Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 20 | |
From: Jul 29, 1998 |
To: Aug 8, 1998 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
Sir David -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:27:45 (EDT) __Gail -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:38:13 (EDT) ____Malibu Mole -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:52:29 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Holy Shit! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:13:15 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 06:15:17 (EDT) ______Sir David -:- Compassionate Marolyn, trapped -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 07:11:18 (EDT) ______JW -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:19:48 (EDT) ________TD -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 05:23:10 (EDT) __________Gail -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:36:41 (EDT) ____________TD -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:56:16 (EDT) ______________Katie -:- Wedding Video -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:05:28 (EDT) ________________Jim -:- I admit -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:30:36 (EDT) __________________TD -:- I admit -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:56:46 (EDT) ________________TD -:- Wedding Video -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:46:38 (EDT) ______________Gail -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:16:00 (EDT) ________________TD -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:44:10 (EDT) ________________JW -:- The name Monica Lew... -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 15:13:59 (EDT) __david m -:- Compassionate Marolyn -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:46:58 (EDT) ____Runamok -:- Bill Gates the compassionate 1 -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:08:04 (EDT) ______Richard -:- Can't ration compassion -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:46:38 (EDT) ________Carol -:- Kids? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:27:13 (EDT) __________Selena -:- Kids? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:54:12 (EDT) ____________John -:- Shed no tears for ex Durga ji -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:39:00 (EDT) ______________Jim -:- Shed no tears for ex Durga ji -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:44:11 (EDT) ________VP -:- Escape route for Marolyn -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:33:39 (EDT) __________Gail -:- The kids are approx. aged -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:51:43 (EDT) ____________VP -:- The kids are approx. aged -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:10:49 (EDT) Gail -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:15:20 (EDT) __Rick -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:28:21 (EDT) __Sir David -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:45:46 (EDT) __JW -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 21:19:28 (EDT) ____Sir David -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:07:30 (EDT) ______Jim -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:42:49 (EDT) ________Gerry -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:53:55 (EDT) ________Gail -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:55:03 (EDT) __________VP -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:09:57 (EDT) ____________Carol -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:04:08 (EDT) ______JW -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:51:22 (EDT) ________Jean-Michel -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:04:31 (EDT) __________JW -:- REALLY???? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:18:21 (EDT) ____________Jim -:- I resent that too! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:55:25 (EDT) __________VP -:- Pictures of the exs -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:27:53 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Pictures of the exs -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:38:51 (EDT) ______________Jean-Michel -:- They DO have pictures -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 03:13:57 (EDT) ________________Jim -:- They DO have pictures -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:52:06 (EDT) ____Bill Cooper -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:30:50 (EDT) ______Mickey the Pharisee -:- Slack!!! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:36:30 (EDT) ______wait a minute.. -:- correction -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:10:11 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- GOALS context -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 03:54:04 (EDT) ____Rick -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:16:42 (EDT) __Jerry -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:19:46 (EDT) __TD -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:53:17 (EDT) ____MS -:- MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:42:01 (EDT) Carol -:- book: Three Continents -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:32:55 (EDT) __VP -:- book: Three Continents -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:27:28 (EDT) __eb -:- book: Three Continents -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 19:04:11 (EDT) Carol -:- Miles Armstrong form Portland -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:26:16 (EDT) __Carol -:- How about you Maharaji?? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:31:08 (EDT) __Bobby -:- Miles Armstrong form Portland -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 10:08:44 (EDT) ____Carol -:- Miles Armstrong form Portland -:- Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 15:46:48 (EDT) Katie -:- TD's post about the forum -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 10:23:27 (EDT) __RT -:- TD's post about the forum! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:44:43 (EDT) ____Rick -:- TD's post about the forum! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:52:16 (EDT) __John -:- My very strong opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:45:27 (EDT) ____Jim -:- My very strong opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:51:25 (EDT) ______Selena -:- My very strong opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:14:00 (EDT) ________Katie -:- My very strong opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:41:08 (EDT) ________VP -:- Advice for forum use -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:00:27 (EDT) __________Mike -:- Advice for forum use -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:03:54 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- Advice for forum use -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 16:58:04 (EDT) ____________VP -:- Robyn :) -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:29:51 (EDT) ______________Selena -:- Robyn :) and all :) -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:01:13 (EDT) ________________VP -:- Selena :) and all :) -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:36:21 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Jim, I never said you were -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:41:57 (EDT) ________Carol -:- The other side,too -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:00:38 (EDT) __________Carol -:- Or was it G's Mom? -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:02:04 (EDT) ______John -:- My strong ambivalent opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:43:03 (EDT) ____Katie -:- My very strong opinion -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:31:10 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Easy to say, you guys -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:42:46 (EDT) ________Selena -:- I'm not saying I am perfec -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:52:13 (EDT) __________Katie -:- Definitely imperfect as well -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:01:58 (EDT) ____________Jim -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:09:03 (EDT) ______________Katie -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:14:43 (EDT) ________________Jim -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:19:28 (EDT) __________________Carol -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:10:15 (EDT) ____________________Jim -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:51:55 (EDT) __________________Robyn -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:12:11 (EDT) ____________________Jim -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:53:40 (EDT) ______________________Robyn -:- I really resent that! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 21:36:44 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Get real -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:04:56 (EDT) ____________Selena -:- now WE are doing it! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:32:51 (EDT) ______________Carol -:- now WE are doing it! -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:17:33 (EDT) __Richard -:- TIME OUT : A FUNNY STORY -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:42:34 (EDT) ____Selena -:- TIME OUT : A FUNNY STORY -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:43:05 (EDT) ____Peter -:- don't get caught... -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:04:40 (EDT) __Jerry -:- TD's post about the forum -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 21:19:32 (EDT) ____TD -:- IMHO -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 23:19:54 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:26:58 (EDT) ________TD -:- Thanks Gerry... -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 04:49:19 (EDT) ______Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:32:32 (EDT) ________TD -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 07:26:46 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:00:36 (EDT) ________carol -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:18:32 (EDT) __________Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:38:57 (EDT) ____Katie -:- TD's post about the forum -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:29:05 (EDT) ______Jerry -:- TD's post about the forum -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 10:05:04 (EDT) Becky -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:17:24 (EDT) __Gerry -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:04:46 (EDT) __Jim -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:31:21 (EDT) ____Becky -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:10:02 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:16:38 (EDT) ______Selena -:- Love your rational mind -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:54:17 (EDT) ________Becky -:- Love your rational mind -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:20:31 (EDT) __________Jerry -:- Love your rational mind -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:18:46 (EDT) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Love your rational mind -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:30:32 (EDT) ______________Jerry -:- The gospel of Q -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:20:27 (EDT) ________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- The gospel of Q -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:34:53 (EDT) __________________Jim -:- How about this book? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:51:45 (EDT) ____________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- How about this book? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:11:40 (EDT) ______________________Jim -:- How about this book? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:16:53 (EDT) ________________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- How about this book? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:26:29 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Love your rational mind -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:38:06 (EDT) ____________Becky -:- Love your rational mind -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 08:20:58 (EDT) ______________Jim -:- Love your incomplete answer -:- Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 15:23:54 (EDT) TD -:- The Prem Pal Show -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:48:36 (EDT) __Sir David Cheddar -:- The Prem Pal Show -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:29:05 (EDT) ____TD -:- The Prem Pal Show -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 09:49:24 (EDT) ______G's mom -:- divine boyfriends.... -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:07:40 (EDT) ____G's mom -:- Dance Dance dance -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:13:52 (EDT) ______wray -:- Dance Dance dance -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:57:52 (EDT) ____Selena -:- The Prem Pal Show the dance -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:18:10 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Daya's Boyfriend -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:22:08 (EDT) ________Mike -:- Daya's Boyfriend -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:39:51 (EDT) __________Katie -:- FYI Wadi Sue -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:12:05 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- FYI Wadi Sue -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:20:27 (EDT) ______________Selena -:- embarrassed -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:36:39 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- embarrassed -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:25:25 (EDT) ______Cheddar -:- The Prem Pal Show the dance -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:30:40 (EDT) ________Gail -:- The Prem Pal Show the dance -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:44:45 (EDT) ________P -:- Warning: satsang within!! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:22:56 (EDT) __________Mike -:- Warning: satsang within!! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:54:06 (EDT) ____Carol -:- Sir David -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:18:32 (EDT) ______Sir David -:- Sir David -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:07:03 (EDT) __JW -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:23:05 (EDT) ____Mark -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:53:58 (EDT) ______JW -:- Good for Nancy -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 16:54:26 (EDT) ____TD -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 19:49:58 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:18:31 (EDT) ______JW -:- Of Fat Naked Dancing Pictures -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:48:10 (EDT) ________TD -:- Things to do with the photos.. -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:52:00 (EDT) __________VP -:- Playing tennis with God -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:39:25 (EDT) ____________TD -:- Playing tennis with God -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:25:11 (EDT) __________Jim -:- A comedy classic -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:30:55 (EDT) __________Selena -:- Things to do with the photos.. -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:11:03 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Things to do with the photos.. -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:01:01 (EDT) ______________Selena -:- Video with the photos.!!! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:45:05 (EDT) ________________Gail -:- Video with the photos.!!! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:21:14 (EDT) __________Carol -:- Things to do with the photos.. -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:42:29 (EDT) ________Becky -:- Of Fat Naked Dancing Pictures -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:22:45 (EDT) __________Becky -:- what about his dick? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:24:49 (EDT) ____________John -:- Hey Becky -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:26:46 (EDT) ______________Gail -:- Hey Becky -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:24:08 (EDT) ____________Selena -:- what about his dick? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:53:45 (EDT) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- what about his dick? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:15:34 (EDT) ______________Robyn -:- what about his dick? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:56:55 (EDT) ________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- what about his dick? -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 02:08:30 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- what about his dick? -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:39:37 (EDT) ____Carol -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:30:42 (EDT) ______John -:- Finally some honesty! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:33:25 (EDT) ________JW -:- Finally some honesty! -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:46:18 (EDT) __________VP -:- M needs a 'bro' -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:01:36 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- M needs a 'bro' -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:15:55 (EDT) ______Selena -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:49:30 (EDT) ______JW -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:06:57 (EDT) ______Gail -:- Of Dancing and Close Seats -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:28:39 (EDT) VP -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:38:01 (EDT) __Gerry -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:47:41 (EDT) ____did you see how we -:- posted at the same time! -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:51:59 (EDT) ____VP -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:06:39 (EDT) ______Jim -:- Absolutely great idea! -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:09:23 (EDT) ______VP -:- Becoming Aware -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:10:45 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:12:19 (EDT) ________Gail -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:26:01 (EDT) __Robyn -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:48:59 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- Quote of the day -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:04:10 (EDT) ______Robyn -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:02:08 (EDT) ____VP -:- You are welcome -:- Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:16:27 (EDT) __TD -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:28:42 (EDT) ____VP -:- Go for it, TD -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:11:35 (EDT) __Jerry -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:49:00 (EDT) __Mike -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:41:41 (EDT) __Selena -:- Thursday Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:23:28 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Thursday Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:32:31 (EDT) ____VP -:- Thursday Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:01:57 (EDT) ______Selena -:- Thursday Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:09:19 (EDT) ________VP -:- Quotes as we find them. -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:19:11 (EDT) __Mike -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:56:21 (EDT) ____Selena -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:00:07 (EDT) ______Mike -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:32:19 (EDT) ______RT -:- Quote of the Cycle -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:40:56 (EDT) __JW -:- One of My Favorites -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:26:22 (EDT) ____VP -:- like a bag of potato chips... -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:57:11 (EDT) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Quote of the day -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:48:44 (EDT) __Jim -:- A keeper -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:15:27 (EDT) ____VP -:- A keeper -:- Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:42:19 (EDT) ______Selena -:- A keeper -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:58:31 (EDT) ________VP -:- A keeper -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:46:52 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- A keeper -:- Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:23:05 (EDT) ______Jim -:- A keeper -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:26:11 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- A keeper -:- Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:14:00 (EDT) |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:27:45 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: Way back in the seventies shortly after Maharaji and Marolyn got married Marolyn questioned Maharaji about the suffering in the world. I cannot repeat word for word how the conversation went because it was relayed to me by someone who knew Marolyn. The gist of it was though that Marolyn was very upset at all the suffering in the world that she had seen and was aware of. This happened in the heady days when premies really believed that Maharaji was the Lord who had come to save the world. Marolyn implored Maharaji to do something about the suffering she had witnessed. She gave examples of people starving in famines or dying horribly through wars and she asked Maharaji when would he end all this terrible suffering. Maharaji's answer to her was to be patient because he would bring an end to all this suffering in time. Now what struck me about this little event was not Maharaji's answer to be patient but the honest sincerety and concerned compassion of Marolyn for all of the world's suffering peoples. Not that we don't all feel such compassion because most people do from time to time. But until I heard this story I just considered Marolyn to be a rather standoffish devotee who was only interested in Maharaji. And most of her satsang was about clothes. So picture this. There's this beautiful woman who is filled with compassion for people and she truly believes that her husband is God in human form who is going to wipe all this suffering away for good. Now at what point did she realise that her husband's promise to end the suffering was mere empty words? At what point did she stop asking her husband to save the world and at what point did she give up the dream and accept that her husband wasn't God in human form after all? At some point, the bottom fell out of Marolyn's life. And how did this once compassionate woman come to terms with the fact that she'd been conned by her husband and at what point did she decide to settle for second best and forget about this world's suffering? And how long did it take for her to make the change from God's compassionate wife to the wife of a mere master who was into other women? She gave up on compassion and for sure, Maharaji did nothing to encourage it. So spare a thought for Marolyn the compassionate, who once hoped to see an end to the world's suffering. Somewhere along the way she lost it and such altruistic feelings were swallowed up by devotion to her master. She may live in luxury and have servants waiting on her hand and foot but that's no substitute for the dream she once had. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:38:13 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: I always liked listening to her. She made more sense than MJ. It is really nice to hear that she truly believed all this at one time. She has had one hell of a life. Who knows. Maybe she was threatened with the loss of custody of her children. Remember when she said that she kept asking MJ if she should leave the kids and go back to the ashram? She said, 'He would just laugh.' I have heard a few stories about her. She is just as kind and gracious as ever. She continues to be quite humble. She is willing to do the laundry, too. As MJ says, 'I just can't slow her down.' I think she still believes he is the lord or else she is really good at fooling others. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:52:29 (EDT)
From: Malibu Mole Email: inside To: Gail Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: Marolyn may help with the laundry, but she certainly has plenty of dirty linen. Have your friend Johnson ask her about John Orzano.He and Marolyn had a long term affair in the late 80's.Those of us working here knew. Also ask her about when she told Maharaji she wanted to leave him, and he said if she did, he'd make sure she never saw her kids again. Then the drunken public behavior she exhibited, abusing him in front of the inner circle. Things are not always how they seem. Sad but true. Housebroken, she remains, after her illness, a readjusted and loyal wife for all to see. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:13:15 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Holy Shit! Message: Hey Mr. Mole, Don't you think that Mr. and Mrs. Rawat are entitled to a little privacy for God's sake? I mean, he wouldn't have bothered putting up a wall around his place if he wanted every Tom, Dick and Krishna to know his personal business. Really, man, have a little respect, will ya'? Sheesh! It's going to be quiet night tonight in the Rawat Home Theatre. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 06:15:17 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: Thanks for the confirmation. I sort of knew about her not being able to see the kids if she left, but you leave no doubt. Thanks again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 07:11:18 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Malibu Mole Subject: Compassionate Marolyn, trapped Message: Maharaji obviously knows that if Marolyn left him, it would be the end of him. With her speaking out, there would be no doubt about Maharaji's true agenda. Unfortunarely she's trapped in his web. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:19:48 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: I have heard about the on-going affair Marolyn had with John Orzano, a guy I knew from COLL in San Antonio when I lived there in the 70s. Now that M Mole has mentioned it, I thought I would confirm that I heard the same thing. I haven't mentioned it earlier because to me it was just hearsay. I also heard that John was not the ONLY paramour in her married life, and that M was none too happy about the whole thing and engaged in some compensation behavior which was truly bizarre. Shall we call it 'Krishna complex?' Or maybe, 'compensating with devotional love from the premies that he wasn't getting from his own wife.' Of course, his affair with Monica Lewis was reportedly going on at the same time, so what could he say? Regarding Marolyn's compassion, I remember once she gave satsang about the crash of a PSA airliner in Southern California. I think Marolyn had been a stewardess for PSA, and may have known people on the plane who were killed, I'm not sure. She exhibited what seemed to be genuine sorrow and empathy for these people and their families. Now, this compassion stood in direct contrast with Maharaji, who I have NEVER heard express empathy or compassion for ANYONE. I have only heard him make fun of other people, or rather the 'people of the world.' I think Marolyn is not immune from the same cult-thinking that the other premies are subject to. You know, the whole programming that M has a divine plan that we can't understand, so we can't judge him. So she may still think that he has a plan to relieve the world's suffering, but one would have to believe her faith in that has been tested and tattered after all these years and no evidence that he has made any headway in his promise. She might just have have faith and accept that he DOES have such a plan and that it is unfolding in ways she can't see. It's total bullshit, but the programming does keep people involved that way. Also, Marolyn has a LOT more to lose by leaving than most premies. She has invested a WHOLE lot more, and is living in a style to which she (and her children) has become accustomed. Those things tend to mitigate against the obvious personal deficiencies Maharaji has that she has obviously seen. Also, who knows what kinds of blackmail M might have to keep her playing the role of 'mom?' But my understanding is that Monica Lewis and Marolyn's affairs, as well as M's drinking problems are pretty much common knowledge among premies. So, this information might have limited affect on many of them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 05:23:10 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: Of course, his affair with Monica Lewis was reportedly going on at the same time, so what could he say? Being a non-Yank, I'm wondering if there has been an invasion of mistresses from the planet Monica Lew....over there! We get very good coverage (and pornographic e-mail pictures as well, mind you!) of Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, and now I learn that the Big M had a dalliance with a Monica Lewis? What's going on over there?? By the way, did any of you older exes see the Big M's marriage video? The night before I received K, I had dinner with a bunch of old premies who told me about the 'wedding video' of M and Marolyn, and they said it was wild, this kind of 'John and Martha' thing, with M and Marolyn running along and into each others arms. If this wasn't a figment of these premies imagination and somebody else has a copy, we could be talking another screensaver or Quicktime movie here! Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:36:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: TD Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: I have that movie on an old silent 8mm. I don't know if can still be seen or not. I have not checked it in decades. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:56:16 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: What are your memories of seeing it? TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:05:28 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: TD Subject: Wedding Video Message: I was looking through some old Divine Times the other day, and they had an ad for that video. I think it's called 'Family of Love'. I am sure that I probably saw it, but I have NO recollection of it whatever. Bobby has it on video (also a couple of other oldies). Also, I have a wedding picture and article about M's wedding from Time Magazine of May 1974 which has been scanned, and which I'll send to anyone who would like to see it (I think Brian is eventually going to put it on the site). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:30:36 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: I admit Message: This isn;t the easiest thing to do but I, too, have been having an affair with a Monica. Only mine's named Monica Lewiston. I guess it's time for everyone to come clean. How many of you other guys have been having affairs like this? Jim Read the Midwich Cuckoos in 1966. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:56:46 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: I admit Message: I knew it! Mulder and Scully obviously didn't stop the spread of the Monica Lew... scourge across the Canadian border. Just now I've put a call into Australian customs informing them to be on the look out for any 'scarlett women' with the words Monica Lew... in their passport trying to sneak into our country and get hold of our lads! Wait, no, I'm too late! The happily married guy next door has just taken up with a, a, a, Monica Lewisham...! Aaaaah! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:46:38 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Katie Subject: Wedding Video Message: Great Katie, I'll e-mail you about it! TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:16:00 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: TD Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: The happy couple running toward each other. The slo-mo walk on the beach. The french kiss MJ gave Marolyn. Marolyn looking like a gone zombie. Happy onlookers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 18:44:10 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: So, they weren't hallucinating! My God, I'd love to see that. We need to start an ex-premie library service...I'll put my hair in a bun, get some round wire glasses, a tweed cardigan and offer myself up for that job!! TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 15:13:59 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: The name Monica Lew... Message: I remember that one too, Gail. There was lots of slo-mo and I recall that Marolyn was barefoot, but still a lot taller than M. Suzie Bai is seen singing 'Green are the Hills.' Remember THAT song? That's the one we sang endlessly in which we said we had all become M's 'wife.' Bizarre to say the least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:46:58 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Compassionate Marolyn Message: Sir David.... your right i do wonder at what point the bottom fell out and you have got to wonder if she is really trapped and cannot get away... i left in 1983 or there abouts and those were my feelings because i really believed in the peace and the end of suffering trip... i was cleaning out my bedroom at my parents house today and found my walet fm 1972.. i had this sticker on the front of it of M young boy face looking to the side in front of him was yellow light eminating from him and the words on top SAT GURU MAHARAJ JI and under the picture...HAS COME TO SAVE MANKIND.......thats what drew me to M and im sure marolyn was drawn for the same reason....it has to be hell for her...you know all the money and shit dosent make up for the real and true promise of the mission...the rest is just small stuff isnt it.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:08:04 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: david m Subject: Bill Gates the compassionate 1 Message: At the risk of being non-sequitor, when I saw Bill Gates on tv saying that he would give ALL of his money away one day, I literally wanted to break my tv set. While I have similar memories of Gooma's wife as a compassionate person, I prefer to place these memories where they belong- with broken dreams. Talk is cheap.. I don't think that I need to worry about the tragedy of being Marilyn. How seriously should reports of Evita the people's heroine be taken? Yes it tragic for her perhaps, but surely this is nostalgia to return too the past that makes youo say this.. that makes you think this way... Aren't there too many expremies and premies who deserve your attention more? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:46:38 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Can't ration compassion Message: Aren't there too many expremies and premies who deserve your attention more? Attention yes, compassion no. Compassion is not something which we actually give away, is it? Surely it is something we feel and, by feeling it, add to our perspective on life. I do not feel compassion for Maharaji because he continues to be the author of his own misfortune as well as that of many others. However I can feel something for Marolyn because she believed and became trapped, just as we did, but at a much more intense level. How will she salvage anything from the wreckage? She will lose her lifestyle (maybe no big deal), she will lose her kids ( a very big deal), she will lose her credibility, self-esteem and possibly her mind (in the short-term at least). It has occurred to me on many occasions that I keep myself going with the thought that, when my material prospects improve, I can take things a little easier. But what if I had all that money could buy and STILL felt like shit. What motivation would I have then. This is a very simplistic example but I think it still has some validity in Marolyn's case. She has fulfilled most peoples dreams of attainment. Not only of wealth, she married God for heaven's sake and look what happened. How the hell do you get motivated now? If she leaves she loses everything she had come to rely on, if she stays she keeps what she's got but maybe loses her mind. It's not a choice that I would like to make. Sure I can feel compassion. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:27:13 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Richard Subject: Kids? Message: Aren't the kids all grown now? Would it be because the kids would follow M's agya not to see their mother? Otherwise, a judge would decide on who gets custody, etc. It could be a messy divorce case if she wanted one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:54:12 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: Kids? Message: I agree Carol. Custody shouldn't be an issue. They are grown. But the repurcussions of them not WANTING to see her becuase they are into M's trip could be devastating. Also, I feel compassion for her and sadness. But I also feel almost repulsed by her because of the way she thinks and the example she sets for other premies. All that avoidance and denial. I know repulsed is a strong word and may not be exactly what I am trying to get at, but it's something like that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:39:00 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Selena Subject: Shed no tears for ex Durga ji Message: I, for one, shed no tears for Marilyn, aka 'Durga ji', aka 'Mom'. And I can't see how she would have lost a court battle for custody. The whole guru cult trip could have been exposed by her, and there's no way a judge would have given the ex-krishna impersonator custody of the kids over her. I'm sure there's plenty more to this story that we'll never know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:44:11 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: Shed no tears for ex Durga ji Message: I, for one, shed no tears for Marilyn, aka 'Durga ji', aka 'Mom'. And I can't see how she would have lost a court battle for custody. The whole guru cult trip could have been exposed by her, and there's no way a judge would have given the ex-krishna impersonator custody of the kids over her. Absolutely, John. She would never have lost the kids in a million years. She goes to court and says that she was seduced and mesmerized by her cult leader, turned into his concubine, saw through it years later and wants out. Give me a break! Every women in custody battle should only be so lucky! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:33:39 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Richard Subject: Escape route for Marolyn Message: Yes, I feel compassion for her, but I have NO RESPECT for her. If it is true that she is holding this marriage together so she can see her kids, how selfish! I mean, I can empathize with how she could feel this, (being a parent myself) but I would have to put the welfare of my kids first. What about their mental stability? Their futures? Their MINDS? If I were Marolyn would I really want them around this stuff anymore once I knew it was wrong? NO WAY!! I'd fight to keep my kids away from it. I'd get myself the best lawyer money could buy and issue a restraining order and get police protection if I had to. Then immediately I'd get those kids to a deprogrammer. I'd fight for custody, child support, and alimony. I would enlist the help of the media at every opportunity. I would get ex-premies to testify on my behalf. Of course this is probably more complicated for Marolyn if she has had an affair. (Though he has, too) She probably has no job and no skills so she may not appear to be the best provider which would be against her in court. If M claims little income, (probably does, so that he doesn't have to pay taxes) then she may not be entitled to much in the way of alimony or child support. He can't hide the cars and real estate, though, unless EV owns them. Still, I would fight to try for the sake of my kids. I hope that my kids know that honesty and integrity are two things worth fighting for. Even if there is a high price. And I hope that my kids know that their welfare always comes first. Either Marolyn wants to be where she is, she is a very weak individual or she doesn't know the options available to her. Then again, we probably don't have the whole story either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:51:43 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: VP Subject: The kids are approx. aged Message: Premlata = 24 Hansia = 22 Daya = 20 Amar = 18 Custody is no longer an issue, but the kids are now programmed. I don't know about the boys. Daya and Wadie Sue are definitely helping the family business. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 01:10:49 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: The kids are approx. aged Message: Thanks Gail. They are almost as old as I am! (snicker) I still say, 'Get them to a deprogrammer!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:15:20 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: greedom@gtn.net To: Everyone Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Maharaji - May 9, 1998 - Miami Beach, Florida (evening) Here it is in all its glory, repeats and all, verbatim. It is interesting that my friend got the message not to set goals period!!!!! I thought all of you might be needing a little satsang, so I printed more than necessary. I’m sure that you’ll agree as you read on—IT’S SIMPLE. One thing is for sure. I was a simpleton to expose myself to such nonsense. He doesn’t say one thing. Check out his wisdom on 'NEW AGE' stuff. 'Things are good, not bad. I’m not here to make, you know, like gee, you know, we’re in dire trouble here. I mean, I know there’s a few people who I’m sure have something to say about that. But to me, the bow of the ship and the stern of the ship are pretty much going in the direction they’re supposed to. It’s not like one is going one way and the other one is going the other way. Things are good. How did they get here? It took all of our effort. No accident. No accident. It took our effort. There are people sitting here. I remember when I first came to England, first came to America. It was wild and they had to make a lot of effort. They didn’t know what to do, what to say. And they did it! They made the effort. Events started happening. People would come. I mean, I remember doing an event in Santa Barbara once. It was at the university and all these kids were there and were making noise and they just didn’t want to let me speak. Finally I said 'Look, you know, listen to what I have to say. If you don’t like it, fine. If you like it, fine.' Everybody fell quiet. I spoke and there were like—it’s not too bad. So if I have to say something, I guess what I’m saying is that if we continue to make this effort and more of it that something can be realized. Propagation that is needed can be realized that even surpasses anybody’s imagination who is sitting in this hall today. Make the effort! You don’t know what you’re making the effort towards. Don’t be goal oriented. Why? Because goals are limiting. Don’t say to yourself, Ya it would be great someday if there were 50 000 people sitting here. That’s too limiting. It’s hard, you know. It’s hard for us to say, gee, wouldn’t it be good to have that goal. No, it wouldn’t. Goal is like a big hole. You just fall into it. And then for the rest of your life, that’s it. That’s it. That’s it. Being in India this time—beyond my imagination. And you accept it. And you learn from it that there are no limits. That the opportunity we have in front of us, and when I say we, I am not only addressing the people in this hall. I’m talking about the whole world. That the opportunity we have in front of us is truly marvelous. Maybe something like this has never happened on this scale before. It’s remarkable. It’s really, really remarkable. Maybe in your little community, it doesn’t seem like it. Frustrating sometimes perhaps, you know, Jeez, you know, I don’t know where this is all going. I keep making the effort, and the people don’t come to the events and you know, dah dah dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. It’s easy to complain. Keep with it. I did. I did. And something beautiful starts to happen. Watch the magic unfold. Why should you do it? This is a good question. You should do it because you’re alive. You should do it because you’re being touched by the most exquisite magic in this world. You should do it, most importantly because you want to. I’m not going to sit here and say, well, you you must. No! You have a choice. Like I was saying before, you know, knowledge has a choice. Knowledge gives you choice. Maybe a choice you never had. Knowledge gives you the choice to be fulfilled. Maybe that choice you never had. Maybe everything was complicated and that was everything. And all of a sudden a master comes out and says, 'No, it can be simple, too.' And that gives you a choice that you never had. Maybe you thought that God was billions of miles away from you, purposely. And a master comes to you and says, 'No, that which you are looking for is within your own heart ,' and maybe that gives you a choice you never had. Maybe you read the books, and the books took what was so close to your heart and shoved it further and further and further away from you. And the master comes along and says, 'It’s within you.' And that’s a choice you never had. I mean, there’s so many books out there. Especially the new age stuff. And it makes the simple more ambiguous. All of a sudden they have a picture of a mountain [JUST LIKE WHAT’S LEFT OF THE PREMIE WEBSITE], and it has something to do with inner peace. Will somebody please explain to me how? What if somebody lives on an island which is flat as a pancake? They show a lotus [SO DOES MJ] and they have a beautiful quote. Something about this lotus. What if you live in the dessert? Somebody explain it to me. They have nothing to do with it. Lotus is beautiful. So is a rose. And believe it, or not, so are the thorns of a rose. They are part of it. They are part of it. It comes as a package deal. It comes as a package deal. It is easy to make it more ambiguous. It is hard to make it simple. Because it is simple. That is the hard part. People can’t accept that. Is it that simple? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:28:21 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: What a moron. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:45:46 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Well to be frank, that goal thing put in the context that Maharaji was talking about was pretty harmless stuff and not suggesting that people shouldn't have ambitions, period. In fact, I consider all this that Maharaji has said here as pretty innocuous. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 21:19:28 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Thanks, Gail. I disagree that what M says here is innocuous. I find it very disturbing, right in line with continuing a cult. Things are good, not bad. But to me, the bow of the ship and the stern of the ship are pretty much going in the direction they’re supposed to. It’s not like one is going one way and the other one is going the other way. Things are good. Translation: Things are just the way they are supposed to be. It's all perfect. Just perfect. This radically conservative idea is the same as he was spouting 25 years ago. There is no way to judge what is happening, because if you you do, it's because you just don't understand the perfection. This is a perfect example of the circular thinking of a cult, and he is still spouting it unabated. So if I have to say something, I guess what I’m saying is that if we continue to make this effort and more of it that something can be realized. Yes, there is always MORE effort to be made, by the devotees, that is. There is never ENOUGH effort made. Therefore, it's all perfect, but yet if the premies don't make effort (ie give MONEY) nothing is going to happen. More circular, programmed cult-thinking. Also, right in line with the contradictory stuff he always said. It's all perfect, and he's the all-powerful master, but it really is all YOUR fault if you aren't happy and/or if his mission is a flop, which it has been, by the way, because the propogation break-through is always in the future (somewhere) as he says: Propagation that is needed can be realized that even surpasses anybody’s imagination who is sitting in this hall today. Make the effort! You don’t know what you’re making the effort towards. That last line is SO telling. You don't know what you're making the effort towards. It gives me the creeps to hear that. You can't EVER judge what your own experience is, nor anything about M, because you are too ignorant to know anything about what is supposed to be happening in his perfection. CULT, CULT, CULT!!!! Don’t be goal oriented. Why? Because goals are limiting. Well of course not, and this is entirely consistent with his other blather. If there were goals, then there would be something to judge him by, to see if he is who he says he is, right? With no goals, there aren't any means to look at him or his cult objectively. Perfect. This keeps people trapped for years and years. [I'm sure, however, that there are FUNDRAISING GOALS!!!!!, see, that's a different thing.] They are part of it. They are part of it. It comes as a package deal. It comes as a package deal. It is easy to make it more ambiguous. It is hard to make it simple. Because it is simple. That is the hard part. People can’t accept that. Is it that simple? Whoever said M was repetetive? Sure, this stuff is inane and stupid, but it's also very insidious and is the kind of stuff that keeps good people trapped in a bad and destructive cult. He is a bad person. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:07:30 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: JW Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Perhaps because so much of this is vague, people can read into it whatever they like. The bit where he says that things are not bad. Well there's no smoke without fire or to use another metaphor, methinks the lady does protest too much. Do you really think Maharaji is bad? Well obviously you do. From my perspective he seems to have created and kept this cult going almost by accident. Remember the film 'Being there' starring Peter Sellars? A simple man was given great power by accident. Maharaji doesn't come across as the great manipulator and I think that now, most people follow him out of habit. Perhaps also there is wishful thinking on the part of many people who look to him as a saviour. In the seventies, Maharaji had most of us in a stranglehold. I remember thinking at the time that this can't go on like this unless it's real. Now Maharaji just has habitual devotees. They will lap up the vague promises of better things to come and that will be enough for them. That in itself is a habit of many years and could go on for many more years. But to me, Maharaji seems to have realised that he can't play the heavy Lord trip again. So he's becoming user friendly because that's more productive. Perhaps he will mellow out altogether, in time. Maybe I'm wrong but is this middle aged guy saying the same things really a threat? Yes, he was very dangerous twenty years ago but since he lost most of his devotees and God status, all he needs to do now is maintain the status quo. Perhaps in the end, he will be totally harmless. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:42:49 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir David Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: David, Pol Pot wasn't much of a problem in the end either, I know. However, we're not really there yet. Maharaji's still in business, isn't he? He's not dangerous because of any Richard III type soliloquies, all sharp passionate greed and twisted malice. He's dangerous because of the effect he has on people. Chauncey, the Peter Sellars character in Being There was retarded. He was, as we used to say, 'guileless'. Maharaji as retard? Ah, if only that were the case. We'd have all ben outta there a lot sooner than we were. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:53:55 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: If BM were to play Chauncey Gardener in a remake his best line would have to be : I like da watch. With Monica Lewis squirming on the floor beside his bed... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:55:03 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: The message is still there--he's the one, the only, the great master. Why do you folks think he stopped the heavy stuff of the '70s? What caused him to ease off on the concepts of Lord, karma, etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:09:57 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: I interpreted the no goal setting comments to apply directly to propogation of the group. In other words, don't try to put a lid on how many people we can get because that will limit us. I think for your friend to say that M was saying not to set any goals in your life is taking this out of context. But I agree with JW. The entire thing is DISTURBING. In this case, the four potato chips in the bag, are poisonous! On the bright side, you win 'Satsang of the Day'. Thanks for sharing, Gail. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:04:08 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: VP Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: If I were still a premie in the audience, I would be trying to squeeze the most personal meaning out of his words that I could. I would probably take the comment about goals being limiting to my own life. I agree Gail! It's typical 'you can never do enough...you can never know enough' satsang. I used to think back in about '78 that I'd better not wish for anything (or make effort for anything) that was not just for m or I would definitely not get it! And the effort I made for him was never enough! Definitely pulls the rug out from under any motivation you can muster! The ideas I expressed in the New Age thread are what helped me get away from cult thinking and become self-directed again! Which is why I speak about them here. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 12:51:22 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Sir David Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: David: To be fair, I also don't think M was saying that people shouldn't have 'goals' in their lives. I think he's saying you shouldn't have propogation goals, or any ideas about how his 'perfection' is unfolding. And this is very 'bad' for people who are vulnerable to it. And I think many premies just take what he says as gospel. I don't think he cares whether premies have other 'goals' or not. He just wants to keep them hooked and to dissuade them from thinking about why he has been such a failure in living up to his promises, or to think about why they aren't having such a 'beautiful experience.' That's all. This is part and parcel of what a cult does -- discourage objective analysis or criticism of the cult, and especially of the cult leader. He has used various means over the years. [Evil mind, commandment not to doubt, suggesting that humans are too stupid to understand him, the need to have faith, to surrender, to not have concepts, etc.] Regarding whether M is 'bad,' I guess it depends on how you define the term. I think what he does is 'bad' for many people. He encourages people to follow him, at their own expense, and delivers nothing more than cult membership and a belief system as a reward. So when he basically tells people not to think, many will do it. Now, obviously, he has lost most of his followers over the years, so he hasn't been too successful, but many people, including me, are or were gullible and fell for it for awhile, with disastrous consequences in some cases. He is surely old enough to understand that he has screwed over many people, and that he is about nothing more than MONEY. This makes him 'bad' in my opinion. True, his hold on people likely isn't as intense as it once was, but then it is likely more subtle and perhaps more insidious for that reason. He SOUNDS more reasonable and relatable these days, to the extent he makes any sense at all, but the basic message is the same. Plus, he doesn't care all that much about devotion, etc., it's just a means to get more money. Sure, I agree that a bunch of premies only continue out of habit. But keep in mind he is ensnaring a small number of new people, with generally deceptive methods, and I think that's bad too. I agree, his goal now is just conservative, to keep his lifestyle financed. But I think he is willing to do just about anything to do that, including beginning a new devotional phase like he appears to be doing now, with darshan, dancing, devotional love songs, and all the rest. I'm also interested to see what paranoid things he might do in reaction to this website. There are a number of possibilities. My guess is that he will try to be even more secretive, evasive, paranoid about security, perhaps a bit more bitchy in his diatribes about fallen premies and technology, and perhaps develop a bit of a doomsday mentality. Who knows? This is an interesting topic. I doubt he will 'mellow.' People with egos as huge as his, and who go in and out of delusional ideas about who or what they are like he does, rarely just fade away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:04:31 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: You're right. According to some recent news I got from premies, it looks like EV is again into a heavy registration system for the programs where m speaks, where you have to preregister, even for the aspirants or the new persons premies are bringing. Looks like paranoia? I also heard they are circulating Jim's pictures .... BTW: it's an old thing in EV's security. They used to take pictures from the bongos, and circulate them. Even take those pictures in the street, unknown from the persons .... that's secret stuff!!!!!!! Security exes will confirm. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:18:21 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: REALLY???? Message: I also heard they are circulating Jim's pictures .... Jean-Michel, are you serious? Is this for the purpose of keeping Jim out of a program? Jim, I guess you got the guy scared of you!!! How did they get a picture of Jim? Are you suggesting some kind of sub-rosa photographer? I doubt they still have a picture of him from DLM files, plus I think Jim might look a little different 20 years later, like we all do. Does Jim's picture they are circulating have the title 'this is the anti-christ' under it? :) Amazing. Truly a paranoid organization. I have thought that closed registration, or limits on who can go to programs might be one of the results of this website. I think he might also do more programs in more remote places, like Amaroo, where it is less likely that anyone but true devotees would pay the cash to go. But then, the website is popular in Australia too, so where can he hide? India? I would also think that PAM might have more blackmail power over M these days than before. He might think twice about firing someone who, the next day, could begin posting all they know on the internet, where hundreds of premies and ex-premies are reading messages every day. Do you think he will speak less freely with even his closest advisors? Interesting quesion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:55:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: I resent that too! Message: I think Jim might look a little different 20 years later, like we all do. Yeah?!! Fuck you too, Joe. As if. No, seriously, JM, are you serious? I know I asked Lida Gross to spot me a little pre-release publicity for our X-Flies CD (tentatively called 'Bollywood') which EV's generously agreed to sell at any remaining programs they may have. Maybe this is it. No, really, are you just kidding or what? I've got a picture of Joe they can have. Hey I've even got Katie around here somewhere. And eb and Gerry.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:27:53 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Pictures of the exs Message: There IS pre-registration for the events. I can confirm that. I wonder how many of us they have pictures of... Maybe that is why CD wants to know who I am so badly (just kidding, CD. Well, kind of :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:38:51 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Pictures of the exs Message: VP & Jim: I think we should all get together and send them a group photo. Hey, why not scan our pictures in and send them over the wire? May as well save them some trouble, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 03:13:57 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: They DO have pictures Message: I was kidding about you of course, are you getting my humor now? I had a hard time with yours! But who knows? They DO circulate pictures of the bongos and some other people. You should ask Richard, and maybe some other exes also who've been involved in security, they will confirm this. I know of a photographer who had been asked to take pictures, that was a long time ago, but they still work the same way! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:52:06 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: They DO have pictures Message: JM, Just for the record, I knew you were kidding. No one ever fools me. Well.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:30:50 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: JW Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: JW, You are so right! When I first read it I agreed with Gail that it was pretty innocuous. Then when I read your citicism it really hit me that this was cult dialogue. I think Maharajis Satsang and your translation of it should be kept somewhere on this site where new lurkers can find it, because it points to the obvious cult thinking. I think its good to read what M says because when its in print the endless repitition is obvious. Thanks, Bill p.s. I've decided not to become a presleytarian but instead devote my life to the SubGenius at www.subgenius.com so I have something to hand to the Jehovahs witnesses when they come to call Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:36:30 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Bill Cooper Subject: Slack!!! Message: Praise Bob, Bill, you've finally seen the light. Now get a copy of the Book of the Subgenius and study Chapter 19! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:10:11 (EDT)
From: wait a minute.. Email: None To: Bill Cooper Subject: correction Message: It was David, not Gail who thought it innocuous. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 03:54:04 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: GOALS context Message: Yes, JW, I agree with you. This is no innocuous talk. You also have to consider that m is addressing a very specific question/doubt that most of the premies have: there is almost NO propagation, very few aspirants, lack of people to run m's organizations, etc Because when you're a faithful premie, and you listen to m's outrageous plans, you really wonder how all this is going to happen when you face day to day reality of your small community (I'm not speaking only of lack of aspirants, but also lack of money, lack of skilled premies to manage the whole thing, so many stupid things done everyday, etc). So m talks about India, where it seems like lots of people are coming to events (for various reasons), and says he's in control. He says that kind of stuff at almost every premie event. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:16:42 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Thanks for that, JW. Excellent analysis. It's tiring to pick apart BM's words but so rewarding. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:19:46 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Thanks, Gail. It's a sad sad thing that there was a time in my life that making sense of this kind of chatter was a top priority of mine. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:53:17 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: Gail, reading this transcript of his satsang really disturbed me. Disturbing because of how bad and waffling it is, and disturbing because I used to think that he was one of the most articulate, conscious speakers I had ever heard. Part of me is going 'Has he changed since I last saw a video, or have I changed since I last saw a video?' Obviously, I am the one that has changed, but that again is disturbing as it reminds me that I must have been in such a 'brainwashed' pathetic state to be in such awe of his words. I remember coming home from every video, pondering the sheer profoundness of his monologue and how there always miraculously seemed to be something that he had just said that seemed appropriate for me that day. It was almost like I felt he was psychic, because if I was thinking about a topic like say 'my goals', then it would seem that he would address that in the next satsang. Some kind of wishful projection perhaps?? I have indeed come full circle. The very first video I saw of him, I thought he was full of simplistic, strange crap and now, 4 years later, I again see him as full of simplistic, strange crap. TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:42:01 (EDT)
From: MS Email: None To: TD Subject: MJ's SATSANG RE: GOALS Message: TD said: 'The very first video I saw of him, I thought he was full of simplistic, strange crap and now, 4 years later, I again see him as full of simplistic, strange crap.' Ironically, it is the group members of the cult that twist his Words of Crap into enlightening Words of the Lord. Unfortunately during those 'zombified' years as a follower, I imagine a lot of us have built up strong relationships with premies who are close friends and even immediate family. These people, who are still important aspects of my life, still live in that warped mentality. It is only in the last year or so that I have 'seen the light' yet have had nobody to talk to about it. This forum has clarified my thoughts tremendously and I realise that I wasn't actually going through a few months of 'doubt that we've all been through' as suggested by my premie friends and family. What do I do now though? I see my sister, my father and my mother in absolute awe of Maharaji and it seems like they are the bunch of zombie's in Stephen Kings Tommyknockers (a recommended film/book for ex-premies). How have you all managed to deal with this aspect? How can I win back my loved ones? Yours Despairingly, MS Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:32:55 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: book: Three Continents Message: Any takers? I finally got through it. It was not a very pleasant task, but thought I should read it! It's a fiction story about a cult. I really never found the purpose, beliefs or mission of the group to be well defined, so it was difficult for me to relate to. It was boring and depressing, but showed the gullibility of the young people involved very well. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:27:28 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Carol Subject: book: Three Continents Message: I didn't find it boring, but to each his own. Depressing, yes! It was hard to figure out the exact ideals of the cult, but we weren't supposed to. The author did that intentionally. I think this helped me as the reader not make any favorable judgements for the characters running the group (perhaps identifying with them). If I identified with the ideals of that group, it might be hard to see as clearly the harm that was being done to the characters. Does that make sense? The purpose of the book was to illustrate how easily people are taken in by cults and the crazy rationalizations they go through and how they ultimately lose themselves. The fact that I didn't know too much about the cult helped me read it from an outsider's perspective. Since I sort of have this outsider's perspective on DLM and EV, it was especially close to home for me. Maybe this was why I liked it so much. I wanted to just SCREAM at those kids. I wanted someone to save them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 19:04:11 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Carol Subject: book: Three Continents Message: Hi Carol, I finished reading Three Continents last week and found it to be riveting because I totally identified with Harriet. Maharaji himself could never have suckered me into his cult without my developing a mad obsession for my husband who already had Knowledge. Did I mention that I was really young, naive, idealistic, easily influenced, chameleon-like, abused and vulnerable? Or that my husband was the first man with whom I experienced orgasm which I related, somehow, to Maharaji. Not coincidentally, I began to distance myself from the cult about the same time that I got a divorce. To me, the purpose, beliefs or mission of the group in the book weren't really important. Similarly, with Maharaji, I was hooked by my husband and the premies in the community--their commitment was enough for me. I'm sending my copy of TC to Robyn next. Much love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:26:16 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Miles Armstrong form Portland Message: and he lived in Ashland Oregon after that. Still thinks M is one of the good guys because he believes most premies are good people. I am an old friend of his. I visited him yesterday. He is living in a Masonic Lodge nursing home in Forest Grove Oregon. A premie couple and I are about the only people who visit him there. He would love to hear from other old friends. He has no family. I'm going back on Friday for a barbeque there, so if anyone who knew him wants me to send a message I'll be sure to get it to him. He can't write back because of arthritis, but I could help him. His mind is sharp and he is still Miles! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 02:31:08 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: How about you Maharaji?? Message: I want to point out to you that an old man in a nursing home who has always loved you would be delighted if you were to show him you care in some way. He didn't ask for it, but I think it would be nice!! I took him a video of the Long Beach Event from last year. He already has some other videos. (He doesn't have a computer so knows nothing of this site.) Your former devotee, Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 10:08:44 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Carol Subject: Miles Armstrong form Portland Message: How did the barbeque go Carol? I find the whole situation of an old man in a nursing home with few friends and no family very sad. I think it is great that you are going to see him and trust that your presence will make a big difference in his life. There are lots of folks that I met as a premie that I will always love. I know that DLM attracted some very wonderful people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 15:46:48 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Bobby Subject: Miles Armstrong form Portland Message: Bobby, The barbeque was alright, but my visit with Miles after was great! We talked for about 2 hours. When he asked me about my involvement with M, I told him the truth: that I no longer considered myself a premie. We talked about some of the reasons and I told him about the Forum and how helpful it has been for me to communicate with the people here who understand my experiences. When I said that premies were discouraged not to use the internet and that they were not supposed to give satsang or talk about their own experiences related to knowledge, he was flabberghasted and agreed with me that it was a big mistake! He himself had not been to programs in many years. He had a complaint about M holding programs at expensive resort-like places and at short notice, so it seemed only the rich could go to them. Anyway, I was worried for nothing that he would be offended about my being an ex. He feels the way I do about many things. He also knows that M is not the only teacher with the only knowledge! Last year I gave him a native american style drum I made him, because he values their culture and spiritual beliefs. He is a student of the mysteries of ancient Egypt among other subjects. I told him about the post I put here in his name and he felt just fine about that. So if any of you know him, please get in touch through me. If you don't know him, he'd probably still enjoy hearing from you or even meeting you. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 10:23:27 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Everyone Subject: TD's post about the forum Message: TD posted the following message below (there were also several good responses to it), and I liked it so much I brought it up to the top where everyone could see it. I received an e-mail this morning from a very sensible and articulate ex-premie concerning my request about whether anyone felt censored or stifled on the forum, and this person expressed a lot of the same things that TD said. Something to think about. (I am hoping to get permission from this ex-premie to post parts of their e-mail on the forum - I think it's important). Thanks, TD (as Richard said - it was well worth 2 cents!) TD said: I'm not going to make a judgement on anything written on the forum, as I tend to skip over stuff that I don't like or that irritates me, and my posts probably have the exact same effect on some people, but ah well, c’est la vie! I will say however, that when I was a lurking wavering premie and using this forum to help me extricate myself, I was so hungry for good reasonable discussion of M, K and DLM/EV that it sometimes became frustrating when conversations got completely off the topic or slid into total slagging matches, or into a kind of personality assassination. It was those good informative discussions (whether they be angry/sad/passionate/funny) that helped me defect, whereas the other types just prolonged the agony of deciding 'on which side I belonged'!! Now that I'm an ex-premie, I can participate in a variety of the conversations held on the forum, and I'm grateful to be able to do that and I like all the differing reactions from people. And yet always at the back of my mind is the fact that there are probably premie lurkers out there who are in the same state I was in, and I know that it just prolongs the agony of the 'defection' process when the conversation deviates too far from just 'chewing the fat' on all things associated with premiedom. Anyway that was another of my two cents worth. Regards, TD [TD also added the following in a subsequent post, and I think it is also well worth repeating. Hope you don't mind this, TD. At least I am giving you credit...} I guess the common reason we're here is because of our involvement with M, and when we step outside of that, all our other differences come to the fore, and hence we become susceptible to all other kinds of criticism. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:44:43 (EDT)
From: RT Email: still a secret woird To: TD Subject: TD's post about the forum! Message: Write on TD! I feel the same way...no, I think the same way...no, I know what you mean...No, I realise the same...no, I understand that...no, I comprehend. Gotcha! RT says: let's be Professional Ex-Premies. The Whirled of Knowledge is watching YOU. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:52:16 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: RT Subject: TD's post about the forum! Message: I vote against professionalism, regulation or proper behavior. My attraction to the Forum was and still is that it is a natural environment. I'm fed up to my ears with professionalism - basically it is pretense. Just like the maharaji videos, designed to capture your interest with manipulative and pretty sound bites. Forget it. Be yourself, say what you mean however you please to say it. Don't try to attract premies to become ex-premies. Just be yourself for its own reward. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:45:27 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Katie Subject: My very strong opinion Message: Katie: I have very little time these days to take part in any discussion on the forum, but I can't believe how much energy on this forum goes into 'Jim' vs. 'Bobby'. And I just don't get it! I realize it is of great interest and importance to 'Jim' and 'Bobby', but I can't believe any of us who have been around for any length of time find it interesting. And I can't imagine what a new person thinks of it. I think they should both be outlawed till they can learn to take their argument with each other into private email. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:51:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: My very strong opinion Message: I think they should both be outlawed till they can learn to take their argument with each other into private email. A couple of people, you, Gail, a few others have siad something similar, like Bobby and I, or Keith and I, are just bad little Tweedle Dee/ TWEEDLE Dum messing up the playground. Look, do you think I asked for this? Bullshit. Read the archives, bud, I spend my time here talking about Maharaji until someone posts something that either attacks me personally (Keith) or defends or excuses Maharaji to some extent with some sort of new age gobbldeygook (Bobby). I started a thread about new age thinking because I thought it was germane to this site. Bobby couldn't just argue ABOUT new age thinking but had to, once again, atack me personally. I responded. What would you do? Just ignore him? Yeah, well I could. But is that what you would do? What would you do if you logged on one day and saw yourself being accused of being a cult leader? Tell me, John, how would you handle it? Always willing to learn something new. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:14:00 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Jim Subject: My very strong opinion Message: What would you do? Just ignore him? YES! I know you didn't ask ME but ignoring those types of things is what I am working on. TD is right, as soon as we step out of the M arena we see our differences and incompatabilities. If the personal attacks realy bother you, basic behavior modification works quite well. If you ignore it they will stop because they don't get a reaction. At least it worked real well on my 2 year olds way back when. Who knows, maybe it's harder for us to learn. Or maybe you actually LIKE the debates being in public? Thanks Katie, what TD said is exactly what I feel. Now if I can just learn to really do what I am preaching about here. I am better than I was don't you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:41:08 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Selena Subject: My very strong opinion Message: Selena/Selene/Celine (half-moon tomorrow) - I think you are doing great, but I never thought you had much of a problem in the first place. I do have a hard time dealing with the personal attacks, but I am learning to ignore them. It isn't easy, and every once in a while the attacks DO require a response (like when the fake PT made an cyperpass at you!) BTW, I really do encourage people to take it off line and e-mail the person they are having a problem with. This has helped me more than anything. Something about the public discussion just seems to add fuel to the fire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:00:27 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: All Subject: Advice for forum use Message: Several premies have come down on me here with their superior attitudes, and others have just gotten shitty little digs in on me from time to time. So if the exes don't get you, the premies will-g! I think to try to modify anyone's behavior is wishful thinking. This is a place for discussion, so come if you want to discuss. I also think that if you are questioning or doubting M you can get support here. Some of it is warm and fuzzy and some of it is honest and in-your-face. If you are going to discuss, realize that everyone is not going to agree with you all of the time. And Katie once said that it was important to realize that we cannot change the other posters here. I think that was a good point. Don't judge Maharaji by whether or not you like someone on the forum. Don't judge Maharaji by whether or not there are arguments or disagreements here. Judge him by HIS words and deeds (misdeeds!) There is hurt, anger, sadness, emptiness, betrayal, disgust, embarrassment and all kinds of other emotions flying around here. People have lost their God. No one said this was going to be easy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:03:54 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Advice for forum use Message: Here, here!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 16:58:04 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Advice for forum use Message: Dear VP, Hi honey! I think that was a brilliant post. I have my own feelings about the forum and they are not as important as the opinions of those who really need this site for support and help with issues steming from BM. I have learned to skip posts I think will get me going and although I am sure I miss lots of good stuff that way it has helped me for the moment, could change tomorrow. I know it saddened me to see all the Jim/Bobby posts in threads below and I just skipped them. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:29:51 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Robyn :) Message: Robyn, I have this sick image of the BM addressing the faithful with one of those phone fireside chats. I can hear him now telling 'students' not to listen to anything on the forum because we are so negative and always fighting amongst ourselves. Then I hear him saying, 'See where mind will get you? Hate and disagreement.' I see all of the glazed eyed faithful drooling, 'yes...oh...master'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:01:13 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: Robyn :) and all :) Message: I was also thinking about this last night. How they can nod to themselves as they read all this and go, 'see? This is what happens when you listen to your mind instead of your heart' Then I thought, so what? At least we can express all our emotions and not just the gooey wooey ones. At least we are coming out from the fog of repressed feelings and thoughts. Good for us! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:36:21 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Selena Subject: Selena :) and all :) Message: Oh, yes! I agree with you whole heartedly. Good for us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:41:57 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, I never said you were Message: messing up the playground. Stay on the merry-go-round until your head spins and you projectile _____ if you like. I am trying to extricate myself from a very horrible mind-set that Maharaji has created in me. Your input regarding irrational, unsubstantiated beliefs such as God and other new age paraphernalia are good. The nasty bickering and Yiddish insults can be entertaining but might really hurt someone. Some new readers may not get the gist. I don't care as long as you don't call me a schmuck! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:00:38 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Gail Subject: The other side,too Message: Gail, you recently expressed wonder and interest in the ability of Michael the preist, for one, to continue to believe in God after the disappointment(to say the least) in our previous Master. I hope also that you will read some of my recent posts so you can better understand where I am coming from when I find the lumping of myself into the New Age/hooey-hooey category a misdiagnosis. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:02:04 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Gail Subject: Or was it G's Mom? Message: I'm sorry if I got that wrong, but hope you read my comments too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:43:03 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: My strong ambivalent opinion Message: C'mon Jim, if someone accused me of being a cult leader I'd roll on the floor laughing, which I bet is what YOU did. I don't believe that anything bobby(or Vacol, Keith, Judex or whoever) says actually offends you. I hate to do a flip flop on this but I dont REALLY mean that you or Bobby should be prohibited from doing whatever you want on this forum. And yes, indeed, I think you do ask for it Jim. You don't argue in a 'reasonable' manner. You call someone a liar and you literally make the font 3x as large and in bold for the word 'liar'. That IS asking for it. And I can't believe YOU can't understand why people get offended by that kind of behavior. It's designed to offend people. I guess the real mystery to me is why people who are so offended by you (bobby, keith, judex, whoever!) read your posts. And, yeah, this is where the ambivalence comes in, I think some of the statements made by people do make my skin crawl because of their new age flavor, and in a way I AM glad you are here to confront them. I mean, better you than me. I'm just lazy or don't have the time or simply don't believe it will do any good. I gotta get the hell out of here because Clinton's coming and they are closing the road that I normally go home on. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:31:10 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: John Subject: My very strong opinion Message: I have to agree with you, John. I find those threads very boring. I don't want to archive them, nor to dig through them in the archives. I wish one of them would just not respond to the other. I would respect either one (or both) of them for doing that. And ditto for Keith. BUT, and this is a big 'but', Brian and I don't want to moderate or censor the forum. This involves more time and energy than we have. Thus, this means people can go off topic, have fights, and say pretty much whatever then want. I appreciate comments such as yours - I feel like the forum should be self-moderatedd, and the only way this can happen is by the participants letting people know when they think they are out of line. Which you have done here - so thanks. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:42:46 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Easy to say, you guys Message: Katie, Next time someone attacks you here -- if it ever happens -- I'll expect to see nothing but your poignant silence in reply. You, too, John, Gail, Selena or anyone else who thinks that's the appropriate response. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:52:13 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm not saying I am perfec Message: Of course I am going to lose it and respond to crap from time to time, and respond in a combative or angry way most likely. I'm talking about a process I am working on, to be able to let things go when I do react, and ideally to become less reactive. And the bottom line is, John and Katie are right, the darned things get boring. and the threads get really long and the hard part about reading and not reading them is there will be something cool imbedded in them and so it's hard to ignore the whole thing. When I used news (Usenet) a lot I had the ability to mark a whole thread as read and this was good for me. Except as I said, sometimes some really cool stuff will pop up. Especially the ones that have humor. For me, I can handle something that's kind of harse as long as it is funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:01:58 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Definitely imperfect as well Message: I agree with Selena - of course there is a real good chance that I will react to an attack and not leave it in 'poignant silence' (great phrase, BTW). Probably if someone attacked me out of the blue, I would do this (and I know that this happens to you a lot, Jim). I am pretty reactive and have a bad temper and have had to work pretty hard on not losing it on the forum at times. Sometimes I have to turn the computer off and walk away. Having to type answers in (rather than screaming them) helps me cool down, but not always. And as I said to Selena, some attacks NEED to be responded to. I guess I object to the long Jim-Bobby threads because you guys don't seem to be communicating with each other at all. Isn't it a waste of time for both of you? Isn't there a point where you just feel like saying 'I can't get through to you, so I am not going to answer any more posts from you. No matter what you say.'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:09:03 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: I really resent that! Message: I guess I object to the long Jim-Bobby threads because you guys don't seem to be communicating with each other at all. There you go again! I think I'm communciating perfectly clearly with Bobby. If you think I'm not, show me where, how and why. Can I help it if he retreats into Bobby speak. I say he doesn't respect rational discourse. He says not the 'Jim Heller kind' whatever the hell that means. I say he doesn't respect logic. He seays not the 'Jim Heller' kind. Do YOU know what the fuck he's talking about? If so, please explain. I'm being clear as day with him. The fault all falls at his feet and you know it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:14:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: I really resent that! Message: What! Communication takes two or more people. You could be speaking perfect English to someone who doesn't understand it, and you would NOT be communicating. I didn't say you weren't expressing yourself clearly, I said that you and Bobby weren't communicating. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:19:28 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: I really resent that! Message: Wrong! I don't buy that for a moment. If I ask to borrow your car and you say 'no' you've communicated perfectly to me. If I then take your car and later defend myself by saying I thought you didn't really mean it, it's all my fault. It would be foolhardy to say that you just weren't communicating effectively with me. Come on! Bobby's whole 'defense' depends on obscurity. HE's the one who isn't communicating effectively. Why? Because he can't. He can't maintain his position honestly. Don;t drag me into this with a 'you guys' argument. That's completely unfair. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:10:15 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Jim Subject: I really resent that! Message: You both express ideas, but there's no interlap or mindmeld or mutual understanding, or at least mutual respect. No respect to me equals no communication! Your ideas are so big and so sure that there doesn't seem to be any room to include a different perspective. You say you are ready or willing to learn new things, but it's not apparent in your reactions. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:51:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Carol Subject: I really resent that! Message: You both express ideas, but there's no interlap or mindmeld or mutual understanding, or at least mutual respect. No respect to me equals no communication! More new age word play! Understanding doesn't have to result in agreement. And 'respect'? Look it up. Oxford defines it as 'deferential esteem for a person or quality'. Is that just another automatic that everyone gets like 'individuality'? English, my dear. I didn't write it. I just work here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:12:11 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: I really resent that! Message: Jim, I wonder what you do, do you have Jehovah's Witnesses in Canada going door to door, if a Jehovah's Witness started up with you, both of you would be speaking correct English, lets assume so anyway. I don't think either of you would convince the other to change thier beliefs and then how would the conversation end. I get this mental picture of you having to go to the bathroom and the JW (sorry JW), talking to you through the window. If you can NEVER say to yourself. I can't make this person see my way of thinking so I will just stop trying. Is that a totally foriegn idea to you? I don't see how it could be, you must have run into people you've given up on winning to your side, must have. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:53:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I really resent that! Message: Robyn, I've met a lot of people it's futile to argue with. What's your point? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 21:36:44 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: I really resent that! Message: Jim, My point is, can you not argue if they are to futile to argue with, do you think that when you argue with Bobby it is like that or different? I think you see my thought process, that both of you could have probably looked at it that way. I really think you must have understood my point before, didn't you? Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:04:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selena Subject: Get real Message: I'm talking about a process I am working on, to be able to let things go when I do react, and ideally to become less reactive. You'll achieve that blessed state when you're dead. Before then you can still consider yourself 'working on it'. Maybe if you took a course or something, read a book, joined a group, maybe if you did something you could actually overcome all of your natural tendencies. And the bottom line is, John and Katie are right, the darned things get boring. I agree but don't blame me. You're just asking me to read a post and keep my thoughts to myself. Well, if someone attacks me I'm not going to do that. Neither are you or anybody here and you know it. First Keith, then Bobby, chose to make an issue out of me. I didn't start it. I think it's very easy to drift in and say 'well, both you guys are really boring me'. That's really easy, Selena, John, Katie or anyone. REALLY easy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:32:51 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Jim Subject: now WE are doing it! Message: You'll achieve that blessed state when you're dead. Before then you can still consider yourself 'working on it'. Maybe if you took a course or something, read a book, joined a group, maybe if you did something you could actuall overcome all of your natural tendencies. Who said I wanted to achieve some 'blessed state'? Been there. No thanks. And, I can work on whatever part of me I don't like. It's my choice. I am not stupid enough to think I can or even WANT to overcome 'all' my natural tendencies. Why would I want to do that? What are you talking about ? And, you can rant at me if you like but I am not going to continue this because it's the same thing as Jim and Bobby - to me it is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:17:33 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: now WE are doing it! Message: Selena, I'm going to go away awhile too,after a few more posts. I pretty openly expressed myself for the last couple of days. I have been trying to explain some of my beliefs and I am in danger of carrying it on to long with Jim, too. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:42:34 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Whoever Subject: TIME OUT : A FUNNY STORY Message: This is a true story which happened in a sleepy one horse town in rural Devon, England. I was trying to park my car in a public carpark which is adjacent to the local police station. It was full but people were leaving so I just pulled to one side and waited for a space. A police officer in the station had just been told that his area chief was soon to arrive and glanced out of his window to see me parking illegally. Worried about his impending visit, the policeman came running over to my car, banged on the roof twice and gestured for me to move with his thumb. Being a free citizen living in a democracy I, of course, wound down my window and asked why? He said 'You are obstructing the car park access.' I said 'No I'm not, I'm just waiting for a space'. He said 'You're breaking the law'. I said 'No I'm not'. He said 'Get out of the car'. I did so, locked it and pocketed the ignition key. He said 'Give me the key'. I said 'No, I just want to park my car'. So, in front of a gathering crowd of totally bemused locals, he shoved my arm up behind my back, arrested me and marched me into the police station. It was at this point that I realised that, whilst I was right and knew it, I was going to have to pay a pretty severe price to prove my point. Even if I made this cop look the total jerk he was in court, I was going to have to spend the night in a cell and make arrangements for my family and pay court costs etc. So I took a deep breath and started the process of talking him down from his adrenalin high. It left a really nasty taste in my mouth but I said what he wanted to hear, even shook the jerks hand for Christ's sake, but walked out a free man, parked my car and went about my business. I hated backing off, especially when he was such a jerk, but he was never going to, even if it ended up costing him his job. He didn't have the brains see! So, if you get caught in a stupid argument with a no brain jerk who dosn't know when to stop, it sometimes pays to walk away. It dosn't mean he is right, just stupid. I still see this fuck-head from time to time but he never looks me in the eye. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:43:05 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Richard Subject: TIME OUT : A FUNNY STORY Message: Thanks Richard. I have to do that at work a lot. It's just not worth the energy or time to try to prove a point. Once I learned that (not so long ago I'm afraid) I became a much happier person. Good story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:04:40 (EDT)
From: Peter Email: None To: Richard Subject: don't get caught... Message: ...in a pissing match with a skunk. That's what my father always used to say. Loved your story, and it fits that saying very well. But I've now learned to expand the scope of the saying. See, a skunk is a person with the firepower to hurt you and who you know will use it (like your policeman). But what if the person doesn't have the firepower to hurt you? It's still a pissing match and it's still a waste of time. Even if you're right. This realization has helped me a lot, including on the forum. So my revised version of the saying is, 'don't get in a pissing match, even if it's just a chihuahua.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 21:19:32 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: TD's post about the forum Message: TD's sentiments sound nice on the surface but after thinking about it, I think no special consideration should be taken when you've got something you want to say just because it might frustrate some lurker. IMHO, this forum is for those who participate in it, nobody else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 23:19:54 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jerry Subject: IMHO Message: IMHO, this forum is for those who participate in it, nobody else. I think some people here would agree with you, and some that wouldn't, and isn't that the beauty of this forum! To me, this forum is a bit like a court case where the main action is going on down on the floor with the main participants carrying on with the case at hand, and yet up in the balconies are all the silent lurkers watching the proceedings, and believe me there are many, many of these - a lot more, in fact, than those who actually participate. The reasons I contribute are the following: 1. to help myself get through the deprogramming process of having been a premie; 2. to help and inform other ex-premies here with my own viewpoint and experiences; 3. to help lurking wavering confused premies/aspirants who may be reading this, because I was once of those and that’s how I ended up here. You won’t find me posting anything that doesn't have some connection with M, K, DLM/EV (and yet it would be easy for me to post a thread about what I did on my holidays for example - which may bore you to tears or enthrall you!) because I still carry the feelings I had as a silent lurker, that of being frustrated at sometimes having to go through a lot of totally off-topic threads or seemingly endless personal attacks to get to information that would help me on the next step. I’m not condemning or judging those threads, I’m just saying that it was frustrating when I was in such a desperate confused state. Because I am still in a relatively raw state, having only been an ex-premie since April, if I can prevent anybody else going through the pain and bullshit that I (and I know pretty well everyone else did here) went through, then somehow it makes this whole thing less meaningless. That’s why I will never forget that there are probably aspirants who, having gone to a couple of video events and are thinking how beautiful it all seems and how lovely and blissful premie life is, may stumble upon this site, read our words, digest what has happened and then save themselves from the kind of deceit and trauma that we’ve all been through. And besides, if one of the communal objectives of this website is to retard or limit the spread of M's cult, then I think we cannot entirely forget the impact that the discussions in this forum may have on such silent participants! Kind Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 00:26:58 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: TD Subject: IMHO Message: god I love this! And besides, if one of the communal objectives of this website is to retard or limit the spread of M's cult, then I think we cannot entirely forget the impact that the discussions in this forum may have on such silent participants! TD, the whole post: Right right right on!!!! I can't get much more approving agreeable or enthusiastic or my wife will slap me ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 04:49:19 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Thanks Gerry... Message: ...and as for the slapping, as long as it's done between two consenting adults...!! Cheers, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:32:32 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: TD Subject: IMHO Message: Dear TD, Hi, I understand what you are saying about it being frustrating to have to go through all the extra stuff to get to the important information for you as a lurker. I didn't lurker, not the lurker type. Can't keep my mouth shut or my fingers off the key board but I just wonder, it is the off topic posts that really give us a rapore with each other. I email a lot of people from here as a result. It has been good and helpful to me in my life in general. My eyes have been opened about BM as I didn't have a bad experience myself so I like off topic as well as the serious BM stuff and sometimes we have some pretty intense off topic stuff too. We care for each other and rally around someone here if they are in a bad time in their lives. Don't the lurkers also feel like they are getting to know us through our posts, including our off topic posts? Maybe they don't care about that but all of us here are human beings and it is natural to extend this forum experience beyond on subject. Sorry to have gone on about that for so long. I've been away a lot and it is good to spend some time. I'm glad you came out from lurking TD and that you seem to be doing really well. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 07:26:46 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Robyn Subject: IMHO Message: Yeah, I think you are right in many ways. I have found more rapport here with ex-premies than I ever did with premies and that is a great relief! I always felt like such a leper when communicating with other premies when we talked about things other than M, which wasn't very often mind you, as you didn't want them to feel that you were anything less than 100% conscious premie all off the time! Ha-ha! Like you, I now communicate with ex-premies off this forum via e-mail, and we chit-chat about all things under the sun which is lovely and it's nice to find out we have other things in common besides M & K. If I hadn't been a lurker (and a silent fan of all you ex-premies who have been around from the beginning!) then I probably wouldn't have the feelings I expressed in the above threads, but as I am, so I have! And so be it! And blessed be! I hope this next bit doesn't sound like I'm public speaking(!!), but I would like to take this opportunity to thank you very much for the very wise and compassionate attitude you have always showed in your posts. I appreciated it very much while I was in a messed-up-feeling-very-strange-and-unloved-state as a lurking premie! Much love and regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 11:00:36 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: TD Subject: IMHO Message: Dear TD, Thank you so much for your kind words. I hadn't thought about your knowing me from when you were a lurker. I just know I haven't been here much since you started posting. Glad your happy to know us beyond our thoughts on M. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 21:18:32 (EDT)
From: carol Email: None To: Robyn Subject: IMHO Message: Sometimes the chatter or off-topic stuff, especially when humorous is a welcome break from intensity. It shows our humanity. It reminds me of my favorite dentist whose wife was his assistant and they would chatter to eachother as I was in the chair getting work done. It was relaxing and got my mind off what they were doing in my mouth! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 22:38:57 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: carol Subject: IMHO Message: Dear Carol, I am really just writing because I think you really like to get responses and I do very much agree with you. On the other hand I wonder if that is why those of us who don't like the fighting should put up with it. Different Strokes..., didn't someone post here about that Gary Coleman or was that a dream....sorry. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 09:29:05 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: TD's post about the forum Message: Jerry - you are right that the forum is for those who participate in it. This is really important to me. I would never think about going easy on M for the sake of some possible lurkers, for example. I don't particularly care for some of the premie-bashing which goes on, since I believe that all premies are not the same. However, if you feel it, you oughtta say be able to say it. TD was speaking from her perspective as a former lurker, and that's why I liked her post so much. I found it very interesting to get another perspective on the forum. It doesn't mean we have to change anything. RE: off-topic. I have very much appreciated some of the serious off-topic discussions, because we all seemed to be concerned about life after Maharaji, and they help. In fact, I'm not entirely sure that these discussions should be considered off-topic. I also think that a few silly off-topic discussions here and there provide comic relief, which some of us really need. I am way too serious as it is (as you might be able to tell!), and I appreciate it when the forum makes me laugh. But, as TD said, some of the 'slagging' (like that word) and long arguments and so forth just gets boring and hard to wade through. I participate in it too, and TD's post just reminded me that maybe everyone isn't all that interested in my argument with someone else, especially if it doesn't concern an M-related topic. I do think some of this 'slagging' could best be relegated to e-mail, and might even get resolved through e-mail. But that's just my opinion. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 10:05:04 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Katie Subject: TD's post about the forum Message: I think it was an excellent idea to start a thread on TD's post. It gave us all something important to think about, exes and lurkers alike. Thanks Katie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:17:24 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Jim, OK I'll admit my hidden motives. I was being patronising because it felt so good to patronise the patroniser. Re: Islam. I suppose Hinduism is the well of equality and Hindu women are treated as equals. I guess its the Hindu men who do the washing up . I guess Hindu women aren't turned out of the house for the slightest reason. I guess Hindu baby girls aren't killed. I guess hindu wives aren't expected to throw themselves into the fire when their husdands are cremated. I guess not a single Hindu has ever killed a Muslim in the name of religion. I love your reasoning, Jim, very professional. I'm not blind to all that has been done in the name of religion. People have done terrible things. Hitler massacred 6,000,000 in the name of Christianity and a pure race. Buddhist terrorist groups have massacred Cambodian women and children in refugee camps. Now the Jews are bulldozing the Palestians off their land in the name of Erez Israel, the Holy Land. However, I believe that even without religion man would still massacre man. people would choose some other reason to kill. How do you know that Mohammed killed women and children? In fact he let a lot of those who wanted to kill him go free, and their is a verse in the Qur'an that admonishes him for doing so. What would you do Jim, if you were in a situation where your enemies were closing in on you and you had to survive? By the way, many hadith quoted about women are erroneous, and were corrected by the Prophet's strong minded, highly educated wife, Aisha, who scoffed at a lot of false hadith that men around the Prophet quoted. Margaret Thatcher said that Nelson Mandela was nothing but a terrorist. Is he or isn't he? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:04:46 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Becky, The thing I wonder about is this: given all the harm done by religion why would you now embrace one? Regardless of the religion, they are all merely belief systems. Haven't you had enough of this type of prepackaged thinking in the cult? Moreover, I wonder why we feel the need for religion at all. If it's not too personal, Becky, could you give your rationale for doing so? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:31:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: How do you know that Mohammed killed women and children? In fact he let a lot of those who wanted to kill him go free, and their is a verse in the Qur'an that admonishes him for doing so. I'll avoid responding to the fact taht you admitted you were just trying to bait me. I'll even ignore the unfortunate fact that you couldn't look past the obvious ad hominem defence ('but officer, how can you arrest me? You've driven drunk yourself a few times in your life haven't you?')I'll just deal with the quote above. You're right in questioning what I know. I don't know a lot. That's why I invited you to get to the bottom of this with me. Remember my question: if you fiound ouf that Mohammed really did slaughter hundreds of innocent women and children would you still respect him? Let's find out Becky. I'll try to find a more neutral, less impassioned source than a bunch of old Hindu's, 'kay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:10:02 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: Jim Subject: Love your rational mind Message: OK, let's say I wasn't trying to bait you. Sometimes there is more than one motive, sometimes there is a fleeting moment of stupidity. I very often experience two opposing emotions/reasons at once. I can love and hate someone at the same time. That aside, I've just read that Hindu stuff, and many of the arguments are incredibly childish and preposterous - some make sense, but most don't. The Qur'an does say that unfortunately most people will take the words and forget the spirit of Islam, it also admonishes people not to be TOO EXTREME in their religion (I think it says that in Surah 2). Well, you can see how deaf humans are can't you. Certainly if we worked as a discussive team, I would be more than willing to get to the bottom of it all. As to why man needs/wants a religion. It's a question that I ask myself. I'm not looking for easy answers about where i came from or why I'm here, or where I go when I die. What I seek is a comprehensive WAY OF LIFE, that is consistently (as much as possible) pure, moral, wise, compassionate, disciplined, and in which I am constantly aware of how small I am in the scheme of things. I also desire to pray. sometimes I think 'What am i praying to?'. yet prayer (as opposed to meditation) makes you feel so good. Why? I don't know. This web-site is meant to be about maharaji, so maybe there should be one set up for general metaphysical/spiritual arguments/discussions. However, if you don't mind having the discussion here, that's fine by me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:16:38 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Becky, Won't you please answer my question. Would you still respect Mohammed if it turned out he slaughtered hundreds of innocent women and children? Actually, I'd like to change the quesiton, if you don't mind. Would you stil respect him if it turned out he slaughtered hundreds of innocent people? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:54:17 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Becky it seems most of the dominant religions out there are awful to women. Christianity included. And in my Catholic family the good wives kept having babies til they dropped dead or quit sex, which they wern't supposed to do either! Or stayed away from men all together. My mom had 10 siblings. And they grew up in the worst poverty. All because birth control was a no no. Even some of the indiginous cultures seem to have had some pretty nasty practices when it comes to how women were treated. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:20:31 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: Selena Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Sorry Jim, forgot to answer your question. The answer of course is no I would not support anyone killing innocent people. Selena, contraception is not forbidden in Islam. both religious and non-religious communities treat women badly. I have been treated badly by my father and various other men, and they have been far from religious. I certainly am against institutionalised religions. I am against people abusing power, religious or political, and people have certainly used religion or some 'altruistic cause' to torture and massacre people. Constantine took over Christianity, and God knows how different his version was from Jesus's. Re: women It is reported that when a man asked the Prophet who he was to respect most the Prophet replied 'Your mother', and the man asked 'Who then?', and the Prophet said 'Your mother' and the man asked 'Who then?' and the Prophet said 'Your mother'. It is also reported that the Prophet said 'If I intend to pray for a lengthy period, but I hear a child crying in the congregation, I cut short my prayer for fear the mother is distressed'. There are countless hadith like this. I used to think that religion was to blame for so much, but it can be a great source of wisdom. Human beings do have some responsibility for choosing to oppress other human beings, and because historically more men have been educated than women, men have been able to twist things that have been said to suit their own needs. Even in islamic countries women are fighting for more rights. If i was in an islamic country I would be one of those women. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:18:46 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Constantine took over Christianity, and God knows how different his version was from Jesus's. God only knows what JESUS' version of Christianity was. I recently saw a series on PBS called 'From Jesus To The Christ'. Fascinating. It may have been biased but according to the scholars who were interviewed, the divinity of Jesus was a myth created by the early founders to make their message more acceptable. The 4 gospels were closely scrutinized and it seems that where they are identical in content, there is no reference to the divinity of Jesus, just teachings on proper living. It's suggested that Jesus' apostles only thought of Jesus as a teacher, not a messiah at all. You mention Constantine. If not for him, there's a good chance that Christianity would not have survived to the present day. Rome was just about to wipe it out, once and for all. But Constantine had a dream just before going into an important battle. In his dream, he had a vision of the sun with a cross upon it. Underneath it was written the words 'By this, conquer'. Constantine had his warriors paint the cross upon their shields before going into battle. He won the battle and became the undisputed emperor of Rome. Naturally, he became more tolerant towards Christianity and even helped it to flourish. If not for that dream though, it probably would have been the end for Christianity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 11:30:32 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Becky and Jerry Subject: Love your rational mind Message: 'Constantine took over Christianity, and God knows how different his version was from Jesus's.' Constantine tolerated Xianity, ended the persecutions, and called the bishops together in Nicea to hash out their differences and come to agreement. It is true that once the persecutions ended, the nature of the religion changed, and the emphasis upon martyrdom ended, but this was a good thing. I used to think that Constantine was a bad guy, but my studies over the past few years have convinced me that he helped save the Church. The divinity of Christ was evident early on but was not accepted by all schools of Xianity. Although the book of Acts and the church have taught that in the early years there was a united church, recent scholarship shows that this is not true; there were divisions between the Judaizers and the Hellenists from the very beginning. As for the gospels, only three (the synoptics) have identical passages; John was produced much later and is not parallel to the other three. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:20:27 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: The gospel of Q Message: As for the gospels, only three (the synoptics) have identical passages; John was produced much later and is not parallel to the other three. I stand corrected, Michael. In this show there was a lot said about a gospel called 'Q'. Have you heard of it? If so, what's your take on it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:34:53 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Jerry Subject: The gospel of Q Message: 'Q' is the abbreviation for 'Quelle' which means 'source' in German. There is a theory, widely accepted by Biblical scholars, that the authors of both Matthew and Luke used Mark when writing their gospels, and that both authors also used another source which we do not have. Since there is no copy of this source, it is called Q. It makes sense to me, but I wonder if Q was oral tradition. There are many books on the subject; an interesting book is 'The Lost Gospel; The Book of Q and Christian Origins' by Burton Mack, but scholarship on this subject and ideas regarding Q are constantly changing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:51:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: How about this book? Message: Anyone familiar with a book by Randel Helms, Who Wrote the Gospels?? According to the blurb, it wasn't Matthew, Mark, Luke or John: 'The names we associate with the Gospel writers are all 2nd century guesses. If this comes as a surprise welcome to the cutting-edge of modern biblical scholarship. Neraly a century after the four Gospels were finished, Christians in the late second century, eager to give names to the anonymous manuscripts the possessed, selected trational figures that they supposed should have written them -- the Apostles Matthew and John, Luke the 'beloved physician' of Paul (Col. 4:14) and John Mark of Jerusalem, the 'son' of Peter (Acts 12:12; I Peter 5:13). According to Helms the gospels were written to confirm or convert their readers to Christianity (surely no shameful project); they are the highly colored arguments of powerful authors, not just transparent windows upon the historical Jesus. If we adjust our focus from the brilliant imaginative pictures to the imaginations that roduced them, to the situations out of which they arose, we get to the point of this book -- a study of the minds of the authors we call Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. With first-rate scholarship, compelling story-telling, and religious sensitivity, Arizona State University professor and biblical scholar Dr. Randel Helms answers these questions: 1) What is the evidence that the author we know as Luke was a woman? 2) How do the Gospels tell us more about their authros' motives than they do about Jesus? 3) Which famous gospel stories were drawn from pagan drama and myth? 4) How did three different authors of widely conflicting opinions write the Gospel of John? 5) How was first-century Christianity even more theoligcally diverse than it is today? ' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:11:40 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: How about this book? Message: Jim wrote: 'According to the blurb, it wasn't Matthew, Mark, Luke or John:' Well, Duh! Why do you think I wrote 'the authors?' We don't know who wrote the gospels; heck, there are some letters attributed to Paul that most scholars believe were written by people in Paul's name. There was a whole school of psuedepigrapha in which books were written in the name or style of prophets. This is all old stuff; Justin Martyr, a second century apologist, pointed out the similarities between some stories in the gospels and Pagan myths, he even pointed out the similarities in some Xian beliefs and the Pagan and mystery religions. Jim, since gumby quit posting, there haven't been any Biblical Literalists on the site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:16:53 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: How about this book? Message: Jim, since gumby quit posting, there haven't been any Biblical Literalists on the site. Okay, I get the hint. You want me to be a biblical literalist. Okay, I'll do it! You've got to get me materials, though. Okay? Alright! I feel like I belong to something already! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:26:29 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: How about this book? Message: 'You've got to get me materials, though. Okay?' Gee, go to any 'Christian Bookstore' and buy those crazy Creationist books and stuff like that. I don't have any Biblical Literalist stuff and I can't go into those Christian Bookstores without breaking out in hives! Wait, I know, any time you find your self thinking 'What a moron' when listening to Christian radio, make yourself agree with the moron. Or read the Bible, and any time your critical thinking faculties kick in, ignore them, just like you did as a Premie. You'll be a Literalist in no time!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:38:06 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Sorry Jim, forgot to answer your question. The answer of course is no I would not support anyone killing innocent people. Well, that wasn't really my question, was it? I asked you if you'd still respect Mohammed if he had done something like that? May I infer from your answer above that the answer's 'no'? I spent some time yesterday trying to track down this information on the net. The closest I came was a Christian missionary page that offered its obviously biased view of Islam. I don't expect you to accept anything they'd say at face value but the authors of that page did report that Mohammed raided a Jeiwsh town, killed all the men (this time) -- about 700 to 900 -- and took all the women and children as slaves. Like I say, I didn't keep the site thinking we could surely find a resource less obvioulsy prejudiced to begin with. So what hve YOU done to answer this question? Anything? Do you care or do you really think the allegation is just a nuisance of sorts? Are you prepared to change your view of Mohammed according to new information you might not have previously had? both religious and non-religious communities treat women badly. I have been treated badly by my father and various other men, and they have been far from religious. That's not the point. What matters is that religions, Islam more than any other, institutionalize tyranny over women. I used to think that religion was to blame for so much, but it can be a great source of wisdom. Human beings do have some responsibility for choosing to oppress other human beings, and because historically more men have been educated than women, men have been able to twist things that have been said to suit their own needs. Even in islamic countries women are fighting for more rights. If i was in an islamic country I would be one of those women. You're right that men have twisted things to suit their needs and one of the major 'things' they've twisted is religion. They've created it -- like Mohammed did -- and administrated it to dominate their own tribes, their children and women, and other competing tribes, countries, whatever. You better be right about those Islamic women fighting for more rights because right now, thanks to Mohammed who started that whole ugly nightmare, they sure don't have many. If you were in an Islamic country you MIGHT be courageous enough to push up to the line, whatever it may be in that country, but if you pushed any further, watch out! You know that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 08:20:58 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: Jim Subject: Love your rational mind Message: Jim, yes it's probably not a good idea to go to a Christian web site to find out about islam. I found one by someone called 'Abdullah' who says that islam is not a religion for Africans because Mohammed had slaves (one called Bilal), and that Arabs trade in slaves. He then went on to say 'JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY'. What he conveniently overlooked was the slave trade of the Christian Europeans going back to at least the 16th century. And it is reported that Bilal was a slave who belonged to a non-believer, but who converted and was freed by Abu Bakr. Bilal was the first Muazzin. Re: Women - as I keep saying, there are mountains of hadiths spoke n by the Prophet that exhort men to treat women kindly. Women were allowed to own their own property - 1300 years before women were in the west. As a Syrian friend of mine said, the rights that we have now in the West have not come without struggle and suffering. islamic countries are behind the west in the kind of rights that people have - men and women - it may take many more years of struggle. by the way, what about Tibetan feudalism as an example of Buddhism? You don't hear much about that do you? Also, from what sources do you cite regarding the raids on Jewish towns? As you can imagine, the islamic side of the story is completely different. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 03, 1998 at 15:23:54 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Love your incomplete answer Message: Re: Women - as I keep saying, there are mountains of hadiths spoke n by the Prophet that exhort men to treat women kindly. Could you give me some examples? Are you saying that Mohammed did not foster womens' submission to men? Women were allowed to own their own property - 1300 years before women were in the west. Tell me more about this. Is this Mohammed's idea? You know, I look around and see one of the ugliest, most repressive regimes ever mounted on this planet, and part of what's ugliest about it is the treatment of women. If you're going to spin this out you're going to have to do a bit more dancing this this, don't you think? As a Syrian friend of mine said, the rights that we have now in the West have not come without struggle and suffering. islamic countries are behind the west in the kind of rights that people have - men and women - it may take many more years of struggle. Yes, but that's struggle AGAINST ISLAM, of course. If you don't agree, tell me the name of an Islamic cleric -- just one -- who advocates the full emancipation of women. Give me a link or something. Come on, Becky, it's a big Muslim world out there. Surely you can find me some Muslim source on the net that supports your viewpoint. by the way, what about Tibetan feudalism as an example of Buddhism? You don't hear much about that do you? What's your point? We're not talking about Buddhism are we? I didn't think we were. Also, from what sources do you cite regarding the raids on Jewish towns? Well, I've seen that in a few places now. One, the Lucifer Principle, mentioned some general, secular sources. The other, the Christian page, I don't know where they got it from. I plan to source this out further, believe me. But again, how about you? If we stopped this debate right now would you just let it go or would you do your best to get to the bottom of the matter? Do you REALLY want to know? What's your mindset on this? As you can imagine, the islamic side of the story is completely different. Yeah? Share it with us. Bascially the claim is that Mohammed marrauded a jewish town. They hadn't done anything to him. He was just getting his bloody crusade going. He slaughtered about 900 men and took the women and children -- or sold them off -- in slavery. Now here's why I chided you for answering incompletely. WHAT is this 'islamic side of the story'? Where does IT come from? Do the Muslims deny that there was an incident? Do they claim that Mohammed was just defending himself? (Ha ha ha!). Well, tell us about it. Don't just say they've got their version. You sound like a premie when you do that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 06:48:36 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Prem Pal Show Message: This thread is my cyber-version of all those classic talk shows (you know, Oprah, Phil, Sally Jesse, Ricki and the last one awaiting Oz syndication - Jerry Springer!) So, you ex-premies are the participants and the topic of today’s show is: The lengths I went to in order to get close to the Big M at an event. Now, I know that if you ex-premies were as devoted as you have implied in your journeys and previous threads, there would have been a range of things you did to get a good seat at an event. Such actions could have been as innocuous as irritating all the members in your household by staying on the phone to EV for 6 hours straight hitting the redial button 6,452 times. Or maybe you sat perched on the edge of your chair in the 12th row eyeing off that vacant seat only 4 rows from the front, just before an event was about to start - ready to make a quick last minute dash. Or maybe you took special service for an event, just so you could narrow your proximity. Or maybe, just maybe, you offered something more, perhaps certain promises or sexual favours for a closer look at the Perfect Master. (nb. I may jest but I was disturbed to hear that this last example was de rigueur for some poorer premies in South America. Seems pretty sad now, eh?). Now especially for this show, we’ve flown in some special judges from India on the Gulfstream, judges who are experts in the field of deviant and extreme premie behaviour. We have Padarthanand, who believes he is the perfect mahatma and devoid of deviancy, Fakiranand who has just published a book for home handymen titled ‘101 things to do with a Hammer’, and last but not least Jagdeo, who is being wheeled in wearing the same restraining gear that Hannibal Lector is given when being moved from penitentiary to penitentiary. So, come on out of the soundproof booths exes, and fess up what you did to get close??? Regards, TD (The Prem Pal Show ex-premie talent coordinator) Last pinched a chair at Amaroo ‘97 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 08:29:05 (EDT)
From: Sir David Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btintrnet.com To: TD Subject: The Prem Pal Show Message: The audience will be impressed by my guarding of Haharaji's cheese in my attempt to get a closer look at the Lord. But I must be the only premie who actually left the front of a program to go and stand at the back! It was at Hansjayanti in that place near Orlando and I'd been working my way up to the front using my elbows and was as near to the stage as one could get without stepping over the assembled Mahatmas and initiators and various other super souls. Then Maharaji came on and gave satsang and I felt completely freaked out and wished I hadn't got so near the front. Everyone was turned on by him exept me. After he had finally stopped talking the band came on and I groaned through some devotional songs until eventually Rich Neal sang his song 'Dance Dance Dance' and Maharaji got up and danced and that was the last straw for me. I couldn't take any more and stumbled through the dancing throngs of premies to the back of the crowd and eventually hid myself away in one of those portable toilets and had a cigarette and wished I was somewhere else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 09:49:24 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Sir David Cheddar Subject: The Prem Pal Show Message: You're right Sir David, your cheddar episode deserves its own 'via sattelite' segment just before the ad break. Wow, your story reminds me of JW's when he had had enough and walked out during a M satsang. The other premies probably thought you were just busting to go to the loo, or were so overcome with rapture, that you had to go and lie down. What was the reaction of premies you knew, to you buggering off like that? Actually, one of the interesting byproducts I had from nicking a seat up the front at Amaroo last year, was a scintillating commentary from a French lass I sat next too, who gave me a rundown on all the inner circle dignitaries who came in from the side at the last minute. People like Marolyn, M’s brother, all M’s kids and M’s daughters’ boyfriends who’d also come out from America for a rural Aussie holiday. I know at the time, I wondered what the ‘boyfriends’ were thinking about their babes father’s performance. It’s a bit different than sharing a traditional beer, arm-wrestle or uncomfortable silence with your chick’s dad, isn’t it? Watching him preach and have people sing devotional songs to him is a tad different experience to sitting down and watching the footy with him, eh? Still perplexed, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:07:40 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: TD Subject: divine boyfriends.... Message: you think their boyfriends are non premies? Weird beyond words. But I think any young man, when given the chance to ride on a private jet, might put up with quite a lot of Mala dancing if he got to sit in the cockpit..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:13:52 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Sir David Cheddar Subject: Dance Dance dance Message: I have said before but if there was a moment in which I snapped out of it...the cult that is...it was Mr. Rawat jiggly mala dance in Philadelphia ( in 78?) He really did some of us a favor with that! It also helped that while I was trying not to puke a premei friend next to me who was high in the echalon says ' oh, I just had an orgasm' in reponse to the dance. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:57:52 (EDT)
From: wray Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Dance Dance dance Message: eesh... thats wasn't a male premie friend was it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:18:10 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Sir David Cheddar Subject: The Prem Pal Show the dance Message: ugh! You poor thing. Was that in the shirtless era? iieewwww. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:22:08 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Selena Subject: Daya's Boyfriend Message: is one of MJ's new musicians. His dad is a devotee, too. The boyfriend lives at the guest house at Malibu. He and Daya sing a duet together. He is on stage. Wadie is also starting to sing (she's not as good as Daya). Both women work at Visions on the new hypnotic tapes. Wadie has just received K. Looks like the family business continues. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:39:51 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: Daya's Boyfriend Message: -Oh god, tell me M hasn't smiled at wadi, eye-to-eye, on camera! If he has, then the 'torch' has been passed on to the new SATGOOGOO. (Especially, if wadi got a big s-eating grin on his face in return!) Uh, oh! -For those that may never have seen the original tape, that is supposedly how hans passed the torch to prempal. (And we oogled and awwgled over it, too....yecch) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:12:05 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: FYI Wadi Sue Message: Hi Mike - Wadi is female. She's the oldest child (you may recall her birth in 1975) She was originally named Premlata, which somehow got changed to Wadi Sue (don't ask me why!). The boys are Hansi and Amar. Don't see much of them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:20:27 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: FYI Wadi Sue Message: oops... Guess I missed the name change... Well, darn it, I thought I was on to something there :-) chuckle...chuckle. BOY DO I FEEL EMBARRASSED! - I guess we'll have to watch for future developments in the 'pass the torch' odessey... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 14:36:39 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mike Subject: embarrassed Message: You are right Mike, the ones who should be embarrassed are the ones still participating in the show. The audience and the actors. How can Daya sing like that to her father? At a time when most young adults are doing the normal serparation thing from their parents she is going on and on about how 'only by your grace and by your mercy can I approach you' I'd place bets she inherits the golden crown. I never hear anything about the boys. Except the truck. Wonder what they tell their friends that dad does for a living? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:25:25 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: embarrassed Message: Hmmmm... Better keep our eyes open... we might catch the 'magical torch pass' moment, yet... - Hey, I wish MY daughter would sing to me... what's the deal! (only by my infinite grace and mercy can she approach me) Hey dad's, doesn't this sound great? All I want's a little respect and HE gets worship. I feel gypped (sic)... - I can't believe Daya's fallen for all of that stuff, AND SHE LIVES with M. How can she sing it without laughing? She must have some incredible self-control. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:30:40 (EDT)
From: Cheddar Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Selena Subject: The Prem Pal Show the dance Message: Yes, that was Maharaji's topless dancing period. It was the beginning of the end, right there G's Mom. The divine specticle of the fat Lord showing off his rolls of fat was too divine for a creature of the night such as me. I had to get back to a place of darkness and familiarity and the portable toilet seemed like a good place. What struck me most was that I couldn't understand what everybody was going so wild about. Nobody noticed me slinking off to a place of darkness away from the brilliance of God in fat human form. Perhaps they were all blinded by Maharaji's fat brilliance, wobbling about on the stage. To this day, I've never understood what the premies saw in it. Perhaps some honest ex-premie will tell us why they found the topless Lord so appealing. It beats me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:44:45 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Cheddar Subject: The Prem Pal Show the dance Message: I figured that only the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE would have the guts and humility all in one to come out looking like that. Boy, was I ever naive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:22:56 (EDT)
From: P Email: None To: Cheddar Subject: Warning: satsang within!! Message: Oh dear brother, it's so simple! That was your MIND! You were not surrendered enough! That was your mind screaming at you to get away, screaming at you that the LIVING LORD OF THE UNIVERSE IN HUMAN FORM was too fat! It's the oldest trick in the books! The devil used that on all those former devotees of Buddha when he went through HIS fat period. (I believe if my memory serves me right, that was AFTER Buddha's time in the forest eating berries and dried hippo dung.) Anyway, dear brother, come back to the holy lotus teets. Find comfort in his rolls and rolls of flab. They are there for YOU. He is fat for YOU, dear David of the Dairy, he eats for you, so you can go beyond your mind and find infinite bliss in his infinite form. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 17:54:06 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: P Subject: Warning: satsang within!! Message: 'I laughed until it hurt!!!!', 'I give it 5 stars' - Mike Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:18:32 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Sir David Cheddar Subject: Sir David Message: That's so funny! I can just picture it. It would make a good movie, David's life in relation to Maharaji! I don't mean to diminish your painful situation! I guess it's dark humor which sprung to mind! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:07:03 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Carol Subject: Sir David Message: Of course, I look on these past events with a kind of sardonic humour now. How I tried most unsuccessfully to fit into Maharaji's world. The ashram for bongos, the cheese darshan and my hiding away from the fat Lord of the Universe were all ridiculous episodes in my attempts to be a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:23:05 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: TD: To tell you the truth, I actually didn't like being too close to Maharaji. If I was, I saw how repulsive he looked and acted. How crude and greasy he was; nothing like the way he was described, nor did he seem worthy of the way people swooned over him when they gave satsang night after night during the 'dark devotional period' in the late 70s and early 80s. So, a healthy distance was better for me. I do recall sitting fairly close at a couple of programs, but I never participated in the extensive games people played to get close seats. At one program a premie friend with the appropriate political connections got a close seat for me. Other than the feeling of being 'special,' which is the feeling I think most premies are really after when they want to get close or have him pay attention to them, being 'close' had no real effect, because, of course, he isn't anything more than a rather bizarre and perverse human being. So being close isn't really an advantage. About the fat dancing: I thought he looked absolutely ridiculous and revolting every time I saw it, especially when he started stripping from the waist up we had to view those big flabby breasts. [God, remember that mala he wore that was made of PEARLS? I thought perhaps he was experimenting with being a drag queen.] But, I repressed that feeling, and all other negative impressions, tried to meditate, and rationalized about Krishna dancing with his gopies (I think this is what M was copying, and perhaps how he saw himself. No, egomania there, right?). I also thought about how my mind was being destroyed by his power emanating from his dancing form, and about how that was why I was experiencing those critical thoughts, and, to some extent, I got off on the 'group high' that happened when he did that 'fat-naked-dancing routine.' Then, for the following 3 months, premies and the initiators would recall in satsang night after night, about how beautiful, wonderful, powerful, etc., it all was, and I could kind of convince myself that it something great. So, I was hyped and primed for the next view of the lord doing the cha cha. But, at one point it was just TOO MUCH, and I couldn't repress the revulsion I felt. After that, I sat way, way, way, in the back. I didn't walk out; I just observed the rather bizarre phenomenon that was happening before me and felt very detached. I do recall one premie I lived in the ashram with, Nancy Silverstein, who would do absolutely ANYTHING to get a close seat. I recall in Rome sitting in an upper-section seat with a couple of other premies and watching through binoculars as Nancy strategized for hours on the main floor trying to get a close seat. We thought it was very funny watching the hell she went through. I guess because the program was in Rome, she didn't have the usual connections she had carefully cultivated in the States to get premier seating and had to resort to more primitive methods. So, TD, are you actually saying that premies traded sex for good seats? Sex with whom? That could be a very important consideration. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:53:58 (EDT)
From: Mark Email: None To: JW Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: Yeah, Old Nancy. she bailed in the mid 80's Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 16:54:26 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mark Subject: Good for Nancy Message: Yeah, Old Nancy. she bailed in the mid 80 Well, good for Nancy! The cult must have gotten REALLY bad for HER to bail. But then again, perhaps she just didn't find it to her personal advantage to be a devotee anymore. Maybe she discovered that there was no longer anything in it for NANCY, which I think was the defining principle of her life -- a principle upon which she based all else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 19:49:58 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: So, TD, are you actually saying that premies traded sex for good seats? Sex with whom? That could be a very important consideration. Some time ago, a friend of my ex-partner did a whole jaunt around the world following M to all his events. Anyway, the word back was that at some of the South American events, premies were ‘prostituting’ themselves to get into an event. I’m not sure whether it was with premies in power, or with non-premies in order to get money to pay for a seat. Now when I think back, I remember how disturbing it was to hear this, and yet the way my partner/friend delivered this bit of information, it was almost like it was ‘honourable’ in that it showed the length of their devotion. Brings us back to the point about what’s your own moral threshold in terms of devotion to M & K?!? In recent videos M has spoken about how some of the instructors didn’t want to give Knowledge to a prostitute, and M’s advice to them was ‘Well, don’t sleep with her! But if she’s sincere, give her Knowledge’. So it is possible, in retrospect, that the South American premies who did the biz were in the trade already, although at the time I heard the information, I perceived it to be just desperate impoverished premies! Funny about Nancy! Yeah you’re right. It was a bit of an anticlimax to get up the front. Last year was the first time I manoeuvred myself into a close seat, and I could only do it at Amaroo where the seating was a bit more relaxed with people changing seats all over the place! At all the previous events, seating was strictly controlled! I just found it fascinating to have the commentary of the French woman - it was like being at an event where the Royal Family comes in and somebody in the crowd goes “Oh there’s Fergie. She was the one caught having her toes sucked.....and there’s Edward who....etc etc”. Is there any available footage or photos of M in his ‘gopi’ naked phase? I think they would make a valuable addition to the website. I just can’t envisage it, and yet from all your descriptions, it sounds like I was saved from a rather unattractive spectacle. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:18:31 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: TD Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: I sent Brian the 1979 HOLI EVENT SPECIAL PUBLICATION. He has some really good shots of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:48:10 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: Of Fat Naked Dancing Pictures Message: Is there any available footage or photos of M in his ‘gopi’ naked phase? Joy sent me a copy of Divine Times (which she actually worked on at SHIP) from 1979 that shows Maharaji dancing half naked wearing PEARLS instead of a mala, at Hans Jayanti that year. [That was in the Kissimee swamp near Orlando, so that may well be the spectacle that made Sir David run to the loo.] But he did it at countless programs, so I'm sure there are lots of other photos around, despite his attempt to destroy all the incriminating and embarrassing evidence over the years. You are right; it was truly revolting. He was particularly fat during that period, even fatter than usual, so that made it even more gross. [The story at the time was that M had a new cook from India who was not, shall we say, into low fat cooking, and he had therefore gained a lot of weight. She also danced on the stage at the program wearing a shari and a man's sweater. She looked a bit like Mata Ji.] As I have mentioned before, the crown barely fit over his fat face, and, as Joan Rivers said about Elizabeth Taylor when she was a bit tubby, he 'had more chins than the Hong Kong phone book.' [According to Joy, a guy at Ship air brushed the zits off his face before they were put into Elan Vital magazine.] Also, the rolls of abdominal fat and those pectorals where just too much to stomach (no pun intended). I would be happy to send you a copy of the pictures from DT. I just hope I don't commit some form of postal crime if I do! JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:52:00 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: JW/Gail Subject: Things to do with the photos.. Message: I've just read your posts, and my mind has switched into 'wicked' mode and I can't help but think of things to do with those photos!! A bit like the ex-premie.org cards, the possibilities are endless. For example: 1. Send them into a dating agency with a whole personality description. Such as “Hi, my name’s Prem. I like aeroplanes, flash cars, seaside houses, older women, social drinking and dancing with my shirt off. I’d like to meet any like minded-individuals who are in awe of me and my hobbies, and they must take a submissive role in any view to a future relationship with me....” then give the PO Box number at Malibu. 2. What about having them emblazoned on coffee mugs or t-shirts, with favourite sayings like: “I went to Kissimee ‘79 and all I got was this lousy ...”, or “You don’t have to be crazy to be a premie, but it helps”! 3. Have a computer whizz scan them into a computer and turn them into a screen-saver, or replicated as mouse-pads so we can trace over his mammaries while posting our threads to the forum!! Actually my ex had mentioned M’s somewhat unattractive period when he ‘had let himself go’ (ie extra lard, zits, grease in the hair). When I heard that I thought how comforting it was that M went through the same ‘human struggles’ we’ve all had to face from time to time. Anyway, my ex said that M must have realised his appearance, because apparently he took up tennis, and got healthier!! Love to see those pickies JW. I’ll e-mail you re. them. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:39:25 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: TD Subject: Playing tennis with God Message: Ha ha! How could you win?? :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:25:11 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: VP Subject: Playing tennis with God Message: Yeah, and I wonder if that's why he stopped darshan around about that time - maybe a bad case of athlete's foot from wearing sweaty tennis shoes all day.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 01:30:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: TD Subject: A comedy classic Message: TD, This was very funny. VERY funny. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:11:03 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: TD Subject: Things to do with the photos.. Message: You are truly funny! I also like the idea of turning the scanned photos into a quicktime movie, kind of like the dancing internet baby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:01:01 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: Things to do with the photos.. Message: This thread is WAY TOO funny. I'm laughing so hard it's bringing tears to my eyes. Selena, if you have pix to scan, I've got a good scanner. This idea cannot be allowed to die (or is it: a good idea is a terrible thing to waste). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:45:05 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mike Subject: Video with the photos.!!! Message: I don't have any photos but.. I have the technology to make the video. I LOVE the idea. I want to !! Jim will I get sued and put in jail? hey this is all a joke you know... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Selena Subject: Video with the photos.!!! Message: I have the video of the dancing fool. Do you want it? Holi, 1979. He's screeching for us to surrender and dancing with the mala and titties. I already have a load of stuff to send to Jim and Brian. I can put you on the list for either video or pictures (1973 to present). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:42:29 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: TD Subject: Things to do with the photos.. Message: I never made it to Kissimee because we turned around when my baby go sick. I didn't see him very often once I had three kids,couldn't afford it! So I didn't see M shirtless during that time, which may explain my comments later down the thread! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:22:45 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: JW Subject: Of Fat Naked Dancing Pictures Message: Please could you post me one? frontline.media@virgin.net thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 08:24:49 (EDT)
From: Becky Email: None To: Becky Subject: what about his dick? Message: sorry, but I'm curious to know. Is he well hung or does he have an extra belly button? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 09:26:46 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Becky Subject: Hey Becky Message: Thats a damned good question! But, I'm not the person to ask. At that Hans Jayanti festival when he paraded before us in all his naked glory, my eyes, or my stomach, would not allow me to look below his ample breasts. In fact, that's when I realized I was not cut out for the heavily devotional path. I mean, how can you be REALLY devoted to someone when you REALLY don't want to see them naked? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:24:08 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: John Subject: Hey Becky Message: I was there, John, but I never saw him stark naked. Perhaps that is why they never released the videos from that time (too much booze and bare skin). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:53:45 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Becky Subject: what about his dick? Message: Well Becky if you go by the overcompensation theory he is teeny! You know the theory, the men that drive the red corvettes, the ones that act real controlling and arrogant, are compensating, etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:15:34 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Becky Subject: what about his dick? Message: Now Becky, when we are talking about the Lord of the Universe, we don't say 'dick,' we say 'sacred squid of love.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:56:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: what about his dick? Message: Dear Mickey, I have to tell you I just copy/pasted that the sacred squid of love, and made it into a word document called, sacred squid.doc in the document it says BM's dick. Thank you. I know that is reliable since you study religion, eh? ;) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 02:08:30 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Robyn Subject: what about his dick? Message: Yes Robyn, I think the term comes from the Upanishads or something. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:39:37 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Becky Subject: what about his dick? Message: Dear Becky, But be sure to find out if it was hot or cold when they saw it. :) Dear Carol, Thought you'd like this, when I went to type sundogs I typed sindogs. Hooey, Hooey!!!! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:30:42 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: JW Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: This honest ex's view: I thought during all those years that M's form was beautiful. I never thought he was fat, just full-bodied and sturdy.I loved his golden skin. I saw his movements as graceful (except the dancing always seemed a bit out of rhythm). I still like the way he walks, but when I saw him in the '97 LB video I thought he shoudn't wear tucked in shirts and tight clothes! carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:33:25 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Carol Subject: Finally some honesty! Message: Go girl! Finally someone admits to worshipping the golden human form of the ultimate power in person! I bet every one of us ex's (older one's that is) at some point in our 'cult lives' gave satsang about how beautiful M is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 14:46:18 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: Finally some honesty! Message: I bet every one of us ex's (older one's that is) at some point in our 'cult lives'gave satsang about how beautiful M is. Well, maybe I did. Not too much though, at least as to his 'beautiful form,' and I often felt quite the dullard for not seeing the beautiful form the way others said they did. To the extent I DID say it, I said it because I believed it was TRUE, not because that's how I saw it myself. I was throroughly programmed to think that my inability to see perfection in everything about him, was just my mind and should be ignored. But, on the other hand, I doubt YOU ever got up in satsang, say in that hall that used to be a newspaper office in Bethesda, and said how revolting and fat M was and how ridiculous he looked prancing around in that outfit. Of course you didn't. You would have been giving the premies your 'mind' and NOT giving satsang. Saying a discouraging word about M was the ultimate no no. Still is, most likely. I DO recall having a brief conversation with two sisters in the Chicago ashram about M's 'titties.' It was like we had to speak in hushed tones and were even freaked out by having the discussion at all. We quickly dropped the subject. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 15:01:36 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: M needs a 'bro' Message: Speaking of his titties, Did you see the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was going to make a bra for men and call it the 'manzeirre'(sp?) or a 'bro'? M could have been the spokesmodel for this product. I have said this before, but I was afraid of the way M looked, being a mere child myself. I thought he looked like a devil. I didn't think he was beautiful at all, I thought he was evil. Seems silly to have abandoned this first impression. I'll bet more premies were either afraid of him or grossed out by him, they would just never admit it. They probably also talked about it in hushed tones. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 06:15:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: M needs a 'bro' Message: Dear VP, Well that was my first laugh of the morning. Thanks! I am soon going back to sleep so I'll check in for another 'first laugh' when I get up again! I hadn't thought of that and I saw that show. Love, Robyn One light week and back to the grind stone for 2 more weeks of hell in '98.-g Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 18:49:30 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: Oh my God Carol!!! That's amazing. I know you mean it. I have seen this in other premies. I always thought there was something horribly wrong with me cause I didn't see his 'form' that way. You poor thing! I still like you though. (poor thing) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:06:57 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Carol Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: I never thought he was fat, just full-bodied and sturdy. I never thought he was fat either, just 'pleasingly obese.' :) God girl, are you serious? I guess you missed those flab fests when he danced topless. Even the most serious devotees HAD to recognize the fat. Of course, to a true devotee, it was 'just more of him to love.' Regarding tucked in shirts and tight clothes, yes, they were unflattering. Now a mumu, that might have been better. But really Carol, sweetheart, dahling, did you REALLY think he was attractive, or was that what you were SUPPOSED to think? I mean I thought he was gross, but I tried to convince myself he wasn't, and alot of other premies tried to convince me of the same. They either raved about his beauty, or kept their mouths shut. And I wouldn't call it 'walking.' It was more like waddling. But I guess that CAN be attractive to some. But he did have nice clothes. Very expensive clothes. Lots of tailoring involved. 44 extra, extra short. And he often wore nice ties. And watches. Nice watches. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 20:28:39 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Carol Subject: Of Dancing and Close Seats Message: I liked him. I never even thought about it. I just figured, as Karen Stone (the senator's daughter) said, 'He's seducing us.' What ever happened to Karen Stone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:38:01 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Quote of the day Message: At the risk of diverting everyone's attention from the fabulously riveting discussion below (COUGH!) I thought I'd share this really really dumb quote I just heard with you: 'Enjoy this life. Because if you can't enjoy this life then really, you're not going to enjoy anything else either.'-Maharaji Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:47:41 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: Nah, BM never said that, did he? It was Yogi Berra, wasn't it? Hey I just thought of something: Maharaji is the Yogi Berra of yogi's, I mean gurus. Wait, he isn't a guru any more... Well anway, VP, thanks for the diversion. I think we should make this a daily feature of the forum. If there's more than one sparkling quote, we could vote on the daily favorite... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:51:59 (EDT)
From: did you see how we Email: mee-sturrrr To: Gerry Subject: posted at the same time! Message: Dear Gerry, I just loved that! Mee-sturrr is my cat Noah's pet name. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:06:39 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Quote of the day Message: Good idea, Gerry, let's try to find a different M quote that makes no sense each day and put it out here for everyone to examine. But do you think that we can find one for each day...are there that many stupid quotes?-snicker! Do you think this quote means that we won't be able to enjoy death? -g Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:09:23 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Absolutely great idea! Message: Yes, indeed, there are tons of quotes. Excellent. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:10:45 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: All Subject: Becoming Aware Message: BTW this quote is from the video 'Becoming Aware' Yes, Gerry, he really said it. We can all be embarrassed now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:12:19 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: VP, We COULD run out in maybe ten years or so if he shuts up starting right now. But there's not much chance of that, is there? Gerry --- wishing he'd kept copies of the AIID's he peddled door-to-door in '73 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:26:01 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Quote of the day Message: I've got them. I'm sending a bunch to Jim. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 22:48:59 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: Dear VP, The within within inside me are all a quiver. Thank you so so so much. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:04:10 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Quote of the day Message: Hi Robyn, I thought you were a party girl! Is this your entry for best quote of the day? (It doesn't count if you make it up!) The within within inside me are all a quiver. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:02:08 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: Quote of the day Message: Dear Gerry, Thought it up myself :) sorry! Love, Robyn Thought your response here to be appropriate to a drinking post from me below though. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 1998 at 23:16:27 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: You are welcome Message: Eat some blueberries for me. You'll have violet lips :) You're welcome, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:28:42 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: VP, are you aware of what the ramifications may be with what you've proposed in this thread? Are you ready for the thousand inane Big M quotes that I’ve been wanting to dump onto this forum for a good ex-premie analysis and dissection? Quotes that only months ago, I thought were the most profound words ever to come from the one and only living Perfect Master, and yet now, the most response I can muster up is a kind of tired, dissinterested ‘ho-hum’! It’s not too late to back out.... Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:11:35 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: TD Subject: Go for it, TD Message: TD, Go for it! Give us a new one a day. It may get some wheels turnin' out in lurker land. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 05:49:00 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: Ah, the clarity of the master. Who needs a mind of their own? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 11:41:41 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: 'WOW....Stupendous....How enlightening...Profound performance' - EV. '...Could never have thought of that ourselves...Absolutely phenominal' - AIID 'He has a tremendous talent for stating the absolutely obvious... don't bother buying a ticket...go to another theatre' - Mike Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:23:28 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: Thursday Quote of the day Message: This isn't nearly as funny, but what is funny is how VERY profound I thought it was a year ago: Just because you have an information highway doesn't mean you know where to go on it I was all goo goo eyed about that one. huh?? where on earth was I at? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:32:31 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: Thursday Quote of the day Message: ...snicker...snicker... Hasn't he ever heard of a 'search engine?' Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't need to search, he's already found THE ANSWER! Now, if I could only figure out what the question is.... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:01:57 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Selena Subject: Thursday Quote of the day Message: That's a good one, Selena. I just thought of something. If we tell where these stupid quotes come from, do you think that they will be recalling those videos to edit them? snicker! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:09:19 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: Thursday Quote of the day Message: I really like the quote of the day idea. Who is going to do it? Not me, I am running out of fresh material since I quit going to those events and sent all my vidoes off to you guys. And ordering more is out of the question, I never even watched the ones I mailed off. Someone gave them to me. In hopes I would get more on track I guess. She said she only did it because she could 'feel my pain' . Great. My pain would have been much better relieved if she had given me the money she spent on that stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 15:19:11 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Selena Subject: Quotes as we find them. Message: I watched four of the videos she sent you and you didn't miss anything. They really helped me to see through the guy, so it was money well spent, though probably NOT the way your friend intended :) How anyone could rewind those things and play them again is beyond me. I guess whoever has a quote can put it up as they see fit...not necessarily everyday. Whenever someone runs across or remembers one. I'm sure TD and Jim have hundreds. JW and bb can probably come up with some. Brian has some really bad stuff, too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 12:56:21 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: I think this is a GREAT idea and a good way to steer the forum. BTW a friend of mine regularly gives me video and audio tapes of his programs. If someone wants to see something (or confirm something) that's fairly recent, let me know. I'll see if I can copy the appropriate section or whatever. All I need to know is the particular program (I've got a BUNCH) or the particular quote that you are looking for. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:00:07 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mike Subject: Quote of the day Message: Hi Mike I *think* bigM said that infohighway thingy in December 96 Long Beach. Of course I have bought a lot of audio tapes and noticed that he says the same thing over and over on a tour of different cities so it could have been said elsewhere once he say how hysterically funny the premies thought it was. I am so embarrassed ! When I think I put that on my sig file for a while. oh the pain!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 13:32:19 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: Quote of the day Message: - Sometimes the simplest ideas are the absolute best. The thought of using a quote from M on a daily basis is just, oh should I say it, PERFECT! Maybe when we comment on them, discussing the mostly rediculous content, we will help to show the premie lurkers that what the (ahem) Master says is a bunch of useless tripe; regurgitated again and again. - As to feeling so embarrased, to quote someone we ALL know: 'Well...' We all listened, we all heard, we all misunderstood, then we all woke up and used our minds to extricate ourselves. Group embarrassment doesn't seem to be such a bad thing to me. Hey, you're NOT alone, by a very long shot. And, what about those that are still falling for this junk? Talk about embarrassment! But that'll be ok, too, once they discover the truth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 17:40:56 (EDT)
From: RT Email: QUOTE ME To: Selena Subject: Quote of the Cycle Message: Hi Selena- RE: Dumb Quotes of M You said it ! He says the same thing over & over. Proof of: He doesn't think. Video Editors don't think. Audience can't..or let it ride. I suggest if possible: Multiple quotes [of same idea] - and date/time/place. 'call it Brainless Watching'. PS: Great Idea, VP! RT ..And I tell you, over and over and over again my friends, I do believe, we're on the eve, of Deconstruction! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 20:26:22 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: One of My Favorites Message: Some time ago, someone let me see a 'book,' reputedly authored by Maharaji himself, which was probably sold in the trinket and money-changing bizarre at programs, for a unconscionable mark-up. It doesn't have very many words. In comparison, a book like 'Where is Elmo?' is entitled to the Booker Prize. It consists of pages of pictures of clouds, and lots a blank spaces, with some little gems printed here and there. The following quote was considered SO profound that it was given it's own page, sharing it only with some clouds in the background. I believe it is my favorite: NEW GROWTH CAN START FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. I was so overcome with the profundity and insight of this deep and intelligent statement that I immediatly pranamed right there on the BART train when I read it. Who cares what other people think when the lord himself deigns to provide us with such pearls, especially because we are nothing but swine and cannot possibly comprehend their true meaning? I also immediately searched for the acknowledgements (there weren't any) to see if perhaps Maharaji was quoting Yogi Berra, or whether he wrote those words all by himself. Of course, he took the credit for himself, as he should. Also, remember when Maharaji said the oil came from dinosaurs, which he called Dinah Shores? At the time, I figured he knew something that the rest of us didn't. I mean, after all, he is (or used to be) 'all knowing.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:57:11 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: like a bag of potato chips... Message: JW, Isn't it sad? If people just sat down and THOUGHT about the words and what the guy is actually saying...they would see that a lot of the time, it is nothing but fluff. Maharaji's satsangs are like a bag of potato chips. When you BUY it, it looks like you really HAVE something there. When you OPEN it up, you see that what you really purchased was mothing more than four chips and a lot of air :) P.S. This is a little wicked, but since you brought up dinosaurs, Maharaji also says 'tirst' for 'thirst'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 22:48:44 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: VP Subject: Quote of the day Message: 'You must love this country more than I love a cold beer on a hot Christmas morning.' Oh, wait, that's not M, that's Homer Simpson. D'OH! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:15:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: A keeper Message: If they're looking for quotes for the next Fat Boy Calendar, I'd suggest one of my favorites: Cow comes from a life. Mother, right? And that also came from a life, and it's a life to a life to a life circle. But a plant does not come from a life. It comes from death; a seed which is dead. It doesn't need any nutrition. It's a dead seed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jul 30, 1998 at 23:42:19 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: A keeper Message: Yes, that's a classic. VP lost 10 lbs on an all protein diet and feels great, sorry to tell the Lord. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 10:58:31 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: A keeper Message: I blew it VP. Someone brought in bagels and I ate most of one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 13:46:52 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Selena Subject: A keeper Message: Hey, a bagel is not too bad. If you said you had eaten a cupcake, I would scold you. (Well, not really :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jul 31, 1998 at 19:23:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: A keeper Message: Jim, What about the sucker vs the licker. I think you posted that one with or around the same time as this one. Robyn See how I do it, Jim, I am not even going to mention that you didn't reply to my post below. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 14:26:11 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: A keeper Message: Robyn, For you, I will get the sucker vs. the licker. By the way, which are you? Which post didn't I reply to? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 01, 1998 at 19:14:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: A keeper Message: Hey Jim, The post you didn't answer is with something like 'I resent that' subject. Oh, it was about you and Bobby and you answered the 1st and then I replied to you. If you would be so kind. I'd appreciate hearing what you think of my response. Thanks for the efforts to get the lick/suck quote. You ask which I am and I have a very good reply in my head but think I shouldn't post it. :) Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |