Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 43

From: Mar 20, 1999

To: Apr 5, 1999

Page: 2 Of: 5



Scott T. -:- Susan Richardson -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 09:03:43 (EST)
__Dupey -:- In a Nutshell -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 09:17:40 (EST)
__JW -:- Susan Richardson -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:05:59 (EST)
____Miloochie -:- Susan Richardson/Hubley -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:34:48 (EST)
______Jim -:- Nouri's a guru weenie -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:55:04 (EST)
________Runamok -:- Nouri's a guru weenie -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 01:40:22 (EST)
________JW -:- Nouri's a guru weenie -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 12:30:44 (EST)
____Scott T. -:- Susan Richardson -:- Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:26:31 (EST)
______Marshall -:- Susan Richardson -:- Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 11:51:56 (EST)
________cp -:- Susan Richardson --70 80's -:- Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 14:59:26 (EST)

chr -:- ashrams -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 07:04:14 (EST)
__JW -:- ashrams -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:59:10 (EST)
____Jim -:- Canadian ashrams -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:22:41 (EST)
______Peter -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 15:59:11 (EST)
________JHB -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:28:38 (EST)
__________Jethro -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 23:23:18 (EST)
____________ex-mug -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 05:03:34 (EST)
______________Jethro -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 01:59:29 (EST)
________________ex-mug -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 08:31:43 (EST)
__________________Jethro -:- Godfather -:- Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:29:13 (EST)
____________________JHB -:- George Blodwell? -:- Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 07:26:53 (EST)
____________________ex-mug -:- Godfather -:- Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 13:46:16 (EST)
________ex-mug -:- U.K. 'shrams -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 04:50:36 (EST)
____chr -:- ashrams -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 06:39:34 (EST)
______Zac -:- ashrams -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 09:22:54 (EST)
______Helen -:- ashrams -:- Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 13:40:17 (EST)
________chr -:- ashrams -:- Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 18:08:51 (EST)

SEFF -:- Thanks -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 00:27:13 (EST)
__cp -:- greetings -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 06:41:51 (EST)
____Zac -:- Welcome Seff -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 08:01:06 (EST)
__Victoria -:- To Zac, Seff, CP and all exes -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 11:15:55 (EST)
____david m -:- To Zac, Seff, CP and all exes -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 11:32:05 (EST)
______Helen -:- Thanks be for the forum -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:05:08 (EST)
__HALIP -:- You're welcome... -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:00:38 (EST)

The Dreamer -:- Caught in the act -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 13:57:36 (EST)
__The Dietician -:- Watch those late night -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 14:49:54 (EST)
____The Dreamer -:- But, it's not that simple -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 15:11:16 (EST)
______Mike -:- Wait a minute! -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:37:25 (EST)

larkin -:- lords of the universe (1-4) -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:26:09 (EST)
__Runamok -:- more limiericks for larkin -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:47:49 (EST)
__Robyn -:- lords of the universe (1-4) -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 11:18:04 (EST)
____larkin -:- Love you too, Robyn! -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:43:22 (EST)

Nim -:- Idolatry Let's Party On Time!! -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 22:53:49 (EST)
__Sir Dave -:- Idolatry Let's Party On Time!! -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 23:31:34 (EST)
____Helen -:- Idolatry Let's Party On Time!! -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:44:54 (EST)
__Nim -:- Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 01:04:22 (EST)
____bb -:- devotee hell -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:17:11 (EST)
______Bill Cooper -:- devotee hell -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:40:21 (EST)
________Jim -:- Yes, thanks, Nim -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 23:11:30 (EST)
__________Nim -:- Yes, thanks, Jim -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:14:01 (EST)
________Nim -:- devotee hell -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:04:29 (EST)
____Sir Dave -:- Maharaji is not a danger -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 04:50:18 (EST)
______Helen -:- Maharaji is not a danger -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:58:48 (EST)
______Runamok -:- Maharaji is a danger -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 00:52:19 (EST)
______Mike -:- Maharaji IS a danger -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:00:50 (EST)
____ISPY -:- Can I kiss your feet? No! -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 05:50:59 (EST)
______Miloochie -:- Can I kiss your feet? No! -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 17:02:53 (EST)
________ISPY -:- Can I kiss your feet Miloochie -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 05:28:31 (EST)
__________Mike -:- Bwah HA HA HA HA -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:05:03 (EST)
______Mike -:- Why should we let go? -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:46:36 (EST)
____Helen -:- Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:51:04 (EST)
______Marshall -:- Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 14:17:00 (EST)
________Helen -:- wouldn't wanna be ya -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 15:52:56 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- For YOU Nim! -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 08:07:55 (EST)
______Nim -:- For YOU Nim! -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 22:58:10 (EST)
__bb -:- Nim -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 20:17:22 (EST)
____Nim -:- bb -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:04:31 (EST)
______Jim -:- This raises an interesting q -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 23:23:44 (EST)
________Helen -:- flash cards -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 07:00:49 (EST)
______B-ook -:- aliamo -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 12:29:04 (EST)
________Nim -:- aliamo -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 20:26:38 (EST)
__________TJ -:- Amtext -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 20:58:01 (EST)
____________Nim -:- Amtext conceived in thievery -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 00:44:21 (EST)
______________TJ -:- Amtext conceived in thievery -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 03:43:33 (EST)
________________Nim -:- Amtext conceived in thievery -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:31:25 (EST)
__________________TJ -:- Rhino Copy -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:51:37 (EST)
____________________Nim -:- Rhino Copy -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 20:28:42 (EST)
____________________Runamok -:- Rhino Copy -:- Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:36:42 (EST)
______________________JW -:- Premie Commerce -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:09:08 (EST)
________________________TJ -:- Premie Commerce -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:03:55 (EST)
__________________________Victoria -:- Premie Commerce -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:11:22 (EST)
____________________________barney -:- premie census forms -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:23:58 (EST)
______________________________Victoria -:- premie census forms -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 09:27:16 (EST)
__________________________JW -:- Flower Sales -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:55:09 (EST)
________________________'>' Crowbill -:- Premie Commerce -:- Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 07:36:48 (EST)
______________________TJ -:- Rhino Copy -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:42:10 (EST)
________________________Runamok -:- Rhino Copy -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:52:57 (EST)
__________________________JW -:- Beer Sales -:- Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:10:30 (EST)
__________B-*>* -:- aliamo -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:23:36 (EST)
____________dv -:- Money meeting -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:31:18 (EST)

chr -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:03:15 (EST)
__gerry -:- Prosecuting Maharaji -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:20:09 (EST)
____gerry -:- caring enough to prosecute -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 20:58:26 (EST)
______cp -:- caring enough to prosecute -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:04:50 (EST)
________gerry -:- No prob, cp (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 10:49:46 (EST)
__L -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 18:03:33 (EST)
__JW -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 18:12:26 (EST)
____chr -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 19:34:42 (EST)
____billdha -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 21:17:38 (EST)
__Jerry -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 19:56:19 (EST)
____chr -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 21:48:05 (EST)
______Sir Dave -:- caring -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 23:21:36 (EST)

Jim -:- Maharaji's Indian blathering -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:21:17 (EST)
__Mike -:- Yeah, god forbid -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:54:39 (EST)
____L -:- Yeah, god forbid -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 12:39:18 (EST)
______Helen -:- Yeah, god forbid -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 22:31:09 (EST)
______to L -:- Yea god rabbiT -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 05:05:54 (EST)
__Victoria -:- Maharaji's Indian blathering -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 22:28:00 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Question to premies -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:17:42 (EST)
__Orlando -:- Question to JM -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 11:03:45 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Why read them? -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 13:11:21 (EST)
______Zac -:- A Seeker of Truth is -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 13:51:38 (EST)
________Jean-Michel -:- Zac you're cheating! -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:01:59 (EST)
__________Zac -:- Zac you're cheating! -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:11:26 (EST)
______Orlando -:- good point (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 16:00:40 (EST)
________Zac -:- Orlando! -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:18:34 (EST)
__________Orlando -:- ooops! -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 14:28:49 (EST)
__SHP -:- Question to premies -:- Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 23:43:43 (EST)

Jim -:- M's report from India -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 21:57:15 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- M's Lies from India -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 03:25:24 (EST)
____Billy -:- Good try, Jean-Michel -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 04:19:06 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- You're wrong -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:43:07 (EST)
________JHB -:- Wait for it..... -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:06 (EST)
__________Jean-Michel -:- Then how come -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:51:49 (EST)
__________Jean-Michel -:- You're right! of course... -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 06:28:03 (EST)
____Sir Dave -:- M's Lies from India -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:25:07 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- True -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:04 (EST)
__Jerry -:- M's report from India -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 09:21:10 (EST)
____Victoria -:- M's report from India -:- Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 22:49:43 (EST)


Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 09:03:43 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Susan Richardson
Message:
Hi:

Saw Susan Richardson on a news magazine show last night (Sunday), recounting the tale of drugs and depression she went through in the 70s during and after her 'Eight Is Enough' gig. She was a regular satsang contributor at Larchmont in L.A. during the mid-seventies, and I can vividly recall her talking when she got her first TV commercial, before she became a member of Dick Van Patten's cast. (It was a toilet paper commercial.) Of course she attributed that break to GMJ at the time. I wonder if she attributes any of her subsequent problems to GMJ?

-Scott
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 09:17:40 (EST)
From: Dupey
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: In a Nutshell
Message:
Yeah-that about sums it up
positive=thanks lord
negative=what's wrong with me

Reminds me of old song:

'oh i got drunk and thrown in jail-
Goo Mirage JI would not pay my bail'
(or something like that)
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:05:59 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Susan Richardson
Message:
There was a Susan Hubley (sp?) who lived in the ashram in New York and Miami and also did television commercials -- I remember there was one for cough medicine. Anyhow, she was specifically brought from NY to Miami to work there, supposedly as a 'big fish in a small pond.' She was making about $70 grand a year doing commercials, which was quite a bit in the late 70s, but I don't think her career every took off in Florida. I assume these are different 'Susans.'
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:34:48 (EST)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Susan Richardson/Hubley
Message:
Yeah, they are two different people (actresses). Anyone know if actor Michael Nouri (sp?) became an ex?

Miloochie
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:55:04 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Miloochie
Subject: Nouri's a guru weenie
Message:
Someone found and directed us to a Michale Nouri site last year (hey, it might have been me! I can't recall.) There, in an interview, he espouses k-lite with thinly veiled tribute to the fat, greasy worm of Mailbu. One thing surprisingly absent from his site are the lyrics to his cult classis, And it is Divine Selling 'And it is Divine'.
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 01:40:22 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nouri's a guru weenie
Message:
Maybe that's why his movies are so lame.
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 12:30:44 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nouri's a guru weenie
Message:
Jim,

I think Nouri is an example of a premie who never sacrificed anything to follow Maharaji. He just went on with his acting career and having fun but and held on to the image of Maharaji. Having a guru or having some seemingly esoteric spritual practice is kind of trendy in Hollywood circles and that is about Nouri's level of involvement.

I remember in the late 70s, 'pre-Flashdance,' Nouri's acting career was sputtering. He came to Chicago doing a play called 'Nefertiti' that closed after about 3 weeks. However, while he was there, he came to satsang at the ashram (once), and gave 'Nouri-sang' or maybe 'celebrity-sang.' I remember he mentioned the depravity of the show business community and how many women wanted to have sex with him, all under the guise of talking about the 'craziness' of 'the world' in contrast to knowledge. Then he proceeded to have one-night-stand affairs with a couple of premies in the community and he never came back to satsang. I'm sure for him personally being a premie has been basically a good time because none of the rules applied to him.

I think there are a number of other, rich, jet-set premies, who M allows to hang out around him, that are involved in the same way. They feel privileged, sit in the front row, get invited to the residence and are likely having a nice time. Unfortunately, the vast majority of premies don't get such treatment. In exchange, Maharaji and the premies trot them out as examples of 'normal' and 'successful' people who are premies in the age of knowlege-lite.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:26:31 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Susan Richardson
Message:
Joe:

Susan Richardson was that cute blonde on Dick Van Patten's 'Eight Is Enough' TV series. She now lives in a trailer park in her midwest home town, and from her comments it's unlikely she is still a 'believer.'

-Scott
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 11:51:56 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Susan Richardson
Message:
As kind of a joke I subscribed my girlfriend to The Star and The Globe. You have to be careful, because these tabloids can become addictive. Anyway they both had articles about Susan Richardson about a month ago and basically she's broke and things aren't going too well for her. I guess if she had internet access in her trailer we could expect to hear from her. I'll bet her Journey would be interesting to read.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 14:59:26 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Susan Richardson --70 80's
Message:
ahem--- has the forum had discussions on how much of the crap that happened while in the cult also was also the effect of living in crazy times. I mean the 70 and 80 were pretty bananas for the rest of the world. My pemmie circles were steeped in drug use and loose sex. But he rest of the populace was likewise.
I guess the fact that I was lobotomized by the cult stuff added to the dysfuction.
Maybe I just answered my own question.

Dear Susan-- Hi. Jump in when the jump rope is 1/3 around the circle. the song goes 'A- my name is Alice, My husbands name is Alfred---B -my name is Beatrice my husbands name is Bert------''
No Takies. No take-out coffee cups while jumping double.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 07:04:14 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: ashrams
Message:
Hi JW,
I've only just managed to read your post on ashrams re differences in various places. Its about to fall off the edge, so I've started a new thread. I lived in several ashrams, in two different counries. What I found most noticable were changes from year to year, rather than place to place. ( Miami in 79 and 80 was obviously fairly unique. At one stage the ashram I lived in was 2 hotel rooms. All of us were doing full time service with different routines, so no regular schedule could be kept.) 73-75 were strange but fun, in a neurotic sort of way. 77-78 were the naive devotion years. 79 , we all had to split into brothers and sisters houses. Living in an all male ashram was tedious and drab. 80- a kind of freedom and rebellion crept in. 81-82 tried to curb this with a purge and artificial set ups of the ideal ashram with both brothers and sisters again. Looking back , it was like being in a twilight zone- 10 years of my life lost in a crazy void.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:59:10 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: ashrams
Message:
I also noticed the year-to-year changes, and I guess I would pretty much agree with you about those phases, although I never noticed any 'freedom and rebellion' around 1980, but I all-to-clearly remember the ashram inquisition of 1981, which was apparently an attempt to weed out the unworthy or un-surrendered premies. This was the most 'kafkaesque' period because, as you said, the artificial ideal was just in some initiator's head, but Maharaji had apparently given them license to inflict it on everyone based on their own whims.

At least from the perspective of an ashram housefather and community coordinator, I found the separation of the ashrams by gender made things a whole lot easier. Maybe after all the intensity of some of the sisters, we were ready for some 'tedious and drab.'

It really was a twilight zone existence. I really liked a lot of the premies I lived with -- most were very nice, very sincere people, and some of them were very talented. The problem was it was a claustraphobic, unnatural situation, and many people wasted their skills, time and emotions in an attempt to make themselves available to serve the 'living lord.' And, of course, because he never cared on whit about them, it was entirely unworthy of that kind of devotion and sacrifice.

So, did you see no difference in the two countries regarding the ashrams?
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:22:41 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Canadian ashrams
Message:
It's a hackneyed truism that I nevertheless accept wholeheartedly that Canada's kind of middling between The U.S. and Britian culturally. I think the ashrams reflected this. We Canucks were never as loose as you Americans. I remember being amazed at how quickly you all started flirting with 'the world' again after Maharaji got married (Amherst, '74) or how earnestly you took up the crazy 'workshop' banner with such ridiculous, fake corporate zeal in 76.

But then we were never quite as gung ho kamikaze as the Brits either, what with their fanatical WPC ethos and bizarre 'jumbling' mentality.

No, we Canadians were just good premies. Michael Dettmers, Willie Svob, Andy Pearl, David Goulet. Gary Ockendon, of course. Oh, alright, Anne Johnston. But then again, Stuart McDougall. (Mind you, Brian McDermott.)
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 15:59:11 (EST)
From: Peter
Email: None
To: Jim and all
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
How about this guy Glen Whitaker who's head hancho in U.K. Elan Vital. I've heard he is/was a little Hitler. He even did a thesis on the life of Hitler at Oxford or so I was told.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:28:38 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Peter
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
It was almost impossible not to like Glen in the old days. His satsangs at the Palace of Peace were legendary. M's satsangs are carefully crafted logical arguments in comparison. His were pure stream of consciousness garbage. Not a single coherent sentence was uttered. For some reason, we loved him for this. It is amazing that he's kept the same job for the last 27 years.

John.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 23:23:18 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
'It is amazing that he's kept the same job for the last 27 years'
If you are talking about 'service' it's not strictly true. He left for a while when he got married to a really nice young lady(south american I think). I should know becuase I was a coordinator at the time and Glen was living in Leigham Court Rd premie house as a mere community premie.
I plead guilty to bringing him back 'into service'.

He always hides behind the 'Maharaji said' excuse for things. I could write more but have to go and chuck-up(borrowed from American English).

Regards Jethro
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 05:03:34 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
Hi Jethro

Glen has always reminded me of Ken Livingstone, the politician -
in many ways the organisation in the '70s (maybe now) was like the GLC, which of course was Livingstone's power-base in the '80s.
Elan Vital is Whitaker's power-base, and perhaps we start to hit the nail on the head by looking at the whole of BM's trip in terms of 'Hitler and mini-Hitlers'. I believe that BM was, and is, into a gigantic power trip, and the good politicians within his authoritarian hierarchy manipulate their way through it in order to satisfy power lust, which might explain how Glen has held his job for the last 27 years. Just a theory.

ex-
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 01:59:29 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: ex-mug
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
Hi ex-mug :>)
Isn't the warm weather great!

Your post reminded me of the fact that many of the PAMs and honchos were really into 'The Godfather' as an example of devotion. They actually idolised the mobs actions.
Whne I moved into a particular ashram(Acton), I was pleasantly surprised to find books there. When I looked at them I foound out that they were all about the workings of The Waffen SS.When I asked 'The General' (as the house father was affectionately known) about the books, he explained to me that all the premies in this ashram do direct service or serve those doing direct service...so they can read anything....particularly books showing dedication and devotion.

Take care Jethro
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 08:31:43 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
hi Jethro

I remember BM saying something like, 'I am your Godfather' :)
Also, did you ever hear the story of Raja Ji meeting with one of the godfathers of the big five mafioso families?
If it's true, he was told that BM had better watch out, because an organisation's power was it's personel, and quite a few 'soldiers' were getting knowledge at that time.
There was a rumour that BM was quite into the godfather trip in the '70s.

all the best

ex-
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:29:13 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: ex-mug
Subject: Godfather
Message:
Do you remember when he took all the ashramees to a circus? When he was sitting there in his black evening suit and he advised george Blodwell not to trust the guy with the nails just by giving him a 'knowing nod'.

I have at least one 'family picture' of 'the family' which is a Bonnie & Clyde type photo.

Sheeeesh what a load of crap!!!!

Love from Jethro
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 07:26:53 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: George Blodwell?
Message:
Anyone know what happened to George? Last I heard (early 80s?) he went to LA (I think) and was mixing in pop star circles, and was the CentreFold in PlayGirl or some such magazine.

John.
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 13:46:16 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Godfather
Message:
Dear Jethro

'Circus' just about sums up BM's whole sham :)

have fun!

ex-
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 04:50:36 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Peter
Subject: U.K. 'shrams
Message:
I remember 1974, living in the ashram, and we had this ashram manual laid on us. One directive was that no marmalade, jam etc was allowed in the ashram - poverty, chastity and obedience (and food and sleep deprivation) were the norm.
Anyhow, one night I had to do some service in London, and ended up staying at Glen Whitaker's ashram, and, surprise,surprise, the kitchen cupboards were full to overflowing with every type of marmalade, jam etc.... like Harrod's food hall :)

ex-
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 06:39:34 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: ashrams
Message:
I really didn't notice much difference between the two counries. I had some close friends in the ashram too -most of the premies were remarkably sincere. One thing I noticed everywhere was this phenomenon of 'large' sisters and skinny brothers- either a result of dietary abnormalities or perhaps a genetic malfunction due to lack of sleep and sex.
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 09:22:54 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: ashrams
Message:
The thinner sisters had other offers!
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 13:40:17 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: ashrams
Message:
Maybe those larger sisters were feeding their souls, turning to food to drown their sorrows & all their repressed feelings. Just a thought.
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 18:08:51 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: ashrams
Message:
It's a fairly well known generalisation that when males are stressed ,they stop eating and when females are stressed they eat more. This was the most likely reason, although lack of protein also has different effects on the male and female metabolisms. BTW there were plenty of sisters who weren't large, it was just something that overall I noticed. I was joking about the genetic abnormalities due to lack of sex.....then again anything was possible in the weird and wonderful world of the ashram. Seriously though, I was really pissed off with the comment that Nimrod atributed to M at the amtext party, that very few premies kept the ashram vows. I know that M was joking, but it reflects his attitude. The great majority of ashram premies I knew were very sincere and worked their insides out for M and his meglomaniacal trip. I mean, what the fuck does he think we were in there for- it was certainly no joy ride.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 00:27:13 (EST)
From: SEFF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks
Message:
I have been reading this website off and on for a few months now, since about the middle of January. Reading it has been like food to a starving person. I can't get enough of it. So many of the things that are expressed here I have felt for a long time but never had anyone I could talk to about it and I always just repressed it. I just said to myself that it was my mind and all the rest of the bullshit Maharaji laid on us. Now I know my feelings were true and what a load of crap I have been buying into for so long. I'm starting to feel like a real person again.

Someone said something about 'faith' in another thread. Well, I think 'faith' is what kept me miserable, believing in Maharaji and putting up with him and his bizarre organization and followers for about 20 years. If that is what 'faith' is, something that makes you dismiss and distrust your own feelings and better judgments, then I want no part of it. And regarding the 'gift' he supposedly gave me, well, he can have it back if he wants it. But will he give me back the years I wasted following him, and repair the damage I did to my psyche, my spirit, my friends, my family, my children?

Thanks to everyone who has put energy into operating this website. I know I'm not the only one who has gotten the cobwebs cleared out of my brain by reading it. Thanks again.

I will continue reading the forum, but my husband is still a premie (although I don't know for how long) so I have to remain anonymous at least for awhile and I may not be able to post much. But we aware that I am here!
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 06:41:51 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: SEFF
Subject: greetings
Message:
hi seff- I did the same thing. Observed for a long time, drinking in the resolutions to problems stemming from the life of a premie. I still remain anonymous- and in a way this helps me to interact more efectively with the premies that I know.

If I revealed who I am in the forum, I could lose the thin thread of influence I have with them.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 08:01:06 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Seff
Subject: Welcome Seff
Message:
Isn't it nice to find a place that makes sense after 20-25 years of what the hell is going on?

I started reading this forum in November and it doesn't take long if you are willing to THINK! If not....,

Regarding your spouse. My girlfriend listened to lots of videos, went to see M several times with me, endured the aspirant process politely and when push came to shove said this isn't for her. Then she saw me at the computer reading this page. She'd come in sit down read a few X er posts with me laugh and say 'that's what I believe'. Or she might go walking by and read the post title Maharaji's Indian Blatherings and laugh. She didn't want to tell me she thought the M trip was foolish. Ya know male ego and all, so she was able to do it politely through the X page. Thought I'd relate that. Good Luck!
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 11:15:55 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: SEFF
Subject: To Zac, Seff, CP and all exes
Message:
Hi,

I've lurked here too and have found something valuable...although I was only involved for a couple of years and left it nearly 20 years ago. I had lots of friendly therapy (talking with my friends) and a little bit of professional therapy...this helped immensely (as opposed to talking in circles with premie friends, premie acquaintances, mahatma-initiators, and the completely one-way conversation I had with gmj who I imagined was listening to my heart). I never even tried to send him a letter. (And after hearing his callous responses to premie-mail I am so glad I didn't!) I truly believed that not a leaf fell from a tree, etc., etc. and so I knew that our 'connection' was so strong that I could ask with an open heart and then the door would be opened to me. Needless to say...nobody was home to answer the door.

This forum allows for sharing the common experiences with people who have been there and so truly understand. Twenty years ago, going through it with my wonderful friends cannot compare to the value of this forum, since so much of what happened was genuinely beyond their scope. It helped in the sense that their honest, untainted reactions to the idiocy of DLM showed me a more normal response to life with knowledge. On the other hand, I was able to connect with a few ex-scientologists, ex-rajneeshers, ex-gurunoids of a different but similar flavor. Still, nothing compares to sharing in the company of ex-premies, in the company of real truth and understanding.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, thanks for being here and sharing and listening.

Victoria
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 11:32:05 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: To Zac, Seff, CP and all exes
Message:
Hey Victoria....I must commend you on your post...very elequently stated...Amen you hit the nail right on the head..Me i am more of a lurker than a poster,,,and this forum has helped me emencely..Keep up the good work....peace....david m
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:05:08 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Victoria & Seff
Subject: Thanks be for the forum
Message:
I agree with what everyone on this thread has said. The forum has helped me tremendously and because of it I have entered a real growth phase in my life. You are right, there is no substitute for the group support of others who have gone through a similar experience--kind of like combat buddies. Glad you all are here.
Love
Helen
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:00:38 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: SEFF
Subject: You're welcome...
Message:
in the true sense of the words, dear Seff

So, welcome aboard. You're not alone feeling those feelings, thinking those thoughts. I just hope, though, that you're coming to terms with your entanglement with M and EV will not put any strain on you marriage to your premie hubbie, but from what you wrote, it looks like he's about to come around as well.

Keep on visiting, and I'll be looking forward to reading your posts whenever you do post.

Love

Happy and living in Paris
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 13:57:36 (EST)
From: The Dreamer
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Caught in the act
Message:
I had a very interesting service as The Residence. Next to Maharaji's office was a room with one of those old arcade games that have little stuffed dolls and a claw device that you maneuver over the dolls and try to pick them up and then navigate the prize to the exit chute. It was my service whenever Maharaji was in his office to work the game and when I successfully positioned the doll over the exit chute I was to press a button that summoned Maharaji and then I was to leave the room and wait.

Maharaji would then enter the room and press the release button as he shouted in glee and victory. He would take the doll and leave.

Unfortunately, it had been discovered that in my spare time at home I had been surfing the internet and had been lurking on www.ex-premie.org. I was in the arcade room doing my service when an army of premies led by Raja Ji stormed in. These were not your ordinary premies, mind you. They were the highest of the high, the most exalted PAMs. Joan Apter, Gary ???, Dettmers, Milky Cole, etc. They were dressed in colorful satin outfits as if attending a masquerade ball. They wore not sunglasses, but regular glasses studded with rhinestones. And I could have sworn that Elton John was amongst them.

Fortunately, I did not notice Jagdeo being with them and I relaxed my guard when Raja Ji grabbed me from behind and pressed a knife hard against my juglar and whispered in my ear, 'We know what you've been doing.'

I protested to Raja Ji that it was an innocent mistake and I was not the mole. He was understanding and whispered that it was out of his control. The exalted PAM vigilantes were smelling blood, their moment had come.

'Road trip to the desert!' they all cried.
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 14:49:54 (EST)
From: The Dietician
Email: None
To: The Dreamer
Subject: Watch those late night
Message:
sub sandwiches, they'll do it every time.
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 15:11:16 (EST)
From: The Dreamer
Email: None
To: The Dietician
Subject: But, it's not that simple
Message:
These dreams only come to me when I fall asleep while practicing Mahraji's Knowledge in my meditation hall (spare bedroom) complete with lifesize framed picture purchased at Long Beach '96, throne with plush chair, and, the kicker sure to make any premie jealous, a certifed pair of surplused Gucci loafers that Our Lord wore in first two weeks of June of 1987 while vacationing in Bali.

You have your submarine sandwich dreams and then you've got your Dr. Scholl's Odor Eater dreams! Take your pick, Dietician! Which one is it gonna be? I'll stand by my Man no matter what He does to me in life or in dream.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:37:25 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: The Dreamer
Subject: Wait a minute!
Message:
Dreamer: Maybe you are really on to something here. Saying that you'll 'stand by him no matter what' rings alot of bells.

Maybe those premies that 'know' they are being hoodwinked are like the spouse that can't get out of an abusive relationship. Somehow wishing/hoping for that 'corrective' miracle that will make everything better. Somehow hoping that M will stop the abuse and will mitigate it with a decent explanation. Somehow hoping that they really are on the right track, despite all evidence to the contrary. What these guys need to know is that those relationships NEVER get better, they NEVER improve, they ALWAYS get worse! Anyone care to dispute this????

Stage left: crickets rubbing their wings in the background, otherwise dead silence....

Stage center: I thought not!
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:26:09 (EST)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: lords of the universe (1-4)
Message:
an unsavoury habit of krishna's
was shagging his lady parishioners
with twinkling eye
he'd spin 'em the lie
it would make them true holy practitioners

there once was a godhead named brahma
who, to test out the theory of karma,
transmigrated below
in the form of a crow
and got shot in the balls by the farmer

prem rawat (a son of shri hans)
tried to teach his devotees to dance
you'd maybe forgive him
his poor sense of rhythm
but never those big yellow pants

satpal - he's the tubby one's sibling
had a childhood of envy and quibbling
till divine light mission
hit nuclear fission
since when his toes too are for nibbling
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:47:49 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: larkin
Subject: more limiericks for larkin
Message:
There once was a savior named Jesus,
for whom we drink wine, bread, and no cheeses.
To find a good man today,
amongst his followers I'll say,
when at the haystack
be prepared to use tweeers.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 11:18:04 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: larkin
Subject: lords of the universe (1-4)
Message:
Dearest Larkin,
You, or rather one of your counterparts have been on my mind a lot lately. I didn't want to email or call because I thought maybe you were happily getting on with it and I didn't want to be the hook that brought you back prematurely. Anyway good to see you. I guess I was just being a parinoid clown! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:43:22 (EST)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Robyn
Subject: Love you too, Robyn!
Message:
Thanks :-)
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 22:53:49 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Idolatry Let's Party On Time!!
Message:
In response to the overwhelming demand for more info on the Amtext party I attended, let us continue.
So, we've just had our little Wadi Sue freak out episode and shortly thereafter once all the guests had arrived ...its now PRECISELY 4:00pm and the gates to the residence with the sculpted swan on top of one of them, finally open.
We walk through the open gates into the courtyard, and before anything else, there's yet another obligatory sign in. This is by now our third sign in along with another two roll calls earlier on in the day. But what the heck I wasn't going to let it bother me, here I was at MJ's res at last.
The first thing that I felt was truly overpowering is the incredible view that exists there of the ocean from such a high altitude, and of those Malibu hills. Its breathtaking at first and it took me a while to fully absorb.
There was food offered: sandwiches, hors d'ouevres, cake and desert, fruit punch, tea and coffe, tchai as well of course, stuff like quiche... and I hope they forgive me at the residence if I forgot anything. I personally must have taken care of half the cucumber sandwiches myself.They were my favorite.
Ok enough about food:)
Its time for MJ to arrive, and by now we're all seated . M is introduced to us by Chuck Nathan (Amtext president) as the 'sole beneficial owner of Amtext'
M comes on stage as we all rise to greet him. The words he spoke to us were as follows(to the best of my recollection)
I hope you are all well, well-fed in any case(m seems to laugh at his own funny, so everyone else does as well)
I wanted you to be here today, so I can thank you for the work that you do. Its important to me. It gives me the means to get over the power curve, so I can have the freedom to get things done.(m's way of saying 'thank you for seeing to it that I don't have to work for a living')
He then held up a sample of the little trinkets he was about to give us, an 8 inch green marble like pyramid, with a watch embedded on one side, and an inscription on another reading
Presented TO
Nimrod Nimowicz (well you know)

In Appreciation of
Your Effort and Achievement

May 11, 1996

AMTEXT
The other two sides are just plain imitation green marble. I would estimate their value at no more than $20 US .
Holding one up MJ said
I have these to give to you. I wanted to give you something nice..Had I left it up to Chuck, you guys would probably be getting pizza from Chuckie Cheese(everybody including m and Chuck laughing at m's latest funny, but for alot of premies present its a genuine cathartic kind of a laugh , because there are alot of them who really hate Chuck Nathan).
And then the award, or trophy, or gift giving ceremony began. I've already described it in some detail. Basically all the Amtext premie buyers and office management team were given awards by m, who was standing on a mildly elevated platform, so that no one he would give a gift to, would be taller than him. Each person, or in quite a few cases, husband and wife buyers,were called up by Chuck Nathan, who presided as master of ceremonies.
I remember MJ having alot of fun with the married buyers.
He laughingly asked almost all of them the same question;
Who wears the pants?
And of course every time we would overhear m asking a married buyer couple this same question, we all laughed each and everytime. I think he asked it at least five times. The same question: who wears the pants? I'll leave this with you as is ,and say no more.... ok... I'm beginning to feel a little weazy here. I think its time to move on.
The award ceremony lasted around 45 minutes and M left us to go into the house. Probably to get a glass a water . Apparently drinking a glass of water is a very difficult task for MJ to perform in public, even at an intimate gathering at his own house. Or maybe he went in to have a pee? Who cares??
And so I'll send this off to you guys, have my own glass of water and a pee.
But don't go away, because just like m came back to the party so will I!! And guess whats next kiddies?:):)
When I come back, its time for....
Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet???:):):)
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 23:31:34 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Idolatry Let's Party On Time!!
Message:
Come on, say what you mean - he couldn't go for more than 45 minutes without a pull on a Marlborough. In the privacy of his own house, of course, lest his devotees got wind that he wasn't the Lord.

Good story though. Amazing insight into how he holds his empire together. How many people could get away with being given a million Dollars each year and just give a cheap plastic pyramid back as a 'Thank you'?
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:44:54 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Idolatry Let's Party On Time!!
Message:
LOve the very British spelling of 'Marlboro' Sir D!! Marlboros are from macho cowboy country, not from Windsor castle, dude!
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 01:04:22 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet
Message:
So now m returns from inside the house to the court yard, and with the exception of some who are already close to him there's a rush towards MJ, people scurrying into position, as the 150 people in attendence form a semi circle around our beloved Boss and Master.
At first there's a rather prolonged silence. It was as if no one wanted to be the first to speak to MJ. He was gazing rather meditatively in the direction of the new multi media studio, which was then covered by drapes as it was almost, but still not finally completed.
That GAZE in the direction of the studio was another way of m's to let us now our work was important to him, because like the rest of the residence it was built with a good chunck of Amtext money, and we all knew it.
Finally its time to break the silence. Now what do you think are the first words spoken to MJ?
There's this hippy looking buyer, in his mid 40's lets say, who finally decides he's going to be the one who speaks to MJ... and what does he say?
Now Bill Cooper, you asked me the question 'what was it like to be with MJ in a normal social situation? ' I'll allow you yourself to be the judge if the following qualifies as a 'normal social situation'.
This guy says to MJ as follows:
You know Maharaji...just seeing you stand there like that...its just so incredible, its such a tease ...and I was hoping ... that is if you don't mind... if you would want to give us your darshan... and let me kiss those lotus feet again... I'm just dying for them.
MJ actually seemed to blush a little, but he smiled just the same.
But now you have quite a few people chiming in 'yes, yes Maharaji, darshan Maharaji, oooh aaah Maharaji'. There's also this one little girl, well actually she was a lady, probably in her forties ,but somehow sitting crosslegged on the resident grounds in front of MJ, she definitely looked like a little girl.
She pipes in as follows in a really little girl sounding voice:
Maharaji, Do you remember Amherst, when you gave darshan in that golf cart?...Well, you passed by so fast I only got to kiss one foot!
MJ laughed and asked her with this cat swallowing the canary look on his face,
O ya... which foot?
Everyone roared in laughter and needless to say MJ looked quite content with himself.
Now its time for Sheldon, the bookbuyer turned lawyer, a rather stout fellow with curly hair, distinguishing himself with his nerdy bow tie. He makes around one shipment a year to Amtext, just so he can get on the invite list to these parties.
He now chimes in :
Maharaji,you know we're a close knit group here... most of us have been in the ashram and we know how to keep our vows(m and everyone laugh pretty hard at the vows part)... so if you'd like to give us darshan , you can be sure that we'll keep it a secret.
MJ, really laughing at this point replies:
If you were in the ashram and kept your vows then you are part of an EXTREME minority.
Finally after around ten minutes of this kind of stuff,with the darshan requests finally dying down MJ says,
Well its a possibility... but not for today, maybe some other time
and decides to leave it at that.
O there was more to our informal chat with m. He stayed out with us for over an hour. There were other questions and interesting stuff said by m. Some of it I've already reported on these pages.
BUT IMHHO, this was nothing short of a meeting between a man who had set himself up as a living idol, and a select group of his worshippers.
It was an afternoon tea party of idolatry. And if idolatry is your cup of tea...then there can be no greater honor for a pwk as to be so honored by MJ with an invitation to such a party.
I felt honored, incredibly so. It was the greatest moment of my premie life.
And yet it was in the very way this informal chat began, the very first subject raised, basically ... 'Hey Boss , can I kiss your feet?' that I saw what this gathering, as what ANY premie gathering with m is really all about.
ITS ABOUT IDOL WORSHIP, STUPID!(sorry guys, I'm speaking to myself here:)
Always has been , and always will be!
And idol worship does not a normal social situation make!
Never has, never will!
It WAS the greatest moment of my life as a premie, but it was also the moment that would spell the beginning of the end of my premie life. The end for myself, was then only two years away.
As hard as I tried to succeed at it, in the end I had no choice but to accept that Maharaji's trip is idolatry, and idolatry is
not for me.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:17:11 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: devotee hell
Message:
Thanks Nim,
That is revealing stuff.
You nailed the idolatry issue.
I was in the same programmed state
The repeated check points, good grief.
Womans rights be damned, what kind of enlightened
comment is the 'pants'?
What wit, 'which foot'. He can't play lord god well.
He pretends to the extent his money will allow.
Thanks for telling the story. If you remember any more
post away!
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:40:21 (EST)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: devotee hell
Message:
Great story Nim, thanks.

When I read stories like this, I sort of merge them into this movie about the real maharaji played by Bob Hoskins as the dried out drunk, with wild mood swings lord of the universe type.

Thanks

Bill
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 23:11:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Yes, thanks, Nim
Message:
Nim,

That was really well told. I hope your tale finds a place amongst Rodger's darshan stories. And yes, Bob Hoskins is indeed the man to play the little puke. It's not the looks so much as the smirk. I know he can do it.

I have a little daydream of being at a meeting like that and not acting as expected. It's a fantasy that my old friend Bob Kirby acted out once. He was at a party at Maharaji's (Marolyn's birthday?) in the late eighties when Maharaji offered him cake. Bob, who already had a pretty strong hate on for the creep, but went to the party all the same, said no. Maharaji insisted and everyone more or less froze while the two of them stared each other down. Bob won. That is, he didn't take the cake.

I'd like to have been there. Maybe some lurker was. Anybody?
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:14:01 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, thanks, Jim
Message:
I'd hate to be in the Bob's Kirby place, especially these days. I really fear what I could end up doing with that cake.
Good to have you back:)
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:04:29 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: devotee hell
Message:
When I read stories like this, I sort of merge them into this movie about the real maharaji played by Bob Hoskins as the dried out drunk, with wild mood swings lord of the universe type.
But I tell you Bill, the m at this party was no dried out drunk with mood swings.
I could have sworn to you that he was the epitome of peace and serenity, the epitome of love and joy and all these beautiful things we were hoping to get from our involvement with m and k.
Thats the show he's there to put on at these parties, and he IS the consumate showman.
And if it means taking two hours of his time every two years, to hang out with these premies, and give them THAT luv, THAT appreciation, That inspiration to carry on for another two years of headfuckery, until the next party when m will AGAIN make it all better ... so that the cycle of abuse continues on the part of Chuck Nathan, the Brogans, and the Amtext staff for another two years until the next party... and on and on it goes... well he's certainly willing to do that.
He's allowing his presence, a presence which I at least WANTED to BELIEVE was divine... and I think I may have actually believed it to some extent that it WAS divine,... and he's allowing this ''divine presence' to be used to legitimize and sooth over the effects of less than divine tactics on the part of his premie management team in its relatioship to premie buyers.
He allows his presence to be used to legitimize headfuckery for the purpose of advancing his own interests,...and that pisses me off.
I find him to be the ultimate in speciousness.
Ya, that is devotee hell.
Thank you Mr. Cooper.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 04:50:18 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Nim
Subject: Maharaji is not a danger
Message:
Unless you believe in him, that is. The impression I get after reading so much about Maharaji and also from the few close-up meetings with him is that his bark is worse than his bite.

I'd just like to express to any fence sitters here that in my considered opinion, MAHARAJI IS NOT DANGEROUS and if you want to leave him, slag him off, ridicule him or just quietly forget about him - nothing bad is going to happen to you.

He is the sort of guy who will spread the bullshit as far and as wide as people let him. But if they don't let him he does not retaliate but just calls it a day.

I guess I've learned one thing about Maharaji that is a good quality; he is not vindictive or revenge seeking. He knows the limits of his bullshit spreading and he understands when he's gone too far. He will take things as far as he can or people let him. I think that rather than being excessively cruel and uncaring, he is emotionally immature and lacks understanding of other people.

It's this childlike and seeming innocence which endears some people to him. Like a small boy, he will push his luck as far as he can but quietly retreat when he knows he's overstepped the mark.

This is the impression I get from Maharaji. Look at what he did with the initiators back in the late seventies. He pushed them and pushed them harder and harder and used considerable vice-like mental tortures on them. But he was no more than a small boy experimenting with his pet mice. He really didn't know what he was doing.

He will shout and scream and threaten blue murder but when the chips are down, he is pretty harmless and the only power he has is that which others give him by their belief in him. The only dangerous thing about Maharaji is his ability to make people believe him. For then they are taken on one strange trip which can last for years.

But years later they see that he had no power, he was only kidding. He knew no more about life than anyone else and he just took people's faith and used it for his own ends. Not evil, in my opinion. Just careless and ignorant.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:58:48 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Maharaji is not a danger
Message:
Very interesting perspective Sir D. The part about playing with pet mice was a crack up. However I still believe M is evil because of the 'fruits' of his actions which have had very evil consequences. Being unable to see past his own hubris, being unable to have compassion for other people is evil, IMO. As Gerry has noted he has some sociopathic qualities. He is evil precisely because he didn;t give a damn that lives were taken on these strange trips and were fucked up, & because people are NOT pet mice here for his amusement. Now I do see what you are saying that we need to be careful not to attribute Hitler-esque qualities to M. He is not that kind of evil. And once relinquished I agree, he will leave you alone. But he is evil in a different sense.
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 00:52:19 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Maharaji is a danger
Message:
I think you really missed this time, Sir D. My opinion: M will do whatever serves him as long as he can get away with it. He will play with people till they break if it's to his gain, as long as the coast is clear. My opinion, you got it.

This site makes him less dangerous because his past actions are constantly being posted. He's under scrutiny and the premies can't resist reading the stuff even if they rush to say 'it cannot be' like some kind of Pavlovian dog. It keeps the right questions in the atmosphere around him, I should think.

There's a distinction to be made between M and a mass-murderer, but I'm not sure how far it really goes. He will damage lives in the mass numbers for his own benefit. He does what he does for money, fame, and utter domination over others for his own gratification. Can you imagine the endless foot massages, the offers to take legal risks, the countless women, endless flow of free cash, etc? If people were getting killed as a result, I really don't think he would care.

Not too many got killed, but a lot of lives were destroyed, some almost destroyed, some damaged, and judge for yourself the half-lives of those who remain. So no, he doesn't crave blood per se, but he does his damage on a massive scale, and that damage isn't to be taken lightly.

Plastic pyramid, indeed!
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:00:50 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Maharaji IS a danger
Message:
Dave: I'm afraid that I have to disagree on one of your points, in particular: 'But he was no more than a small boy experimenting with his pet mice.' The problem that I have with this is the most obvious; I'm not a pet mouse (his or anyone else's)! He was/is playing with people's minds and convincing them that to disconnect from their own minds (brains) is the 'goal.' THAT IS a very dangerous and destabilizing thing to do; evidenced by some of the premies that post here and say nothing intelligible.

No responses from mouse-lovers, please!

BTW Premies: You will automatically experience M's 'mindless' liberation upon your death..... you WILL disconnect from your brain at that time, so there is no need to waste alot of effort doing it now! Enjoy life by really diving into it and living it, not ....ahem... meditating on the taste of your snot or the ringing in your ears. A good glass of brandy and the sounds produced by a symphony orchestra are much better. The only 'gratitude' required is to 'clap' at the end of a movement!
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 05:50:59 (EST)
From: ISPY
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Can I kiss your feet? No!
Message:
I loved your post.
Poor Maharaji, surrounded by wackos wanting to perpetuate the old Indian custom.
I think he showed a lot of patience.
I bet he wanted to say 'Grow up'.
And how about that golf cart story, some people just can't let go of the past.
ISPY
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 17:02:53 (EST)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: ISPY
Subject: Can I kiss your feet? No!
Message:
ISPY wrote:

I loved your post. Poor Maharaji, surrounded by wackos wanting to perpetuate the old Indian custom. I think he showed a lot of patience.

I bet he wanted to say 'Grow up'.


Well then, ISPY, why didn't he?

Miloochie
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 05:28:31 (EST)
From: ISPY
Email: None
To: Miloochie
Subject: Can I kiss your feet Miloochie
Message:
He's too polite.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:05:03 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: ISPY
Subject: Bwah HA HA HA HA
Message:
ispy: I've heard alot of words to describe M, but 'polite'????????? Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

You made my day..... THANKS
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:46:36 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: ISPY
Subject: Why should we let go?
Message:
ispy: Why should we let got of the past? Those that forget the past and its mistakes are bound to repeat them! And you are living proof of that simple fact!
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 09:51:04 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet
Message:
Amazing story, Nim. Is my stomach turning or have I drunk too much coffee this morning? It's just so pathetic to see human beings reduced to begging a rip off artist if they can kiss his feet. The 40 year old who looked like a little girl makes me shudder. And those chochkies (sp) --yuk! Here you all had made millions for the guy and this is all you get-- cheap fake marble watches. Well told, Nim. We await more of your stories. I sure am glad you are NOT in that position anymore.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 14:17:00 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Helen/Nim
Subject: Hey Boss, can I kiss your feet
Message:
Reading that story about the girl begging for gmj's wrinkly old feet made me cringe. How humiliating to grovel like that. Maharaji must really trip out on how demented the bulk of his hardcore followers are.
'Heres a cucumber sandwich and a trinket, thanks for the million plus check, and hey, maybe if you're really lucky you can kiss my feet next time.' 'See ya wouldn't wanna be ya.'
Him and 'wadi sue' or Premlatta or whatever her name is, and all the whole rawatt clan, think these amtext slaves are the biggest fools of all time. They themselves(the rawatt clan) can't even imagine really working, let alone giving over all their profits to someone else.
I'm glad you woke up to the demeaning nature of being a premie, Nim. Man, that party sounded like a scary place to be.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 15:52:56 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: wouldn't wanna be ya
Message:
'See ya wouldn't wanna be ya'--HA HA, Marshall. I also loved what you said below about how M criticizes TV and yet has every remote and TV gadget known to mankind--oh, I forgot he's not ATTACHED to any of it so that makes it okay. (;
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 08:07:55 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Nim
Subject: For YOU Nim!
Message:
Hi Nim,

would you email me, I don't have yours, and I think I have some interesting stuff for you ...

jm
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 22:58:10 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: For YOU Nim!
Message:
Just done JM. Thank you.
Nim:)
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 20:17:22 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Nim
Message:
Nim, has Marolyn ever showed up at these events?
She was inside, he asks couples who wears the pants, she
never comes out. Remember the old days when she was a
devotee too?
And how come the boys don't make an appearance?
I wonder how all the wives felt later after they were
treated to that 'who wears the pants' comment from the
lord? Surely they must have felt degraded at least later
in reflection.
Is mark alimo still a book buyer?
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 21:04:31 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: bb
Message:
Marolyn WAS at the party from start to finish as was Daya along with the greatest tag along brother of all time, Rajaji. Wadi( as previously noted) and the boys, Hansi and Amar were not. We were not given any explanation, nor did anyone ask for one.
I wonder how all the wives felt later after they were
treated to that 'who wears the pants' comment from the
lord?

I believe he made that comment to make fun of the fact that while the women may have been wearing the dresses, in their marriage relationships they may in fact be 'wearing the pants.'
I didn't take it as an anti- women comment from m at all, only his way of making fun of the institution of marriage in general, along with the foibles inherent in husband -wife relatioships, based on HIS OWN experience. And I think everyone present took it the same way. Like I said, each time he was overheard making that comment it drew laughter.
What did get to me, was that each time a married couple came before him, he hit them with the same line, over and over. It was funny the first time, a little humorous the second, but by around the fifth time I was beginning to wonder why my master in his infinite intelligence, couldn't conceive of anything else to say to these people.
He just kept on milking that line , until it had no more life to it. Of course now that I think of it, thats what he does to people as well. Its probably a formula that works well for him.
The name Mark Alimo is familiar but I don't know if he's a buyer or not.
Do you have the correct spelling? There is a Susan Alaimo, who is one of the premie managers at the Amtext office.
Perhaps she and Mark are related, but again I don't know.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 23:23:44 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: This raises an interesting q
Message:
The Laughing Too Much (at far too little) phenomenon, or LTM, is puzzling. I think it's kind of associated with the disengaged cult mentality which really rides roughshod over regular human thoughts and feelings. Maybe it's because Maharaji makes people feel inadequate in their regular consciousness. As they strive for some higher plateau (which doesn't exist) they have to reconstruct the steps that came so naturally back on ground level. Part of all that is having a sense of humour. Maharaji usurps everyone's readiness to react spontaneously and instead shows the paralyzed crowd flash cards as to what's funny, what's poignant and what's profound. He literally cues them as to when to 'ooh' and when to 'ah'. Right, Sheep?
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 07:00:49 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: flash cards
Message:
'shows the paralyzed crowd flash cards as to what's funny'--exactly, that's great. I remember feeling very paralyzed at those festivals waiting to hear what Maharaji would say and then hearing the uncomfortable wooden laughter of the premies around me.

That we had such blind faith in this guy is just beyond horrifying.
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 12:29:04 (EST)
From: B-ook
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: aliamo
Message:
'It was only his way of...'
NIM!
You are engaging in the classic cult behaviour I used to.
Makeing excuses and rationalizing for his behaviour.
OK, You only slipped up this once, but that assumption
is not warrented.
Mark was married to susan but she was told she was instructor
material so she gave up the family to devote herself
with less distraction and jettisoned a husband that wanted
some attention also.
The instructor-susan hubley- or someone, was just talking
and didn't have the power to make her an instructor
and the part timere instructors went out the window
and so susan was left just helping/serving in the divine
service of the book world.
Marks brother and sister in law were premies but they
had the sense to leave in about 1980.
Susan thought mark would carry the ball with the kid but he went off and left miami and got his book buying route in north carolina
and that area.
Mark used to fry big time at deca. He really had a hard time
in the ashram. And he was enslaved 7 days a week in deca and
prayed for a break and he happened to damage his back for
a couple weeks and he thought it was rawats way of teaching
him a lesson for dareing to ask for a break.

Hooray for the boys having enough sense to reject the trip.
What a trauma it must be to have him home so much now.
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 20:26:38 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: B-ook
Subject: aliamo
Message:
'It was only his way of...'
NIM!
You are engaging in the classic cult behaviour I used to.
Makeing excuses and rationalizing for his behaviour.
OK, You only slipped up this once, but that assumption
is not warrented

Ok B-ook you got me on this one. It IS an assumption on my part.
But tell me this, haven't you ALSO made an assumption here, perhaps not explicitly expressed as of yet, but at least implicitly...in your asking what the women thought of m's statement?
Quite honestly, I felt then, and I see it the same in retrospect, that MJ was NOT making fun of the women in as much as he was laughing at the ' balance of power' if you will, that exists in marriage relationships...that quite often, women may in fact be actually 'wearing the pants' these days, defying more traditinal stereotypical views of the just so recent past.
There IS humour in the turning of stereotype thinking on its head,
Again , I just wonder why m had to milk that line for all its worth. I personally felt embarrassed that my Boss ,Pal, and Teacher...whatever couldn't vary it up a little. For myself personally, I attributed it to a kind of awkwardness on m's part that somehow crept into his performance as the Great Giver of Gifts(that is trinckets)during the ceremony.
I can tell you this for certain, considering he kept repeating it over and over...none of the women felt offended, and no one present felt there was any need for anyone to be offended.
Now, if you have any information that could lead me to see that eveyone there including myself, missed the point(or at least some point) on this ,or any other feed back, I'd certainly like to hear it.
It is possible. MJ is definitely a specious kind of a guy to say the least, and I'd say the air of dementia was rather thick at this party. Everyone was caught in it, and so was I.
Regarding Susan and Mark, I can only give you feedback on Susan.
She is one of what I believe are now three premie managers holding the fort at the amtext office in Miami. She's been there quite a long time.
Susan was the one who answered the phone when I first called the office to make the inquiry and is the one who connected me to the Brogans so I could be trained.
But she was the only one of the premie managers, who didn't get to act as my account rep.
Near the end they wanted to pass me off to Susan so that she would be my account rep. They thought the change of scenery(read;account rep) would do me good, but I just found her so unbearably plastic and phony. She was also I felt the most incompetent of the amtext staff, and on occasion when she would handle something for me when my own account rep wasn't available... she would always fuck up.
I found the ways to let her know that I wasn't really into working with her on a regular basis.
In any case alot of Amtext premies...people like the Brogans, Colin Neiburger, Patsy Sanders and Susan Aliamo, a fair number of buyers as well, are your 'complete and total' premies. Their work is tied in with m , they're very involved in their communities and helping out at events, they practice k, their friends are pwks, they listen to videos... they got it all... and it all HAS them.
Their lives and existences are totally engulfed by the world of m and k. Not much room left over for any thing else.
I call them ' EXTREME premies'... and Amtext definitely does provide an extreme premie environment.
A very unhealthy one...sorry to say.
And I consider those mentioned above, along of course with Chuck Nathan to be the leading accomplices in amtext's rather perverted management style.
Nice talkn to you B-ook:)
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 20:58:01 (EST)
From: TJ
Email: tjordan@bcn.net
To: Nim
Subject: Amtext
Message:
NIM,I've enjoyed reading what you have written about Amtext,and the party,I was wondering since I am new to this site, if you could share how Amtext came about? I practiced K in Providence,RI during the 70's and early 80's and a premie there who I helped on occasion,I shipped books because I had a van, paticipated in a textbook business. It was pretty lucrative, he bought a BMW when most premies were driving junks, and it was all pretty secretive. It sounds like AMTEXT took over the business, which if I remember correctly, was somewhere in the midwest, maybe Missouri or Kansas.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 00:44:21 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Amtext conceived in thievery
Message:
Hi TJ. I'm relatvely new here myself ...only discovered the forum last November.
I'm glad you've enjoyed the threads on Amtext and the party, I only wish the entire 'amtext' experience hadn't come at at such a cost. Sometimes that's how it feels.
BTW, the business isn't nearly as profitable today as it was back in the late 70's when your friend was starting out in Providence RI. Market saturation in a nutshell, along with publishers cutting back on the supply of complimentary desk copies to teachers, has had a real dampening effect.
But to answer your question, Amtext was conceived of by a premie who discovered the 'book' business and the potential of having an entire network, or army of buyers to supply the wholesaler MBS in Columbia Missouri, and for him to collect a 5% commission for setting up the entire deal and operation for this to happen.
Just so you know , the premie in question posted here last November , as well, under the initials RDS. If I remember correctly the story goes like this.
RDS went to to Chuck Nathan of the Boston ashram to solicits Chuck's assistance in finding premies who would be interested in becoming bookbuyers to get this project off the ground. In return RDS promises Chuck that M will get a tithe from the new company's profit.
Chuck goes along with RDS and finds premies to become bookbuyers ... RDS sets them up, teaches them the business and then Chuck decides to have the new premie buyers get behind him in their own deal with MBS, cutting RDS out of the picture.
What Chuck was interested in, was having premies contribute to a company that would in effect (except for tax reasons:)not just tithe to m ,but be owned by m. This is the company that became known as Amtext.
Moral of the story I guess is that RDS was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and definitely looked to the wrong people for assistance in getting his idea off the ground.
You say that it was' all pretty secretive' back then. Still is today. Basically its a question of keeping m's involvement with Amtext hush hush.
And then, Chuck Nathan, Shawn and Barb Brogan and their gang are as slimy and as psychotic as they get. Chuck conceived of this company in act of thievery, and these are people for whom it is impossible to open their mouths and even speak one word of truth.
Its as if,they HAVE to lie, in order to be in THAT place.
And they always have some act of cheat and deceipt to cover up.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 03:43:33 (EST)
From: TJ
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Amtext conceived in thievery
Message:
So RDS conceived the idea for Amtext, shared it with Chuck Nathan and then was squeezed out. I wonder if he ever thought about suing? Would this have been in 80,81-82?
Amtext reminds me of another business venture, RHINO COPY. That's a story for another day!
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:31:25 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Amtext conceived in thievery
Message:
So RDS conceived the idea for Amtext, shared it with Chuck Nathan and then was squeezed out. I wonder if he ever thought about suing?
He has consulted attorneys who have told him there really isn't much he can do , probably because his agreement with Chuck wasn't in writing.
Ok TJ pal, whenever you're ready...I'd love to hear about Rhino Copy.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:51:37 (EST)
From: TJ
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Rhino Copy
Message:
NIM, my contact with Rhino Copy was limited to a $500 startup investment. This was a company started around 85-86 in Philadelphia by some premies that really took off initially, then after about 3 years went out of business when it was dicovered that the books were being cooked. I know of at least one premie who went to prison because of it. Maybe someone will read this post and tell the complete story. By the way, they did pay me the $500 back.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 20:28:42 (EST)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Rhino Copy
Message:
Yep, sounds like a typical premie business.
At least you got your $500 back, and you're here to tell the story.
I think that's what counts.
We SURVIVED, and we can talk about it, so others will know.
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:36:42 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Rhino Copy
Message:
Can you explain this more? The books were cooked? I don't get it. By the way, this is all after my own personal 'divine times', but Nim has had me fascinated with his tales of premie commerce (or theft, depending).
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:09:08 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Premie Commerce
Message:
There was lots of 'premie commerce' although most of it only survived because there were ashram premies willing to serve as slave labor.

A premie named Richie Azzarone (from Providence) used to drive to Mexico with a big truck and bring back Mexican pottery (really ugly stuff that hung on these hangers made of twine -- remember plant hangers in the 70s?) Anyhow he bought them for about $1 each and ashram premies all over the country sold them for $10 to people on the streets or door to door. I think a big hunk of the profits went to Maharaji.

Richie used to also bring back these Mexican 'knights' that stood about three feet tall, made of pressed metal. Junk, real junk. Anyhow, he bought them for about $3 and they sold for about $25.

It was all really schlocky but people would buy them.

The book-buying business (now Amtext) started out as an ashram business and spread all over the country.

For awhile, premies were making and selling these awful 'honey oak bars.' They were basically peanut butter, honey and oatmeal pressed into these really heavy bars, wrapped in celophane and sold to health food stores, etc. I remember at one coordinators meeting they announced that someone was 'the honey oat bar coordinator for the United States.' I'm sure that premie was blissed out to have such a high service.

In Miami, I organized fundraisers in which we sold beer, etc., in the stands at Miami Dolphins games. I really liked doing that, because I got to see the games. You had to walk through the stands carrying an ice cooler and shouting 'ICE COLD BEER!!!' I remember one British premie almost got beat up by the rowdy football fans because he was yelling 'LOVELY BEER!!!' We also sold beer and refreshments at an outdoor Steve Seeger concert at a baseball stadium. That was pretty weird.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:03:55 (EST)
From: TJ
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Premie Commerce
Message:
I used to make runs from Providence to a warehouse in Queens where Richie kept that mexican junk, because I owned a van and so it wasn't only ashram premies working for free. I'd work all day, stop at home, see the wife and kids, jump in the van drive 4 hours, go to the ashram in Queens so that someone could let us into the warehouse, get the stuff and drive back, unload it and finally crawl into bed at 3:00 A.M.. All in the name of service.
And an idea that we got from rev moon's followers, selling flowers was pretty lucrative on Easter and Mother's Day, talk about a cash cow, the Providence community would easily make $20 grand profit to send to m on these weekends.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:11:22 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: y'all
Subject: Premie Commerce
Message:
Hi,

I remember getting very excited about a premie business in Boston, refinishing and reupholstering furniture (as I remember it). While in town, I visited and offered my service (free labor) and was surprised that they did not want me (big surprise, no experience at all in this arena).

But I did get to trade a little satsang (back when we were allowed to say what our 'experience' was). They seemed to think I was a little fanatical.

Also, in Denver, I used to go to IHQ to offer my services. Pretty much all they let me do was Windex the Windows and Pledge the Wood. I really joyfully accepted these menial tasks as His Lila...Maraji knew I was smart and could do and/or learn just about anything very well and quickly...he was just trying to show me that my mind and intellect were not the focus here...

gag me with a spoon

puke puke

blather blather

Love Victoria

P.S. In retrospect, I am really thankful that nobody noticed I had potential. So glad not to have been used and abused in that way, not to have been closer to the inner circle.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:23:58 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: premie census forms
Message:
Victoria,

I had the same thought the other day about having enough intelligence to do a crucial service for BM. Back then I did desire a place in the inner circle. I imagine a lot of people did. But, thank god that never happened! Imagine getting really sucked in.

But, do you remember those census forms where you listed your skills, education, etc.?

I recall that at the time there was only one person within the organization that had a paid position and it was a computer programmer.

Maharaji, you're a fat blood sucking leach! Thank god, I had nothing to offer you.
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 09:27:16 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: premie census forms
Message:
The only personal information I recall giving was that my father is a journalist and he hated that I was wanting to receive k. This was all verbal and at my k selection with Jagdeo. I was really worried that my dad, confirmed atheist that he was, was going to fuck up my chance to sit at the feet of the living lord. Oh, and also he wanted to know my age -- 19 at the time -- and he made the comment, how young I was. Little did I know that many, many premies received k at that age.

I had heard of other people filling out forms and stuff, but I think I was too transient...just not in the 'right place at the right time' to submit my dossier for the Supremest Sycophant in Person...or something like that. =)

Peace,

Victoria

P.S. M could have used you to help him with his website, ay? Very nice job you are doing over there, you and Roger, are you the same person or 2 people?
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:55:09 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Flower Sales
Message:
Richie brought the flower sales to San Francisco as well and he always talked about the Providence sales, including the hassles they would get from the police.

I used to drive in big trucks with him to Half Moon Bay where the flower growers were, and bring back tons of flowering plants that we would deliver to premies stationed all over the Bay Area. Mothers Day was the biggest, but Easter was also pretty lucrative. We also used to easily bring in $20k in a weekend that all went to the Lotus Feet. Yes, we were really not different than the Moonies in that regard.

Actually, Richie and I got to be close friends. Because he was good at orgainzing money-raisers, he was somewhat exempt from a lot of the ashram rules that the rest of us had to follow and kind of did his own thing, traveling around the country raising money. If he could organize fundraisers, and eat at good Italian restaurants, he was happy, although at one point he got an ashram sister pregnant and got in a somewhat disastrous marriage.

But Richie couldn't understand when I rejected Maharaji in 1983. We talked a lot about it, and he kind of agreed with me, but I think that created a wedge in our friendship. The last time I saw Richie was probably 10 years ago. He was divorced and living with his parents in Providence. He also had gained about 30 pounds, I guess from his mother's cooking. I liked Richie a lot. I wonder what he is doing now.
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 07:36:48 (EST)
From: '>' Crowbill
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Premie Commerce
Message:
The honey oat bars were a hartford creation.
A woman named Madelline Bombetto, who ownde a strip bar,
came up with it and funded it.
I was in miami but I heard about it.
Reports were that they were not good.

The beer sales at the miami orange bowl made money.
There were lots of premies selling.
We were bussed up to the tangerine bowl in gainseville
fla to sell at two rolling stones shows. It was bill wymans
birthday and the first band was van halen.
One thing I noticed was that no one danced during the stones.
The audience is motionless. wierd.

The premie nazi in charge of the buses moved the buses from
where we were used to on the last night and so I was lucky
to find them and he wanted to leave -on time- and left
5 premies!
I went up to the front of the bus and told him to turn around
as soon as the bus took off and told the bus driver to stop.
The nazi said -after repeated arguments by me- that we were
not turning back and that that.

After the 5 or 6 hour bus ride he had second thoughts
and was freaked out by his decision.
It was a harsh world, that premie upper dust, security,
judgemental scene.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:42:10 (EST)
From: TJ
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Rhino Copy
Message:
I got my information 2nd hand but it went something like this. They got very big, very quickly, and were exceeding all business expectations, kinda like one stop shopping for business copy needs. They had the newest technology at the time and had a very favorable contract with Xerox. They would lease copiers from Xerox and they would act as an outsource to corporations, charging equipment to those contracts, that did not exist. So on paper, the books would show them re-leasing 10 copiers but in fact in reality, they were only leasing 2 from Xerox. These were large copiers, say the lease was worth $1 million a year, so that they were cooking the books to the tune of $8mil. In other words they were charging equipment to the contract that didn't exist and they were doing it by using bogus serial numbers.
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:52:57 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: TJ
Subject: Rhino Copy
Message:
I missed that particular boy scout badge and I'm still confused about how this worked. I could understand a tax deduction for equipment that didn't exist, but I can tell you're talking about something with more cash than that.

Was this official premie stuff thru the organization?

Also JW, when was all of this beer being sold?
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:10:30 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Beer Sales
Message:
Also JW, when was all of this beer being sold?

circa 1980
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:23:36 (EST)
From: B-*>*
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: aliamo
Message:
I saw a guy named Dan Hienstien in hartford in dec.
He was leaving to go live in San fran. with his new wife and child
He was going to try being a bookbuyer out there.
I waanted to get into it but we were just passing on the
street and I had two of the boys age 6 and 9 so it was short.
Hisw wife is not into M. She was as they were engaged
but after knowledge phased out.
You mentioning Sheldon reminded me that when I used to
go to NYC for events like yurim wiess events, there would
be about 24 people tops. If that.

Mark Aliamo has brown curly hair and is fit.
He was a go getter that was derailed in life by the cult
involvement like the rest of us. He invited a number of
people from his town that were young but they all faded
by the early eighties. I remember one girl from Marks town
bringing her friend to a program and there was the tape of
atlantic city 76. It was long and dreadful and I remember
looking at her and seeing her face and thinking 'this is
not a good intro' sure enough niether of them were seen
again. I know why I was so trapped, those that got out early
were not making excuses.

Speaking of excuses, the comment rawat made about wearing
of the pants reflects the lack of equality that is
his view of others.
He talks about 'your relationship with yourself' 'with your breath', his inner self is better than yours and his brain is
smarter than yours. HE rules his world and that is that.
Luckily, evidence indicates that there is consequences to
'wrongheaded' attitudes and that is another pointer to
the catagory two view that there is a self concious intelligence
a bit larger than the average joe.
But I have to read up on the Ev. Psycology view.

Do you remember going to meetings where yurim wiess and others
were having community meetings showing slides and talking about
raiseing money to buy that additional land around the house
in malibu to provide another driveway and extra land for
'security'?
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 21:31:18 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: B-*>*
Subject: Money meeting
Message:
I remember one of those meetings at the Gustafsons house where Chuck showed slides of the res. I also remember him acting pissed off when I left at the end without forking over any money. I was surprised at his attitide, because I thought he was doing 'blissful divine service', and should have full confidence the money would come. I certainly didn't have much at the time!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:03:15 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: caring
Message:
I haven't been able to read or post for a few weeks - been busy with other matters. I was struck by the posts on the Denver premie suicide, especially Bobby's post about M's inability to show compassion. At one stage I was around M quite a bit. I can honestly say ,apart from what he showed to his children, that I cannot recall any time when he showed real care or compassion for somebody. Anger, derision, detachment, aloofness-yes, but genuine compassion, no. There was always the assumption that a premie had the solution to everything and so if one felt that he or she needed compassionate help, there must be a lack of understanding about the gift that he had been given. I dont think M was necessarily deliberately cold and uncaring. I just dont think he was aware enough or even capable of showing compassion. I know of premies who were in genuine need of help and were in the position of being able to approach M personally. The closest he got to any real understanding was to tell them they needed to see a psychiatrist- he went through a phase in the 80s of suggesting this to nearly everyone around him at this time. So let alone show any personal compassion for premies that he didn't know from a bar of soap, he was incapable of showing it for the ones who were close to him. Personal lives didn't seem to matter to M.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:20:09 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Prosecuting Maharaji
Message:
I'm getting the impression the he, as you say, is incapable fo compassion. This would make him a sociopath.

Check this out: In California, the state legislature has enacted consumer protection laws that are unmatched by any other state. The false advertising and unfair competition laws of California -- also called 'little FTC acts' -- are set forth in the Business and Professions Code, Sections 17200, et seq. and 17500, et seq.
These permit any person or organization to sue to enjoin the fraudulent activities of any person or company either located in California or affecting the state's consumers. The plaintiff can also seek restitution for past misrepresentations, disgorgement of any undue profit the offender has earned, and reimbursement for the cost of the prosecution. This is a potent weapon for fighting those who misrepresent their products and services.

In California, any individual activist or consumer-protection group can become a 'private attorney general' who carries the full power of the law. Imagine the shock such a criminal will experience when 'Joe off the street' seeks an injunction and disgorgement of wrongfully earned profits. If actual purchasers cannot be found, the court can even order the wrongdoer to pay restitution to an organization whose function is to protect consumers from the type of conduct in which the defendant has engaged.


Maybe we CAN put him out of business and get our money back!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 20:58:26 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: caring enough to prosecute
Message:
Dear Gerry

If you would see the post lower down to /from Mary M Electronics- you wil get an idea about how I feel about
I think we should research it this.

count me in for brainstorming/research/think tank activities ect, ect ect.

If it means I have to reveal my identity to a working committee to do so, I will.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 02:04:50 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: caring enough to prosecute
Message:
gerry- sorry , I put your name in the FROM slot. Its from me above
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 10:49:46 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: No prob, cp (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 18:03:33 (EST)
From: L
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: caring
Message:
Welcome back chr, I'm getting ready to take off for the weekend myself. I think we all need to get away from the computer for periods of time, I know I do... Ya know I don't think Prem Rawat came out of the best of caring situations. I'm not making excuses for him, but his biological mother did get extremely upset with him, for marrying a western woman and not wanting to live in India. She denouced him as perfect master because she had a life planned for him that he didn't want to follow. Mainly military school and a prearranged marriage to an Indian girl. M has talked about this often. I mean at 12 years old he was giving the Peace Bomb satsang, that's not exactly healthy behavior for a 12 year old. I would love to see a psychological profile on Prem Rawat. I would think that he had a very rigid childhood, having a strict perfect master father and a mother who appeared to have doubts about her husbands work. M mentioned on many occasions how his mother used to give money to churches and his father would say 'give the money to me I can show you heaven better than a church.' I mean there's lot's of statements M has made that can give insight into his psychological makeup. Anyway enjoy, talk to you when I get back.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 18:12:26 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: caring
Message:
The closest he got to any real understanding was to tell them they needed to see a psychiatrist- he went through a phase in the 80s of suggesting this to nearly everyone around him at this time.

I think this is amazing and I can't imagine Maharaji saying this. Even now, Maharaji is dismissive of anything besides knowledge as being beneficial. And Psychiatry is a means of understanding better how your mind works, not a means of going to 'that place.' Was his new-found confidence in psychiatry a result of some kind of therapy he entered into himself? I have heard he and Marolyn had marriage counseling, but I wonder where he got this confidence in psychiatrists.

I also remember that someone posted that Raja Ji went to a psychiatrist, and then had to see a second psychiatrist because of what the first one told him. Sounds very funny and I'm not surprised.

What kind of problems did premies have, for which he recommended a psychiatrist? Did you ever go to him with a problem and did he ever suggest you see a psychiatrist? Did you?

Do you ever recall premies getting angry at Maharaji for being so distant/uncaring?
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 19:34:42 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: caring
Message:
I never felt close enough or confident enough to approach him personally with any problems. I think the psychiatrist thing was a phase brought about by Marolyn returning to university and studying psychology. Premies around M often had crisis- it was put down to the mind confrontation of being around the antithesis of mind. Some became so depressed or confused that they felt they really needed help. Two premies that I am particularly thinking of were told that they were just making the wrong choice and had the wrong focus-ie all they needed to do was take their focus off their problems and put it on M and K. He suggested to both that they see psychiatrists as well. He seemed to have no comprehension of what these premies were really going through. This was all about the time of the ashram closure. There was a mass exodus of premies close to M over the next 4 or 5 years after 83.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 21:17:38 (EST)
From: billdha
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: caring
Message:
JW,
what you heard was that raja ji was going to a therapist
and had to take on a second therapist at the same time
to deal with spill over issues.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 19:56:19 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: caring
Message:
There was always the assumption that a premie had the solution to everything and so if one felt that he or she needed compassionate help, there must be a lack of understanding about the gift that he had been given.

What a great gig, huh. 'What are you coming to me for? Everything you have is within you. I've done my job. Now its up to you.' What a sad trap to find yourself in when you believe this philosophy. I bet a smile from M or a hand on the shoulder would have been worth a million 'good meditations' to a premie. Like JW once mentioned, M is everything to a premie. The meditation comes second. It's human nature. Love takes two to happen, not one. At least, that's the way its always been with me. As far as compassion goes, you can't just sit there under a blanket feeling it. I can't fathom that. The only compassion I've ever felt has been toward somebody or from somebody. You'd think a master would be just brimming with compassion for his devotees. It's interesting that you didn't feel that. Any premies out there who did? If so, why don't you tell us about it? What's your up close and personal experiences of the master? How many kind words and warm smiles have you been the recipient of?
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 21:48:05 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: caring
Message:
I might add that the problems that these premies were having were related to what we would now call normal human needs- loneliness, isolation, disorientation, lack of a real sense of self- all induced by being a devotee of M and magnified by being close to him. I'm labelling these problems in hindsight; at the time they didn't really know what was going on. These were stable people with no history of disturbances.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 23:21:36 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: caring
Message:
Or putting it more bluntly - Maharaji fucks up their heads through his own blind ignorance and crazy philosophy (which he never adheres to himself) and then adds insult to injury by telling them to go see a shrink.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:21:17 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Indian blathering
Message:
[This nonsense was culled from the latest hot bulletin on ELK reporting Maharaji's sermon in India the other day]

THE PATH OF THE HEART
Today, this is an opportunity for all of us to listen and understand about the path of Knowledge, the path of this heart.

In fact, no matter how much we understand about it, it will never be enough. The more we can understand about this path the more we will benefit.

If people want to understand what Knowledge is, the first thing they need to do is to accept their own humanity and to accept this life.

RELATIONSHIPS
The relationships you have in this world you accept and understand.

But do you know what your relationship is with yourself?

In this world you can point and say: 'This is my father. This is my mother. This is my brother. This is my uncle.'

However, if you point toward yourself do you know what your relationship is with yourself?

Most people would say: 'I don't know.'

PARROT TALK
Here, people teach parrots to say: 'Ram. Ram.' In other places, they teach them to say: 'Polly want a cracker.'

These few words do not mean that a parrot can really speak. Even if it can say: 'Yes' and 'No', the parrot does not know what these words mean.

Are we not sometimes like parrots ourselves? Someone has taught us something and we just repeat it. We are ready to accept whatever people tell us.

But have we ever understood our relationship with our heart? What is my personal relationship with my breath?

As long as our breath comes in and out, we are alive. So what is our relationship with life?

SHORT MEMORIES
When life leaves the body that you love so much, people, who once loved you too, will soon start to dislike your dead body.

You think you are beautiful and what you have done has impressed people. But even the people that cared for you and wanted to be close to you will only cry for one or two days in remembrance of you. Then everything will be back to normal. And this body that you cared for will be carried away.

A TRUE CONNECTION
We don't understand what that connection with life is. If we don't understand that relationship, what do we understand?

We need to understand Knowledge. But there are so many kinds of knowledge: astrology, using a camera, cooking and playing the drums, the tabla or the harmonium.

Krishna said that if you have knowledge of yourself then that is the king of all knowledges.

By knowing that Knowledge, even if we don't know any of the other knowledges, we can experience that which is within us.

POINTING THE WRONG WAY
Yet we have not recognised it. We have very little experience of what is within us.

Everyone says: 'God is within you.' But when they talk about God they point up to the sky.

That is like saying that the microphone which is in front of me is over there. If I said that my chair is over there, people would say: 'That is wrong. You should point to where the chair is, where you are actually sitting.'

It is the same for masters. They say: 'Why point up there? You should point towards yourself.'

THE WRONG HAIR CUT
Human beings say: 'God has created me.' But when people talk about God it feels like it is the human beings who have made God. They give hair and a beard to someone who doesn't need it. They even give him a day off when he doesn't need one. They give him a butler when he doesn't need one.

With this head we can think about many things; we can imagine so many things; we can create so many things. But we cannot truly imagine what is within us.

THE LIMITS OF UNDERSTANDING
This head has particular limits. We need to understand those limits. We need to understand the boundaries of our intellect.

It is very clear that when your consciousness is connected to the truth you will experience that truth.

In the same way if your consciousness is connected to the pain or joy of this world that is what you will experience. So when you come to connect your consciousness to such a thing which has been described as supreme bliss, then what you will experience is bliss.

That is why people here say: 'Glory to truth, consciousness and bliss.'

That supreme bliss is not up there, it is here within you.

OMNIPRESENT
When aspirants come to me that it what I teach them: that it is not up there but within them.

Remember it is everywhere, that power is everywhere morning and night. That bliss is always with you, always present within you.

The question is: are you ready to accept that relationship?

That is up to you. It is your desire. It is dependent on you.

CROCODILE TEARS
People make so many movies, especially in India.

When people go to the movies, they cry and cry and cry. Usually someone dies or there is dialogue like: 'I love you, but you have rejected me and left me.'

In reality the actor doesn't even know the woman he is talking to very well. He doesn't love her and is married to someone else.

But people are prepared to forget everything for three hours, to completely forget reality.

This is really fooling people. You get them to stand in line, take their money, put them in a dark room and then show them a lie. And then the people start imagining: 'This is the truth.'

I never understand why people cry in the movies. People enjoy crying. But if people want to cry what can I do, even if I have a way to make them laugh?

This is entertainment of the mind not the soul. If people want this kind of entertainment how will they benefit from Knowledge?

A GIFT TO YOURSELF
If a person is not really hungry and you place wonderful dishes before him, what will he eat?

Do you want Knowledge? Or don't you want Knowledge? Are you ready to practice? Or are you going to stay as you are?

As an aspirant the first thing you need to decide is: are you truly ready to accept Knowledge in your life or not?

Are you able and ready to accept what is already yours?

Are you ready to accept this experience?

Why am I saying this? When you would probably answer: 'When Knowledge is so beautiful, why wouldn't I accept it?'

THE GARLAND OF THE BREATH
Each and every moment and the coming and going of each and every breath is so important. Each breath is so precious and it never comes back...

The world says there is nothing on the inside, but the master says everything is within. Everything is within the garland of the breath.

It is your decision: inside or outside.

But I don't say leave everything on the outside. I say at least experience that thing which is inside.

Do not ignore the true connection with your heart. Here we speak about Knowledge not ignorance.

Knowledge is only a way to go within, not the experience itself. What you will experience is yours personally.

There is no pressure. If you like it, fine. If you don't like it, leave it. No problem. Fine.

TRUE FAITH
I received a question from a blind person asking: 'Can I receive Knowledge?'

I said: 'Yes, very easily.'

At the last Knowledge session there were many people who were blind.

With Knowledge, that which you need to see is not outside it is within, so eyesight is not required.

I am not talking about blind faith, I am talking about a true faith: when you accept that experience the seed will grow.

THE KINGDOM OF HEARTS
In the kingdom of the heart there is no need for sacrifice. In the kingdom of the world people want to sacrifice, but in the kingdom of the heart there is no need.

Come with your heart and accept with your heart.

The heart's door is never closed.

GHOST BUSTER
In this world the doubts are endless. There is jealousy, fear and doubts. They are just ghosts, they have no face or form yet they come and weigh you down. The Knowledge can remove these ghosts. In my experience that will always be true.

The doors in the world can close.

The heart's door can always be opened. The Knowledge is the key to open the door. Go within.

No one will push you in. When you want to go in, you can.

ALL ABOUT BLISS
You may have come here empty-handed, but do not leave here empty-handed. Leave full. This is the kingdom of the heart.

This is about joy, about bliss. Bliss is there, so you can experience it.

It doesn't matter whether you are in Australia, Europe, America, India, even at the North Pole or the South Pole, there is bliss, because each human being carries it in their heart.

Whether you are rich or poor, fat or thin, there is no difference. Bliss is for everyone. There is no difference.

Open your heart and enjoy.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:54:39 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah, god forbid
Message:
Jim: that those poor indian premies spend any of their money on 'entertainment,' rather than give it in gratitude (irt his comments about 'crocodile tears'). If they do, they can't possibly 'benefit' from knowledge...... yeah, right, M has our best interests at heart. If we give him all of our money, then we won't get ourselves into trouble and besides, he knows how to spend it more wisely!

You know, along the same vein, I've NEVER heard M say to poor people, 'keep your money and feed your families, THAT will be gratitude enough for me!' NEVER has he said this....
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 12:39:18 (EST)
From: L
Email: None
To: Mike & Jim
Subject: Yeah, god forbid
Message:
Very good point Mike. I really hate reading that bullshit blathering, especially the one on Short Memories and Parroting; 'People are only going to remember you for one or two days and then everything will be back to normal.' Really!! I think most people who lose a loved one will remember that person the rest of their lives, people place flowers on the graves of loved ones for decades, and things never go back to being normal after you've lost a loved one. This guy cannot relate to everyday people. Has he forgotten his father (Shri Hans) who died more than twentyfive years ago??? I think not! What the hell is he talking about, people will only remember you a day or two? The parroting thing is what most premies do today. Watch, after each program/event premies go back to their communities and parrot. It used to be followers would share their individual experiences in front of the congregation (sharing satsang) but today they watch a video and then parrot what M says. Of course, because M believes that he is the only one who can give satsang, he said himself that he thought the premies and initiators in the 1970's were confusing people. Oops, I'm parrotting. Well he's the most confusing of all, I've met people who are much clearer than Prem Rawat. At best he's schzophenric, and his followers don't know how to think for themselves. I know I can count on some premie to put a spin on what Maharaji's saying, but it does'nt matter what he means, it's what he says. He is a horrible teacher. Deepak Chropa, Wayne Dwyer, Carolyn Meyse (sp) and others are better teachers than maharaji, and can give you a better experience then him also. M's a joke!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 22:31:09 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: L
Subject: Yeah, god forbid
Message:
I agree with you as a teacher he's a joke!! Mostly because he's got absolutely no depth. Premies would say he's 'simple', simply much ado about nada I say.
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 05:05:54 (EST)
From: to L
Email: nada
To: L
Subject: Yea god rabbiT
Message:
imagine that i live in ocean beach, coaco beach, Kosovo,
meet some babe.... therefore one can ramble in thought
about gods existence, but i, who think 4 me,
know,no,yea i say know
take it w/grain o' salt... and seek what ye want to seek,
seek of yo real feel, o' yo deal, and
C.C. socrates for christs sake. god blessed not 2 b confused w/ gaud dern it.... remember we here in da south,respect 'Dixie'
personally
yo recommend
essense gospel of peace, page 27, two/thirds done da page.
thanks again fo da thumbs..
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 22:28:00 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maharaji's Indian blathering
Message:
Everyone says: 'God is within you.' But when they talk about God they point up to the sky.

That is like saying that the microphone which is in front of me is over there. If I said that my chair is over there, people would say: 'That is wrong. You should point to where the chair is, where you are actually sitting.'

It is the same for masters. They say: 'Why point up there? You should point towards yourself.'


He said this recently?

I don't know about you, but back when I was an aspirant, I would have taken this to mean he was saying he was God...he didn't say it was the same for us, he said it was the same for masters -- point toward yourself.

How many 'masters' are there anyway? I think he must have said there was only ONE perfect master. At one time anyway.

My memory of the way Jesus put it is that we all have what he has...what he had. Maraji can't let us all be little gods and goddesses, though. Why? Why not?

Nice to read you again.

=)

victoria
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 10:17:42 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question to premies
Message:
What is a 'seeker of truth' ?

Is it someone looking for permanent bliss?

What is 'truth', in m's world really?

Is it the feeling you get at darshan, the bliss you get from watching a video? When you hear 'jaisatchidanand'?

What is it?
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 11:03:45 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Question to JM
Message:
don't you get tired of asking the same questions over and over again? It is kind of boring to read
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 13:11:21 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Why read them?
Message:
Why don't you go watch a video?

Or practise? It's soooooooooooooooo fantastic of an experience!

Why are you losing this precious life reading stupidities?
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 13:51:38 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: A Seeker of Truth is
Message:
Someone who invests time to learn all about a perticular subject before investing themselves in it.

Of course in premie-speak revised and evolved it would me someone who can accept 'the gift of the master.'

aaaannnnnddddd take the HUGE, CRAZY, NEVER BEEN WON BET!

Agree never to seek truth again as a reasonable person. No more questions about leaky buckets!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:01:59 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Zac you're cheating!
Message:
YOU know the answer. That was for the premies !
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:11:26 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Zac you're cheating!
Message:
ooopps! Your right my helping then is not going to further their attempts to think for themselves and stand on their own two feet.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 16:00:40 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: good point (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 17:18:34 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Orlando!
Message:
Hey bud, You doing okay? You agreed with my post. I'd be happy to have a chat when I return. I'm leaving in about an hour for a weekend at camp and I haven't packed a thing. Hope you are feeling well. Later Zac
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 14:28:49 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: ooops!
Message:
Sorry Zac,
i was responding to the post 'why read then' from jean Michel...
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Date: Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 23:43:43 (EST)
From: SHP
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Question to premies
Message:
For me, the 'seeker of truth' handle represents someone who wants to have the most incredible experience that a human being is capable of having, in accordance with our original purpose for being created in the first place....'Truth' being more than words, dogmas, creeds, concepts....rather, an all-encompassing experience of Life itself as experienced through the human receiver and all of its sensory and extrasensory pickups available fully functioning. That scratches the surface...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 21:57:15 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's report from India
Message:
[I just culled this whatever-you-want-to-call-it from Maharaji.com. It's good to know everyone seemed to enjoy the party. Bottled water and everything. I'd like to know if people pranamed to Maharaji, 'surrendered' to him, that kind of thing. I mean that's what the Inidans want, right? Simple people, just need someone to bow to, no?]

Namaskar (Greetings) from India

I just concluded the largest single Knowledge session thus far. It consisted of 5,022 participants who received the techniques of Knowledge in a large tent-like structure specifically erected for this purpose. The session started at 05:57 AM. It may seem surprising to start an event so early, but one has to beat the Indian heat. Everyone seemed to enjoy the Knowledge session. Breakfast and snacks were provided for each participant along with their own individual bottle of purified water.

At first, the hustle and bustle were quite evident as the sounds of people moving about and talking broke the silence of early dawn—a silence which is usually broken by the peacocks laying claim to their territories followed by the calls of various other birds.

As the participants settled on their cushy mats, you could feel the silence in the arena. Each one was anxiously awaiting the time for the Knowledge session to begin.
India is a place of a thousand smiles and a thousand and one mysteries. People are simple, yet they are experts at making do with whatever they have. The country is poor economically, but rich in heart. However, progress is slowly coming—a curious mixture of cows in the streets and cow-herders chatting away on their cellular phones. Everyone has time enough to slow down to say hello with a warm and friendly smile. I hope this warmth of heart never changes.

There is one more Knowledge session scheduled, to be followed by four Knowledge review sessions. The review sessions are offered as a support for those who already have the techniques of Knowledge. I periodically make such events available to those who, for whatever reason, would like a review and perhaps to renew their efforts to enjoy this life to its fullest extent.
Hopefully, this year similar events can happen in the US and Europe as well.

With warmest regards,
Maharaji.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 03:25:24 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M's Lies from India
Message:
I just concluded the largest single Knowledge session thus far. It consisted of 5,022 participants who received the techniques of Knowledge in a large tent-like structure specifically erected for this purpose.

What's funny is that this k session is smaller than the previous one past year, check the figures.
But of course it's the largest one ever, in that particular tent!
They're going to get smaller and smaller, and as he's going to tu smaller tents, these will always be the biggest ever held in those tents.
How funny!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 04:19:06 (EST)
From: Billy
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Good try, Jean-Michel
Message:
Wrong again, Jean-Michel. The 2 knowledge sessions held in India last year were for 4,520 and 4,266 people. This was the single largest knowledge session ever held that I'm aware of. Approximately 5,000 more people than post on this page received knowledge a few days ago. Try hard as you might to trivialize Maharaji and invent your own version of him, his work continues and people of all kinds continue to be deeply touched by him no matter how much you piss and moan by the side of the road. Better luck next time.

Enjoy yourself, Billy
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:43:07 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Billy
Subject: You're wrong
Message:
What I'm pointing at, is that m usually gave k to 9,000 and even more people in 2 sessions in march/april.

And he had 2 sessions of course !

Now he has only ONE session with less people, and in 1 or 2 years he's going to have the biggest 1/2 session ever!!!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:06 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Wait for it.....
Message:
J-M,

M does say that he has another K session scheduled so the total might exceed last years yet.

Not that it matters a bit, as has been said, India doesn't count.

John.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:51:49 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Then how come
Message:
The attendance never increased, but diminished?

Entrance fee/registration too high?

Poor Indians, that's probably why they say it's a money racket!
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 06:28:03 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You're right! of course...
Message:
I'm sorry, I forgot.

What really matters, is how many people receive k in India, and get darshan afterwards.

Let's say 20,000 persons receive k every year, and donate an average of 100 Rupees (3 $) at darshan: $ 60,000 minimum.
Plus 20,000 to 30,000 premies at every darshan, that's a minimum $ 120,000. Twice a year in India.
Good business Mr Rawat. I guess the next step for him is to smuggle this money back to the US, and invest. That's why he has so many seats in his G4. Every passenger (already paying for his seat) carrying $ 10,000 with him (Is it the maximum allowed for the US customs?) and Mr Rawat gets his $ back in LA. Good business.

I guess it's worth it. Whatever these people do afterwards is their problem after all. Go visit the next guru on their list most likely.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:25:07 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: M's Lies from India
Message:
Let's face it, India doesn't count in the scheme of things. There will always be Hindu Indians who will be happy to get initiated by yet another guru so that they can get an assured place in Heaven. It's part of their culture.

Throw in some free meals of rice and dal and he can continue to fill tents full of the faithful. But he's still way behind some Christian evalgelists like Billy Graham who can fill whole stadiums at the drop of a hat, in any part of the world.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:04 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: True
Message:
M's been giving k to more than 15,000 persons per year in India since many years, maybe even more before through the mahatmas.

Now he barely has 30,000 Indian premies at every event.

He used to have 100,000 to 200,000 before. I've been there in the 80s and in the 90s, the satsang place was full over the brim, bleaches and ground full, and lots of people couldn't sit. Now barely half of the ground if filled.
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Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 09:21:10 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M's report from India
Message:
I periodically make such events available to those who, for whatever reason, would like a review and perhaps to renew their efforts to enjoy this life to its fullest extent.

Yeah, listen to that ringing in your ears. It doesn't get any better than than that. What a gift. And when you're done with that, stretch your tongue back toward your nasal cavity. OOOOH, what bliss. What a comfortable position to put your tongue in for 15 minutes. Can't think of anything I'd rather do. And don't forget to focus on your breath for a spell. Such joy. Such excitement. I don't believe I can stand the suspense. Oops, I almost forgot about the inner light, the FIRST technique. What joy to just be able to close your eyes and just stare at what... what ... well, what's THERE! WHOOPEEE!! Yes, enjoying life to its fullest extent is such a joy. Oh, thank you so much, Big M, for revealing these techniques of ecstacy to me. Will a check do to show my gratitude?
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Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 22:49:43 (EST)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: M's report from India
Message:
Hey there!

That's just one leg of the stool, buddy. SS&M was the stool back in '77 -- but DARSHAN was the main thing...devotion to Guru was really the only necessity as regards Knowledge. So if your EXPERIENCE of meditation is not so great, so what? The only important thing is your connection to the master.

Of course, that part wasn't in the aspirant satsang. The aspirant satsang talked about this beautiful experience inside.

I, myself, had the most amazing experiences in meditation. Premie friends seemed envious, were envious. The programming worked for me to that extent. The suggestion of a beautiful experience produced a beautiful experience. Unfortunately, the premie satsangs full of fear of Mr. Mind also worked their suggestions inside of me. I had the most frightening experiences.

Be thankful if your experience of meditation is dull. It means you are not so open to suggestion, which is a horrible way to drift through life. I know.

Ex-premie Victoria
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