follow them through to their logical resting place. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:08:30 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: larkin Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: Have to differ with you here, Anon. Part 2 of Vacol's posts makes it pretty clear that he fully accepts the validity of MJ's 'mission', and this one places blame on premie shoulders for the insanity surrounding the little lord. It's never Maharaji's fault - always his devotees' fault. The conned are not to be excused, while the conman is blameless. I don't buy it. New Vacol! - for your sinks and drains Eliminates unsightly stains Disinfects until the end That's Vacol - it's clean round the bend! New Vacol! - for your sinks and drains Eliminates unsightly stains Disinfects until the end That's Vacol - it's clean round the bend! Of course! That's it! Thanks again Laureate Larkin. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 19:29:40 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: *My testimony...3* Message: Have to differ with you here, Anon. Part 2 of Vacol's posts makes it pretty clear that he fully accepts the validity of MJ's 'mission', and this one places blame on premie shoulders for the insanity surrounding the little lord. It's never Maharaji's fault - always his devotees' fault. The conned are not to be excused, while the conman is blameless. I don't buy it. Well that's what I thought but have you read the new 'Chapters' yet? I think Vacol's got some valid points and I know exactly how he feels. Maybe he hasn't 'renounced' Maharaji; fine by me. I respect where he's coming from so far. Anyway,the premies who he is criticising are to blame for being sycophantic gits. He is expressing repulsion at his obsevations which is a hell of a lot more than a lot of premies will dare do. Good for him. Get it out yer system Vacol! Go for it! I suspect that Vacol does not entirely think Maharaji is blameless either. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:37:57 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: [dragged up from below,the first part is NV] JW you've got it all figured out with a nice 'tight' explanation for every potentially controversial aspect of Maharaji's personna. The flaws in your arguments are however glaring and shameful. You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? You said (...in my own words) having a jet, multiple residences, et al is self-serving; he has a jet, multiple residences, et al; so he must be self-serving, right? Or: His work is funded by his followers; if they move on that will mean lost revenue; so he doesn't want them to move on, right? An example of linear thinking JW but you have to bridge the gap from A to C through a hell of a lot of ASSUMPTION. You are still completely in the dark as to his real motivation for doing what he does. Also, where there are holes in your logic you fill them in with generous portions of suposition. For example, '...Why does he... refuse to even let premies give satsang, I believe... because premies might get into that instead of buying videos...'. This is pure suposition!!! These are examples of how you consistently build your 'facts' as you go in order to back up your supositions, assumptions, and theories. SHAME ON YOU JW!!! I thought you wanted the truth. I could go through your post with a fine toothed comb and challenge your other points (and agree with you on some I'm sure) but sorry I don't have the time. I just wish you would be honest and fair. NV, Your criticism of JW rings hollow. Listening? Okay. First, you don't seem to have a good handle on your complaint. Something's bugging you. I, compassionate and insightful, can see that. Yet you've got your terminology all wrong. Your complaint with JW appears to be about his 'wild, irresponsible and prejudiced' speculation, not his logic. (My words, of course, but they do represent your thoughts, don't they?). His assumptions aren't logical inferences so much as guesses. If you want to attack them, there's only one way to do it: you have to get in there and fight about the relative probabilities. I don't think JW would even think of saying he knows for sure what makes the fat boy sing, but he's challenging you to say why his speculation is less valid than one you'd offer instead. I'd join him in that, by the way. NV, you're in a tough spot. On the one hand, you're absolutely offended, I'm sure, that anyone would even deign to discuss Maharaji, let alone to dwell on unflattering speculations about him. I'm sure that you're more comfortable thinking that Maharaji sets the agenda about who can talk about him and with respect to what. If he wants 'privacy', you give it. But, NV, outside of the world of fawning devotees, the picture's quite different. What we have here is a guy who once shouted to the world to take notice of him. Were you around for the 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' campaign? If so, you'll recall how smugly Maharaji and his crew urged the world to ask the question, 'ask 'til you know the answer.' That's one thing that REALLY undermines any legitimate claim he might have to the selective anonymity, the freedom from prying eyes, he covets and which you're trying to maintain on his behalf. So that would all be true enough for any journalist looking into the Maharaji cult today, in 1998. And, I don't tihnk you'll find anyone outside fo your cult who'll agree even the slightest with you that this former