Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 25 | |
From: Sep 26, 1998 |
To: Oct 13, 1998 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 23:02:45 (EDT)
From: Edna Blighty Email: blighty@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Penny for your thoughts... Message: ..Josie' Jonathan enquired, in the friendly-enough manner of one who is secretly concerned that the object of his friendly-enough attentions might be losing it. Josie, half-slumped and half-drunk on the rear seat of the boat, scowled in a friendly enough manner. The bay was as calm as a millstone around their necks as the Shameless Five struck out for Premie island in Uncle Quentin's clinker-built rower. Jonathan was perched at at the prow, nursing his hangover and his real wooden Beatles guitar, occasionally gazing up at the stars for effect. 'Will you stop doing that, Jon?' snapped Josie. 'Stop what?' 'Stop gazing at the bloody stars when it's only two-thirty in the afternoon' But Jonathan was elsewhere. 'It always ceases to amaze me how Uncle Quentin can sort things out just so when you least expect it. I mean - look at the water! It is just so unbelievably, you know, calm and all that. You would hardly credit it' Jonathan argued persuasively. 'Woof!' Timmy confirmed, discreetly cocking his leg on Mark's trouser leg. 'But you said it would be stormy' muttered Josie, curtly. 'Aha - yes I did.' Jonathan confirmed, 'but what I meant was it would have been stormy - all the signs suggested as much - but it wasn't stormy, was it? D'ya see what I mean? - Uncle Quentin has been working his stuff, just like I said he would' 'No you didn't.' 'Didn't I…? - But I thought it. That's what makes it incredible, I mean. The very fact that I predicted it would be stormy and that I also knew Uncle Quentin would stop it being stormy, because he knows all things and , er, respects us so, er, respectfully…' 'I think you might be right, Jonathan' thought Mark, for want of anything else to think, but didn't actually say as much since he also suspected the smart money might be on Josie. Her uncharacteristic, sulky rebellion was new territory. Time of the month, perhaps? He had heard of such things but wasn't too sure. 'Cut the crap and play us a song, Jonathan. I can't abide the sound of your mind, just now.' Josie suggested in a friendly-enough sort of way that cuts like the chill of February. Something was happening with Josie. Colin had made a few notes, but there was nothing so far could report back. Since their last meeting in the garden shed, Josie had cropped her hair in a non-spiritual, spiky mode and taken to wearing combat fatigues. But there was no longer any dress code. Things had been so much simpler in the old gang days, Colin recollected, and although Josie's attire was a bit like the proverbial last straw in the coffin, he would just have to surrender to Uncle Quentin's rules about non-committal this and non-committal that. It was just the way things were nowadays, but still part of the plan, he supposed. 'Hey! - did you see that?' Jonathan cried suddenly. 'See what?' 'Colin landed his oar just so, and this spray came up, and there was this kind of drip that landed right in front of me, and do you know what? - it looked exactly like the drip that Josie here embroidered on the flag. Don't you see..?' 'For Christ's sake, is there no end to this fucking nightmare?' Josie sighed inwardly, in a moment of sudden insight. 'No!' woofed Timmy. to be continued Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 23:45:47 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Edna Blighty Subject: Penny for your thoughts... Message: Thanks, Edna/Enid/Nigel I'm so glad they're having such a fab time. Uncle Quentin's grace really is everywhere. I'm a bit worried about that Josie, though. You don't think she may have been skipping a bit of practice, do you? Love, Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 19:08:37 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Edna Blighty Subject: Penny for your thoughts... Message: Dear Edna, I certainly hope Nigel has started on that addition to the house. It must be getting crowded! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:52:18 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premie Continence Message: It appears that the master was SO beautiful in Brisbane the other day, thousands and thousands of the hundreds of premies there lined up for hours to change themselves: He was so funny, sweet and tender yet still magnificent in his usual power and clarity while telling us all we need to know about everything that matters. Anyone BUT these cult members who watched Maharaji speak would realize how bad these guys have it. This is really a case of some serious witchcraft. You know, the spell where you think the stinky, little toad is the most beautiful thing in creation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:58:54 (EDT)
From: IECJOAIEJRC Email: None To: Jim Subject: Premie Continence Message: power and clarity Power? - sure. Which supreme being doesn't have a little? But clarity?! Good grief, Batman... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 23:39:46 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim Subject: He tells us everything Message: '...while telling us all we need to know about everything that matters.' Doesn't this say it all? MJ tells his premies what's important/on the agenda, and then he tells them everything they need to know about that. Doesn't leave too much room for individual approaches to individual lives, does it? So much for MJ's gift being only about 'an experience of love' - no beliefs or philosophy attached! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 14:22:11 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Malibu Residence drawings Message: The drawings showing the blueprint details are now online and accessible from the Malibu Residence page. The print is broken into 7 drawings. Such a cosmic number! How very whacht out!! [JM, you'll note they require no translation this time.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 18:15:46 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Brian Subject: Malibu Residence drawings Message: That must have taken you a lot of time. Thanks for that. I'm glad I'm not donating anymore. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 14:18:13 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Pearls Before Swine Message: Sorry, but I just had to pull this gem from op up to the top. Get a load of this: op says: hey bill - you haven't got a clue. Slamming Jan? Jan has grown tremendously over the last few years. And who was it who posted a bunch of very private stuff about her life? Not even necessarily true stuff about her life? Hi Katie - I think the new premie site will be highly edited because very unfortunately people cannot say what they feel without being torn apart by media or on this page. I'm seeing more and more how subjective life is. What I perceive as absolutely true can be completely false in your eyes - and who is to say which one of us is right? Even science can't provide an objective overview - the very matter that makes up the universe shifts depending on who is watching. (I don't want a long and tedious argument from Jim, this is just a comment.) On the other hand, I think the new premie site will give a lot of people a voice that they and others will appreciate, even if they often can express only every other word. Amazing, that our culture is at a point where it's ok to use every vulgarity imaginable, slam the president and savor every detail of his private sexual escapades. Freedom of speech has become utter chaos. So, in my view, it's perfectly ok that I have to measure every word. Whatever is said is going to be dissected until the blood starts flowing, whether it be here or on the premie page. So I have to try to say something bloodless, to convey my meaning without actually having any substance that can be chewed up and spewed back at me. Which is, of course, impossible. So, in my case, I stay away. When you posted the challenge to state some things that M has done for other people, I could have sent in a list that would put Mother Theresa to shame. But I couldn't do it without compromising his privacy (and mine). So I didn't. No one here really wanted to hear about his 'good deeds' anyway. Just another excuse to pull him apart. I'm sorry if I seem to be so down on Billy Burke, btw. He is one person here who really does get me angry - all this gopi nonsense. If he'd really lived it, he wouldn't be here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 14:21:07 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: op Subject: Pearls Before Swine Message: I think the new premie site will be highly edited because very unfortunately people cannot say what they feel without being torn apart by media or on this page. Astounding! So the idea is don't express yourself because other people might express themselves and you might not like what they say? I'm seeing more and more how subjective life is. First rule of cult programming: Whenever you hear 'more and more' someone is lying to themselves. Amazing, that our culture is at a point where it's ok to use every vulgarity imaginable, slam the president and savor every detail of his private sexual escapades. Freedom of speech has become utter chaos. Yes, we really must do something about that pesky 'freedom of speech'. So, in my view, it's perfectly ok that I have to measure every word. Whatever is said is going to be dissected until the blood starts flowing, whether it be here or on the premie page. So I have to try to say something bloodless, to convey my meaning without actually having any substance that can be chewed up and spewed back at me. Whoah! This is one for third-floor psychiatric. Such graphic terms... 'dissected', 'blood starts flowing', 'spewed back at me'. Not to mention 'being torn apart by media or on this page' (from another paragraph). Geez, it makes me almost afraid to talk because poor op might get her feelings hurt. Sorry, baby, you'll just have to suffer. Underneath your plea for decency and compassion is a facscist and manipulative underbelly. I think you're full of shit. I could have sent in a list that would put Mother Theresa to shame BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 15:09:01 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: in defense of op Message: Dear Rick In defense of op - I DID ask her what she thought about the premie site - in other words, she didn't just volunteer the message that you quoted above - and I do respect the fact that she answered my question. I don't agree with much of what she said, but I do appreciate getting an answer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 15:33:53 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Katie Subject: in defense of op Message: Hi Katie, That explains why you didn't flame her. Regards, Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:12:53 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Rick Subject: in defense of op Message: In my few and somewhat occasional email communications with OP, I have ALWAYS found here to be most polite, understanding, compassionate and informative. It has been a pleasure communicating with her. While Maharaji and his philosophy can be critisised or even ridiculed, I don't think it is fitting to neccesarily do the same to all of his devotees. Certainly not in OP's case. Out of all the premies I've occasionally communicated with on this forum, she's one of the few I wouldn't mind talking to in person. Her lack of arrogance and lack of condemnation of ex-premies is welcomed. How very different from that oter premie net babe, Red Heels. Mind you, sometimes a bitch can be exciting, can't they. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:40:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Really, David? Message: David, You're sounding a little gullible here. No one says that op has ever blown her top here or communicated other than smoothly. But really, big fucking deal if what she says isn't honest. And it isn't. Op has shucked and jived around all the key historical issues concerning Maharaji and, like I said before, she's only PRETENDED to be up for honest, frank discussion. If she lies who cares how softly and nicely she does it? And lie she does. Frankly, I would MUCH prefer an honest antagonist to a disingenuous spin doctor like her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 21:19:55 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jim Subject: Really, David? Message: Yeah, well come to think of it, I remember a few of the conversations you had with her and she was bullshitting a bit about Maharaji's past and the ashrams etc. I remember now she said something about the ashrams being for people who couldn't cope with the world and conveniently missing the truth of the matter which was that most ashram premies only moved in because the Lord God Almighty in human form told them they should. Also, since most of us ashram premies had to work in ordinary jobs 'in the world' we were hardly unable to cope with the worldly life and 'normal' people. SHe did evade the issue and soft soap and gloss over the trip. I agree with that now. I guess it's the old Angel Babe syndrome. What I mean by that is, I'm happy to listen to an attractive woman standing on my doorstep telling me about the Rev Sun Myung Moon or about Jehova. I can listen with rapt attention, even though it goes in one ear and out the other. I don't believe a word of it but it's nice to have the communication. Perhaps I'm not taking this seriously enough! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:04:19 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Damning with feignt praise Message: Yes, Katie, op deserves a certain amount of credit for responding here. But, please, let's be fair -- fair to the truth. op is nothing but a protector. If she knew of anything negative about Maharaji (which, of course she does) would she ever admit it here? Of course not. She has no respect for us, the truth or the public record. She also lacks sincerity. Many times she has pretended to be open to frank discussion. Many times she has evaded that exactly the moment it wasn't going her way. I guess I'm thinking that if you respect her for answering here at all you should disrespect her in spades for much else. And I agree with Rick, her views on expression (i.e. FREE expression), while not surprising, are chilling. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 00:15:15 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, it's 'faint' not 'feignt' Message: And it's 'Damning BY faint praise' not 'with' faint praise. And while I've got my teaching cap on can anyone mention to bill how you spell 'their?' He has been spelling it 'thier' for at least a year now. Sorry, bill, but it kind of drives me nuts. Let's see, it's i before e except after c, and except in words sounding like neighbor or weigh.' No, I guess that doesn't work either, but it really is spelled 'their.'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:18:12 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: It's feigned, isn't it? Message: - meaning false Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 11:10:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: No, it's faint Message: Like, 'the only praise I can give you is this extremely mild endorsement, thus you're kind of worthless.' Example: Q: What did you think of the movie? A: Well, I thought the credits were really imaginative. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 23:43:52 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Their Message: It could be spelled 'there' if you are talking location. Their is possessive as in: 'The house in Malibu was paid for with their money.' Maybe bill is imitating Jim's spelling of Kieth's name. VP Can't spell either, bill Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:19:51 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Yes, I knew that Message: In my SELF . I knew that in my big SELF . Anyway , rest assured , Joe , that I won't be looking for any spelling errors on your part in the forseeable future . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 15:41:41 (EDT)
From: Contributors wanted for.. Email: None To: All Subject: Yet another forum! Message: We are looking for quality new or vintage' Keithisms' to post on our new forum! Please post your zany, crazy, witty, wise and just plain fun Keith quotes here: The Keith Channel BTW, This NEW site has no affiliation with that co-opted site which used to call itself 'Magical Mystery Tour' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 13:52:47 (EDT)
From: Nowhere at allforyou Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 1+1 isn't always two Message: So Dears: what are you up to?. Being agressive, triyng to demistify something misundersdtood, talking and analizing what?. So now, what have change in your lives?. Being on the other side of what?. Nothing was done to you, any harm really. You feel having lost time more than you are loosing it now?. Playing the victims of somebody who told you that you are something more than that you think you are, a being divine, whith the capacity to aprecciate such an experience?. So you couldn't. That's not big deal really. This is very far to be an easy task. At least for me. But me, I recognize the Truth where it really is. Doesn't matter if it don't fit in my convinient expectations. It has to surprise in some way. If it wouldn't, I'll be an enlightened one. And may be I am, having recognized the Truth, as mistic as it sounds, and the one who holds it. Is it sad for you?. I can see some kind of histeria motivating your lives, compelled to be pro or anti, playing boy scouts games instead of recognizing at least that you are unable, for the moment, to See. Blindness?. That's not crime. Not knowing it is dangerous. If you want to play your whacht out games for the rest of your lives, is personal decision. Nobody to judge, except yourself. I think you are being more insulting than anything else. Not even society has that prejudging attitude you have. Now that you have an item, are you happy?. What if you wouldn't have none?. That's an interesting part for me, because there one meets with something real. Empty?. Is there something about yourself you can't see or cope with?. That's normal too. Even you are human. Even to be such a motherfucker seems to be human as so many times prooved. Anyway, once more. Just remain in this little box you love that so, thinking carefully and putting words together. If noise is your aim, you are doing the same that have been done many times before, by other people through Time. You are not original. Still you are nasty. Have a good time with nothing at all. That will give you a sense of sureness in your uncertain selves. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 14:15:53 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Nowhere at allforyou Subject: 'whacht out' premie Message: This is what happens when you toe the line that Maharjaji draws for the devoted: give no satsang, speak no mind, and ultimately lose the ability to string ideas together into coherent sentences. How very profound. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 15:35:05 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: 'whacht out' premie Message: Hi Brian .. ultimately lose the ability to string ideas together into coherent sentences. I think 'Nowhere at allforyou' conveyed his/her view point quite well for someone who's first language is probably not English. I would like to see you express your anti-M feelings so eloquently in Tibetan or Swahili ! Your comment is just another typical personal cheap shot at someone you disagree with. Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 17:10:17 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mel Bourne Subject: 'whacht out' premie Message: I didn't see the person writing as being someone who doesn't speak english. Could be though. I had trouble following it in either case. So as for my not agreeing with this person, can't argue with you there. Now, perhaps you would care to respond directly to the person who started the thread? Show me how it's done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 17:17:26 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: 'whacht out' premie Message: Interesting. Maybe English is a foreign language to 'allforyou,' but if that's true, how much do you think he or she actually read and understood of what has been posted here, such that he or she could digest it all and could conclude therefrom that all the ex-premies are 'whacht out,' 'nasty' and, oh, yeah, 'motherfuckers?' (Note that 'allforyou' knew quite well how to spell THAT word!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 18:29:02 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: No-it-all Subject: 1+1 isn't always two Message: Look, nobody cares if you wish to continue grovelling at the Lord's feet. Some of us have a different agenda. I personally have been involved for 24 years of MJ's magic, and it has cost me a lot. Maybe through the paramount efforts of some people on this forum and the comments of the rest of us, others will be spared the trauma of being a cult member. Other cult members may wish to exit the trip--all they need is a little encouragement. If you choose to leave your mind (computer) working on the problem of realizing Knowledge (the endless loop)--so be it. You can never do enough satsang, service, meditation, shelling out cash, travelling, and grovelling at the Lord's feet in person or to his shrine at your house. You can stay stuck forever. Remember MJ's satsang about pulling people out of the muck with his bulldozer. What he really should have said is that he was ploughing us under (his thumb). You are not free. You are as caged by MJ's concepts as that parrot he likes to talk about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:46:09 (EDT)
From: admirer of Gail Email: None To: Gail Subject: 1+1 isn't always two Message: For someone who's just spent 24 years in the madhouse, I have to say you have emerged with some kind of eloquent genius intact. More power to your elbow! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:55:52 (EDT)
From: Prof John Hammond-Smyth Email: padded.cell@asylum.com To: Nowhere at allforyou Subject: 1+1 isn't always two Message: Well done my esteemed fellow. For 1+1 = 11 as our great mentor and mathematical genius, Maharaji so elequently pointed out. How brilliant is this logic. Forget all our previous outdated numerical systems for they have got us nowhere. 2 + 2 = 22, x + 2y = x2y, 3z(a - 4x) X (2z X 57x) = 3za4x2z57x Brilliant and what a revolution in the mathematical world! It makes Einstein's reletivity theory old hat. Follow our great teacher and leave the maths up to him. No matter where it leaves you, question not his calculations. If you end up, wrecked, friendless, destitute and with no family or relationships, it must mean that your maths was wrong. Go through the whole equation again using the Maharaji numerical system and see where you went wrong. Because remember, your maths will always be wrong if you arrive at a different conclusion to Professor Maharaji. You may have been using the old outdated number sytem tought in schools. No, Maharaji MUST be correct and if we've arrived at a different conclusion, it is our calculations which are wrong! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 05:41:49 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Nowhere at allforyou Subject: 1+1 isn't always two Message: You feel having lost time more than you are loosing it now?. Why are YOU losing your time expressing your displeasure, and thinking about people in their mind like me? Not even society has that prejudging attitude you have. Really? Do you think that worrying about people involved in cults is not something that's been already addressed? What is the difference between what you're involved in and a cult? I can see some kind of histeria motivating your lives How do you know that? recognizing at least that you are unable, for the moment, to See To See what? God in human form? Sitting on His Throne? I've seen this: I now know it's only an hallucination. So many people have seen so many things, angels, Gabriel, Mary, UFOs, etc. Don't you think what you've been 'Seeing' is what you (unconsciously ) wanted to see? It's a very well known and documented phenomenon. It's real, for sure. As real as your dreams. And it can very well turn into a nightmare, you have no control on it. a being divine, whith the capacity to aprecciate such an experience?. So what? Would you admit that many more people have that 'experience' without m and the toe kissing business? Would you admit that helping people to have an 'inner experience' is not m's privilege? Would you admit that m's 'teaching' can be something VERY harmful for a lot of people (I don't speak of the premies seemingly enjoying m's teaching). I'm only speaking of the hundreds of thousands who received k and LEFT. Or are you implying that humanity is doomed without Mr Rawat? Are you Mr Rawat? Does it mean that if someone doesn't hallucinate seeing the Lord he is not a real human being? I don't need to hallucinate anymore. Can't you rather consider that that tendancy to love hallucinating is an escape out of the real world, out of YOUR real life, and that you might have a problem here, like so many people have, by the way, and there is no harm in this. That problem can be solved. you are doing the same that have been done many times before, by other people through Time In other words, are we some Judas reincarnations? How do you know that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 11:07:39 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nowhere at allforyou Subject: 1+1 IS always two Message: Nowhere Man: You said, 'I'll be an enlightened one.' When do you suppose that will happen, eh? After many years full of 'promises,' YOUR LORD hasn't seen fit to 'enlighten' ANYONE at all! Try to prove me wrong... Tell me are you enlightened now? Not a bloody chance, considering what you just wrote! GO ahead and spin yourself in circles for the rest of your life and waste whatever time (and money) you have left. We, on the other hand, have decided to get off M's 'ferris-wheel to nowhere' and move in a 'line' of OUR OWN choosing, not HIS. Am I happy now? Well, I'm getting 'there' alot faster than I was while sending all of my devotion to the FAT ONE! - BTW, YOUR LORD said that 1+1=11. So much for his need for education, right? How profound of him. How wonderous is his insight into simple mathematics. He has a total understanding of life when HE says 'seeds are dead!' There is a word that describes MahaCULTji 'perfectly,' it is: MORON. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 09:50:33 (EDT)
From: Sant Ji Maharaj Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Lord in human form Message: Do you remember that one? 'Dear Reader, By the grace of Almighty Lord, we bring you the magazine And It Is Divine. You will find this magazine very different from others, because it shows not only the suffering of the world, but also a way out for all humanity. There has never been a time when the Lord of Creation did not manifest Himself in human form, and come to this planet Earth to do away with evil and spread the True Knowledge. But history is a pendulum which is always in swing. There have been so many scriptures, but still people have never been able to understand Him. Divine Light Mission wants to bring world peace by sharing the Knowledge which is within us by the grace of Almighty Lord. In this magazine, we hope to give information about the peace which lives within us, which Guru Maharaj Ji reveals.' Sant Ji Maharaj Is there anything to add? Jean-Michel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 20:24:30 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Enjoy Life Conversations Message: Just a quick comment on the conversations portion of the enjoylife premie site. Pardon me if I am bringing up a subject already covered recently. The webmasters of this site want us to give our full names and locations with our messages, but they reserve the right to CHANGE WHAT WE SAY? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. But this is NOT a cult, right? :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 21:56:52 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: The Enjoy Life Conversations Message: IMHO they won't change what you say, they just won't put your message on line if they think it's too weird. This is how Harlan and Mili's site operated, although they let ANYONE who was a premie post on their guestbook. Thus some posts appeared that sounded a bit off the wall, too devoted, stuck in the 1970's, or whatever. I don't fault Harlan and Mili for doing this, by the way - I think they were relatively honest, especially as compared to the folks at enoyinglife.com. I should note that Harlan and Mili wouldn't publish posts by known exes (although Mili has since softened up his attitude towards some of us exes, though... :) ) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 22:16:03 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Enjoy Life Conversations Message: Katie, Far be it from me to stand in the way of your respect for Mili but I think you're giving it away a little easy here. Don't you remember that the one time premies actually started a real, live discussion on the Harlan and Mili Premie Guestbook, Mili shut them down? Premies were finally beginning to compare notes. They had discrepancies to resolve -- Is He or Isn't He? -- and Mili essentially told them to shut up. Remember? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 00:13:30 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Enjoy Life Conversations Message: I think you are right. They probably won't change anything anyone writes, but they give no guarantees...just tell you that if you submit, they have the right to edit or change whatever you write. Yuck!~ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:19:54 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Enjoy Life Conversations Message: Dear Jim - I do remember that, but he didn't delete their messages, just told them to quit arguing. It was sort of like something (almost, anyway), that might happen on here. Do you think that's going to happen on enjoyinglife.com? Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 20:05:35 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The EV sarong Message: I have just received a gift, courtesy of the beautiful and generous Ms. TD, and her friend JW: the famous 'never-been-worn 25th-anniversary hand-screen-printed EV sarong'. Actually, this sarong is really beautiful. It does have a bunch of lotus flowers on it, but they've lost their negative association for me. The design looks like Japanese kimono crests, and doesn't have any EV initials worked into it (as far as I can tell, anyway). I'm definitely planning on using it, so I'm just warning all you premies out there - if you see a fortyish blonde with an EV sarong on, it's probably me! (I WON'T be wearing a coconut shell bra, though!) I'll make sure to carry a bunch of Ex-premie.Org cards with me when I wear it - just in case. Thanks so much, TD (and JW)! Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 20:17:46 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Katie Subject: The EV sarong Message: Ahh, The Sarong! Mona and I were fortunate to bask in the presence of this Sacred Relic at dinner with TD and JW. It is an experience I shall treasure always, and I am enjoying this life even more for having touched its lovely grey pattern. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 00:46:39 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Katie Subject: Malibu mole is a premie again? Message: How about I send you a nifty necklace and pen and watch and some other rawat bric a brak? It will help my pay you back for sending me that spiritaul book 'overheard conversations with some guys mistaken notions of god.' Turns out two of my sisters had read that book on thier own and so I was able to deprogram them from it since I read it-so thanks for help! Here is the book in a nutshell-you are god- Er, I mean, I am god, you too I guess, if you say so that is. It is up to you to declare that. Thats all it takes to have membership in the eternal godhead. Assumption! Merely IDENTIFY with the divine! You can just assume the mantel of I am god status! Trent leads the way! Nice of all those new age types to try to help us into godhead status. Too bad that isnt the way life is designed. Makes me wonder what happened to the malibu mole. HE thought this line of thinking had merit. Problem is, that leaves you vulnerable to rawat's trip if you done watch it. He might have gone to that financial 'party' at rawats and got his godhead wires crossed. If you look in that book, you will see that rawat is not only excused, but he is the goal! I kid you not. That master schenanagin stuff is very much presented as the way it is in life. Classic eastern thinking, and that is where that - conversations with god- author got all his rap from. rawat is the ultimate in that guys eyes. eastern thinking is full of unreality and dreamland fantasy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:10:26 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: bill Subject: Say WHAT? Message: Dear Bill - I've got no idea about what/where malibu mole is (sorry). About the sarong - it's pretty, a very nice ex-premie gave it to me, and I like it. It doesn't have M's picture plastered all over it, or swans or anything. Don't you think I'm deprogrammed enough to wear it (it's been 21 years!)? I really don't want any more DLM/EV stuff (unless you have a coffee cup with Rawat's face on it: VP wants one bad). About 'Conversations with God' - I was not too fond of that book myself. I couldn't finish reading it. I think some people really liked it, but it was people who had a different idea about god than I did. I think that a lot of the people who liked it were people who were raised with the idea that you are born with original sin, and that god is a mean person who is going to punish you if you feel good, or have a good time, or like yourself. I think it probably helps those people a lot. By the way, I thought Trent was OK. I think he'd been knocked around a bit in life, and taught that he was basically bad, and that book was probably good for him. I do think it's good to move on from that book after a while, but I also think it's really important for people to think that they are basically ALL RIGHT before they can start picking up the pieces. Take care, Bill, Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 18:38:59 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Katie Subject: To Katie Message: The Malibu Mole was a person who was posting here about what was going on in the inner-sanctum. He recently posted that he was going to the annual party MJ hosts. MJ invites all of his hard-working drones to this party (people who work for Amtext and other MJ businesses). He gives each of them a present (two years ago the gift was a gold pendant of some sort) from his hand to theirs. The mole promised to get back to us but didn't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 19:46:05 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: To Katie Message: Thanks, Gail. I actually tried to track down our Mole about a week ago because I read your message of concern, but no reply yet. I'm just not convinced yet that the Mole is now a premie - or worse - (but I could be wrong, I suppose). Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 03:18:44 (EDT)
From: Malibu Mole Email: None To: Katie Subject: To Katie Message: the get together at the Residence was relatively low key 100 or so bookbuyers and the company owner thanking and stroking all involved. I served cucumber sandwiches to the worker bees. I'm alive and well, thank you very much, Gail et al. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 10:14:03 (EDT)
From: Katie et. al Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Thanks, Malibu! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 14:29:29 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Katie Subject: The EV sarong Message: I'm definitely planning on using it, so I'm just warning all you premies out there - if you see a fortyish blonde with an EV sarong on, it's probably me! (I WON'T be wearing a coconut shell bra, though!) Thata girl, Katie!! About time someone wore a sarong the correct way - bare-breasted, like God intended. But nobody's gonna notice your hair color you know... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 15:10:51 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Brian Subject: Thanks, Brian honey... Message: Sheesh - should have known that YOU would pick up on that one! But just think of how many Ex-premie.org cards I'll be able to give out... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 15:58:37 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: New Links Message: Due to a cooperative venture between Brian and Jean-Michel, there is finally a good link to Jean-Michel's 'EV/DLM Papers' site on the links page of Ex-Premie.org. You can either go directly to J-M's home page, or can go to a table of contents that will take you wherever you want to go in his site. I assume everyone on here has seen this site, but if not, don't miss it. Brian has also added links to the Magical Mystery Tour (flameless) forum, the enjoyinglife site, and to the premie forum. Check it out at Ex-premie.org links Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 17:20:53 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: New Links Message: Thanks for putting the links here, Katie. The morons who fixed my computer (FINALLY...Sheesh!) erased my bookmarks. Anything new happening here? VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 18:30:02 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: VP Subject: New Links Message: Hi Veep - Glad to see you're back on line! Let me know if you need any URL's. New premie site at enjoyinglife.com is the biggest news. Also, CD took over the moderator's job at the Paradise premie forum, and Sir David and Gerry are cooperating on the MMT forum now (last I heard, anyway). Jean-Michel has put some amazing things on his site, but not sure what was there before you left and what wasn't - check his table of contents. Otherwise, nothing much, or at least nothing that I can put on a public forum... :) Take care, VP. We missed you. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 19:54:49 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Thanks, Katie Message: Thank you, Katie. I am glad to have my computer back again. You can email the stuff you can't put on a public forum-snicker! :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 20:47:11 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: New Journeys entry Message: Helen Clark sent this in today. Thanks, Helen. It's a very welcome addition. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 22:13:53 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: New Journeys entry Message: My advice to any who are in pain from the experience -- seek therapy, get the emotions out, get your mind clear, embrace your mind as your best friend, not your enemy, trust your instincts, embrace the experience, don't be too embarrassed by it don't beat yourself up about the past. It's what you make of your life now that counts. That about covers it, Helen, thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 14:22:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Let's nitpick, Maja Message: Well, someone's got to do it. Here's something Maja, the premie, said: I have met so many different people from all kinds of backgrounds, from so many countries and with so many different temperaments. And so often I have been able to share something beautiful with many of them. I sincerely feel, that in our heart of hearts we are all so similar: wanting to enjoy, wanting to feel free, wanting to love and just live, just be, without being judged, just wanting to feel the generosity of this life. Two things -- 1) Maja, forgive me for thinking that the one thing you won't find in today's homogenized premie soup is a mix of 'many different temperments.' I mean, take yourself for instance. Is there anything, anything at all you can point to in your own statement tht distinguishes you in the slightest from anyone else there, tmeperment-wise? Sorry, sweetheart, I just don't see it. 2) Why would you think you're not being judged? I'd say you're being judged to death myself. Your thoughts? Oh, by the way, don't worry about keeping them brief or crisp, clear and simple. Editorial content's left to you, you know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:09:52 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MJ's program October 3, 1998 Message: The Brisbane Event - 3 October 1998 First reports by phone this morning from Mary Campbell are that Maharaji was on great form speaking with wonderful humour for one hour and 20 minutes at the 1700 seater hall at the Brisbane Convention Centre. He covered a broad range of subjects from the weather to the process of receiving Knowledge. More updates here, as we get them... ______________________________________ note - it only holds 1 700 people (not many for Australia is it) He talked about the weather and receiving K. How profound! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 08:39:46 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Taking Knowledge to the World Message: Lately I've been getting really really excited about what I see happening around me. In particular, the sudden incredible reappearance of a premie website on the internet. I had been feeling pretty badly to realize that this wonderful Knowledge, which can bring such incredible peace and harmony to people, is not being made available to mankind like it should be. Sure, there's a bunch of us who have been blessed with true understanding. But there are so many more - so many many more - people out there who have yet to pry this wonderful gift out of Maharaji's grabby fingers, and it's so sad to have been thinking that it just wasn't going to happen. You know what I mean? But it's such a miracle that now premies are starting to take responsibility that they had previously been abdicating to Maharaji - to take this Knowledge to the world! Now they openly proclaim the benefits that they have received, and are sharing the information to the entire world. As the word spreads among the premie community that there is a site proclaiming that you can actually benefit from Knowledge, it's only a matter of time before aspirants begin pouring onto the Internet in search of the meditation techniques that are being made freely available to everyone. Bypassing Maharaji entirely, premies are boldly encouraging independent thought and action! Soon the web search engines will point the way to the secret pages where the techniques are available!! Video sales will drop like a private jet that just ran out of fuel!!! Money that had previously been wasted on VCR's will now be invested in computer equipment and web browsing software! Even MORE web pages will spring up around the world as more premies participate in the sharing of Knowledge with their fellow man! No longer will premies need to fly around the world to be in the presence of the truth. What Maharaji has been hoarding to himself will now be shared openly in forums like this one. Many many more of them will become available online, and we won't even need to gather together in a geographical location in order for us to enjoy each others company. If Maharaji wants to join in, even HE's welcome to! These are incredibly exciting times to be living in, I gotta tell ya! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 17:01:02 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: The Keith channel Message: Check us out over in the ''minor leagues.'' sissy forum Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 18:59:50 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Gerry Subject: The Keith channel Message: It looks like his armour is cracking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 10:51:50 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Brian Subject: Press & Money Message: Dear Brian, I'm really glad you're taking your service to heart. I think I want to share some of my doubts with you. I met a premie I've been knowing for a long time in the street the other day, and I invited him at my office for a cup of tea (with milk). The guy came, and we had a very interesting conversation for about 2 hours. He asked me questions regarding what he called my 'crusade' on the net. I explained him in details what I think about the (ex?) Lord, his various businesses, his organization and his assistants, his philosophy, all the abuses I know of within m's organizations, etc. The guy listened to me, and he finally explained me his main worry: THE PRESS. Believe it or not, premies are really still worried about the press. That was a difficult one for me: Why are premies so worried about the press? I think I finally understood: they're worried about press reporters coming and interviewing premies randomly, and finally unveiling the stupidity of m's teaching. So many premies could really say things that could be so harmful to m! I told the guy that a lot what already on the net, and that they should not worry about the press anymore. I think we're really doing here a great service to m and the premies, and that they should really be thankful to us. They don't need to have all that security at the program entrances anymore: everything about k is available on the net...... What a relief! I also met an another interesting guy about 10 days ago. It was a rainy sunday afternoon, and I was having a cup of coffee in a cafe, in some nice place in Paris. There was a guy seated next to me who was intriguing me. I knew I knew him, I wasn't sure. I finally remembered: he was the manager (not a premie) of a travel agency working with EV usually for trips to India, Nepal, Australia & far east. I had been there myself, and purchased a few tickets to India etc. When the guy was ready to leave, he also looked at me, we said hello, and that was the start of a 1 hour 1/2 conversation. It just so happened that he had been invited for lunch by an EV responsible a few days before we met (bad luck Mr Rawat). As EV is bringing him a lot of clients, he usually gives them a percentage on whatever he sells for trips to programs, usually as free tickets, plus a commission. I explained him what these free tickets and commissions were used for, and how that money would in fact get to m as 'gift'. He was amazed! We made some calculations on how much 'gifts' m would get from tickets and hotel rooms, that was a lot! It looks like m gets the commissions on thousands of tickets and hotel rooms whenever he has an international convention - which happens quite often, less for national programs. Of course it's only a fraction of the 'gifts' he gets from amtext and other businesses. He finally understood that he had to be much more careful with that kind of deal with EV and premies, and that all that illegal money given to m could be a problem for him and his colleagues (it looks like they know each other quite well). I gave him the URL of the ex-premie.org. I think that Mr Rawat lost a few hundreds of thousands of $ a year on that rainy afternoon, and that I did a great service to Him and His mission. In case IRS got to know where all these 'gifts' come from, don't you premie think that would cause a great dammage to m? Jai! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 12:26:41 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Press & Money Message: Jai indeed, Jean-Michel. BIG UP TO YA! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 13:39:21 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Press & Money Message: If you're really into it you could try to release the info to the press- probably by trying to contact specific people who would be interested and having a little patience (i.e. contacting them a few times if/when they don't respond. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 21:08:29 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Press & Money Message: Instead of Jai--JAIL! Thanks for the info. I can't believe it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 00:31:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Really, Jeff? Message: Jeff Segal posted this expressive Expression: I was so surprised to hear about this site. Finally this 'worldwide web' is being put to a worthwhile use, to inspire and not to snare. I shall certainly visit it often and look forward to reading what other lovers of this Knowledge have to say. That's always a source of inspiration to me. Many thanks to you people for having had the insight and determination to realise this web site. First, why was Jeff so surprised? Because premies had been following Maharaji's orders to hide and not communicate about him on the net? Of course. Why else would a web site about anything these days raise even an eyebrow? Second, who's been doing the snaring around here? Has anyone been using this web site to snare people? That would be terrible. I'm not even sure what snaring is but I doubt very much that anyone would knowingly allow themselves to get snared by a web site of all things. That just sounds downright cruel. Poor Jeff. Must have really been through it somewhere, getting snared and all that. Third, what is it Jeff looks forward to reading that he hasn't already heard more than enough of a million times over? I mean there are only so many ways one can make a Maharaji bubble bath, aren't there? Again, IF the site continues and IF it actually allows any discussion on its 'conversations' page, well, we'll just have to see, won't we? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 01:58:15 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Rally Message: >Second, who's been doing the snaring around here? Has anyone been using this web site to snare people? That would be terrible. I'm not even sure what snaring is but I doubt very much that anyone would knowingly allow themselves to get snared by a web site of all things. Perhaps he was writing about his reaction to banner ads. Or reflecting on the imaginative trio of: www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.com www.whitehouse.org You have caught wind of something once again Jim. This is one snarling site. I bet happy and content damn near smiley face Gerry who knows the value of a good fart can tell you about snaring in the woods. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 06:29:31 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: CD Subject: Rally Message: 'www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.com www.whitehouse.org', At.last.someone.who's.able.to.point.us.to.mr.nicey.nice's.'enemies' Thank.you.CD.From.the.bottom.of.my.heart,.I'm.really.feeling. it.inside.today.Amazing.how,the,grace.works.isn't.it?! You.didn't.miss.out.on.all.the.net.related.stuff., re.smiley.himself,.did.you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:58:41 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: Was it something I said? Message: I bet happy and content damn near smiley face Gerry who knows the value of a good fart can tell you about snaring in the woods. I asked Patty why CD would say this and then I remembered it might have been a bad thing I said about CD's boy, the BM and Patty said, ''Yeah, it was probably something adolescent and irreverent.'' 'Well, I remembered saying that I '' enjoy slagging the fat ass has been guru/mediation teacher/master because he's fucked up a bunch of people.'' ''Yeah, that would probably do it,'' she said. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 17:33:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Rally Message: Excellent post, Chris! You've really hit the nail on the head this time. (??????????????) By the way, what do you think about the new premie site? You realize, of course, that even your safe, noncommittal, well, actually, obscure posts will be subject to censorship there. Not to mention the impact it'll have on the premie forum you've recently taken over stewardship of. What do you think, Chris? Will we lose you now that your cult has actually dared to set up a storefront on the web? Hm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 06:14:30 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jim Subject: Really, Jeff? Message: I think that the 'conversations' page is going to be a very stilted affair if the premie forum is anything to go by. Or perhaps I'm being negative. But with only positive input and clever editing, the conversation could go something like this: Mary: It's so good to have this life and have such a precious gift from Maharaji. George: Yes, I agree. Harry: So do I. Mary: Err, well, it's so good to have this conversations page at last where we can share with each other. George: Yes, you're right there. Jane: Hi George. Peter: It's so good etc etc etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 06:39:10 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Sir D Subject: Conversations - continued... Message: Oldtimer: I love Maharaji so much and I just want to surrender at his feet and give him my heart. (This message is deleted) Newaspirant: I've been watching videos now for five years and feel so fortunate to have this life. Mary: We're so fortunate to know the master at this time. George: Right on sister. Ron: Did I ever tell you about the time I was in India and was lying ill in bed and Maharaji told me to leave my sickness in my blankets etc etc etc. End of conversations for the day as everybody falls asleep. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:57:14 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Laughed out loud... Message: Thanks, David. Too true, unfortunately. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 20:43:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Good one Message: That's pretty funny, David. I just wonder, though, if Oldtimer's message might not just be 'edited' instead of deleted. You know: 'I love Maharaji so much, I just want to express my gratitude in a unique way.' Something like that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 20:01:46 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks, Sir Cheddar Message: I about spit a little Debbie across the room (take THAT, Dr. Atkins!) It's really nice to be back. Thanks for the laugh. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:11:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I think I get it Message: I'm reading the many entries on the new premie site and tryign to figure out a few things. Mainly, I'm trying to understand just how these premies got this way. How did they end up speaking in such a unified voice? Really, read the Expressions section, or the Lives, and they're all the same. Like the Midwich Cuckoos, I suppose. So here's my theory. In the earliest days of Maharaji's cult in the west, all the premies dutifully picked up the style and substance of the satsang they heard, al of which came from one of three places: Maharaji and his Holy Family, the Mahatmas, and the few very first western cult members, people like Whittaker, Apter, etc. We all fell right into place, with all the nuance and passion one expects of well-trained method actors. We'd HEARD impressive satsang about the knowledge of all knowledges, the light of all lights, guru of all gurus. Now that we'd experienced a bit of it all personally (or so we told ourselves) we'd simply mimic their style. It was the style of truth, there were no fads, fashions or options to it. Pretty straightforward when all you gotta do is sing the praises of the living perfect master, yada yada yada. Anyone could do it. I read the letter I wrote my mother and sister inviting them to Millenium and cringe at the blatant imitation of an Indian holy man I was trying to pull off. But that was the program and most of us jumped in with glee. Hell, it wqs fun, wasn't it? More fun to give satsang then to be one of the few who always declined when called upon. And, of course, the only satsang we knew was what we'd heard -- this knowledge is ..... or the mind is like .... or the Perfect Master is .... Giving 'good satsang' just meant that you did a fairly good imitation, that's all. Anyhow, for some reason or other, I'm not really sure why, Maharaji allowed the premies to play with the formula after he got married. Maybe he was just having too much fun getting laid or something, heady with the freedom of telling his mother and older brothers to fuck off. Who knows? He's too cowardly to open up and explain himself so we can only speculate. But for whatever reason, Maharaji let the premies back off the role playing a bit. By late '74 the Americans particularly, and by mid '75 all the western premies, were trying to find a new voice that somehow didn't simply parrot the same old script. Of course, this caused more problems than Maharaji ever expected. People talked themselves right out of wanting to devote their lives to him, lock, stock and barrel, if you can imagine. Don't forget, he was still playing big stakes with everyone. Knowledge was still the ultimate PATH, we were still trying to GET somewhere supposedly. Maharaji wasn't then willing to water this thing down to its current 'hey, I'm happy. Happy inside!' state. But premies were just getting too far out from under his thumb. As Bob Mishler so well describes in his radio interview (transcribed elsewhere on this site) Maharaji was confused about maintaining his power base and income flow. So he did a reversal. What he did then was really nasty. He turned the entire experimental freedom era against the premies and used it as evidence that we were still so weak, so tainted by the world, so ultiamtely undeserving of his grace. He literally taught us a knew liturgy of shame and led us through ugly, mind-numbing, mercilessly self-destructive 'prayers' of weakness. I posted one or two last month. Threats like: 'Because without Guru Maharaj Ji, everything just deteriorates in our lives. And it's like, maybe to some people that's like, 'Well, nothing has deteriorated in my life yet.' And yet we have to understand that for those people it is deteriorating, and that we have to come to that one conclusion in our own hearts.' And 'guided prayers' like: [Y]ou say, 'Guru Maharaj Ji, help.' Like I was saying yesterday, you say, 'If you could find any place, any point, anywhere, anything, if You could just find a little place for me, then just please stick me in somewhere, because I want to be on Your boat, and I want to be with You so desparately. I am already indepbted to You. Don't expect anything from me, I will do whatever I can by Your Grace, but don't expect -- I am already too much indevted to You. How can I ever repay You, what can I ever do? And I can't pay You even if I have the whole wealth of this entire world: When I can't even pay you with that, Guru Maharaj Ji, then what have I got, what is there that I can give You?' So, once again, conforming to the master's wishes, we took on that language of humiliation and despair. I mean, Maharaji liteally had us second-guessing ourselves for even wanting to get up from our seats after he left the stage. Everything was mind, everything was dangerous. So long as we just locked on and sung his praises, maybe then we'd make it through the treacherous waters of this world. Anyway, that went on for a while and, again, for reasons which we'll never know until the fat man sings, Maharaji started loosening his grip again in the mid eighties. I mean it's certainly not because the work had paid off and premies, finally, were reaching the promised land. Remember all those old satsangs about breaking thorugh the sound barrier and how much the plane's going to shake but you just have to barrel right through and all that? Well, it's not at all as if people actually BROKE through to 'that infinite place' he used to taunt us with. Hardly. I mean, bakc in the early days his whol emphasis had been on working towards a specific goal: 'realizing the knowledge.' By the late seventies no one ever spoke in those terms. Now I bet you'll be lucky to find a premie who'll admit that that was exactly what we were trained to aim for. No, no one accomplished anything. Still, maybe just because people were really starting to leave him in droves, he loosened the collar a bit. Well, he ended up loosening it a lot. If no one was trying to realize Knowledge anymore -- or become 'real' devotees, or however you want to call it -- there wasn't much need for marathon satsangs anymore was there? It stopped being a moment-to-moment thing. Indeed, over the last fifteen years it seems to have become more of a paycheck to paycheck thing. This lessened intensity offered one advantage. Gone was the need to keep the premies locked in second by second. Who cares if they thought a bit, ate whatever, even had sex, did their own thing? In fact, Maharaji must have realized that he could do a neat manouevre to stem the rapid detrition rate. By making the demands of premiedom exceedingly lighter, lighter than anyone'd ever imagined, completely off the map, really, in terms of the path he'd been telling us about all along, Maharaji could keep all sorts of premies who would never have to risk 'LEAVING THE LIVING LORD' just to have a little fun and go for a smoke outside afterwards. Again, we can only speculate about his motives but it sure looks to me as if that's what happened. He turned his thing into TM. It was a fair compromise for everyone. The premies didn't have to go anywhere and while they might be approaching nirvana, hell, noone was really getting there anyway, so what the fuck? Relax a bit, will ya'? So Maharaji took back all the satsang. But, when you think of it, did anyone really care? No one was stumping for god realization anymore, no one was really that into it like before. sure, let him do all the talking. There were some major inconsistencies anyone with half a brain could see. Fine, let HIM deal with that shit. You know? So, now, years later we have this new,fledgling premie site. For the first time in years, and with only questionable condoning from the man, premies are expressing themselves again in public. But what are they saying? Nothnig at all really. Gone are all the intimations of a path like in the early seventies. Gone are the remonstrations of piety and nervous, slavish devotion like in the late seventies. What's left is a very Orwellian 'Life is GRRRREEEEEAAAAAAATTTT!' 'Expression' that's about as real as the supporting cast of Truman. The premies are trying this out now. Hey, they want to talk too, right? Beleive me, they, as a group, are walking on tendor hooks. If they even suggest the slightest doubt or question on that site, even the barest indication of something other than 'I'm enjoying life' the site will indeed be shut down in no uncertain terms. On the other hand, if the premies can show Maharaji that they can in fact keep all their messages 'crisp, clear and simple' as requested by the site people, maybe he'll allow them to repat themselves incessantly in this most limited and sueprficial way. Does anyone remember Alice the Goon from the old Popeye cartoon show? She was this zomebie-like pathetic mosntrosity who walked around with big, saucer eyes repeating the same phrase over and over: 'I love Popeye. I love Popeye.' Who'd have thought? Now, of course, the question is 'where to now?' Surely, after all we've already seen no one can really believe that the premies will settle into this narrowest band on the airwaves forever. I mean do the premies over there actually expect to collect thousands of messages exactly the same forever and ever ad infinitum? I mean there's safety and all that but there's also the human spirit we're talking about. I just wonder how long this is going to maintain itself and, then, what's next. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:28:36 (EDT)
From: x Email: None To: Jim Subject: I think I get it Message: Jim, That was really a great post. I'm also always amazed at how all the premies, Whoops, I mean PWK's, that I know and have seen here have the same exact way of thinking and expressing themselves. They always say the same things the same ways. In fact I don't think I've ever encountered a group of people as unoriginal, repressed and stagnant as the PWK's. It's exactly like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers, with a little Stepford Wives thrown in for good measure. Becoming a PWK seems like a good way to achieve a non-surgical lobotomy! If only the PWK's knew how embarassing they sound when they try to explain anything regarding their cult or their master. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 01:50:33 (EDT)
From: Alice the Goon Email: None To: Jim Subject: I think I get it Message: Yowza Jimbob, the grace is really flowing and you are incandesent. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 06:55:36 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Jim Subject: I think I get it Message: I had to read your post twice. There is a lot of truth in what you say. Well written. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 12:50:47 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: I don't! Message: collect thousands of messages exactly the same forever and ever ad infinitum? Even the most stubborn premie will understand this, and they won't like the idea of showing so much stupidity on the net. What's going to happen (to the enjoyinglife site)? Are they going to advertise it on the search engines? Do they realize that I (and so many people now) have their ridiculous pages on their computers' hard disks, and even if they close their site, we can have them all on a 'negative' site? I would of course erase the premies' name and email. Someone said that 'some premies' were pissed off seeing so much negativity about the BM on the net. And supposedly their idea is to show something positive and nice about k! What they are really showing is what they don't want to show, displaying the worse cultish speaking they can show. Do they really think that anybody without k would enjoy their testimonies? Is it supposed to be a propagation site? Or is it only to show the premies that m can also speak on the net? So childish. Keep them waiting that m will make some miracle about the situation? How would you call this situation? Mr Rawat you're going nowhere on the net, you knew it! Have you lost your senses and your grip on some dedicated premies? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 14:24:37 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I don't! Message: What's going to happen (to the enjoyinglife site)? Are they going to advertise it on the search engines? I don't think they need to approach the search engines to get listed. As far as I know, all the main search engines have robotic 'spyders' that search the web constantly looking for new URL's or old ones that have vanished. It is just possibly that the premies have included a 'Meta tag' in their html code, which I believe can deter these robots from making a listing... Hmm that's an idea , I am going to take a look at their source html to see what they've done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 18:10:18 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Anon Subject: Yup! Message: Anon & JM: The web crawlers have already got 'em. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 17:26:06 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Everyone Subject: That Video Message: Well, I just watched the LOTU video and it stirred up all kinds of crap. Mostly, I am embarrassed that I had anything to do with such a scam. The fanatical claims of the premies, the constant looks of idiot glee, the nasty WPC guys (I'd have slit his throat right there, a Lover of God says), the moron with the flower, just brought back how goofy everything was. Why did I stay with it any longer than three weeks? And I didn't remember Sweetie Pie as being so greasy, but he really comes off smarmy and creepy, even when he is sitting up on his throne in his cute little Krsna suit. Sheesh, if I let my daughter Anne see this she'll lose any respect she may have for me! I am so glad that I got out of that nut-group long ago! Okay, who's next for this thing? E-mail me at mgdbach@ziplink.net and it will wings its way to you. Thanks for sending it to me, JW! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 17:31:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Show your daughter Message: Mickey, Show the girl. Come on, it IS hilarious. Something to be shared with everyone. Joke's on us? Whatever. It's just really funny, that's all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 17:35:50 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: Show your daughter Message: Okay Jim, I'll show here, and then I will post her comments. It really IS hilarious, but it is even more embarrassing than the clothing we wore back then, IMO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 01:35:44 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Show your daughter Message: Dear Mickey, Just thought I'd tell you about my daughters and LOTU. The 17 yr old wasn't interested. I had to threaten her with a grounding if she wouldn't watch it for just a miniute. She FORCED herself to watch it for almost a minute. I didn't ground her. Then my oldest daughter was home between living in Boston and moving to CA and just saw it on the VCR. Her friends, who are like my niece and nephew, were here for dinner. They all watched the whole thing laughing and looking totally amazed, shocked really, at me, giving me those Little Rascals eyes. Good luck with your daughter, she's the goth right? Ought to be interesting. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 17:33:35 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: everyone Subject: and another thing..... Message: I submitted something for the 'wit and wisdom' page for that bunch who are enjoying life, and it has yet to appear! I submitted it two days ago, and everything was spelled correctly, so what is their problem? And when are they going to get the so-called 'communications' page up? You know, I'm enjoying my life, too, so I should be able to post stuff there. In fact, I'm enjoying my life more than any of them would enjoy my life; I'm having lots of fun, and tomorrow I get to bless peoples' pets -- tell me THAT isn't going to be enjoyable! Faddah Mickey Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 18:00:15 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: and another thing..... Message: Michael - they probably won't post anything by you on 'enjoying life' because you post on here. Brian posted them a (sincere) post of congratulations - it was up briefly and then they deleted it. Regards from Katie P.S. Glad you liked (?) the LOTU. I watched it with Peter and he thought M had absolutely no charisma. What did Mona think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:03:03 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Katie Subject: Where they're going wrong Message: And indeed, where Maharaji has gone so wrong is that the principle that is in the Bible, you know, something like more joy in Heaven over one lost sheep being found or the story of the prodigal son, where his Father killed the fatted calf and feasted when his son returneth and all the other stories and parables in this vein. Well what Maharaji and these premies cannot see is that they're uptight man, they're really just an exclusive club. Looking at it from the outside, we can see it. All this worrying about what people might think if the wrong words are said, all the pretence. God, it stinks to high Heaven! If they really want to run a successful cult they should take a look at the Jesusfreaks or the Moonies or perhaps even the Jehova Witnesses or Mormons. Now do they exhibit the sort of introspection up their own backsides as the premies and Maharaji do? No. You know, we can hardly even call Maharaji's thing a cult any more. I'd just call it a club, myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:32:47 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Where they're going wrong Message: ' is that they're uptight man, they're really just an exclusive club' And SO unsexy! The suits. The ties. The WALK. THAT smile. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 17:30:06 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Mickey and Katie Subject: Have you ever married pets? Message: Faddah, I mean have you ever performed the ceremony, not actually married the pets yourself. Just curious. I didn't know that people blessed their pets, but it does sound fun. Katie, Does this mean the premies are CENSORING their material and/or limiting who can contribute to their web site? Hmmmmmmm... Enjoying life, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 18:03:11 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: Have you ever married pets? Message: VP wrote: Katie, Does this mean the premies are CENSORING their material and/or limiting who can contribute to their web site? Hmmmmmmm... Looks like it, Veep. First Brian got deleted (and it WAS a sincere message), then Mickey never made it on to the site, with a favorite quote (of course, we don't know what the quote was...) Katie P.S. I can't believe you asked Mickey if he's ever 'married pets'? Bet HE'll be glad to have you back! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 19:48:08 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Katie Subject: Have you ever married pets? Message: (of course, we don't know what the quote was...) The quote was 'Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.' A perfectly good quote for all ex-premies to live by. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 19:55:12 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Have you ever married pets? Message: I figured that was what you sent in. And you wondered why they wouldn't print it... Sheesh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 20:22:15 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Katie Subject: Have you ever married pets? Message: You know, right now I'm wondering why I have never married any pets! Sheesh! There must be a lot of money there, what with all these pets living in sin and everything. Thanks for the idea, VP! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 17:28:52 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Going Too Far Message: Mickey, I'm all in favor of marriage, between consenting adults, both heterosexual marriage and gay marriage, should Hawaii ever get it's act together and finally legalize it, but pet marriage is just going too far. Can pets really be 'consenting' to the marriage, and if they aren't consenting, aren't they being forced into something against their will, in some kind of 'arranged' marriage, kind of like what they do to the Moonies in that cult? So, even if there money in it, I don't think you should do it. I'm also opposed to marriage between domestic (non-pet) animals as well, even if they do use that word 'husbandry.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 21:33:27 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: JW Subject: Going Even Further Message: 'Can pets really be 'consenting' to the marriage, and if they aren't consenting, aren't they being forced into something against their will, in some kind of 'arranged' marriage, kind of like what they do to the Moonies in that cult?' But just think of the mass pet marriages; I'd be on T.V.! What about inter-species marriages; cats with dogs, lizards with hamsters? Would congress pass a 'protection of pet marriages' to prevent IS weddings? 'Pet marriage means dog with dog, and cat with cat in God's eyes. It goes against nature to allow a cat to marry a sparrow!' Maybe I have gone too far; forgive me, please!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 08, 1998 at 10:54:13 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Coming into your own Message: I think you may have really found a niche for yourself. I'm proud of you for turning all the anger around and using your experience with BM to expand your horizons so you can make something for.. I mean of yourself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 08, 1998 at 11:32:49 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Going Even Further Message: MP: Lizards and hamsters???? Now, THERE's a mental picture that I NEVER should have had......... he he he ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:58:58 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: May I see that video. nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 16:34:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What they DON'T say Message: Okay, I admit it, I can't get enough of the new premie site. But, honestly, I'm fascinated with premie deception, self and otherwise. Here's an example. Katharita Lamoza, explaining what it was like to get sucked into a cult in its early stages, says: Accepting Maharaji as my teacher meant giving up a lot of my concepts. But I made a promise, more to myself than to him at that point, that if Knowledge showed me that thing I'd been seeking for so long, I would make a life-long commitment to it. Now here's the funny stuff. Sure we all 'gave up a lot of concepts' then. Concepts like 'The Lord Couldn't Possibly Come as a Young Kid From India.' Concepts like 'This Life is Mine to Do With as I Please.' Like 'My Mind is Natural and Something to Be Proud, Not Afraid Of.' Like 'I Exist.' THOSE are the kinds of concepts Katharita gave up. When Maharaji came into the room she dove in prostration, giddy with delight that the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings, the Most Realized and Perfect Embodiment of God, Higher Even Than The Rest of The Great Holy Family, was walking in front of her. She sang out loud and clear to any who'd listen -- and everyone else for that matter -- that the time had come to stop anything and everything: 'The Lord Has Come!' She prayed incessantly in her meditation for Maharaji to simply remove her mind once and for all, to make her merge with him eternally. If one didn't know all that, one would read Katharita as saying that she already had a whole lot of big, religious, perhaps even fanatical ideas, and that Maharaji simply washed them away, showing her how simple and undemanding true spirituality was. What a fucking sleazy game these premies are playing with the truth. Call me a curmudgeon, but at least I'm an honest one. Dear Katharita: ..... naw, forget it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 12:54:22 (EDT)
From: JF Email: None To: Everyone Subject: For the REAL thing Message: If you want to read the positive and the right please visit: www.enjoyinglife.org Do not forget that you still have a heart. -- JF Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 13:10:40 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: JF Subject: For the REAL thing Message: The authors of the site may be interested to know that I cannot access it on my Internet Explorer 2 in Wndows 3.1. I've tried accessing the site using Lynx but that's a nightmare and I can only access a couple of pages. It's virtually unreadable using the Lynx web browser. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 16:02:15 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir D Subject: For the REAL thing Message: The problem comes because they're using 'frames'. That looks nice, but you need a recent browser to have the right display. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 21:59:41 (EDT)
From: Nigel/Enid/Larkin Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: JF Subject: READ THIS PLEASE! Message: Hello JF. You're not Jonathan, so perhaps you're Josie. Welcome! Can we talk? email me if you like. Do not forget that you still have a heart 'Heart'. You come here to talk about heart. How dare you?!! Your post has, for some reason, made me angrier than any other I have read in nearly a year of sharing stuff on this forum with good people who will talk back when you speak to them and sharing wasted words with others who say their piece then vanish like the melting snow when April comes around. I've quit this forum for a bit, but you're my one more cup of coffee for the road... Heart. I assume you believe in courtesy. I know Brian will not censor your post even though it encourages web-browsers to look up the so-called 'enjoyinglife' site and start mailing money to Mr Rawat five months of glassy-eyed video watching down the line. (Brian has maybe too much heart). Can we assume the enjoyinglife site will reciprocate and insert a link to 'ex-premie.org'. Common courtesy, surely - What's Maharaji's position on common courtesy, BTW? Heart. Have you read through the 'Journeys' section here? Do these contributers have no heart? You could look up my Journey, for a start. It's nothing spectacular - I was never in the ashram - but you might understand where I'm coming from. There are things I was too ashamed to put in that journey regarding the way I treated people over a number of years through taking Maharaj Ji's words too literally. It always a guessing game, wasn't it? I mean, surely Maharaji wanted me to tell my dying brother the last time I met him alive that the Lord of the Universe was here among us... Perhaps that was that my misunderstanding. Peter died twenty years ago this month (Oct 20, 1978), an atheist to the last - thank God. Four days later I received 'knowledge'. The intervening days were spent at a 'knowledge' session listening to the words of a fairly well dressed and admittedly well-spoken stranger with nice aftershave known as David Smith. My family at the time wished it had been otherwise. And so to God do I. You talk about heart , JF. Where was my fucking heart then - or rather, where should it have been? Heart. You come here to talk about heart and point your crooked finger at some on-line propaganda sheet where the only thing anybody is allowed to say is Uncle Quentin is fucking cool, and expect us to feel guilty or something? Heart is about letting people be themselves and say whatever they will. You lot look like a bunch of New Age fascists. (Hey! Why is everybody Spanish? - is it the Franco legacy or maybe because Juan Miguel hasn't set up his 'ex' site yet?) Heart. We know where the line is drawn now. Keith Symons was allowed in to do his piece on the raindrop site because - although he's an ex-permie and totally bonkers - he doesn't say punishable things about Maharaj Ji and therefore cannot possibly deter innocent web-browsers from getting involved with the cult and sending postal orders. Heart = Maharaj Ji is nice. No more, no less. Better still - here is an ex with no regrets. Priceless. Heart. JF, you wrote: Do not forget that you still have a heart You pompous, patronising shite. Just who the fuck do you think you are to assume that anybody not still prostrating themselves at the feet of a middle-aged Indian multi-millionaire gentleman called Rawat has no heart? Heart is about love right? I know about love and so do my children, I hope. None of them will ever follow a guru (fingers crossed), though I'd probably sigh with relief if they joined up with the Maharishi. Love is about people, not guru-driven spiritual guilt trips/tripe. Heart. Read all the recent posts by Gail. Gail is the very embodiment of well-articulated sanity, yet flames from the heart, and wonders whether she needs therapy. Why would she do that? Because MAHARAJI FUCKS PEOPLE UP. HE FUCKED ME UP. HE'S STILL FUCKING PEOPLE UP. BECAUSE HE PRETENDS TO BE SOMETHING HE BLOODY WELL ISN'T. Do not forget that you still have a brain. Read my 'Guru is as Guru does post', if you'd like to discuss the rational stuff. If you're not willing to discuss, then fuck off back to guruland. (Josie gets some pretty good lines in chapter three...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:26:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nigel/Enid/Larkin Subject: READ THIS PLEASE! Message: I don't know, Nige. I think you're being a little hard on the guy. I mean, when I read that I did indeed remember I had a heart. I was all about to strike Laurie again for putting too much cilantro in the stir-fry (yes, I love the stuff but enough is enough, eh? I mean, who's fucking with whom here, you know?) And, I was planning to embezzle two clients and sell another one down the river. Why? I guess the simplest answer - simple, crisp and brief, acutally -- is that I was reminded about my heart. So you have to give him some credit, don't you? Food for thought. Jai Sat... I mean, Have a Nice Day! Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:24:54 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nigel/Enid/Larkin Subject: READ THIS PLEASE! Message: Nigel: PERFECT!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 08, 1998 at 17:25:59 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Nigel/Enid/Larkin Subject: READ THIS PLEASE! Message: Wow, Nigel, I got such a rush off reading this post of yours 5 days later! Thanks! Love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:38:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JF Subject: This chick, Jossi, is weird Message: Here's the advice she gave Bruce over on the old premie page (the premie forum): 'Bruce, I respect what you say. Doubt is a tool we all use to learn. I appreciate your honesty and if you keep to it, you will find what you need to find. Sometimes premies put a burden on others, seem 'elitists' and out of touch. Forgive them. Find your path by being sincere with yourself. Doubt until you get tears on your eyes. But keep humble, otherwise you will miss it. I loved your 'I want Krihsna to come to my chariot'. That is a wonderful way to put it. Just keep that want there, cherish it and cast aside your doubts by coming closer to your own heart. There is Krishna (I call him the Friend Inside) waiting for you. So close, so simple, so you. For me Maharaji brings me closer to the Friend Inside. He is such an inspiration. I am grateful to him and my gratitude is personal and direct to him. No 'inner circles' or hierarchies there. Hope you come at rest. Take care. -- Jossi' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 22:42:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: What the fuck?? Message: Nigel, by the way, what you said above was definitive. Please don't stay away too long. Meanwhile, what in the world could this mean? Ask questions but don't ask them? These people are doing something funny: Find your path by being sincere with yourself. Doubt until you get tears on your eyes. But keep humble, otherwise you will miss it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:09:15 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: What the fuck?? Message: Nigel, by the way, what you said above was definitive. Please don't stay away too long. Thank Jim. As to how long I can stay away will depend to some extent on whether I can even start staying away. But - as the kids told their folks during wartime: I'll be back by Christmas, for sure. I think I have to break the habit first, then come back and see whether I control the habit (I'll maybe give Enid one more outing). It is 4 am, over here, so I guess I am out of control again. BUT HAPPY! (please note, all you gloating guru-bloated self-satisfied prigs who think we're all sour-faced miserable spoilsports round here). Find your path by being sincere with yourself. Doubt until you get tears on your eyes. But keep humble, otherwise you will miss it. Dunno about you, but this sounds a bit like somebody choking the chicken...? By the way, Jim, you do so many good posts that people sometimes blink and miss them, but the one you just posted up above guji's policy changes through the years was something special, and I hope people don't miss it. All best. (will gladly discuss Dawkins via email whenever) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 01:23:11 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: nigel Subject: What the MILI?? Message: Did you happen to catch Mili's entry? 'If and when I practise knowledge, the only ones that know about it are HIM and Me.' gadzooks! 'Never was there any fee asked for it or any other obligation.' And Mili has spent many months here. Some rocks can be in the water for many months and you take them out and they dry in a minute like they were never in water. I heard that somewhere. Sounds like Mili. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:09:01 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: JF Subject: For the REAL thing Message: 'If you want to read the positive and the right please visit:' If you want to read the positive,you.obviously are not practicing enough. Need.to do some.work.on.the.faith.too. Then.you'll have.the.full.experience.of being.here,.the.support.for.previous.damage,. the.free.thinking,.THE.HUMOUR. Shall.visit.'enjoying.life'.for.the.amusing.postings. and.in.FULL.anticipation.of.the.open.page.starting.up, 'Do not forget that you still have a heart'. Thanks.for.that,.it.would.never.have.occurred.to.me. Shall.try.to.remind.myself.of.that.one.at.work.tomorrow. Such.a.new.concept.to.get.my.head.around. THANK-YOU-SO-MUCH-FOR-YOUR-POSTING Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 17:39:14 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: all Subject: the REAL thing Message: Nigel is Larkin? I HAVE been gone a long time. I thought Coke was the REAL thing. 150 emails and now a new premie site... I will never get out of the internet hole I'm in... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 18:08:31 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JF Subject: For the REAL thing Message: JF: The REAL(?) thing????? Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....ok...ok...ok... Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 12:41:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sorry, Enid, check out Val Message: Enid, what you wrote below was pretty funny and I was all about to tell you that. That is, at least, until I read the following entry on the premie page by Val Archer. This is where real life becomes funnier than any possible parody. I just had to post the whole thing. What do you think? 'Val Archer Tapes across the world Now a US resident, Val Archer was born in South Africa (we are waiting for the designers to put up the South African flag). Her attempts at rationalising her finances and some surprising results.She tells us how: |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 13:53:17 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry, Enid, check out Val Message: I just posted that last night down below. The guy's going bankrupt buying tapes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 14:47:40 (EDT)
From: enid Email: None To: Gail Subject: Sorry, Enid, check out Val Message: I can see that our standing orders will help Visions to budget better, and provide the funds for Maharaji's message to reach the 'poorest of the poor' communities. I know what it's like for them. Satire may require a touch of cruelty, but what Ol' Blossom Toes has done to this poor soul's brain is downright savage. On to chapter three... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 09:00:24 (EDT)
From: Enid Blighter Email: blighter@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Now read on... Message: Five Go To Premie Island. Chapter II - Big Plans (The story so far: 'The Shameless Five', Jonathan. Josie, Colin, Mark and their faithful waggy-tailed friend Timmy are in the garden shed planning their holidays. Their Uncle Quentin has relieved them all of household duties for the duration - even the AW Rota - up at his big cottage on the cliff, and as a special reward for 'having a great time enjoying their lives' has granted his rare blessing for a marvellous adventure to Premie Island. Now read on...) 'So what you doing now, Jose?' asked Colin, wiping the muesli bar crumbs from around his mouth. 'Actually brother,' said Josie in the sarcastic manner of one who has temporarily lost her inner focus, 'while you've been polishing off the last of our tuck, I have being embroidering this flag which we can raise on top of the old castle once we've made the crossing to Premie Island.' 'Ah yes, the old ruined castle...' said Jonathan, 'Didn't it belong to Lord Harlan the Milificent? Such a mystery what happened there... So what's going on the flag, Josie?' 'It's a drip, Jonathan'. (Josie was about to add 'like you, brother', but managed to find her still centre in the nick of time.) 'Ah yes the drip... the lake... the ripples' said Jonathan, dreamiliy, 'It's like, y'know... just so peaceful. Bypassing seafarers will instinctively understand and relate to where we're coming from... about our quest for the holy treasure and the blissful inner wisdom... I remember our American cousin who used to describe it so well when he said: It's just so beautiful to be able to experience within myself a beauty which is within and not external, that which is peaceful, beautiful and inside, this gift which is not outside, nor external, but is a place, a place which is a gift full of beauty and peace, within me. I cannot ever express, convey, transmute, relate, or indicate in words the beauty I experience and the gratitude I feel because such words do not exist that can convey or express the experience or the gratitude I feel to such a master. Because no matter what happens, there is still that experience because it is inside is this gift, and not external and is so beautiful.... He was referring to the thousand petalled lotus of ecstatic oblivion known only to those who make that effort and find that true connection to the hairy white hiss of nirvana over the hills and far away yet so near but nonetheless beyond the veil of tears that is the profound suffering of man through the ages...' Jonathan picked up his real wooden Beatles guitar and strummed it meaningfully. 'Mmm..mmm...mmm...mmm... Histories of ages past, unenlightened shadows cast. Down through all eternity the cryin' of humanity... It's then when the Hurdy Gurdy man comes singing songs of Lo-o-ove. Hurdy gurdy, hur dee hurdy gurdy, hurdy gurdy he sa-ha-hang. Here comes the roly-poly man, an' he's singin' songs of lo-o-ove... It's the roly poly roly poly roly poly...'' 'Enough of that warbling, brother, you're in your mind. C'mon, we've work to do...' Colin interrupted abruptly. (He had once been gang leader until Uncle Quentin unexpectedly abolished their gang, but he still knew how to play the part.) '...and we've important plans to make.' 'That's right, Colin.' said Jonathan, putting down his guitar, 'and such exiting plans. I can't believe our spiffing good luck.' 'You're so right. It's quite super!' enthused Mark. 'Woof!' said Timmy. 'And just so absolutley, unbelievably marvellous of Uncle Quentin!' said Josie 'But, don't forget, no more absolutely, unbelievably marvellous than he ever is.' cautioned Colin. 'But unbelievable all the same, surely?' said Josie. 'Ok, but no more unbelievable than one would expect.' corrected Colin. 'All right, bossyboots. But I only meant...' started Josie, but couldn't finish. The tears welled up as she pondered her infinite good fortune. Or maybe it was something else; she wasn't too sure. Colin continued: 'When carrying out Uncle Quentin's wishes, it shouldn't matter in the least whether we're off having exiting adventures or are doing something menial like, say, the AW Rota up at the cottage. It is all an unbelievable privilege...' 'That is so true...' sniffed Josie. 'I love the arse-wipe rota - though I haven't noticed you doing much of it, Colin. But to me it is such a joyful opportunity to show humility...' she added, perhaps a little unconvincingly. 'Correct.' Colin affirmed, 'Jonathan! what the hell so you think you're doing?' 'Hey! - cool it, man.' said Jonathan, inadvertently flicking cigarette ash on Josie's flag. 'Even Uncle Quentin smokes nowadays. It's cool, y'know.' 'Jonathan - put it out, you fool! Uncle Quentin is a grown up. Whatever he does is for good reason and is absolutely none of our business.' 'C'mon, back to the task in hand. Firstly, we've got to get out to the island'. Colin continued. 'That's easy. We can go in Uncle Uncle Quentin's rowing boat.' said Jonathan. 'But be warned...' he added, his voice falling again to a hushed whisper. The Shameless Five stopped what they were doing. There was trepidation in Jonathan's voice. 'Colin is right. This mission, this adventure involves going out there into the world, and you know that stretch of water we have to cross to reach the island...?' 'It's just the bay, isn't it?' Josie looked puzzled. 'They might call it the bay nowadays' whispered Jonathan, 'but it used to have another name...' 'I don't think, Jonathan, you should really be raking up the old days...' interrupted Colin. But Jonathan was into his stride. ''Twas known in times past as the River of Bondage to Maya! 'Gosh!' said Mark. 'Ooh!' oohed Josie, sarcastically. 'Sounds a bit pervy...' muttered Mark. 'Jonathan, you know Uncle Quentin doesn't like us...' 'But he loves us Colin' Jonathan blurted. 'Yes, yes, of course Uncle Quentin loves us, Jon - or respects us rather, but hear me out. I was just saying He doesn't like us talking about the really crazy old days when those of us who were around very nearly spoiled everything for him, by behaving so strangely. You know - locking ourselves away and making very strict rules for ourselves. A bit too much enthusiasm, and all that... Remember, we have to cool it - especially when we're out on Premie Island. 'Fuckwits!' woofed Timmy. 'Listen,' said Mark, 'Timmy's trying to tell us something.' 'Perhaps it's a message from Uncle Quentin.' 'Of course it isn't a message from UQ. That's just superstitious nonsense, and you know it' said Jonathan. 'Huh! That's great coming from an astrologer' muttered Josie. 'I think Timmy's worried about the River of Bondage to Maya,' said Mark, 'and so am I, to tell you the truth. What does it mean, Jonathan?' 'It means, quite simply, that anyone stepping out of Uncle Quentin's boat will end up drowning in the depths of the sea. But luckily, I am with you. I can read the stars, and they will guide us.' 'I heard Uncle Quentin saying the stars can't guide you.' Said Josie. 'And I heard he once consulted them for personal guidance' countered Jonathan, somewhat pompously. 'Don't forget,' Colin mediated, 'that Uncle Quentin knows what he's doing. We don't. Fortunately, we won't need Jonathan to safeguard our passage because as we cross the river of bondage to Maya, Uncle Quentin will be watching through his binoculars from the clifftops, and if we believe in him sincerely enough, he will rescue us from the very worst ravages of tempest and storm that might befall us...' 'And if we don't believe in him strongly enough?' Josie enquired, a little nervously. 'It's the Big Glug Glug, I'm afraid' The Shameless Five pondered Colin's words in their hearts, before Josie finally spoke: 'But Uncle Quentin can't swim...' 'Awooawooawooooooh' howled Timmy, a discreet, mocking smirk playing on his doggy lips. ****** (Will the Shameless Five reach Premie Island? Will Josie's faith stand the trials that await them? Will the Rotters come and besiege their island fortress? All will soon be revealed...) Ok, I'll scarper now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:17:43 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Enid Blighter Subject: Now read on... Message: Aw, do we have to go off to bed NOW?? Can't you read just one more page, pleeeeese? Thanks, Enid. And a great big WOOF! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 00:25:14 (EDT)
From: wm50 Email: None To: Everyone Subject: new web site Message: You should check out the new web site at www.enjoyinglife.org It has some pretty interesting items. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 00:30:02 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: wm50 Subject: new web site Message: Thanks, we have. Read the posts below, s'il vous plait. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 18:20:49 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: wm50 Subject: new web site Message: wm50: If I want to read fiction, I go to the bookstore and buy a book marked as such. I don't read fiction that is marked 'non-fiction.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 19:40:03 (EDT)
From: lee Email: None To: Everyone Subject: how to just say no Message: My music teacher, who I really like as a person and teacher, recently gave me an Intro tape. It sounded sort of familiar, so I checked the net and found this site (thankfully). Although I do practice some meditation (Shambala), this M cult is clearly nuts. But I'm really fond of my music teacher, have been for years, and don't want to offend him - any suggestions about how to play this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 19:48:50 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: lee Subject: how to just say no Message: Dear Lee, Sounds like you've known your music teacher for a long enough time to just say it isn't something you are interested in persuing and be respected for your feeling. I certainly wouldn't try debating the issue as that could just encourage him to harass you about it, leaving the impression you WANT to be convinced. I say to Jahovah's Witnesses just that I am not interested, I have my own beliefs, but don't even begin to share them as that is encouraging them also. Just a strong and steady, not interested. Kind of like being firm with a small child. Good luck. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 01:07:19 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Robyn Subject: how to just say no Message: I like Robyn's advice here. Figure that he will ask some questions about what you thought about it, so be prepared to give warm, friendly, SHORT answers before changing the subject. Jim's suggestions gave me the biggest grin, though. Not that he's at all funny, of course [snicker]. You might also offer to lend him a copy of the Lord Of The Universe video making its way around the web. Teat for tat, etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 20:23:05 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: lee Subject: how to just say no Message: Hi lee - It's been my impression that premies today only want to recruit aspirants that are REALLY interested and willing to do the work to follow it up. There's a guy where I work who brings M tapes and videos in to lend to people at work, and no one so far has been interested. It doesn't seem to hurt his feelings. What most people have said is something along the lines of 'I liked some of the things that Maharaji said, but I'm just not interested in pursuing it farther. No thanks.' If you WERE interested, it would take a six-month or more commitment to watch videos, then travel to a place where a knowledge session might be held, then lots and lots of questioning to make sure you were ready. And then you might get turned down, and have to wait again (if you've read the 'Aspirant' sections of this site, you are probably aware of this). Your music teacher probably knows the extent of the commitment required, and won't push it. Good luck. I know it's a difficult situation. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 22:50:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: how to just say no Message: Hey Lee, If I could enjoy a few moments vicariously through you, I'd love to ask your teacher a few things. Tell him you've learnt that there were in fact four brothers, that they all used to call each other the 'Holy Family' and that now two of the guys -- Prempal (Maharaji) and Satpal (Guru Maharaj Ji) -- try to hide each other's existence from their followers. Ask him if he doesn't think the whole thing's funny or what? That's for starters. Tell him you stumbled across a web site peopled by angry, disgruntled former followers who claim that Maharaji refuses to answer any questions from them, the press or anyone who isn't a fawning sycophant. Ask him if he doesn't think that's weird or what? There's a little more. Have fun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 04:50:35 (EDT)
From: Lee Email: None To: Jim,Robyn,Katie,Brian Subject: how to just say no Message: Thanks for advice, all. It's sure tempting to stir the beehive a bit (a la Jim), esp. after reading this site and the one at enjoyinglife. Plus I'm seriously curious about how this smart, talented, creative, together-seeming man stays hooked. He told me he's been in with M for 24 years, left once but came back. My competitive urge would come out for sure if we got into a debate, and then I'd never learn to play Brahms. If there was a chance long-term premies had any sense of humour about M, I'd do the 'thanks but not for me' but try to have a little exchange. He's the only cult follower I've ever known at all well (as far as I know) Best wishes all, Lee in Canada Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:06:31 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Lee Subject: how to just say no Message: 'Like.action.' Good. Try.making.a.comment.about,.Mr.Colostomy.Bag.that.most.people. would.find.reasonable,.but...... Examples:'he's.not.a.very.good.speaker,.rambles.a.bit.'-to-'he.comes.over.like.a.dodgy.used-car.salesman'. You're.almost.guaranteed.a.less.thought.out.and.honest.response. than.other.lines.of.approach. Also.found.that.if.you.want.to.change.topic, the.higher.level.of.piss-take.works.well,.'he's a.complete.embarrassment',.etc,.etc. Premies.or.pwicks.are.more.defensive/sensitive.around the.topic.of.Mr.C-B.,.than.they.are.around.knowledge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:31:32 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Lee Subject: how to just say no Message: Previous reply assumes you've been honest about being here or have already seen a video! Duh,.think.I.need.some.sleep! Any.comments.re.Mr.Slimebag.or.gurus.in.general.apply,.for.most. premies,.your.tone.(positive/negative,.gentle/aggressive,.naive/cynical).around.the.topic,.is.the.key.response.indicator. they're.looking.for. Before.going.further,'would.you.like.to.see.a.video?.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 13:28:22 (EDT)
From: Lee Email: None To: hamzen Subject: how to just say no Message: I did indeed see a short video called 'Introductory', not of the ones from the meetings that I've read about. Fellow sitting in a bland studio with a mike in front of him, talks. Cut to crowd scenes of indeterminate relevance. You're right, for the first 15 minutes my major thought was, this can't be a charismatic leader, he's quite boring, even incoherent at times. He picked up towards the end, though. I think the bottom line is, given the new video and old history, he just doesn't come across to me as someone to listen to more or know better. It's been an interesting week though, reading both sides of the M-web - curiosity about the world, especially the parts of it that don't make sense for me, is something I'd never want to lose, or have suppressed by any human or god.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 15:39:24 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Lee Subject: how to just say no Message: 'curiosity about the world, especially the parts of it that don't make sense for me, is something I'd never want to lose, or have suppressed by any human or god.' Very nicely put,Lee. Big.up.to.you.for.that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 17:11:33 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: lee Subject: how to just say no Message: Well Lee, I'd tell the music teacher 'anymore of these tapes and I'm yelling 'bad touch!' at the top of my lungs!!' That'll take care of it. Of course, it helps if you are about 13 years old. Otherwise, just tell him 'My Dark Lord will not allow me to give my allegiance to any other entity.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 09:50:08 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: how to just say no Message: Dear Mickey, YOU ARE SO FUNNY! I am talking to my mother and she thought my laughing out loud was VERY inappropriate! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 14:44:24 (EDT)
From: Student Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Master Message: So a Master is not necessary? Or you just don't want one? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 15:54:56 (EDT)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: 'So a Master is not necessary? Or you just don't want one?' Necessary for what? What would one want one for? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 16:38:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Master Message: Just as a meeting without eating is cheating, a master spells disaster. As soon as you surrender the reins of your life to another, (unless you're an infant) you have big trouble. I am responsible for my own life. I do not control the variables--no one does. All I can do is my best each day, accomplish the goals I can and enjoy myself as much as I can. Having MJ's goop in your head will not help your self-esteem nor will it help you to enjoy your life. Has it so far? How evolved have you become. (oops, there is no way to measure that is there) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 17:56:30 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: So a Master is not necessary? Or you just don't want one? I just don't want one. My mama used to always tell me, 'Son, everyone needs a master', but being stubborn, I always refused. My papa used to say, 'Boy, you's too stupid to do anything on yer own. You need a master.' I never listened though--always thought I was smart enough to be my own master. Finally, I saw the light and I got me a master named maharaji. Short, fat and stupid. I listened to this master and heeded his words. I fucked my life up good, spending most of my time sitting on my backside listening to other dummies talk about the master. At last, I got irritated by the dummies and realized how dumb I'd been to join a club with a dumb guy as the leader. So I fired my master. But I was worried because the master had said if I ever fired him, bad things would happen to me. But I thought, 'Bad things is already happening to me--I'm following you.' So I ditched the master and now I have big fun saying bad things about the master and waiting for something bad to happen. So far nothing too bad's happened, but master doesn't care too much--he's still spending the money I gave him. But his students is awfully pissed off because they have to watch boring speeches of master on the TV set, give him money, and pretend master makes them happy. Meanwhile, I is happy, swilling coffee and talking nice walks and just enjoying 'this life'. Fuck the master. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 18:13:36 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: So a Master is not necessary? Or you just don't want one? I don't think I need one, and I've decided I don't want one either. I learned this the hard way, through trial and error. What do you think you need a master for? How are you deficient that you find it necessary to have someone 'master' you? And if you decide you 'need' and 'want' a master, how would you select one from the selection of 'masters' that are out there on the market? Do you pick one up and thump each one like a watermelon to see if he's ripe? And if the master had a really shitty track record, like if he said he was going to bring peace to the entire world, but didn't, and has been a real failure at propogation of 'this knowledge' and has only been successful at accumulating obsecene wealth, if he cheats on his wife and takes drugs, if used to claim to be god, but doesn't anymore (at least not directly), and if he has a bunch of ex-followers who say he is a charlatan, and has, in fact, lost more followers than he ever had, wouldn't that disqualify that particular 'master' from consideration? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 19:23:38 (EDT)
From: Mc Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: It's been my experience that I learned everything at all useful from this master long ago (meditation techniques - which are available from a number of sources), long before I finally got fed up with all the premie bullshit and 'left the fold' but, hey, if you think there's still more to be had (good luck), it's your call. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 19:29:23 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Student Subject: Master of what? Message: Student: Master of what? Tell me, to which master do you refer? We've already found the master-of-deception: mahaCULTji. If that is the master to which you refer, then he's not necessary to my well-being nor do I want him. He could disappear from this planet TODAY and all I would do is dance on Zuma Beach (looking up at that ludicrous house on the hill!) 'nuf said! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 01:14:15 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Student Subject: Disaster Message: We're trying to discourage bb's deep-seated suspicions that you're actually Prempal Rawat. Please cooperate by not asking stoopid questions. And give me back my money. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 19:46:55 (EDT)
From: Gery Email: None To: Brian and Stoodent Subject: Disaster Message: And give me back my money. And I want my Fender guitar back. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 18:22:59 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Student Subject: define Master in your words Message: Why dont you define master. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:24:39 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: Student Subject: Mistress Message: So a Mistress is necessary? Or does the Master just want one? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 06:39:25 (EDT)
From: the.hamzter Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: 'So a Master is not necessary? Or you just don't want one?' But then I thought, maybe Student is into S&M? Don't.be.shy.student,.let.us.know,.are.you.a.dom.or.a.submissive? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 08, 1998 at 18:03:13 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi Email: None To: Student Subject: Master Message: I gots yer 'master' right here! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 12:49:14 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Guru Mariachi Subject: Oh, MY!!!!! Message: GM: Yes your divine 'protruberence,' what do you ask of me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 14:24:49 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi Email: None To: Mike Subject: What you must do.... Message: 'GM: Yes your divine 'protruberence,' what do you ask of me? ' Mike, as you may know, new versions of the twenty dollar bill have been released. What you must do is get rid of your old twenty dollar bills because they are cursed. Only your Guru Mariachi has the power and the will to accept and use these cursed bills. They will bring you great harm, so you must send them all to Guru Mariachi. You will work hard and get new twenties for your self, but any time you receive any of these cursed, old-style bills, you must send them straight to your Guru Mariachi. Only he can deal with this money. And you, whose name is not Mike, just for reading this private correspondence, you, too, must send Guru Mariachi your old-style twenties. Cough 'em up, mi amores!! Your Guru Mariachi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 18:14:50 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Guru Mariachi Subject: But...... Message: GM: But, your infinite a**holiness, can't you just 'bless' them so that I can use them in service to my family? You know, for things like food, daycare and rent? Oh my Guru Mariachi, forgive me if it sounds like I am doubting your never-ending wisdom, but I really could use them.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 19:18:34 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi Email: None To: Mike Subject: Apostate!!! Message: How can you doubt your Guru Mariachi's great love for you and yours? You are unable to understand the great karmic debt each of those cursed twenties carry! Only Guru Mariachi can handle such a burden; it is not possible for a mere unrealised soul like yourself (and anyone else reading this; remember, because you are reading this you, too, must send your twenties to Guru Mariachi) to deal with such immense karmah! Your little shoulders would collapse! Yet your Guru Mariachi, whose face is like many suns (not quite a thousand, but quite a few!) will relieve you of such a burden. Do the birds and flowers worry about the rent? Do the little crawling dung-beetles care about their next meal? No, it is right there, they push it about. Yes, you too can eat as little as a dung-beetle and enjoy life! That blessed devotee, JW, has already explained the joys of the raw vegetable and sunflower seed diet and how it makes you feel closer to the Great Void! The grass is free and all around you (well, except you Mike, living in the desert, but you shall have dessert!) and is eaten by sacred cows. Are you better than a cow? Of course not! So, eat the free grass and other things around you. Do not worry about tomorrow, except for the problem of getting rid of the cursed twenties, which your Guru Mariachi has agreed to take off your hands. Leave no room for change in your pockets! Guru Mariachi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 19:59:18 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Guru Mariachi Subject: Prostate?? Message: GM: Oh forgive me, My Guru Mariachi. YOU are right, I shall live as the humble dung-beetle. NO, I shall live lower than the dung-beetle, by your overflowing mercy and grace. I am not worthy of the title 'dung-beetle!' Since YOU are the LORD of Dung-Beetles, I cannot even count myself worthy of dung-beetle status for they supply a useful service while I do nothing of consequence at all! I shall send you ALL of my 20's, whether they be new or old, in solemn gratitude for that gift(?) you gave me. I shall live as free as the birds and flowers, so as not to be distracted by hunger, debt and a myriad of other illusions of this world. I shall never send my child to school; that wasteful organization that is awash in the corruption of maya and mind. I shall ensure that YOU ALWAYS eat from the fatted calf....oops, now I've done it.... Sorry, I shall ensure that you ALWAYS eat from the fatted mango. - BTW, my dear lard... I mean Lord, what has my 'prostate' go to do with anything???? Signed...your ever humble servant Mike Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 00:39:37 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi Email: None To: Mike Subject: Prostate?? Message: Wait, isn't 'prostate' english for pranam? Or is it that walnut thing that fresh doctor is always seaching for? Well, none the less, since you have seen the light and have decided to send me all of your twenties, you have returned to my good graces and can keep the new twenties like our original deal, and you wont have to be dung-beetle boy anymore; you have now been raised to horned-beetle status. Keep being a mindless devotee and you will be elevated to Johnpaulgeorgeandringo-beatle status, and will get to keep all the twenties, but you will be sending your Guru Mariachi all your fifties and hundreds, whether old or new. I leave you with this thought: who was unhappy when the Prodigal son returned? The fatted calf! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 11, 1998 at 08:48:09 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Guru Mariachi Subject: I Prostate at your feet... Message: GM: Oh my Guru Mariachi.... Thank you for allowing me to send ALL of my old and used 20's to you in humble gratitude for your obesity.....I mean gift! I will NEVER question your divine-will again......he he he (Until next time, anyway!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 14:14:11 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Painful Truth v. Pleasant Lie Message: I've been reading 'Recovering from Cults' by Michael Lagone (W.W. Norton), 1993, and I wanted to quote something that I think fits in line with what Gail has been saying lately, and what I remember feeling myself. Apparently, Conway and Siegelman, did studies of ex-cult members in 1982 and 1986. There were about 500 subjects in each group, and 11% were ex-premies, 'ex-members of Divine Light Mission.' The rest were mostly moonies, hare krishnas and ex-members of 'The Way.' Anyway here's a quote that I thought was very true: Clinical observations (Ash. 1985; Clark, 1979; Lagone, 1991) and research studies (Galanter, 1989; Lagone, 1991) suggest that people join cults during periods of stress or transition, when they are most open to what the group has to say...the majority appear to have been relatively normal individuals before joining the cult. Certain studies cited earlier found cultists to score within the normal range on psychological tests or psychiatric interviews. Galanter (1983) found some improvement in the general well-being of cult joiners, which he attributed to a psychobiologically grounded 'relief effect' of charismatic groups. Wright (1987) and Skonovd (1983) found that leaving cultic groups was very difficult because of the psychological pressure, a finding consistent with clinical observations. There is much evidence of psychological distress when people leave cultic groups. And yet the majority eventually leave. Why? If they were unhappy before they joined, became happier after they joined, were pressured to remain, left anyway, and were more distressed than ever after leaving, what could have impelled them to leave and to remain apart from the group? The inescapable conclusion is that the cult experience is not what it appears to be (at least for those groups that deem it important to put on a 'happy face'), either to undiscerning observers or to members under the psychological influence of the group. Clinical observers beginning with Clark (1979) and Singer (1979), appear to be correct in their contention that dissociative defenses help cultists adapt to the contradictory and intense demands of the cult. So long as members are not rebelling against the group's psychological controls, they can appear 'normal,' much as a person with multiple personality disorder can sometimes appear to be 'normal.' However, this normal-appearing personality, as West (1992) maintains, is a pseudopersonality. When cultists leave their groups, the flood gates open up and they suffer. But they don't generally return to the cult because the suffering they experience after leaving the cult is more genuine than the 'happiness' they experienced while in it. A painful truth is better than a pleasant lie. In my experience, the above is VERY true. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 15:15:50 (EDT)
From: RT Email: mm mm good To: JW Subject: Painful Truth v. Pleasant Lie Message: Thank you for that! It is true, I was better off and had a life before Knowledge, with much promise, and then subverted it due to peer pressures of the Pluto in Leo Generation and LOTU and reading too much Yogi Philosophy. On and on I could go, when I stop, only I know. (May 10, 1998) Thanks JW. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 18:45:38 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Amen... (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 19:43:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Yes, very true! Thanks JW(nt) Message: akfj;aoiuy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |