Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 20

From: Jul 29, 1998

To: Aug 8, 1998

Page: 4 Of: 5



TD -:- Ex-Premie Garage Sale -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:33:14 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Ex-Premie Garage Sale -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:40:54 (EDT)
____TD -:- Ex-Premie Garage Sale -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:57:19 (EDT)
______VP -:- Ex-Premie Garage Sale -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:42:49 (EDT)
________TD -:- A quote especially for you VP -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:48:39 (EDT)
__________VP -:- A quote made for Maharaji -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:42:09 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- A quote especially for you VP -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 13:27:50 (EDT)
____________TD -:- Truly insidious... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:17:05 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- Truly insidious... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:26:54 (EDT)
________________TD -:- Truly insidious... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:55:26 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Did you splurge at Daya's -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:36:40 (EDT)
________TD -:- Did you splurge at Daya's -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:59:22 (EDT)
__JW -:- Sarong? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:36:16 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Sarong? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:27:41 (EDT)
____TD -:- Sarong? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:30:35 (EDT)
______JW -:- Who Makes The Crap they Sell? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:25:16 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Who Makes The Crap they Sell? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:53:16 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Tungsten Watch -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:42:16 (EDT)
________JW -:- Visions -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:00:22 (EDT)
__________TD -:- Visions -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:36:47 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Visions -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:46:17 (EDT)
__________VP -:- Visions -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 20:29:21 (EDT)
________TD -:- Cookery Books and Vitamins... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:46:17 (EDT)
________TD -:- The Ivory Rock Rangers... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:08:07 (EDT)

Gail -:- Pierre Elliot Trudeau -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:19:41 (EDT)
__TD -:- Premie Politicians... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:59:42 (EDT)
____KK -:- Premie Politicians... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:54:20 (EDT)
______TD -:- Premie Politicians... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:09:54 (EDT)
________TD -:- Hey TD - Premie Politicians... -:- Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 06:58:46 (EDT)
__________KK -:- Sorry TD -:- Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 07:02:31 (EDT)
__Scott T. -:- Pierre Elliot Trudeau -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:10:23 (EDT)
____JW -:- Pierre Elliot Trudeau -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:10:23 (EDT)
__JW -:- Jerry Brown -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:18:24 (EDT)
____Rick -:- Jerry Brown -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:54:50 (EDT)
______Bobby -:- Jerry Brown -:- Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 21:09:33 (EDT)
__JW -:- Miami Politicians -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:27:33 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Pierre Elliot Trudeau -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:52:47 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Pierre Elliot Trudeau -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:22:41 (EDT)

Katie -:- A forum for Premies -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:55:59 (EDT)
__Jim -:- A great idea -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:32:32 (EDT)
__red heart -:- David: Premie Site...Not -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:00:49 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:07:21 (EDT)
______red heart -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:17:18 (EDT)
______Rick -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:26:03 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:24:23 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:32:43 (EDT)
____________Selena and Selene -:- Chill Robyn -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:49:11 (EDT)
______________Robyn -:- Chill Robyn -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:43:08 (EDT)
______VP -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:59:09 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- Me a hostile ex!!!! -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:45:26 (EDT)
____Rick -:- David: Premie Site...Not -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:19:53 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Red Heart is a nice person -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:38:55 (EDT)
________TD -:- Red Heart is a nice person -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:33:04 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- Red Heart is a nice person -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:01:12 (EDT)
____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Red Heart is a nice person -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:43:51 (EDT)
________no heart -:- Red Heart is Mili? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 23:16:30 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Red Heart is Mili? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:26:17 (EDT)
____________bill -:- Red Heart is Mili? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 12:32:03 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- Red Heart is Mili? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:41:23 (EDT)
____TD -:- David: Premie Site...Not -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:14:38 (EDT)
____Sir David -:- David: Premie Site...Not -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:20:26 (EDT)
__TD -:- A forum for Premies -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:48:30 (EDT)

Gerry -:- A New Forum for Ex'es -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:50:34 (EDT)
__Jim -:- A bad idea -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:40:34 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- A bad idea? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:02:04 (EDT)
______Jim -:- No, no, no -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:06:45 (EDT)
________Jean-Michel -:- No, no, no: capito -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:20:51 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- No, no, no: capito -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:31:03 (EDT)
____Gerry -:- A bad idea -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:15:31 (EDT)
______Gerry -:- New forum for Ex'es -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:51:57 (EDT)
________Anon -:- I think your forum's fine -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 17:40:51 (EDT)
__________Runamok -:- CHAT? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:03:47 (EDT)
____________Katie -:- CHAT? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:51:05 (EDT)
______________Runamok -:- CHAT? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 23:17:59 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- I think your forum's fine -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:48:23 (EDT)
____________Anon -:- I think your forum's fine -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:56:26 (EDT)
______________Robyn -:- I think your forum's fine -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:10:48 (EDT)

Sir David -:- A schoolboy prank -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:09:23 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Premie forum -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:33:44 (EDT)
____Sir David -:- Consider it done -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 10:43:20 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Another forum! -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:06:38 (EDT)
______Rick -:- Two Suggestions -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:00:19 (EDT)
________Sir David -:- Two Suggestions -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 13:12:20 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Get real, Katie -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:44:20 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Thanks, Jim -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:32:21 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Thanks, Jim -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 16:33:27 (EDT)
__Jim -:- A schoolboy prank -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:56:48 (EDT)
____VP -:- Will John Hammond -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:05:43 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Was John Hammond an initiator? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:50:09 (EDT)
________Bobby -:- Was John Hammond an initiator? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:19:15 (EDT)
________Gerry -:- Was John Hammond an initiator? -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:23:48 (EDT)
__________G's mom -:- Will the real John Hammond -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:07:02 (EDT)
____________JW -:- Wait A Minute -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 00:50:04 (EDT)
______________Gail -:- Wait A Minute -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 07:44:58 (EDT)

Scott T. -:- LAX Snafu -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:44:25 (EDT)
__Scott T. -:- Sorry. That was for Mark. -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 01:21:45 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- Sorry. That was for Mark. -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:03:12 (EDT)

Moving this up top-MS -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:33:23 (EDT)
__JW -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:55:48 (EDT)
____Jim -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:09:06 (EDT)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:03:56 (EDT)
______Paul -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:05:04 (EDT)
________JW -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:20:14 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- Fear of speaking out -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:26:45 (EDT)
____________JW -:- Be Careful -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:53:16 (EDT)
______________John -:- Phone call w/Joe -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:39:09 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:05:51 (EDT)
______Gail -:- One stupid (?) idea -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:07:41 (EDT)
__John -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:08:16 (EDT)
____x -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:47:48 (EDT)
__Selena -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 23:48:14 (EDT)
__Jim -:- We just rented it -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:46:36 (EDT)
__red heart -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:48:31 (EDT)
____Gail -:- How to win back loved ones? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:34:54 (EDT)
______red heart -:- no comparison -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:13:35 (EDT)
________Gail -:- KNOWLEDGE TAKES UP TOO MUCH -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:14:15 (EDT)
________Mickey the Pharisee -:- no comparison -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 13:13:45 (EDT)
________Jim -:- desparate argument -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:23:00 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- and another thing, red -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 16:42:07 (EDT)
____________red heart -:- and another thing, red -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:15:02 (EDT)
______________Rick -:- and another thing, red -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:36:25 (EDT)
__________Jerry -:- Scientific experiments -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
____________Sir David -:- Scientific experiments -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:17:00 (EDT)
______________Jerry -:- Scientific experiments -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:51:54 (EDT)
________________Bobby -:- Scientific experiments -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:15:42 (EDT)
__________________Jim -:- my favorite part -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 05:33:37 (EDT)
__________________Jerry -:- Scientific experiments -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 08:56:43 (EDT)
____________Katie -:- Scientific experiments -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:31:22 (EDT)
________Carol -:- no comparison -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:40:38 (EDT)

Paul -:- A Comparison -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:27:55 (EDT)
__Jean-Michel -:- A Comparison -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:41:25 (EDT)

Richard -:- Belated congratulations -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:19:30 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Belated congratulations -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:12:58 (EDT)
__Nigel -:- Belated congratulations -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:38:30 (EDT)

Jim -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:46:35 (EDT)
__Becky -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:37:53 (EDT)
____Sir David -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:23:51 (EDT)
____Mike -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:50:01 (EDT)
______John -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:45:15 (EDT)
________Carol -:- To Life! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:44:26 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- To Life! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:43:23 (EDT)
______MS -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:46:48 (EDT)
________Mike -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:37:54 (EDT)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:54:15 (EDT)
________Mike -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:01:23 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:35:52 (EDT)
______Mike -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:31:28 (EDT)
________seymour -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:04:09 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:44:00 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- An interesting analogue -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:07:15 (EDT)
____Selena -:- An interesting analogue -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 22:52:03 (EDT)

Jim -:- Brian - I'm confused -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 00:54:11 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Brian - I'm confused -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:35:17 (EDT)

Jim -:- Why didn't I think of this? -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:21:38 (EDT)


Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:33:14 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ex-Premie Garage Sale
Message:
While posting here for the last few days, I have noticed how many souvenirs and how much merchandise we all still have from our previous life as a premie.

I can understand keeping hold onto much of this stuff for when the Big M is subpoenaed, or for use as reference for this site, of for a good laugh, but what do we do with all the boring, innocuous stuff? What do I do with these large photos I have where BM’s not doing anything silly or incriminating, he’s just smiling, either in Western suit gear, or in Indian white garb?

The reason I’m asking is that my flatmate and I are thinking of splashing out on a cleaner (not because we’re slobs, but because we’re rather do more interesting stuff like forum-surf and fishing!) and I know that if this is a self-respecting highly qualified cleaner, then he/she will do a fair bit of snooping around the house.

How can I prevent the cleaner from finding all those videos under my bed, the ones with the intriguing titles, such as ‘Going within’, ‘The World of Knowledge’, ‘Sweet Gratitude’, and the really enticing ones such as ‘Mannaheim 17 July 1995’? How will they be able to resist taking 5 and slipping one of them into the video? Hmmmm, maybe I should use labels with titles such as ‘The Postman’, ‘Blood Gore Fest’ or ‘Plan 9 from Outer Space’ to cover up the Visions International ones, and therefore act as a deterrent...

Seriously though, I want to get rid of these photos. And I’ve also got a sarong in the 25th anniversary logo that cost me 60 smackeroos. Sir David, can I advertise these on the premie page? They’re free and I’d happily pay for postage. That’s a saving of $2145.60 for a premie.

Regards, TD
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:40:54 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Ex-Premie Garage Sale
Message:
I'm pretty sure Sir D. will let you post an ad on the premie page, but Brian also now has a reader's ads section on this site. He says it's for anything from selling a used baragon to looking for lost friends, so your ad would fit in perfectly there as well.

P.S. I just sent all my stuff to Jim (not much really, and nothing as spectacular as that sarong)...he collects it.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:57:19 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Ex-Premie Garage Sale
Message:
Cool! What a useful addition to the site! I don't know if I can ever let go of my baragon - many hours of loving premie handiwork went into its creation...and it could have other practical or kinky uses!

and nothing as spectacular as that sarong

You know when I bought that sarong at Amaroo last year, I had visions of myself practising K under a palmtree in Bali, dressed in my sarong and coconut shell bra and a strange premie would spy the logo on the sarong, would come up to me and say 'Jaisatchitanand Sister. Fancy a pina colada and satsang?' and we would saunter off into the truthful, blissful and conscious sunset. Sadly or gladly, that doesn't look like it will manifest....

Cheers, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:42:49 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Ex-Premie Garage Sale
Message:
TD,
While you are rummaging around with your garage items, how about digging out a quote or two?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:48:39 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: A quote especially for you VP
Message:
Your wish is my command VP!

This one is from page.24 of the 'The Golden Age - 25 Years of Maharaji in Australia'. It is actually written down:

Life is not about relationships or relatives. Life is not about how to make more money...No, life is about being fulfilled.

Don't you just love to see a Perfect Master walk his talk?

Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:42:09 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: A quote made for Maharaji
Message:
Walk his talk. Hilarious!
The doctor does need to heal himself. Good quote, TD.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 13:27:50 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: A quote especially for you VP
Message:
TD: What an insidious little quote from the zombie-master. Note how he makes it ok for someone to shit-can their relationships with friends and relatives. In effect, he is saying that HE is the only worthwhile relationship because he will fulfill you (presumably because he is g_d). WHAT an incredibly dangerous EGO-MANIAC. Why can't the zombies-to-be see this?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:17:05 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Truly insidious...
Message:
What an insidious little quote from the zombie-master.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's funny though Mike, because after my premie relationship broke down and while still a premie, I could console myself with quotes like this. Now I wonder how any premie relationship can get off the ground and survive, when those kind of sabotaging words are constantly thrown about by the Big M.

Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:26:54 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Truly insidious...
Message:
That's why they didn't.

I had a two-year relationship with one premie who preferred to sleep in the closet (literally). This fellow pursued me for months. When I finally agreed, he turned out to be a closet boy.

He used to quote MJ and other 'Saints' expounding on the virtues of celebacy. I kept asking him why he had bothered me in the first place, but he didn't know. It must have been physical or something.

The track record for family or relationship bliss is zero.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:55:26 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Truly insidious...
Message:
When I finally agreed, he turned out to be a closet boy.

I guess he wanted to save himself the hassle of having to go get a blanket when he wanted to practise K? All he needed to do, was close the door to get a bit of inner-darkness! Unbelievable.

You know when you did your list of all the premies you know and it just revealed how dysfunctional they all were. Well, I was just thinking about the premie relationships I know (which are very, very few: most being dysfunctionally single). The only one that has stayed together for twenty years is this couple that live together but doing everything separately. They would travel to events separately, they pay for everything to do with M separately, they go away separately. I guess they really lived the 'Knowledge is an individual experience' ethos to the full, IMHO!

Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:36:40 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Did you splurge at Daya's
Message:
Fine Dining, too? I'm sure you read about my fine time there.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:59:22 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Did you splurge at Daya's
Message:
No, I couldn't afford to go to Daya's Fine Dining. After paying for my flight and hotel and all the other bits and pieces, the only bucks I had left went to that sarong I'm now trying to flog.

Yeah, I think I remember reading about your experience at Daya's - bossed around by a couple of nazi-premies, weren't you?

What about the exhibition hall? That was so full-on! That whole art gallery dedicated to the Big M, and there was a piano player there as well I recall, adding some ambience for the shoppers. Totally freaky to think back on that whole experience.

Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:36:16 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Sarong?
Message:
I just have to ask. What is the ' 25th anniversary logo?' Swans, maybe. Maybe a swan nesting on a lotus, or between to bare feet?

So, they sell clothes at these programs now? Really? Have you ever actually worn that sarong? Where?

By the way, I have the same concerns about porn videos and my cleaning lady, but she's Chinese and speaks almost no English, so I think it's okay. :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:27:41 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Sarong?
Message:
A square patch L (difficult to describe). Ugly.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 18:30:35 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Sarong?
Message:
JW, don't listen to Gail when she says it's ugly (pssst Gail - remember I'm trying to sell the godforsaken thing over on the ads page!). And, no, never worn it - after all it's too good for just daily wear - truly a Sunday best sarong.

It's sort of a mandala type symmetrical design with a lotus representation and a couple of crescents on there as well. It was used as a backdrop to all the 25th anniversary celebrations around the world.

Oh, JW you don't know what you've been missing when it comes to funky EV merchandise. Here's a list:

Paperweights
Writing Pads (with the Knowledge crest on it)
T-shirts with sayings like 'Knowledge - The Edge', or 'Amaroo - Swept by the Feeling'. Can't you just hear the heavens opening and the angels weeping?
Pens
Posters
and a whole ton more, but I can't remember as I'd didn't have too many shopping vouchers at that event - Gail, help me out here, what were some other things?

And you get to take it home in a sleek shopping bag with the current logo on it. Total premie status symbol.

TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:25:16 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Who Makes The Crap they Sell?
Message:
I don't suppose premies actually make the trinkets they sell, do they? I mean I suppose they are manufactured in some Asian sweat shop for pennies, the logo is slapped on, and they sell them for a huge mark-up, right? Any idea who actually MADE the sarong?

I don't suppose M gives a shit about the plight of Asian workers, now does he? I mean he is totally environmentally irresponsible, isn't he? Who could condone flying a huge jet for ONE person? Hello? Ever heard of global warming and the ozone layer?

Also, since there is this huge trinket bizarre bazaar, did you ever hear any premies suggest it might be a bit much? A big too commercial or obvious money-grubbing? Did anyone question it at all?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:53:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Who Makes The Crap they Sell?
Message:
Only the finest manufacturers are used. For example, there is a Canadian company producing top-quality sweatshirts with raised insignia on them. This product was sold for the anniversary at $89 a piece. They were probably bought for around $25 Canadian. The cups all have the Royal Doulton mark on them.

The some of the jewellry I looked at was made in Switzerland.

The premies won't buy junk.

The poor premies were weeded out a long time ago.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:42:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Tungsten Watch
Message:
For $285 US or gold for more if you prefer. I confess. I bought the keyfob for $55. I ended up losing a few school keys from it (grounds for dismissal). It wasn't any more functional or secure than M and K.

Of course, for the truly organized, there was a day-planner. I couldn't figure this one out since MJ said not to plan. Time management was impossible. The only control we had was what to do with our time.

Gold necklaces and earings with a lotus on it, Royal Doulton cups, postcards, videos, publications, jackets

Amaroo had torches, sunscreen, batteries, booze, cigarettes, cappachino, baked goods at the coffee hot spots

YOU NAME IT--VISIONS SOLD IT.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:00:22 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Visions
Message:
Well, Visions seems to be the money organization. Do you know where Visions is incorporated, if it is? I mean, does 'inc.' appear anywhere, or 'LLC' or 'Ltd.?' I think somebody should do some corporate research into this organization. I assume it must be 'for profit' and in any case file tax returns. Doesn't Visions also do all the video distribution, as well as sell all the trinkets?

Gail, I'm confused. I thought you said many of the premies WERE poor? Do you mean the poor premies aren't premies anymore, or that they just don't go to programs, or what?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:36:47 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Visions
Message:
I've just sent you an e-mail re. this!
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:46:17 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Visions
Message:
Well, there is always more credit. The really poor ones just wait for MJ to come close by. They probably don't buy anything at the programs.
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Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 20:29:21 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Visions
Message:
Hey, JW
I get the Visions catalog mailer. Yes they sell the videos, too. And the CDs. I just looked on the flyer and did not see anything after the name Visions International (not Inc., etc.) I am sure TD can tell you much more about it than I can, though.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:46:17 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail/JW
Subject: Cookery Books and Vitamins...
Message:
Thanks Gail, you just jogged my memory! I forgot I bought a cookery book from a premie there also. I wonder if she had to give EV a slice of that fiscal transaction, so that she could sell there?

Interesting comment about the plane and the ozone JW. Seems a tad ironic when at all the satsangs there, Maharaji went on and on about how the hole in the ozone layer was just over Oz, so 'to be careful of the sun'. Anyway the stall that had all the Akubra (Croc Dundee) hats must have made a killing at Amaroo! I'd love to have known what percentage EV were taking from all the sales...

TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:08:07 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: The Ivory Rock Rangers...
Message:
Gail, while at Amaroo, did you ever get hassled by the Ivory Rock Rangers (my name for them!) for sitting on the grass and trying to practise Knowledge?

By the end of the four days I was about to deck one of them. I'd been sitting down on the grass, cross-legged, contemplating life, truth, consciousness and bliss, and no sooner had I been there for 5 minutes, then one of the IRR would come up and say 'You're not practising K are you? Remember what M said? Monkey see, monkey do!' (Another quote for you VP - but try and imagine it said in a really condascending tone!). They were so paranoid about any non-premie gatecrashers seeing us practise K, that it was verging on the ridiculous!

And, just while I'm here having a good old whinge, a South American IRR came up to me on the last day and said 'Move away from the long grass. There are snakes that can bite you here.' They obviously didn't know I was Australian, but by that stage I'd been hassled by that many IRRs, I was ready to shout out 'Listen dickwad. I went straight off my mother's breast to cracking snakes like a bullwhip over my head at our family farm. I've seen more fucking snakes then there are premies here, so just FUCK OFF AND LEAVE ME ALONE WITH MY SLIPPERY REPTILIAN FRIENDS!'

Phew. I needed that. Here endeth the whinge.

Regards, TD
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:19:41 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Message:
has been to see MJ in Montreal twice that I saw. The last time I saw him was about two years ago. For those of you who don't know, he was Canada's Prime Minister intermittantly from 1968 to 1982. Now we know why he couldn't keep his wife, Maggie. He was a premie (I don't know if he has K or not).
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:59:42 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Premie Politicians...
Message:
Ah, so that's the Prime Minister who M once spoke about it. I remember the video where he was saying about how K is just growing so fast and that there are a lot of prominent people who can't go to public events, 'like Prime Ministers of countries...'.

I always wondered if he was making it up! I knew it couldn't have been one of our Prime Ministers! They couldn't have stood the adoration/competition that M would get, although they could have swapped handy notes on how to corrupt, deceive and lie to the masses...

Actually, one of our female politicians, Carmen Lawrence, her ex-partner is an old premie, and their relationship split up when he left her and became a celibate ashramite. I remember reading about it in a relatively recent bio newspaper article. I can't understand how his actions would have affected a relationship like that. Just as she wants to serve the people, shouldn't he be allowed to serve the Lord and have her full support?

Fascinating Gail. Regards, TD
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 07:54:20 (EDT)
From: KK
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Premie Politicians...
Message:
You're right, TD.

In fact, Carmen Lawrence's ex-partner and father of her child is an ex-initiator.

For the benefit of everyone globally, Carmen Lawrence was strongly mooted as the first possible female Prime Minister of Oz. Still an MP.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 08:09:54 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: KK
Subject: Premie Politicians...
Message:
Do you know if he's still a premie, and if so, where he lives KK? Perth? Melbourne?

BTW KK, have you ever read or heard any of Phillip Adam's [cynical and skeptical Australian broadcaster/journo for non-Aussie readers] stuff when he takes a swipe at gurus like Maharaji? He most know or have known premies...

Regards, TD
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Date: Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 06:58:46 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Hey TD - Premie Politicians...
Message:
Recently heard he's still living in LA as per the magazine article. I used to know him very well as we were initiated at the same time over 25 years ago. I used to see him when I was on tour with MJ in Asia. We had some contact about 15 years ago.

I used to read Adams but as he generally writes in the Weekend Oz (not sure if he still does) my brain was trying to have a break when his column would come before my tired post-Friday night eyeballs and I'd say 'Not today'. Just too turgid and complex for me - my weekdays are turgid and complex, you see.

He used to live in Melbourne, my original community and hometown and there was always a strong and well connected group of premies there who knew all levels and types of people including probably him in all likelihood.
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Date: Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 07:02:31 (EDT)
From: KK
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Sorry TD
Message:
I stuffed up and didn't put myself down as the sender. Please forgive me, TD. I've had a turgid and complex day.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:10:23 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Message:
Gail:

I think the reason Pierre Elliot couldn't keep his wife was that there were a thousand avenues to Maggie's heart, if you know what I mean.

-Scott
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:10:23 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Message:
Yes, Scott. Margaret was rumored to have had sex with a significant portion of the population of North America. Remember that comedy routine with Steve Martin?

And what about Streisand's and Pierre's much-publicized relationship? If he could put up with Barbra, he could probably put up with a premie as self-righteous, self-absorbed, and passive aggressive as red heels.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:18:24 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Jerry Brown
Message:
Remember Jerry Brown, former 2-term governor of California (aka 'governor moonbeam'), former head of the California Democratic Party, former 2X presidential candidate with the 800 number, and the current mayor-elect of Oakland?

Well, he reputedly attended some Maharaji-cult program during the his political down period during the 80s when he also retreated to Japan and followed Zen. Now, if there ever was a politician that would be open to something as weird at Maharaji it was Jerry Brown. However, he is rupeted to have told friends that he thought M ran a bizarre cult, and that he was very troubled about the extent to which Maharaj was worshipped and about the lavishly decadent lifestyle he lived, which he thought was contradictory to M's philosophy that material possessions don't bring happiness and that peace is only found within. He was not impressed.

I always liked Jerry Brown. He always seemed like somebody who didn't accept shit unquestioned. I think Oakland might be fortunate to have him.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 19:54:50 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Jerry Brown
Message:
I agree with you about Jerry Brown. I was really happy when he won that election.
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Date: Tues, Aug 04, 1998 at 21:09:33 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Jerry Brown
Message:
Hey, we agree!
I really like Jerry Brown too.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:27:33 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Miami Politicians
Message:
Considering the millions of dollars that premies, Maharaji and DLM dropped in Miami Beach for the countless programs M held there, you would have thought that Miami politician or two would have at least attended one of two of M's little gatherings. But, as far as I know, it never happened. In fact, if anything, the politicians were downright hostile to DLM, M and his cult. I recall trying to get permits for various things from city agencies and it was very difficult once they found out who I was representing.

But Chamber of Commerce was open to the extent that it was profitable to the area hotels, restaurants, etc., but those leaders kept their distance as well.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 14:52:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Message:
Gail,

This is bizarre. Trudeau? You've got be kidding. But, no, you're not, are you? Listen, if you're sure about this, let me know. I'll look him up in the lawyer's directory and email him. This is fucking incredible. Trudeau??
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:22:41 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Message:
Cross my heart and don't hope to die. Yup it's true. I saw him myself. If this eases the pain, he was a great politican in my books.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:55:59 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A forum for Premies
Message:
Here's the link to the site (as Rick suggested):

'A forum for premies'

Just click on it, and you should go there (if I did it right). For those who are interested, here is David's welcoming message.

Dear Premies,

Here is your forum, set up in the interests of free speech and free expression. You are welcome to write about Maharaji and knowledge here without fear or prejudice. While some ex-premies may want to contribute here, if you find them to be too contradictory to your imput then just email me and I'll consider an appropriate course of action. In extreme cases, offensive posts will be deleted since we want this to be a 'premie' forum for premies and not an anti Maharaji site.

Wishing you all the best. Have fun.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:32:32 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: A great idea
Message:
That's too funny. I almost posted something but then I remembered my manners.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:00:49 (EDT)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Sir David aka David S.
Subject: David: Premie Site...Not
Message:
Okay, this is really weird. A premie site run by an ex-premie?!

This is total weirdness. When I got e-mail inviting me to the site I didn't recognize the your address for sure, but now logging on here I see it is ''Sir David,'' the same person who refused to e-mail me in the past because you didn't want to talk about Maharaji. I talked about Maharaji in private e-mail to you and you cut me off. Now you want to start a 'premie site.' Am I crazy or is this strange?

Fact is, I would love to see a premie website, but only run by premies and only if Maharaji was okay about it. He likes to be the one to tell people about Knowledge. After all, it's his gift, and he's the one who is giving it. That is his right. I can't conceive that an ex-premie would abide by Maharaji's wishes when monitoring posts on the site. Especially one who denies that Maharaji has any gift to give.

Oh, this is really, really weird and bizarre. Surely you have something up your sleeve with this one, like you're putting cheese in the cage so all the cute little mice will run in and before they know it WHAM the cage door slams down? Some bizarre kind of trap? I just looked at the site and so far there are 2 posts: both from people who, from my understanding, consider themselves ex-premie (yourself and Robyn, a very hostile ex).

How bizarre. It's a very strange idea, David. How bizarre. But I repeat myself.

David, why on earth are you doing this? You're just making a funny, right?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:07:21 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: red heart
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
Wow, what a label!!! I wonder if one other person in this WORLD thinks of me as a hostile anything! Wish I knew what to do with this new found hostility, maybe get my land lady to fix my WATER!!!!!!!
Have I scared you yet red heart?
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:17:18 (EDT)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
you wrote me what I considered to be the most hostile anti-premie post I have received on this web page. but I'm surprised you read my post now. you told me that you prefer to skip my messages.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:26:03 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
Robyn,
You know you're hostile and everyone else does also. I think it's very cute that you're playing innocent but I, for one, don't plan on getting abused any longer. Finally, someone had the guts to stand up to you. Everything on this forum is always about you; Robyn, Robyn, Robyn. Everyone always has to agree with Robyn. Well, not anymore, Buster! I'm ready to be my own person now - find someone else to push around.
Rick
free at last, in 98
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:24:23 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Rick
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
Rick,
I usually write Dear, have you ever noticed that, but I just can't bring myself to do that here. I thought you were my coach and somehow things got turned around and I was teaching you. The student surpassing the teacher once again! It is so sad to see how bitter you've become. I've come into my own now and you hate knowing I am strong and independant and don't need your guidance anymore.
You probably have read that I am having water problems and so I am getting in touch, big time, with my Inner B&%*h right now and am holding back. I'd better stop this now before I just lose it and start upsetting people.
Robyn, I usually write Love too, maybe another time.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:32:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
OHMYGOD! That was so hard to write! I probably took me 15 min! I just couldn't leave it there without an explination behind it, sorry Rick!
Rick is definitely the coach, my cursing and expressing anger coach. I only taught him one variation on a curse word, that's it. I probably shouldn't have read the next post from you Rick, were you really said something nice, I knew it!

redheart,
If I really said something mean I am sorry. I don't read any premie posts, sometimes but rarely unless of course you use a regular name and I can't tell but it is hard to try to speak to someone who has but one thought to think and drive home when my thoughts are more varied.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:49:11 (EDT)
From: Selena and Selene
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Chill Robyn
Message:
Everyone knows you are nice
Rick was just making fun of red whatever.
I guess you figured that out but I just wanted to add
a little encouragement.
Imagine you giving him/her the most hostile post!
Rick and I are both jealous. What about my story/ and my heel height challenges? I feel slighted.
But, you being the bitch you are, deserve more credit I guess.
ha ha ha ha.... (you do know I'm joking right?)
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:43:08 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Selena and Selene
Subject: Chill Robyn
Message:
Dear Selena/e,
I know your kidding! I've been gone for a long time you do want my to stay for a bit now don't you. :)
Love ya honey,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:59:09 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
Robyn hostile?? I am rolling in the floor!

If I had a dollar for everytime Robyn was nice, I could pay cash for Maharaji's house...and his cars, too, and I'd have cash left to spare.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:45:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Me a hostile ex!!!!
Message:
Dear VP,
Thanks honey, I may have said something mean to red heart or maybe he/she took it wrong. That can happen too with the written word, or maybe I was in a raging bitchy mood, has EVER happened!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:19:53 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: David: Premie Site...Not
Message:
Well, red heart, I have to agree with you about one thing... that Robyn woman is definitely hostile. Did you know that she once said 'darn', and that when she gets upset she doesn't 'go inside' but instead says 'frickin'? I think you're right to avoid her - she's liable to tear you a new asshole.

Now about the new Premie Forum... I don't get it. This maharaji isn't running a cult is he? I mean, he teaches meditation and you can talk about it, right? So what's the objection? If your dad gives you a present, even if he made it himself (like a ceramic ashtray), you can still talk about it to anyone, right? I mean, it's his gift to you, but you still have a right to talk about it, don't you?

I don't understand your objection. You say that knowledge is maharaji's gift and he likes to be the one to talk about it, but you're talking about it here. And this website isn't okay with maharaji. And he isn't okay with you posting here, so what's up with that? If I didn't know you better, red heart, I'd say your thinking is all screwed up.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:38:55 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Red Heart
Subject: Red Heart is a nice person
Message:
Dear Red Heart:

When I was floundering here almost two months ago, you did your best to inspire me. I did not take your advice but I appreciate your effort. You still believe in MJ. That's what makes it all work for you.

Have you considered the idea that the people who post facts here, not just emotions, are not lying. I know that the first time I came out here was June 9, 1998. My letter to MJ is there signed GMac. I figured that the other people who were posting here were like me at one time or another--devotees.

Something happened to them to change their minds. Either they saw too much, didn't experience enough, were sick of blind faith, were tired of the guilt and fear, or they just plain wanted their lives back. I remember when MJ said that you had to break a horse's spirit. Then you could lead him.

You may think that I did not try, but that is not the case. I remember trying my guts out after Tuscon many moons ago. Then, on the way to the Philly program, MJ spotted our little car. I ended up doing full pranam and got very blasted. I was so high that I couldn't even see him that first time he danced in his mala.

Nevertheless, I have turned into some weird person who prefers to be alone, etc., etc. I have had many doubts over the years, but I hid them deep within myself. I have shuffled off to the videos, forced myself to meditate, donated money locally and to the head office, and sneaked off to many programs world wide. I have given away and lent out piles of money for other premies to go. I am a saint--but not a REALIZED SOUL.

I have lived with terrible guilt over a friend's death. For years, I would phone her long distance to beg her to go to, yet, another program. One day, I had the phone in my hand and I put it back on the cradle. I said to myself, 'I'm not my sister's keeper.' Well, she died about a week after. I was hysterical at her funeral for not having 'encouraged her on the path.'

Something in you knows it's a farce, too. That's why you're here. I wish you the best.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:33:04 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Red Heart is a nice person
Message:
Lovely post Gail. And I agree, I think Red Heart, just like a lot of other premies I know, is a nice person underneath all the premie conditioning. We were all very similar as premies, I'm sure.

You know, I feel ex-premies are like snakes who have shed their old premie skin off on a rock. It feels so fresh and liberating and totally foxy to be free of that dried up inhibiting skin!

Regards, TD

PS. I know that some premies would agree with the definition of us as 'snakes', only they probably would use it in the vein of the Biblical image, which unfortunately gave it a bad rap!
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:01:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: TD
Subject: Red Heart is a nice person
Message:
Dear TD,

It feels so fresh and liberating and totally foxy

I LOVE THIS!!!

Totally foxy!!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 00:43:51 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Red Heart is a nice person
Message:
'I LOVE THIS!!!
Totally foxy!!
Love,
Robyn'

Gawd Robyn, do you have to be so HOSTILE???
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 23:16:30 (EDT)
From: no heart
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Red Heart is Mili?
Message:
Gail,
Did your Philidelphia story make it into divine times?
I heard it before.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 02:26:17 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: no heart
Subject: Red Heart is Mili?
Message:
Yup! I've got the copy here.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 12:32:03 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Red Heart is Mili?
Message:
Would you mind posting it?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 16:41:23 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Red Heart is Mili?
Message:
I don't know this. I just joined in on the thread.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 20:14:38 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: David: Premie Site...Not
Message:
After all, it's his gift, and he's the one who is giving it. That is his right.

He doesn't have the copyright on these techniques!! Go to Jean-Michel's site and read about the Rhadhasoami tradition and where M's dad got these techniques from. If he had a patent on them (which would be virtually impossible to get and subsequently police), then he may have legal recourse to prevent premies/ex-premies/non-premies from revealing them in a certain way. But he doesn't.

It's a bit like the freestyle swimming technique (which at one stage was known as the Australian Crawl due to its olympic inception and introduction by Aussie swimmers). Something that involves the voluntary movement of the human body, cannot be deemed 'a gift' by one man. It's like someone showing me how to pick my nose properly and telling me that it is a gift only for me, and that I shan't show anybody else, because that's not my right!

In reality he is teaching techniques, but it is not only 'his' gift to give.

Regards, TD
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:20:26 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: red heart
Subject: David: Premie Site...Not
Message:
Dear Red Heart; If you really want to subdivide people in different catagories like premie and ex-premie then so be it. You object to me 'running' the premie forum. All I've done is set it up. It is a much needed service. There's no pleasing some people is there.

If you think it's wierd then it's only wierd to your mind because you see people, not as humans but as premies, ex-premies and non premies.

OK, I'll admit it is a little bizarre but what other choice is there? No premie wants to set up an Internet forum even though they all want one so it's left up to an 'untouchable' like me to set up. Sure it's bizarre but can't you see the humour in it?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:48:30 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Katie/David
Subject: A forum for Premies
Message:
I've just been and had a look and I posted the classic quote that no premie can be offended with. It's the only sentence that M would ever publish if he wrote a book and signed it.

I now know what it feels like to implement self-censorship and be restrained with regards to a forum - but I abide and respect the principles by which that forum was set up, and I will maintain my mental and larrikin shackles whence ever I tarry forth to that site yonder!

‘Twas a wee jaunt back to premiedom for me, it was.

Great initiative David!

Regards, TD
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:50:34 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Everyone
Subject: A New Forum for Ex'es
Message:
Looks like forum fever around here. Two days ago I set up a forum (also at paradise) for people who, for whatever reason, prefer not to post here, but would like to discuss M and K in a different atmosphere. Hey, I'm struggling here, trying to be PC, but let's face it, it can get pretty rough around here, and not everyone wants to play hardball all the time.

It will be a semi-moderated forum in that serious flaming, name calling, ridicule and stuff like that will be cause for banishment. Otherwise, anything goes as far as topics. Of course I expect people to disagree and challenge others' ideas and beliefs. It would be pretty dull otherwise.

It's mainly a place where people can find their voices and speak their minds without that 'ole intimidated feeling' and ''fear of speaking out'' that's been bantered around here lately.

Personally, I *love* ex-premie.org and the people here. I'll be hanging out at both places, indulging my Gemini self at will. As Jim so accurately described me ' a little of this, a little of that.' Why fight mother nature?

Everyone here is welcome to drop on by. Just remember to ''mind your manners.'' I would really like to hear from people who haven't posted here for whatever reasons. In fact it's for you that this new forum exists. Come on in, the water's fine and we're discussing meditation right now.

The Forum at Magical Mystery Tour
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:40:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: A bad idea
Message:
Gerry,

Love you, baby, but I can't help but think this is a bad idea. Like when JM started his page, the one thing I always felt was that it was a great idea so long as he didn't start another discussion board. Can't you see why?

Well, whatever. Maybe I'm wrong. I just that you're coddling some counter-productive instincts here, well one anyway -- the instinct to preserve our beliefs at all costs even while pretending to be willing to discuss them.

What's going to happen when people disagree about something there? Are you going to invite them to take it downtown to THIS forum?

And which one do you refer people to when you want to adivse them taht ther's a discussion board about Maharaji?

Nope, bad idea, I think.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:02:04 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A bad idea?
Message:
Hey Jim,
I'm not sure I understand all of your humor!

Do you think the DLM/EV's Indian background pages are not a good idea?

Whatever your opinion might be, I'll keep them and develop them anyway ...
My feeling is that they're fundamental materials to understand
m's philosophy and psychology. Don't you agree?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:06:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No, no, no
Message:
JM,

What's-a-matter-you, don't you speak English or something?

No, I was saying that what I thought would be a bad idea, and as I told you before you started your page, was starting a second forum there. (Not that you even mentioned it. I just threw that in, I think). No, I think your page is fantastic. That stuff is extremely important. How could anyone disagree?

(By the way, your English is excellent, save but for the occasional mix-up like this taht reminds me that, unlike me, you can actually speak more than one tongue).

Capiche?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:20:51 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, no, no: capito
Message:
Hi Jim,

Glad you agree!
Now I might tell you what I had in mind:
the whole Indian issue was not totally clear for me,
and my first idea was to try to gather all the available and pertinent material over the issue, in order to se if the whole thing was coherent, discuss it with other exes etc.
Now it looks like the whole issue is cristral clear for a critical mind.
Maybe these pages could be presented in an other way, I don't know.
Maybe someone could write some kind of an introduction to the whole thing, with links ot the various aspects, maybe that's what still missing.
Then maybe Brian would accept having it on 'his' clean website,
as mine looks morelike some research ...

What do you think?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:31:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No, no, no: capito
Message:
What do you think?

I think you're skating perilously close to posting suggestions about this site on the Forum which practise Brian apparently hates. (Personally, I think he shouldn't. After all, you're not really just asking me. You're asking anyone who wants to comment. How else can you do that but here?)

Beyond that, I think it's a great idea. That kind of content can only enrich this site.

You know, when I found that T. H. Huxley stuff I wandered in to a 'ring' of pages that were all clearly under some conceptual umbrella. Have you ever seen one of those? That's another way to set up, even with some shared graphics to give readers a sense of cohesion.

I think that if Brian doesn't want to incorporate your pages for some reason, maybe having to do with the logistics of magaing the site or something, that might be another way to go.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:15:31 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A bad idea
Message:
Jim,

It's not without misgivings that I did this.

I just that you're coddling some counter-productive instincts here, well one anyway -- the instinct to preserve our beliefs at all costs even while pretending to be willing to discuss them.

Yeah, this might happen.

Alternatively, this could become the sluggers' alley where we could ''take it outside, mister.'' And a place to discuss completely off topic stuff without making people who are here to specifically discuss issues relevant to leaving the cult wade through it all . In fact I kinda like this idea. But I ain't making any promises and I'm not really set on anything.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:51:57 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: All, especially lurkers
Subject: New forum for Ex'es
Message:
What does everyone else think?

I would appreciate hearing from lurkers. Is this something you want/need/would participate in?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 17:40:51 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: I think your forum's fine
Message:
Just took a peek at your forum which looks very nice.
The more the merrier. I don't have time to participate much, but as a periodic lurker, I trawl with eagle eye for those interesting posts, avoiding those which are off the topic which interests me.
Also I think JM's site is very good and informative. I am sure that in the future, more and more sites will pop up about Maharaji. These sites will act as fragmented resources for the next generation of critics, who will want to find information about Maharaji in order to help them to compile their various Television documentaries and Newspaper articles about Maharaji and his followers. There is an organic quality to the growth of the movement to speak the truth about the Maharaji phenomenon.
I myself made the mistake of having a too rigid (or unrealistic) an idea of the way things should be presented and of course, I found myself quickly entangled with the opposing ideas. I now say to myself..' If you want to see something done..Do it yourself.'
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:03:47 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: lotuspower@aol.com
To: ex-premies
Subject: CHAT?
Message:
I think a chat room would help- and people being here a lot could use it. For the moment, it's slightly past me to put one up but I think that that would contribute more rather than a mere duplication. It could provide a healthier environment for flaming (cause that stuff is not really conducive to a 'forum') AND encourage more one-on-one communication among old friends or for sharing a la satsang (minus the BM). I am grateful for ANYBODY's sites allowing people to share and research their experience without any unwanted cultist authority dominating or dictating.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:51:05 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: CHAT?
Message:
Runamok and I have been discussing the possibility of a chat room via e-mail. Brian and I don't have time to put one up and administer it, but if anyone else is interested, I believe they have a trial version of one at (you guessed it) Paradise! (paradise-web.com). There are probably also other ones that I don't know about - I am not a 'chat' person.

Some people on this forum have expressed interest in a chat room in the past - does anyone want to set one up and see what happens?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 23:17:59 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: lotuspower@aol.com
To: All
Subject: CHAT?
Message:
I think there are several free programs around and they are low maintenance as well. Anyone who might want to take the initiative can email me and I can share what I know.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:48:23 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Anon
Subject: I think your forum's fine
Message:
Dear Anon,
Hi, Anon, nice to 'see' you.
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:56:26 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: I think your forum's fine
Message:
Nice to 'see' you too Robyn!

Talking of which...how's about setting up a chat-room like those 'Palaces'. Has anyone been to those cyber-palaces where they literally have rooms where you can chat and you can put on funny costumes and adopt various props. We could have our photos as 'props'!
Of course I couldn't possibly have my face on line. I would have to be heavily disguised!
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:10:48 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Anon
Subject: I think your forum's fine
Message:
Dear Anon,
Are you kidding!? I never heard of using props! Fancy! I don't like chat rooms much except for on someone told me about, software where you can and someone else have the software and you can talk real time. That's neat but chat 'rooms' go to fast and I was the only one with 8 or 10 line posts, big suprise. I also like being able to leave messages to be seen anytime where chat just goes off. I've only seen a chat room 2 or 3 times so maybe there are differences. I say I don't like chat rooms, but with props... :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:09:23 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Everyone
Subject: A schoolboy prank
Message:
I have an idea which would really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I was having a look at the 'nice' ex-premie forum over at Paradise and I thought, what about all those poor premies who want a forum to praise our Lord of the Universe but who are not allowed one?

I believe that it only costs around $25 to get a forum set up on Paradise. So I was thinking, why don't I set a premie forum up on Paradise. Now I'm not a believer myself so that when Elan Vital ask me to take the premie forum off the net, I could just tell them to get stuffed.

Now the premies would really appreciate their own forum and they could rave on about Maharaji to their heart's content and nobody, not even the Lord of the Universe himself, could stop them. I'd consider it a divine service to our Lord.

What do you think?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:33:44 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Sir David
Subject: Premie forum
Message:
Hi David - I don't think it would be a prank (except maybe to the folks at EV), and I think it might be a nice thing to do. You can get a free trial for 30 days and see if anyone is interested. You can also learn a bit about HTML, etc. in the process (if you don't know all that stuff already). I have never understood why M and EV don't want premies to talk on the Internet.

I do wonder how you'd keep exes off the forum, though...
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 10:43:20 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Katie
Subject: Consider it done
Message:
The new free Premie Forum is at:

http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=premieforum

I know nothing about HTML and I got the forum which holds only 200 messages so does that mean that old messages are automatically deleted?

I don't want to spend too much time administering it and would prefer it if it can 'run itself'. I'll email any premies I have addresses of and let them know about the forum.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:06:38 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Another forum!
Message:
You don't have to know anything about HTML unless you want to 'fix up' your forum in some way (add special colors, etc). Also, I am not sure what the 200 message limit means (Gerry probably knows.) I'll check and report back to you via e-mail. I do think that you can make them so they don't need to be archived.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 12:00:19 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Two Suggestions
Message:
Hi David,
What a brainstorm - that's a great idea. If you're up to it, you might try registering the site with some search engines so that when premies are searching 'maharaji' or 'premies' or 'knowledge' they get a URL for the site.

Also, you might want to bring the thread up to the top with a subject line that mentions the site.

Once again, great idea.
Rick
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 13:12:20 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Rick
Subject: Two Suggestions
Message:
I tried putting the URL in altavista but it wouldn't accept it and said it was an invalid URL. I'll try again later.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:44:20 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Get real, Katie
Message:
I don't think it would be a prank (except maybe to the folks at EV), and I think it might be a nice thing to do.

Katie,

OF COURSE it's a prank. What's wrong with you? And the only thing 'nice' about it is that will allow the premies to argue about whether Maharjai's the Lord or not just like they started to do on Mili and Harlan's old forum before Mili shut them down.

Jeez..
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:32:21 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks, Jim
Message:
You just helped me see the error of my ways. Appreciate it, as always.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 16:33:27 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks, Jim
Message:
You just helped me see the error of my ways. Appreciate it, as always.

Good, you should. David's idea is the EPITOME of a prank. It's only 'nice' for very 'un-nice' reasons.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 15:56:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: A schoolboy prank
Message:
David,

This is really a blessed idea. An absolutely fantastic one. Like I mentioned, we don't have to worry aobut premies discussing Maharaji unchallenged and thus frustrating any of us who happen to read it all. It is absolutely impossible for premies to discuss Maharaji without embroiling themselves in confusion. He knows that and that's why, in his mercy, he's trying to spare them all that negativity. If you recall, the old premie page saw newer premies try to encourage everyone to avoid religiosity or anything approaching a 'worship' mentality. After all, that's the very stuff that makes Maharaji look like a cult leader! They were met by older die-hards who said that that was nonsense, Maharaji IS the Lord and they just wanted to cut their heads off for him and let the love and blood ooze in puddles at his feet. (My interpretation).

It was funny. Sad, of course, but really funny.

So, this is a neat idea.

One thing I suggest is that your site bear no sign that your tongue is in your cheek. To that end the PRANK should be smooth as glass. So long as no one ever posts anything critical of Maharaji there, sooner or later you're going to get a few bites. Just like Scott Perry did here way back when. These premies will
be premies like red heart who, for whatever reason, jsut can't clue in to the Master's agya on this one. There could be a lot of them.

I suggest that you DON'T have a place for people to post their email addresses. That will just give EV a way to contact them privately and try to dissuade them from posting. In fact, EV might post something along those lines itself. Of course, that would be violating Maharaji's command in the first instance. Like cops that sell drugs in order to bust people. They might have to get special dispensation or risk hell.

I think that exes should really refrain from posting there -- at least not as exes. Got to let the love flow.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:05:43 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: David
Subject: Will John Hammond
Message:
Smythe post?? If so we will miss him here :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 20:50:09 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Was John Hammond an initiator?
Message:
That name sounds familiar.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:19:15 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Was John Hammond an initiator?
Message:
Now that you mention it, the name sounds familar to me too. I can almost hear Maharaji saying the name.

Wasn't John Hammond the initiator a guy of average height with 'waspy' appearance, including short blond/brown hair combed to the side?

Now that I think more about it, I think he was in India in 1971! He was tight with John Mishler. There was a big row about the Indian food served all us western devotees. The same meal every night - subji, dahl and rice. Some of us complained loudly and he did something about it. We had better food from that point. I remember John Hammond. Not completely sure if he became an initiator, but he might have.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:23:48 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Was John Hammond an initiator?
Message:
Actually Gail, there are two John Hammonds in the states. They are both fantastic musicians/singers/performers. They both are in the bluesy genre.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:07:02 (EDT)
From: G's mom
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Will the real John Hammond
Message:
There was a upper echalon John Hammond. I recall him vaguely. I think he was waspy. I sort of think he was a security type guy.
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Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 00:50:04 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: G's mom
Subject: Wait A Minute
Message:
There was an initiator named 'John Hampton' who was a bit of a nazi, and looked kind of like a marine. Heavy guy.

Now, John Hammond-Smythe is somebody who posts very funny posts on the forum and I'm with VP. I hope he continues!
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Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 07:44:58 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Wait A Minute
Message:
Ah, that's it. Thanks
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:44:25 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: LAX Snafu
Message:
Mark:

Sorry we didn't connect at LAX. We lost your phone number as well as your email address. Maybe next time. Could have used a break before that ordeal of a plane ride to Oz. I now feel a brotherhood connection with sardines.

-Scott
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 01:21:45 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Sorry. That was for Mark.
Message:
I meant to post the message about LAX to Mark, but the revision of the subject line didn't get posted from IE4.

-Scott
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:03:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Sorry. That was for Mark.
Message:
Dear Scott,
Lucky for you you didn't make it to PA. You would have been here just after our water stopped working. It has been a FUN week. Hope we get the chance again soon.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:33:23 (EDT)
From: Moving this up top-MS
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
Bringing this up from below. Any ideas folks?

TD said: 'The very first video I saw of him, I thought he was full of simplistic, strange crap and now, 4 years later, I again see him as full of simplistic, strange crap.'
Ironically, it is the group members of the cult that twist his Words of Crap into enlightening Words of the Lord. Unfortunately during those 'zombified' years as a follower, I imagine a lot of us have built up strong relationships with premies who are close friends and even immediate family. These people, who are still important aspects of my life, still live in that warped mentality. It is only in the last year or so that I have 'seen the light' yet have had nobody to talk to about it. This forum has clarified my thoughts tremendously and I realise that I wasn't actually going through a few months of 'doubt that we've all been through' as suggested by my premie friends and family.

What do I do now though? I see my sister, my father and my mother in absolute awe of Maharaji and it seems like they are the bunch of zombie's in Stephen Kings Tommyknockers (a recommended film/book for ex-premies). How have you all managed to deal with this aspect? How can I win back my loved ones?

Yours Despairingly,

MS
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:55:48 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Moving this up top-MS
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
I see my sister, my father and my mother in absolute awe of Maharaji and it seems like they are the bunch of zombie's in Stephen Kings Tommyknockers (a recommended film/book for premies).
How have you all managed to deal with this aspect? How can I win back my loved ones?


I guess fortunately for me, the only family members I had who were premies where my brother and his wife who saw the light and became ex-premies years before I did. In fact, the very idea that my parents might have ever been premies is beyond my comprehension. They are too stable and down-to-earth to ever have gotten involved in anything like that.

My suggestion is to just be yourself. People have to see things in their own time when they are ready. I guess every situation is different, but I don't think going on a crusade to convince them they are following a fraud does much good. Premies are able to rationalize just about anything if they really want to. Like someone said, it's 'non-negotiable' with them. On the other hand, if it were me, I think I would be honest about my feelings and why they have changed. That's about it. I would focus on other things you have in common. Common interests, family ties, etc.

But one other point. For a number of years I was a lifeguard. One of the things they train you to do in lifesaving is that when the person you are trying to save from drowning grabs your neck, or freaks out so much that he or she might also drown you, dive under water. Since the drowning person doesn't want to go there, he or she will let go of you and then you have the opportunity to save them. The point I'm making is the first priority should be for you to take care of YOURSELF. Leaving a cult is very hard and you go through lots of changes. You likely have a lot of work to do on yourself, which you shouldn't forego to try to save your family. DON'T LET THEM PULL YOU BACK IN. That's rule numnber ONE. Then I think it's just to remember that they ARE your family and to love them. Try to be open to them, but don't fall for the guilt and fear that they may lay on you about leaving the cult.

Whatever happens, talk to ex-premies and the best of luck to you!

JW
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:09:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
One of the things they train you to do in lifesaving is that when the person you are trying to save from drowning grabs your neck, or freaks out so much that he or she might also drown you, dive under water. Since the drowning person doesn't want to go there, he or she will let go of you and then you have the opportunity to save them.

Hey, this might sound stupid but I'm just getting up. Joe, your analogy made me think if something. Oh, you're going to laugh, you're laughing already. Hey, I'm not going to tell you then. Shut up, will ya? Come on, this is a real idea.

Okay, here goes. I wonder if a person could ever pry someone out of the cult by standing right next to them and diving in to it head first. Say no one knew that you'd stopped believing in Maharaji, MS. What if you were to get completely gung ho about him, like REALLY gung ho. Whatever the traffic would bear. Isn't there some point, possibly, where your friend's own common sense (i.e. doubt) would kick in and work overtime to serve you as well as him or her? I mean, unless they are so absolutely rock-solid in their faith and already extremist to begin with. Wouldn't you be forcing them to join you in your feigned extreme faith or articulate to themselves at least all the earsons they just can't trust the trip that much?

I doubt anyone's ever tried this and who knows? Maybe it's stupid. But then, maybe it isn't. I can see the proper execution of a ploy like this doing the trick.

Otherwise, by the way, I'm not sure what you can do. Gail turned a bunch of her fellow premies on to the page, I think. Likely to no immediate avail. It ain't easy.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:03:56 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Jim
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
I don't know, Jim, it may not be a stupid idea. The final straw for me was when one Premie, trying to prove how devoted he was, told me that he 'would slit your throat right now if M told me to.' I told him that if M told me to slit his throat, I would tell M to f*** off, because then I would know he wasn't Perfect Master. That got me thinking and I was out of there in weeks! Maybe more extreme behaviour on the part of Premies would drive those with doubts right outta there! But who would be willing to return and behave in an exteme manner after tasting the freedom outside of Premiedom's walls?
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:05:04 (EDT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
Jim: in psychotherapy it's called the use of 'paradoxical intent.'
Don't know how it would work with premies, mainly because there isn't a concept of 'too much devotion' but would be an interesting experiment.

Paul
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:20:14 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Paul
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
Isn't it also a kind of 'reverse psychology?'

But Jim, it's truly a dumb idea. You would just be considered a 'bongo premie' and patronized from then on. I think most premies have a tape running through their brains that prevents them from judging M or his cult by anything premies do, especially these days. Premies never have been good examples of people who are blissfully happy. And there have always been nutso premies, so I don't think it would work. But, here is another idea.

Us exes, or a group of us, could become premies again, attend programs and just act the way we did in 1977. We could sing Arti to M, sing Lord of the Universe, wear big buttons with his picture on it, pranam and ask for darshan at introductory programs, give out prashad and charnamarit at introductory video events, carry around and distribute pictures of M doing the naked dancing, give 'satsang' even though we aren't supposed to, super-devotional of course, talk about Bal Bahgwan Ji and Mata Ji, wear lots of India-cotton clothing and polyester suits, start some ashrams and do Holi in the parking lot, pleading for M to participate, etc. It could be fun.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:26:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Fear of speaking out
Message:
But Jim, it's truly a dumb idea.

How many other people have put up with this kind of shit from Mr. Fancy Pants, big city cult leader, JW? I, personally, represent at least one if not more. This has to stop!

Katie, help me out here. Isn't there some sort of rule against ridicule and abuse here? Well there should be.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:53:16 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Be Careful
Message:
Careful Jim, you are in danger of being labeled a 'bongo ex-premie' if you continue this idea that ex-premies should become fanatical premies for whatever reason. Security has been watching you for awhile and Katie has already been circulating your picture just in case. [You think I treated you to dinner because I LIKE you? Please. It was all a ruse to get your picture. We have Laurie's too, let me tell you. By the way, EV paid a handsome price for those pics!] We have your number, kiddo. We may not ban you, (that might cause a scene, which we want to avoid) but security will follow you very closely.

So, Katie, I told him, he HAS been warned. Has the committee decided what the next step is?
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:39:09 (EDT)
From: John
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Phone call w/Joe
Message:
Hey Joe,
how ya doing.. yeah... oh no doubt, I agree definetly something has happened to Jim, so you've noticed it too?
I know, it's just sooooo wierd.
Yeah, right...that's right, ever since that trip to see the old VIP's of M's world, you know the 'famous' mike donner,
Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt about it.. he's changed.
yeah, first, he didn't tell us everything that he learned from those ex big wigs, I know like since when does JIM withhold info!
It was so obvious he was hiding stuff, but he just couldn't just keep it a secret, he had to let us know that he HAD a secret, you know?
I know, I know...don't you hate that!
Oh really? Do you REALLY think..Oh my gosh!
Well! ...and now he's talking about 'coming out' again as a premie! I KNOW! Like, MAYbe that's a stupid idea, exCUSE ME!! just the DUMBEST IDEA since the millenium of 1973, that's all!
My God, who would have thought that we'd lose our number one son?
But you can tell, he's just itching to get back to into jai sat chit ananding, ohh man it's just so sad, i feel for the guy, I really do.
So your theory is they gave him satsang about it was all M's divine lila?
Really!!
Wow, that's amazing, the poor guy was a sitting duck.
Like yeah, your absolutely right, it's always these really fanatical types that have these huge mood swings, ya know. Bigger they come, harder they fall, geez the poor guy, doomed to put in some more cult time...yeah, you're so right Joe, better him than me! yep, I couldn't have put it better myself!
Yeah, okay, e-bud, so long, gotta run too, see ya in cyber space.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:05:51 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
I think that might work if your friend had SERIOUS doubts and knew that you were NOT fooled by the cult. If he were to see you acting like a spaced out premie (in other words, like him), you might shame him to his senses. But I'm only guessing here. I've never tried it so I don't know if it would work. I only know that there have been times in my life when I acted like a jerk and my friends would snap me out of it by mimicking me, with a healthy dose of sarcasm of course.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:07:41 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: One stupid (?) idea
Message:
Your are right. One success story. I have decided to loathe the rest. It's easier that way. They weren't my friends after all.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:08:16 (EDT)
From: John
Email: None
To: Moving this up top-MS
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
Yeah, my sympathies.

My sister married a guy whose mother joined a cult soon after they got married and has never seen their kids, her grandchildren, the oldest is now 9. The kids of course are very curious about their grandmother, but she has no interest in seeing them. She doesn't want to get involved in things 'of this world'.

It's beyond sad.

I have no suggestions for you in your strange situation, other than at least be grateful you are out, and there is always hope that they will come to their senses.

I doubt there is anything you can do other than get violently ill and puke all over them whenever they mention M. Maybe they'll get the message.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:47:48 (EDT)
From: x
Email: x2000@goplay.com
To: MS
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
Hi Everyone,
I was, to be honest, starting to worry that this forum might be getting a little stale for me. This thread, though, has restored my faith in things a little. JW, that lifeguard story was not only funny, but valuable to know. I woulnn't have thought of that on my own, and if I ever find myself trying to save a drowner I will certainly remember your advice about how to avoid being accidentally drowned along with the person I'm trying to save. As far as the reverse psychology thing goes I would, say it may be worth a try, but good luck, premies in the throes of brainwashing are among the most stubborn people on Earth. Have you ever tried talking rationally to a premie? It's no different than talking to a Jehovah's Witness. MS, I don't know if you've ever read any of my past posts, but I am in a similar situation as you. I became a premie, too (when I was 8 years old!), but never really believed any of it. Both my parents (and step-parents, yikes!) are still totally into 'it'. I've actually printed up things I felt were powerful information, from here (like KK's posts), and given them to her. It didn't think it's done much, but I think it's affected her more than she lets on. I vascillate between giving up on her, and trying to deprogram her, but my advice to you is to not give up, hope for the best, and try what you can. This forum helped me a lot when I discovered it, so stick around, and add your two cents when you feel moved to.

Good Luck, and best wishes x
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 23:48:14 (EDT)
From: Selena
Email: None
To: Moving this up top-MS
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
You know I was just thinking about that movie and how much it reminded me of premies.
I agree, it's worth watching from that perspective. The people who were falling under the unfluence were not happy or even close to spiritual, they were just blindly dedicated. yup. Seen that at a few convention halls.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:46:36 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Moving this up top-MS
Subject: We just rented it
Message:
MS,

We just got 'Tommyknockers' on your recommendation. Normally don't like Stephan King that much but we'll see. Don't forget to watch South Park tonight.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:48:31 (EDT)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Moving this up top-MS
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
Do you really love them? If you really love them, why don't you enjoy seeing them happy and let them be? I know I never feel loved by someone saying I have a ''warped mentality.'' Just be honest with them, and if you really love them and they really love you, there shouldn't be any problem.

The best I have ever learned to love anyone, family member or not, is to be honest with them, let them know I love them, and allow them to be who they are and into what they want to be into. They just happen to enjoy getting high on LIFE. Maybe you need to break from them and go your own way.

I had a good friend into Amway so much I didn't like to be around her anymore. I still love her, but we have parted ways. Her whole life is Amway, and I just don't enjoy that, don't want to be around that. She needs to find her own way in life, and I mine.
We gravitate towards those who feel the way we feel. You don't like feeling enraptured by love and life as Maharaji guides, that's your choice. They love it, that's their choice. You can't choose your family, but you can choose your friends.

Live and let live. Be around them if and when you want, and away from them if and when you want.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:34:54 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: How to win back loved ones?
Message:
It is interesting that you see Amyway as for the mind-altering, life-sucking cult that it is. Are you big enough to take one more step. Compare and contrast Guru Maharaj Ji's cult with Amway. You may find the similarities startling.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:13:35 (EDT)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: no comparison
Message:
They are totally different. I'm sorry you did not practice enough to find the deep peace within. If you were sincere in your thirst when you received Knowledge, maybe someday you will. If you just got into it for other reasons, maybe you never will.

My friend in Amway called me up and told me her cousin was starting a business and needed someone to help manage it, and set up an interview for me to apply for a job. I was very hurt to discover that it was Amway. She said they told her to do it that way. Amway offers nothing that is remotely simmilar to what Maharaji offers.

Well, I'm going to go practice now. I wish you peace.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:14:15 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: KNOWLEDGE TAKES UP TOO MUCH
Message:
There are many similarities between Amyway and MJ's cult. Both require a lifetime committment. Both take up way too much time. Both have a poor ROI.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 13:13:45 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: no comparison
Message:
red heart wrote: 'I'm sorry you did not practice enough to find the deep peace within. If you were sincere in your thirst when you received Knowledge, maybe someday you will. If you just got into it for other reasons, maybe you never will.'

Ah, the old premie self-righteousness! So refreshing!!
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:23:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: desparate argument
Message:
red, baby,

Last time I looked you'd ducked out rather than answer something. Whatever. Who cares? Life moves on.

But listen, honey bunny, your entire argument is premised on an assumption you can't afford to honestly consider, or make that 'reconsider'. You claim that Gail couldn't possibly have experienced what you have and still walk away. What if that's not true?

Did you know that scientists are doing some very interesting work these days in brain research? Specifically, did you know that scientists are now able to apparently replicate 'spiritual' experiences with just a little electrical stimulation? This is on the level, red heart. I kid you not. My guess is that a hundred years from now, we're all going to have a different notion of the brain's capabilities and 'God' and all his neighbours are going to be pushed back further and further.

Think of it. Ten thousand years ago gods were everything, everywhere, responsible for all sorts of stuff we now have quite secular explanations for. Anybody remember eclipses, by chance? How about a little rain?

So you get a warm, familiar buzz when you delve into the white noise of knowledge. No, don't bother telling me about your experience versus mine. I was really into meditation, loved it and sometimes was even able to blow my mind if I tried hard enough. And no, I didn't THINK I was trying, I, too, would have attributed it all to Maharaji's grace.

Here's a little story Gary Ockenden told me. In '74, when Mahatma Tejeshwaranand went to Nelson, B.C. (a hippie enclave that became a premie enclave for a bit). Tej gave very 'inspired' satsang to the whole town that nbight. There must have been 500 hundred people if not more at the hall we rented. Tej told us all that right there and then he saw, for the first time, that he was one of the original disciples of Jesus. It was really something, sorry you missed it.

So, that night he gave k to not one, not two but three grtoups of people. Around the clock. It was amazing. People were reporting outrageous experiences. I swear over half the people, if not a lot more (I can't exactly remember) reported seeing Maharji, Shri Hans and all sorts of former satgurus in the light. There was undeniably a lot of grace.

Anyway, recently I was discussing Tej's sexual adventures during the time he was in B.C. Gary told me about one score I wasn't aware of. Apparently Tej had knocked up some sister in Nelson. That surprised me because I knew he hadn't been in Nelson all that long (after all, he had a virtual harem on hold in Vancouver!). When could he have done it? Gary then told me that during the knowledge sessions, Tej asked Gary -- not then an initiator -- to spell him for a while. So Gary took over doing the light technique to people while Tej took a rest. That's when he fucked her.

Now, think about it, red. I'm not even asking you to decide away from yourself (I just made that phrase up. Do you like it?) or anything. I'm just asking you to honestly think about it a bit. Can you honestly say that these people were all experiencing something divine?
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 16:42:07 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: and another thing, red
Message:
Besides the fact that I misspelled 'desperate'.

Red, it is drop-dead outrageous for anyone in this cult to pontificate about 'live and let live'. Never mind the facts that Maharaji spent more than a decade urging us to drop everything and 'beat the great drums of satsang'. You want quotes? Go get them yourself. They're the substance of all the old satsangs.

But even now, when he's SO much subtler (i.e. evasive, defensive, paranoid, and caught in so many lies he can barely open his mouth), even now he still tries to tell people how to live. That's what being the 'master' is all about, stupid.

No, Maharaji's broken up way too many families, diverted way too many lives, and all of that to ever get credit for being a little less pushy than Amway.

Hey, why don't you get something happening over on the new premie page? David's supplied the link above. Go on, I won't follow you there. Maybe you can get some premies to get a bit of a campfire happening. (I'm not, for a moment, suggesting you stop posting here. Just it would be good for people to be able to express their love, don't you think?).
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:15:02 (EDT)
From: red heart
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: and another thing, red
Message:
he tells people how to live only in the sense of how to make our own commitment to ourselves, our own lives, top priority. what people do in their lives, he has said again and again and again, it's not any of his business. how much more clearly do you have to hear it? fact is, he's the chosen scapegoat by a lot of people who made their own choices by interpreting what he has said in order to do what they wanted to do anyway -- whether it be that they wanted to be divorced or repressed or whatever. it's THEIR choices they have made, and it's no fun to take responsibility for their own actions, so Maharaji is someone convenient to blame for all their problems. anybody who comes to Maharaji to experience fulfillment, and sincerely follows his guidance, guess what? They get it! but you are not getting it and you won't get it until and unless that is what you decide you want.

but that wouldn't be the ex-premie party line.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:36:25 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: and another thing, red
Message:
red heart,
I think you've got it all wrong. No one is blaming maharaji. All we're saying is 'We want our money back'. Oh, also our time, and energy. Oh, and also... say, this damn knowledge thing doesn't work. Have you been able to get it to work? Damn thing won't start in the morning. I tried to start it later in the day, thinking it might be too cold in the morning, but damn if it won't start then either. Now I know maharaji made some good knowledge so it can't be that, but shit, what's the trick? What do you have to do to get this damn thing to work?

Oh yeah, there's also the thing about some funny business going in maharaji's organization - like his drinking and cheating on his wife. Say, that's not true is it? Oh yeah, and what about this thing of child molestation by his top people. Jesus, red heart, I don't know what to think. But say, if you could put in a good word to help us get our money back, I think it would go a long way to smooth things over.
Rick
healing the blame in 98
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
Specifically, did you know that scientists are now able to apparently replicate 'spiritual' experiences with just a little electrical stimulation?

Do you know of any sites or good books to look further into this matter? I once had an experience, out of the blue, which I attribute to being a visit from the Father Almighty. It wasn't a visit from any personage, as such, it was just a feeling of being loved by an infinitely merciful being. I didn't have any visions or anything, just the feeling. Are you familiar with any scientific explanations on this particular phenomena? If so, could you help me out?
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:17:00 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Jerry
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
This post of yours made me think. Are you being sarcastic here or genuinely curious? I think some of the scientific explainations for some ununderstood phenomena are just as far fetched as the paranormal explainations. Also, a lot of false and misleading reports are given, on both sides.

For example. I watched a TV program about putting astranauts in centrifuges and giving them wierd and wonderful experiences. However, since then I've heard people talk about that same TV program and actually add their own extra bit of fiction to it, to suit their particular viewpoint. You can't believe everything you hear, that's for sure and I think you have to be a perfectionist and delve into things in great detail in order to get anywhere near the truth.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 21:51:54 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
This post of yours made me think. Are you being sarcastic here or genuinely curious?

Genuinely curious. Actually, what I'd really like to do if time and the opportunity allowed it, is to be a guinea pig in one of these experiments. Then I would know for sure if scientists really can reproduce the experience I had in a lab. I'll tell you, if they can, they'll never get me out of the lab, it was that perfect a state of being. The residue of it inspires me to this day, 15 years later.

It's interesting that you couldn't tell if I was being sarcastic or genuinely curious. After I posted it, when I re-read it, I got the same impression; will people know if I'm being serious or sarcastic? Is that a statement about this kind of medium? I don't know. Before Ex-Premie.Org, I never communicated with people through this type of format. I guess it takes practice to make yourself clear in cyberspace.
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:15:42 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
Rhea White has an organization devoted to study of what she calls the Exceptional Human Experience (EHE). EHE's are experiences of 'non-ordinary' reality and can take many forms such as out-of-body experiences, mystical experiences, NDE's, dreams, intuitions; even falling in love. These are experiences that take us out of ordinary everyday contexts.

exceptional human experience network

Rhea edits a voluminous reference journal that comes out twice a year.

Rhea was a parapsychological researcher for 30 to 40 years. Then she realized that it wasn't so important whether to 'prove' or 'disprove' whether these phenomena exist -- the experimental setups are highly dubious themselves. What is important is the meaning. How do these experiences personally affect the experiencer. Rhea encourages people to write their own EHE autobiography.
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Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 05:33:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: my favorite part
Message:
Then she realized that it wasn't so important whether to 'prove' or 'disprove' whether these phenomena exist -- the experimental setups are highly dubious themselves.

So she quit. Fine then. But what's the money for?

'We are grateful for any contributions of any size. Click here for Future Plans to see ways you can help support EHEN. Whether you are interested in supporting a specific project or simply prefer to give a sum to support our work in general, please make a check payable in U.S. funds to the EHE Network. We appreciate your generosity very much! Donors are usually listed by name (but not amount) in EHE News. We also plan to implement a donor-name page on our Website to recognize and thank you for your generosity. Of course, if you do not wish your gift to be publicly acknowledged, please let us know when you send it.'
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Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 08:56:43 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
Thanks, Bobby. I've bookmarked the page and will be browsing it when time allows (like when the boss isn't snooping about).
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Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 22:31:22 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Scientific experiments
Message:
Dear Jerry - you have written about this experience once before. I have had a couple of experiences like this, although nothing of this magnitude (I won't go into detail here). I felt like I was experiencing something that I could NOT have imagined with my conscious brain no matter how hard I tried.

I'm still undecided as to the source of these experiences - as Mike said above - if white is thinking that they are definitely spiritual and black is thinking that they are 'brain poop', I am in the gray area. What I do know is that they changed my life for the better. I am not really interested in researching them - not that they could be researched - they had to do with specific people and circumstances.

I would feel very lucky if I had an experience like yours. For one thing, it sounds like you really got to experience unconditional love, which is something most of us can only imagine. I think actually having an experience like this would change someone's life.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but just thought I'd comment.
Regards from Katie
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:40:38 (EDT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: red heart
Subject: no comparison
Message:
You said, 'I'm sorry you did not practice enough to find the deep peace within.'

This is a twisted insincere apology if I ever saw one!!! Don't you know:
You can never practice enough, you can never do enough, you will never know enough, you don't deserve anything...and on and on.

So what are you practicing for? Don't answer, don't want it!
Carol
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:27:55 (EDT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A Comparison
Message:
I attended an Insight Meditation (Vipassana) retreat last week and I thought for the benefit of any aspirants or premie lurkers that I would provide a source of comparison for M, that great teacher of meditation.
The teacher/leader at the retreat:

-Followed the daily schedule with all the participants
-Stayed in the same accomodations(dorms), ate the same food
-Considered interaction, questions and answers, to be of vital importance and held individual and group sessions
-Coached participants in their practice. 'there is no need to surrender your life to a guru, but a coach can be helpful.'
-Encouraged participants to do whatever meditation they were most comfortable with, and not necessarily those techniques he was teaching.
-Encouraged people to attend retreats led by other teachers
and that he did not see himself as having (nor wanting) any 'personal students.'
-As a former teacher of physics, math and philosophy(as well as former Zen monk) he had a depth of knowledge and experience which he applied to his teaching
-Posted his home address, phone #, e-mail and fax in case anyone had questions following the retreat.

The experience I had was quite wonderful (though the subject for another thread)

Paul
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:41:25 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Paul
Subject: A Comparison
Message:
I've also attended one of these Vipassana courses years ago.
Same feeling.

I also advise it for those interested in meditation.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:19:30 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Belated congratulations
Message:
Hey Nigel,

really well done man, you should be mucho proud of yourself. I didn't want to read your Job post when it first came on the forum 'cos I was waiting for my own situation to develop work-wise.

Here's what happened.

I have been working in a psychomteric research lab for the last four years where I had been promised a PhD program (at least an MPhil) but it got away from me. (Academic politics!)

The research money (military of course) has finally run out and I had applied for a place on a PGCE postgrad course so's I could teach secondary maths. Unfortunately, the stress from home (disabled wife, two kids) peaked on the day before my interview, I reacted badly to some aggressive questioning on A Level Maths and ended up having a stand-up row with the Head of Maths. Not a wise move? Anyway I managed to salvage a second interview which was due the day after your Good News post. I just coudn't bare to read it until afterwards.

Happily I did what I had to do, they will recommend me for the course and I wait to hear official confirmation from registry etc.

So now I feel able to offer you my heart-felt congratulations, go for Nigel, you know you can do it.

Yeah there do seem to be some parallels.

I've got your email Nigel and I promise to get in touch.

The only down-side is I will lose my internet connection and email until I can either equip myself or find the odd friendly cyber cafe.

Take care Nigel, I'm really pleased for you (and me).

regards

Richard
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:12:58 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Richard
Subject: Belated congratulations
Message:
Dear Richard,
I hope it goes well and you get approved or whatever you would call it. You will be sorely missed here dear and I hope you can make it back soon. You are a good man Richard and have a lot to deal with and I hope things go well for you. We'll be anxously awaiting your return!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:38:30 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Richard
Subject: Belated congratulations
Message:
Thanks very much Richard, most appreciated.

From what you're saying here it sounds like congrats are in order for you too (I assume the registry bit is a formality). That's great news. Well done! I've seen how tough it can be for friends of mine to get on a PGCE placement, so for you to swing it after upsetting the Head of Maths looks near-miraculous. (NB: I said near miraculous!) Who needs Grace?

Well done again, and I hope it all works out, Richard. I look forward to chatting to you whenever. Try and get on-line soon.

(The other CV similarity between us was my working in computer programming for some years before going to college.)

Regards, Nigel
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:46:35 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Just finished an article in the latest issue of Skeptic called 'Talking Twaddle with the Dead' about the fake psychic James Van Praagh some of you might have seen on various talk shows recently. The author has some interesting thoughts about how people succumb so easily to bullshit and whether the con is self-deceiving as well as tricking his subjects. Good magazine.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:37:53 (EDT)
From: Becky
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
I'd love to know why us human beings are so impressionable. It's quite scary how the slightest thing can change your mind about things, or draw you in to something. They say that most people who get into cults are of above-average intelligence. Is because bright people get depressed with the world's mundanity, are more complex and find it difficult to cope or to be at peace with themselves, and are therefore seeking a higher something that can handle those complexities?
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:23:51 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Becky
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Becky wrote:
'They say that most people who get into cults are of above-average intelligence.'

True, very true. You only have to read this forum to see that!?

What I can't understand is how such geniuses like us can spend over a decade following a guy who clearly is not academic, who talks in generalities and vague riddles and who clearly is the exact opposite to our ideals of what God could be. How come we fell for it?
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:50:01 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Becky
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Becky, I think you are on to something when you talk about the 'mundane' world. I think there is something in us that wants to be in 'awe.' We don't want mundane explanantions, it takes the magic out of life. But wait! Why can't we be in awe even when we know the explanantion (scientific, for example). I think it's pretty awesome that a simple bag-of-molecules (me) can communicate with another simple bag-of-molecules (no disrespect intended...you). The whole 'life' thing is incredibly awesome, even though we have a pretty good handle on how it started and evolved. I look thru my telescope (literally) and see things that have been explained, but it is still awesome to look into Orion and see a star-chamber (birthplace of stars to this very day). It IS awesome and it doesn't require me to pranam to an M to appreciate it for what it is. Maybe I'm being overly simplistic here, but that just about sums up the way I see things. Our desire to know how things work is a double-edged sword; it can take the fun out of the thing we know (that's the other edge of the sword). But, you know, even with the true explanation, life is still AWESOME.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:45:15 (EDT)
From: John
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Yo, Mike:

I've never understood why appreciating the scientific view implies to some people that you can not appreciate the 'magic' of life. I agree completely with you that knowing how it works makes it even more incredible. That's why I loved studying chemistry when I went back to college. It made me appreciate even more the magic and wonder of 'this' life. And it made me less respectful of someone like our former guru. When I was following him, he had the typical teenager's view of human knowledge and achievements and education. Namely, that it's somehow stupid. He probably grew out of that. Most 40 yr olds have a humbler view than they did as teenagers.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:44:26 (EDT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: John
Subject: To Life!
Message:
Hi, I've never studied higher math or music, but when I took classes for being an elementary teacher I learned a lot more than I'd ever known about theory in both subjects. It was very impressive to learn about all the patterns and relationships. It was 'magical' and awesome! I thought, if only the teachers of math to students could convey this to the students, no one would hate math! I studied much more in science: biology, anatomy and physiology, microbiology, chemistry.

Most of us take for granted how richly complex the known world is, and then there's the unknown yet to be known!
carol
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:43:23 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: To Life!
Message:
Although he tended to overuse some phrases like, 'billions and billions,' I think this is what made Carl Sagan such a great teacher of astronomy. He had the ability to tailor his discussion to the audience and yet fully convey the awe and wonder he had for the universe. A very talented man. I absolutely agree; that is a skill I wish all of our teachers had in full measure. If it were, our kids wouldn't want to come home at night, they would want to stay at school. So... be one of those teachers, ok??? :-)
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:46:48 (EDT)
From: MS
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Well said! I agree with you 100%

Say, have you ever thought of starting up a cult... ;-)

MS
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:37:54 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: MS
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
...snicker...chordle... Only the shadow knows! :-)
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:54:15 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Mike
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
When I was 19, I wanted to believe in all that magical stuff and I read all that Ramakrishna, Autobiography of a Yogi, etc., stuff. I wanted the world to work that way, and I was willing to ignore my own brain to believe such stuff. After leaving DLM, I started to read books on science, but stuff for laypeople (Sagan, Gould, Thomas) and realized that whether one believed that God created the world or not, the world was really amazing. Whether one believes in God or not, one must admit that the world is full of awe and wonder.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:01:23 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
ABSOLUTELY I agree with you. This is one area where, if we view it with open eyes, anyone could agree. God or no God; creation or natural physical laws; it's sheer amazement from end-to-end. My point, and yours too (I think): It doesn't take the influence of an M to appreciate it. In fact, I don't believe he really appreciates it at all when the only statements he can make about it are the same ones he's been repeating for years (my parrot can do that). Well, ok, maybe it's not lack of appreciation, but rather lack of education that's involved here... snicker :-)
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:35:52 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Becky
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
They say that most people who get into cults are of above-average intelligence. Is because bright people get depressed with the world's mundanity, are more complex and find it difficult to cope or to be at peace with themselves, and are therefore seeking a higher something that can handle those complexities?

For me, personally, I think drugs was the deciding factor. I think my critical faculties had become so impaired through the use of hallucinogens that by the time M came into my life I was ready to believe anything.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 16:31:28 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Jerry: Dulling of your faculties would certainly contribute to your susceptability, but 'why' did you use hallucinogens in the first place? I don't think it was because you wanted to be susceptable to a crackpot. I think Becky's comment concerning the 'mundane' applies here, too. Were you looking for a way to spice up the universe a bit? Looking for a 'new' way to see things, as opposed to the same old ordinary way? Just a thought... ;-)
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:04:09 (EDT)
From: seymour
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
'our kids wouldn't want to come home at night, they would want to stay at school.'

I couldn't agree more there is so much going on - how can anyone ever be bored? we are speeding across an endless Universe without a clue about where we came from or where we are going.

'When I was 19, I wanted to believe in all that magical stuff and I read all that Ramakrishna, Autobiography of a Yogi, etc., stuff. I wanted the world to work that way'

Didn't we all. I still believe in magic - All you need is Love combined with a bit of trust. That's magic

'. God or no God; creation or natural physical laws; it's sheer amazement from end-to-end'

And How !

'. I think my critical faculties had become so impaired through the use of hallucinogens that by the time M came into my life I was ready to believe anything.'

''why' did you use hallucinogens in the first place? '

why not?

Hi y'all,
Seymour.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:44:00 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Hi, Mike. Sheesh, you're asking me questions. Don't you know that hurts my noggin? Whaddya wanna do that for? Anyway, here goes.

Dulling of your faculties would certainly contribute to your susceptability...

We agree.

...but 'why' did you use hallucinogens in the first place? I don't think it was because you wanted to be susceptable to a crackpot. I think Becky's comment concerning the 'mundane' applies here, too...

You're right, Becky's comment does apply here. My life was extremely mundane when mine and M's paths crossed. While I believe this was a factor in my falling for M, I don't believe it was the determining factor. That I believe was my damaged reasoning capabilities.

...Were you looking for a way to spice up the universe a bit? Looking for a 'new' way to see things, as opposed to the same old ordinary way?

I'm not sure if this question is in relation to hallucinogens or BM but in both cases, yes, I was looking to spice up the universe a bit (I still am, actually). And as far as a new way to see things, if you mean 'new' along with fun and rewarding, yes, and I'm still looking. I only hope I'm wiser now and can avoid the same pitfalls I fell into in the past.

Now can I put my brain back to sleep, please? It's a much more comfortable state for me, y'know.
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Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:07:15 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Jerry: Sorry, I didn't mean to cause you any pain.... ;-)

Yes, I was actually talking in relation to the hallucinogens when referring to spicing things up. Thanks for the answers.... good stuff.
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 22:52:03 (EDT)
From: Selena
Email: None
To: Becky
Subject: An interesting analogue
Message:
Becky I agree with you. I do think intelligence causes some people to search for answers or be more sensitive or depressed with the world around them. It sounds snotty I suppose but I have seen it over and over. The less you think about something the less it's going to bother you. But I have certainly met my share of premies who were one fry short of a happy meal, so I don't know...
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 00:54:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Brian - I'm confused
Message:
Brian,

Looking over the floor plan for Maharaji's house has really confused me. What's that big section in the middle? Does anyone know? Is that Maharaji's world or something?
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Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:35:17 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Jim
Subject: Brian - I'm confused
Message:
Gee, Jim. When I saw the topic I thought you might be experiencing a moment of clarity. Guess not.

The side of the lower level that lacks windows is embankment. I'm told the upper level extends into it farther and is actually heart-shaped. But I dunno. Gotta see the prints myself.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:21:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Why didn't I think of this?
Message:
This little gem, hot off the press, made me realize that Bob Hoskins just might not be my favorite choice of actor to play Maharaji after all:

'Actor Gary Coleman allegedly punched a woman Thursday during an altercation at a uniform shop that arose from her requesting his autograph, said police who sought to question the ``Diff'rent Strokes'' star.

Witnesses said Coleman, a customer at the store, had given the woman an autograph when she asked him to write something to her son, according to Lt. James McInerny. He refused and handed the paper back with a racial comment, the officer said.

``She made a comment about his acting ability, and he punched her right in the eye,'' McInerny said. ``She was hit several times before a bystander, who happened to be an off-duty L.A. Airport police officer, broke up the fight.''

The woman identified by police only as Mrs. Fields is apparently a Los Angeles bus driver, McInerny said.

Detectives were trying to contact Coleman, and McInerny said he would request an arrest warrant if the actor didn't cooperate.

``We'd like to interview him and get his version,'' he said. ``We'd like to have both side's versions to present to the district attorney'' for determination of possible assault and battery charges, the officer said.

The 30-year-old actor found fame as a child star on TV's ``Diff'rent Strokes,'' then saw his fortunes wane.'
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