Lord of the Universe, Saviour of Mankind has earned himself a little bit of public scrutiny. Really, NV, just think about it. He declared that Millenium was going to be the most significant event in the history of mankind. (Yes, HE said it. I've got the quotes. Don't quibble). But, added to all that is the fact that JW and the rest of us were personally affected enormously by this guy. You might try to say we didn't get his words right or we didn't come with the right attitude or whatever you want. The point is, though, we were his followers and now we want to discuss him. We'd really like to discuss WITH him but, failing that we certainly want to talk about him. Who are you to interfere with that? I don't recall your face being on the altar when I surrendered my life to him. You should not try to block the flow, dude. It's extremely rude. Then we get into this inteesting area: speculation. See, you've jumped in here to defend Maharaji. The only way you can possibly do that is to speculate. You don't have morning press briefings with him. You don't know why he said this or that. Your gues is as good as mine or JWs and then, on if you're sincere. Most premies who post here are anything but, sorry to say. So you think JW's speculations are nuts? Why? Get into the substance, NV. Prove your points if you can. Personally, I think JW's got an excellent theory that Maharaji is attached to his income stream and considers everything he says and does in terms of how it will be affected. (see Mishler's interview for a perfect example of someone who had a LOT of reasons, apparently, to think just that). You disagree? Fine... but why? Look, there's always an alternative course you can take. You think this specualtion's onerous? Why not go to the man himself and get us some answers? Mind if I speculate on all the reasons you won't do that? Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:11:12 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: NV: You said: You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? It's not 'standard logic.' It's called 'transitivity,' and according to John Warfield who wrote the book on complexity and logic, transitivity holds for most relationships and conditions. There are certainly some non-transitive relationships, though. Atilla loves Betty, and Betty loves Genghis, therefore Atilla loves Genghis. Doesn't quite cut it. But how does non-transitivity apply in this case? Multiple residences are self serving (in most cases... true). MJ has multiple residences (in this case... true). There is a strong probability that MJ is self-serving. What alternative explanation do you have to offer that would reduce the probability? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 01:57:22 (EST)
Poster: JW Response to NV Email: To: NV Subject: Re: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: JW you've got it all figured out with a nice 'tight' explanation for every potentially controversial aspect of Maharaji's personna. The flaws in your arguments are however glaring and shameful. You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? You said (...in my own words) having a jet, multiple residences, et al is self-serving; he has a jet, multiple residences, et al; so he must be self-serving, right? Or: His work is funded by his followers; if they move on that will mean lost revenue; so he doesn't want them to move on, right? An example of linear thinking JW but you have to bridge the gap from A to C through a hell of a lot of ASSUMPTION. You are still completely in the dark as to his real motivation for doing what he does. Also, where there are holes in your logic you fill them in with generous portions of suposition. For example, '...Why does he... refuse to even let premies give satsang, I believe... because premies might get into that instead of buying videos...'. This is pure suposition!!! These are examples of how you consistently build your 'facts' as you go in order to back up your supositions, assumptions, and theories. SHAME ON YOU JW!!! I thought you wanted the truth. I could go through your post with a fine toothed comb and challenge your other points (and agree with you on some I'm sure) but sorry I don't have the time. I just wish you would be honest and fair. Thanks to Jim for moving this up. I'm not so sure I could even find it down below. NV: You call YOUR response honest and fair? I call it no response at all. You had stated that NOTHING Maharaji does creates dissonance with you, leading someone to believe that there is no alternative way to view Maharaji. I posited some things that would tend to create some questioning in the average person, to which you did not bother to respond, apparently because, you said, I can't prove what Maharaji's subjective motivations are. No, I can't do that, but then neither can you. And except for his drinking problem, which has been reported to me by others who saw it, but I haven't observed myself, these 'behaviors' of his have been observed with my own eyes. I have SEEN the lavish lifestyle (the multiple residences, the fleet of luxury cars, the planes, etc.). I have SEEN the abusive behavior; I have SEEN the thrones, the crowns, the darshan, the pranams, and I have heard the devotional love songs. People can make up their own minds as to whether my interpretation of those pieces of evidence hold water. But then you don't bother to explain them at all. Is it because you can't, or because your explanation would sound kind of, well, nuts? And I say shame on you for slinking away form the discussion. Frankly, I'm not surprised. I couldn't care one iota if your thinking is changed. When I was a premie, those things wouldn't have changed my thinking either, although back in my brain somewhere, I did question those very things, but wouldn't dare say I did. I just wouldn't let it come to the surface. [I obeyed the commandment and didn't doubt.] But, frankly, I don't consider you the real audience of these posts. I am more interested in seeing that non-premies, and premies who are questioning the very things I mentioned, get some support, and know that there is another side to the story that they won't get from premies, from his 'aspirant program,' and certainly not from Maharaji himself, except of course, by his actions, which speak a lot louder than his words. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:08:39 (EST)
Poster: NV Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: NV: You said: You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? It's not 'standard logic.' It's called 'transitivity,' and according to John Warfield who wrote the book on complexity and logic, transitivity holds for most relationships and conditions. There are certainly some non-transitive relationships, though. Atilla loves Betty, and Betty loves Genghis, therefore Atilla loves Genghis. Doesn't quite cut it. But how does non-transitivity apply in this case? Multiple residences are self serving (in most cases... true). MJ has multiple residences (in this case... true). There is a strong probability that MJ is self-serving. What alternative explanation do you have to offer that would reduce the probability? -Scott Multiple residences means he spends MOST of his life travelling and it is far more efficient to have 'base camps' already established around the world than to fly back to California when he needs to. A jet means he spends MOST of his life travelling and he couldn't reach the people he does with the frequency he does without having this mobility. Look I really don't know who John Warfield is re; the validity of transivity. And I don't know why you would automatically believe what he has to say. For most arguments you can find a theory supported by 'facts' somewhere upon which to base your propositions. But if you've had any exposure to scientific process you know that 'facts' are regularly bent to support a researcher's hypothesis. So yes Scott, the law of transivity doesn't hold in this case. The lesson is you just can't let a theorem do your thinking for you. And another thing, please don't bring probability into the argument as reliable baseline. Lottery winners and plane crash victims defy the odds of probability everyday. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 09:05:32 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: NV Subject: Re: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: NV: You said: You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? It's not 'standard logic.' It's called 'transitivity,' and according to John Warfield who wrote the book on complexity and logic, transitivity holds for most relationships and conditions. There are certainly some non-transitive relationships, though. Atilla loves Betty, and Betty loves Genghis, therefore Atilla loves Genghis. Doesn't quite cut it. But how does non-transitivity apply in this case? Multiple residences are self serving (in most cases... true). MJ has multiple residences (in this case... true). There is a strong probability that MJ is self-serving. What alternative explanation do you have to offer that would reduce the probability? -Scott Multiple residences means he spends MOST of his life travelling and it is far more efficient to have 'base camps' already established around the world than to fly back to California when he needs to. A jet means he spends MOST of his life travelling and he couldn't reach the people he does with the frequency he does without having this mobility. Look I really don't know who John Warfield is re; the validity of transivity. And I don't know why you would automatically believe what he has to say. For most arguments you can find a theory supported by 'facts' somewhere upon which to base your propositions. But if you've had any exposure to scientific process you know that 'facts' are regularly bent to support a researcher's hypothesis. So yes Scott, the law of transivity doesn't hold in this case. The lesson is you just can't let a theorem do your thinking for you. And another thing, please don't bring probability into the argument as reliable baseline. Lottery winners and plane crash victims defy the odds of probability everyday. NV: John Warfield is University Professor in Interactive Management and, independently of R. Buckminster Fuller, discovered principles of Comprehensive Design Science. The common link is probably an American Pragmatist philosopher in the last century named Charles Sanders Peirce (pronounced 'purse') To put it another way, he spends his time 'exploding' the concept that specialized disciplines and domains deserve their own specialized logic (which appears to be your point). I don't automatically accept everything he says but he has conducted about 30 years worth of workshops for manufacturing firms, governments, think tanks, citizen groups and the military and finds very few instances where a practical problem is non-transitive. The small percentage of non-transitive problems usually have to do with personal relationships of the kind I mention previously. The problem of whether or not Maharaji is self serving is transitive, although you have suggested some other elements in the causal chain that may be relevant. But those are transitive too. The conclusion (which is not merely what you choose to believe, but is based upon a group dynamic that is by definition probabilistic) is determined by the weight placed on each link in the causal chain. We know how you assign weights, and we therefore know your 'foregone' conclusion. I venture to say that the links in your particular version all carry weights of 1 or a probability of 100%. Of course, if you're applying 'non-standard' logic they may have a probability of 150%, 200% or whatever. MJ does, in fact, travel a lot. However, I believe he travels a lot because he is self-serving. I place that probability at greater than 95%. Others would place it higher. Why do we say that? Because there is another causal chain suggesting this conclusion, having to do with why he needs things like golden shitters, etc. Why he drinks too much. Why he doesn't meditate. Why he never has a kind word for anyone. Why he frequently harms people without remorse. Why he never makes a tough decision. Why he never apologizes for mistakes. Why he never acknowledges mistakes. Why he never assumed any financial responsibility for any of his Ashrams and their residents. etc., etc. Why he sent Padarthanand back to India rather than face assault [or murder?] charges in the US. Those are all potentially evidence of non-self-centeredness. Name one instance were he meets the standard? One. Just one. Still, he might have good intentions. I'll tell you what... give him a quarter for me, and tell him to go to hell. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 13:36:59 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: NV Subject: Re: NV's critique of JW's thought-process Message: NV: You said: You use standard logic, ie: if A equals B, and B equals C, then A must equal C, right? It's not 'standard logic.' It's called 'transitivity,' and according to John Warfield who wrote the book on complexity and logic, transitivity holds for most relationships and conditions. There are certainly some non-transitive relationships, though. Atilla loves Betty, and Betty loves Genghis, therefore Atilla loves Genghis. Doesn't quite cut it. But how does non-transitivity apply in this case? Multiple residences are self serving (in most cases... true). MJ has multiple residences (in this case... true). There is a strong probability that MJ is self-serving. What alternative explanation do you have to offer that would reduce the probability? -Scott Multiple residences means he spends MOST of his life travelling and it is far more efficient to have 'base camps' already established around the world than to fly back to California when he needs to. A jet means he spends MOST of his life travelling and he couldn't reach the people he does with the frequency he does without having this mobility. Look I really don't know who John Warfield is re; the validity of transivity. And I don't know why you would automatically believe what he has to say. For most arguments you can find a theory supported by 'facts' somewhere upon which to base your propositions. But if you've had any exposure to scientific process you know that 'facts' are regularly bent to support a researcher's hypothesis. So yes Scott, the law of transivity doesn't hold in this case. The lesson is you just can't let a theorem do your thinking for you. And another thing, please don't bring probability into the argument as reliable baseline. Lottery winners and plane crash victims defy the odds of probability everyday. Well, now that you mention multiple residences, one should also mention the quality of those residences, you know, the fact that they have gold plumbing fixtures and other opulent furnishings and fixtures, and have personal servants in them. And the fleet of luxury cars doesn't seem to have much effect on the amount of his travel. I mean, he can ONLY use ONE at a time, now can he, so why does he need a fleet, except the fact that he is just really into and desirous of them? So, what ARE his priorities. And is traveling first class so painful and terrible for him that he has to have those monstrously expensive private jets? And from what I have seen, Maharaji really likes to travel. I know I do, and he doesn't have to put up with airports and airline food because he has a private jet, which he is really INTO flying himself. and he his own personal servants to wait on him hand and foot. He even has his own private helicopter to take him to his plane, so he doesn't even have the bear riding to the airport in a private luxury car. He doesn't even need to carry his own baggage. And when he gets where he is going he either stays in yet another luxurious residence, or he stays in whatever the best accommodations available are. Then he goes to a program and people fawn all over him and worship him, no matter what drivel he spouts, repetitively, over and over. He flies onto the next stop and says the same crap. Sounds pretty good to me. From what I have seen, I think Maharaji is REALLY INTO planes, cars, the faster and more luxurious the better. He is really greedy for them. The excuse that he needs that stuff to do selfless propogation of knowledge is pretty weak to anyone with half a brain. And if he really wanted to 'reach people' he could do more than preach to the converted and really advertise the fact that he has knowledge available for people. Instead, he avoids the press and publicity like the plague. He even avoids the internet, which might be another way to reach people. No, I don't think his travelling is about spreading knowledge. I think it's about keeping a core group devoted to him, which is necessary to keep the cash flowing. As Scott has stated, I agree that M is basically in a conservative phase, he does what he does to hold on to what he's got, not to really try to save the world to propogate extensively. This is a big change from his past, when he at least paid lip service to trying to bring knowledge and peace to the entire world. And your rejection of probability is just silly. When someone makes an argument, they then gather the evidence that supports it, and with the preponderance of the evidence, people decide whether the position is correct, incorrect, or an alternative is more likely to be correct. Given your weak arguments about why Maharaji has to live like a king in order to spread knowledge, I still think I have the better of the argument at this point. Have anything more to add? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:04:32 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: It could happen to you To: Everyone Subject: Help! I'm being erased! Message: As an April Fools joke I posted a few posts as Katie, Anon, Mili and Chris. I even posted some 'Jim' posts for authenticity. This was all under Anon's question about his own pomposity vis-a-vis Vacol's. So what happens? Little Ms. ASSISTANT here eradicates every one of them! Now, is that fair? I'm looking for a Fair-Minded Assistant Web Master, please. The only reason I care is that I think I did a good job spoofing you guys and now it's all for not. Come on, Katie, can't you put them back up with asterix's or something? Or have you already submitted them to the Interpol? (The best one was Chris - g) Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:07:25 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: As an April Fools joke I posted a few posts as Katie, Anon, Mili and Chris. I even posted some 'Jim' posts for authenticity. This was all under Anon's question about his own pomposity vis-a-vis Vacol's. So what happens? Little Ms. ASSISTANT here eradicates every one of them! Now, is that fair? I'm looking for a Fair-Minded Assistant Web Master, please. The only reason I care is that I think I did a good job spoofing you guys and now it's all for not. Come on, Katie, can't you put them back up with asterix's or something? Or have you already submitted them to the Interpol? (The best one was Chris - g) Jim Sorry, Jim, totally verboten to post under other people's names, especially when you are so GOOD at it. Remember Lord Jim III? BTW, what is your e-mail address? Is this a secret or something? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:40:02 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: heller@bc1.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: As an April Fools joke I posted a few posts as Katie, Anon, Mili and Chris. I even posted some 'Jim' posts for authenticity. This was all under Anon's question about his own pomposity vis-a-vis Vacol's. So what happens? Little Ms. ASSISTANT here eradicates every one of them! Now, is that fair? I'm looking for a Fair-Minded Assistant Web Master, please. The only reason I care is that I think I did a good job spoofing you guys and now it's all for not. Come on, Katie, can't you put them back up with asterix's or something? Or have you already submitted them to the Interpol? (The best one was Chris - g) Jim Sorry, Jim, totally verboten to post under other people's names, especially when you are so GOOD at it. Remember Lord Jim III? BTW, what is your e-mail address? Is this a secret or something? Come on, Katie, it's jsut that I tricked you at first, isn't it? (personally, I intended to reveal my true nature and April Fools it all soon enough. I agree that we shouldn't really screw around with indentity here, Mili) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:56:36 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: What, Jim? I can't believe you gave Robyn a hard time about her one typo! Brian will probably fire me now, but I did what I thought was right. If you want to post fake rebuttals to someone's post, you should do them to one of YOURS! Fondly, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:51:15 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Ha Ha Ha ! Absolutely Classic! Love it! I would love to see those others.Please send them to me Jim. It may make you feel happier to see that one of your impressions (mine of course) slipped past the guards and remains horribly and shamefully down below. I even had the embarrasing pomposity to respond! Oh death! Envelop me now! I deserve it though. I made a great fool of someone yesterday myself and was prematurely gloating that no-one had got me! As I read it it occurred to me that the impression was a clever conception and might have indeed been scribbbled from your witty pen ..er..keyboard. Because I read it on April 2nd you had a head-start on me. I fell for it completely. Roll on next April 1st..Watch out Mr J. Heller! Imp of the Perverse indeed! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:21:40 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Katie Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: If you want to post fake rebuttals to someone's post, you should do them to one of YOURS! And sign them Jim. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:43:49 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Jim., Yesterday I said happy april fools day in a post and John K asked what I had up my sleeves and I replied maybe I'd post as Mili. I was just joking but didn't realize it was a no no. So glad it was you and not me who did it as I try to keep a low profile. BTW, Katie, I think we'd like to see them can they be marked so we can read them just for fun? Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:47:18 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Katie, If you want to post fake rebuttals to someone's post, you should do them to one of YOURS! Now that would be FUN! Jim, Hope you weren't to hard on me for the typo Jim, I haven't yet seen that post. If you only knew how many typo's I catch while I'm typing. I type pretty fast but very inaccurately! But then that's not what they pay me for. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:52:10 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Brian Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Here's another direct quote: One day, not know but one day, years from now, maybe even decades, I will still want your money but not as much as I do now. That, dear premies, will be the beginning of your retirement plan. Until then, trust me. Trust me to do what I think is right. After all, if I wanted any advice, I'd ask for it, right? Yes, I am the same as you and that's why you should give me just a little more money. After all, who else will you give it to? Some total stranger. Someone who's going to come up behind you with a bullet gun and rob you blind? Someone who will drag you into an alley and may say all sorts of mean things to you? Someone who DOESN'T speak the language of the heart? See, dear premies, and this is a true point -- I'm not afraid to say this -- at 9:00 sharp I will turn on the television and eat a sandwhich. I will then have a little drink and start calling old classmates from St. Joseph's Academy. I will then call my secretary and ask her to show me some of the funnier cards and letters we received from premies from ALL OVER THE WORLD. I should also say, and this is something I've been talking with Michael about, but I think it's time I let you guys in on it. I'm looking for a little land where we could really open up and share. My plan is to let you buy it for me and then to charge you everytime you come there. Right now, though, I'm going to go. Maybe Mahatma Ji can sing you a song about me. I want to watch tv and have a sandwich. Mark my words, at 9:00 I will start watching.' This is another piece of garbage that was conjured out of thin air yesterday by Jim, the resident psychopath. Boy, it sure sheds some light on the rest of the 'evidence' that you have on your site! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:01:51 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Mili, That was a bit of levity, humor, didn't it make you smile? Do you really think ANYONE took it seriously. Really Mili, just let a tiny bit of that joy inside you out. I know we can't see you but I can sence people's moods through their writing also and you seem overly critical. Which also lessens your creditability. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:16:58 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Mili: RE: Boy, it sure sheds some light on the rest of the 'evidence' that you have on your site! Calm down! It was April Fools. From your hyperbolics yesterday you apparently know zip about this custom. You're inability to take a joke is losing your audience (such is it was) big time. As though it wasn't clear to everyone that the passage was fabricated. I once had a girlfriend who got a fortune cookie containing the fortune 'You will receive a declaration of affection through the mail today.' She was totally impressed and excited by how specific the fortune was, and was prepared to believe that fortune cookies have some mystical and magical powers. It escaped her notice that we were dining out on Valentine's Day. If you want her phone number I can supply it. I think you are soul mates. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:16:11 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn, Jim, et al. Subject: Re: Help! I'm being erased! Message: Hi Robyn and everyone - I am sorry to play the heavy here, but it's really important that people don't post under other people's names. One of the last times this happened, someone posted some violent threats under Jim's name and we didn't realize it wasn't Jim until Jim told us. I know that Jim was just trying to have fun (and I can't get the posts back from Paradise - sorry!), but his posts were realistic enough to fool people, IMHO. When these things get into the archives they can really confuse people. One of the reasons we haven't had to password protect the forum so far is because people haven't tried to do this very much. Anon, I am assuming from your reaction that you don't want the false post under your name removed (fooled me too! You and Jim are capable of the same type of verbal pyrotechnics.) Mili, the M imitation was posted under Jim's name and I think is an obvious parody so won't remove that either. Regards, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:47:44 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Robyn Subject: The best one was 'CD' (Re: Help! I'm being erased!) Message: Jim., Yesterday I said happy april fools day in a post and John K asked what I had up my sleeves and I replied maybe I'd post as Mili. I was just joking but didn't realize it was a no no. So glad it was you and not me who did it as I try to keep a low profile. BTW, Katie, I think we'd like to see them can they be marked so we can read them just for fun? Robyn Yesterday I impersonated Anon ('why do you think I was trying to be funny?'), Katie ('oh shit! Now I've done it! SORRY!), Mili (Hey, Anon, all you guys are dicks, swimming in a cesspool labelled 'jerks only, all others will be persecuted' ') and Chris. The best one was Chris. After a viscious 'fight' between Anon, Katie and ME -- chiming in to tell Anon to chill out a bit -- I had Mili ask Anon if he could now see how much we're all assholes and ask him if maybe it wasn't time for him to 'get out the old baragon and take a walk on the sunny side of the street, for a change. Afer all,' 'Mili' said, 'he could always dive back into the dirty water with those dickheads at a moment's notice.' Then I had Mili ask him if he ahd any good new age music 'for the chicks -- wink, wink.' To which I had 'Chris' reply something along the line of: 'I like new age music. I like Hendirx's version of 'All along the Watchtower' better than Dylan's. - g' I was planning to confess. No, I did confess. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 15:40:57 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: The best one was 'CD' (Re: Help! I'm being erased!) Message: Jim., Yesterday I said happy april fools day in a post and John K asked what I had up my sleeves and I replied maybe I'd post as Mili. I was just joking but didn't realize it was a no no. So glad it was you and not me who did it as I try to keep a low profile. BTW, Katie, I think we'd like to see them can they be marked so we can read them just for fun? Robyn Yesterday I impersonated Anon ('why do you think I was trying to be funny?'), Katie ('oh shit! Now I've done it! SORRY!), Mili (Hey, Anon, all you guys are dicks, swimming in a cesspool labelled 'jerks only, all others will be persecuted' ') and Chris. The best one was Chris. After a viscious 'fight' between Anon, Katie and ME -- chiming in to tell Anon to chill out a bit -- I had Mili ask Anon if he could now see how much we're all assholes and ask him if maybe it wasn't time for him to 'get out the old baragon and take a walk on the sunny side of the street, for a change. Afer all,' 'Mili' said, 'he could always dive back into the dirty water with those dickheads at a moment's notice.' Then I had Mili ask him if he ahd any good new age music 'for the chicks -- wink, wink.' To which I had 'Chris' reply something along the line of: 'I like new age music. I like Hendirx's version of 'All along the Watchtower' better than Dylan's. - g' I was planning to confess. No, I did confess. Jim, The truth is, I HATE new-age music. Boring. I like classical (Indian and European), jazz (I have a huge collection of CDs) and the Rolling Stones. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:46:01 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Everyone Subject: Thugs and cultural relativism. Message: Everyone: When I posted this response to Vacol's 'chapter' on cultural relativism as an apology for Maharaji's behavior I promised to ask my roommate his opinion. Regarding: In India,especially among the Hindu majority, the idea of the Sat-Guru, the Avatar, the Enlightened one...is common place. Response: If this is true I guess it explains why impersonating God has become the equivalent of operating a tow truck. But, my roommate is Indian... I'll ask him. My roommate thought this business about Avatar's being commonplace, quite amusing. Our English word 'thug' comes from a Hindi word that's spelled exactly the same, but is pronounced differently and has a slightly different meaning. A 'thug' (pronounced 'tugg') is accurately translated into English as 'con artist' or someone that 'dupes' another out of their money through trickery or deceit. The common, or conventional term for 'God impersonators' of this ilk is 'thug.' Revelations about the way many of these people not only deceive and cheat the aged and poor out of their money, but are responsible for rapes, kidnappings, and other more direct crimes are subjects addressed by a wildly popular TV personality named 'Rajni.' I wonder if we ought to have a talk with her about BBJ, or as he is now known Santpal Rawat. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:58:03 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Thugs and cultural relativism. Message: Hey, teacher, I know! I know! The thuggies were gangs that went around beating up false gurus and their followers, sometimes killing them. No shit! Look it up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:10:30 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Thugs and cultural relativism. Message: Hey, teacher, I know! I know! The thuggies were gangs that went around beating up false gurus and their followers, sometimes killing them. No shit! Look it up. Uh oh... Do you see it coming? I see it coming. Two meanings: 1: [Hindi thag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthagah, a cheat, from sthagati, sthagayati, he conceals.] 2: One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India. Same word for the bad guys on both sides. Interesting cultural comment. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |