Ex-Premie.Org

Forum II Archive # 12

From: Mar 28, 1998

To: Apr 4, 1998

Page: 3 Of: 5


VP -:- Joining Elan Vital -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:06:28 (EST)
___John K. -:- the last laugh -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:16:45 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: the last laugh -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:30:45 (EST)

Jim -:- Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:13:32 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:23:20 (EST)
___Jim -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:27:38 (EST)
___John K. -:- From high speed train to diner car -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:54:54 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: From high speed train to diner car -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:08:14 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:30:21 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:54:32 (EST)
___John K. -:- We oughtta make a film! -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:10:58 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:57:35 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Last night we were talking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:44:17 (EST)
___Jim -:- Scott's clear, blatant avoidance of the power of Dawkins! -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:55:21 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Pfutzing with the crank. -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:23:56 (EST)
___eb -:- Fellini's Maharaji -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:39:00 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Lynne White -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:27:49 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Fellini's Maharaji -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:46:19 (EST)
___Katie off topic -:- Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:27:22 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:52:34 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:01:55 (EST)
___Veep -:- Re: We oughtta make a film! -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:08:08 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:17:30 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:24:41 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:33:02 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:38:29 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:20:55 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:37:38 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 23:12:15 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 23:15:11 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:56:18 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:05:38 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Veep -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:10:30 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: We oughtta make a film! -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:47:17 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:49:21 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: We oughtta make a film! -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:00:16 (EST)
___Veep -:- Re: Veep -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:04:48 (EST)
___John K. -:- Fellini GurujiCON -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:38:58 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Fellini GurujiCON -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:43:32 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:10:15 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Fellini GurujiCON -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:13:57 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Fellini GurujiCON, with apologies to Andy -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:07:52 (EST)
___eb -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:04:36 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Women on the forum -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:23:07 (EST)

*Vacol* -:- *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 08:38:31 (EST)
___Jim -:- Are premies even FIT for publication? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 09:32:25 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Are premies even FIT for publication? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 09:57:44 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:00:06 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:04:17 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:36:18 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:14:29 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- My criticism -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:37:13 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:09 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:34:20 (EST)
___Jim -:- Oh, Anon, you're too modest -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:47:32 (EST)
___anon -:- Re: Oh, Anon, you're too modest -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:05:03 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:28:53 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:36:40 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:35:49 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:36:50 (EST)
___Jim -:- Chill out, Anon -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:39:29 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:42:05 (EST)
___Jim (for real) -:- Re: Jim, stop posting posts under other people's names -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:08:09 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: *My Testimony* -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:19:38 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Chill out, Anon -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:29:34 (EST)
___Brian -:- Oh great - an Australian OP... -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:35:24 (EST)
___Robyn -:- New Age Music-off topic -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:19:09 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: It was Jim -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:44:36 (EST)

Brian -:- Off Topic - Writer seeking information -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 07:00:13 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:16:18 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:34:33 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:16:48 (EST)
___seymour -:- Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information -:- Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 04:18:56 (EST)

*Vacol* -:- *My testimony....part one.* -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 23:49:56 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: *My testimony....part one.* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:16:04 (EST)
___Out -:- Back -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:39:55 (EST)
___Jim -:- Vacol offers M an apology -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 08:56:34 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- a little bit thinking -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:07:51 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: *My testimony....part one.* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:16:17 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: *My testimony....part one.* -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:37:06 (EST)

Memphis Belle -:- Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:03:55 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: Why so many -saw the hall -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:27:36 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:34:21 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:14:55 (EST)
___Jim -:- How 'bout a Maharaji screensaver? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:33:14 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:42:38 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: How 'bout a Maharaji screensaver? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:44:29 (EST)
___Jim -:- Katie was in her mind -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:50:57 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Katie was in her mind -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:05:23 (EST)
___VP -:- Screen Saver?And it is Divine -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:12:49 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Katie was in her mind -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:18:28 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:01 (EST)
___Robyn -:- VP -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:28 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:34:15 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Screen Saver?And it is Divine -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:41:37 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:41:39 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:43:48 (EST)
___Jim -:- Re: Katie was in her mind -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:50:46 (EST)
___John K. -:- Deficient DNA -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:01:01 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Deficient DNA -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:10:14 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:25:15 (EST)
___Katie -:- I WAS (and still am) in my mind -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:30:49 (EST)
___Rick -:- Off Topic -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:33:58 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:35:12 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:42:45 (EST)
___Rick -:- Photos -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:50:31 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Photos -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:00:47 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:05:39 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:14:29 (EST)
___VP -:- The Maharaji Dream House -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:08:19 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:12:51 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:20:26 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: The Maharaji Dream House -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:24:33 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:25:34 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:32:53 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:01:07 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:12:29 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: The Maharaji Dream House -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:33:42 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: The Maharaji Dream House -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:42:18 (EST)
___VP -:- Will pay for old tunes -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:54:02 (EST)
___It's not a Barbie ad -:- Re: The Maharaji Dream House -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:57:48 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Will pay for old tunes -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:13:54 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:27:45 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Simple answer! Money needed -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 02:37:23 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:29:52 (EST)
___Robyn -:- still off topic but setting this straight -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:40:36 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:43:50 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: still off topic but setting this straight -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:44:54 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Simple answer! Money needed -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:51:22 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale? -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:04:37 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: still off topic but setting this straight -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:20:28 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: still off topic but setting this straight -:- Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:20:39 (EST)

Ken Hansen -:- Park & High Streets -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:41:44 (EST)

NV -:- Re: What DID you experience? -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:15:29 (EST)

Jim -:- The Succession -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 20:54:30 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re: The Succession -:- Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:24:38 (EST)
___the wooden -:- two-step -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:36:28 (EST)
___Jim -:- Really, Bill? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:43:06 (EST)
___rftgyuho -:- Re: Really, Bill? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:55:20 (EST)
___rftgyuho -:- Re: Really, Bill? -:- Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:55:53 (EST)



Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:06:28 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Joining Elan Vital
Message:
After all of the negative posts by you exs- I have decided to go and join Elan Vital. I mean, Maharaji is the Lord of the Universe to me and I can't wait to kiss his feet. Going to a video program tonight. Have a nice life--VP P.S. APRIL FOOLS!!! :)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:16:45 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: VP
Subject: the last laugh (Re: Joining Elan Vital)
Message:
The joke's on you brother, we were sent here by M to distract insincere seekers of truth, and we finally caught one...you!! Ho ho ho ho ho!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:30:45 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: the last laugh (Re: Joining Elan Vital)
Message:
The joke's on you brother, we were sent here by M to distract insincere seekers of truth, and we finally caught one...you!! Ho ho ho ho ho! You crack me up. I hope that you drink beer, 'cause I want to drink a beer with you sometime! Have a good one, VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:13:32 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Last night we were talking
Message:
Last night, I jammed with my girlfriend, Laurie and my friend, Nate. Afterwards, I played some of the 'Lord of the Universe' album for them. Know what? I love it. It's really good hippie devotional music. Really. And the guy's voice sounds even better now that we went past the whole punk 'bad voice' liberation thing. So we listened to 'There's a light in me, there's a light in you, too..' and 'You are my only light' and -- hey Nate, don't go yet. You've got to hear this, our premie 'Stairway to Heaven' -- 'Spread this Knowledge.' And I explained to them that as that song builds most premies would be sitting there, eyes shut, completely intoxicated with the reality of it all - the kingdom of heaven is within, we say that just because WE HAVE SEEN IT, though all your friends might turn away....' Then Laurie and I got talking. It is so clear that the purpose of life is NOT devotion but survival. Those stories M used to tell liek the one of the woman in the woods, spends her whole life cleaning, doing this or that, basically just filling in time until that magical day Rama drops in for a bowl of soup. Then, we were supposed to understand, her purpose of life was fulfilled. Wrong, fella. It just odesn't work that way. Dawkins clearly explains what's wrong with the very notion of a 'purpose' in life. The question assumes far too much. A 'purposer' to be specific. No, we've evolved as survivors, not sacrificers. That's where M and all religion is so misleading. Let's say it's perfectly wonderful to quit thinking a bit. Why not? That's what we seek out in our vacations, rest and sex life. A little break from all that mental activity. You know, I think I might even get back into meditation, the way I'm talking. The real deception is in talking ourselves and one another into believing that there's some universal consciousness insdie and without that takes care of us. That's the big lie and the one we have to watch out for. That's also M's stock and trade. M teaches that God helps those who turn their backs on the world and meditate. He teaches us that when we 'go inside' we're met with some amorphous consciousness, bigger, better and more powerful and knowing than us. That is clearly a lie. That's just Hindu hype. There's nothing inside of us but our own brains and consciousness. To the extent that M has ever led people to beleive that they DON'T have to fight for their own survival, he's been wrong. (On a personal note, I have to say M was particularly bad for me. I grew up quite spoiled. My dad had a lot of money when I was younger and, the sixties being what they were, I really never understood what effort was all about. M, then, seduced me into thinking that there was some over-Lord (him!) guiding the show. Just when I needed to learn to really think for myself and bear the consequences of my imprecision, etc., I get into a cult that inspires blind devotion and faith in a caring God who'll find me a new job when I've lost this one to go to one more program. That wasn't what I needed to 'learn' then.) And there's no extra web of consciousness in there or out there that M controls on our behalf. That's just more Hindu hype. If M had a car accident and was brain-damaged, God forbid, there wouldn't be some extra consciousness outside his brain able to steer this great 'Titanic' of a mission. When he gets drunk, if that ever happens, there's no 'Maharaji' autopilot that lets him drive safely up PCH. So, the trick is, to perhaps enjoy meditating in exactly the way M disdains: as something that a person can do just for the pleasure of relaxing from the myriad thoughts we're constantly dealing with. A harbinger to simpler times, perhaps, before we had these big, fat neocortexes, before we needed them. What do you guys think?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:23:20 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
Jim, You are just hitting them all! This is what I've believed since I first got into DLM and what, I think, David Simpkiss talks about and some others. Take it and use it for your own good. The meditation does have it's place inside us and we can tap into it and reap the benifits from our selves for our sleves! Happy April Fools! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:27:38 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
Jim, You are just hitting them all! This is what I've believed since I first got into DLM and what, I think, David Simpkiss talks about and some others. Take it and use it for your own good. The meditation does have it's place inside us and we can tap into it and reap the benifits from our selves for our sleves! Happy April Fools! Robyn Yes, it's time to look after our sleves for a change! Thanks, Jim
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:54:54 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Robyn and Jim
Subject: From high speed train to diner car (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
So Robyn, whatcha got up your sleves? Okay, so he flunked out in his role as lord of the universe, now he is a meditation teacher. At the time I knew him he was not a meditation teacher. Even though of course as a guru revealing the Knowledge of God through meditation one would think he would actually try his hand at teaching us meditation. But, he never found the time. I know this sounds blasphemous, but I think his focus was on material things. That story of the woman growing old in the woods waiting for a visit from her Master is EXACTLY why I left. It took me a few years to actually get my feet out the door but that story made me realize I was on the wrong train. Remember that story that M used to tell about all the train tracks that people ride on, seeking fulfillment in relatinships, jobs, careers, money, fame, etc. and they all dead end somewhere. And guru's train just keeps on going, just keeps on trucking (now that was a good movie, huh?). Besides being a painfully childish view of life, he had that story exactly wrong. His train was the one that was not actualy moving! That's why being on it was such a suffocating experience. there was no breeze, the train was just sitting in the desert, stuck! So I guess since so many people jumped off, without getting hurt, he has gone and renamed it something else, something more reasonable. Maybe he has converted the train car into a diner. He does not claim it's a train anymore at all, just a place to come and visit and get refreshed. Buy a few pictures, a few videos, much simpler really.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:08:14 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: John K.
Subject: Re: From high speed train to diner car (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear John, I think I should post as Mili today, what do you think? Oh but I guess I let the cat out of the bag and I am at work so I guess not. You know there is a big business, in PA at least, in turning train cars into diners. You should let him know it could be a big money maker! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:30:21 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
Jim, I agree that maharaji's direction to ignore your survival and concentrate on devotion is all wrong. Of course, what better way to learn that it's all wrong? The notion that the 'universe' will provide what you need, and that you can just sit back, is just plain stupid. On the other hand, I can't dismiss the idea that there may exist a higher power (or powers), you know, divine sort of shit, that has intelligence, intent and direction. The new age ideas that diminunize practicality and intelligence, in favor of a God that ignores all the worse qualities in people, don't disprove that there may be something divine.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:54:32 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
You shouldn't have mentioned 'Spread This Knowledge' as I go over all reminiscent, thinking about the lovely Julia back in those days. I often think that perhaps we've been shown the totally wrong approach. Satsang-service-meditation-up at 6am-sing arti-watch your mind brother-evils of the world-devotion to guru not your mind-and all that fucking crap that we got involved in. Leaving all that a long, long way away and forgetting about Maharaji and avatars and service and feet etc. - it can be quite relaxing to do some meditation especially if you're not worried about the endless stream of sexual fantasies and silly jokes that seem to come up every time I sit down. I enjoy meditation when I do it. I never try to do an hour. I personally think that if the meditation is flowing and something's happening then it's cool to sit and enjoy an extended period. But if you just can't hack it some time, what's the point in turning your head to steam trying to force something. Sometimes I wonder what meditation is? I don't think it's necessarily anything to do with God, any more than walking through an enchanted wood. If meditation is about God then it's all about God and vice verca. I think it's another aspect of myself. I can bring God into it if I want to but I can't limit Him to just meditation. He'd have to be in my friends and family too, if He's in the meditation. I think meditation is a branch of human awarness that is as normal as all the rest. There is some scientific reason why immersion into breath can bring peace. Why nectar technique releases endorphines and why a light is seen. My friend and employee, Carol, who's not a premie said she was doing some typing on the computer the other day and she suddenly saw loads of light. Scientists have done tests on people and told them to concentrate where the third eye is and many people see light. The music is a mysterious phenominon but it seems lots of people here it. I once took an antidepressent tablet wrongly prescribed for an allergy) and I heard music really loud for days. I would really welcome any serious investigation into just what is happening when people meditate. Alpha brainwaves, I know about but there's a whole lot more that is as yet unexplained. Meditation, can be very relaxing when it's taken away from all the crap. A pleasant indulgence. Gurus turn it into something else.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:10:58 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: David
Subject: We oughtta make a film! (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear St. David of the Dairy: I see a mission in your future...spread your vision and experience of meditation to the world. We could have one of those Andy Warhol type films of you sitting all day for hours guarding the fridge, and then at the climax of the film, the fridge door opens revealing the rectange of cheese and then close up of you and **instant God realization** flashes across your face as you realize the absurdity of worshipping and doing service to a guru. I'll help set up your organization here in America. Think of the market for something like this if we could just tap into the ex-premies.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:57:35 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
Jim, I believe in God but I don't connect this with sitting around all day with my eyes closed listening to my breath and forsaking other valid experiences. Like walking in the woods, running on the beach, discussing things with a friend, listening to music (even some of that old hippie devotional stuff -snicker-I like it too, Jim. Wish someone would make me a tape of some of the old stuff!) I'm with David on his meditation post above. A little is not a bad thing, but you can't turn your back on the world. One hundred years ago, when people had children, they worried about whether or not they would survive. Today, parents worry about the quality of their offspring's life more than whether or not offsprings will survive. With the advent of modern medicine and technology our society tends to think about how to best live our lives now more than how to merely survive. But survival is still important. I can't see my immigrant American forebearers thinking enlightenment was more important than getting food on the table. Some of them may have been deeply spiritual, but they got their asses out and plowed the fields rather than meditating. But then again, what the hell do I know. I don't even know what I'm talking about, right? VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:44:17 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Last night we were talking
Message:
Jim: If the objective is survival how is it that once that's secured for the time being we try so hard to improve on it? Wouldn't complete success in that objective be, well, eternal life? Why ought we to stop short of that? There is a book by Lynne White focusing on the innovations leading to the Industrial Revolution that has a fascinating story about the invention of the stirrup, and how that led directly to feudalism and the custom of fealty. The author (the title escapes me at the moment, but it's something like 'Medieval Roots of the Industrial Revolution') at one point makes the observation that most of the inventions leading to the Industrial Revolution were inspired by the search for 'perpetual motion,' a concept that made it's way to the West via India. One could make a case from this that human society, and innovation, has always been about one thing, and momentary survival is more like keeping the dishes washed. Just a thought. As you know, I'm not completely smitten with Dawkins. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:55:21 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Scott's clear, blatant avoidance of the power of Dawkins! (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Jim: If the objective is survival how is it that once that's secured for the time being we try so hard to improve on it? Wouldn't complete success in that objective be, well, eternal life? Why ought we to stop short of that? There is a book by Lynne White focusing on the innovations leading to the Industrial Revolution that has a fascinating story about the invention of the stirrup, and how that led directly to feudalism and the custom of fealty. The author (the title escapes me at the moment, but it's something like 'Medieval Roots of the Industrial Revolution') at one point makes the observation that most of the inventions leading to the Industrial Revolution were inspired by the search for 'perpetual motion,' a concept that made it's way to the West via India. One could make a case from this that human society, and innovation, has always been about one thing, and momentary survival is more like keeping the dishes washed. Just a thought. As you know, I'm not completely smitten with Dawkins. -Scott Key term in your discursive [relax, I'm not sure what I mean either] comment -- 'secured for the time being'. It's all about survival because Dakwins say so. Next?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:23:56 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Pfutzing with the crank. (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Jim: RE: Key term in your discursive [relax, I'm not sure what I mean either] comment -- 'secured for the time being'. Fair enough, but that raises an issue. No matter what you call survival there is this tension between what Louis Kelso, and possibly some others, onec called 'urgent' and 'important.' If you compile two priority lists they are often in inverse order. That's the case in my life, and in a larger sense it often seems the case for society. We appear to be attempting to find more efficient ways of taking care of the urgent, so that we can get on with the important. I guess the question will eventually be (provided we are able to secure enough liesure), what's ultimately important? Even in a purely survival sense we can get so caught up in what's urgent that by the time we get around to dealing with what's important (the heat death of waste buildup for instance) it's too late. We can get killed by what's important before we even recognize it as a problem. Keeps me awake sometimes. In the larger sense really peculiar preoccupations may have survival potential because they represent possible responses to the unseen consequences of very long term (beyond the frequency range perception of individuals) survival problems. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:39:00 (EST)
Poster: eb
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Fellini's Maharaji (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear St. David of the Dairy: I see a mission in your future...spread your vision and experience of meditation to the world. We could have one of those Andy Warhol type films of you sitting all day for hours guarding the fridge, and then at the climax of the film, the fridge door opens revealing the rectange of cheese and then close up of you and **instant God realization** flashes across your face as you realize the absurdity of worshipping and doing service to a guru. I'll help set up your organization here in America. Think of the market for something like this if we could just tap into the ex-premies. John K. Great idea! I loved the cheese story too. Quite frankly, while I was deeply involved in the premie community, I often felt like I was in an absurd play. Then again, given my dysfunctional family upbringing, the premie trip was sort of just extending and expanding the insanity I'd always known. But just imagine M dancing on stage in his Krishna costume, the ga-ga premies, palms pressed together, soulful eyes riveted in devotion, and circus music playing in the background. I might laugh until I cry. eb
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:27:49 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Lynne White (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Jim: If the objective is survival how is it that once that's secured for the time being we try so hard to improve on it? Wouldn't complete success in that objective be, well, eternal life? Why ought we to stop short of that? There is a book by Lynne White focusing on the innovations leading to the Industrial Revolution that has a fascinating story about the invention of the stirrup, and how that led directly to feudalism and the custom of fealty. The author (the title escapes me at the moment, but it's something like 'Medieval Roots of the Industrial Revolution') at one point makes the observation that most of the inventions leading to the Industrial Revolution were inspired by the search for 'perpetual motion,' a concept that made it's way to the West via India. One could make a case from this that human society, and innovation, has always been about one thing, and momentary survival is more like keeping the dishes washed. Just a thought. As you know, I'm not completely smitten with Dawkins. -Scott Jim: Sorry I couldn't remember the citation referenced in the paragraph above. It's: 'Medieval Technology and Social Change' by Lynn White, Jr. (Ocford U. Press; 1962) It's now a bit dated, but still fascinating. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:46:19 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: eb
Subject: Re: Fellini's Maharaji (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Whatever happened to the cheese? Did David eat it? Can the fate of the cheese be added to the movie?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:27:22 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: eb and Selena
Subject: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear Selena and eb - I have no idea as to the fate of the cheese (perhaps David will enlighten us!), but I did want to express my appreciation for your postings on the forum. It's been so great having women posting here. I've been posting on here for almost a year, and there have been a few other women who posted now and then, but this is really the first time that we've had a group of women - great! I like it a lot and hope all of you keep posting.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:52:34 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie off topic
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear Selena and eb - I have no idea as to the fate of the cheese (perhaps David will enlighten us!), but I did want to express my appreciation for your postings on the forum. It's been so great having women posting here. I've been posting on here for almost a year, and there have been a few other women who posted now and then, but this is really the first time that we've had a group of women - great! I like it a lot and hope all of you keep posting. Katie, Selena, eb, Robyn, et al: I second that. Sometimes the maturing (I didn't say aging) testosterone, while challenging, gets all too predictable. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:01:55 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear Selena and eb - I have no idea as to the fate of the cheese (perhaps David will enlighten us!), but I did want to express my appreciation for your postings on the forum. It's been so great having women posting here. I've been posting on here for almost a year, and there have been a few other women who posted now and then, but this is really the first time that we've had a group of women - great! I like it a lot and hope all of you keep posting. Katie, Selena, eb, Robyn, et al: I second that. Sometimes the maturing (I didn't say aging) testosterone, while challenging, gets all too predictable. -Scott Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:08:08 (EST)
Poster: Veep
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: We oughtta make a film! (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear St. David of the Dairy: I see a mission in your future...spread your vision and experience of meditation to the world. We could have one of those Andy Warhol type films of you sitting all day for hours guarding the fridge, and then at the climax of the film, the fridge door opens revealing the rectange of cheese and then close up of you and **instant God realization** flashes across your face as you realize the absurdity of worshipping and doing service to a guru. I'll help set up your organization here in America. Think of the market for something like this if we could just tap into the ex-premies. John K, I am rolling on the floor!! What a perfect subject for a Warhol-isque film. Did you ever see that Warhol movie with the guy sleeping the entire film (wasn't it entitled 'Sleep'?) Yawn, snore... I love Warhol's prints, and his early ad work (shoes, etc.) but some of those movies...SHEESH! I can't believe I sat through them. VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:17:30 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear Selena and eb - I have no idea as to the fate of the cheese (perhaps David will enlighten us!), but I did want to express my appreciation for your postings on the forum. It's been so great having women posting here. I've been posting on here for almost a year, and there have been a few other women who posted now and then, but this is really the first time that we've had a group of women - great! I like it a lot and hope all of you keep posting. Katie, Selena, eb, Robyn, et al: I second that. Sometimes the maturing (I didn't say aging) testosterone, while challenging, gets all too predictable. -Scott Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie Katie: I knew Marolyn wasn't her true identity. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:24:41 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie Katie: I knew Marolyn wasn't her true identity. -Scott You ain't just whistlin' Dixie, Scott. I never thought of that! Good grief! She used to give us females satsang about the role of women in DLM!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:33:02 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie Katie: I knew Marolyn wasn't her true identity. -Scott You ain't just whistlin' Dixie, Scott. I never thought of that! Good grief! She used to give us females satsang about the role of women in DLM! Katie: It's all a plot by the toy manufacturers to take over the world, like that Robbin Williams movie 'Toys.' Michael Eisner is behind it. Maharaji is just a dupe himself. Doesn't know Barbie (a.k.a. 'Marolyn') is in cahoots. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 21:38:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie Katie: I knew Marolyn wasn't her true identity. -Scott You ain't just whistlin' Dixie, Scott. I never thought of that! Good grief! She used to give us females satsang about the role of women in DLM! Katie: It's all a plot by the toy manufacturers to take over the world, like that Robbin Williams movie 'Toys.' Michael Eisner is behind it. Maharaji is just a dupe himself. Doesn't know Barbie (a.k.a. 'Marolyn') is in cahoots. -Scott Yeah, but do you really think 'Marolyn' (an 11 inch figure) is going to go for 'Maharaji' (a 10 inch figure)? (This is mean, I know!) Maybe she'll run off with GI Joe instead!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:20:55 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Thanks, Scott. Hope you can put up with the postings about Barbie's (Maharaji's) Dream House, and action figures, in return for less mature testosterone! Regards from Katie Katie: I knew Marolyn wasn't her true identity. -Scott You ain't just whistlin' Dixie, Scott. I never thought of that! Good grief! She used to give us females satsang about the role of women in DLM! Katie: It's all a plot by the toy manufacturers to take over the world, like that Robbin Williams movie 'Toys.' Michael Eisner is behind it. Maharaji is just a dupe himself. Doesn't know Barbie (a.k.a. 'Marolyn') is in cahoots. -Scott Yeah, but do you really think 'Marolyn' (an 11 inch figure) is going to go for 'Maharaji' (a 10 inch figure)? (This is mean, I know!) Maybe she'll run off with GI Joe instead! Katie: Personally, I think she's Michael Eisner's secret little ingenue. The question is: will LL Cool J (a.k.a. Mili) join the good guys? That's what I wanna know. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:37:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Katie: Personally, I think she's Michael Eisner's secret little ingenue. The question is: will LL Cool J (a.k.a. Mili) join the good guys? That's what I wanna know. -Scott Scott - I know you are close to my age, so you might understand this. I picture Mili more as an Ilya Kuryaktin (sp) guy (Man from U.N.C.L.E.) than as an LL Cool J type - don't you? The mysterious man from Croatia? Anyway, very funny post. Glad it's April Fool's Day so we are allowed to post all this stuff!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 23:12:15 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Katie: Personally, I think she's Michael Eisner's secret little ingenue. The question is: will LL Cool J (a.k.a. Mili) join the good guys? That's what I wanna know. -Scott Scott - I know you are close to my age, so you might understand this. I picture Mili more as an Ilya Kuryaktin (sp) guy (Man from U.N.C.L.E.) than as an LL Cool J type - don't you? The mysterious man from Croatia? Anyway, very funny post. Glad it's April Fool's Day so we are allowed to post all this stuff! Katie: Strictly speaking your have the correct characterization of Mili, but I had to think of someone to connect to the LL Cool J character in 'Toys.' Thu gung ho military perfectionist servant of the evil genious who secretly has a good heart, and is apalled at the plot that is unfolding. Of course if you haven't seen the movie this doesn't make sense. Actually, I'm not sure the movie makes any sense. Very strange flick. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 23:15:11 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Katie: Excuse me. 'The General' in 'Toys' was not really an evil genius. More like an evil, obsessive dullard.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:56:18 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Katie and Scott, I think there should be a Mili doll to steel Marolyn away! Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:05:38 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Katie, Thanks for that reminder, I was thinking somethining myself but I couldn't remember the name of the show or I. Kuryaktin, thought it might come to me in a dream tonight. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:10:30 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Veep
Subject: Veep (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Veep, Cute but not as personable as Vic don't you think! Did you ever see the movie, The Big Blue, I think it was called. This guy was a diver and in his wallet, as he showed someone pictures of his 'family' and they were all dolphins! After that we had a family meeting and if the movie didn't catch you after 1/2 hour it would be removed from the VCR!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:47:17 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Veep
Subject: Re: We oughtta make a film! (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
After the glowing face of David is revealed in the light of the fridge, we can fade to black and slowing return soft evening light, in the ashram, as the premies stand in the wake of a blisful arti, and the house mother passes around a tray of prachard (sp?), each premie takes one tiny, perfectly cubed, piece of the original cheese. (I need a life, I thought of this first thing this morning, as I was still pondering the fate of the cheese)
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:49:21 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Katie off topic
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Thanks Katie and Scott, It's been great being here. I feel so much better than I did when I posted my LB travelogue back in the beginning of January. And,thanks everyone else for putting up with me as I ride out this emotional roller coaster.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:00:16 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: We oughtta make a film! (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Hey, I like that ending. (You think you are bad off! At least you aren't writing commercials for The Maharaji Dream House.) SHEESH! VP
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:04:48 (EST)
Poster: Veep
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Veep (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Veep, Cute but not as personable as Vic don't you think! Did you ever see the movie, The Big Blue, I think it was called. This guy was a diver and in his wallet, as he showed someone pictures of his 'family' and they were all dolphins! After that we had a family meeting and if the movie didn't catch you after 1/2 hour it would be removed from the VCR! Brian actually thought of that name. I missed that dolphin one. (Thank God!) I have been known to walk out of theatres myself, but trust me, I wasn't hip enough to watch Warhol on my own- I had to do it for school.VP
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:38:58 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com
To: Selena
Subject: Fellini GurujiCON (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Wait, aren't we getting this all muddled up? (of course that's to be expected since we are now the source of confusion in 'this' world). This is supposed to be a film about David's break from the life of endless service and worship to the Guru. So, yeah, we could have everyone singing arti, but the words would have to be words that an ex would write. Where's Larkin? We need lyrics that will tell the whole story of our disenchantment and of course weave in the cheese, the train, the boat, the sharkless sea, etc. More later, gotta run.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:43:32 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Fellini GurujiCON (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Perhaps we can plagerize from 'Sailing on the Sea of Cheese' - Primus still need the train.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:10:15 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Selena, I have enjoyed your posts also and am glad being here has been of help to you. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:13:57 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Selena
Subject: Re: Fellini GurujiCON (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
To Everyone: Look at all we can accomplish when we put our heads together, Ha Ha. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 13:07:52 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Fellini GurujiCON, with apologies to Andy (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Wait, aren't we getting this all muddled up? (of course that's to be expected since we are now the source of confusion in 'this' world). This is supposed to be a film about David's break from the life of endless service and worship to the Guru. So, yeah, we could have everyone singing arti, but the words would have to be words that an ex would write. Where's Larkin? We need lyrics that will tell the whole story of our disenchantment and of course weave in the cheese, the train, the boat, the sharkless sea, etc. More later, gotta run. Actually we could do two films...The one with David and then another Warholesque movie with the exs standing out in the desert. (Everyone in sand colored robes) Nothing happening except tumble weeds blowing by. Close ups on parched lips, empty eyes,negative expressions, etc. Andy would be so proud!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 17:04:36 (EST)
Poster: eb
Email:
To: Katie off topic
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
Dear Selena and eb - I have no idea as to the fate of the cheese (perhaps David will enlighten us!), but I did want to express my appreciation for your postings on the forum. It's been so great having women posting here. I've been posting on here for almost a year, and there have been a few other women who posted now and then, but this is really the first time that we've had a group of women - great! I like it a lot and hope all of you keep posting. Thanks Katie. Just wanted to let you know that I was lurking for several months before ever posting because I was fearful of confrontation, and I certainly didn't want to be called fat! (I considered you extremely courageous during those threads of the forum). Prior to reading the Forum, I was still teetering about M. Went to Long Beach in 1996 and fell asleep during each satsang. I couldn't feel the devotion--it was like how I feel about my first husband now: I looked at M and thought 'What did I ever see in this guy?' I love the forum--it's the best anonymous group in which I've ever participated. Being a premie was like being an addict. Reading the posts here have given me a totally different perspective and freedom. Thanks to everyone who makes this possible. eb
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 20:23:07 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: eb
Subject: Re: Women on the forum (Re: Last night we were talking)
Message:
dear eb, Thanks very much for your post - I'm really glad you are actually here and not lurking anymore! Also, thanks for the 'courageous' compliment. I hated being called 'fat' (I'm sure you read my posts about why). I think it's a good way to make most western women over the age of 6 feel insecure, by the way, no matter HOW much they weigh! It makes me feel good that you've gotten so much out of the forum. Thanks very much for saying so. (Brian would thank you too, if he had time to read the forum!) I have really liked your posts, and hope you keep on posting. Regards from Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 08:38:31 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol*
Email: *golddiva@wire.net.au*
To: *Everyone*
Subject: *My Testimony*
Message:
*Perhaps M's earlier , more naive remarks, especially from the 1970's and early 80's, gave a wrong and a bad impression, but what value is there in regurgitating these words in the name of criticism? Especially by expremies who left D.L.M. years ago. If there is a need to be constructively critical, surely it should be directed and more recent times...at least from the mid-80's, when M changed direction. Before I venture into a critical examination of my own, I would like to share the perception that M is dealing with a very large and complex situation....a type of loosely knit global empire.....hundreds of thousands of people world-wide ,involved or interested to one degree or another, interfacing with many local, national and international organizations, finacial and legal complexities, travel , actually showing people K , having to guide the inner circle helping him ; it is a Titanic of an enterprise , a Titanic of a ship he steers and captains.....and that is because he has a vision so global, so vast, for better or for worse, it would seem. Perhaps there is a downside to so large a vision, because of the very vastness involved.....but I can appreciate the difficulty that this poses for M....at least to some degree. If M's personality appears to be overly powerful or to some even tyrannical or megalomaniacal...then perhaps one should step back for a moment and consider that maybe only a personality of the most self assured and solid calibre could successfully captain such a ship.He couldn't fake something this big for so long.His authority is simple yet so real. Another criticism aimed at M , is that he has over-evaluated himself , his role as master and K too. This I feel needs careful scrutiny. It certainly seems that sometimes M claims or infers that he is the ONE for this age...and it seems that a lot of premies do believe this to be true. Perhaps the fuller rationale would be that M is the most powerful, authentic and productive living Master. M , to my knowledge has not actually said as much.....but many premies seem to believe something like that.....and M doesn't seem to discourage this. Maybe when M was younger he helped to fuel such notions. Slightly less damning is the accusation that M encourages a personality cult. In my next forum contribution I would like to put these claims under the microscope and hopefully the macroscope. But I would end this 'chapter' by suggesting that we individually ask .....'is it possible that there is some truth to the perception that Maharaji is in many fundamental ways 'the ONE authority of our times who can facilitate a positive evolutional shift in human consciousness on a large scale?'
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 09:32:25 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Are premies even FIT for publication? (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
*Perhaps M's earlier , more naive remarks, especially from the 1970's and early 80's, gave a wrong and a bad impression, but what value is there in regurgitating these words in the name of criticism? Especially by expremies who left D.L.M. years ago. If there is a need to be constructively critical, surely it should be directed and more recent times...at least from the mid-80's, when M changed direction. Before I venture into a critical examination of my own, I would like to share the perception that M is dealing with a very large and complex situation....a type of loosely knit global empire.....hundreds of thousands of people world-wide ,involved or interested to one degree or another, interfacing with many local, national and international organizations, finacial and legal complexities, travel , actually showing people K , having to guide the inner circle helping him ; it is a Titanic of an enterprise , a Titanic of a ship he steers and captains.....and that is because he has a vision so global, so vast, for better or for worse, it would seem. Perhaps there is a downside to so large a vision, because of the very vastness involved.....but I can appreciate the difficulty that this poses for M....at least to some degree. If M's personality appears to be overly powerful or to some even tyrannical or megalomaniacal...then perhaps one should step back for a moment and consider that maybe only a personality of the most self assured and solid calibre could successfully captain such a ship.He couldn't fake something this big for so long.His authority is simple yet so real. Another criticism aimed at M , is that he has over-evaluated himself , his role as master and K too. This I feel needs careful scrutiny. It certainly seems that sometimes M claims or infers that he is the ONE for this age...and it seems that a lot of premies do believe this to be true. Perhaps the fuller rationale would be that M is the most powerful, authentic and productive living Master. M , to my knowledge has not actually said as much.....but many premies seem to believe something like that.....and M doesn't seem to discourage this. Maybe when M was younger he helped to fuel such notions. Slightly less damning is the accusation that M encourages a personality cult. In my next forum contribution I would like to put these claims under the microscope and hopefully the macroscope. But I would end this 'chapter' by suggesting that we individually ask .....'is it possible that there is some truth to the perception that Maharaji is in many fundamental ways 'the ONE authority of our times who can facilitate a positive evolutional shift in human consciousness on a large scale?' Vacol, I hope you know that Brian's funds are limited and your excellent article might not earn you the compensation you clearly deserve. Have you considered submitting your thoughts to some more established journal? I know that 'Monster Trucks' is always looking for good work. Your first point above is well-made. M did indeed force-feed us numberous concepts. Lest we resist he warned us to 'leave no room for doubt in our mind[s]', 'always have faith in God' and avoid grains of salt..... but then I AM regurgitating, aren't I? You're absolutely right in questioning what use any of this old minutiae matters today. Really, if YOU don't talk about it, and WE don't talk about it, and HE doesn't talk about it, well, that takes care of that, doesn't it? Ah, if only every problem was so easy to fix! I think you've hit upon a perfect solution to those who insist on some 'constructive crticism': a self-imposed 'Statute of Limitations', so to speak. Why NOT just pick things up after M 'changed direction' as you say? It's a little easier and, after all, requires less paint. That you yourself only got involved at that time is an interesting coincidence but clearly nothing more. I've always thought a man should look no further than his own nose in matters historical. After all, the past is a big, dark place. Poke around and you never really know what you'll find. I, too, wonder how people question M's natural ability to lead. Like you say, he has 'successfully' captained an amazing ship (unlike others less kind or serious, I find nothing humourous in your comparison to the Titanic. Silly ex-premies might literally fall out of their chairs laughing when they read it. Believe me, Vacol, I am not one of them!) M set out on a mission years ago and who can dispute the extent to which that mission's accomplished? Why, it seems only yesterday that he first told the world that he would unite it in peace everlasting. (Please, bear with me here a bit. We have to look back just a bit to get, as the annalists say, the 'long term' historical perspective. But, save heart, it's only a minute. The point's now made. Please, follow me safely back to the eighties). So, as I say, he said it and, well look around you, what do you see? I say, like Mussolini and his trains, Hitler and his munitions factory, M might ahve stepped on a few toes along the way but, hell, people, HE GOT THE JOB DONE!! (Sorry.... I don't know why I did that. I just get a little 'mindy' sometimes. You know, frankly I lose my patience. M's done so much for so few and who here really appreciates it? Oh well, I say the Indians might really be on to something with their Kali Yuga mumbo-jumbo. Ah, but then that goes back a little far, doesn't it? Not to worry...) Your ingenious misuse of the word 'infer' is clever too. I get your point. Words ARE tricky, so why think about them overmuch? Am I right? That WAS your point, wasn't it? Besides that, I agree that careful examination of all of these matters, the 'careful'est scrutiny and what not, leads to just one possible explanation: M is indeed the most powerful, authentic and productive living Master. How astute to distingusih what M has actually said from what he allows others to think. Only mobsters, fraud artists and fugitives normally get credit for such persistent but subtle misguidance. It's time M was properly credited for 'shape shifting' (to borrow a term from Ursula LeGuin). Your final question would ahve made no sense had you not cleared such a brilliant pathway to it. But you did and I consider it unlike any other that's ever crossed my mind. 'If not Maharaji, who?' is what I also ask. Who else will lead us? Who else can, as you so graciously say, 'facilitate a positive evolutional shift in human consciousness on a large scale?' I look at the competition and find it wanting. If human beings are born to follow -- and surely that's beyond serious dispute -- who better to lead than one who has, by all accounts already been leading for several decades? That IS an excellent point, Vacol, and one i wish was made here earlier. I look forward to your next entry. What thoughtful person wouldn't? Thanks again, Jim
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 09:57:44 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Are premies even FIT for publication? (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Dear Jim, Bravo! This was some of your best work, you said it for us all. Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:00:06 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Jesus, man, get some eyeballs. >>Vacol the Vacant, wrote: Perhaps the fuller rationale would be that M is the most powerful, authentic and productive living Master. M , to my knowledge has not actually said as much.....but many premies seem to believe something like that.....and M doesn't seem to discourage this. >>But Young Jim, for the umpteenth time, quoted maharaji: 'Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion?' Oh, wait, I get it. That was in the seventies, so he really didn't say it. >>Vacol the Insidious wrote: But I would end this 'chapter' by suggesting that we individually ask .....'is it possible that there is some truth to the perception that Maharaji is in many fundamental ways 'the ONE authority of our times who can facilitate a positive evolutional shift in human consciousness on a large scale?' Are you joking? Maharaji couldn't be mayor of a small town. In twenty seven years, maharaji's mission hasn't grown at all. Or maybe has grown a tiny-tiny amount, on a global scale, and then retreated to almost nothing again. Of any of the major cults left, maharaji's is the smallest. Maybe the world will be taken over by Scientology, or the Unification Church, or the Rajneeshie Sanyasans. Almost every single person in the entire world has never even heard of maharaji. >>Vacol the Vampire wrote: He couldn't fake something this big for so long. Big? BIG? What is big? The numbers are shrinking and are certainly small in any regard, compared to the world, other organizations, or function. Function, my boy... many organizations are phenomenal in their numbers or scope because of what they do. Maharaji leads an organization that puts on little gatherings and shows videos of him, saying stupid things, over and over. Once in a while there's a big gathering at a convention center and everyone here's him say the same stupid things, in person. Even if the whole world were involved, it is an unimpressive operation, based sheerly on what simple tasks are performed; not to mention the stupidity. But maybe by 'faking something so big', you mean pretending he's God. Yes, well, you're right... it is amazing he could fake something so big for so long. But he is doing it. And you're spot on when you compare maharaji to the Titanic. Now I know how Jim got so damn annoying.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:04:17 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Vacol, I didn't respond to your post right away because I saw Jim's post below, and just as I thought he's respons said it all....almost, and better than I could of for sure, Thanks again Jim, really a work of art. My only addition is that I did not laugh when I saw your reference to the Titanic but found it poiniant and telling. I hope it is an omen for the future. Do you know the history, did you at least see the movie, which I did not but I think I know how it ends and your use of the term gives me a bit of hope that the same fate will befall the new EV! Are you unaware of the hurt M caused and continues to cause to so many not to mention the illegal activities his organization is involved in just to 'feed' his great thirst for 'the good life'. I can only hope that EV is the Titanic and soon the movie will end.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:36:18 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Rick
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Rick, Now to be fair Vacol didn't say if it was the '70's M didn't say it just that no one should consider that statement. We don't want to step on anyones toes here. I also think M could be the mayor of Dushore, PA. There is a guy I work with now whom I refer to as the evil one. He is the mayor of Dushore now and has been for years. He didn't even run this last time and they all elected him anyway. He is into control big time and since he doesn't really want the job he'd probably be glad to give it to M. These are simple country folk so they'd either take him in hook, line, and sinker or show him just how closed minded country folk can be and really give him a challenge! Now I know how Jim got so damn annoying Just what I was thinking! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:14:29 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Rick, Now to be fair Vacol didn't say if it was the '70's M didn't say it just that no one should consider that statement. We don't want to step on anyones toes here. I also think M could be the mayor of Dushore, PA. There is a guy I work with now whom I refer to as the evil one. He is the mayor of Dushore now and has been for years. He didn't even run this last time and they all elected him anyway. He is into control big time and since he doesn't really want the job he'd probably be glad to give it to M. These are simple country folk so they'd either take him in hook, line, and sinker or show him just how closed minded country folk can be and really give him a challenge! Now I know how Jim got so damn annoying Just what I was thinking! Robyn Hi Robyn, I'm guessing that if you tried to step on Vacol's toes, he'd reel them in so fast you'd slam your foot into the floor. I felt, that by his saying not to consider maharaji's divine claims from the seventies, that it was as good as denying he ever said it. I know I was being sarcastic, and that some say it's the lowest form of wit, but I just love it. Dushore, PA, huh? Yes, you're probably right. Actually, m's brother, who couldn't cut being Perfect Master, is now a minister in the Indian government. So, maharaji might have what it takes, after all.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 11:37:13 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: My criticism (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
>Perhaps M's earlier , more naive remarks, especially from >the 1970's and early 80's, gave a wrong and a bad >impression, but what value is there in regurgitating these >words in the name of criticism? Especially by expremies >who left D.L.M. years ago. He is (and his brother and instructors are) still saying so many stupid things that most of the premies are ashamed to quote. >If there is a need to be constructively critical, surely it should be >directed and more recent times...at least from the mid-80's, when >M changed direction. No devotion anymore? No Darshan anymore? Nobody is qualified to talk about him or one's own experience? What a turn! >Before I venture into a critical examination of my own, >I would like to share the perception that M is dealing with a >very large and complex situation....a type of loosely knit global empire..... >hundreds of thousands of people world-wide ,involved or interested to >one degree or another, interfacing with many local, national and international >organizations, financial and legal complexities, travel , actually showing people K , >having to guide the inner circle helping him ; it is a Titanic of an enterprise , a >Titanic of a ship he steers and captains.....and that is because he has a vision so >global, so vast, for better or for worse, it would seem. Perhaps there is a downside to >so large a vision, because of the very vastness involved.....but I can appreciate the >difficulty that this poses for M....at least to some degree. How funny! There are so many groups, dealing with volunteers too, internationally much more important and efficient. So many skilled people tried to 'help' him, sincerely, and left in total disgust. He is a lame manager. Not because he has no skills. Simply because he is unable to behave with some love and understanding. Because he behaves like many heavy drinkers. What would it show in ANY manager? >If M's personality appears to be overly powerful or to some even tyrannical or >megalomaniacal...then perhaps one should step back for a moment and consider that >maybe only a personality of the most self assured and solid calibre could >successfully captain such a ship.He couldn't fake something this big for so long.His >authority is simple yet so real. Did you read what you just wrote? Ms Sutton will have a heart attack. What would you think of any manager having that kind of personality? Autocrat? Authoritarian? Alcoholic? Where does it take his business to? >Another criticism aimed at M , is that he has over-evaluated himself , >his role as master and K too. This I feel needs careful scrutiny. He said many time he was God, even recently. You know it. Same thing about 'his' supreme knowledge! Why not take words for what they usually mean? >It certainly seems that sometimes M claims or infers that he is the ONE for this >age...and it seems that a lot of premies do believe this to be true. He claims to play master, so I had to believe what he said! >Perhaps the fuller rationale would be that M is the most powerful, authentic and >productive living Master. M , to my knowledge has not actually said as much.....but >many premies seem to believe something like that.....and M doesn't seem to >discourage this. Why? If that kind of rumor is detrimental to his guru business, or if that kind of belief for premies is detrimental to their 'realization', how come that he is not clear about the issue? >Maybe when M was younger he helped to fuel such notions. Slightly less damning is >the accusation that M encourages a personality cult. What about that hall in Long Beach, full of hundreds of his pictures? I purchased one in 96, and got it by DHL mail. What about this foot-kissing activity? What is this? >In my next forum contribution I would like to put these claims under the microscope >and hopefully the macroscope. Why don't you talk about what you've experienced during the last darshan in Amaroo? Unless you've been a part of a private one? >But I would end this 'chapter' by suggesting that we individually ask ..... >'is it possible that there is some truth to the perception that Maharaji is in many >fundamental ways 'the ONE authority of our times who can facilitate a positive >evolutional shift in human consciousness on a large scale?' Why not speak about some simple facts, like what's happening around him, how he does interact with premies and his family? There will never be ANY large scale involved. We are talking about some thousands of westerners who believed ...... whatever they've been believing, and then realized there is something wrong. This is what's the majority's opinion! Maybe we’re all wrong. Majorities can of course be abused, so many examples in today’ world. I believe in facts, reflection, open debates, not hiding what doesn’t need to be hidden, answering to questions, usual tools for good communication. Not much of this in the guru business. Anybody can see this, that’s why it’s so successful.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:09 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Everybody
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Does anyone here agree that Vacol sounds possibly even more pompous than me? I hate to cede top position to anyone but I think I am in danger of being toppled. Well done Vacol! I must say though Vacol, your inconsiderable little keyboard tappings hardly amount to 'a chapter'. Go check out the archives for some of my much lengthier dissertations to learn how to really send everyone to sleep.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:34:20 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Everybody
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Does anyone here agree that Vacol sounds possibly even more pompous than me? I hate to cede top position to anyone but I think I am in danger of being toppled. Well done Vacol! I must say though Vacol, your inconsiderable little keyboard tappings hardly amount to 'a chapter'. Go check out the archives for some of my much lengthier dissertations to learn how to really send everyone to sleep.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:47:32 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Oh, Anon, you're too modest (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Does anyone here agree that Vacol sounds possibly even more pompous than me? I hate to cede top position to anyone but I think I am in danger of being toppled. Well done Vacol! I must say though Vacol, your inconsiderable little keyboard tappings hardly amount to 'a chapter'. Go check out the archives for some of my much lengthier dissertations to learn how to really send everyone to sleep. Anon, Everyone is pompous in their own way. Your pomposity is rich and settled like fine, old scotch. Vacol, perhaps a little too eager to impress, is pompous like a FAKE, fine, old scotch.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:05:03 (EST)
Poster: anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Oh, Anon, you're too modest (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Does anyone here agree that Vacol sounds possibly even more pompous than me? I hate to cede top position to anyone but I think I am in danger of being toppled. Well done Vacol! I must say though Vacol, your inconsiderable little keyboard tappings hardly amount to 'a chapter'. Go check out the archives for some of my much lengthier dissertations to learn how to really send everyone to sleep. Anon, Everyone is pompous in their own way. Your pomposity is rich and settled like fine, old scotch. Vacol, perhaps a little too eager to impress, is pompous like a FAKE, fine, old scotch. Thank you Jim, I now feel much better about myself. Incidently what is Vacol? Is it some sort of medicine?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:28:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:36:40 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie I'd rather be called 'anxious to please ya' than to be told I'm nice but should consult my parents Hahahahahahaha! (Another April fools for ya!) BTW I would say that there is a distinct difference between 'anxious to please' and just being kind to someone when it is called for :)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:35:49 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie Dear Katie, Who said anything about laughing at myself? I surely did not. Is that what you think, that I'm laughing at myself? Listen, Ms. People-Pleaser, I have had it! I don't know who to protest to but believe me I shall. I finally expressed some lingering but believe-you-me frightening self-doubt, thinking that the issue should be dealt with fully, comprehensively, completely and properly. 'BBC' you ask? Yes, I say, BBC 1. I query the readership for their views -- am I indeed as pompous as Mr. Vacol? And you find this funny? And I am supposed to trust and respect you? You People-Pleaser? You Colonialist? You, you, you ASSISTANT?! I have been hurt in life, yes I hae Kathryn. Indeed, it is my pain, and my efforts to deny that pain (how I hate the word 'denial') that allow me to create new age music. But never have I been broadsided (if you will) so publically and SO unexpectedly! Funny? I say 'Ha!' to you. Ha and good day!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:36:50 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie I'd rather be called 'anxious to please ya' than to be told I'm nice but should consult my parents Hahahahahahaha! (Another April fools for ya!) BTW I would say that there is a distinct difference between 'anxious to please' and just being kind to someone when it is called for :) Thanks, VP. Now tell Larkin that. Actually I think he/she just chose 'anxious to please us' because it (supposedly) rhymed with 'Jesus'... Hope you've consulted your parents about your continued presence on this ex-premie forum, by the way. They might not like it if you picked up any bad habits - like saying 'Sheesh', or something....
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:39:29 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Chill out, Anon (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie Dear Katie, Who said anything about laughing at myself? I surely did not. Is that what you think, that I'm laughing at myself? Listen, Ms. People-Pleaser, I have had it! I don't know who to protest to but believe me I shall. I finally expressed some lingering but believe-you-me frightening self-doubt, thinking that the issue should be dealt with fully, comprehensively, completely and properly. 'BBC' you ask? Yes, I say, BBC 1. I query the readership for their views -- am I indeed as pompous as Mr. Vacol? And you find this funny? And I am supposed to trust and respect you? You People-Pleaser? You Colonialist? You, you, you ASSISTANT?! I have been hurt in life, yes I hae Kathryn. Indeed, it is my pain, and my efforts to deny that pain (how I hate the word 'denial') that allow me to create new age music. But never have I been broadsided (if you will) so publically and SO unexpectedly! Funny? I say 'Ha!' to you. Ha and good day! Anon, What's got into you? Obviously Katie didn't mean any harm. She never does. Look, you really are putting Vacol to the test with your whining here. Go buy a keyboard or somthing, will ya'? Sincerely (more than Mili would be anyway) Jim
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:42:05 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Sir Anon - I bow before such extreme pompousness. What can I do but resubmit my original post: 'At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your [second] post is great.' Regards from Ms. Kathryn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:08:09 (EST)
Poster: Jim (for real)
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Jim, stop posting posts under other people's names (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Totally uncool, and unbecoming to you, too. Not at all, A classic April Fool's joke. Don't be so pompous! :) Jim
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:19:38 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: *My Testimony*
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie Dear Katie, Who said anything about laughing at myself? I surely did not. Is that what you think, that I'm laughing at myself? Listen, Ms. People-Pleaser, I have had it! I don't know who to protest to but believe me I shall. I finally expressed some lingering but believe-you-me frightening self-doubt, thinking that the issue should be dealt with fully, comprehensively, completely and properly. 'BBC' you ask? Yes, I say, BBC 1. I query the readership for their views -- am I indeed as pompous as Mr. Vacol? And you find this funny? And I am supposed to trust and respect you? You People-Pleaser? You Colonialist? You, you, you ASSISTANT?! I have been hurt in life, yes I hae Kathryn. Indeed, it is my pain, and my efforts to deny that pain (how I hate the word 'denial') that allow me to create new age music. But never have I been broadsided (if you will) so publically and SO unexpectedly! Funny? I say 'Ha!' to you. Ha and good day! I don't know who wrote this (above) but I'm afraid to say that it wasn't me! My imposter certainly gave me a good laugh though! I thought he (she) did a remarkably good job though I'm slightly puzzled at why they took the trouble. Just to let you know Katie that I could never accuse you of being a 'Colonialist', 'Assistant' or 'People-Pleaser'.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 05:29:34 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Chill out, Anon (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Dear Anon, At the risk of being called 'anxious to please ya', I would submit that pompous people generally don't know how to laugh at themselves. You obviously do. Your post is great. P.S. I'm clueless about the name Vacol - cold medicine, a new anti-depressant, an alien, an anagram? Regards from Katie Dear Katie, Who said anything about laughing at myself? I surely did not. Is that what you think, that I'm laughing at myself? Listen, Ms. People-Pleaser, I have had it! I don't know who to protest to but believe me I shall. I finally expressed some lingering but believe-you-me frightening self-doubt, thinking that the issue should be dealt with fully, comprehensively, completely and properly. 'BBC' you ask? Yes, I say, BBC 1. I query the readership for their views -- am I indeed as pompous as Mr. Vacol? And you find this funny? And I am supposed to trust and respect you? You People-Pleaser? You Colonialist? You, you, you ASSISTANT?! I have been hurt in life, yes I hae Kathryn. Indeed, it is my pain, and my efforts to deny that pain (how I hate the word 'denial') that allow me to create new age music. But never have I been broadsided (if you will) so publically and SO unexpectedly! Funny? I say 'Ha!' to you. Ha and good day! Anon, What's got into you? Obviously Katie didn't mean any harm. She never does. Look, you really are putting Vacol to the test with your whining here. Go buy a keyboard or somthing, will ya'? Sincerely (more than Mili would be anyway) Jim Jim, that post was from an 'Imp of the Perverse' who was pretending to be me. Believe me...I am very sensitive about accidently upsetting Katie and whoever wrote that post presumably was aware of that. I think this is the first time someone has actually pretended to be me.Strange. To 'Whoever you-are': 'Stop it! You naughty naughty little person'
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 08:35:24 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Oh great - an Australian OP... (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Vacol wrote to me asking where (s)he could post on ongoing series of contributions. I guess I can stop work on the new wing meant to house his insightful contributions. Give it up, Anon. This guy's got you eating his dust. And I say this while being buried up to my big ears in Journeys' chapters. The king is dead, long live the king.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:19:09 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Anon
Subject: New Age Music-off topic (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Anaon, et al, A friend gave me a great new age tape he copied for me and of course I've lost it and want to get the CD but all I can remember is part of the name....???? Solus Universalis. Any one know it? It is supposed to have tones or notes or something that are phisically healing. I took to it immediately and LOVE to listen to it Blaringly loud. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:44:36 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re: It was Jim (Re: *My Testimony*)
Message:
Jim, that post was from an 'Imp of the Perverse' who was pretending to be me. Believe me...I am very sensitive about accidently upsetting Katie and whoever wrote that post presumably was aware of that. I think this is the first time someone has actually pretended to be me.Strange. To 'Whoever you-are': 'Stop it! You naughty naughty little person' It was Jim! I didn't even catch that one! By the way, I didn't take offense when I thought it was you - just figured it was an April Fool's joke. I guess if people want to read Jim's impersonations, they can read this one...Paradise ate the other ones.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 07:00:13 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Off Topic - Writer seeking information
Message:
This was in my mailbox this morning. Maybe someone here can offer this person some help. As a journalist I’ve done research on numerous cults. However, I have been unable, thus far to get any information on one of the oldest cults ever-—the Self Realization Fellowship (Yogananda). If any of you have had any personal experiences, or can steer me towards some 'insider' knowledge of this group and/or its followers for a curruent book project, please contact me. Wil Runyon gwangi@earthlink.net
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:16:18 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information
Message:
This was in my mailbox this morning. Maybe someone here can offer this person some help. As a journalist I’ve done research on numerous cults. However, I have been unable, thus far to get any information on one of the oldest cults ever-—the Self Realization Fellowship (Yogananda). If any of you have had any personal experiences, or can steer me towards some 'insider' knowledge of this group and/or its followers for a curruent book project, please contact me. Wil Runyon gwangi@earthlink.net Well, I was once infatuated with an SRF follower, and I know they use a similar meditation. I can't recall the name of the person I knew, however. My memory from that era is just awful. Perhaps I was meditating too much. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 12:34:33 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information
Message:
Scott, I too have bad problems with memory from those times. I wonder if that's common with cults? I have forgotten things that, once reminded, I know I should have kept in memory because they really were important to me. My Uncle was into SRF. He lent me a tape once (it was actually reel to reel). Yogananda spoke a lot about light and light meditation. That's all I remember :-)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:16:48 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information
Message:
My wife and I checked-out SRF once, and she even took some of their classes. I read one lesson and I said, 'no;' just Yogananda's idea of a scientific practice was too goofy for me. It probably was scientific for a 19th century rural Indian, but it sure didn't hold up to 20th century standards. My wife still gets mail from them; they find us everywhere, just like the publisher's clearing house.
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Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 at 04:18:56 (EST)
Poster: seymour
Email:
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Off Topic - Writer seeking information
Message:
I sent of for all the info once, to San Franscisco I think, and had a friend who practiced the techniques which are virtually identical to knowledge. Very similar attitude towards their guru, who was regarded as the incarnation of the supreme being on earth, but a little more formal and disciplined in the life style. Autobiography of a Yogi is a wild read.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 23:49:56 (EST)
Poster: *Vacol*
Email: *golddiva@wire.net.au*
To: *Everyone*
Subject: *My testimony....part one.*
Message:
*This is my first entry.I am male,49,and live in Australia. I received K in 1982 and still meditate. There is a lot I'd like to contribute to these ongoing debates , but my feeling is to express a little at a time. Finding this ex-premie site and reading most of the material here has challenged and inspired me....especially in regards to my thoughts and feelings about M , E.V and K...but I feel the entire situation is really quite complex. Much of the criticisms I've read seem petty and narrow , but some of them are also worthy of serious consideration ; and I certainly do have criticisms of my own. There is a need to try and get as big a picture as possible. It seems that M has adapted and adopted a type of traditional Indian Spiritual 'movement' to universal (GLOBAL) standards. In India,especially among the Hindu majority, the idea of the Sat-Guru, the Avatar, the Enlightened one...is common place. In the West, we have a very different cultural-spiritual history and education. The norm for the Western trained and influenced mind tends towards beliefs in spiritual authority mainly within the context of organised religion....and even then there is a need to perceive a type of hierachy which is well defined along familiar lines. At the top of this pyramid sits the Pope or High Priest....a type of ordained representitive, but definately not god incarnate......more a messenger and interpreter of religious scripture and ethics. In the East, especially for Hindus, the emphasis is towards accepting spiritual authority on the basis of Self-realisation and a inner merger with the Divine. In the West, God is still largely perceived as a Force that exists mostly outside of oneself ; it is a matter of faith and a type of theological projection......God is the Creator, and the messengers, (ie=Jesus)are unique examples 'of the word made flesh'....but to ordinary mortals like you and I, born from 'sin', God is essentially outside. By contrast , in the Hindu East, God (Brahma....or ParaBrahma) is more likely to be perceived as inside as well as outside ; indeed as the inner source of Divinity....and therefore, the Guru is also perceived as one who has become at-one with the Divine ...and less open than in the West to the interpretation that the Guru is a type of tyrannical, megalomaniacal ego-trip. I am not expressing this in order to take sides , but rather to point out that as individuals our perceptions of M can be so coloured by our own cultural backgrounds. Personally I believe that M strives for a universal and in a sense , culturally neutral position.....after all , our common bond is as a humanity. What I also feel, is that it is natural for M to experience and perceive Divinity within than us Westerners who have been strongly influenced otherwise. My next entry will focus more on my personal experience , but it felt appropriate to introduce myself with these general considerations.That's enough for now. I shall follow this up soon and in the meantime welcome any comments from anyone.*
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:16:04 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Re: *My testimony....part one.*
Message:
Vacol: Regarding: In India,especially among the Hindu majority, the idea of the Sat-Guru, the Avatar, the Enlightened one...is common place. If this is true I guess it explains why impersonating God has become the equivalent of operating a tow truck. But, my roommate is Indian... I'll ask him. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:39:55 (EST)
Poster: Out
Email: bb
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Back (Re: *My testimony....part one.*)
Message:
feel free to read the 'for NV NV NV ' post.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 08:56:34 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Vacol offers M an apology (Re: *My testimony....part one.*)
Message:
Someone who makes questionable excuses for another is an 'apologist'. Vacol, here, has begun to offer an apology, then, to Maharaji. How sweet. If M were mute, brain-damaged or lost at sea, this might be a worthwhile effort. However, M can take for himself and indeed does whenever he can set up his tent and donation boxes. I find it incredible that people are willing to try to rationalize in all these insipid ways for a guy who just hides behind empty speeches and fake question-and-answer sessions. Perhaps, Vacol, you'd like to explain the different ways we perceive character in the east and west. I'm extremely interested in your thoughts on the different cultural prejudices we bring to such concepts as: 1) honesty 2) accountability 3) candour 4) humility 5) duplicity 6) pride 7) courage I'm sure you can turn all of these concepts inside-out which, for a tired imagination like my own, will be thrilling. I guess I'd also be most interested in whether or not you believe M can ever err? If so, has he? If you get that far, please don't turn back but let us know when, where and how? Then, take another step and explain, if you will, what that does or does not reflect about his consciousness. Further entries might explore how his claims to be 'all- knowing' and 'all-powerful' comport with your findings.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:07:51 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: a little bit thinking (Re: *My testimony....part one.*)
Message:
>It seems that M has adapted and adopted a type of >traditional Indian Spiritual 'movement' to universal >(GLOBAL) standards. Adapted maybe, but he didn’t ‘adopt’ anything IMHO. He hallucinated his guru telling him to do the job. The only experience he had was one of a 6 years old child involved in a crazy family (he recalled that himself many time). He had a lot of very good reasons to do behave like this: he has always be treated as a magic divine godly child during his childhood: What was his choice? What do you mean by ‘global standards’: his standards are pretty lame if you consider the results ! More than 90% initiated people left (and keep leaving). 150,000 to 200,000 followers in India: peanuts compared to other gurus of Radhasoami/Sant Mat/Surat Shabd. And a few thousands of western followers: zero in respect to the millions of people genuinely interested in God!!! Result: zilch. Quite some gurus of the same ‘tradition’ have much better credentials. Money wise you might consider him successful, that might not last for very long: IRS might catch him sooner or later, and he might have not much left. >In India,especially among the Hindu majority, the idea of the Sat-Guru, >the Avatar, the Enlightened one...is common place. Fine. Nice seducing concept after all. I’ve visited many Hindu temples, nice places. And some genuinely honest gurus. >In the East, especially for Hindus, the emphasis is towards accepting >spiritual authority on the basis of Self-realisation and a inner merger >with the Divine. There are many ‘mystical’ groups in most of the current religions! We have the same dichotomy in the West. You accept the ‘priests’ spiritual authority, or you belong to a mystical group. >In the West, God is still largely perceived as a Force that exists >mostly outside of oneself ; it is a matter of faith and a type of >theological projection......God is the Creator, and the messengers, >(ie=Jesus)are unique examples 'of the word made flesh'....but to >ordinary mortals like you and I, born from 'sin', God is essentially outside. Most of Christians, Hindus, Muslims, whatever, will point towards the sky when you ask them where he is. It’s also said in most of religions that God is inside! >By contrast , in the Hindu East, God (Brahma....or ParaBrahma) is more >likely to be perceived as inside as well as outside ; indeed as the inner >source of Divinity.... The Hindu religion is definitely more sophisticated .... >and therefore, the Guru is also perceived as one who >has become at-one with the Divine ... many westerners have the same concept about priests, monks, the pope. >and less open than in the West to the interpretation that the Guru is a type of >tyrannical, megalomaniacal ego-trip. Many easterners have exactly the same opinion about gurus. They (and we, me) judge gurus (humans, people) according to what they do, how they behave, how they implement what they preach in their own lives. Not according to their ‘title’. If I have a serious health problem, I won’t trust just any doctor simply because he has a nice plaque on his door. Why are you bringing out this ‘megalomaniac ego-trip’ business? Why do people have that idea about him? >I am not expressing this in order to take sides , but rather to point out that >as individuals our perceptions of M can be so coloured by our own cultural >backgrounds. Like for ANYBODY or ANYTHING. WHATEVER we perceive is biased. Mr Rawat is not beyond anything, and he HAS to be treated like anybody else. >Personally I believe that M strives for a universal and in a sense , >culturally neutral position..... How could this be possible????? He is offering a devotional relationship, and he doesn’t want to say it openly to newcomers. How is this called? Being involved in a devotional relationship has nothing to do with culture. It’s a very common thing. It takes different forms in different contexts. Being neutral would involve a complete different approach, like showing freely and publicly all the whereabouts of his guru business (businesses). >after all , our common bond is as a humanity. >What I also feel, is that it is natural for M to experience >and perceive Divinity How do you know he does? >within than us Westerners who >have been strongly influenced otherwise. >My next entry will focus more on my personal experience , >but it felt appropriate to introduce myself with these general >considerations.That's enough for now. I shall follow this up soon >and in the meantime welcome any comments from anyone. As you live down under, close to Amaroo, why don’t you give us some details over the Amaroo’s financial operation. I’ve heard different rumors about who’s owning the land, how they get money for constructions, etc
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:16:17 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Re: *My testimony....part one.*
Message:
Vacol, I am comforted to see that you have criticisms and anxiously await seeing what they are. For the record I just want you to know that since is was a young child of 9 or 10 growing up in a violent and very Catholic household I rejected those western beliefs of God outside and have held on to a knowing feeling of just the opposite. As I grew and found out more about things as they are in the real world I found that to my suprize Quakers help similar beliefs in that they belive all men are equal, the begger and the Pope are sustained by the same spirit within. Then I discoverd Eastern phylosophy and that they were even more in line with my long held belief that god, the devil, are manifestations of that energy that keeps us alive and the fact that we as humans could experience that energy within. I still believe in the meditation I learned from DLM but not in the little boy who grew into a man who uses those who cherish him for his own gain and glory. Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 13:37:06 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: *Vacol*
Subject: Re: *My testimony....part one.*
Message:
It seems that M has adapted and adopted a type of traditional Indian Spiritual 'movement' to universal (GLOBAL) standards. In India,especially among the Hindu majority, the idea of the Sat-Guru, the Avatar, the Enlightened one...is common place. In the West, we have a very different cultural-spiritual history and education. The norm for the Western trained and influenced mind tends towards beliefs in spiritual authority mainly within the context of organised religion....and even then there is a need to perceive a type of hierachy which is well defined along familiar lines. At the top of this pyramid sits the Pope or High Priest....a type of ordained representitive, but definately not god incarnate......more a messenger and interpreter of religious scripture and ethics. In the East, especially for Hindus, the emphasis is towards accepting spiritual authority on the basis of Self-realisation and a inner merger with the Divine. In the West, God is still largely perceived as a Force that exists mostly outside of oneself ; it is a matter of faith and a type of theological projection......God is the Creator, and the messengers, (ie=Jesus)are unique examples 'of the word made flesh'....but to ordinary mortals like you and I, born from 'sin', God is essentially outside. By contrast , in the Hindu East, God (Brahma....or ParaBrahma) is more likely to be perceived as inside as well as outside ; indeed as the inner source of Divinity....and therefore, the Guru is also perceived as one who has become at-one with the Divine ...and less open than in the West to the interpretation that the Guru is a type of tyrannical, megalomaniacal ego-trip. I am not expressing this in order to take sides , but rather to point out that as individuals our perceptions of M can be so coloured by our own cultural backgrounds. Personally I believe that M strives for a universal and in a sense , culturally neutral position.....after all , our common bond is as a humanity. What I also feel, is that it is natural for M to experience and perceive Divinity within than us Westerners who have been strongly influenced otherwise. My next entry will focus more on my personal experience , but it felt appropriate to introduce myself with these general considerations.That's enough for now. I shall follow this up soon and in the meantime welcome any comments from anyone.* Just what ARE the 'universal (GLOBAL) standards' that M uses for his movement? I assume you are suggesting that he is trying to adapt his 'movement' to fit all cultures ('culturally neutral'). If history is any guide, he appears to be doing this by trial and error and it will likely take several centuries, and I don't think he has that kind of time. It also appears that in an attempt to do this, he might be speaking out of both sides of his mouth, or being like a politician and saying what he thinks the audience wants to hear. But I don't have much confidence that he could ever pull that off. He is too ignorant of the way people really live, and too out of touch to be too relatable to them. I think he grew up watching way too much television. In India, there is also a fairly widespread 'anti-guru' movement, given the thousands of gurus who have put up shingles there. According to these groups, Indians are routinely 'taken' by gurus, who keep people attached to them, resulting in difficulty for Indian society to move into the 20th century. And I disagree that the 'western mind' tends towards beliefs in spiritual authority. May of the American protestant religions are fiercely anti-authority and tend to favor democratically rendered decisions in each congregation, including the election of those who carry out the administration of the church on a national level. Even cherished dogma can change as a result of elections. Even the American Catholic Church, which tacitly functions under the Pope, if fairly anti-papist, at least in the ability of American Catholics to ignore dictates of the Pope if they disagree with them (birth control is a good example). And I would suggest that the 'top of the pyramid' for most christian religions is NOT a pope or other leader, it's Jesus Christ, while not currently 'incarnate,' they believe he is nonetheless present in their lives, in much the same way western premies believe Maharaji is present in theirs. Now, Maharaji IS 'incarnate' and has said contradictory things about whether he is god or not, but his actions speak much louder than his words. He does programs and has people kiss his feet and sing devotional songs to him. He can say he isn't god, which I'm sure he hasn't in 10 years, but his actions say otherwise. Moreover, the fact that he only appears in the most controlled of settings and has steadfastly refused to mingle among his devotees on any regular basis, creates much the same mindset that exists with followers of Jesus Christ. He isn't around to blow the ideal that his devotees have of him, and I think that's intentional.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:03:55 (EST)
Poster: Memphis Belle
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
At the longbeach 97 program, there was an entire Hall (about the size of a football stadium) devoted to selling EV products. Among the CD's, chocolate, coffee mugs, watches, jewelry, and many other countless items for sale, there were about 100 very nicely framed portrait pictures of M for very expensive prices. I was blown away! I felt traded! It was my first true breaking free experience, because I could not understand why there were so many! If there was maybe just one up on the wall, but there were hundreds! And I felt like there only should be one picture of him. Why the 100? They were all different in poses and gestures and expressions. I went to hear M speak about life. I didn't go to buy things. My point is this: I feel like they (whoever that is) was trying to make money off of me. I already gave my contribution at the door, isn't that enough? I didn't need any material things to remind me of K or M.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:27:36 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Memphis Belle
Subject: Re: Why so many -saw the hall (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
ahh yes, the exhibition hall. seems to me there was even a name for it. (?) I knew my days as a premie were numbered when, in 96 (went in 97 too but that's another story) in 1996 I went for the first big event for me in years, and, the 2 obsessives I was with said they were going into the 'hall' during a break and I didn't know what they were talking about. So , I asked , why? ( I wanted to go running on the beach) I remember one of them looking at me, I swear with amused tolerance, and explaining there were many pictures of M to be seen. so, idiot me, went to the hall instead of a run on the beach. The rest is history.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 22:34:21 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Memphis Belle
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
EV chocolate? Mmmmm, yummy, yummy!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:14:55 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Memphis Belle
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Memphis Belle, You are very wise to understand how little material objects mean in comparison to your soul, heart, and life. Have you ever been to a Disney Movie like 'Hercules' or 'Pocahontas' and then seen the commercialization of the images from that film everywhere? (Fast food restraunts, department and discount stores, lunch boxes, beach towels, watches, jewelry, and even action figures!!) Since EV is in the movie (or at least the program and video) business, too, some smart cookie up at EV must have made the connection to commercialize Maharaji as well. Then again, I do know premies who would have killed for a coffee mug with M on it back in the 70's. They couldn't get enough! Just like the kids with 'Hercules'. (Or Mili with his chocolate) Where there is demand...VP P.S. I just had an alarming thought...an action figure of M!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:33:14 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: VP
Subject: How 'bout a Maharaji screensaver? (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
You guys have all seen the 'dancing baby' computer video clips? Have you seen the drunken baby? How 'bout the baby dancing the macarena? Well, how cool it'd be to have a Dancing Guru clip, no? A drunken guru? A Macarena guru?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:42:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Dear VP - I'm still laughing at the thought of an action figure of M! Just imagine... You are right, it is quite alarming! You're also right that when I was a premie back in the olden days (1972-77), we had pictures of M everywhere. For example, I had an altar to M on the dashboard of my car, and most of the other premies I knew had one too. This sounds so stupid now! I don't think pictures of M cost very much money then. Most of the premies didn't have very much money, and if they did have a trust fund or something, they gave it to Maharaji lock, stock, and barrel. I recall cutting most of the pictures out of And it is Divine (a defunct premie magazine, of which we always had thousands of back issues left over). My boyfriend and I had a small business making framed collages out of pictures of M and beautiful natural scenes out of old National Geographics. We sold these at programs for about $3 to $5 apiece and the premies always bought all of them (we gave 10% of the money we made to Maharaji, of course!). This is about the level of merchandising I remember from back then. P.S. I hope no one picks up on your action figure idea! Then again...
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:44:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Jim
Subject: Re: How 'bout a Maharaji screensaver? (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
You guys have all seen the 'dancing baby' computer video clips? Have you seen the drunken baby? How 'bout the baby dancing the macarena? Well, how cool it'd be to have a Dancing Guru clip, no? A drunken guru? A Macarena guru? Jim - How much do you want to bet that there already is a Maharaji screensaver being marketed? (maybe not dancing or drunk, though.)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 14:50:57 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Katie was in her mind (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Dear VP - I'm still laughing at the thought of an action figure of M! Just imagine... You are right, it is quite alarming! You're also right that when I was a premie back in the olden days (1972-77), we had pictures of M everywhere. For example, I had an altar to M on the dashboard of my car, and most of the other premies I knew had one too. This sounds so stupid now! I don't think pictures of M cost very much money then. Most of the premies didn't have very much money, and if they did have a trust fund or something, they gave it to Maharaji lock, stock, and barrel. I recall cutting most of the pictures out of And it is Divine (a defunct premie magazine, of which we always had thousands of back issues left over). My boyfriend and I had a small business making framed collages out of pictures of M and beautiful natural scenes out of old National Geographics. We sold these at programs for about $3 to $5 apiece and the premies always bought all of them (we gave 10% of the money we made to Maharaji, of course!). This is about the level of merchandising I remember from back then. P.S. I hope no one picks up on your action figure idea! Then again... As a former ashram premie, I can tell you with some authority, Katie, that you were in your mind when you mixed gross natural 'beauty' with Maharaji's image. But maybe you knew that. You DID get your community co-ordinator's approval for this project, didn't you? Some places were just so loose!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:05:23 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Katie was in her mind (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Gosh Jim, I'm glad I didn't live in Canada! Actually the community coordinator in DC commissioned us to make a huge collage which the community then raffled off to raise money for M. Maybe John K. remembers this. It was really gorgeous (my boyfriend was very talented) & some people bought fifty or more tickets. Anyway, how could this be more sacreligious than putting your M coffee cup in the dishwasher?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:12:49 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Screen Saver?And it is Divine (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Katie, All of the premies I knew were poor, too. (But one did get me a subscription to And It Is Divine-this person said he would give me back issues, except he liked to cut the pictures out of his!) I remember that level of marketing you are speaking of-premies selling candles or rainbow stickers or those key chains with the plastic picture holder (with M inside!) Jim, At the risk of repeating myself, I was scared of the pictures/shrines of M when I was young- I thought he looked like the devil. (You know how eyes in photographs follow you when you are walking around the room?) I definately don't want him for a screen saver, but I'll bet Mili or CD would like that idea.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:18:28 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Katie was in her mind (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Who bought the collage? Wonder where it is now... Actually, I'd love to have a coffee cup with M on it. I could let my mother-in-law drink out of it when she comes to visit JUST KIDDING! Where would one find this? Hey, Mili, where do you get the chocolate? I want a coffee mug!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:01 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
VP, Hey VP, I'm here! I emailed you this morning and my email messed up again! I did save it as a word file this time though and just have to get around to re typing it. I thought maybe it was best to wait till tomorrow. You are in my thoughts though. What a laugh, the action figure. I love it. Maybe some enterprising premie here will take your advise and soon they'll be in every Wal-Mart! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:29:28 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: VP (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
VP, Hey VP, I'm here! I emailed you this morning and my email messed up again! I did save it as a word file this time though and just have to get around to re typing it. I thought maybe it was best to wait till tomorrow. You are in my thoughts though. What a laugh, the action figure. I love it. Maybe some enterprising premie here will take your advise and soon they'll be in every Wal-Mart! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:34:15 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Katie, Of course I can't remember but recently Jim or someone posted something about, ah, maybe the catalog he got the record from had other EV stuff for sale and than an odd thing about nature.... maybe the idea came from your collages. Bet you didn't think you made that much of an impression! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:41:37 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Screen Saver?And it is Divine (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
VP, I remember a group of us from the commune I lived in in PA went to a festival in Rhode Island, I think, at a college near Sleeping Giant State Park (I didn't expect to be impressed by it but there were 3 mountains that together looked very much like the head, belly and legs of a sleeping giant!). I don't know how it related or why they let us but we sold triangles made of colored poster board to wear on your head to consentrate energy, for meditation I guess that was the connection. At the commune they used them for everything, even keeping razors under one to keep them sharper. Why don't I get any big money making ideas like that now, then I could quit my day job! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:41:39 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Hi Robyn - personally I doubt that we DID make that much of an impression. It was a good idea, though. A lot of people who bought the collages were people who didn't feel comfortable having a 2 by 3 foot picture of M in their living room - the collages were more subtle. I am still laughing about those action figures, too. What 'Action' would M be doing?? Yelling, dancing, giving darshan, having his picture taken, flying his plane, driving his sports car, hanging out in his dream house in Malibu? (see, you could sell tons of accessories, too! Not to mention other action figures such as 'Durga Ji', 'Initiator', 'Instuctor', 'Premie', 'Aspirant' and, of course, 'Ex-Premie'!)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:43:48 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Hi Robyn - personally I doubt that we DID make that much of an impression. It was a good idea, though. A lot of people who bought the collages were people who didn't feel comfortable having a 2 by 3 foot picture of M in their living room - the collages were more subtle. I am still laughing about those action figures, too. What 'Action' would M be doing?? Yelling, dancing, giving darshan, having his picture taken, flying his plane, driving his sports car, hanging out in his dream house in Malibu? (see, you could sell tons of accessories, too! Not to mention other action figures such as 'Durga Ji', 'Initiator', 'Instuctor', 'Premie', 'Aspirant' and, of course, 'Ex-Premie'!)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 15:50:46 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Katie was in her mind (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Gosh Jim, I'm glad I didn't live in Canada! Actually the community coordinator in DC commissioned us to make a huge collage which the community then raffled off to raise money for M. Maybe John K. remembers this. It was really gorgeous (my boyfriend was very talented) & some people bought fifty or more tickets. Anyway, how could this be more sacreligious than putting your M coffee cup in the dishwasher? Excellent question, I'm sure, but why direct it at me? I WAS the dishwasher, more often than not. Surely you're not suggesting... No, Katie, the mind is everywhere. One of the reasons M ever had ashrams was to let people like me tell people like you all about it. But you didn't really listen then and you're STILL not listening, are you?
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:01:01 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Deficient DNA (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Sister Katie: All this stuff we are talking about here took place 25 years ago, but what is amazing is that pictures are STILL being sold. Maybe the attraction to M is genetic, you know like our sexual orientation is supposedly in our genes so this attraction to the physical form of prem rawat is something that has to be programmed into you from the beginning. I was never ever interested in his pictures. I always felt like a bad premie for not having a picture of him on my desk where I worked or in my car etc. I simply never got anything out of looking at his form on a button or on a poster, or in a picture frame. I had too much of that in being raised catholic with all the worship of saints etc. I guess that's proof that I was never sincere, huh? The only button I liked was that psychedelic one that flashed the rainbow colors when you tilted it back and forth. So who was the artistic friend and what happened to the collage? I can't believe anyone but a premie would have bought it.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:10:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Deficient DNA (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Hi John - Sam and I made the collages and the one that was raffled off went, I believe, to Jon Hess (remember him?), although I might be wrong. Whoever got it really wanted it because I think that they bought 50 raffle tickets when they couldn't really afford to. And you're right, the raffle was within the community - we didn't have to try and sell tickets door to door or anything. I personally can't remember if I ever got anything out of having pictures of M around, or wearing buttons, or whatever. You were just supposed to do it, and of course being both a premie and a teenager, which was a lethal combination when it came to conforming to some norm, I did it. I do remember that I had a hard time throwing my M pictures away when I didn't want them any more (afraid of rotten vegies, I guess.)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:25:15 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Katie, I think someone should make them all! Lets get the prototype going! I have enjoyed my day here today! I've found interesting and thought provoking topics in discussion and a lot of laughs and smiles to! Robyn
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 16:30:49 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Jim
Subject: I WAS (and still am) in my mind (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
No, Katie, the mind is everywhere. One of the reasons M ever had ashrams was to let people like me tell people like you all about it. But you didn't really listen then and you're STILL not listening, are you? Jim, I have tried to answer this question, and keep laughing (your M's speech post below is priceless, not to mention the idea of the dining car, and the action figures...) so I won't say anything except read the title of this post. Still laughing... In My Mind, Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:33:58 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Off Topic (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Sister Katie: All this stuff we are talking about here took place 25 years ago, but what is amazing is that pictures are STILL being sold. Maybe the attraction to M is genetic, you know like our sexual orientation is supposedly in our genes so this attraction to the physical form of prem rawat is something that has to be programmed into you from the beginning. I was never ever interested in his pictures. I always felt like a bad premie for not having a picture of him on my desk where I worked or in my car etc. I simply never got anything out of looking at his form on a button or on a poster, or in a picture frame. I had too much of that in being raised catholic with all the worship of saints etc. I guess that's proof that I was never sincere, huh? The only button I liked was that psychedelic one that flashed the rainbow colors when you tilted it back and forth. So who was the artistic friend and what happened to the collage? I can't believe anyone but a premie would have bought it. Does anyone remember a new age event that took place on November 11, 1991? It was called the '11:11'. According to the believers, that date was the turning point for 'love' to take over the earth. Supposedly we had all been programmed by the universe to have a deep recognition for the sequence of numbers '11:11' (the year 1991 adding up to two elevens also), so that when we saw our digital watches say 11:11 we did a double take. The actual date was resplendant with new age events all over the globe, where people pranced around in white robes to usher in the new era of love. From that date on, it was all supposed to be downhill. No kidding, this really happened.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:35:12 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
I used to cut-up pictures from AIID and make buttons and stuff. And I think that we must all admit that hanging pictures of M all over the house certainly made decorating so much easier!!! You hung the big photo over the mantlepiece, and the Wedding Photo in the hallway, a picture of Durga-ji in the kitchen, and a thousand little photos on every wall in the house! I still have my 'Guru Maharaj Ji I've Come To Bring Peace To The World!' t-shirt.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:42:45 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Hi Katie, The action figures would be great. The ex-premie could be sitting with head sunken, amidst tons of rotten vegetable (little brown pieces of broccoli, lettuce and celery). Rick
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:50:31 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Photos (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
The outstanding things I remember about photos was the little wallet-sized photo of maharaji that my sister had by her cat's food dish. Talk about insane. The other thing was the time a premie gave satsang at the Honolulu ashram about not washing your T-shirts with maharaji's image in the same washing machine as your underwear.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:00:47 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Photos (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Dear Rick, This must be a good topic because everyone is making outstandingly funny posts. Both your stories are absolutely outrageous! Wonder how many other people had pictures of M by their catfood dishes? And carefully separated the M t-shirts from the underwear before washing? Thanks for the laugh!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:05:39 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Michael, you are nuts (or in your mind) - why would you save a GM t-shirt, plus all those record albums, when there are so many needy premies who could use them? (Not to mention Jim the memorabilia collector). Seriously, do you remember if premies ever had any pictures except pictures of M in their houses? I think we were also allowed to have macrame wall-hangings and hanging plants, too. No wonder those collages were so popular...
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 18:14:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Hi Katie, The action figures would be great. The ex-premie could be sitting with head sunken, amidst tons of rotten vegetable (little brown pieces of broccoli, lettuce and celery). Rick Great idea, Rick! Obviously this person has to be represented as downcast, living in the past (i.e. the 1970's), and definitely in his or her mind. Now all we have to license someone's face and figure as the official 'ex-premie'.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:08:19 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: The Maharaji Dream House (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Hi Robyn - personally I doubt that we DID make that much of an impression. It was a good idea, though. A lot of people who bought the collages were people who didn't feel comfortable having a 2 by 3 foot picture of M in their living room - the collages were more subtle. I am still laughing about those action figures, too. What 'Action' would M be doing?? Yelling, dancing, giving darshan, having his picture taken, flying his plane, driving his sports car, hanging out in his dream house in Malibu? (see, you could sell tons of accessories, too! Not to mention other action figures such as 'Durga Ji', 'Initiator', 'Instuctor', 'Premie', 'Aspirant' and, of course, 'Ex-Premie'!) Katie, Don't forget the 'Maharaji Dream House'-just like Barbie's, only better! With lots of golden toilet seats, a large liquor cabinet, a 10 car garage, and best of all, it's very own airport. (Premies doing yardwork sold seperately.)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:12:51 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie and Mickey
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
'...when there are so many needy premies who could use them?' Hey, does Michael have all of the old Blue Aquarius and One Foundation stuff? I would love some of the old songs on tape! I would pay for these if he would make them...VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:20:26 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
'...when there are so many needy premies who could use them?' Hey, does Michael have all of the old Blue Aquarius and One Foundation stuff? I would love some of the old songs on tape! I would pay for these if he would make them...VP Michael, although an upstanding and upright man in all (most?) other ways, has confessed to a tendency to hold onto his vinyl records. So he might have what you're looking for. My sis still has a Blue Aquarius album, but it is a mess (really scratched), plus CD has first dibs on it if he still wants it.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:24:33 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: The Maharaji Dream House (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Don't forget the 'Maharaji Dream House'-just like Barbie's, only better! With lots of golden toilet seats, a large liquor cabinet, a 10 car garage, and best of all, it's very own airport. (Premies doing yardwork sold seperately.) Dear VP - I'm STILL laughing. I've got to get Brian on here to see if this stuff is really funny, or if I'm just losing it. P.S. Maybe I'm naive, but M is the only living person I know of who actually leads Barbie's purported life-style.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:25:34 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
'...when there are so many needy premies who could use them?' Hey, does Michael have all of the old Blue Aquarius and One Foundation stuff? I would love some of the old songs on tape! I would pay for these if he would make them...VP Michael, although an upstanding and upright man in all (most?) other ways, has confessed to a tendency to hold onto his vinyl records. So he might have what you're looking for. My sis still has a Blue Aquarius album, but it is a mess (really scratched), plus CD has first dibs on it if he still wants it. Okay if CD gets it, I only want a tape made of it beforehand. VP P.S. Guess I would have thought that the Hall Memphis Bell was talking about was groovy afterall-haha!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 19:32:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
'...when there are so many needy premies who could use them?' Hey, does Michael have all of the old Blue Aquarius and One Foundation stuff? I would love some of the old songs on tape! I would pay for these if he would make them...VP Michael, although an upstanding and upright man in all (most?) other ways, has confessed to a tendency to hold onto his vinyl records. So he might have what you're looking for. My sis still has a Blue Aquarius album, but it is a mess (really scratched), plus CD has first dibs on it if he still wants it. Okay if CD gets it, I only want a tape made of it beforehand. VP P.S. Guess I would have thought that the Hall Memphis Bell was talking about was groovy afterall-haha! VP - Bill Burke (bb or *,*) still has all his records too. Plus I KNOW that Jim just bought one old record from a used record place on the Internet. Not sure which one it is, though. P.S. If I had known that old Blue Aquarius albums would be so in demand, I would have bought several while they were 99 cents in the cut-out bin during the mid-seventies. There were a lot of them!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:01:07 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
'...when there are so many needy premies who could use them?' Hey, does Michael have all of the old Blue Aquarius and One Foundation stuff? I would love some of the old songs on tape! I would pay for these if he would make them...VP Michael, although an upstanding and upright man in all (most?) other ways, has confessed to a tendency to hold onto his vinyl records. So he might have what you're looking for. My sis still has a Blue Aquarius album, but it is a mess (really scratched), plus CD has first dibs on it if he still wants it. Okay if CD gets it, I only want a tape made of it beforehand. VP P.S. Guess I would have thought that the Hall Memphis Bell was talking about was groovy afterall-haha! VP - Bill Burke (bb or *,*) still has all his records too. Plus I KNOW that Jim just bought one old record from a used record place on the Internet. Not sure which one it is, though. P.S. If I had known that old Blue Aquarius albums would be so in demand, I would have bought several while they were 99 cents in the cut-out bin during the mid-seventies. There were a lot of them! Okay, okay, here's what I got: The Lord of the Universe Anand Band The Living Gospel The Apostles Blue Aquarius Blue Aquarius (horrible side II) Music for Hans Jayanti Jiva Jiva (Dark Horse Records) Jiva I am willing to swap tapes; tell me what ya got. No Dead, no Fleetwood Mac. I'm looking for stuff by the Buzzcocks, 999, Magazine, etc. Mili, your tapes are ready, but I can't get through on your e-mail. Write me tonight. mgdbach@ziplink.net
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:12:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Michael, you are a doll. I don't want any of your tapes (sorry, I hate premie music) and I don't have any that you want (more new wave than punk rock), but would you be willing to accept money for taping these albums for people? (I assume you haven't used these record for doorstops during parties, etc.) Thanks, Katie
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:33:42 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: The Maharaji Dream House (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Okay, one last take on this for me. Have you seen the commercial where GI Joe gets the sports car and pulls up to the Barbie Dream house? 'Girl, You Really Got Me' is blaring in the background. Barbie undoes her preppy hairdo and puts on her 'slut' look, jumps in the car with GI Joe leaving 'All- American Tennis Ken' alone and perplexed. I can just see OUR ad now... Fade to the Maharaji Dream House. Durga Ji is putting flowers in her hair looking in the golden mirror wearing a long flowing dress from the '70's premie fashion collection'. Our ten inch Maharaji guru doll pulls up drunken, (but that is okay because able helper PAM doll is driving the limo) Lord of the Universe is blaring. He gets out walking on flower petals to the airport where the jet is waiting. Premie dolls serving coctails. Durga Ji behind. As they fly away, the announcer says, 'Perfect Peace to you, only 79.95 while supplies last.'
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:42:18 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: The Maharaji Dream House (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Okay, one last take on this for me. Have you seen the commercial where GI Joe gets the sports car and pulls up to the Barbie Dream house? 'Girl, You Really Got Me' is blaring in the background. Barbie undoes her preppy hairdo and puts on her 'slut' look, jumps in the car with GI Joe leaving 'All- American Tennis Ken' alone and perplexed. I can just see OUR ad now... Fade to the Maharaji Dream House. Durga Ji is putting flowers in her hair looking in the golden mirror wearing a long flowing dress from the '70's premie fashion collection'. Our ten inch Maharaji guru doll pulls up drunken, (but that is okay because able helper PAM doll is driving the limo) Lord of the Universe is blaring. He gets out walking on flower petals to the airport where the jet is waiting. Premie dolls serving coctails. Durga Ji behind. As they fly away, the announcer says, 'Perfect Peace to you, only 79.95 while supplies last.' VP, pardon me for being naive, but TELL me they don't really have a Barbie commercial like that!! Please! As for the rest of it, I am still laughing! (Beware, they might recruit you to write M videos!)
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:54:02 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Will pay for old tunes (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Michael, you are a doll. I don't want any of your tapes (sorry, I hate premie music) and I don't have any that you want (more new wave than punk rock), but would you be willing to accept money for taping these albums for people? (I assume you haven't used these record for doorstops during parties, etc.) Thanks, Katie I'd throw in some cash for this. Apparently this stuff isn't available to the public via EV anymore. Too bad they haven't re-released it on CD because they could make even MORE money than they do with the coffee cups!!
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 20:57:48 (EST)
Poster: It's not a Barbie ad
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: The Maharaji Dream House (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Okay, one last take on this for me. Have you seen the commercial where GI Joe gets the sports car and pulls up to the Barbie Dream house? 'Girl, You Really Got Me' is blaring in the background. Barbie undoes her preppy hairdo and puts on her 'slut' look, jumps in the car with GI Joe leaving 'All- American Tennis Ken' alone and perplexed. I can just see OUR ad now... Fade to the Maharaji Dream House. Durga Ji is putting flowers in her hair looking in the golden mirror wearing a long flowing dress from the '70's premie fashion collection'. Our ten inch Maharaji guru doll pulls up drunken, (but that is okay because able helper PAM doll is driving the limo) Lord of the Universe is blaring. He gets out walking on flower petals to the airport where the jet is waiting. Premie dolls serving coctails. Durga Ji behind. As they fly away, the announcer says, 'Perfect Peace to you, only 79.95 while supplies last.' VP, pardon me for being naive, but TELL me they don't really have a Barbie commercial like that!! Please! As for the rest of it, I am still laughing! (Beware, they might recruit you to write M videos!) Katie, I think it's a beer ad (?) The ad is so funny that I didn't even pay attention to what they were selling. VP
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:13:54 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: Will pay for old tunes (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Michael, you are a doll. I don't want any of your tapes (sorry, I hate premie music) and I don't have any that you want (more new wave than punk rock), but would you be willing to accept money for taping these albums for people? (I assume you haven't used these record for doorstops during parties, etc.) Thanks, Katie I'd throw in some cash for this. Apparently this stuff isn't available to the public via EV anymore. Too bad they haven't re-released it on CD because they could make even MORE money than they do with the coffee cups!! I'm not sure about the rules as far as copyrights, but I don't think that I can sell tapes, as that would be bootlegging. I am willing to swap or maybe record for people who supply blank tapes. Interested parties may e-mail me at mgdbach@ziplink.net
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 22:27:45 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Robyn, If they are in every Walmart, I want royalties! I have been sharpening my video writing skills this evening and begging for old hippie devotional music, but I will look forward to email tomorrow Thanks :) VP
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 02:37:23 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Memphis Belle
Subject: Simple answer! Money needed (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Why are we looking for such esoterical answers? The answer is SO simple: MONEY. If the premies don't spend time in the photo/video hall, guess where they're going? To the pier, in the fancy restaurants, or to the beach waisting their money in useless things.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:29:52 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Rick, Would the vegetable accessory package display a warning for use by young children. We wouldn't want them to think they could eat them! Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:40:36 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: It's not a Barbie ad
Subject: still off topic but setting this straight (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Katie and VP, I thought I was the unobservant one and I don't even see TV that often but I know it is a car ad, nissan I think. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 09:43:50 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Micheal, I still have a tread bear Guru Puja T-shirt and I didn't even go to it but it is a nice T-shirt. Unfortunately I didn't know about not washing it with the underware and that is probably why it is thread bear today. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:44:54 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: still off topic but setting this straight (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Katie and VP, I thought I was the unobservant one and I don't even see TV that often but I know it is a car ad, nissan I think. Robyn Robyn, HaHa! I think you are right about it being a car ad. Actually the ad doesn't even feature a REAL G.I. Joe or Barbie, just imitations of them. (Mattel would have a field day suing Nissan) Can you tell I have young kids? Also, I loved the veggie package warning idea above. My kids would certainly try to eat them. What a fun April Fools day we had! Who could accuse us of being sour-pusses now? VP
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 10:51:22 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Simple answer! Money needed (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
Mr. Ex, 'Why are we looking for such esoterical answers?' Because it was April Fools day-just having a little fun! Of course we all know why they REALLY sell all of that stuff, VP
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 11:04:37 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?
Message:
Rick, Would the vegetable accessory package display a warning for use by young children. We wouldn't want them to think they could eat them! Robyn Robyn, Good point, definitely a warning about the vegies and also about leaving knowledge and what can happen if you do. Perhaps a couple of sets of train tracks should be included for the crashed train analogy. One toy train would be crashed to show what happens if you leave knowledge and the other would be solid on the tracks to show how fortunate you'll be if you stay. Rick
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:20:28 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: still off topic but setting this straight (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
VP, We're fun and budding entrepreneurs even! Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 2, 1998 at 12:20:39 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: still off topic but setting this straight (Re: Why so many Pictures for Sale?)
Message:
VP, We're fun and budding entrepreneurs even! Robyn
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:41:44 (EST)
Poster: Ken Hansen
Email: kenzmb@webtv.net
To: Bob Fisk
Subject: Park & High Streets
Message:
Ever miss the old neighborhood? Gene and Helen. The Hammonds.What are you up to? Karen Cauble asked if I ever heard from you and I thought I just might catch you here. Get in touch and I'll give you Karen's email address, B&B in Alaska. It's Cool (no pun Intended). Flying Burritos forever. Ken
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:15:29 (EST)
Poster: NV
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: What DID you experience?
Message:
Taken from below: NV, Last time I looked you were supposedly mulling over those quotes. Maharaji's not what you want to make him. He's not even what HE wants to make himself. He is, like all of us, a function of what he's done in his existence. One thing he's done is said a lot of stuff that you, apparently, can't honestly deal with. Fine. So now you've got some questions of your own. Should I answer them? Without your answers first? No, NV, that wouldn't be right, would it? See, I've done it that way. I've gotten into discussion with premies, cornered them and then watched them do anything, anything at all but admit the obvious. Sometimes, like you're doing here, they try to change the subject. Sometimes I've let them. But I'm not going to do it anymore. Right here, I promise to answer any question you've got honestly and fully but only when I feel that you're doing the same. Actually, I'd love to answer your question. Believe me, it's nothing new. But, that would be giving you the wrong sign and I'd hate to help you develop a bad habit of rudeness and evasion. So, if you want me to play, you gotta play fair. Now, what about those quotes? Jim, I don't think I was the one you gave the homework to but I'll consider your request. My response to you comes in the form of the question I posed to you in my previous post, that being, and I'll quote myself, '… what if Maharaji [does in fact] represents in some way the energy that sustains life'. My point being that if this is so, he never mislead anyone because what he said about his juxtaposition with the infinite would have been accurate. Your frustration seems to be that an explanation of this juxtaposition re; how, why, and when doesn't readily come from the people who make the assertion, including him. So YOU say 'If the association with the infinite can't be explained, it doesn't exist and he therefore is a fraud'. That way of thinking is of course a basic rule of logical analysis, which is the foundation of Jim Heller's selective reality. And, given that based on YOUR subjective experience while practising Knowledge that you have written it off as having no value, you have closed the door to the only means offered besides logic to investigate the relevance of this assertion. So I do appreciate where you are coming from (a fact that I know is bound to warm the cockles of your heart). Well Jim, nobody has been able to explain it to-date, and neither can I. It doesn't mean anyone is hedging, hiding, or apologising. Maybe it just means we're not very articulate. That is a deficiency I'm willing to accept. But one thing I'll never accept is that the Knowledge he's shown me is not real.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 20:54:30 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The Succession
Message:
Last night, riding my exercise bike (to begin to work off those extra pounds you saw me in JW and Katie), I leafed through the commemorative And It Is Divine we got at Millenium (and which I received when I ordered my Lord of the Universe album). Who knows if I ever really read it before. There's some syrupy dreacle by Cameron, of course. Adds for the Aquarian Gospel and, of all things, Time/Life's Nature series, not to mention the bestselling book, Who is Guru Maharaji Ji?, and album, Blue Aquarius. No picture in the history of recorded music is likely funnier than the fish-eye portrait of all those Dental Hygenists surrounding Bhole Ji. There's the introductory blurb, where Maharaji welcomes the reader and reminds them that there is never a time that the Lord is not in Human Form ready to take your money. There's some history of Hans Jayanti (did you know that at one of the early 70's programs a bunch of politicos called the Ana...[sorry, I'm not going to look it up] raided the festival and killed eleven people?]). There are some very special pictures of the astrodome. There's an article called 'Prophets of the Millenium' with the obligatory lion and lamb picture. Excerpt: 'So when we look at all these prophecies, we begin to see a pattern emerging: 1) A great Saviour will appear in the world while still a young boy. 2) He will come from somewhere east of Israel and Mexico [Mexico?] but west of the Himilayas and Java. 3) He weill bring true meaning to religion and unite all the world's people. 4) He will establish a reign of peace that will last for a thousand years. 5) While still a young man, his mission will flounder for three decades at the end of which he will rise up like George Foreman, purchase the Washington Times from a false profit and smite the internet. [I'm kidding about one of the points.] Then there is a section of satsangs Maharaji, BBJ and Mata Ji gave when Shri Hans died. Fascinating stuff. They were so uterly confused, of course. It was like some sort of quiet, tense grief-ridden power struggle. Mata Ji and Maharaji are urging the premies to remember that, yes the 'Name' was in them all, but Maharaji was somehow going to manifest through the family. At one point, Maharaji promises to actually show a miracle at 9:00 p.m. Here, I'll get that part (even though it means going into the other room. The things I do for you, Mili!) Remember when you dated? Remember that moment when you 'went for it' and either fell flat on your face or invited in for the real party? (This is a guy-oriented question). Well, little gurus have those moments too. Here's where, on July 31, 1966, in the middle of satsang, Maharaji decided to go for broke: 'I will tell you what happened at Dehra Dun after Guru Maharaj Ji left his body. I was sleeping. On one side of me Mata Ji was sleeping and on the other side a cabinet was standing. On that side, I suddenly felt that there was a man. I looked closely, wodnering what this was all about. Then I saw that Maharaj Ji was there. I turned around and Mata Ji was still sleeping so I looked to the other side and saw that Maharaj Ji was there. I talked with Guru Maharaj Ji about certain matters. So Guru Maharaj Ji is here. He has never gone anywhere. If you want him to come before you I will reveal him to you. You'll be glad to know that I will give proof and make him apparent tonight. I will give proof at 9:00. How will you see Maharaji before you? I will give you proof how you will see. (Having said this, such a splendid thing was shown by Sant Ji that everyone sprang up with ecstasy and the pen of the writer stopped. It was a wonderful scene; now Sant Ji Maharaji put on Guru Maharaji's crown and Mahatma Gurucharanand put a tilak on his forehead. Mata Ji, Bal Bhagwan Ji, Raja Ji, Bhole Ji, Didi Ji [who dat?] and other people protstrated before Sant Ji and adorned him with a garland.) 'When a man leaves the body or when the god of death takes him away, his body is left behind. But Guru Maharaji is present before you, he has not gone anywhere.' (Sant Ji, in a happy mood, garlanded Mata Ji. At that time there was such a sweet smile at seeing one another that the Holy Family could not meet each others' eyes. [Hmmm]. But neither did their eyes tire of beholding one another. Each one was stealing glances at the other. The eyes of Sant Ji clearly showed to Mata Ji, 'See what I was before and what I have now become.' What a wonderful pleasure it was and what a great splendor.) 'If you think Guru Maharaj Ji is gone, your mind is confused. Otherwise how could I have talked to him? Tomorrow I will show you what power I have brought to the world with me. Just as Prahlad manifested God by the power of meditation, I will also manifest God before you by the power of meditation.' There you have it.
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Date: Tues, Mar 31, 1998 at 21:24:38 (EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Succession
Message:
Jim!! I have to tell you, it was your postings that first caught my eye when I was dazed and confused, even more than now, back at the end of '97. You have outdone yourself here, I cannot believe you have copies of that drek. Nor do I really envy you - I remember I was *SO* glad when M ordered all the pics and articles destroyed, it meant my husband at the time would stop embarrassing me and get rid of it. It sure was some stupido stuff, n'est pas? Sad thing was, I felt that way even then, but went along with the herd. ugh. Succession. Well he told us, perfect logic there allright.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 00:36:28 (EST)
Poster: the wooden
Email: bb
To: Jim
Subject: two-step (Re: The Succession )
Message:
Jim, the 'splendid thing' that he did was dance like his dad. I asked charred anand.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 10:43:06 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: the wooden
Subject: Really, Bill? (Re: The Succession )
Message:
Jim, the 'splendid thing' that he did was dance like his dad. I asked charred anand. That was it? That's what he delivered at 9:00? That's why the author dropped his pen? That's how they all know? That's how M manifested Maharaji for them all? And, of course, Henry the Horse, will be doing the waltz
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:55:20 (EST)
Poster: rftgyuho
Email: bb
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Really, Bill? (Re: The Succession )
Message:
Yeah, to make it more cosmic the writer left out the detail. So we could imagine that it WAS godlike. We were dealing with liers and it infected us all. The rawats didn't deal in little white lies.
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Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 at 17:55:53 (EST)
Poster: rftgyuho
Email: bb
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Really, Bill? (Re: The Succession )
Message:
Yeah, to make it more cosmic the writer left out the detail. So we could imagine that it WAS godlike. We were dealing with liers and it infected us all. The rawats didn't deal in little white lies.
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