Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 25

From: Sep 26, 1998

To: Oct 13, 1998

Page: 4 Of: 5



Gail -:- K.I.S.S. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:03:56 (EDT)
__Katie -:- mama always used to say that.. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 21:06:02 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Where's larkin? -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:22:36 (EDT)
______Gail -:- Where's larkin? -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 18:37:29 (EDT)
________larkin -:- larkin's just lurkin! (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 19:42:23 (EDT)
______VP -:- Where's larkin? -:- Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 12:03:07 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Where's larkin? -:- Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:19:33 (EDT)

x -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:02:14 (EDT)
__Katie -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:36:26 (EDT)
____Joy -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:52:38 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Carol's e-mail -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:10:23 (EDT)
____Laura -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:27:31 (EDT)
______Katie -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:33:48 (EDT)
____x -:- Thanks Katie -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:58:20 (EDT)
____Mickey the Pharisee -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 16:36:44 (EDT)
______Katie -:- looking for L.O.T.U. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 18:05:19 (EDT)
______JW to Mickey -:- It's on It's Way -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:04:30 (EDT)
________Mickey the Pharisee -:- It's on It's Way -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:15:21 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- The eyes have it! -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:25:58 (EDT)

Enid -:- Five have fun on Premie... -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:04:38 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Hey, that's funny! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:14:55 (EDT)
____enid blighter -:- Hey, that's funny! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:27:12 (EDT)
__hamzter -:- It's.payoff.time.....it's -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:59:29 (EDT)

Sir David -:- Hi there Mr Glen -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:47:39 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Hi there Mr Glen -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:40:27 (EDT)
__Joy -:- Hi there Mr Glen -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:04:39 (EDT)
__JW -:- Hi there Mr Glen -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:34:22 (EDT)
____Sir D -:- Hi there Mr Glen -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 05:08:14 (EDT)
______JW -:- On the Subject of 'Grace' -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:56:20 (EDT)
________Joy -:- On the Subject of 'Grace' -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:33:27 (EDT)

Jim -:- Daily porno pics -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:41:29 (EDT)
__nigel -:- laughter was heard -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:11:41 (EDT)
__Anon -:- 'ne'er the twain shall meet' -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:01:35 (EDT)
____Sir D -:- Our Ron -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 07:32:16 (EDT)
____Runamok -:- 'ne'er the twain shall meet' -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:41:24 (EDT)
__VP -:- Life of Brian -:- Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 11:44:33 (EDT)
____nigel -:- they're MY juniper bushes -:- Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:13:13 (EDT)
______VP -:- they're MY juniper bushes -:- Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 21:01:31 (EDT)

Jim -:- Jim's Clipping Service -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:46:47 (EDT)
__bill -:- Jim's Clipping Service -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 18:20:24 (EDT)
__hamzen -:- Jim's Clipping Service -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:13:45 (EDT)
____Jim -:- No, but seriously, folks -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:43:34 (EDT)
______JW -:- No, but seriously, folks -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:56:44 (EDT)
________Gerry -:- It makes me want to ''SHOUT!'' -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 20:21:00 (EDT)
__________Gerry -:- Imagine... -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 21:32:52 (EDT)

Katie -:- Shit Disturbers -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:40:07 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Keith's latest -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:58:04 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Keith's latest -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:52:26 (EDT)
______Brian -:- Premie Openness -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:35:00 (EDT)
____Iola -:- Keith's latest -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:39:16 (EDT)
____david m -:- Keith's latest -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:05:01 (EDT)
____Keith -:- Keith's latest -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:05:29 (EDT)
__Mel Bourne -:- Stating the obvious -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:38:09 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Stating the obvious -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:53:46 (EDT)
______Sir D -:- Net wars -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:07:03 (EDT)
____Sir D -:- Stating the obvious -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:59:11 (EDT)
____hamzen -:- Stating the obvious -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:31:21 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Mel -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:03:22 (EDT)

z -:- YOU NAME IT -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:43:12 (EDT)
__Mona -:- YOU NAME IT -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:06:10 (EDT)
__bill -:- YOU NAME IT -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:58:11 (EDT)
____x -:- ominous post -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 04:01:20 (EDT)
______bill -:- ominous post -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:17:46 (EDT)
__Mike -:- YOU NAME IT -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:21:53 (EDT)

Gail -:- Premies: How detached are you? -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:40:49 (EDT)

Nigel -:- Thought for the day -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:19:09 (EDT)
__Anonomous# -:- Thought for the day -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:30:31 (EDT)
____nigel -:- Thought for the day -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:37:03 (EDT)
____Anonomousie -:- Thought for the day -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:36:19 (EDT)
____hamzen -:- Thought for the day -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:44:56 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- hamzen -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 02:13:46 (EDT)

A Non Premie -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:07:59 (EDT)
__Gerry -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:29:24 (EDT)
____Sister Mary Elephant -:- Another wonderful option! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:57:09 (EDT)
______A Non Premie -:- Another wonderful option! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:19:13 (EDT)
____A None Premie -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:11:56 (EDT)
______Mike -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:18:15 (EDT)
________hamzen.the.hamster -:- mmmmmmmmmmm.............. -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 17:23:14 (EDT)
__Anon#3 -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:56:53 (EDT)
____Jim -:- To Anon #3 -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:37:45 (EDT)
____John Hammond-Smyth -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:42:35 (EDT)
____A Non Premie -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:38:38 (EDT)
____hamzen -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:53:27 (EDT)
______RT -:- Great Post! -:- Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 13:28:00 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:06:11 (EDT)
____A Non Premie -:- The Opposite Effect! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:07:14 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Ha Ha Ha -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:34:35 (EDT)
____Anon#3 -:- Ha Ha Ha -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:21:22 (EDT)
______Sister Mary Elephant -:- Ha Ha Ha -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:32:40 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- Ha Ha Ha -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:45:48 (EDT)
______Mike -:- A hint -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:41:43 (EDT)
____A Non Premie -:- Ha Ha Ha -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 02:56:09 (EDT)

Charisma -:- Divine Lord -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 09:54:23 (EDT)
__Barnard -:- Divine Lord -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:22:00 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Divine Lord -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:18:52 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Divine Lord -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:16:46 (EDT)
____Jim -:- I'm on my way!!! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:48:31 (EDT)
______Sir D -:- I'm on my way!!! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:29:16 (EDT)
______Gail -:- You're right. I'm not happy -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 16:11:10 (EDT)
________Mike -:- You're right. I'm not happy -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:25:02 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- You're right! -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 16:57:27 (EDT)
______Runamok -:- where do you want to go today -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 00:51:04 (EDT)
__JW -:- Divine Lord of the Universe -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 16:01:48 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Divine Lord -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:06:54 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- Divine Lord -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 10:52:56 (EDT)
______Mike -:- Divine Lord -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:36:11 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Another question... -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 14:47:29 (EDT)

Anon -:- re: The 'Enjoying Life' site -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:32:39 (EDT)
__Anony -:- More Sites To Come!!! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 08:18:12 (EDT)
____bill -:- More Sites To Come!!! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:45:19 (EDT)
______RR -:- Time to close thiis site -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:35:41 (EDT)
________bb -:- death by 1000 superlatives -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:23:04 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Time to close thiis site -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 19:20:16 (EDT)
____HAMZEN.IN.BLISS -:- More Sites To Come!!! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:39:57 (EDT)
__bill -:- Good Ol' Anon -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:19:37 (EDT)
____Anon -:- Good Ol' Bill -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:10:41 (EDT)

Jim -:- Funnier than shit -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:34:52 (EDT)
__nigel -:- J & K: two peas in a pod! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:23:47 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Funnier than shit -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:35:35 (EDT)
__Mike -:- Funnier than shit -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:13:36 (EDT)

Nigel -:- Guru is as Guru does -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 20:13:16 (EDT)
__hamzen -:- Guru is as Guru does -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 20:54:07 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Read Nigel's post -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:19:36 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Guru is as Guru does -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:57:25 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Bye for now and thanks... -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:16:22 (EDT)
____hamzen -:- Bye for now and ........ -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:07:47 (EDT)
______nigel -:- Jeez, i never realised you -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:24:10 (EDT)
________hamzter -:- Jeez, i never realised you -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:22:34 (EDT)
____Katie -:- Not forever, I hope... -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 00:32:03 (EDT)
______x -:- Not forever, I hope... -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 04:13:23 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Bye for now and thanks... -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:26:08 (EDT)
______nigel -:- You're too kind. -:- Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:42:58 (EDT)

HOLY SHIT! -:- PREMIE SITE URL -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:14:18 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Very well done -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:28:47 (EDT)
__Mike -:- PREMIE SITE URL -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
____hamzen -:- PREMIE SHITE URL -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 23:21:11 (EDT)
______Mike -:- PREMIE SHITE URL -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:28:08 (EDT)
__Jim -:- will they publish my letter? -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:20:51 (EDT)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- PREMIE SITE URL -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 02:05:10 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Am I missing something? -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 03:06:20 (EDT)
______Sir D -:- Am I missing something? -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 05:50:52 (EDT)
________Mike -:- NO, you didn't -:- Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:53:36 (EDT)
__________jethro -:- rajnish says prempal is hansji -:- Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 01:03:18 (EDT)
____________Mike -:- See? -:- Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 10:43:59 (EDT)
____________Mike -:- A side-light -:- Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 11:54:19 (EDT)
____x -:- PREMIE GARBAGE -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 03:13:46 (EDT)
______Gail -:- PREMIE GARBAGE -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 18:57:37 (EDT)
__Anon -:- It's Not Real! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:25:13 (EDT)
____Anon -:- It's Not Real! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:35:59 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Katie or Brian - POlice! -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:53:07 (EDT)

Gail -:- Malibu Mole where are you? -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:47:16 (EDT)
__david m -:- Malibu Mole where are you? -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:07:58 (EDT)

Jim -:- Miami 1998 -- a review -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 16:34:04 (EDT)
__Mc -:- Miami 1998 -- a review -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 16:53:47 (EDT)
__hamzen -:- Ahhhh from the heart -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 17:02:33 (EDT)
__Mike -:- JIM! This is great -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 17:02:59 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Did he talk about the net in -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:02:06 (EDT)
____Gail -:- Did he talk about the net in -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:21:55 (EDT)
______Jim -:- No, I'm Jim, you're Gail -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:25:39 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Oh snore--I'll get on it. nt -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:28:37 (EDT)
__________hamzen -:- Jim&Gail -:- Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:24:13 (EDT)
____________Jerry -:- Jim&Gail -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:43:57 (EDT)
______________hamzen -:- Duh......lkdmcoikjemnvc -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:02:08 (EDT)
________________Katie -:- Try vacuuming -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:08:33 (EDT)
__________________hamzter -:- Try vacuuming -:- Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:47:25 (EDT)
____________________Katie -:- Try vacuuming -:- Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 00:20:07 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:03:56 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: K.I.S.S.
Message:
Keep it simple, stupid. This is one of MJs big messages. He always talks about how beautiful the people of Napal, Mauritius, and India are because they are simple and empty. He uses a lot more analogies there because they still work. Those folks still say Bhole Shri Sat Guru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai!

This allows him to fill them with his garbage.

Westerners come up for air every once in a while. MJ doesn't like that. Propagation is big in Africa and the above-mentioned places.

Those folks still say Bhole Shri Sat Guru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai! Sometimes the video editors don't quite remove them
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 21:06:02 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: mama always used to say that..
Message:
...because she was in AA! That's one of the many AA slogans, and I have noticed that M uses a few of them in his talks. Interesting - to me, anyway.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:22:36 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Where's larkin?
Message:
Katie: for some really dumb reason I'm thinking of an old song and I came up with a short lyric, but I'm not that good at it. I thought a parody was in order.... So, where's larkin when you need him? he he he. I think you'll remember the song from the lyric line:

Though they try every day,
to give their gold away...

Only by the size
of their wallets
may they approach him

OK, larkin.... take it away!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 18:37:29 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Where's larkin?
Message:
nuknuknuk!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 19:42:23 (EDT)
From: larkin
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: larkin's just lurkin! (nt)
Message:
nt. '=)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 12:03:07 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Where's larkin?
Message:
Isn't that the song 'Golden Way':

'We will try everyday
To walk your golden way
By your grace by your mercy
We approach you'

Or something like that.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 12:19:33 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Where's larkin?
Message:
VP: Yes, it was. I was trying to get lurkin' larkin to do a parody. I guess I wasn't able to 'convince' him to do it.... he he he.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:02:14 (EDT)
From: x
Email: x2000@goplay.com
To: Everyone
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
Hi everyone,
I really want to see the L.O.T.U. video everybody was talking about a couple months back. It sounds hilarious, and I could use a good laugh right now.
Is anyone willing to send me a tape to borrow, I will pay back any postage costs incurred and return the tape promptly.
Anyone interested in helping me see this classic premie comedy, can e-mail me to work out the details.

Thanks, x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:36:26 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: x
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
I have e-mailed x regarding lending him/her copy of L.O.T.U. Is anyone else interested in seeing this? I can try and get you a copy to borrow. For those who don't know, the video is a documentary of Soul Rush and the Millenium Festival (circa 1973); has interviews with aspirants, premies, Bal Bhagwan Ji, Rennie Davis, and even some ex-premies.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:52:38 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Katie
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
Hi Katie and X. I recently sent my copy of LOTU to Carol in Oregon, but after her I don't know where it goes. So maybe X could e-mail Carol at coopmtncarol@hotmail.com to see if she can send it to him/her next. It really is funny and worth a look, particularly if you were around then and went to the Millennium festival.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:10:23 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Carol's e-mail
Message:
Hi Joy -
Long time no see!
I wanted to correct Carol's e-mail address. She has a new one, and it is:
carolElaine@netscape.net

I will e-mail her and ask about the LOTU video. Thanks for letting us know.

Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:27:31 (EDT)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
I would like to see this video. How can I borrow a copy?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:33:48 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
Hi Laura -
I'm working on finding some copies that people are willing to lend - will get back to you.

Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:58:20 (EDT)
From: x
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks Katie
Message:
Katie,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I am going to e-mail you right now. I'm really looking forward to watching this classic docu-comedy!

Thanks, x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 16:36:44 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
I have been waiting to see L.O.T.U. for a while now and would really appreciate being put on the list! Thank you very much.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 18:05:19 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mickey, Laura, x
Subject: looking for L.O.T.U.
Message:
Hi everyone -
I am going to send my copy to x, who promises to send it back. Maybe he/she could send it to Laura or Mickey, or maybe I'll find one of those other copies floating around. Anyway, y'all are on the list now and I'll do my best to make sure you get a copy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:04:30 (EDT)
From: JW to Mickey
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: It's on It's Way
Message:
Mickey:

I have a copy of the LOTU video and it is in the mail today to you. Enjoy. I know you will.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:15:21 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Mickey to JW
Subject: It's on It's Way
Message:
Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for it (well, maybe I'll keep the eye in; it would make it difficult to watch the video otherwise). I am looking forward to looking backwards.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:25:58 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: The eyes have it!
Message:
MP: Unless you want to be a pirate, I would keep the parrot in the cage and leave your eyes where they belong..... arrrrr, this be sage advice matey, yur wud do well to heed it!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:04:38 (EDT)
From: Enid
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Five have fun on Premie...
Message:
Island.

The four of us, Mark, Josie, Jonathan and Colin, are having a great time living our lives

'So is it all arranged for our hols, Jonathon?'
'It certainly is, Colin' said Jonathon, I checked my almanacs. The signs are...'
Jonathon paused for effect.
'...auspicious'
'So you mean we're going to...?'
In spite of being the tomboy in the gang, Josie could barely contain her silly girlish excitement.
'Premie Island!!!' Mark ejaculated, not containing his excitement at all.
'Woof!' said Timmy.
'Did Aunt Fanny say we could have picnics whenever we liked?' enquired Jonathon, a little nervously.
'Well she's talked to Uncle Quentin about it, and they decided we're big enough and old enough to have lots of fun and super adventures on Premie Island as often as we like - provided we're always home by teatime.' said Colin, barely able to contain his swelling status in the group.
'Wow!' said Josie.
'Wow!' said Jonathon.
'Wow!' said Mark
'Fuckwits!' woofed Timmy.
'Will there be buried treasure?' asked Jonathon, now in a hushed whisper.
'You bet...' exclaimed Colin.
'Do you think we'll we be able to find it, though?' enquired Mark in tones of near-disbelief. He had grazed his shins on the wall of the old well-shaft the previous summer.
Colin glanced up nervously towards the door of the shed where the Shameless Five held their secret meetings.
'Yes!' he hissed. The treasure is buried deep. So deep and elusive is it that it's almost as if it doesn't really exist at all. In fact...'
'Go on...' giggled Josie, barely able to contain her post-feminist credibility.
'Go on...' urged Mark, having decided he better say something in case the others forgot he was there.
'The treasure is like a drip of water...' continued Colin, conspiratorially.
'Yer whaa.?', demanded Josie, forgetting for a moment that she wasn't actually a scouser.
'I said the treasure is like a drip of water...' Colin repeated so the full import of his message would not be lost.
'That's it!' shouted Jonathon, 'The treasure is like a drip of water buried deep in the ground. I understand now...'
'No, No! Shut up, Jonathon, will you please..?'
Such was the insistency in his voice that all eyes were now on Colin, as he continued his revelation: 'As I was saying, the treasure is like a drip of water falling on the still surface of a pond at twilight...'
A hushed silence fell upon the group.
'You mean...' gasped Jonathon, eventually.
'Could it really be...' squealed Josie hysterically.
'ah ha...'
Mark attempted a knowing wink.
'Yes. It really could be, Josie, if we wish it hard enough. Uncle Quentin said so.'
'We'll go with the drip of water then...'
'I'm sure Uncle Quentin won't mind...'
'Fuckwits!' woofed Timmy, happily
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:14:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Enid
Subject: Hey, that's funny!
Message:
Who are you? That's really funny? You're obviously English ('scouser'? What's that?). Keep going, please.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:27:12 (EDT)
From: enid blighter
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, that's funny!
Message:
Check the email adress. We have met before. 'Scouser' = person from Liverpool and is totaly irrelevant to story.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:59:29 (EDT)
From: hamzter
Email: None
To: Enid&Nigel&......
Subject: It's.payoff.time.....it's
Message:
I T ' S

P A R T Y

T I M E

:) :) :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index


Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:47:39 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Hi there Mr Glen
Message:
Interesting to read your account on the new premie site. Well I had to see what Glen Whittaker had to say, after all these years.

But Mr Glen, whatever happened to Mahatma Saphalanand (Brian Kitt) after the mid seventies. I never heard about him again.

Mr Glen; do you remember telling us one evening that Maharaji had told you that he could turn everybody in the world blue and make them float three feet off the ground if he wanted to? Do you remember? There were many things you told us about Maharaji. I was just nineteen at the time. You told us he was the Lord of the Universe. Hey, I believed you. After all, I came with a guiless heart and an open, young, mind. I was ready to be filled.

And Mr Glen, it was you who persuaded so many of us to move into the ashrams. You told us that it was what the Lord wanted us to do. And also, Mr Glen, when I was having a pretty bad time of things in one of the ashrams, it was you who told me to just accept eveything as Maharaji's prashad. The good and the bad.

I've got nothing against you, Mr Glen, I liked you and trusted your wise council. I really thought you had a handle on things, having spent so much time with the Lord. Remember the first edition of 'Divine Times'? The headline read, 'THE WEST GREETS THE LORD' I remember it well as if it was yesterday. You gave some inspiring satsang that evening when it first came off the press. We had a good laugh about the look on the printer's face when he saw that headline.

So what happened to the Lord, Mr Glen? Where did he go and why hasn't he turned everyone blue and made them float three feet off the ground, or something? I really would like to know how you can still be following Maharaji, after all this time and after all the things you said back then. It is definitely beyond my understanding.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:40:27 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Hi there Mr Glen
Message:
Supercalifragilisticexpialidoshus!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:04:39 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Glen Whittaker
Subject: Hi there Mr Glen
Message:
Hi there, Glen, this is your ex-secretary from 1973 Joy here, just wanted to say hi and say I saw your entry on the premie site. I, too, would be curious to know whatever happened to Saph, David Thorpe, and that blissful fellow Mahatma Ashokanand. (Disappeared back to the wilds of India never to be heard from again, was a rumour I heard.) Anyhow, don't know if you ever peek over here at the ex- site, but I've been an 'ex' since 1981, though still like to keep in touch with my premie friends when I can (Kay, Jean Lock, etc.)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:34:22 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Hi there Mr Glen
Message:
Excellent post, David. Isn't it infuriating that premies can be so selective in what they choose to disclose/remember? I'm not sure if it's what the premies are actually saying, or if it's due tp heavy editing by the people running the site. Either way, an awful lot is NOT being said. At that website, they obviously want to avoid saying too much. Unfortunately for them, that means just an endless stream or vague, somewhat incoherent comments about how beautiful and wonderful 'it' is. This will not hold anyone's attention and just be seen as so much drivel. Just like Maharaji.

I also wonder what happens as more of the REAL premies, not the PC, thoroughly modern premies, unschooled in the new premie-speak, are submitting comments. What about when they mention kissing his feet, buying/working on his luxury planes, working on his lavish 'residence,' and seeing all the 'miracles' he as performed, since he really is god, devotion and surrender? Will they print that stuff? Will they only print the vague 'it's so beautiful' generalizations?

By the way, do you think Glen is saying that it was a miracle that they got Air India to let them chartera 747? Isn't that what he is implying in his 'remembrance?'

BTW -- Katie and others who said I was wrong, Glen concurs with me that Suzie Bai Whitten, was, indeed, 'very plump' just like I remembered. So there!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 05:08:14 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: JW
Subject: Hi there Mr Glen
Message:
I no doubt think that Glen would say it was grace which enabled them to charter the flight. The word 'grace' is the usual word which was always used to cover a wide variety of happenings. I'd say it was just the airline wanting to make some money.

By the way, my calling Glen Whittaker, Mr Glen, is going back to the name that teenage Maharaji used to call him by. Glen was responsible for much of the thought processes amongst premies. He was Maharaji's mouthpiece here in England in the seventies. Certainly up to around 1977 when he got married. He used to often lay it on very thick and could give very heavy satsang when he was in the mood. He used to imply that people who weren't in ashrams were wasting their time. I had a soft spot for the old boy and probably still would have if I still knew him. He had flashes of brilliant humour and was charismatic in a schoolteacher kind of way.

Such people who engender love and loyalty in people are responsible for affecting the lives of many premies. I am disappointed that Glen still toes the party line and doesn't admit to what really happened. He was physically close to Maharaji for a long time and could have been more of an asset to the old ex-premies if he'd spilled the beans.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:56:20 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Sir D
Subject: On the Subject of 'Grace'
Message:
Yes, I'm sure he would say that it was 'grace' that got the airline to allow the charter. I just got a book entitled 'Recovering from Cults,' which is a compilation of essays by various experts in the field. Last night I read a section that talked about the programming in cults that causes people to 'spiritulalize' everything, and this is also known as 'miracle thinking.' To premies, this kind of programming results in references to 'grace.'

So, whenever something good happens, especially when something coincidental or unexpectedly pleasant happens, it is always characterized as 'grace.' It becomes automatic, and it's very hard for people programmed that way to see otherwise -- Even if you remind them that good things, coincidental things, unexpectedly pleasant things, happen all the time to everybody, whether they have ever heard of Maharaji or not.

It's all part of Maharaji's insidious attempts to get people to attribute all the good things in their lives to HIM, and all the bad things to themselves, or to 'the world' or to 'the mind.' All the disasters around Maharaji, like his drinking and infidelity, failures of programs like Millennium, pedophile mahatmas, utter failures in doing what he said he would do, like bringing peace to the world, and all the rest, are overlooked as something other than 'grace' or maybe 'grace' that we, with out limited understanding, cannot see. It's pervasive in all cults, and this was especially true, and apparently still is, in Maharaji's cult.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:33:27 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: On the Subject of 'Grace'
Message:
Joe, can you tell us a little more about this book, Recovering from Cults? Who is the author? Sounds interesting, I might like to try and get it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:41:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Daily porno pics
Message:
Here's some funny stuff from the new premie site.

First, from our dear Mili's bio:

I don't consider myself to be special, other than that I've always wanted to get to the bottom of things and was never satisfied with opinions which substituted for truth. Credit for any courage and self-confidence in this respect must necessarily go to my dear parents.

I know, you'd have had to be there but, if you were, nothing could be funnier. Except this, maybe:

There is a beautiful song by Sting (ex-Police) - the words to it go: 'If you love somebody, if you love someone, set them free.' That is exactly what my master has done for me. His Knowledge has brought me wonderful experiences! Never was there any fee asked for it, or any other form of obligation. I didn't have to renounce ANYTHING in life. Honestly, after all this years, one thing stands out clearly to me: my master is not out to get my blind worship, or my money.

Then, some other premie, Jan somethingorother, who falls over backwards to interpret the master's every whim and gesture. Life of Brian anyone?:

Another time I gave him a small bell bowl. When I first rang it, I thought to myself that this was the sound that could ring out through eternity and wake people up. Later someone came up and asked if I had given him the bell. I replied in the affirmative and she said: 'Well, he put it in the freezer.'

This really got my curiosity peaked and I went out to see if I could find him and he was standing just a few feet from where I emerged. I went up to him and simply asked: 'Why did you put the bell in the freezer?' He replied: 'To preserve it.'

Fine, that made perfect sense.


Here's some guy settling the cosmic question:

Knowledge is not mystical, spiritual, weird or anything alien to us as humans; it is a simple practical way to contact your inner self.

Here's a guy who definitely didn't see the same video (Miami, '98) that I just did:

I often feel that learning from Maharaji is like having Einstein as your physics tutor, or Chopin or Bach coming to your house to teach you piano. Their mastery of the subject is undeniable. Their immersion in its pleasure is wonderful and contagious. For me Maharaji is a caring professor whose commitment to me is far beyond question. And like a master comedian he's able to shed light on the obvious in ways I hadn't seen it before. Spend some time with him and pretty soon you wish he lived in your house and you could hang out with him forever.

Here's someone named Mark somethingorother, one of the site founders, who claims to love words:

In the early 70's, hundreds of us embraced this rigorous spiritual lifestyle. I became involved in producing publications. We were totally energised to start with, but after a year or so there seemed to be a mismatch. We were forcing things: we were not suited to the lifestyle we had adopted and I started to feel what we printed was not always really representing the teachings of Maharaji properly. It was never his role to counsel anyone about lifestyle or career, nor was it anyone else's either.

He never seemed for a moment to shirk any responsibility.


Then this other guy makes the point that:

His simple and direct replies were the ones that I had wanted to hear from someone for a long time.

Where have I been?

Then there's this chick:

I received Knowledge five years ago and was listening to Maharaji for three years before that. It took three years for me to be absolutely sure that Knowledge was for me mainly because of my reluctance to trust and my certainty that inevitably everything has some flaw or catch. However unlike most things in life, there is no catch, that is unless you consider choosing to really experience what it means to be alive a catch.

I liked what Maharaji stood for because there were no controls, no lifestyle rules, no laid down codes of behaviour. Still, I took the time and along the way met many people with Knowledge, some of whom wanted to make Knowledge a religion, some of whom were truly disturbed individuals but most of whom were pretty grounded people who just accept and embrace
Knowledge for what it is.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:11:41 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: laughter was heard
Message:
right across the Mersey.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:01:35 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'ne'er the twain shall meet'
Message:
I was waiting for this from you Jim. I knew you'd be on the case soon. I read the whole 'Enjoy' site last night. It's all very fine all these people proclaiming what a success Maharaji and Knowledge has been for them, but what about those who fell foul of the system?? No mention of course. (except a vague reference from Ron Greaves, another eccentric old-timer, that Maharaji has said 'if you don't like it..WALK) Walk?? That's a bit tough after surrendering the reins of your life for your entire youth isn't it?

Have you noticed how all these contributors are incredibly keen to point out what great successes they've been in the World, in their little testimonies. That is ironic since so many premies are obviously handicapped as a result of their priorities and beliefs. One UK bloke proudly gave a little plug for his Artwork award and the 'SUCCESSFUL' Science Writer proclaimed how her lonely quiet life nurturing Knowledge above all suited her.Do you think we should all boost our credibility a bit by bragging about how successful our careers have become since leaving the fold? It's very telling how premies are so immoderately keen to advertise their normality as social creatures, when actually their grins look rather more stupid than they care to think.

It slightly gave me the creeps reading all this since I found a lot of the 'good old times' that these people reminisced about, very oppressive and uncomfortable when I was there. So they loved all the madness and thrived on it..or even survived it ..lucky them.
It really is an eye-opener to see these sort of confessions so publically broadcast again. It is high time that there was some addressing of the other side of the coin by these folks, rather than this 'Walk'='F... Off and leave us alone, if you had a hard time' attitude.
The apparently blissfull expressions of contentment conceal a much heavier, restricted attitude underneath, which is often selfish and unkind.
People accuse this site of harbouring extremely hurt negative people etc. (as if all hurt folks should just shut up and accept their past abuses lying down). We know that isn't about to happen. I see this site as a good balance to the other one, but it's a shame that 'ne'er the twain shall meet'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 07:32:16 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Anon
Subject: Our Ron
Message:
Hey, did Ron Greaves ever tell you the story of how he was lying ill with dysentry in India and Maharaji told him to leave his sickness in his blankets and go and have a curry with him? I only heard it about 80 times, like every time dear Ron gave us satsang. I haven't viewed much of the premie site yet but I do hope that Ron includes this little anecdote for us all to enjoy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:41:24 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: 'ne'er the twain shall meet'
Message:
I notice premies and people on the fence telling us about their good works and heroic efforts in something of a defensive gesture.. It's a strong pattern. Ron Sherwood told us about defending an innocent person from a large knife-wielding attacker and others have proclaimed their life long social service.

Exes, on the other hand, are more likely to describe the loss of a good education from following a cult, and sometimes the gain of it after leaving.

We don't seem to have as much to prove. The premies seem to arrive at personal worth as the issue- which seems to be based on guilt.

The biggest difference is, of course, is our free-for-all and argumentative style compared to their saccharine-sweetness.

The BM quotes on this forum or the premies posting on their new site make me laugh. But I do wonder at exes getting overly hungup on it. It's a curiosity.. but face it, it's a lie and a bore and ultimately not worthy of too much attention.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 11:44:33 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Life of Brian
Message:
Jim,
We just rented that movie the other night. Hadn't seen it in a while. It was still hilarious.

This stuff by Jan does remind me of the bit where Brians 'followers' (literally) are trying to figure out the significance of his shoe!! Ha ha! You called that one right.

My favorite part of that movie is where the Roman soldiers come into the home where Brian's group is holding a secret meeting. I love it when they show the guys hiding. One guy leans his head over into a basket. Then a dozen or more soldiers run into the room, but never see anyone. When they come back to search a third time, one of the guys yells out, 'Hey, you didn't give us enough time to hide!'

What a great flick.

Don't you find Brian to be a much more lovable and reluctant master than Maharaji, though?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 20:13:13 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: VP
Subject: they're MY juniper bushes
Message:
Don't you find Brian to be a much more lovable and reluctant master than Maharaji, though?

Just what is the opposite of 'reluctant', I wonder? As to lovable, well... :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Oct 06, 1998 at 21:01:31 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: they're MY juniper bushes
Message:
Brian: 'What I really want you to do is FUCK OFF!'
Believers: 'Just how should we fuck off, Master?'

Just what is the opposite of 'reluctant', I wonder?

How about 'willing'? :)
VP
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:46:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jim's Clipping Service
Message:
Okay, let's have some fun! They didn't post my letter on the new premie site -- :( -- but they did post a certain Brian M.'s and one from the now-non-affliiated idiot, Keith. They also posted some words of wisdom offered by various premies. Here, in direct contravention to Maharaji's own words ('seeds are dead') is one submission I read:

Giuseppe M. Buffa
Palermo, Italy

Seeds

'A seed can never die...'


Someone posted one of Maharaji's too:

'When you breathe, don't think of it as air. Think of it as the ultimate gift that a human being can be given. Understand the pleasure, the joy to be. And understand the pleasure - the pleasure of the joy to be content. Understand, accept - with humility... each breath that comes into you.'

Ah, the land of childish make-believe! Has anyone ever seen someone die here? I did. Just once. It was my father and I watched him struggle for his every last breath. If there's some force giving this 'ultimate gift' it sure seemed indifferent, if not downright cruel, those last few moments.

Really, this is medeival. Bill might fall for this stupidity but no one understanding the least bit about biology (sorry, Bill) has any excuse for buying this stupidity. History is replete with supersitious cultures who have worshipped breath, the blood, semen, rain, sunshine and eclipses. Fortunately, Maharaji wasn't born albino. Think of the hay he'd make with that. Perhaps the guy deserves a little credit for not mythologizing fat cells.

'Your fat cells are that great giver's way of hugging you, keeping you warm, making you cuddly and safe. Don't call them fat cells, call them packets of stored love. Yeah, that's the ticket!'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 18:20:24 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim's Clipping Service
Message:
Hey, you were smart enough to leave in the 80's,
I was genius enough to remain stuck till 98.
So perhaps there is some residual goop.
But, here I am on the enemy website learning
all the time.
Hamzen made a smart point about crimes against
humanity.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:13:45 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim's Clipping Service
Message:
Way to go, sunshine!

You get my vote.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:43:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: No, but seriously, folks
Message:
Really, I have to ask you what IS the difference between worshipping Maharaji and Kim Il Jung? I mean, no one can tell me that they don't look remarkably alike. We all know that. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about stuff like this:

It never ceases to amaze me what an entertaining, intelligent and inspiring speaker Maharaji is, nor how consistently, time and again, he can make his message fresh, full of new insights into the human condition, and something that is such an immense pleasure to listen to. If ever proof were needed what a wellspring of joy and inspiration Knowledge is, then Maharaji himself is surely it.

or stuff like this:

There is no way I can ever repay him for this gift of being able to go within and experience a beauty and peace inside myself which is not dependent on anything external.

I cannot thank him in words. The words are not made which can adequately express or convey the feelings I have towards him. Grateful doesn't even come close.

I can only count myself among the very, very lucky ones who are fortunate to know such a teacher.


I mean why doesn't this girl just offer him a blowjob or something? SOMETHING to settle this account or at least chip away at the interest at least. Maybe call in the IMF. I don't know.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 15:56:44 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, but seriously, folks
Message:
Oh...my...god, Becky, just look at her....butt, I mean it's so BIG...!

Sorry. Isn't it weird when premies start using flowering words that don't say anything? At least she didn't say within, inside.

Let's see what can I say, I think I remember how to talk like that:

It's just so beautiful to be able to experience within myself a beauty which is within and not external, that which is peaceful, beautiful and inside, this gift which is not outside, nor external, but is a place, a place which is a gift full of beauty and peace, within me. I cannot ever express, convey, transmute, relate, or indicate in words the beauty I experience and the gratitude I feel because such words do not exist that can convey or express the experience or the gratitude I feel to such a master. Because no matter what happens, there is still that experience because it is inside is this gift, and not external and is so beautiful. Jai Satchitanand!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 20:21:00 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: It makes me want to ''SHOUT!''
Message:
I am rivetted by his words. His genius for approaching a single subject with an immense array of perspectives and animating his expressions in a precise and pertinent way is a source of great personal pleasure and makes me want to shout! His words do bring light. Just about everything he says can be put to use in life. (Emphasis added)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 21:32:52 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Imagine...
Message:
the brain that thinks this: I am rivetted by his words.

His genius (ha ha ha) for approaching a single subject with an immense array of perspectives

Oh really? How many perspectives can a guru chuck, if a guru could chuck up?

and animating his expressions in a precise and pertinent way

I too secretly indulge in animating my expressions precisely...sometimes, too, I think...

is a source of great personal pleasure
Gives me a boner, too.

and makes me want to shout! His words do bring light. Just about everything he says can be put to use in life. Amen, brother, amen.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:40:07 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Shit Disturbers
Message:
There have been one or two shit-disturbers on the site this morning who are using other people's names, using multiple pseudonyms, and generally being obnoxious. For those who don't know, or can't read, the rule is DON'T USE SOMEONE ELSE'S NAME. You may think it's cute to answer your own posts, or to pretend to be an aspirant who's turned off by this site, or to pretend that you're someone who already posts on here, but I don't.

If anyone is getting their name usurped, or feels like a post is not legitimate, please e-mail me or Brian (brian@ex-premie.org).

Katie

By the way, z is mona is charisma is 'a practicing devotee' is anon#3, and probably several others as well.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:58:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Keith's latest
Message:
Like I said, I'm into cross-pollination. On the new premie forum Keith mentioned how he supports Maharaji's work. That, if nothing else, should give some premies there pause to think. But here's Keith's latest from both the old premie site and the sissy forum:

'I now am beginning to gain a perspective that is an outgrowth of many insights over many months.
There is a historical convention ; an ingrained social-cutural convention , that is based on a hierarchial model
of relationship and organisation. Royality is a prime example. But this model actually , in one form or another , permeates every part of our global-human behavior.
The basic structure of this 'model' is a combination of hierarchy and authority. Authority is exercised in various degrees depending on where in the hierarchial pyramid one belongs. The Indian caste system was an example of this in a broad sweeping way. And the class divisions within capatalistic nations is another example. Parental authority
is an example that we almost take for granted , but essentially it is based on the same bedrock of principles.
The principle of power relations is embedded into this.
It is an imposed pecking order. A sophisticated type of order that has its biological counterpart in the animal and plant kingdoms.
It is a historical archetype that has driven social, political, educational, religious, family and almost every other interaction that humanity has known. But , I feel we are now in the midst of a transformational and evolutional shift. This historical paradigm is being increasingly challenged by an emerging new paradigm of reality. The keynote of this emerging new archetype is a type of real freedom from the dominance of these old power relations.
It is the birth of an evolved , more aware , independent individual who at the same time is more attuned with collective, global and cosmic realities. As this emerging
post-historic human becomes more the norm , rather than the minority it has been , the more this shift in consciousness will express through and within our sociatal, cultural, educational, political and spiritual constructs .
I feel as a humanity we are not yet quite ready for this shift as a species. And therefore many people need transitional means to move from the old to the new. People like Maharaji are providing transitional bridges for those who need them. But this is happening on a wide front. There are many pioneers seemingly working separately. But it really is a type of fragmented movement ; a silent conspiracy; the transitional phase that heralds a new dawn;
and many great and wonderous changes will be witnessed by our own generations in our times. This has already begun and is obvious for those who are a little awake and alert.
As a small additional example of such change any new possibility of dialogue between the worlds people is to be welcomed. Therefore I also welcome the new premie site.
Let the debate continue!'

Yes, let the debate continue.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:52:26 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Keith's latest
Message:
On the new premie forum Keith mentioned how he supports Maharaji's work. That, if nothing else, should give some premies there pause to think.

Jim, I was beginning to wonder if you'd lost your sense of humor, but the above made me spit my soda all over my keyboard (you owe me...what a mess!). Also 'I'm on my way!' was so funny that I couldn't delete the bogus posts above it because that would have deleted it too.

Thanks,
Katie

P.S. Let's have your letter here, if they won't print it on the premie site. Plus, I don't know if you noticed, but they have already deleted Brian's message of congratulations. I guess they're reading your posts.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:35:00 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Katie
Subject: Premie Openness
Message:
Plus, I don't know if you noticed, but they have already deleted Brian's message of congratulations. I guess they're reading your posts.

I'm sorry to see that. It was a heartfelt congratulations, but evidently not from anyone that approved by those who have so benefitted from Maharaji's love. How truly sad...

Since I included my full name and email address it should have counted for something, but I guess not. I wish them luck with their site and hope that premies who pass muster derive a personal benefit from its existence. And I'm glad to leave the whole bullshit cult behind me.

All you need is love. And approval, of course.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:39:16 (EDT)
From: Iola
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Keith's latest
Message:
Keith needs to quit writing on forums and take English 020. If he took the class he might find out what he means and how to project his concepts on paper so that other people will know what he means.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:05:01 (EDT)
From: david m
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Keith's latest
Message:
hey everybody.....

What really is my old guru's clame to fame. Did he establish peace on earth even though all of the old followers..... busted their butts to try to do that...Has he help clean up the enviorment or tried to make this planet a little better place than what we found..believe me the only thing he has done is to get some good cash and resources ..land ....jewles... art... you name it he' got it..so claim all you want you premies or are you aloud to be that any more...jai sat chit ananda...dave
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:05:29 (EDT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Keith's latest
Message:
Wonders never cease . Jim is now representing me here .
Thankyou . All help is appreciated !!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:38:09 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Stating the obvious
Message:
Hi Katie

I think that you will find that this site will probably be subjected to more of these kind of attacks from now on.

It seems quite obvious that premies will feel more empowered with the new site coming on line (obviously with M's tacit approval), and this may embolden them to harrass this site.

Despite views to the contrary, premies are intelligent and resourceful people, and if they feel that this site opposes M, I'm sure thay could attack it and destroy it without an ounce of conscience or remorse.

With only you and Brian guarding the gates, it's would be comparatively easy to swamp the place with spurious posts mimicing exes and causing heaps of confusion and there is very little that you could realistically DO to prevent it.

Then again, they may think that it would be a complete waste of time. Who knows? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway, things certainly seem to be livening up.

Regards

Mel
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:53:46 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Stating the obvious
Message:
Dear Mel -
You wrote:
Despite views to the contrary, premies are intelligent and resourceful people, and if they feel that this site opposes M, I'm sure thay could attack it and destroy it without an ounce of conscience or remorse.

I appreciate what you say, but this kind of thing has happened before, and it wasn't a premie who did it. I have no idea if a premie is doing it now. There are people (shit-disturbers), who just enjoy disrupting public forums, chat rooms, and the like.

I suppose that premies COULD screw up this forum if they wanted to, or if they had orders from EV, but it hasn't happened so far. I've actually found that almost all the premies who have posted here regularly were really good about using one name and acting like adults. Also, the premies I know personally are intelligent and resourceful enough to realize that if it appears M can't stand a little heat, then he's going to look bogus. (IMHO, anyway.) Plus, believe it or not, most of the premies that I know are nice people.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:07:03 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Katie
Subject: Net wars
Message:
Katie; when I used to run the premie forum there were a few people who tried to ruin it by posting under other people's names. I found the best way to stop it was to be totally ruthless and block them immediately. There was no point in discussing it with them. After I'd blocked a few, it never happened again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 14:59:11 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Net wars
Subject: Stating the obvious
Message:
If all these premies can do is attack this forum by mimicing the participants, then it shows a clear LACK of intellegence, in my book. A lack of maturity too.

It is very easy to block people from reading or writing to the site. I suggest that people remember this before they attempt to send false posts under other people's names.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:31:21 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Stating the obvious
Message:
'and this.may embolden them to harrass this site.'

From.my.understanding,.it's.also.not.too.difficult.to.attach.
embedded.worms.and.virii.to.e-mails/forum.postings..

The.premie.community.can't.remain.techno-phobic.luddites
for.ever..
Am.I.being.paranoid?

By.the.way,.this.danger.of.easy.exposure.was.one.of.the.reasons.I.started.posting.under.a.pseudonym.

When.this.site.really.starts.to.bite......

Way.too.paranoid??

As.my.gran.used.to.say,.it.helps.to.be.prepared.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:03:22 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Mel
Message:
Mel: I think you might be overstating the 'destruction' part a bit, but it is a valid point nonetheless. The one thing they don't realize is that free-speech reigns and that anything they do can be undone. As to the 'posting under different names' game, well I think we have a pretty good idea about each of our regular poster's personalities. If someone posts something under my name, for example, that is contrary to what everyone here knows about me, then it's probably a 'shit-stirrer' and nothing more. I guess we will have to use that measuring stick for a while. Since they (premies) don't have personalities and can't explain their feelings or positions clearly, because they can't think, it should be fairly easy to determine a 'stirrer.' It could actually be funny.... don't you think?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:43:12 (EDT)
From: z
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: YOU NAME IT
Message:
As you can see it would be very easy to disrupt this website. Stay tuned there will be a few more 'tricks' in the near future that I am sure you won't like as well..........
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:06:10 (EDT)
From: Mona
Email: None
To: z
Subject: YOU NAME IT
Message:
If you're doing this then you're a coward. Don't scew with our website.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:58:11 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: z
Subject: YOU NAME IT
Message:
You cant disrupt us, we are smart enough to bypass your
useless sentences.

By the way, do you think this forum is all you have to worry
about?

Guess again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 04:01:20 (EDT)
From: x
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: ominous post
Message:
Bill,
Your post sounds pretty ominous, care to elaborate?
What else do the premies have to worry about?, besides wasting their time, money, and energy on a greedy mindwarping cult.

just curious, x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:17:46 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: x
Subject: ominous post
Message:
Sorry, X,
this forum is too watched.
Ominous no, bold yes.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:21:53 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: z
Subject: YOU NAME IT
Message:
z: You really are a blowhard, aren't you?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:40:49 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies: How detached are you?
Message:
I used to watch people practising their disciplines and detachments with great wonder. I remember this one man and women who were desperately in love, but they lived in the ashram. To solve the problem, the woman put in for a transfer. If it had been me, I would have had my way with him.

Really though, how detached are we? You can always bite off your nose to spite your face, but is it worth it.

MJ said that the premies were still of the world. 'You can't see it because your immersed in it.' Like he's not. It's a pretty bad scene when your mistress is coming to your house for a visit, and your wife has to head her off at the pass. HE CAN'T QUIT SPENDING YOUR DONATIONS, SMOKING, DRINKING AND DOING THE NASTY WITH HIS MISTRESS. HE CAN'T START MEDITATING.

WHY ARE YOU MAKING ALL THE DRIVING EFFORT. May I suggest you do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:19:09 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thought for the day
Message:
'There is an ease with which people can come to believe whatever is convenient to believe, however ludicrous it may be.'

(Chomsky)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:30:31 (EDT)
From: Anonomous#
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Thought for the day
Message:
There is an ease with which people can come to denial of whatever is convenient to reject, however ludicrous it may be.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:37:03 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Anonomous#
Subject: Thought for the day
Message:
So what it is so ludicrous for us to deny? Tell us please, O wise one who cowers behind anonymity? (and can't even spell it)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:36:19 (EDT)
From: Anonomousie
Email: None
To: Anonomous#
Subject: Thought for the day
Message:
Oh My!
Someone with a name similar to mine.
Poor Dear.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:44:56 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Anonomous#
Subject: Thought for the day
Message:
'There is an ease with which people can come to denial of whatever is convenient to reject, however ludicrous it may be.'

You.mean.like.using.your.brain,.thinking.for.yourself,.and.living.in.the.real.world.?

Yours.in.his.grace
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 02:13:46 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: hamzen
Subject: hamzen
Message:
Dear Hamzen,
I just have to tell you that I love your inginuity to overcome your broken space bar! See if you were still a devotee you wouldn't have been able to use your mind and your posts would be so hard to read. :), =) that is the latest one from my niece!
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:07:59 (EDT)
From: A Non Premie
Email: nohatemail@nowhere.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
Hi All,

I have been lurking here for more than a month now.

As a non-premie, hovering on the brink, I cannot comment on much on this forum... but...

Do you realise that the attitudes, foul language, hatred, petty comments about spelling, petty comments about M's physical appearance, character assassination of posters and other behaviour exhibited by many (not all) of the 'exes' on this forum lately... is, in fact.... sending me more towards pursuing Knowledge than away from it?

I read this forum (and yes... I have read the rest of this site) and I read the new Premie Site. Guess which bunch of folks sound one helluva lot more friendly and appealing to me??

Ah well.... at least you are making my decision about which path to follow easier!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:29:24 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: A Non Premie
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
Oh Bullshit. This is the real world of polarity and conflict. We don't hide behind smiley facades here and pretend we all agree or even like each other. We don't. Kinda like the real world, huh? Go for it, idiot. Get that 'knowledge.' I have the feeling you'll fit right in with the cult.

You're already a pretty good manipulator. You should make a good recruiter. You blatant attempt to influence behavior with this post is shallow and highly obvious. Get lost. Go do some service, sucker.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:57:09 (EDT)
From: Sister Mary Elephant
Email: None
To: A Non Premie
Subject: Another wonderful option!
Message:
Have you considered the Catholic church, dear? We have services, meditation, miracles galore, and even a colorful and charismatic leader! You only have to give on Sundays and there's non of that pesky traveling to do. You can get to know God right in your own back yard!

BTW, dear, your spelling and grammar are impeccable. A+, sweetie. Are you sure you weren't taught by the good sisters?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:19:13 (EDT)
From: A Non Premie
Email: None
To: Sister Mary Elephant
Subject: Another wonderful option!
Message:
Thank ewe four yore ree-plie. Why eye am hear is beekos I am not looking four a wunce a weak way of life...but an evrydae weigh of living.

Pee s. Pleese exqueues mie spelling. My spel chequer is browken.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:11:56 (EDT)
From: A None Premie
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
I don't expect you to hide behind smiley facades ... but less 'spitting acid' at people with differing views might be a better approach. I was not making an attempt to manipulate behaviour ... just stating my views.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:18:15 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: A None Premie
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
ANP: No you weren't, you were manipulating. The main reason people here 'spit acid,' as you say, is that they can't get a straight answer out of ANY premie. When a premie is asked a simple yes/no question, they respond with a MahaCULTji 'scripted' diatribe about how WE should look within for the answer. Sorry, THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER to any question. It's a cop-out for those that are too dim-witted to have an answer. If you would read the posts to and from premies that have visited this site, before opening your 'maw,' you would plainly see that this is true. This site is for 'thinking' people and those that WANT to think for themselves, again. There WILL BE highly contentious discussions here (that's called thinking and communications). DO WHAT the forum instructions say and READ some posts first, before you make comments on the vitriolic responses that some premies receive.

:-S
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 17:23:14 (EDT)
From: hamzen.the.hamster
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: mmmmmmmmmmm..............
Message:
That's.beautiful,.Mike
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:56:53 (EDT)
From: Anon#3
Email: Mensit@AOL.com
To: A Non Premie
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
I also have been watching this site for some time without commenting, and I agree with the Non Premie. What's the fuss all about. Maybe I should look for this Maharaji and find out? Is'nt there freedom of religon in America. I don't understand all the anger at this site. I don't see other cults and religons ex-followers/belivers fighting this way. I have also visited the other website (Enjoying Your Life) and they are not as angry as you people are? If you don't like a cult or religon just leave. What's the beef? I don't get it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:37:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: To Anon #3
Message:
Let's get honest, bud.

What's brought you to this and the other site in the first place? Come on, 'fess up. What's your trip? We're angry because .... well, do you really want to know or not? What have you read here? What do you know about any of this?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:42:35 (EDT)
From: John Hammond-Smyth
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
You guys are right, of course. This bunch of reprobates stink. All the the moaning about how they were lied to. As if God in human form could ever lie! That's ridiculous.

Personally, I'd not listen to their rantings and ravings. Why listen to scum like them when you can listen to the words of the master and his shining examples on the other site. Where else can you get to hear about this life and this gift? These ex-premies were given this gift and all they can do is moan, moan, moan. Don't listen to them. They are not human and anything they say could be the rantings of imbeciles.

My advice is to only listen and read what you WANT to and forget the rest, even though it may be true.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:38:38 (EDT)
From: A Non Premie
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
Good grief! Even I know the answer to that one! Have you honestly read all of this site? True, the other site is not 'angry'... but they do not feel disillusioned, betrayed, and robbed of part of their lives as ex-premies do. I think THIS is an extremely valuable site... but I am dismayed to see the approach that some posters are taking to tentative queries and comments from those in doubt.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:53:27 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
Read.the.background.materials.of.the.history.behind.Mr.So.Sincere.

Count.up.the.suicides.mentioned.in.all.of.the.postings,
imagine.yourself.in.the.ashrams,
then.you.might.not.have.such.a.naive.and
simple.view.of.what.is.going.on.here.

You.did.read.the.introductory.page.to.the.site.didn't.you?

Brain.washing.and.censorship.are.just.two.of.the.little.gifts.
he.shares.

He,.who.declared.guru.was.greater.than.god.and.promised.to.
bring.peace.to.the.world.in.less.than.twenty.years.
is.not.quite.so.straightforward,.and.humble.as.he.would.
like.you.to.believe.
Check.out.the.size.and.value.of.the.mansion.he.lives.in,
that's.apart.from.his.very.expensive.private.helicopter.
and.jet.
Don't.forget.to.leave.out.that.he.has.been.been.having.sex.
with.one.of.his.followers.right.in.front.of.his.wife.
for.twenty.years.

There's.more,like.he.is.an.alcoholic.neurotic,
who.likes.to.be.called.sir.and.bully.the.people.closest.to.him.
This.is.the.main.reason..he.only.chooses.to.have.people.around.
him.who.are.completely.unquestioning.
A.great.and.honest.communicator.who.asked.for.all.
his.early.videos,films,magazines.produced.by.HIS.organisation.
to.be.destroyed.and.banned,.when.he.moved.on.from.his.
lord.of.the.universe.days.
This.is.why.he.has.stopped.anyone.other.than.himself.
from.talking.about.the.knowledge.and.the.master.
Most.old.followers,.if.they.are.honest.believe.that.if.
he.is.not.god,.he.is.very.close.to.being.so..
They.will.not.say.so..now,.because.HE.has.told.them.not.to.
All.of.the.people.who.introduce.his.public.videos.are.reading.
from.scripts.written.by.him..He.says.this.is.to.protect.
newcomers.from.confusion.about.knowledge!

He.is.someone.who.verbally.bullied.his.true.followers.
into.giving.up.their.lives,.by,moving.into.ashrams.and.
dedicating.their.lives.to.him.until.their.deaths..
Hardly.any.time.later,.he.closed.those.ashrams.with.no.
preparation.for.the.people.who.thought.they.would.be.there.til.
they.died..A.large.number,.either.were.hospitalised,.
suffered.from.depression.or.committed.suicide.

Be.VERY.careful,.the.programming.is.VERY.subtle,.
especially.to.someone.who.is.looking.for.something.
that.is.missing.in.their.life

The.reason.there.is.so.much.emotion.here.is.because.it.was.
denied.for,years.IF.you.followed.what.he.said.

There.is.more,.but.you.would.probably.think.I'm.a.neurotic.
myself,.who.is.prone.to.exaggeration..If.you.hang.around.for.a.
while,.or.read.the.archives.you.might.realize.what.a.great.
danger.you.are.in.
Holy.deception.is.not.a.pleasant.sight.when.you.peek
behind.the.veils.

If.you.pick.and.choose,.and.don't.mind.fooling.yourself.about.
where.any.or.all.of.your.experiences.are.coming.from,
you.might.be.partially.lucky.
This.new.premie.site.is.not.so.controlled.and.censored.for.
no.reason..
Unless.you.think.that.it's.just.an.accident.that.so.many.
ex-followers.are.so.angry,.or.that.those.who.left.are.crazy,
be.very.careful.The.route.to.the.heart.via.gm.is.paved.
with.denial.of.yourself.and.your.own.thoughts.

If.after.all.this.and.REALLY.checking.out.the.reality,.
you're.prepared.to.risk.it.or.you.are.desperate.for.something.
or.anything,go.for.it.Years.later,when.you.have.forgotten.how.
to.think.for.yourself.and.you.have.difficulty.facing.your.doubts.
about.him,.doubts.which.you.will.be.encouraged.to.think.of.as.
your.mind.,.remember.the.responses.you.heard.here.

When.there.is.THIS.much.smoke,.make.very.sure.it'what.you
want.before.walking.into.what.might.appear.to.be.something.
very.simple,and.straightforward.
The.old.proverb.about.no.smoke.without..fire,.is.very.pertinent.
here.He.is.very.clever.in.ways.his.lack.of.intelligence.and.
lack.of.articulateness.hides.

Simple,sincere.people,are,what.he.feeds.upon.

The.primary.reason.there.is.so.much.pain.and.anger.here.is.that.
most.of.us.thought.we.were.intelligent.and.got.sucked.in,
in.a.way,.in.retrospect,.it.is.almost.hard.to.believe.
That.is.one.of.the.main.reasons.there.is.so.much.anger.
That.and.knowing.he.is.still.weaving.his.very.clever.web,.
as.we.speak...
Some.people.took.thirty.years.to.start.listening.to.a.part.of.
themselves.they.had.ended.up.completely.denying,.with.his.total.
support.and.encouragement.

As.they.say,.good.day.to.you.sunshine,.but.beware.he.who.
encouragesyou.to.stop.thinking,.in.the.guise.of.simplicity,.love.
and.humility.

Compare.the.two.sites.and.see.where.the.censorship.is,.
the.denial.of.real.democracy.and.debate,.as.much.as.the.
denial.of.so.many.other.aspects.of.what.defines.a.life.

He.also.prays.upon.peoples.own.weaknesses.
Ask.yourself.some.hard.questions.and.you.will.almost.for.
certain.save.yoursef.some.longer.term.pain.

He.also.doesn't.let.on.how.important.the.masters.role.is,.
until.you.are.well.and.truly.hooked,.hooked.to.something.
which.you.thought.was.about.nothing.but.a.simple.experience.
of.the.pleasue.and.value.of.your.own.life..

Debate,.democracy.and.expressive.feelings.are.needed.here.
precisely.because.they.were.denied.for.so.long,.
and.so.effectively.

When.comparing.the.two.sites,.ask.who.is.the.most.open.to.
questions?.Look.at.the.opportunities.for.anyone.to.voice.their.
opinion..Wonder.at.the.levels.of.self.censorship..
The.followers.of.gm.have.a.lot.invested.in.him.Look.out.for.the.
key.phrases.that.are.repeated.parrot.fashion.from.the.great.man.
himself..
Do.not.assume.they.are.just.reflections.of.the.individuals.
experience..The.more.letters.and.quotes.that.are.posted.there,.
the.more.they.will.expose.this,.to.anyone.who.values.their.
self,.their.feelings.and.thoughts...
We.know.the.rote.phrases.he.uses.that.they.all.copy..
People.here.think.for.themselvex.and.each.individual.thinks.
differently.We.all.use.different.language.because.we.have.
all.experienced.groupthink,.in.a.way.it.would.be.hard.for.you.
to.comprehend..
We.will.fight.ferociously.for.the.right.to.take.our.own.
routes,.in.a.way.that.looks.excessive.to.an.outsider.

That.is.no.accident.

yours.with.the.gammy.keyboard,.hamzen
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 13:28:00 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: mmm
To: hamzen
Subject: Great Post!
Message:
That is a keeper! Clear. I-liked-the-punctuation-too.

RT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:06:11 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: A Non Premie
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
Enjoy your journey through nowhere land, NP. That's what it was for me. If it turns out to be the same for you, hopefully we'll still be here to lend you an understanding ear. Before you go, though, how many questions have you asked about M & K? Were you satisfied with the answers?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:07:14 (EDT)
From: A Non Premie
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The Opposite Effect!
Message:
To be honest... I have not asked many questions. I have simply been reading, observing and digesting the information that I find. I guess many of you have been so traumatised you cannot see your own 'group think' in action. Many, many premies are totally happy and contented in their way of life. THEY may be right. YOU may be right. I don't know. All I can do is find out for myself (but make sure I gather as much info as possible before embarking on my journey.) Thanks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:34:35 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: A Non Premie
Subject: Ha Ha Ha
Message:
You're absolutely right, asshole. This is nothing but a pr battle. Go with the nice guys. Let them buy you lunch. No, let them let you buy them lunch.

You've got to be kidding, right? Your choices are: 1) actually join in a long, anything-and-everything discussion with all sorts of people who used to be in this cult; or 2) go to the slick, repressed no-free-nothing-but-access-to-the-donation-box site of the cult itself and you're threatening us with the prospect of withholding your love?

Fuck off, junior.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:21:22 (EDT)
From: Anon#3
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ha Ha Ha
Message:
Sounds like a PR battle to me. With allot of anger on one side and I don't know what on the other side? I've never met Maharaji or any of his followers. All I know I've read at these two sites.
I've done some yoga before so I think I understand meditation, and I have heard of, and have some literature from Sri Swami Sat Chit Ananda here in Virginia. But I really don't know what you guys thing is all about. It sounds to me like you guys are very disappointed and upset with your former guru?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:32:40 (EDT)
From: Sister Mary Elephant
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: Ha Ha Ha
Message:
It sounds to me like you guys are very disappointed and upset with your former guru?

You might say that, dear. Yes, upset is a good way to say it. And disappointed. Very disappointed.

Well said, dear, bless you. I'll remember you at Vespers.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:45:48 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: Ha Ha Ha
Message:
It sounds to me like you guys are very disappointed and upset with your former guru?

Former cult leader is a more approriate way of wording it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 13:41:43 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Anon#3
Subject: A hint
Message:
Anon#3 or whoever you are: Here's a hint. When you go to receive K, make absolutely sure that the 'interviewers' know that you practice yoga and that you think that you fully understand meditation. They WILL BE impressed.... And you'll be refused entry into the world of K, for about a year! THIS IS A CULT, my friend, and they don't think that you know anything! They will tell you that you don't know anything! They will convince you that YOU don't know anything! Get the picture? Yes, the people on the premie site 'SEEM' so sincere! They seem so serene. They seem so honest. They SEEM; and that's the WHOLE point. All CULT-types SEEM SO (fill in the blank)! You are now communicating with some of those people that 'SEEMED' so 'everything.' The difference is that WE woke-up. We, FINALLY, saw the truth of this destructive, mind-warping, CULT!

- Ask yourself a simple question: Where has ALL of the money gone? Where has this 'master' seen fit to spend it? Why isn't he sending any excess cash to the folks that need it? Why isn't he 'feeding all of the people' as he said he would do? Why is he living such a ludicrously rich life-style when 'money' has nothing to do with peace (his words)? Why did he send his kids to expensive schools while telling premies that an education is a waste of time? Why hasn't he brought peace to this place, like he said he would do in less than 20 years (it's been 30, by the way)? Why hasn't he done ANYTHING positive for this world since the day of his BIRTH?

- UPSET??? UPSET??? NO, we're not upset, we're SEETHING from all of the lies that we were told! Don't understate the reality of the damage he has done and continues to do!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 02:56:09 (EDT)
From: A Non Premie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ha Ha Ha
Message:
Thanks for the kind words Jim. I just knew I could count on you to be supportive! *smile*

I'm not threatening anyone with anything... just trying to explain my thoughts. I don't see it, at the moment as an either/or choice for me. I shall continue to regularly visit both sites.

Oh... and a bit less of the 'junior'. I am closer to 50 than I am to 40!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 09:54:23 (EDT)
From: Charisma
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Maharji is the Divine Lord of the Universe. I found this website by accident today and I feel sorry for all of you ex-premies. You have no love in your life. You're bitter angry fustrated people and you're trying to stop others from experiencing the love of God. Which is Maharaji's gift to the world. Be careful of what karma you bring upon yourselves. Remember you reap what you sow.
All the stuff I've read in this Forum says you ex-premies are not having a good experience of life. How unfortunate. Wheather you love him or not Maharaji still loves you, and he says you're welcome to come back at any time.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:22:00 (EDT)
From: Barnard
Email: None
To: Charisma
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Thank you very much Charisma. I agree; these ex-premies have lost the magic of knowledge and it shows in their conversation. They are very hurtful people. I hope God will bless them anyway.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:18:52 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Barnard
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Barnard: IF there is a god, he's already 'blessed us' by getting us out of the most destructive cult I've ever had the displeasure of knowing about!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:16:46 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Charisma
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Wheather you love him or not Maharaji still loves you, and he says you're welcome to come back at any time.

This won't be anytime soon. He never gave me a reason to stick around the first time.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 11:48:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I'm on my way!!!
Message:
Personally (and I talked this over with my girlfriend) I've decided to go back to Maharaji. It was Charanand nd Whittaker's vaseline-smeared remembrances. I, too, remembered people by their first name from a long time ago. I, too, remember when it was a different decade altogether, not even just the last one but one before that. I,too, remember fat mamas like Suzy Bai and Mata Ji. I, too, remember that Charanand knows best. I, too, like the graphics.

My only question at this point is whether I get a little Canadian flag to post something next to. (We never had them here. Brian, you're a real stingy jerk, aren't you? You knew there were flags out there and you never got us any. Why couldn't we have flags for our every post? Think how cool that would have been. Too late now. I'm outta here.)

My only other question is will this get me a free astrological reading by Jonathan Cainer (who, by the way, owes my former girlfriend, Debra, one from about twenty years ago).

Anyway, Bruce, Student, PT, OP, Mili and especially you Chris, save me a place in the food line. I'm on my way!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 15:29:16 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Jim
Subject: I'm on my way!!!
Message:
Did you say Whittaker, as in Glen Whittaker? I don't believe it. Of all the people I used to know, he was the one who used to shout the loudest about Maharaji being the supreme. Almighty, God in human form, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, most radiant and most blessed, Lord of all the Universes (and beyond)

If he's still with Maharaji - well what an anomoly that is, to be polite.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 16:11:10 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're right. I'm not happy
Message:
at the moment, but I am glad to be getting out of this cult which has trapped me for years. At least I don't have to do videos (satsang), service, meditation, and darshan anymore. Most of the time, these activities didn't make me happy either, but I did them from a sense of guilt.

Thanks to MJs suggesting I not to come to this site (he sparked my curiosity in the first place) and to the concerted efforts of ex-premies and supporters--the quintessential brick fell--MJ IS NOT THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE. I WAS ABLE TO BREAK AWAY. Until then, I was stuck no matter how much I didn't want to be.

Since then, a lot more bricks have fallen. I am not happy some of these losses. For example, I am currently vacillating with IS THERE A GOD/ISN'T THERE A GOD. This sucks.

How do you know he's the Lord? You know this because you were told it at an impressionable time in your life and you chose to believe it. New premies never reach that conclusion, nor do they stay. In fact, how many new premies or aspirants do you have in your town? You are telling us, he's the Lord. Do you tell new people that? I doubt it, since you were told to let people make up their own minds about MJ.

You are here reading this because you have doubts of your own that you've been attempting to quash for years. Your jury is out. I hope you get a favourable verdict. By the way, is this Ron Sherwood (the weather man)?

All the best.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:25:02 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: You're right. I'm not happy
Message:
Gail: I 'discovered' recently that M (as a master-of-deception) had successfully wrapped his tentacles around EVERY belief I ever held. When I 'pushed' M's influence away, it seemed that his 'tentacles' took my entire belief-system with him. Most of these beliefs were well developed before I even knew that M existed. You are, likely, in the same boat, so to speak. Don't let that 'tentacled' a**hole strip you of that which you hold dear (whatever it is). Your mind IS your own and you should do with it as YOU WILL! Everyone here is going thru various stages of this same battle. Some have come to one conclusion about god and others have come to a different conclusion. So what? Does it matter to you what 'I' believe (or anyone else)? It's YOUR decision to make. Just don't hand your mind over to anybody else, ever again, and you will be ok. OK? ;-)

- I hope this came across the way that it was intended (not condescending or anything like that!) I'm going (have gone) thru that same dilemma and it's a TOUGH one, to be sure!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 16:57:27 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: freedom@gtn.net
To: Mike
Subject: You're right!
Message:
Thanks. I need to start banging on my breastbone more. (8 minutes to happiness)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 00:51:04 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: where do you want to go today
Message:
C'mon Jim. You know you're not supposed to offer constructive criticism to Brian on the open forum. Couldn't you just do what you're supposed to do sometimes?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 16:01:48 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Charisma
Subject: Divine Lord of the Universe
Message:
Maharaji is the Divine Lord of the Universe.

Thank you so much for pointing this out. I am sure all interested people and potential aspirants will be happy to get this information, which is so diligently withheld from them in Maharaji's deceptive introductory and aspirant process. Would you also post some stuff about darshan? I think the fact that Maharaji has his feet kissed by thousands is also a little piece of information not disclosed at introductory video programs, and something Maharaji felt he had to go to the outback of Australia to engage in, hoping the rest of the world would not notice.

I just had dinner with a person who has recently switched from premie to ex-premie, who received knowledge 5 years ago, and who did not know that Maharaji was called, and allowed himself to be called, for years, 'Lord of the Universe.' She was quite pissed that no one had ever mentioned that to her. She is also quite happy to be free from the cult and wonders how she ever fell for it in the first place. Don't we all.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:06:54 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Charisma
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Charisma: Of course, as a premie, you are totally......WRONG! I do have very REAL LOVE in my life. It's REAL LOVE that comes from loving a REAL person. It's a love that expects nothing from anyone in order to receive it (read that: unqualified love). It's the love I have for my family (and friends) and them for me. It's the kind of love about which you have no knowledge because, if you did, you would realize that you don't have any REAL LOVE, at all.

- Worshipping M from afar isn't love. Giving your life to M, in your heart, isn't love. Him saying 'blessings to all of the premies' (and doing nothing concrete to make it happen) is DEFINITELY NOT love, either. Love 'may' be a feeling, but REAL LOVE is ALWAYS followed by REAL ACTION (something your 'master' hasn't 'mastered,' yet!). Who's organization said, 'watch who'll be feeding all the people' and has since done NOTHING to make it happen? Who said, 'I will establish peace on this earth' and hasn't even begun in 30 years (it was supposed to be done in less than 20) If M WERE the LOTU, it would have happened already (with or without our help)! Lord of the Universe, my ASS! MASTER-OF-YOUR-WALLET is more like it!

- You'll note that, after having written the last sentence, I still have my eyes and I wasn't struck by lightning.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 10:52:56 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Ow, Mike. You sure know how to sting a guy(gal?), don't you? That blast of truth you just shot at Charisma has probably left her with her jaw hanging, no charisma in her expression at all. I'm assuming Charisma is a she. Otherwise, he'd be Charismo, no?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 13:36:11 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Divine Lord
Message:
Jerry: Thanks, I calls it likes I sees it! I WILL say one thing about Charisma, she(?) had the guts to tell us that she thinks M is LOTU. That's a first for any communication that I've had with an active premie.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 14:47:29 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Charisma
Subject: Another question...
Message:
Charisma: The quote that follows in the next paragraph is from charan anand. After reading it, I've got a question that has to do with M being the LOTU.

- 'One day he asked me: 'What do you think? Should I go back to India, or should I go to America?' I said: 'Maharaji, you know best. But as far as my feelings are concerned I know if you go back to India Mata Ji will definitely send you back to school. And I heard you saying you don't want to waste your time there. So let's go to America.' He said: 'You are right, it feels good.' So on 17 July 1971, we flew together to Los Angeles.'

- Given the statement above, why would the LOTU ask ANYONE's opinion of what he should do next? It seems to me that LOTU would KNOW what to do next and DO IT without anyone's approval. Mata Ji (his estranged mother) would NOT be able to stop the true LOTU from doing anything, whatsoever. Don't these incongruities mean anything to you?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:32:39 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: re: The 'Enjoying Life' site
Message:
Well, I had a quick peek at the site and my first impression was that it is an attempt to out-do this site. ie :to redress the balance or whatever. It is slightly naive in it's obvious 'Nah-Nah-Nah' 'We can do it better than exes' copying of the format of this site. The relief and enthusiasm of some premies, who blissfully coo about its simple luvliness is, of course, very touching. Obviously it is, to that dedicated but sadly deluded multitude, a welcome rebuttal to the bad press, so wickedly provided on this and JM's site. However I personally rather doubt that it is Maharaji's idea to undertake such an ill-advised campaign. Judging by the carefully withheld and rather vacuous offerings that Cainer and his motely crew have accepted for initial contributions, one detects something of the nervous child venturing into the big bad world, unsure of itself but desparate to express its 'Raison d'etre'. I am certain that the main weapon in their arsenal is the sheer magnitude of the soppy masses who will rush, like the very waters from a burst dam, to swell the numbers of those that say 'Knowledge is Good - Maharaji is Great' That will of course prove conclusively that Knowledge is a Good Thing once and for all. (Despite the profane efforts of those relatively few of Maharaji's dreaded and despicable enemies )

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the site vanishes as quickly as it appeared. The inclusion of carefully innocuous contributions from the likes of Glen Whittaker and the (allegedly promiscuous!) Saint Guru Charanand calculatedly attempts to lend some authority to their enterprise, but I suspect that this is a largely renegade venture. Some of the contributors are well-known eccentrics (amongst premies) and I see no real stamp of approval from above. I have to say that I did not care to wade through the enormous page of legal stuff. I always think it looks so funny when people on the web think that they can gain anything whatsoever from displaying such diatribe.

The contributors letters are an excellent and ready source of current material to deconstuct piecemeal on this site and in the press. These premies must understand that everything they say is now in the public domain and can be used as fuel for the argument that Maharaji is a cult leader. Somebody will probably have already copied all the material to trash at leisure. Journalists will see the site eventually and will probably not be so generous in their appraisals as the partisan premies.

Maharaji does not want publicity. Even if the authors think they are presenting a harmless public face they will surely attract the sort of attention Maharaji can do without and of course, somewhere down the line, despite all their self-confidence and 'we're doing Maharaji a favour - he'll be really pleased with us in the end' childishness. They will probably come to realise that Daddy is not altogether pleased with his naughty children for this bit of unwanted publicity. At least Maharaji himself has no delusions that premies can do anything to help him other than to stay mum and support him financially and with silent service, so that he can do it His way.

Premies are clearly frustrated by the constant berating of their beloved leader over here and cannot restrain themselves from wanting to do something about it. Frustrated by the liberality that the Net heralds, and dying to be included in the fun, they have adopted the attitude of..if you can't beat them, join them and thus they have taken a reckless plunge into the real world. This is exactly what Maharaji's detractors have been waiting for, is it not? In effect, all those who have authored and conceived this Ex-Premie site should give themselves a hearty pat on the back, since quite clearly they have succeeded in one of the founding objectives which was loosely as I understand ...

To persuade by any means possible, Maharaji (or at least premies) to break the long awaited conspiracy of silence and to prompt a challenge, in effect, to the autocratic system that has for so long suppressed them; so that they may engage in some much needed self-expression and natural social intercourse.

Right.
The first thing to be done now is to copy and paste the more absurd wafflings that are displayed at this new premie site and to mount a vigorous deconstruction. ( I suspect that the tireless Jim Heller is engaged as I write in the advanced stages of this exercise). If premies are to be so naive as to take a step into the world of people with working minds then they must take the consequences.

I think I see smoke on the horizon, a courageous but misguided little band of piqued premies trying to stake a claim to a part of the free world. Beware that they will try to create a virtual version of their cultic world. This is a sinister development, a rash, a disease, a blot on the landscape, no more no less; but, (let's be positive) an inevitable one, and part of the process of their demise of course. Let us not ignore the cryptic implications of their seemingly innocent foray... They are throwing down a wary but distinct gauntlet to the ENEMY that, my friends, (I am sorry to have to inform as if you were not aware) is, apparently encamped here.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 08:18:12 (EDT)
From: Anony
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: More Sites To Come!!!
Message:
Be advised there are currently two more sites under construction by different practicing premies, other than Enjoying Your Life, that will carry a more positive tone. You don't have to do much to be more positive than this ex-premie site. Before this is over, you will find very soon, more than a half dozen sites talking about Maharaji and His Knowledge. I think you will also find these sites, and this kind of publicity, will increase propagation of Maharaji's Knowledge. This has nothing to do with Elan Vital. These are private practicing premies devoted to Maharaji.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 17:45:19 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Anony
Subject: More Sites To Come!!!
Message:
Wouldn't 'private premies devoted to maharaji' be an
oxymoron?

Do you really think this will provide more balance?
Don't you think all the premies you attract will be inticed to
come here? Yes they will!
It will be hard to resist-just like it is for you.
Not all will refuse to see truth and stay foolish.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:35:41 (EDT)
From: RR
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Time to close thiis site
Message:
The 'Enjoying Life' website is put together by the same group who revived 'Divine Times' and produced a special 'Festival edition' a couple of years ago. Their latest offering was the event magazine, sold for a snip at £9.00 at the last Wembley programme.

What you see on the site right now is the best of British. The team, including the odd professional writer, are the most literate premie bunch around. What's going to be interesting is to see what follows.

Most contributions to premie journals are full of the most nutty, superlative filled garbage, which never gets into print. So it will be interesting to see how they handle all this, 'More and more each day, it's so beautiful, he is my everything...' guff on the site.

I imagine if the real premie crap starts appearing on their sites, then their own words will undoubtedly displaytheir cult status, much better than the vaguely sane gibbering we get around here. So we'll be able to wind up this site and enjoy watching 'Death by a thousand superlatives'.

My own guess is that the moderators will get so fed up trying to figure out what to do with all the premie garbage that arrives, they'll eventually give up.

It's wonderful they've been lured into the open. Now lets watch them sink under the crap that will start piling up.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:23:04 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: RR
Subject: death by 1000 superlatives
Message:
Good post and point RR
Humorous too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 19:20:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RR
Subject: Time to close thiis site
Message:
I'm really scared. What ever happened to freedom of speech? Are you really feeling GOOMERAJI'S bliss right now. Don't read here if you don't like it. What does RR stand for? REACTIONARY RSE----?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:39:57 (EDT)
From: HAMZEN.IN.BLISS
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: More Sites To Come!!!
Message:
It.gets.more.wonderful.by.the.hour!

More.
Heaven.
Ifeel.a.state.of.complete.wonderment.coming.over.me,some.of.them are BOUND.to.have.forum type.discussions.

The media.will.love it, even.more.than.we.will.

The.power.of.the.lord.

Bhole.shri.satgurudev.maharaj.ki.jai

Hope.you're.thinking.of.retiring.Jim!
Where.else.will.you.find.the.time.

:).to.EVERYONE
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:19:37 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Good Ol' Anon
Message:
So good to see you typing again Anon.
Must you vacation so long?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 06:10:41 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Good Ol' Bill
Message:
Just caught your post way down here. The action's hotting up with the premie site on line and up for derision!
I must say that at the moment there are some excellent posts happening..that is what prompts me to type too.
cheers Bill
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:34:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Funnier than shit
Message:
Okay, seeing that the premies have actually started their own page I'm going to break all rules of civility, natural law and the Geneva Convention and report on a dialogue between Bruce and Keith over on the premie site. Really, you guys should read it. It's that funny.

Keith starts off with his usual meandering throw-it-all-out-there musings, including some questions of Maharaji. You know. Then Bruce replies, telling him he wouldn't have so many questions if he just did a little more service, like Bruce, at Amaroo. To which Keith rightly says, 'What kind of answer is that?' To which Bruce says, amongst other things:

Keith,

You know , maybe you're gonna hate this, but really, your
'Answer me Bruce' post is so classic Jim Heller, that prolific M. hater over on Ex-prem org! We become like the company we keep, so I guess its not so surprising in your case, having spent so much time there.

As you may remember, I spent some time there trying to talk some sense with them, but gave it away as a waste of time. I did notice my mind replaying a lot of the crap written there though, and how it was starting to affect my ability to listen and enjoy M's videos and in practicing.
I'm glad to not be wasting my time there any longer.


To which Keith replies.... well you gotta read it yourself. Ah, life!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:23:47 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: J & K: two peas in a pod!
Message:
I did notice my mind replaying a lot of the crap written there though, and how it was starting to affect my ability to listen and enjoy M's videos and in practicing.

So, this forum really is dangerous!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:35:35 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Funnier than shit
Message:
Its why Jim Heller keeps asking and demanding his questions be answered, despite many premies attempting to answer.He is incapable of hearing their answers.

You're on a somewhat different wavelength than premies, Jim. Count your blessings. Premies don't care much , apparently, for a simple, direct response to a question. Is it possible that they're trying to emulate M's style of evading questions? M always goes off on tangents that don't seem to address the question at all. Maybe premies are just adopting his style.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:13:36 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Funnier than shit
Message:
Jim: That was FANTASTIC! THIS site really does appear to be 'doing' something when comments that are made here 'replay' in a premies mind. WONDERFUL! ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 20:13:16 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Premies
Subject: Guru is as Guru does
Message:
This one is for premies and students, or maybe half-hearted lurkers unsure of where they stand, and it will be my last post of any size for a while and I didn't want my last thread to be the apoplectic frenzy of my 'I despise the bastard' post (though I stand by every word of that little diatribe).

'And so, dear premies…'

It is usually very hard - if not impossible - to prove a negative. Take a statement like: Guru is the father of all, the creator of love, the Lord of the Universe . This was the opening line to the chorus of a song on the 'Blue Aquarius' album; a record made under the direction of brother Bhole Ji and published by Maharaj Ji's organisation (with the Lord of the Universe's blessing). Mightn't we assume that a claim is being made here about Maharaj Ji's divinity?

Er, maybe

The trouble with claims of this kind is that while there are all sorts of ways that a Lord of the Universe could prove his authenticity if he were that way inclined, there is no way for anybody else to unequivocally prove he is not the Lord. So how is a skeptic, or even an unbiased observer to approach the task?

There is a second problem in that revisionists can always reinterpret the extravagant claims of the past (I think it might be Chuck who does this in a post lower down). The method is well-established: God is everywhere, and inside each one of us. When Googoo claimed to be God, he only meant it in the sense that we are all God, albeit a few laps behind Goomarmaruji in the spiritual beauty stakes. Divine status is shared out a little and everyone is happy and recognises how mad we all were to ever imagine we were following a living incarnation.

So even proving to the world that Maharaj Ji is not Lord of the Universe - were it possible - wouldn't achieve anything since, apparently, he was never claiming that the first place.

There is, however, a very good way of challenging Maharaj Ji's 'special status' - whatever you want to call it - if we look at the way skeptical psychologists test the claims of people in possession of 'psychic powers'. This is a similar 'proving the negative' problem, and I'm afraid I will have to bring in Uri Geller and James Randi again (since I can't think of a better example). Geller has made millions of pounds over the last thirty years performing astonishing tasks that he attributes to his psychic powers. Randi is a master conjuror (one of the best in the world according to other conjurors) who has been telling the world over the same period that Geller is a fraud - just an average stage magician with his own trademark novelty trick, ie., bending teaspoons.

Why is this relevant? Simply because Randi can duplicate, using conjuring alone, every single wonder that Geller can (presumably) only manage psychically. Randi doesn't just bend the teaspoons, though, he has them looping and curling into the sort of shapes that would turn Geller green. Geller's inability to do his stuff under proper observing conditions has led to his losing the libel suit he brought against Randi, which forces us to conclude that until he can do something that others claiming no powers cannot do, we must assume that he too has no powers. I saw psychologist and ex-conjuror Richard Wiseman give a talk a few weeks back. I was in the front row, just feet away; his sleeves were rolled up beyond his elbows. Casually, whilst talking, he made a red handkerchief disappear into the palm of one hand then reappear from that palm 30 seconds later. The effect was so astonishing that, had he claimed to possess powers, I'd have almost believed him. Wiseman has tested yogis in India who make stuff materialise in the palm of their hands (isn't that what Sai Baba does?) By the simple expedient of wrapping a polythene bag around the hand in question and tying it, the yogi's astonishing paranormal gift suddenly vanishes (as if by magic...)

But Maharaj Ji doesn't do tricks, does he? - unless you count that 'holy breath' routine for first-timers in darshan. Instead, belief is secured not by proving your claims to be somebody special but by encouraging your followers in the strongest possible terms to: 'leave no room for doubt in your mind' (The 4th Commandment when I received so-called knowledge).

And once doubt is removed what is left?

'An experience' is the premie answer, but the wrong answer. What is left is belief. Premies don't bring their experience to this forum, they bring their belief. (Hear me out, please… or if you've had enough already, you might prefer Keith's Millenial Musings on Cosmic Consciousness at http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=forumlite&id=662.961001027375). But whether we are talking tricks or no tricks, Living Master or 'meditation teacher' the same basic approach can be brought to bear on the central question of whether Maharaj Ji is somebody who is uniquely special; somebody worth following, serving or draining your credit card account for.

We simply ask the question: 'What can Maharaj Ji do, that others claiming no special status cannot do?'

Consider the evidence:

Q: Could anybody 'give knowldege', ie., pass on four simple knowledge techniques?

A: YES

Q: Would the meditation experiences be the same if somebody else was the 'giver'?

A: YES (There is a premie saying that practising the knowledge techniques without devoting oneself to M is like vacuuming the floor without plugging in the hoover. If this is the case, one wonders about the state of the carpets in Yogananda's Self Realization Fellowship who have used the same techniques for half a century. And assuming these techniques are superior to other forms of meditation, then what on earth keeps millions of Buddhists, yogis and zensters and TMsters hacking away so diligently at the inner coal-face? Meanwhile, US fighter pilots testing their resistance to g-forces in a giant centifuge get a white-light bliss-out every time, without so much as doing pranam for their experience.)

Q: But do M's addresses reveal a more profound understanding of meditation than those of other mediation teachers?

A: NO (M never even talks about meditation?)

Q: Does M know the future, any better than a non-master knows the future

A: NO (Around 1971, M delivered 'The Great Declaration'. This promised 'I declare I will establish peace on this earth in my lifetime'. M is now 40 years old, and premie numbers are dwindling. So by whichever mathematical formula you draw the curve, let's face it, this one just ain't gonna happen. He also predicted a massive exponential propagation of his message across the planet 'within twenty years'.) BTW: Lennon died aged 40, Dylan Thomas at 39, George Gershwin. They made more of a positive contribution to world peace, the word and divine music, respectively, than M would manage if he outlived Methuselah.

Q: Does M have a unique insight into the workings of the cosmos?

A: NO (He has at various times stated that reincarnation both does and does not happen. In a current video he says that he does not know what happens when we die. In a misguided cartoon paperback book entitled 'The Sayings of Guru Maharaj Ji' that came out circa 1976, M tells an old indian yarn about why we should not believe astrologers. Yet in the eighties he sought guidance from an astrologer - as reported here by Mark Appleman).

Q: Does M understand the origins of life on earth, better than others understand it?

A: NO (Not if M's 'monkey bones', 'dead seeds' and the 'hairy humans' satsangs are anything to go by. Dawkins certainly hasn't revised his theories.)

Q: Can M make things happen psychokinetically any more than a non-master can?

A: NO (In spite of claiming to be able too make rainbows appear or turn motorways around, he has always shied away from actually carrying out his megolomaniacal threats, at least when anybody is looking.)

Q: Does M have clairvoyant powers?

A: NO (He didn't know what the guy with the custard pie was intending, for one thing)

Q: Could any other teacher have gained the love and respect of so many thousands'

A: YES (Hubbard, Moon, Rajneesh and Moses David have all had their moments)

Q: What about when Grace manifests in people's lives to make good things happen?

A: WHAT ABOUT IT? (it looks pretty much exactly the same as when coincidence manifests in people's lives to make good things happen)

Q: Is that satsang experience unique to satsang

A: NO (Ron mentioned the time he shared satsang with a non-premie friend. The friend reported waking up seeing light. There is nothing remarkable about this. I had a non-believing friend who used to see light lying on the bed listening to Santana in a 'just something that happens' kind of way. During a college seminar discussing the subject of consciousness, people were discussing the 'peak experiences' of their life, without any kind of spiritual context, let alone a Maharaj Ji context. The feeling in the room - in me actually - reminded me of satsang, and it was like the silence between speakers was ringing and several students were commenting on how they felt all strange, sort of mellow and nice just from discussing that stuff. Just mind, relaxation and suggestion, IMHO. Certainly no need for Old Blossom Toes to make it happen.

Q: Do we have any reason to suppose that everything that M has done in his life could not have been achieved by any other holy joe, actor, fantasist, deluded idiot or deliberate fraudster?

A: NO (Or do you know otherwise - that is, really know otherwise?)

Toodle-pip.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 20:54:07 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Guru is as Guru does
Message:
Brilliant,Nigel,justbrilliant

'Meanwhile, US fighter pilots testing their resistance to g-forces in a giant centifuge get a white-light bliss-out every time, withoutso much as doing pranam for their experience.'

Any
suggested
texts
Nigel,
very
interested

gonna
miss
your
big
ones

mucho
respect

ham
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:19:36 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Read Nigel's post
Message:
That was an excellent post. Thank you. I hope lots of premies read it. I'm going to photocopy it and mail it to my premie ex-friends.

I'll miss your posts.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:57:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Guru is as Guru does
Message:
Excellent, Nigel. I remember when we would indeed have gone toe-to-toe with other 'spiritual' experiencers assuming,as we did, that they simply didn't have special sauce on their tofu burgers. That's probably what premies today would say. There's not a lot of room for pluralim in Maharaji's show. But hey, that's the hallmark of a cult, isn't it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 10:16:22 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Bye for now and thanks...
Message:
Thanks, all of you.

Over the last three or four posts here I feel like I have said everything I ever wanted to say about Maharaj Ji, and I really don’t want to discuss him any more. I’m beginning to resent the loathsome little worm for the time I spend criticising him on the forum which is, of course, dreadfully unfair on the pour soul since he never gave me personal agya to rip the shit out of him on the web, did he? (Unless it is just his lila, in which case it is ALL his fault - and serves him bloody-well right.)

I need a big break to do some other things. My life is really looking up at the moment and if I’m not careful I could mess things up for myself by spending too long on the forum. (I think Jim’s had this problem too). I have spent two nights in the last week up till 4.30 am when I had to get up again at seven. Too much more of that and I will make myself ill.

I will look in again in due course. Anyone is welcome to email me whenever at: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk (work) or nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk (home). I owe a few people emails and will write soon. I feel like I have made some really good friends here over the last 10 months, as well as having finally resolved some long-standing questions about the holy shitbag. One of the great things for me has been seeing some recent premies extricate themselves from the mindwarp right in front of our very eyes. If I have contributed anything at all to that process then my time here can’t all have been wasted.

This forum has become unstoppable now and there are some very sharp, articulate people here telling the world their true experiences of the cult in a way that is bound to affect maybe thousands of premies in the future. I sincerely hope so. Let’s hope M’s whole pathetic guru enterprise crumbles and falls ‘within his lifetime’, and the man with the mission becomes - well - the man without a mission, I suppose. Equally important are the premie posters whose slippery evasions should be transparent to all readers. Long may they continue to fire their spiteful little darts in our direction.

Hamzen: the NDE-type experiences of fighter pilots was featured on a BBC series called ‘the Human Body’ which traced human life from conception through to death. Worth watching if it is ever shown over there.
(I wrote a longish post about it a couple of months back called, I think, ‘35 NDE’s and a funeral’). The presenter, Professor Winston, visited the world’s largest centrifuge at a US air force base and interviewed some pilots. One said he had had 35 classic NDE’s - one for every ride in the centrifuge. The airmen reported going through ‘a tunnel of light’, having their lives flash before them and experiencing profound bliss. They have also run brain scans of the pilots to see what is happening inside their heads while all this is going on. The tunnel of light is explained by the g-force stresses causing cells in the visual cortex to start firing at random; these cells are densely-packed in the centre of the visual field, but are more sparse further out, giving the impression of a tunnel. The bliss arises through the brain going into massive over-production of natural opiates to counter the stress it is experiencing (which, I suppose, might explain why the premie experience can veer from extreme stress to ecstasy..?!) Also, there is a lot of random firing in areas of the brain associated with long-term memory storage, hence the past-life stuff. I’d like to find out more about this, and see what they have in the libraries at college. Do you have an email, Hamzen? BTW: I have agreed with practically every one of your posts on this forum. There has been some great stuff there.

Keep up the good work, Brian and everybody (too many of you to list - and I’m bound to forget someone)
Love,
Nigel
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 19:07:47 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: mc@hamzen.demon.co.uk
To: nigel
Subject: Bye for now and ........
Message:
'I have agreed with practically every one of your posts on this forum. There has been some great stuff there.'

Coming.from.you.that.is.a.real.compliment,.much.appreciated..
Since.we're.into.back.slapping.territory,.I've.found.your.posts.of.articulate.intelligence.quite.inspiring..
As.someone.who.can.slip.rather.too.easily.into.cosy.new-ageness.
on.my.bad.days,.that.
articulateness.of.yours,
especially.when.it's.tempered.with.rage.has.been.like.a.benchmark.of.excellence.for.me.to.aim.for.
This.is.especially.so.since.I'm.increasingly.certain.slimebag.is.a.lot.cleverer.than.I.used.to.believe,think.he.is.unconsciously.
quite.smart.If.you.appear.stupid.you.can.get.away.with.blue.murderThankfully.he.is.not.THAT.clever,.or.he.would.be.REALLY.dangerous.

Way.too.much.self.serving.ego..
'
Worth watching if it is.ever shown over there.'

I.know.scallies.see.themselves.as.from.another.planet,.but.I.
didn't.think.Liverpool.was.that.far.from.London!.

Re.e-mail.address,.see.above..Be.great.to.hear.from.you.

Thanks.for.the.fascinating.pilot.info.What.a.relief.to.be.able.to.start.finding.that.all.the.'spirit'.stuff.which.for.too,long.has.
been.a.primary.concern.without.real,.possible.explanations.has.
simple.brain.explanations..(For.me)..
So.many.people.I'm.sharing.the.dmt/serotonin/pineal.gland
third.eye/tryptophan.info.with,.are.having.
exactly.the.same.reaction.
And.I.know.I'm.only.just.starting.out.down.this.route.
When.life.is.wonderful,.it's.truly.wonderful,
even.more.so.when.you.can.keep.the.dark.side.running.along,
in.parallel.
The.beauty.of.polarities.and.as.they.say,.dialectics......
Isn't.it.amazing.how.grand.you.can.sound.when.you.slip.in.the.odd.flash.word.or.phrase!

Going.to.miss.your.posts.like.mad.

PS.Apologies.for.the.dead.space.bar!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:24:10 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: hamzen
Subject: Jeez, i never realised you
Message:
were a Brit.

(BBC transmissions coming soon down south, I hear)

If you've posted new-agey stuff I must have missed it, and would probably have shouted at you. Sorry. Just don't call me 'scally', 'cos I was born in Leytonstone and raised on the Isle of Wight, ok? ;-)

Will keep in touch. All best.
Nigel

(Saw Dylan's '69 comeback and Hendrix's last festival gig '70. Eat dirt CD.)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:22:34 (EDT)
From: hamzter
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Jeez, i never realised you
Message:
'cos I.was born in Leytonstone'

And.I.was.born.in.Walthamstow!

Small.world.or.what!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 00:32:03 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Not forever, I hope...
Message:
Dear Nigel -

You wrote:
Over the last three or four posts here I feel like I have said everything I ever wanted to say about Maharaj Ji, and I really don’t want to discuss him any more.

I know the feeling. Sometimes I get so bored with M that I never want to think or talk about him again. Frankly, he IS boring. But then somebody posts on here that's having a hard time, or that has some good questions, and it's rejuvenating.

I also understand that you need to take a break, put the modem in the drawer again, and spend more time on other things in your life. But your posts are so clear and incisive (not to mention funny) that I hope you will keep posting occasionally. You have really helped many people on the forum extricate themselves from the mindwarp - myself included. Thanks much.

Lots of love,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 04:13:23 (EDT)
From: x
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Not forever, I hope...
Message:
Nigel,
I think your posts are among the finest on this here site. I for one, will miss your graceful assails and stirring oratory. Enjoy your break, but please don't stay away for too long.

With much respect x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 11:26:08 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Bye for now and thanks...
Message:
Nigel: Thanks... what more can I say? Don't be a stranger, ok?

:-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 23:42:58 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Mike, x, katie
Subject: You're too kind.
Message:
Thanks, and love to all of you. Nigel
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:14:18 (EDT)
From: HOLY SHIT!
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: PREMIE SITE URL
Message:
I have to stay anonymous, but here it is - http://www.enjoyinglife.org/
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:28:47 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: HOLY SHIT!
Subject: Very well done
Message:
I congratulate the webmasters of this site - it's very well designed, and obviously took a lot of effort and thought and talent. Good luck with it!

Regards from
Katie

P.S. Always happy to hear from Milivoj!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:34:35 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: HOLY SHIT!
Subject: PREMIE SITE URL
Message:
HS: Judging from what I see, it won't last a month before it's shut down. There is a page for 'conversations.' Uh, oh, that means premies are going to be allowed to 'talk' to each other.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 23:21:11 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: 10.MERCS.&.A.CIGAR
Subject: PREMIE SHITE URL
Message:
A

PO

FACED

OASIS

OF

SELF-RIGHTEOUS

CENSORSHIP
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 14:28:08 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: PREMIE SHITE URL
Message:
Ham: YEA and verily! Censorship is right! They deleted Brian's letter, too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 21:20:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: HOLY SHIT!
Subject: will they publish my letter?
Message:
Here's what I wrote:

'Hi Guys,

Congratulations on a really good-looking page. John, I am so sorry to hear about your wife yet how nice to have such a large brood. Five? That's incredible. Why it seems like just yesterday that Sally and Daniel, Deb and I and you and my cousin, Ben, went up to Universal Studios for their bogus tour. Remeber those days?

Anyway, I'm curious. Are you guys going to allow any critical input to enter whatever dialogues ensue here?

Last night I watched a video of Maharaji in Miami this past spring and he was quite emphatic about responsive communication. That is, people should try to communicate cleary. Directly. Yet so many people on the ex page have had the experience that he's the last person in the world to make himself available for questions. Know what I mean?

Anyway, I wonder what your policy's going to be in terms of 'free expression'. Do you even know yet? How about this letter? Will it get published?

Hi to Daniel and Sally. By the way, where's the little Canadian flag, eh?

Sincerely,

Jim Heller'

Think they'll publish it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 02:05:10 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: HOLY SHIT!
Subject: PREMIE SITE URL
Message:
My, it certainly is a PRETTY site! But I must say, I was quite shocked by the revisionist history about the littlest master; geez, I seem to remember that the little fella had another title back then. Seems strange that Mr. Charan Anand does not seem to remember that title either! But it is all so beautiful and they all now know who they are inside. Will they print Jim's letter? Well, maybe after a little editing (since they seem to have that power). Maybe they'll put up a link to our humble site!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 03:06:20 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Am I missing something?
Message:
I went back and read all the entries. God, I almost cried, it was so sweet. To think, it's been 96 years since our beloved Shri Daya Mata Ji's grandfather, Maharaji, first came to the west, spreading this beautiful Life (once called Knowledge)! Starting with a mere million at India Gate in Delhi, Maharaji soon built his family of love (now Love) into the thousands.

There are the words of the great Charanand. There are the reminisces of those First Ones who actually knew one another (not biblically, of course). There are the heartfelt pitches ofr alife without thought, a life without question. Call it life? No, call it Life!

Okay, seriously now, if you could see what Maharaji is actually like now, then read these premies talking about how amazing it was that, last time they saw him, Maharaji used words like 'fundamental' or 'simplicity'. Hell, he said something about 'getting back to basics' twice!

But what really did surprise me -- for real now -- is that the site obviously has Maharaji's blessing, doesn't it? How else to explain Charanand's contribution? Does this then mean that Maharaji's going to reverse himself net-wise? How, then, will he be able to discourage newbies from learning of his past, his real past?

Maybe he just don't give a fuck, you know? Maybe he's willing to just see how far he can stretch his premies' credulity.

My bet, though, is that it will all go the way of Keith and Bruce's dialogue over on the 'old' premie page. It's just impossible for these guys to discuss Maharaji without stumbling over all sorts of weird baggage, old and new.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 05:50:52 (EDT)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Jim
Subject: Am I missing something?
Message:
It's easy to squash doubts when you don't think. Right from when I first received K, I had a massive doubt and confusion, which never really went away.

It was; if Maharaji was the Lord, then how come he had supposedly been an ordinary child and his father had been the Lord? And why did the Lord have to wait until his father passed on before he became the Lord? It just never made sense and yet for years I just put this doubt into the background and disregarded it as something I couldn't understand with my rational mind. Also, since nobody else seemed to have this doubt, I thought it was probably not worth worrying about.

There's a kind of group consciousness thing amongst premies. You kind of make yourself fit in to it because you feel like you have to and your nagging doubts seem to be yours and yours alone. You wouldn't dare admit them to anyone.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Oct 01, 1998 at 15:53:36 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Sir D
Subject: NO, you didn't
Message:
Sir: JEEZ, I wish you had been around me and voiced that doubt. That was a BIG one for me, too. If you or I had voiced that doubt, I don't think we would have been alone, either. Of course, I can give you the stock premie response (of the time): Well, while god was inhabiting Sri M's body, Little M was an individual. When Sri M died, his 'spirit' merged with Little M (by little M's permission, of course) and Little M became BIG M, even though he really didn't want to be Big M. Got it????? Nah, me neither.... he he he.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 01:03:18 (EDT)
From: jethro
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: rajnish says prempal is hansji
Message:
Hi Mike

'Well, while god was inhabiting Sri M's body, Little M was an individual...'

I recently met an old frind who was one of the early devotees of rajnish. He said that rajnish told him that hansji was a great psychic who when he 'expired' entered the body of prempal......eeeer just thought I'd mention it.

regards jethro
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 10:43:59 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: jethro
Subject: See?
Message:
Jethro: I just can't win..... EVEN NON-premies think that's what happened. How can you argue/discuss a subject like that? he he he. ;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 11:54:19 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: jethro
Subject: A side-light
Message:
Jethro: Have you ever noticed how the people that are in the 'guru business' scratch each other's backs, so to speak. It's just like the regular business community: I'll do a little personal advertising for brand-x, in hopes that brand-x will validate my product, too. It's a chancy venture, but it usually pays off because the 'public' views it as an 'open' attitude by the owners of brand-y (e.g. I'll say M is a satguru, in hopes that he will return the favor and say that I am, too). How dim-witted do they think we are?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 03:13:46 (EDT)
From: x
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: PREMIE GARBAGE
Message:
This new premie site is very attractive and well put together. Superficially I am impressed with what they've done. However, as far as actual content goes it is(what a surprise) embarassingly empty and gutless.
I'm curious, do you think this crap is sanctioned by lard ass himself? It must be, right? Or are some renegade premies ballsy enough to do this on their own? I highly doubt that. This must be Rawatts way of competing with this site. He couldnt just abandon the net to us disgruntled ex's now, could he?
What a total white wash. The contrast between their sanitary, censored, garbage site and our open forum is really glaring. I mean here you can get on anonomously(if you prefer) or not, and really speak your MIND(pun intended) to your hearts content. I have a feeling that if the people in charge there dont like what you have to say, it won't appear. In other words, if you post anything other than benign meaningless drivel, they'll deem it negative and uninspiring and exclude it, unlike here where basically anything goes.
Even the name of their site, enjoyinglife, is typically condescending and passive aggressive. It reminds me of the classic premie defense 'I'm happy, are you?' Its funny how important it is to premies to validate themselves by imagining that people without knowledge are miserable and confused. I agree with Jim, new age, pollyannas are irritating and pathetic. If they want to make thmselves feel superior by putting down people who want to debate and criticize things that merit it, then fuck em'
Sincerely x
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 18:57:37 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: x
Subject: PREMIE GARBAGE
Message:
Yup, I agree.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:25:13 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: HOLY SHIT!
Subject: It's Not Real!
Message:
Your website is not real, why, because you're into censorship. Just like Maharaji. You will not premitt free expresion, Just like Maharaji. Looks to me like a bunch of religious premies trying to keep the faith with their zeal. These are the things that cults are made of; CENSORSHIP!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 07:35:59 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: It's Not Real!
Message:
Your website is not real, why, because you're into censorship. Just like Maharaji. You will not premitt free expresion, Just like Maharaji. Looks to me like a bunch of religious premies trying to keep the faith with their zeal. These are the things that cults are made of; CENSORSHIP!

By the way, whoever wrote that is not me! (anon) Would you mind adopting another pseudonym please. This site has already got one 'Anon' and that's me! Cheers. Keep posting though.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 13:53:07 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Katie or Brian - POlice!
Message:
Dear fake Anon,

Here's how it works. If you impersonate people here Katie or Brian will kick you off. It's the only rule I'm aware of. Oh yeah, no threats. Anyway, here's one warning from a civilian. Anon already gave you one. After this, it becomes a 'police' matter.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:47:16 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Malibu Mole where are you?
Message:
I'm still waiting to hear how MJ's party for his drone worker bees went. Did he give out gold trinkets again this year? What did he say. Please spill the beans.

I hope nobody got to you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 20:07:58 (EDT)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Malibu Mole where are you?
Message:
Hey gail......
your right this really is the best part for me seeing what is really going on ...hey mole what do you have for us.....dave
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 16:34:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Miami 1998 -- a review
Message:
I just saw a video of two nights of I-don't-know-what-to-call-it in Miami this last spring. I'm having a harder time using the s word these days (like the k word) and so would you if you saw this junk. Holy Macarel!

Anyway, Maharaji looks like a stunted, fatter and oilier version of Mao. His hair is receding, his gut is distending. His face is getting pouchier and smiles, when he forces them, mean putting a lot of muscles to work. You can see that alone is a real labour of love for the people of the world. But really, the guy looks MISERABLE!

So he starts by saying that things aren't that bad. No, really guys, they're not that bad. Hey, who'd have thought we'd even be at this beautiful place back when we were only at that other beautiful place? Mind you, there's no reason to have any goals (i.e. numbers) because goals are just black holes. Go figure!

Maharaji makes a couple of points that I could actually remember and are worth passing along. (Generally, he is the emptiest speaker I've ever heard bar none. The ol' satsang trick, of being in a 'state of grace' and opening one's mouth and simply reflecting such, is dead in the water.) One point was that education sucks. Kids should do what they need to to get through the system and that's about it. Take THAT, Mr. Mind!

Okay, that wasn't one of the points. It's minor compared to these:

1) Maharaji laughed at 'new age' trips that use cliched nature shots (roses, baby's hands, sunsets, rainbows) to suck people in. Holy shit! Hasn't this guy seen any of his own publications? Hasn't he seen his own slow-mo videos with eagles, etc.? Hasn't he heard his own drippy, sappy satsang? Hasn't he heard his daughter sing? Too much, eh?

2) Maharaji went on a long jag about people who don't answer questions directly. Like he'll ask someone where so-and-so is and they'll say 'well, fuckface, he was here an hour ago.' 'That's not what I asked!' He went on at length about this little communication problem people suffer from. People aren't complete and focused when they discuss with one another! If anyone of us ever gets a chance to ask the overgrown maggot anything, please brush up by watching this video. Hate to disappoint and all.

3) (bonus) -- I forgot, Maharaji made fun of 'Near Death Experiences' too. Sorry Bobby.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 16:53:47 (EDT)
From: Mc
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Miami 1998 -- a review
Message:
Jim, I'd love to hear more.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 17:02:33 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ahhhh from the heart
Message:
1) Maharaji laughed at 'new age' trips that use cliched nature shots (roses, baby's hands, sunsets, rainbows) to suck people in. Holy shit! Hasn't this guy seen any of his own publications? Hasn't he seen his own slow-movideos with eagles, etc.? Hasn't he heard his own drippy, sappy satsang? Hasn't he heard his daughter sing? Too much, eh?

Don't forget that poetry of his, Jim, especially when it's in tandem with the visuals. Ah the poetry. Just the very thought gives me tingles of sheer pleasure.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 17:02:59 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: JIM! This is great
Message:
Jim: We should take point number 2 (in exact quote form) and address it to every premie that visits. Hey, it's now his 'agya' to give us straight answers. I don't think I'm stretching for this one either!.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:02:06 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Did he talk about the net in
Message:
either of those two nights? If you don't have it, I guess I'll watch the last two nights. Hamzen wants the exact quotes about MJspeak re: the net.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:21:55 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Did he talk about the net in
Message:
Gail,

That's why I watched it and no he didn't. Big disappointment. Especially because we held off watching Waiting for Guffman -- HILARIOUS!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:25:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: No, I'm Jim, you're Gail
Message:
Sorry. That's just another example of how crazy these minds (this mind?) is/are. How complex the world is when we leave that place. How Maharaji has given us everything and we still don't know who we are. It's all in the heart. It's a virus of the heart.

Hey, that should be the name of his next program: Virus of the Heart.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 18:28:37 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh snore--I'll get on it. nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 19:24:13 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Gail/Jim
Subject: Jim&Gail
Message:
Appreciatedbothofyou
Jim,gremlinsinthemachinetonight,IpromiseyouitisnotttheeffectsofcontactwithKeith!Thanksfortheeffort
GailI'dlikethequoteformyselfbut
the
original
reason
for
wanting
it
has
vanished,
shenowacceptsthegreatslimeball
isaginthenet,
don'tdriveyourselfnuts
searchingforit,even
more
hours
wasted!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 21:43:57 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Jim&Gail
Message:
GlubGlubGlub
Get
a
new
keyboard
will
you
pal
?
:)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 22:02:08 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Duh......lkdmcoikjemnvc
Message:
Get.paid.tomorrow,.if.my.employers,.local.government,.decide.to.
pay.me.this.month!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:08:33 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Try vacuuming
Message:
Have you tried taking the back of your keyboard and vacuuming it out? Worked for me...

P.S. I am glad it's just your keyboard - at first I thought there was something seriously wrong with YOU.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 29, 1998 at 23:47:25 (EDT)
From: hamzter
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Try vacuuming
Message:
Trust.a.woman.to.come.up.with.a.really,practical,suggestion!

And.there.was.me.getting.paranoid.about.mac.worms.and.viruses!!

The.really.weird.one.Katie.is.that.it.happened.just.2.minutes.
before.I.went.on.the.new.premie.site!
I.got.this.short.rush.just.like.I.did.when.the.great.mariachi.the.pharisee.rolled.down.his.limo.window,which.took.me.back,bigtime.

I.still.crack.up.when.I.think.of.that.one!

But.seriously.afterwards.I.was.so.glad.it.happened.because.the,
post.I.was.going.to.send.to.'enjoying.this.life.I.wouldn't.have.
been.pleased.with.

So.there.WAS.grace.involved,.................MINE!.........
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 00:20:07 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: hamzter
Subject: Try vacuuming
Message:
Now I had to laugh. I can just see the tabloid headline:

'Ex-premie testifies: 'Maharaji broke my space bar'! Could he really be the Lord of the Universe after all?'

As our beloved webmaster would say: 'Sheesh!'

Seriously, glad you didn't make the post. I don't want to get into a flame war with the premies. A lot of people don't agree with me on this, but I don't have a quarrel with premie - my problem is with Maharaji. I also think Maharaji has tried very hard to isolate the premies from each other (not to mention from the rest of the world), and think it might be good if they did communicate with each other.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index