Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 43 | |
From: Mar 20, 1999 |
To: Apr 5, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:12:14 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Terry Mentzinger??? Message: Hi Guys, This morning I received the following email: 'I am trying to locate Terry Mentzinger, He was a follower of Guru Maharaj Ji during the 1970's. He also lived in California, Colorado, Georgia, Florida, New Jersey and visited several countries including Italy, India and Australia. He has not been heard from since 1982, and according to Social Security ahs not paid into SS since 182. If you have any information that may assist in locating Terry Mentzinger please e-mail me MMCommish@aol.com' I thought the request was a little terse so I asked for more info. It turns out the request comes from a cop in New Jersey, a Sergeant Mike McCann, who's trying to help someone in his area track down his long lost brother. Here's the last email he sent: 'Your questions are perfectly understandable. His brother Bill resides in my jurisdiction. He has not seen his brother since 1982. His mother and father both died recently and his brother thinks he should atleast know. It appears that they did not have a falling out, but had different beliefs. If you are able to post my request I would greatly appreciate it. It is possible that he has also past away. He has not paid into US Social Security since 1982. I would just like to answer the families questions. Thanks for your interest.' Anyone know Terry? Again, Sergeant McCann's email is: MMCommish@aol.com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:58:09 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Terry Mentzinger???- check Message: with Rainbow Grocery in Denver Also, I had to fill out a 'premie registration' form at the last program. M's organization has extensive data bases. If he is still a premie, he may be on their books as a automatic donation through a credit card. In addition at the program, after filling out a form for the file, every person was videod going through darshan. ( this by the way flipped me out- a supposed private moment between premie and master and they film it. There was no way to avoid it- I came around the corner and bang, right into the lense of a just off the immediate area.) This cop could say that he has inherited an estate, that might help to flush him out. Jim, I would email him but I am too chicken. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 01:05:27 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Terry Mentzinger???- check Message: cp, I think I'll wait and see what other leads and tips surface and then send something on to Sergeant McCann who, I understand, is having a search warrant prepared for your sock drawer even as we speak. Or was it out in the garage? Under the porch? Behind the fridge? In a false ceiling in the dog house? Buried under a stack of Playboy's in the basement? Behind your ears? Under your skin? ..sorry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 05:53:22 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Terry Mentzinger???- check Message: Terrys' being in those cities during the 70's can be linked to his involvement with the Rainbow Grocery Crowd. They were a close unit. They are still operating, though under new ownership Some of the old poeple work there, or are close by. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:19:19 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: cp Subject: Terry Mentzinger???- check Message: Hi cp & Jim, Do either of you know how M, EV, or whomever would notify 'next of kin' if a premie were to die while providing 'slave labor' in the name of 'service'? Were the 'slave centers' required to pay into SSI? How would the police go about accessing M's databases? Does M or his cronies have a 'potter's field' for the premies who 'will not be missed after 2 days' in the event that M would have a dead premie on his hands? Apparently the cult alienated this individual from his family and his brother deserves an answer. I too received the e-mail and shall respond by encouraging the police to take all legal action necessary with EV, & M in the case of this 'missing person', as they will never get a straight answer from M or his groupies! L, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:53:37 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Jim Subject: Terry Mentzinger???- check Message: JIm...I also recieved the same fm MMcommish I Passed him to the web site and you...I wonder how many more Terry M's there are out there..peace..david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:04:56 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: david m Subject: Mentzinger???- thread Message: The possibility Terry may have passed away is something that the police would have to keep in mind. That is always part of a missing person investigation. It is ALSO entirely possible that an active premie would not contact his family and friends for decades. I went through something similar. As for not paying SS- that would not surprise me either. I would not like to see this search for Terry turned into a forum thread that gets milage out of the exploiting possibility that a priemie woeuld have did in service. So you know ehat I mean? Seems like it would be easyto start to eulogize Terry to drive home our themes. Out of consideration of the family ect, I think we should wati on all that until the search is completel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:07:21 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: cp Subject: -warning- bad spelling above Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 15:18:43 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: cp Subject: Mentzinger???- thread Message: Well cp, I disagree. I do not think it is exploitation to question what exactly happens to a premies 'body' if the premie died in service. I think it would be most considerate of us as a group to help this officer. Why? Out of consideration for the family. After all, the officer is contacting us. His main objective is to find out if Terry is dead or alive! If anyone has information on Terry it would most likely be a comfort to the family in that 'good or bad' news would finally bring a sense of closure to their torment. Luv, Mary the ex Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 17:49:12 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Mentzinger???- thread Message: Mary M, Hi. Your posts always ring from a true point for me- your are sincere and clear thinking. My post about not exploiting the Terrys possible fate was aimed at another post that was starting to wax lyrical on the subject. Might be that I am a bit sensitive to the possibilty of the mixture of imagination/resentment coming in on such a sensitive subjet. I didnt mean you. Can the cops get into a data base to find a missing person? Where is Jim from anyway that he doesnt see the logic between Rainvow Groceries and the cities listed in the cops email. He must not have been in those cities or he would know that. You dont have to answer that , but he is a bit arrogant at times (just between you and me). Maybe he is just stupid. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 09:32:01 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: cp Subject: virtual... something Message: cp: Re: Can the cops get into a data base to find a missing person? Are you proposing that Terry has been hiding in virtual reality all these years? Stuck in the 'holodeck' with Data's twin? I always maintain a distance of at least 20 inches when the computer is in 'sucking mode.' -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:08:06 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Dying in His Service Message: Surely if a premie died in the service of the Living Lord, he/she would immediately ascend to some heavenly state, and the body would turn into pure divine light??? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:09:30 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: JHB Subject: spinning and spinning Message: beginning of thread: 1) the police is looking for somebody whose parent has passed away, to let him know of the situation 2) the guy happened to be involved with M. in the '80's 3) conclusion of the ex-premie forum: HE DIED DOING SERVICE AT RAINBOW GROCERIES... 4) if you spin any further, you will conclude that the body must have been hidden away in a refregirator at rainbow groceries...let's get the search warrants! maybe that person was kidnapped by rajaji and the WPC! maybe he was blackmailed by michael Dettmers...maybe Chuck Nathan arranged for an helicopter crash.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:13:40 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Orlando Subject: spinning and spinning Message: Fock You Orlando! Go eat some of your man's smegma. Sincerely, Mary M P.S. Would you like to clarify things with this officer? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:19:41 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mary M Subject: good therapy Message: feel any better now? (you did mention it is good therapy for you) 'P.S. Would you like to clarify things with this officer? ' no, i am afraid the officer would find one of Terry's legs in my freezer (Chuck did not know where to stash that one, so i did him a favor because he allowed me to get in the book buying business) I also got the gold toilet seat but that is another story Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:26:40 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Orlando Subject: No Message: 'Would you like to clarify things with this officer?' 'No' Typical... Read the thread. How's the smegma? Sincerely, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:33:16 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mary M Subject: No...because Message: that freezer thing, you know... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 10:51:38 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Orlando Subject: You're funny, Orlando Message: You really got the gold toilet? Why don't you sit on it for awhile and air yourself out? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:22:51 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Orlando Subject: spinning and spinning Message: Orlando, If you had read the thread carefully, you would have seen that the thread evolved from the original query, to speculation about what would have happened if a premie had died while doing unpaid work for the mission. You may not like speculation, but that's your problem. My contribution was, of course, a small attempt at humour. Anyway, you never answered my question in an earlier thread about what else does M give apart from the techniques of mediation. Do you feel in the mood to answer now? John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:31:32 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: JHB Subject: i am in the mood Message: Hi John 'My contribution was, of course, a small attempt at humour.' so was mine. (i guess Mary M. did not see it this way) 'Anyway, you never answered my question in an earlier thread about what else does M give apart from the techniques of mediation. Do you feel in the mood to answer now?' i did answer your question. You just did not like my answer. So i will repeat it: the only way to find out what M. imparts is to practice what he gives (Knowledge). If you REALLY want to know what he imparts, practice with sincerity in your heart and you will know. If you just want to argue about it, and convince me that it ain't so, this is not going to work. I am not in the mood to argue for argument's sake... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:55:23 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am in the mood Message: Hi O, Do you have access to the databases containing names of all individuals who at one time or another joined the cult? All the officer would like to know is whether or not Terry is 'dead or alive'. I'll forward the message you wrote that 'one of the legs is in your freezer;-)' Albeit, he might not take your levity with just a 'Fock You' for a response! P.S. - Please note I've replaced F_ck You with the Irish derivation of the term. Wasn't that nice of me? Sincerely, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 17:59:58 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Mary M... Message: How is your daughter??? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 18:47:30 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: cp Subject: Thanks cp Message: Hey cp, She had the surgery Friday and the medical staff were astounded at her recuperative ability. She spent a few days in ICU that were a bit intense. Her surgeon expects her to have 100% recovery. She is out of the hospital and doing really well. Thanks for asking, L, Mare Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 23:42:24 (EST)
From: erin Email: None To: Mary M Subject: i am in the mood Message: I'm glad you finally found a place to voice your nutty ideas, better than those uncaring assholes that just try to tip toe away from you. huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 14:20:20 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Fock or Fook Message: Mary, Did you read Jimmy Breslin's 'World Without End'? (I think it was Breslin). It was written in the 70s and was a story about the IRA. Every other word in it was 'fook'. I think this would probably sound more likely with an Irish brogue than 'fock' would. Anyway, fook Orlando and fock the horse he rode in on. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 16:24:20 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Fock or Fook or Fauk Message: Jerry, I recall reading it! Then again we could go phonetically! I concur, fook Orlando, fock the horse he rode in on, and fauk the his man (the durty, watch thievan, hooligan)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 18:34:33 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mary M Subject: i am in the mood Message: 'Do you have access to the databases containing names of all individuals who at on time or another joined the cult?' What database are you talking about? if there is one, i don't have access to it All the officer would like to know is whether or not Terry is 'dead or alive'. Why don't you direct his inquiry to Elan Vital? ' I'll forward the message you wrote that 'one of the legs is in your freezer;-)' Albeit, he might not take your levity with just a 'Fock You' for a response! ' Hopefully, the guy has a better sense of humour than you...BTW, your insinuations that you will 'forward my message' to the officer really sounds like a threat to me and i don't appreciate this. I find you very disgraceful. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 19:37:49 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am in the mood Message: Gee O, You feel threatened? So, sue me your grace! You find me disgraceful? I find your man disgraceful. He boffs way to many people IMHO! Spreads too much of his smegma around! To be sure, did ye not notice that the Officer of 'said' investigation is an Irish man? Could you provide the address and phone number of EV to the Forum? Would be quite gracious of you to do so! By the by, what DOES your man do with people who have served him, turned over their money to him, slaved at no pay to support his hedonism and then drop dead? Do the relatives receive a lovely 'premie' note attached to the 'body' thanking the mourning relatives, who will by the way remember their loved one for more than one day? Oops, I assumed EV would transport the remains. How naive of me. The note would say 'We have no use for him anymore. Please arrange for transport of the remains' 'Peace - EV' Ah, Orlando you will know when and if I decide to threaten you! You're just not worth the effort. Respectfully, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:27:36 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mary M Subject: i am in the mood Message: Mary, about EV:check out the 'enjoyinglife.org'; you will havre plenty of phone numbers there and also an e-mail adress where one can make specific inquiry. about the threat: i post here with the understanding that my privacy and anonymity will be respected, wether or not you agree with what i say. By 'refering me to a police officer' (wethere it is true or not), you have disregarded this very simple rule that i thought everyone on this forum understands and abides by. I would never do this to you because i do not consider you my enemy. You seem to have decided that everyone who is a premie is your enemy, which is not true. If there is one thing you could have done or said to drive me outta here, this is it. So congratulations, you have succeeded where others have failed. To everybody else, really, it has been a pleasure. More goodbies and appreciation specifically to Katie, Mike, Zac and Helen whose posts have been my favorite. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:30:23 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Bye! Message: As the saying goes: 'May you be half an hour in heaven before the devil knows you're dead.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:41:17 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Orlando Subject: I get moody sometimes Message: Orlando I read the thread. I don't think Mary has read enough of your posts to get where your coming from, so shrug it off and come back soon. Remember ex's have to navigate the page sometimes too. Know what I mean? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:59:09 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Zac Subject: I get moody sometimes Message: Au Contraire, Zac I don't think the big O is navigating the list. (EV no longer registered as a charitable org.... etc.) He's all smoke and mirrors. I do hope that he becomes an X soon then I shall raise a toast to his courage! Contrary Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 01:58:40 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Orlando & Mary Subject: to Orlando Message: Hi Orlando - Thanks much for the compliment in your preceding post. I really do hope that you can be persuaded not to leave the forum, as I respect your presence on here. I really appreciate you posting under ONE name, and I appreciate the fact that you don't seem to regard the ex-premies as your enemies, and that you've actually been willing to talk to people here. I am pretty sure that you're a good person (from what I can tell over the net, anyway), and I'm pretty sure that MaryM is a good person too (ditto). I am also pretty sure that the two of you could work things out if you were able to sit down together face to face - maybe over a cup of coffee (or a few IRISH coffees if things got rough :). So I hope you do hang in here and keep on posting. You too, MaryM. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 09:53:56 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am in the mood Message: O: Re: All the officer would like to know is whether or not Terry is 'dead or alive'. Why don't you direct his inquiry to Elan Vital? Clearly because EV is not likely to provide answers. Has someone explained cult mentality to you yet? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:05:34 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: i am in the mood Message: Scott- I don't think it's Orlando's job or duty to relay information to ELK or M.Org. If the cop can find this page he can find them. Of course he'll get more info from this page because this is where people are allowed to interact and officially EV will probably say we never heard of him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:43:36 (EST)
From: Sleuth Email: None To: Zac Subject: i am in the mood Message: The cop has probably already followed the lead to Rainbow Grocery and found him by now. These guys are good and don't waste any time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 00:10:41 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Sleuth Subject: i am in the mood Message: Is there a Rainbow Grocery store in Seattle? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 04:13:47 (EDT)
From: Travelling Salesman Email: None To: Liz Subject: Rainbow Grocery! Message: Yes, there is a Rainbow Grocery in Seattle. It's on 15th and something north Group Death (Group Health.) Don't forget to visit the sister store, a vitamin and herb store just to the south of it. There's the Denver store still on Colfax, but they changed the name and I'm not sure about the ownership. Don't know about Chicago anymore, but there were 3 or 4. Atlanta, Kansas City and others. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 17:19:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: You call that an answer? Message: John: Why won't you answer my earlier question? What else does m give beside the techniques? Orlando: I did answer it. The answer is that I can't answer it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 22:25:13 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Re: i am in the mood Message: OK, I accept that practicing the techniques can give amazing experiences. Now, I ask again, what, apart from the techniques that can give amazing experiences, does M give? Come on, give an answer..... John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:05:34 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: i am in the mood Message: John: Re: Now, I ask again, what, apart from the techniques that can give amazing experiences, does M give? Heartburn? Someone's giving it to me. It MUST be him. (I have learned a lot about logic from Orlando.) -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 09:46:09 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Orlando Subject: in the mood Message: O: Re: Do you feel in the mood to answer now? I was going to tell John not to hold his breath, but had second thoughts because I figured it might be another technique revision by M. It's magical. Hold your breath long enough, with sincerity in your heart, and you'll certainly know God (or some fac). I have no doubt that if HE turns out to be different from whoever it is you know now (or now know) you'll let us know, you know? Let's settle this once an for all... -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 17:48:20 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: JHB Subject: spinning and spinning Message: ... what else does M give apart from the techniques of mediation. Why ''shaktipat'' of course, and it opens your third eye, silly, everybody knows that... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 17:57:49 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: gerry Subject: hey gerry, did you know Message: that you just gave an answer to the question that was asked of orlando? Only one problem, he couldn't answer it! It takes an 'ex' to answer these esoteric questions. Must be the K-lite.... he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 18:47:02 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Orlando Subject: laughing and laughing Message: Good one Big O. The point is we have everyone thinking now, the brain is engaged and we have Premie humor. Be it at the expense of the ex-forum. Keep it coming. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 18:44:24 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thank from EV Message: Today, I received a thank you from EV for my contributions during 1998. It was in the form of a card with a picture of M, and the text on the front saying 'Thank you... from Elan Vital'. There was also a letter with a request to increase my donations for 1999 because of the additional expenditure required. The letter was unsigned. Regarding the items requiring money, I quote:- 'These challenges are already coming into view. Expanded world tours with more Knowledge Sessions are envisioned to respond to the increasing number of aspirants. The establishment of Knowledge Centres is becoming a special priority. Preparations for a possible international event at Amaroo are now getting into gear - expanding the campground capacity, extending the ampitheater to seat 5,000, and further improving roads, services and and facilities.' Well, better get that cheque book out. John. PS. For any worried exes out there, please be assured that I don't think I'll be getting a thank you card next year. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 18:47:59 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: JHB Subject: What are Knowledge Centres Message: and why are they being 'established.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 19:01:24 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: An ashram by any other name Message: JW: Still sux!!!! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 19:04:13 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: JW Subject: What are Knowledge Centres Message: I think Amaroo and the Argentian place are Knowledge Centres. M talked about getting more on quite a few occasions. He said the problem with Europe was finding a place there the weather was pretty good for outdoor events, there was plenty of land for privacy, and local planning (zoning) laws would allow the building of the necessary minimum structures. It's odd he hasn't got one in the US, but maybe he's afrraid of Waco, or Rajneesh type, associations. I believe EV are looking for an indoor venue in the UK. In terms of what they are for, I guess K sessions, aspirant indoctrination (oops, preparation), meditating (oops, practicing), and watching videos. Not sure what else. Bring back the Palace of Peace! Hey, any UK premies remember that old cinema in Camberwell we had for a few months in 1980? M never came to it - don't blame him really! John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 19:22:27 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JHB Subject: What are Knowledge Centres Message: JHB: 'local planning (zoning) laws would allow the building of the necessary minimum structures.' What would this mean? I know... I know... A palace for him and a porta-johnny for us, right? snicker snicker... ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:36:06 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: JHB Subject: What are Knowledge Centres Message: So, what is the point of knowledge centres? They sound like permanent festival sites like M used to talk about, only he said we ashramites would live there and do things like milk cows. It was to be in Florida, undoubtedly in a bug-infested swamp. He said Northern Florida was too cold in the winter for him so it was going to be in Southern Florida. The Lord of the Universe likes HOT climates and so Europe must be one of his less favorite places. I'm sure Malibu is too cold for him, but in order to live the way he does, he needs to be surrounded by the other jet-setters that inhabit Malibu, so he has to put up with it. He loved the Miami climate and I've heard that Amaroo gets damned hot too. Of course, he has all the luxury of prevalent air conditioning, just like he did at Kissimmee, while the rest of us baked in the sun. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 04:25:20 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: JHB Subject: Palace of Peace Message: Hi John The Palace of Peace was around from 1973 to about 1976/77 and was based in East Dulwich. It was taken over by a company and is now called 'London House'. As far as I remember, BM did go there once in the early '70s. Nowdays the focus of comedy is just across the road at The East Dulwich Tavern, where a comedian named Steve Frost runs a comedy theatre (he was the guy in the Carling Black Label TV ads, but I personally think that BM was and is a bigger joker). ex- Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 04:40:33 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: Camberwell not Palace of Peace Message: Ex-Mug, Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know about the Palace of Peace and first saw M there. If you were around in 1980, DLM took a short lease (6 mths?) on a long closed down cinema in Camberwell. (Maybe we got it free.) Anyway, it was in such a shitty state. I remember cleaning out back, where the main problem was removing all the used hypodermics where the junkies used to shoot up. I also remember the programmes we had there while M was at Reigate, and we would work ourselves into a frenzy trying to vibe M to come. He never did. I remember some premie later giving satsang about it, saying how foolish we were thinking M would come to 'the armpit of London'. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 06:47:48 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: JHB Subject: Camberwell not Palace of Peace Message: Hi John Thanks, I didn't realise :) Camberwell, succers for punishment, eh? ex- Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 01:50:02 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: JHB Subject: GM motors..anyone remember? Message: I once worked for the premie mini-cab company GM motors(circa 1975). We were allowed to take 20% of the takings, but were made to feel guilty if we did not donate it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 21:23:00 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: in really bad taste Message: The Knowledge Centers (KC) are being built for us, the eXers. We will be rounded up, taken to KCs and forced to watch Maharaji videos ala Clockwork Orange until we re-discover That bliss, That experience inside. I think that the rounding up of people will be based on the number of posts they've made here multiplied by the amount of damage each post might have done to the Master's efforts. Also factored in will be how important you were in the organization. The first shall be last or something like that. Fortunately, for me I was a nobody, I am a nobody, and I will continue to be a nobody. Besides, I'm the only one on the Forum who ever stands up against all the vicious lies that you guys are spreading about Maharaji. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 21:35:14 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: barney Subject: seriously, though the $$$ Message: There is no end to their gall when they have to ask for money for spreading knowledge when the fool on the hill spreads his fat ass over golden toilets that are flushed with Perrier water. I used to think that my giving money to Maharaji and EV was better spent than by giving to the United Way or other oraganizations because Maharaji could teach a man to fish and end human suffering once and for all. I now believe that most of that money is misspent on Maharaji's lavish and outrageous lifestyle. (WE NEED A ZOOM LENS PHOTO OF THAT HOUSE OF HIS!) And, in fact all that money cannot even relieve Maharaji's own suffering as the money is the source of his sickness. STOP THE MADNESS! DON'T GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY! HE DOESN'T NEED ANYMORE OF YOUR MONEY! MANY PREMIES ARE SO FAR BEHIND IN THE GAME THAT THEIR ONLY HOPE IS A RETIREMENT ASHRAM! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:28:29 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: barney Subject: Serious Question Message: I just had an image in my mind of who you might be. Did you, in 1976, attend a Halloween party in Oak Park dressed as Joni Mitchell? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 04:19:24 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: Serious Answer! Message: Close, but no Cigar, there fella! That's the best one I've ever heard! I can barely type! Me as Joni Mitchell! sadsflkjasdfalkjik~!@!#@#$% Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:57:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: barney Subject: Serious Answer! Message: Sorry Barney, I thought I might remember you, but it appears I was off the mark, maybe by quite a bit. I guess it was those two glasses of this great wine I had sitting in front of my computer last night. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 14:02:06 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: Serious Answer! Message: Ok, it could have been worse. You could have thought that it was me dressed as Divine! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 03:07:42 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: barney Subject: poor poor poor maharaji Message: That's one of EV's and Yoram's favourite trick: when the cash flow is receding, they start asking money for new mega projects (it usually works and they get millions). Of course most of it is never achieved, and most of the money is then given to m himself because 'he knows how to use it properly' (investing). But lots of premies give money on these occasions when they usually don't, out of guilt, maybe with the hope they'll get to see m more when these projects will be over! Good luck! As most of the premies haven't seen m for a while, and are NOT going to see him for a while as it looks like, I guess the situation is ripe to ask for donations in order to allow poor m to show up in spite of his enemies! Some of these projects of course are worked on, with premies' own money, or programs' registration fees. Of course most of the premies have absolutely NO WAY of knowing about this. And the story goes on... Premies, you're lied to! Ask to see EV's books!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 18:04:14 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: barney Subject: in all seriousness Message: barney: The KC's actually worry me. 'A place where there is privacy?' They are (apparently) strategically placed within countries that don't have a truely significant premie population (why?) and he wants them as remote as possible????? Shades of Jim Jones... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 18:56:01 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mike Subject: Strategically placed? Message: Cheaply bought is more like it! I been around this awhile and the last thing I would remotely consider is a Jim Jones episode. M is enjoying his life except for having to host Amtext parties and the like and why is he gonna kill the birds that lay the golden eggs? He's not. What he does is not illegal in the US and it's one of the best gigs going. Simple as that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 19:17:23 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Zac Subject: Strategically placed? Message: Zac: Normally, I would agree with you. The same could (and was) said about Jim Jones and company with their move to South America. Problem is.... it happened and it happened in a way that was never guessed. I say it is wise to watch similar activities to ensure that it never happens again. If you were to ask me, do I think M capable of doing something like that, I would give you a resounding NO in response.... BUT, I would have said that about Jones, too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:12:15 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mike Subject: Strategically placed? Message: I remember the Jones incident but I can't say I read the book. His plan must have been falling apart for him to get so desperate. Thankfully M has plenty of money and can simply ride off into the sunset if things deteriorate. One nice thing about the premie trip is that there are plenty of bongo's and other independents who will not be lining up for their koolaid. Unless they put it on his socks! That would be some darshan recovery room! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 09:29:49 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Zac Subject: The BM's strategy Message: This is what is officialy asked to propose a land for a country: 1/ The land should be not too far away from an intl airport where he will be able to land his jet. I'd say no more than 1 hour drive for him. 2/ Enough foreseeable time without rain to have outdoor programs once or twice a year. 3/ Local EV able to manage the situation... 4/ Land as cheap as possible. 5/ Privacy: he doesn't want anybody to enter the land during the programs, etc, and be able to have his own 'security' working. Controlled environment. I'd say that was is not officialy asked for: Possibility to build a residence on the land. Enough of new local financial resources. And I think that's the reason why he hasn't purchased other lands yet. He doesn't want to see his other projects hindered by a new one. On the contrary, he's expecting that a new 'project' would increase his income (darshan, gifts, etc), and boost the other 'projects' with more 'inspiration' and enthusiasm. I'm sure he's expecting a lot more (gifts) from Europe, as plenty of European premies can't afford to get to India or Africa (darshan), or if they do, can't 'dedicate' enough there! Housing facility in the neighbourhood: enough big hotels to house the majority of premies. EV's travel agency should be able to deal with those hotels (and get their 10% minimum commission of course). Same thing for flights for premies to get there, organized by EV's travel agents, etc, requiring intl airport of course. I'd also say that he wants a minimum investment on the land to have very cheap programs, in order to make a maximum profit. Premies use to make huge donations for the lands' projects, which is of course not used for the lands. Funds get to local EVs, and local EVs 'donate' those funds to the EV Foundation (Switzerland), and god only knows where the money goes then. Works on the lands are funded with the registration fees, and the necessary funds are borrowed from premies before the programs/registration to make the works. Not speaking of the huge amounts of cash that are smuggled and funnelled to various places. Yiippeeeeeee!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 11:15:22 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: The BM's strategy Message: 'Premies use to make huge donations for the lands' projects, which is of course not used for the lands.' This is of course extremely unethical and shows Maharji's total contempt for the suckers that cough up the money. How does one have trust and faith in this teacher? What exactly is the connection between the student and 'this teacher'? Does anyone believe a single word he says? 'The internet is a waste of time.'-GMJ 1997 'I need a web site.' -GMJ 1998 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 12:12:48 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Zac Subject: Not HIS fault you stupid! Message: extremely unethical and shows Maharji's total contempt for the suckers that cough up the money. This is always the premies and organizers (chosen by him) who've fucked up everything .... HOW DARE you accuse your beloved master. HE is beyond everything in this world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 13:54:09 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Zac Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: I have heard from someone I trust, who worked closely with M's finances that Maharaji regularly lied about what money was being raised for, and money was all raised in CASH, and there is absolutely not financial accountability. Maharaji NEVER discloses how much money he raises or how it it spent. For example, I know from my own experience that in the late 70s we were instructed to LIE about the 707 and say the money being raised was for a 'world tour.' It was just blantant lying. And then there is the testimony of former DLM honchos that 60% of the money donated to DLM (remember the AMP program?) went, not to support the spreading of knowledge, but to support Maharaji and his lavish lifestyle. I also have it on good authority, that some of the later plane fundraisings were completely fraudulent. The planes were actually LEASED, and the money raised to purchase a plane (millions) was used for whatever M wanted to use it for, including, in one instance, a vacation for he and his family in Bali that cost $15,000 PER DAY. Since all the money was raised in CASH and since M is accountable to no one and discloses financial information to no one, he can get away with whatever he wants to. Also, as JM has mentioned he raises money for something and then just whimsically 'decides' he doesn't want it (like that apartment in Paris) and then uses the money for whatever he wants to use it for -- god only knows what. If M is on the up and up financially, why doesn't he have regular disclosure to the premies, and the world, about how he spends the money that it raised like any other non-profit religious or charitable organization does? What is he trying to hide? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 17:50:56 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: Thanks for posting these facts JW. It just keeps getting worse doesn't it. This makes me think of Barney's poll. Who can get away with this kind of behavior? Humanitarian Leaders- Nope they'd get through in jail Meditation Teachers- Nope not enough donations God Incarnate- Nope doesn't need to operate this way Fraud- Nope He'd eventually be torn to shreds by the people he duped Master- Yes, Because no one knows who he is or what he does including his followers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 19:39:18 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Zac Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: This was way after my time as a premie, but someone a while back posted on the forum that Maharaji gave some kind of presentation to the premies a few years ago and used graphs and charts to explain how money was short -- That it cost more to do everything than money was coming in. But what I heard was that M had all these charts and graphs, but had no figures whatsoever connected with them. They were just bars and graphs with no amounts. Did you attend that presentation? God, if that's true, he must really think premies are idiots. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:30:16 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: I attended one of those in Miami. He was pitching the room, soft sell with graphics. There were numbers. I remember that. X amount received knowledge this year, visited x amount of countries but I left feeling left out. Because it was the same old vague story. When I heard there was going to be a presentation I thought Maharaji was going to open up and share something meaningful about his work with us. Inside indicator was malfunctioning again. It was a total gloss-over meant for individuals who graduated eight grade or could care less. Most in attendence seemed to be in the second catagory. Thinking back it was kinda like your friend coming over to sell you on Amway. You let him or her do the presentation then say politely thanks, but no thanks. The highlight was when he showed the amounts of rotting vegetables at the Indian program. He joked. We all laughed and we got his point. Here is your stupid explaination and now I need more money. When it comes to money, strickly money, I think he is playing the premies for all they are worth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 09:45:13 (EST)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Zac Subject: Charts and Rotting Vegies Message: Hey, Charts worked for Ross Perot a few years back...was this when M began working with charts? Or most likely a few years afterward, since M is pretty slow to catch on to things. ??? The highlight was when he showed the amounts of rotting vegetables at the Indian program. He joked. We all laughed and we got his point. Too weird...was his point relative to the famous rotten vegetables satsang...you know, the rotten vegies inside all the exes???? Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:11:58 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Charts and Rotting Vegies Message: You got it. They of course weren't rotten on his chart but veggies on his chart only makes me think rotten, so the post goes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 16:33:00 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Zac Subject: Charts and Rotting Vegies Message: Yes, I've been to such presentations in Miami and Thousand Oaks or wherever. I've also sat through local presentations made by the big wheels. Even as a believer I was skeptical of the presentations because there was very little quanitification and a lot of omitted information. The purpose, obviously, was to guilt premies into giving more, which I did. Nevertheless, it disturbed me and was a drip for me. One figure was the number of regular monthly contributors giving over a certain amount and I was in there. I believe that the number was something under 1000. Actually, those numbers were interesting because the number of regular contributors was fairly low. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 10:53:50 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Zac Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: There were numbers. I remember that. X amount received knowledge this year, visited x amount of countries but I left feeling left out. Because it was the same old vague story. But what about dollar amounts -- amounts raised and spent on various things he was doing. Any disclosure on finances? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 15:02:34 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Unethical Fundraising Message: That's a tough one. I remember gallons of jet fuel consumed, miles travelled.....Can't say for certain. There may have been amounts raised and spent on EV Joe, but it's been awhile. Maybe someone else who was there can remember. Miloochie were you at that event? I know he did say 'Do you know who the largest contributor to Elan Vital was? It was me...(pause for effect) I contributed just over $16,000 this year.' He has me beat. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 17:52:39 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Aren't EV's books public? Message: As EV's a charity, wouldn't it be possible to have a look into it's books? Same thing for the EV Foundation in Switzerland. I gave lots of money to these organizations, I now have doubts reg the way this money has been used, isn't it possible to have them audited? Don't we have some legal possibility to do this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 19:02:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Aren't EV's books public? Message: According to the Registrar of Charitable Trusts in California, Elan Vital, as of about 1989 is no longer a charitable organization. The Registrar told me that they were told that EV no longer did charitable work. If you donate to Elan Vital, I would imagine the money goes to putting on programs/events and paying M's outlandish expenses in connection with them, including leasing the plane he owns. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 20:56:45 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: JW Subject: Aren't EV's books public? Message: JW, My thank you cards the last few years have included a sheet with the amount I donated and stated that EV donations are tax deductable. I'm not sure for the exact wording, but I thought in order to be tax deductable, EV must be a nonprofit charity. I think I even got one for 1998 with the same wording. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 13:01:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Denise Subject: That's What I Thought Message: I think Elan Vital is still incorporated as a non-profit corporation, but they are no longer registered with the California Registrar of Charitable Trusts, which you are supposed to be if you are charitable, and people deduct donations from their income taxes. Elan Vital's domicile state is Colorado, so maybe that's where someone should check. I think the reason they aren't registered is that if you are, you have to make financial information available to the public. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:56:57 (EST)
From: Alonzo Front Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The devil did it Message: There’s a church on the northern side of town called ' l’église de la Visitation ' that was built overnight on July 23rd 1851. At the time, the parish had only a few parishioners. Historians report thirty families. A church was needed to attract more parishioners and more parishioners were needed to build a church. It was as simple as that. Reverend Pinot, the parish priest was called 'Pinot-curé' by his parishoners*. The French pun is attributed to a choirboy he was reported to be pursuing. An unsubstantiated rumour. Another rumour, historians were unable to deny says his brother Paul-André who migrated to South-America is the ancestor to general Pinochet. Neighbouring street was named after him 'P. -A. –Pinot' Street. It now spells Papineau. The current parish priest also bears the same name: reverend Papineau. How strange. On July 23rd 1851, as payment for the construction of the church, Reverend Pinot agreed with the contractor he’d allow the devil to take the soul of the first parishioner to receive communion after completion of the church given construction was completed before sunrise on July 24th. Before sunrise on July 24th, reverend Pinot took a stone out of the northern wall by the river. The devil came during the first mass to be celebrated there to take delivery of his soul and had to go back empty-handed. To this day, a stone is still missing in the northern wall of the church. It is commonly known every July 23rd, at 3pm, some stonemason knocks at the vicarage and offers his services. Tradition has the priest receive communion first on every July 24th. In French, 'Pinot-curé' sounds like 'Pine-au-cul', loosely translated as 'Pin in ass'. There is a bridge crossing the St-Laurence River into Québec City that fell twice. The engineer with Dominion Bridge company responsible for its third construction and second reconstruction was a little uneasy. He called upon an expert who, until then had made a speciality of church building. When the expert arrived at the Dominion Bridge office, his black cloak and wide rimmed hat did not go unnoticed. With a devilish voice he proposed, along his help, to provide a perpetual guarantee against any eventual collapse. For payment, he asked for the soul of the first person to cross the bridge. The engineer agreed. On the day of the inauguration, the minister for public works made a speech and cut the traditional ribbon. Everyone applauded. The bishop blessed the bridge and made some prayers in Latin. Everyone joined hands. The engineer then asked the bishop to cross the bridge first. He refused. He said he was glad to bless bridges and everything he would ask him to bless short of a protestant church but given the work it took to absolve everyone of his own sins, mortal and venial, he would certainly not go to hell out of generosity. Not even for the smaller half of an eternity. The engineer then asked the minister who refused with word and gesture. He said he chose to become a politician never to have to make sacrifices and wasn't about to change his mind. The minister suggested they'd ask the president of Dominion Bridge since Protestants do not believe in the devil. Unfortunately the guy was a catholic Irishman and refused as well. They finally agreed to send a cat across the bridge. In the middle of the bridge, the cat burst into smoke. They found some thin hair and traces of blood, but it seemed the cat had vanished. Under Québec's bridge, a flame was lit to commemorate the cat whose soul burns in hell for eternity. Some sceptics pretend the flame is there to guide boats. Do not believe them, they are mistaken. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 20:47:12 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Alonzo Front Subject: The devil made me post it Message: Hey guy, I like your weird post and appreciate you keeping us up to speed on your interaction with the prems. Didn't want this thread to sit completely blank. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 12:38:05 (EST)
From: Alonzo Front Email: None To: Runamok Subject: The devil made me post it Message: Thanks. I am weirder each day. Most of us know I am and I work hard on it. I'm glad you liked it. As a matter of fact, it isn't completely innocent. These superstitions which I sort of made-up (not completely from scratch though) are cousins to other superstitions most of hold true. As a matter of fact, superstitions come in two flavors. True superstitions and false superstitions. True superstitions are those I believe in. Give this a little thought. It ain't so stupid as most think. That is my point. And it was fun to make. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:50:28 (EST)
From: Alonzo Front Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premies.org Message: It seemed to me some of us were interested in knowing what harlan had to say. Here is the end of the conversation including the last entries. There's no answer anymore. I guess my last entry was too much for him or he got bored with it or he read some of it here. ... Premies.org Hello …., The stationary is nice. Yes now I do get your name in the header but it was previously missed by me? Maybe it was because we received the mail from the forms on-line.. you have to put your name in there or we don't know it. I guessed on the French from the electronic evidence of your computer being programmed with French language email client. Your letter has me grinning. LOL the part about the names. Yes my namesake is Harlan County Kentucky.. my family is from there on my dad's side.. however I was born and raised on farms in Indiana. Well I am looking this over here and I don't think you are in need of a password.. all there is in there is pictures of Maharaji.. which you would probably not want to look at if He's not the Lord to you... Now on the other hand the part of the site where you can 'touch base with old friends and renew with the 'culture' of DLM, DUO, Elan Vital, Vision International' is wide open.. Premies are on the chat at all different hours of the day and night. You are welcome to look for your old friends there. Now if you are ever overwhelmed with a devotional feeling for Maharaji (again) you might need and desire to look at our pictures of Him. Meanwhile, it's nice to hear from you anytime. LOVE IS ALL – Ray From Alonzo Rejection hurts, but don't worry, I'll get over it. (There is nothing a glass of Burbon can't heal.) On one hand this... One one hand, I think you took a good decision not to grant me a password. I won't conform expectations, I'm firm and unannimous with this. You decided to make an homogeneous space for people who behave as expected, right? Right. (Then, if there only is photographs of Maharaj ji there, I tend to imagine these must be very revealing. Being curious, it hurts even more not to be allowed to see them. Lucky me there also is Jack Daniels old number 7.) On the other hand, that... There is a second hand. I think you made a bad decision to chose to make it a protected area as if you had to get protection from outside agressions. This attitude is, - strictly from my point of view, need I say - leadind towards antagonism and integrism. You and I remember it once produced raw material for lamshades and soap don't we? On the third hand... I would regret not to mention the third hand which I use to pick my nose. I wonder what Maharaj ji's attitude is towards this defensive attitude. I remember he used to be uneasy with media and thought he was unjustly criticized. As a matter of fact, he never dealt well with criticism. He was on a talk show in 1973 with a dude Dick Clavett (or something) and had Time and Newsweek cover Millenium 73. Not much since. Decades have gone by since. He had planned becoming world renowned. Isn't this defensive attitude counter-productive a little? Thanks for your time. I hope I did not take too much of it. So long partner. . Premies.org Hello again …., So nice to know your name. Sorry I was so stupid about seeing it in your return address. I (also) happen to like the effect of alcohol myself. I can imagine that my death may be perpetrated by a liver failure. The pictures... are all just plain old pictures. Maharaji here there and everywhere, premies in groups around Him. Nothing really special as far as pictures go. Mostly they are old pictures. By that I mean we just scan published pics that are not being sold at present. The password thing is to regulate the bandwidth. There are literally thousands of premies looking at the pictures all the time. We also want to prevent hyperlinking. Now you might say.. well one more person looking won't hurt the bandwidth... but think of this analogy... I was told by a Jewish friend ( I asked him what his family had taught him about handling money with success) 'if you watch after the pennies, the dollars will watch after themselves'. As for the rejection? My personal experience is that I will lead myself into everything I feel, and I usually see it coming. So, (go Freudian with me here) I figure you set yourself up for the rejection. Anyway I hope you do get to grinnin' as soon as possible. Nose picking I believe could be the foundation of a new cult or religion.. we all do it - why not worship it? Just imagine.. posters of celebrities with big goobers on their fingers. Well.. something had to replace cigarettes.... You sure you don't miss being a Premie? LOVE IS ALL - Ray From Alonzo Front You asked me a question. If I missed being a premie. This question seem irrelevent. Remember. I don't buy the duality, the disinction between being either a premie or a non-premie. It don't apply. It don't stick. I was not introduced to Knowledge to end-up belonging to a group, a school or a sect. I like to imagine myself as a free being. To imagine oneself, to create oneself, to invent oneself. All these are very stong expression which deserve a little thought. My problem with Maharaj ji is sometimes he goes along with these ideas of free-being-kind-of-thing while at some other moments, he asks for alienation, submission, devotion and conformity. I see a contradiction I never could solve otherwise than by supposing he is a trifle manipulative. If you have any other solution to propose, I'd like to read about it. You seem to like pictures. I found this one. I hope you're not offended. (You won't be if you have a little humor as I think you do.) I kind of hesitated and finally told my old self you could always blame it on El Nino or Shalman Rushdie if you thought it wrong, right? http://www.angelfire.com/de/jur/answertocritics.html P.S.: Colonel Sanders First name spells 'Harland' How do you account for that? I'm puzzled. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 03:15:55 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Alonzo Front Subject: Premies.org Message: Is it just me or is this Harlan guy getting a little anti-semitic with his comments about his 'penny counting, Jewish friend'? I'm tired of rednecks making ignorant stereotypical remarks like this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 11:29:43 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Marshall Subject: My email to Harlan Message: You're right, Marshall. That's why I sent Harlan: Harlan, Your comment about jews and their money reveals an incredible level of ignorance. But then, as a premie, you cultivate that, don't you? Go fuck yourself, Harlan. Please. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 17:20:56 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Marshall Subject: RED-NECKS! Message: Hey Marshall: I'm tired of us red-necks taking all this heat for things we don't do!!!!! That was a pretty loose and discriminatory statement aimed in my general direction..... he he he :-) But I forgive you anyway.....I'm a new-age redneck! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 09:58:35 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Alonzo Front Subject: Premies.org Message: Your email with Harlan (except for the 'nose-picking' ones) is preserved onsite now. Thanks for sharing these with everyone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:36:28 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sheep shit all over the place Message: Personally, I find it boring and somewhat sad that this moron is taking over the forum. It lowers the quality and degrades the conversation immensely. Shades of Keith. Pass is a meglomaniac who can't get enough attention. It's pathetic. May I suggest that we just ignore him? He's a distraction and a time waster. I did my best to get him to go away. I wish he were simply locked out from posting. I'm sure he's getting on more nerves than just mine. If no one responds to him, maybe he'll go away. And yes Sheep, I am trying to get you kicked off the forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:48:48 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Good fertilizer Message: is good for any garden. You address everything BUT the substance of what I have been saying...you have critiqued my: 1) opinion 2) style 3) where-you-think-I'm-coming-from 4) feelings about Maharaji 5) person But you haven't been straight with the conversation, dealing with what we are talking about. If you disagree, then you find fault in some other aspect and hack away. So go for it, Gerry (with a capital G I am happy to see). Create a one opinion site and maybe you'll be just like the other one someday that you ciritcize, if you really try. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:25:23 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Sheep shit all over the place Message: Actually Gerry, what seems to happen is that exes who don't know him as well respond to him trying to be polite and he gloms on to them. I have to agree, he's become a total pest, without any kind of regard for what we're actually trying to do here. Although it might seem extreme to some people who feel caught in the middle, it made all the sense in the world to me when you started the Sheep Channel. And it smelled just like Shp spirit when Shippy proceeded to threaten legal action. What a whiner! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:44:09 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Sheep shit all over the place Message: I thought maybe giving him a place to outgas would relieve a little of the pressure. He is reacting in a very Keith-like manner. We can expect an explosion followed by some very nasty threatening language any time now. Then sheep will be put out to pasture for good. We'll have to endure, I guess, for the time being. Like I said, I won't be indulging this cult-stunted perrenial teenager anymore. ''Fully mature Ram'' ha! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 18:02:20 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: gerry Subject: premie bs Message: Seems like he's a lot worse than Keith, but maybe I wasn't around for some of Keith's worst. Reading thru threads that are active right now, there's Mike trying to talk to him and getting exasperated. There's Victoria being politely conversational and then posting that she can't really communicate with him. JHB is about the same. I guess if you post with a stalker's tenacity, people will respond not realising you're a psycho premie looking to be the center of the limelight. Then, each one discovers the guy can't get enough attention and that he thinks this is the currently-a-premie online brainwashing center. I imagine the guy doesn't have too many friends. He sure is good at alienating people! If he had some training, I'm sure he could do some organizational work for Elan Vital. He has that fanaticism thing that works so well in a cult. Alas, the Ex-Forum watchers have probably ruled him psycho. too. I posted several encouraging posts to him originally, including two requests to move to email (to keep the satsang offline). I doubt if he even remembers any of that. He's so attention starved. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 18:27:39 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Wasting time with SHP Message: Runamok, I know I'm wasting my time trying to argue with SHP, in that I know he's not going to think about anything I say or change. However, as a recent ex it feels kind of therapeutic to argue with premies. It helps to get my thoughts in order, and it certainly helps to see what bullshit premies believe. Like many premies I stopped talking about M to non-premies many years ago. I also hardly ever discussed him with premies. So this forum is helping bring a part of my brain back to life. All the best, John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:20:13 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: JHB Subject: SHP makes a good vomit bag.nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 18:42:25 (EST)
From: exxxx Email: None To: Runamok Subject: premie bs Message: I think Sanford is currently unemployed and doesn't have a lot to do. This may explain why he has become ubiquitous. I remember Sanford Pass (I guess it's Sanford H. Pass) from 20 years ago. He does not appear to have changed much. I suggest we all start calling him Sanford. 'Sheep' is kind of beneath us, don't you think? I agree if you ignore Sanford he might go away, but given Jim's compulsiveness that isn't likely. I now notice there are two threads of which Sanford is the subject, one of which is Jim calling him a liar. If he is just looking for attention he is getting it here in spades. But I don't think he holds a candle to Keith. Keith was in a class all by himself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 20:39:57 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: exxxx Subject: premie bs Message: When there is an errand to be done, no matter how messy, avoiding it won't make it get done by itself. I don't think we're capable of ignoring anyone, because some of us (and for good reason as JHB points out) will exchange pleasantries. We are, after all, reasonably nice people (considering the tons of rotten veggies within us) who are actually capable, for the most part of tolerating premies who don't try to give us satsang. I think confronting Shp is as good a shot as any. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 21:45:00 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Runamok Subject: premie bs Message: people who are actually capable, for the most part of tolerating premies who don't try to give us satsang. This is exactly how I feel, too. After all, 'satsang' is nothing but propaganda. It's fair to use propaganda tactics back. But this particular brand of preachy satsang is hard to stomach, I agree. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 22:29:19 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: gerry Subject: peachy satsang + Forum = ??? Message: peachy satsang + Forum = Premie BS + Master's Methane*** You bet it's hard to stomach! Can't keep it down. And if it does manage to bypass my gag reflex it rips through me. (***See Professor's HBB discourses that have passed into the ethers.) Corollary: Jim Jones + Koolaid = 978 bodies rotting in the jungle Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:41:10 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: barney Subject: The Guru's Gas Message: I loved the Professor & Runamock's very erudite dialogue on the subject of the Guru's gas. I was wondering if there was any possibility that the Guru might spontaneously combust due to all the hot air. Would the Professor care to comment? Or perhaps Runamock may have something more to add as I noted he had published a great deal on the subject. An annotated bibliography on Drek's webpage of this research would be most illuminating! I am writing a doctoral dissertation entitled: 'Irritable Bowel Syndrome & the Guru or I Just Can't Stomach this Shit No More' and so this research is most germane. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 00:03:37 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: barney Subject: Barn, I said 'preachy' not pea Message: chy satsang! (nt) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 03:52:12 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: gerry Subject: peachy fine preaching to me Message: Gerry, obviously it's been too long for you and you've forgotten how really peachy satsang can be. That beautiful experience starts to happen when you abandon all logic and surrender to someone who has nothing to say. Oh come on you guys! If you make him go away he'll just make his own webpage and take everybody with him. Don't ruin it for the rest of us who have nothing better to do and are looking for something to fill the vacuum in our lives. Hell, I just saw the moon for the first time in months the other night. And, damn, how does that thing stay up there? I see it, but I can't feel it. What the fuck is it all about anyway? If all you can give me is stuff about Futures and you can't give me any answers on the real important questions about life I'm gonna ask Him, man. Shit, how am I ever gonna learn anything if the neanderthal's scare off all the thinkers. P.S. to shp, you gotta learn that sometimes quiting and walking down the road is the best thing to do. It hurts for a little while and then you realize how fucked up it all was and you get better. There's just no way you can win here, man. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 15:57:55 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: barney Subject: I'm into win-win situations Message: Barney, 'P.S. to shp, you gotta learn that sometimes quiting and walking down the road is the best thing to do. It hurts for a little while and then you realize how fucked up it all was and you get better. There's just no way you can win here, man.' Quitting what? What road? Who wants to win here? You think he's a fraud and I don't. Other than that, I'm sure we'd all agree on alot of other stuff, but that's all off-topic, right? If I didn't give a shit about all people I wouldn't post here. I'd silently tell you to go f yourselves and go on with my life. But since we both had the same teacher at one time and those here got turned off, I wanted to know why, for all of our sakes. That's a natural reaction from a reasonable person, as I see it. Now that I have heard alot of the dirt presented in the editorial fashion particular to this site, I haven't heard anything so damning that it would cause me to split from him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 18:37:56 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: SHP Subject: What does he teach revisited. Message: SHP, I thought we established that he doesn't teach anything apart from 4 meditation techniques. As he taught you those some time ago, why are you still calling him your teacher? I had a maths teacher at school called Joe. I can still remember him teaching me calculus. I can remember some of the calculus, but Joe plays no part in my life now. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 10:18:18 (EDT)
From: SHP Email: None To: JHB Subject: What does he teach revisited. Message: JHB, That's a really good question. So imagine that your math teacher Joe has put together this really easy way to understand math and is going public with it, all over the world. You have always liked math alot and you want to help out. Joe welcomes your help. (OK, now I can almost guess what your reply will be....Joe has been accused of misappropriating funds, messing with his mathettes, etc, etc......but that is just my feverish mind...) So this is my birthday and Easter. I'm glad it came out on the same day, ever since M.L. King got shot on 4/4 in '68. A little more of a positive vibe to associate with. Have a good day. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 15:08:39 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: SHP Subject: What does he teach revisited. Message: SHP, First of all your meditation teacher did not come up with anything new. Second, his makes out it's your duty to help spread his teachings, and has actually made threats that if you don't help him, you will not be able reap the benefits of the meditation. Thirdly, he does live a life of unbelievable luxury from donations from his followers. This is indisputable, and unacceptable, for someone who you claim is simply a meditation teacher. You still haven't answered the question I have now asked you four times. What does M teach apart from 4 meditation techniques? If you don't answer this time, I will assume you are hopelessly brainwashed, and will not converse with you again. Are you not starting to think yet, that if all the exes you converse with here start to get annoyed with you, maybe you really are a bit of a wally? John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 15:37:35 (EDT)
From: SHP Email: None To: JHB Subject: What does he teach revisited. Message: Far as I know, his 'teaching' is the four techniques of Knowledge plus whatever he happens to say that has a valuable lesson in it. (I believe the second happens through us all.) What if I don't care how Joe lives and I mind my own business and just help out? I was never threatened with my numbers not adding up properly if I didn't help him. (This is perhaps the most serious part to me, with the most serious ramifications.) Also, nothing is new under the sun, but Joe packaged and marketed it uniquely and attractively to large groups, insuring its spreading and despite the inevitable reality of unsatisfied customers along the way. I assure you I'm not brainwashed and what the hell is a wally? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 15:51:57 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: SHP Subject: I'm into win-win situations Message: Happy Birthday! Well, I think that you are overly optimistic in believing that this is a win-win situation. Based on a lot of your preachy posts I'd say that we (speaking for many here) don't have that much common ground that we agree on. By definition I would say that the Forum is not a premie friendly place and your characterization of being mugged is evidence of your denial of the purpose and intent of the Forum and is revealing in the fact that you may be masochistic to keep coming back for more. Perhaps, telling us to fuck ourselves and leave would be a more honest human reaction. But, IMO, dishonesty with one's self is part of the path that Maharaji teaches. And, I believe that the expressions of anger and disgust that the ex-premies post here are an honest expression of what was repressed for a long time. Your satsangy posts appear to be a reminder of the brainwash that we suffered through and we see through it and resent the intrusion. Therefore, by explicit definition it can hardly be a win-win situation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 16:17:08 (EDT)
From: SHP Email: None To: barney Subject: we are all human beings first Message: and I meant by win-win that everybody is happy, one way or the other, without making anyone else unhappy. I really am an amiable sort of personality, with alot of esoteric stuff mixed in, so it comes out preachy sometimes unbeknownst to me until I get feedback. I'm not doing it deliberately to alienate anyone. And I am trying to quit. I thought we could just talk about things including Maharaji, despite our differences, but now I see that the ill feelings run very, very deep. And my high profile flowery language is misread as something cruel, preachy or insensitive to the ones here who are very hurt for whatever reason. Well, I never want to cause anyone pain, and I'm sorry if I did. No, I don't want you to go f yourselves and leave on that note, for we are all human beings here and that is the common ground. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 15:46:48 (EST)
From: Sanford Email: None To: exxxx Subject: to exxxx, if that is your real Message: name. So you know me, eh? Well, howdy do. How come you have a pseudonym here? Who the hell are you? And I have two jobs, by the way. One of the primary purposes of this site is to 'expose' Maharaji as a fraud (since the exers think he is one). I don't. That's the rub. Otherwise, if we were talking about any other subject, I'm sure we'd all get along just fine. I was experiencing a low time when I came across this site, and I listened and posted a bunch. Got hassled just for being a premie by folks who knew little else about me, that was enough. As long as I was compliant and open to the rap here, everybody was cool with me, patient and explanatory. But as time went on, and I did not 'ex' myself within the timetable of the elders here, I was hassled again and written off. Yeah, I got nasty and all that as a knee-jerk reaction to the cyber-muggings that went on here. And I apologized for it. And one reason for my continued loyalty to Maharaji is the mindset and mood of this site. Yeah, there's alot of dirt dished that sounds really tabloid about him, but it's like checking out the stands at the grocery store when you're in line to check out. I am checking out the big picture. Am I being holier-than-thou, preachy, and all that shit? No. I was just thinking that maybe folks here saw things I didn't see, but now I think it's the other way around. What did you say your name was? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:06:58 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Everyone Subject: BREAKING STORY - MY MOLE! Message: God, this is a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it! I have been contacted by a recently disillusioned premie and now mole (codename Everglades) with full password access to Harlan's www.premie.org and its treasure trove of pictures of Maharaji. Everglades has created a personal website with the pictures of the Lord stored in ZIP files for free download to all regardless of what anyone thinks about the validity of your current experience of Knowledge. Apparently, the recent posts regarding Alonzo's rejection and dressing down at his request for a password account at www.premie.org has pushed Everglades off of the fence and into the world of espionage. I can't say too much about him other than thank him for his courage. www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/5993 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 02:09:28 (EST)
From: Bob! Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Your word is? Message: Hiya Roger, Congratulations on your mole. I feel everyone should be proud of rodent activity. However, you didn't do what you said you would regarding un-censoring my New Scandals Weekly! I guess your description of yourself as 'non-discriminating' is so much hot gas. People who can dish it out but can't take it in return are a bit suspect in my book. You talk a good game. In fact, your censorship is even worse than ELKs. They changed words in a fairly harmless way, without changing meaning...presence for darshan, for example. You, on the other hand, just erased entire pieces. So much for the 'teeth' of this page. So much for your holier-than-thou 'integrity.' Greetings to those with humor and life on this site, Bob! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 02:45:14 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Bob! Subject: My word is chingada usted! Message: Bob! I don't know who the hell you are, but I suspect that you might be related to You, Us, Me, and Them and that's all the reason I need to remove that shit. I also don't understand what the fuck you're saying and think you might just be a web troll out for some sicko fun. Oh sure, you're pretty cool with your knowledge of the Web and your thing with Bob Dobbs, but I don't give a shit about that cutesy stuff. Bob!, I reserve the right to put up or take down anything on my site as it suits me. Besides, this shit ain't for premies anyway. Bob! You point us to your site and we'll see what reciprocation you offer us. Bob! Get a life! Move on! Stay the fuck out if you don't like it. Who the fuck asked you? Bob! Take your pot shot and leave, Bob! Aren't you late for your date with gouging your eyeballs? In closing, Go! fuck! yourself! Bob! Take a good look at your fucking Master, Bob! Think about fat boy pissing your money away in a gold toilet the next time you write him a check! Besides, I work too hard on this to take your petty whiny criticism. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 16:03:04 (EST)
From: Bob! Email: None To: All Subject: Check out this reception! Message: Hi all, Check out the friendly reception from Roger Drek above...HALIP, Sir Dave etc. and see the definition of a great attitude! By the way Mr. Drek, I don't know Bob Dobbs or Us, Them etc. but you sure must have a large bug up your non-discriminating derriere to respond the way you do. I love you too! Bob! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 20:41:19 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Roger is picking on me! Message: Come on, Bob! Stop fucking with me! You don't know who Bob Dobbs is? Bullshit! Didn't you post that Bob Dobbs link and didn't I put that on the House of Drek. And now you claim you don't know Bob Dobbs. Take your mixed up message up hill and surrender it all to Maharaji, your Lord, your Master. Are you one of the paid monitors, Bob!? Paid to confusion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 04:57:34 (EST)
From: Bob! Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Nope Roger, wrong guy Message: O Prince of Drekness, you have me mixed up with who knows how many people. For your edification and anybody else's enjoyment, I'll reprint the message in question. This was in response to one day's worth of posting on this page. Maharaji retires! Jean-Michel orders snails! New scandals weekly! Jewels found in Joan Apter's misquote! SHP and Denise fall off their fences from the gang pressure! Wood on fences found to be sub-standard! Dettmers loses more hair! Jean-Michel has the haricot verts! Only 4 people attend worldwide satellite event but each is counted 22,318 times! Jean-Michel has a nice, red table wine! Gold plumbing fixtures smuggled in Joan Apter's hair! Maharaji suspected in deaths of 9 babies, all named Satganga or Irving Glickstein! Jean-Michel eyes the pretty redhead at the Café Montmartre! New Maharaji quote found from August, 1779 issue of Divine Light, 'I love to abuse small animals and always have, they're so annoying!' Cover-up alleged in laundry scandal at residence! Jean-Michel considers a nice clafoutis for dessert! Runamok and Nimrod continue to examine the alleged toilet and other plumbing fixtures! New clues in Lincoln assassination point to Fakirinand! Videos of hummingbirds outlawed in Rhode Island! Secret slush fund from Audobon Society thought to be going to Maharaji! Jean-Michel orders the creme brulée and a cognac instead! Insidious textbook dealers currently under investigation! Quote extracted from Denver, 1947 program, 'Principles are bad, intelligence is useless, don't earn any money and just follow me and do whatever I say...and, oh yeah, don't ever eat any fish!' Jean-Michel gives redhead cool but knowing smile...she flashes a big grin almost causing him to lose his sangfroid....'til he realizes she's looking at the giant, dashiki'd dude from Ghana behind him! Fence construction company sued for damages and emotional distress! Mata Ji wins suit and Judge tells Maharaji, 'the greatest sin is in naming babies Satganga!' Rich Neel suspected in heart attack death of music publishing mogul! Jean-Michel sighs and orders an espresso as the redhead and African leave café together! |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 10:24:59 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Nope Roger, wrong guy Message: Hi Bob! - I thought your post was really funny, BTW. But just to clarify a few things: 1. Roger's House of Drek site is NOT the Ex-Premie Org site (it is not clear from your posts whether you know this), although we do link to his site and vice versa. Roger originally set up 'House of Drek' as a place to put 'quirky oddities relating to Maharaji' that might not be appropriate (or that we might not have the desire or time) to put on the Ex-Premie.Org site. 2. I see from your posts back and forth with Roger that he's apparently got you confused with some other people who have been recently posting on the forum using a variety of screen names. Although I can understand your frustration at this, I think that Roger's confusion is natural. I think that these 'multiple-personality' people, who present themselves as being premies, are muddying some of the real communication between premies and ex-premies that occurs on this forum. You've now experienced that yourself. 3. About editing a collection of posts: I do think it's fair to use parts of people's posts in the interest of brevity and saving disk space, as long as the words and meaning aren't changed and/or taken out of context. I don't consider this to be 'censorship'. An archive digest for THIS site was made before and this is the way it was done. I didn't read the edited version of your post while Roger had it on his site, so I don't know what you're objecting to, but my feeling on this is that if you or anyone disagrees with the edited version of a post that you made that he puts on his site, then e-mail him and tell him to take it off. Finally, I'd just like to say, in Roger's defense, that he's tried to pick out funny and telling posts for his *Best of the Forum* feature without regard to whether they were made by premies or ex-premies. I appreciate his intent and spirit in doing this, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to use posts from premies on *Best of the Forum* anymore - he's gotten an incredible amount of grief from it. I sympathize with Roger because I have experienced that it's NOT easy running a web site (you oughta try it some time!) Respectfully yours, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 13:59:24 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Bob! Subject: I know who you are, Bob! Message: When my 3 year old tried to convince me it wasn't he who stole the cookies, he said, 'I swear to Bob!' Funny stuff, BTW. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 12:01:05 (EST)
From: '>',,,,,,crow Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Great blob R. Dreckman! Message: I want the watch! Will it be patented? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 22:43:38 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Wrong, Bob Message: In fact, your censorship is even worse than ELKs. They changed words in a fairly harmless way, without changing meaning...presence for darshan, for example. Bob, This is absolutely wrong. ELK changed meanings galore. For example, my guy ('David Goldberg') reported that his Mexican friends asked him how he could worship his master and claimed that he made it sound as if Maharaji was 'Jesus or Krishna himself'. The assholes at ELK changed that so the Mexican friends ended up asking him an entirely different question. Yo' wrong, boy. Thems people liars. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 02:19:00 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Why they don't want you to see Message: these pictures because he's completely bald! and might be from France! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 04:31:27 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Portrait of Dorian Grey! Message: He stays the same (fat and rich), yet his portrait at Agent Everglades gets uglier and uglier. What secret sick life does this man do to deserve this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 03:28:24 (EST)
From: reditor Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: your mole?! Message: roger, darling... the other red nighty girls and I want to know... what does everglades look like? and how much are you paying her? P.S. you'll never work in this town again if you don't treat us right! or unless you get ms. everlades to write a red nighty chapeter! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 04:13:28 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: reditor Subject: your mole?! Message: You bet she's my mole and more. I can't help it if I'm a bait magnet. And I never pay for nuthin' either. Who tol' ya that, huh? Wasn't my thievin', barn burning cousin Beau, now, was it? The Everglades, huh? Well, it's really hot and very wet. Some say it's got a fishy smell. Men, who get lost, never get out with all their manly parts. Hell, it's loaded with man eating gators that never let go of ya and hold you down there til and suffocate you to death and then feed you to their young ones. And once in a while you'll be reaching down there and come up with a one-eyed snake. Lord Almighty, I really hate when that happens. And Ms. Everlades ain't ever gonna write no smutty story, darling. She just ain't that kind of girl. Comes from a good family and a good daddy. Only knows fine gentlemen callers. She might grace our pages with some poetry or a little singing maybe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 13:32:04 (EST)
From: Tacky Romance Novelist Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: your mole?! Message: Who is this Ms. Everglades and what does she got that the rest of us CORN writers don't got? I am truly baffled. Perhaps she could star in my next romance novel Bayou Bimbo. The male protagonist is an alligator wrestler. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Apr 04, 1999 at 15:30:55 (EDT)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Tacky Romance Novelist Subject: your mole?! Message: Writing this again because the orginal died when the Forum crashed. TRN, Ms. Everglades (Gwyneth Paltrow) is a true Southern belle who understands and appreciates the traditional life serving mint juleps to gentlemen callers dressed in seersucker suits as they wait in the parlor or on the porch swing on a moonlit evening that is scented with honeysuckle and a breeze blows in from the bayou that coaxes the waxen blooms of the magnolia to flutter to the ground. No, the male protagonist (Montgomery Clift) is not an alligator wrestler, but is wrestling with a lifetime of sexual repression that occurred during his formative years living as the son of a baptist preacher (Orson Wells) whom becomes enraged when his wife (Bette Davis) runs off with a shrimp fisherman (Rip Torn.) All the deceased actors/actresses are recreated through technical expertise by Buena Vista studios. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:48:16 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Drek Quiz historical moment! Message: Finally, the moment I've been waiting for! The House of Drek Quiz has for the first time had the response of Master fall below 50%! It would appear that the crucial voter probably thought that Maharaji was God Incarnate, which Maharaji, himself, disavows. Therefore, the answer must be invalid. We must, however, give credit where it is due and not a single person considers Maharaji to be a Humanitarian Leader. I wonder if those gold fixtures in his throne room has anything to do with that. Which of the following best describes Maharaji? 206 respondents 3% Teacher of Meditation 49% Master 0% Humanitarian Leader 4% God Incarnate 37% Fraud 7% Don't Know Drek Quiz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 13:35:43 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The War Forum Message: Just a reminder that the old Magical Mystery Tour forum has been abandoned and in it's place is a new forum, The crisis in Kosovo. Anyone and everyone is welcome to join in. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:11:29 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sheep, you're a liar Message: Sheep, Amongst everything you say there's one lie that really rubs me the wrong way and that's that you are a 'critical thinker'. Sheep, you can believe whatever you want about spiritual matters and who can say otherwise but, when it comes to this particular notion, sorry, fella, you're simply lying. Let's back it up a bit. Months ago the term came up and you weren't familiar with it. So several of us discussed it with you, we all found some net sources, some definitions and some further descriptions, examples and advice for those interested in thinking critically. Since then, like the completely superficial idiot you are, you've glommed onto the word and have tried to sew the 'critical thinking' label into all your cheap, knock-off clothing as if your saying you practise it makes it so. Well, Sheep, it doesn't. Further, there's absolutely nothnig I've seen you ever say that even slightly entitles you to claim otherwise. Furthermore, I don't give you any benefit of the doubt on this. You've read the same stuff the rest of us have. Unless you dispute all those definitions and analysis and have your own special meaning of the term, you simply cannot in good conscience claim to practise 'critical thinking'. You can't and, for my money, your doing so is just a very bald-faced lie. Your thinking, as you so often explain quite candidly, is the opposite of critical. So quit lying, Sheep. It's not nice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:57:00 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Shippy Subject: Shippy Message: And more importantly, you really just don't like us. Whenever confronted with any kind of debate, you are nasty and itching for a fight more than we are. Why don't you go play somewhere else or at least look for someone you want to play with? You really can't keep pretending to be developing deep friendships with people who are being polite to you online, while meanwhile bumming people out with your satsangy posts, 'camouflaged' as universal love and spirituality. The camouflage is pretty thin- we've all spent years saying the same things and trying to act the same way. You say you really like this forum, but you have proven to be a person who 'bites the hand that feeds them' with your lack of respect for the exes who post here and by your insistence on using the ex-premie forum as your personal soapbox. Give it a rest. I'm sure the sheep channel will go away if you do. We are not such a bad bunch, and can try to find nice things to think and say about you if you would mellow the fuck out. Jumping at every new name online who hasn't heard your new age raps in the hopes that they will be friendly just doesn't stimulate depth or closeness on the forum. You can't just walk into a party and try to get laid by strangers these days. It's not whats going on. With good wishes for as long as I can manage to keep them, Runamok Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:12:40 (EST)
From: Shippy Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Runny Message: Runny, R: 'And more importantly, you really just don't like us. Whenever confronted with any kind of debate, you are nasty and itching for a fight more than we are. S: I don't dislike you (collective), but I dislike many of your (personal) tactics. I notice you post with 'we' and 'us' alot. Why don't you just rep yourself because that's what's going on right now, isn't it? You hide behind the collective, jump out and take pot shots, then hide behind the collective 'we' and 'us'. Very weak stance. I am sure that there are those here who heartily agree with you, and there are those who don't. This ain't a popularity contest, is it? R: 'Why don't you go play somewhere else or at least look for someone you want to play with? You really can't keep pretending to be developing deep friendships with people who are being polite to you online, while meanwhile bumming people out with your satsangy posts, 'camouflaged' as universal love and spirituality. The camouflage is pretty thin- we've all spent years saying the same things and trying to act the same way.' S: I am not trying to develop 'deep friendships' as you implied. If they happen, that's cool. But that's not why I come here. As for my communication, I really believe and feel what I am saying from the heart, and do not camouflage. For me, it's not an act. Believe it or not. R: 'You say you really like this forum, but you have proven to be a person who 'bites the hand that feeds them' with your lack of respect for the exes who post here and by your insistence on using the ex-premie forum as your personal soapbox.' S: A forum is a soapbox for whoever has something to say. I contend that it's what I say that bothers you more than how I say it. If I agreed with you about Maharaji, and still communicated the same way, you'd probably consider me an asset. R: 'Give it a rest. I'm sure the sheep channel will go away if you do.' S: That sounds like some kind of threat. So what I am hearing you say is that if I go away, you'll stop slandering and libeling me. Such a deal! Do I get a set of glasses or can I have the cutlery? R: 'We are not such a bad bunch, and can try to find nice things to think and say about you if you would mellow the fuck out. Jumping at every new name online who hasn't heard your new age raps in the hopes that they will be friendly just doesn't stimulate depth or closeness on the forum. You can't just walk into a party and try to get laid by strangers these days. It's not what's going on. S: Your characterization of me is inaccurate, but I can appreciate the fact that you are entitled to your point of view. You guys have been holding out on the cybersex??? And I don't think you are a 'bad bunch', just some are in sore need of mellowing out on your side and not mugging premies the way folks get mugged for wandering into the wrong neighborhood if we don't agree with you. As for the good wishes, they're free, so I have an unlimited supply for you, no strings attached. SHP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 10:08:08 (EST)
From: Cyberslut Email: None To: Shippy Subject: What are you wearing? Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:49:13 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, don't go sugar-coating Message: your posts to me now, OK? Just treat me like everybody else or folks will start to wonder about us. So by your standards and the standards of those high beings who set the standards we lower beings all must live by, you all don't define what I do as 'critical thinking'. o-my-gawd. Everyone keeps their desk, notes, computer layouts, underwear drawers differently. The way I see it, if you can find your shit, good for you. But my socks don't have to be folded the same way yours are, do they? So if you can find your stuff and I can find mine, it's nobody's business about how either of us organizes it. Let's be honest. You just disagree with me. That is how is it said. But in your arrongance, (and I have seen you do it to others besides myself), if you disagree with someone, you trash them instead of respectfully disagreeing. Try that in court and you'll be jailed for contempt, and you know it. So take your occupational frustrations out on someone else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:06:36 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Why do you do this.... Message: shp: to yourself? 'But my socks don't have to be folded the same way yours are, do they? So if you can find your stuff and I can find mine, it's nobody's business about how either of us organizes it.' What has this to do with critical thinking? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:20:22 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: reply to Mike Message: The paths my thought processes take to arrive at a conclusion about something are my business and I don't care what labels anybody tries to stick on me for not having the exact same cerebral convolutions and ingrams that they do. That's what. While using my brain, I ascribe much more importance to intuition and faith in my life than some of the folks here I have been talking with. I feel like I have to conform to Jim's or whoever's method of thinking and pass some sort of muster before I am considered worthy here. Toro doo doo! Am I clear now, Mike? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:52:14 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Yes, so why Message: shp: didn't you say this in the first place. Next, there are accepted definitions for words and groups of words. Many of those are listed in a dictionary or in books about the subject. Jim's point, if I may, is that you are not a 'critical thinker' in accordance with any known definition. To say that you are not 'thinking' would be incorrect, but to say that it is what is referred to as 'critical thinking' would be just as large a mistake. Read the definitions that you were given and/or find them for yourself and you will see what Jim is talking about. BTW, shp, you made a point in a recent post that Jim 'expects' everyone to read the books that he reads. I don't get that impression, at all. He reads alot and so do I, but I would venture a guess that there are MANY books that he has read that I have not and vice-versa. For the average person, reading about astrophysics is infinitely more boring than watching grass grow. BUT, if someone wants to know where from where I got an idea or wants to know the latest and greatest, they MUST read the books that I point out or they are not going to get the info (assuming it's not info that I alone possess). The same is true of books on evolution, atheism and most everything else to which Jim refers. It's not a matter of 'passing tests,' it's a matter of reading to 'understand' an idea or concept. Unless you are the 'discoverer,' you can't even claim to understand a concept without first 'learning' about it...... that would be pretty silly, wouldn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:14:58 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: reply to Mike Message: When we first got involved into homeschooling, we learned that people learn many different ways: 1) doing (kinetic) 2) watching (observation) 3) reading 4) analyzing 5) intuiting There's more but I don't have the book right infront of me, but you get the idea. That's why lots of kids don't do well in public school. It's been a one-size-fits-all program and now that schools have come under intense scrutiny and homeschooling has a higher profile and more respect, the schools are starting to straighten up and be more sensitive to individual needs and ways. If you never tasted apple pie before, but you read all the neat recipes for it, and I came over to your house and told you to close your mouth and open your eyes and stuck and big forkfull of fresh homemade apple pie in your mouth, you'd know what it was immediately. No thinking necesary. Experience! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:22:16 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Not true, shp Message: shp: If I tasted homemade apple pie for the 'very first time' and had not been PRE-LOADED with it's name or description, I would likely have NO IDEA what I had just eaten (other than the simple fact that it tasted good). I sure as heck wouldn't know that it was your famous homemade apple pie! Additionally, I do know about the methods of learning and teaching, but I've NEVER heard of 'intuition' being a learning or a teaching technique. Maybe some professional educators can shed some light on this, but it would seem that intuition would be the least likely method of learning anything (and the most likely to result in major errors of understanding). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:25:27 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Forsooth, Mike Message: I said if you had read a bunch of recipes, i.e. PRELOADED. I rest my case of apples. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:58:31 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: shp, shp, shp Message: shp: You are comparing a 'physical' thing that CAN BE PROVEN (e.g apples in apple pie, recipes, etc) with the so-called 'spiritual' realm and there is a point to be made here (apples and oranges): So, what you are saying is that without PRE-LOADING, you can't possibly know that the REALLY TRUE THING is really true? Without PRE-LOADING, you can't KNOW that god is the experience you are having? Hmmmmmm, I always thought that truth would be self-evident and wouldn't require any pre-loading at all (intuitive, if you will). Let me venture this: Without PRE-LOADING you wouldn't really think that watching your breath, listening to the ringing in your ears, slurping the stuff that runs down the back of your throat, or looking at phosgenes (retinal feedback from squeezing the eyeball) was anything special at all. In fact, without preloading, you wouldn't look at M and see anything special (mahatmas took care of this little requirement). Look again... PRELOADING is called brainwashing in some circles. Shp, you talk about 'intuition,' but PRELOADING isn't consistant with the 'intuitive' process. SO..... no you didn't make your point with me, at all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 17:09:32 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: reply Message: Mike, Since it seems that we are posting almost in real time, please excuse me. I gotta go somewhere, not copping out. Now somebody's gonna criticize my courtesy to you, just watch. Later. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 13:18:34 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: That's funny... Message: shp: You say you're not copping out, you say that you need to go, but I notice that instead of answering my post, you answer posts below...... LOOK AT THE POSTING TIME on the posts SHP.... You just didn't want to answer this one; you DID cop out. Bye, bye SHP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 16:04:56 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Let me 'splain, occifer Message: Mike, I honestly did have to go, and I knew you would notice the times on the other posts (busted!)...but this place is a little addictive, not to mention cyberspace in general. I really did have to go, but was checking out a thing or two and allowed myself to get hooked, and time flew by. No intentional copout, for real. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 16:15:14 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: preload this Message: Mike, I have copied/pasted your previous post to here so I can answer you with the respect and the honesty you deserve. Sorry for what looked like 'copping out', but it wasn't that. I just got hooked after saying I was leaving. Haven't you ever done that before? Sorry. Maybe if we establish good faith and good will with each other, every fart won't sound like a terrorist attack to you guys. Mike's post: 'shp: You are comparing a 'physical' thing that CAN BE PROVEN (e.g apples in apple pie, recipes, etc) with the so-called 'spiritual' realm and there is a point to be made here (apples and oranges): So, what you are saying is that without PRE-LOADING, you can't possibly know that the REALLY TRUE THING is really true? Without PRE-LOADING, you can't KNOW that god is the experience you are having? Hmmmmmm, I always thought that truth would be self-evident and wouldn't require any pre-loading at all (intuitive, if you will. Let me venture this: Without PRE-LOADING you wouldn't really think that watching your breath, listening to the ringing in your ears, slurping the stuff that runs down the back of your throat, or looking at phosgenes (retinal feedback from squeezing the eyeball) was anything special at all. In fact, without preloading, you wouldn't look at M and see anything special (mahatmas took care of this little requirement). Look again... PRELOADING is called brainwashing in some circles. Shp, you talk about 'intuition,' but PRELOADING isn't consistant with the 'intuitive' process. SO.....no you didn't make your point with me, at all.' SHP's reply: I think we are pre-loaded prenatally with Knowledge. Can't prove it, can't critically think it, can't rationalize it. I just think we are. Maharaji reveals it, so it's already there, right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 11:37:36 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Here's the proof - Denise Message: [Here's Maharaji's March 29th sermon from India. Thank you Maharaji for clearing up any residual confusion people like Denise might have about your anti-intellectualism. I've highlighted the section that pretty much nails it. Denise, if you're still lurking here, I dare you to read this otherwise. That is, I dare you to say that Maharaji is not discouraging thinking about, let alone studying, 'knowledge'.] OUR HEART'S DESIRE What is being said here is very simple. You don't have to climb the Himalayas or read 7,000 different scriptures to understand this: you have this human life, so you should fulfil it. What your heart wants to feel is this: 'Truly my life has been fulfilled.' That feeling of fulfilment only comes from within. UPSIDE DOWN Out in the world people offer thousands of ways to be fulfilled. 'Go there. Do this. Read that.' Everyone has an opinion. But everything is upside down. Fulfilment is not to be found outside. You don't get a report card about how well you are fulfilling your life. If you truly want to fulfil your life, you need some understanding. However, it is not easy to feel fulfilled. THE MAIN AIM We really need to have one main aim; and that is to fulfil this life. After that you can have many different goals, second, third and fourth. But we try to do it upside down. We put all the other goals first. We say: 'When I retire, I will make the effort to fulfil my life.' The saints and masters say that won't work; that you will spend your life fulfilling the small goals and not the main one. You have to start with the main goal from the beginning. But unless you feel this from within, how will you be able to do it? BEYOND THOUGHT You cannot just think about satisfaction, you have to feel it. There are some things you can think about, but there are some which must be felt. Sleep is one of them. If you lie down and think: 'I must sleep. I must sleep', you will not be able to sleep. You will only fall asleep when you let go of these thoughts. Likewise, peace and satisfaction cannot be the subjects of thought. We need to feel them. AN IMPORTANT DECISION We first need to make this decision that we want to walk on this path. So we must answer these questions: Do you want the feelings of love, trust and joy? Do you want to experience the joy of Knowledge and the joy of participation? IT MUST BE TODAY If you have decided to do so. Then make this fulfilment the number one priority in your life: 'Yes, I want to experience bliss in my life.' 'This is necessary for me. I cannot put it off until tomorrow, or the next day, or two days from now, or ten days, or 10 months or 20 years... I have to do it now, so that every day I can experience bliss and peace.' 'With these feelings, I can be fulfilled. My heart can be completely fulfilled. My thirst can be quenched. And when I quench it, my thirst increases, and that expanded thirst can be quenched too.' Is this your goal? Or have you put your other goals on the same level as this? These goals just come and go. Nothing is stable in the world, so you have to make that decision that you want fulfilment in your lives. QUALITY TIME But are we going to sit and practice? Years ago people used to say that they did not have time to practice. You have time to bathe your buffaloes, but you don't have time to feel peace in your life? If you don't have time for your heart, there is something wrong. What has time become? You actually have time to sit around waiting and doing nothing, but you don't have time for that which brings you peace and satisfaction. That is like getting on a train that travels forward for 10 minutes and then back for 10 minutes. It ends up in the same place, never reaching its destination. Is this not what is happening in our lives? Do we not find ourselves in the same place we started from? AN ANCIENT THIRST What made us want to receive Knowledge? It was our hearts. The scriptures tell us that it is 'like this' and 'like that', but before the scriptures were written did no one have Knowledge? Did no one have this thirst before the scriptures were written? Of course, they did. This thirst is ages old. NO PROOF REQUIRED Some things are just so 'present', that they need no proof. When the sun rises you need no proof. Although they publish the times of the sunrise in the newspapers, you do not read the time in the paper to prove that the sun has risen. No proof is required. Knowledge needs no proof. Nor does peace need any proof. The proof is within your heart. The proof is within you. But are we ready to accept this or not? AN UNDERSTANDING OF RESPONSIBILITY I am not saying put aside your other responsibilities, as they have to be taken care of no matter what. If you are a businessman, a farmer, a student or a shop-keeper you have your other responsibilities and you should take care of them and do them well. But you must also attend to your number one responsibility. This is a small thing to understand, but it is very important - that: 'This Knowledge is for me. This opportunity is for me. This life is mine.' A UNIQUE SHINE Everyone wants to know what happens when we die. People have been searching for the answer for so long, but no one has any proof of what happens. What is important is that we have life now, not how long we will have it but that we have it. We have the chance to decorate our lives with all this: satisfaction, bliss, our master's love, the joy of Knowledge and the joy of participation. If we do this, we will give our life a beauty, a unique shine. MAKE TIME FOR BLISS People say that they don't have time. But how are you spending your time? I say that you should make time for bliss in your life. What you hear today will help you through your entire life. What is there in the world that will help you throughout your whole life? There is nothing. So make time for those things which will help you throughout your life. Otherwise it will be like the person who studies all his life, then retires and forgets all he has learned as he doesn't need it any longer. And he is left with nothing. Focus your attention where your heart will be fulfilled. Have that experience of bliss which can remain in your heart forever. MISPLACED DOUBTS Our problem is that we place doubts where there are no doubts. We should listen to our hearts. Our hearts do not create doubts or problems. Life is about the heart, it is about making that number one responsibility our number one responsibility. If you don't do that it will not be easy to sit and practice. TRANSFORMATION In fact, there has been a transformation. People used to say that they did not have time to practice, but these days I get letters from people saying how much they enjoy practicing for two, three and four hours a day. This is a good transformation. A YEAR BECOMES A WEEK Propagation is increasing thanks to the efforts of people with Knowledge and my own efforts. Now 20,000 people are receiving Knowledge a year in India instead of two to three thousand. I remember talking to a mahatma a few years ago about how great it would be if 10,000 people were to receive Knowledge in a year, and now that has happened in just one week! THE EVER-GROWING LOAD Really it is up to you whether you lighten or increase your load in your life. But you should remember one thing: a small load will always get bigger and a large load will never get any lighter. So, your number one responsibility is to fulfil your life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:00:56 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: And the other letters? Message: In fact, there has been a transformation. People used to say that they did not have time to practice, but these days I get letters from people saying how much they enjoy practicing for two, three and four hours a day. This is a good transformation. And the other letters, m'Lord? What about them? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 12:23:58 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: And the other letters? Message: 'enjoy practicing for two, three and four hours a day.' Yes, who wouldn't like to escape reality for 4 hours per day + sleepy time? It's rough to have to pay attention to and care about the problems associated with using up valuable space and resources on this planet. It requires alot of that 'terrible thinking stuff,' too! Yeah, yeah let's just sit under a blanket and DO NOTHING about it.... it'll go away really fast if we do that! Jim, you come up with some of the most attention-getting quotes from the BIG M. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 14:08:28 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's a matter of style Message: You cannot just think about satisfaction, you have to feel it. There are some things you can think about, but there are some which must be felt. Sleep is one of them. If you lie down and think: 'I must sleep. I must sleep', you will not be able to sleep. You will only fall asleep when you let go of these thoughts. Likewise, peace and satisfaction cannot be the subjects of thought. We need to feel them. While I think M's way of describing satisfaction is horrendous, I agree with him, somewhat. You can think about satisfaction, but feeling satisfaction is what we're aiming for. His analogy of sleep is pitiful. Who lies down and thinks 'I must sleep, I must sleep'? Maybe an insomniac. But most people just lie down to go to sleep when they're tired. We don't think ourselves into it. The problem with Maharaji isn't the point he's trying to make, here, but in the half-assed way he's making it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 15:49:40 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's a matter of means Message: I agree that we need to take time for bliss. I also agree that we need to attend to our feelings and our heart. We need to make love and happiness a priority. I disagree with the notion that 'knowledge' is the way to accomplish any of these things. VP Has known great bliss and depth of heart-'99 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:03:12 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's a matter of nonsense Message: First, why are 'peace and satisfaction' which are entirely subjective terms, considered such great ultimate gifts and who says we don't already have them before we encouter the master? Andy why not lust and pleasure the ultimate gifts? Perhaps they don't seem quite as 'spiritual' but why not? And why not excitement and thrills? Why not stupor and bliss? Everyone has a different idea about what peace and satisfaction are, and there are all kinds of various degrees of both of them. The point is that thinking and feeling are not mutually exclusive things as Maharaji implies. He is doing nothing more than re-hashing Hindu religious beliefs when he implies that there is such exclusivity. In my experience, I am much happier with my life because I can both think and feel. They are both very important, but I don't need to shut off my brain to feel, and I'm not in some agitated, un-peaceful place when I think. This is all just part of the nonsense Maharaji preaches, in his simplistic, repetitive ramblings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:09:44 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Right on, JW Message: JW: Ask a surfer (a REAL surfer) what they 'feel' when they are riding a great wave (a pretty exciting thing, if you ask me) and they will almost always say that they 'feel' like they are 'in the flow' and that they experience 'peace.' All this from a 'physical,' non-spiritual act. SO.... SURFING just MUST be THE WAY! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:39:36 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: It's a matter of nonsense Message: The point is that thinking and feeling are not mutually exclusive things as Maharaji implies. This is a good point, JW. If our thinking is clear, a feeling of satisfaction does ensue. I think the original point Jim was trying to make is that Maharaji is saying (wrongfully) that 'you CANNOT think about peace and satisfaction' which proves that M is anti-intellectual, if this is all he had to say about it. But in the same paragraph he previously says 'you can't JUST think of satisfaction'. So what is it? You can't or you can't JUST? He's inconsistent and unclear in the point he's trying to make about the relationship between thinking and satisfaction. And his analogy on sleeping, in an effort to clarify his meaning, is pathetic. If premies were to just have some faith in their thinking processes they would see (hopefully) that M's are sorely lacking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 16:57:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's a matter of nonsense Message: Like Mike said, the thing that feels good, sometimes, is to concentrate you attention. So the surfer, the rock climber, the runner, the writer, can be so concentrated, that superfluous thoughts are diminished and a certain clarity comes that feels good. In my opinion, you can, sometimes, also experience that in meditation, because it is nothing more than a form of concentration. It has nothing to do with thinking or not thinking, it's an experience of CONCENTRATED thinking. That's partly why I rock climb and why I run -- because I like to feel concentration, sometimes. I like to feel it sometimes, not all the time. And it isn't some kind of spiritual state, it's just a phenomenon of living in certain situations. You don't abandon thinking, you just direct it. Maharaji and his cult have ALWAYS been anti-intellectual. This is nothing new, although in recent years he seems to have toned down the anti-intellectual rhetoric. I think part of this comes because Maharaji is uneducated and feels inferior to highly educated people. So he puts it down. Also, along with the idea that 'thinking' is something less than the ultimate 'feeling' and 'thinking' is essentially an intellectual endeavor, it's something less. I remember one time Maharaji said he had never read a book. He also said there was a copy of 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' in a car he was riding in, and he looked at the first paragraph and threw the book into the back seat of the car as a waste of time. The message was very clear. As ashram premies, our reading material was 'controlled.' Reading books, other than maybe WIGMJ, and maybe some of those childish new-age books like the Chronicles of Narnia could get you into trouble. I had read those books when I was about 9 and had no intention of reading them again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 19:19:26 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: It's a matter of nonsense Message: JW, What you're saying is all fine and good but Jim is trying to point out that it's this paragraph, particularly the highlighted sentence that proves M is anti-intellectual: You cannot just think about satisfaction, you have to feel it. There are some things you can think about, but there are some which must be felt. Sleep is one of them. If you lie down and think: 'I must sleep. I must sleep', you will not be able to sleep. You will only fall asleep when you let go of these thoughts. Likewise, peace and satisfaction cannot be the subjects of thought. We need to feel them. Before we go off on a tangent on what entails satisfaction and whether or not thinking plays a role in it, do you agree that these two paragraphs add up to anti-intellectualism on M's part? I say not entirely. He does say some things you can think about. But satisfaction he contends is something that can only be felt. While I agree that satisfaction IS something you feel, there's no rule that says you can't think about that feeling of satisfaction. I think M is trying to make a point that in order to know satisfaction you have to feel it. I agree with him. Why wouldn't I? But I don't think he makes that point clearly. Look at his analogy on sleeping. Do you think its a good one? It sucks. And the last statement is an outright untruth. Peace and satisfaction can be the subjects of thought. The point I'm trying to make is that M isn't so much anti-intellectual with these statements as he is lacking in trying to make his point clear. As a master, you would think that he'd do a better job of it. After all, I have heard him assert that it is a master's clarity that a student requires. Where is that clarity here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 22:49:08 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: You're too generous, Jerry Message: Shit, I come back from a hard day at the office and what do I find? Jerry's practically turned back into a premie all over again! No, seriously, Jerry, it appears to me that your common sense is, quite understandably, taking in the picture is such a way as it just might make sense. I mean, of course Maharaji didn't mean we can't think about peace and satisfaction. That would be nuts, right? But, Jerry, that's why they call it a 'razor's edge', remember? 'Eye of the Needle'? 'Something or other of the Gnat'? Do any of these mean anything to you? Jerry, if you're hearing me now, squeeze my finger. Jerry? (Sorry. It just feels good to be home from the office. You know.) Anyway, I think it's pretty clear. Maharaji's not saying you have to feel satisfaction as well as think about it. At least not here. Here he's saying something bizarre but common enough for him: you just can't think about these things. Well, whatever. The guy's so clearly anti-intellectual it's astounding that anyone could ever think otherwise. Where is Denise anyway? Oh Deniiiiisssee? Denise? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:44:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: It's a matter of nonsense Message: Before we go off on a tangent on what entails satisfaction and whether or not thinking plays a role in it, do you agree that these two paragraphs add up to anti-intellectualism on M's part? No, I don't think the two paragraphs are enough to say Maharaj is anti-intellectual. But he is anti-intellectual, taking as a sum total all the things he has said over the years. And I disagree that he is saying there are some things you CAN think about. I think he says there are some things you DO think about, or you might HAVE TO think aobut, but it is something less than the ultimate, and you certainly wouldn't want to put yourself in an intellectual situation if you could avoid it, because there thinking would be stimulated. And of course you FEEL satisfaction, but my point was that feeling isn't devoid of thought. It's the duality of 'thought' and 'feeling' that M teaches that I reject as false. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999 at 23:54:57 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Isn't this embarrasing? Message: Joe, Jerry, Do you ever wince thinking how absolutely dumb this conversation might sound to an outsider? I mean, as if there's such a thing as thinking divorced from feeling or vice versa. Sheesh! Maharaji knows no subtlety. He's like a really bad chef, runnign a really bad restaurant which, for some reason, one's forced to review. Just admitting you ate there is bad enough. Describing the food's worse. And trying to sort out the bad from the terrible's a complete embarrassment. Have you read some of Maharaji's satsang from India? I'm stupefied. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 07:09:18 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: To an outsider? Message: Do you ever wince thinking how absolutely dumb this conversation might sound to an outsider? Hey, I'm part of the conversation and it sounds dumb to me. I know I'm going to extremes deconstructing Maharaji sentence by sentence but why not? Maybe I look stupid doing it, but if you DO do it, you see how stupid he looks, too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Mar 30, 1999 at 11:35:49 (EST)
From: Victoria Email: None To: y'all Subject: thinking and singing Message: Hi, This is veering way off, but I just remembered back in the old days, some premies saying you should always meditate and remember the holy name...if you couldn't meditate, then you should just think about Maraji...if you couldn't think about Maraji, then you should sing about Maraji. Maybe it was Gurucharanand who first said this in the Satsang hall, as it is just beginning to come back to me. I actually followed this advice. It worked quite well to keep my dangerous Mr. Mind bored stiff (ignore your mind and it will go away). Thank goodness I eventually came back to my senses -- the 5 senses, not the sick sixth one =). Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999 at 22:19:53 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Victoria Subject: thinking and singing Message: I thought thinking about M was more hellish than 'experiencing Knowledge - and not really experiencing it. I'm glad to be rid of all of it, except for those few times when meditation made me feel the experience of concentration then there was a kind of blissful feeling. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Apr 01, 1999 at 08:28:20 (EST)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Liz Subject: thinking and singing Message: Liz, I agree. I usually skipped right through the 'thinking about Maraji' part and sang my little devotional heart out, drowning out whatever thoughts and doubts that were trying to surface. ;) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |