Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 43 | |
From: Mar 20, 1999 |
To: Apr 5, 1999 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
Patrice -:- Un fil francais ??? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:20:54 (EST) __Brian -:- Un fil francais ??? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:55:23 (EST) Miloochie -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 03:13:17 (EST) __Zac -:- How many attempts? and how -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:10:12 (EST) __Patrice Benedetto -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:13:58 (EST) ____Gentle Reader -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:02:25 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- Gentle but short-sighted -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 13:00:37 (EST) __L -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:11:52 (EST) ____Zac -:- Donner are you reading this? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:14:25 (EST) ____g's mom -:- that is really horrible L -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:02:20 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- and even worse in France -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:22:04 (EST) ________Wise Old Seer -:- Realizing K -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:52:25 (EST) __________Mike -:- The wit and wisdom -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:44:34 (EST) __________Gentle Reader -:- Sour Grapes, nothing more -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:06:48 (EST) ____________gerry -:- Hey Mike -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:44:10 (EST) ____________Mike -:- So, how much did you? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 14:48:29 (EST) ____________Wise Old Seer -:- No sour grapes -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:02:51 (EST) ________Gentle Reader -:- and even worse in France -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:04:54 (EST) __________Jean-Michel -:- and even worse in France -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 13:02:20 (EST) ____Mary M -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:45:25 (EST) ______Happy -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:52:39 (EST) ________Gentle Reader -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:11:10 (EST) __________gerry -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:36:56 (EST) ____________Jerry -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:19:44 (EST) ______________gerry -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 18:40:47 (EST) __________Mike -:- Ok, I'll bite.... -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:23:00 (EST) ______Bobby -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:53:41 (EST) ________Gentle Reader -:- I heard the Miami '97 satsangs -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:14:44 (EST) __________Jerry -:- I heard the Miami '97 satsangs -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:47:32 (EST) ____TechKnow -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:36:45 (EST) ______Mike -:- I'm sorry for your loss of a -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:56:46 (EST) ________Bobby -:- I'm sorry for your loss of a -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:26:17 (EST) __________Helen -:- I'm sorry for your loss of a -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 20:13:28 (EST) __________TechKnow -:- I'm sorry for your loss of a -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 22:14:16 (EST) ______L -:- TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:09:53 (EST) ________Bobby -:- TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:40:05 (EST) __________Gentle Reader -:- Laughing at painful attachment -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:29:07 (EST) ____________Bobby -:- Laughing at painful attachment -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 12:20:45 (EST) ____________JW -:- 'Painful Attachments' -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:32:25 (EST) ________L -:- I Apologize To TechKnow -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:50:02 (EST) __________Bobby -:- I Apologize To TechKnow -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:04:37 (EST) __________TechKnow -:- Response -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 05:11:36 (EST) ____________dv -:- Jim Heller mentioned a Carl -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 09:17:39 (EST) ____________JW -:- Offensive Response -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 11:54:29 (EST) __________TechKnow -:- I Apologize To TechKnow -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:01 (EST) ________bilhe he -:- the bizarre laughter -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:31:47 (EST) ________Liz -:- TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 00:29:49 (EST) ______Bobby -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:21:15 (EST) ______dv -:- What is this persons name?nt -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:04:52 (EST) ______BC -:- Techknow's friend -:- Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 16:06:04 (EST) ____dv -:- Can anyone find this speech? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 22:59:29 (EST) ____Gentle Reader -:- Suicide of widower -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 10:56:57 (EST) ______gerry -:- Suicide of widower -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:48:48 (EST) ______Helen -:- Attachment is NOT lethal -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 16:38:45 (EST) ________Mike -:- Attachment is WONDERFUL! -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:25:38 (EST) __________Helen -:- Attachment is WONDERFUL! -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 20:36:51 (EST) ______Mike -:- Suicide of widower -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:44:37 (EST) __JHB -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:11:59 (EST) ____boot bhill -:- Three that I knew -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:15:22 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- PR don't come back from India -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 06:10:51 (EST) ________Zac -:- North America in June -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 06:55:45 (EST) __________Happy -:- M's Freudian slip -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:28:43 (EST) __________L -:- Next Topic -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:37:52 (EST) ____________Happy -:- Re: Next Topic -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:46:39 (EST) ______________Happy -:- courage, not courange (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:48:40 (EST) ____________dv -:- Next Topic -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 09:22:07 (EST) ____HALIP -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 14:52:22 (EST) ______Helen -:- How many M-cult suicides? -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 18:02:18 (EST) wondering -:- padathanand -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 20:57:57 (EST) __Robyn -:- padathanand -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:11:03 (EST) ____Archer -:- padarthanand -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:38:07 (EST) ______Zac -:- padarthanand -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:45:46 (EST) __Brian -:- Seeing is disbelieving -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:26:49 (EST) __KK -:- padathanand -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:42:24 (EST) ____JW -:- Padarthanand -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:26:49 (EST) ______Happy -:- Padarthanand + porn -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:31:21 (EST) ________JW -:- Padarthanand + porn -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:39:52 (EST) __________Happy -:- Padarthanand + porn -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:02:29 (EST) ____________JW -:- Padarthanand + porn -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:10:43 (EST) ______________H -:- 70s (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:12:37 (EST) Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:30:55 (EST) __Mike -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:47:57 (EST) ____Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:53:50 (EST) ______Mike -:- Yes, it's true... we were! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:07:42 (EST) ________Mike -:- P.S. Carol was actually -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:19:53 (EST) ____Jethro -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:20:57 (EST) ______Marshall -:- On the word! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:42:30 (EST) ______Jerry -:- Scare of my life -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:25:33 (EST) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:17:27 (EST) ____Mike -:- BWAH ha ha ha ha ha ha -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:23:38 (EST) __JW -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:28:38 (EST) ____Mike -:- GOOD JOB, JW! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:38:50 (EST) ______JW -:- GOOD JOB, JW! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:16:43 (EST) ________Zac -:- Knowledge on sale! -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:42:22 (EST) __What's the definition -:- of Belligerent? -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:15:59 (EST) ____Robyn -:- of Belligerent? -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:21:39 (EST) ____Roger Drek -:- I demand an explanation! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:02:49 (EST) __Robyn -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:18:07 (EST) ____Irish grannie -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:26:20 (EST) __dv -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 22:24:34 (EST) __Nim -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:59:19 (EST) ____Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:28:50 (EST) __jethro -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:37:17 (EST) ____barney -:- sat naked in Maharaji's chair -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 03:47:28 (EST) ______barney -:- didn't sit naked! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:05:25 (EST) ________godiva -:- 3 bare ass barney 3 -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:39:09 (EST) __________barney -:- you should see me now... -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 01:59:16 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 06:45:22 (EST) ______Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:33:28 (EST) ______Jethro -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:38:06 (EST) __Mary M -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:12:17 (EST) ____Mike -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:54:26 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:06:39 (EST) ____John -:- memory of mary -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:08:06 (EST) ______Mary M -:- Memory of My Honeymoon -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:28:45 (EST) ________Helen -:- Memory of My Honeymoon -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:31:29 (EST) __________Mary M -:- Memory of My Honeymoon -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 20:52:23 (EST) ____________Helen -:- ROGER DREK read this -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 21:53:06 (EST) ____________Roger Drek -:- Mary The House of Drek awaits -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 02:18:57 (EST) ______________Mary M -:- Mary The House of Drek awaits -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 10:40:37 (EST) ____JW -:- Mary, I love You -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:48:44 (EST) ____Bobby -:- Love the fuck you's -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:14:15 (EST) ____Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:47:51 (EST) __Jerry -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:48:41 (EST) ____Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:37:00 (EST) __g's mom -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:17:01 (EST) ____Way -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:14:54 (EST) ______Mary M -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:42:57 (EST) ______Helen -:- EAT THE STRAWBERRY... -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:42:48 (EST) ____John -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:49:54 (EST) ____Helen -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:40:09 (EST) __Premmey -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:00:28 (EST) __Bobby -:- Beligerant premies unite!! -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:26:35 (EST) Judas Iscariote -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 15:42:50 (EST) __JW -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:07:12 (EST) ____Judas Iscariote -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:56:40 (EST) __JW -:- Notes From Dettmers Resume -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:32:49 (EST) ____Runamok -:- Dettmers Resume -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:49:04 (EST) ____Stevei -:- DECA -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:05:49 (EST) ______Will James -:- DECA -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:40:27 (EST) ______bill -:- DECA -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:59:37 (EST) __Judas Iscariote -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:25:55 (EST) ____JW -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:09:11 (EST) ______Judas Iscariote -:- Micheal Detmer -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:38:25 (EST) ________JW -:- Micheal Dettmers -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:49:08 (EST) __________Roger Drek -:- Are you sure he is an EX? -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 20:29:30 (EST) ____________outing ex's -:- this whole thread -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:03:28 (EST) ______________g's mom -:- my post above nt -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:05:47 (EST) ______________JW -:- this whole thread -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:15:08 (EST) ______________Jerry -:- this whole thread -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:41:28 (EST) ____________JW -:- I Have No Idea -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:11:10 (EST) ______________Runamok -:- boundaries -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:25:51 (EST) ________________Roger Drek -:- Public Persons -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:49:52 (EST) __________________Zac -:- Big Whigs of the Past -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:27:09 (EST) ____________________Miloochie -:- Legal Question -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:41:04 (EST) ______________________JW -:- Legal Question -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 17:56:13 (EST) __________________Happy -:- Dettmers -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:28:34 (EST) __________________Runamok -:- Public Persons -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:15:02 (EST) ____________________Stevei -:- M Dettmers**** CASH COW -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:52:58 (EST) __________Judas Iscariote -:- Micheal Dettmers -:- Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:20:22 (EST) SorryAnon -:- Jonathan Cainer on TV! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 10:30:28 (EST) __JW -:- Jonathan Cainer on TV! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:48:37 (EST) ____Orlando -:- light under the bushell -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 13:03:37 (EST) ______Mickey the Pharisee -:- light under the bushell -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 15:05:33 (EST) ________beel -:- John cainer the liar -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:45:00 (EST) JW -:- Oscar Nominations -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 15:33:43 (EST) __Rick -:- very amusing (nt) -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 17:08:11 (EST) __Roger Drek -:- The instant winner is... -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 17:14:29 (EST) ____Sir Dave -:- I hate to be a Judas but -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 19:54:01 (EST) ____bb -:- The instant winner is... -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 00:55:11 (EST) ______Roger Drek -:- Dettmers - (change topic) -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 01:17:05 (EST) ________beel -:- Dettmers - (change topic) -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 01:37:45 (EST) __________Roger Drek -:- Mr. Howard Beel, I presume -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 14:12:18 (EST) ________g's mom -:- Mr.Clean..that was funny!(nt) -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 09:36:56 (EST) __david m -:- Oscar Nominations -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 19:52:48 (EST) __Oscar! -:- JW deserves me! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 00:06:23 (EST) __G's mom -:- another gggreat post by JW(nt) -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 09:38:14 (EST) __Mike -:- LOL LOL, Great JW -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 10:19:06 (EST) ____Happy -:- Perfect, JW! -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:02:15 (EST) ______HALIP -:- Les Oscars 99 -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:40:17 (EST) ________Mike -:- I Accept the OSCAR on .... -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:17:33 (EST) __Helen -:- Oscar Nominations -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:49:25 (EST) george -:- maharaji obsession -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 23:16:24 (EST) __And On Anand Ji -:- (wrt) maharaji obsession -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 23:25:34 (EST) __Sir Dave -:- maharaji obsession -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 03:12:34 (EST) ____Becalmed -:- Mr. Move On is back -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 06:28:44 (EST) __AJW -:- maharaji obsession -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 06:39:45 (EST) __bill -:- georges misperceptions -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:40:37 (EST) ____bill -:- george is stuck! -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:49:33 (EST) __Rick -:- cult ignorance -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 13:35:51 (EST) __ex-mug -:- to George the Parrot -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 05:03:20 (EST) __Becalmed -:- your maharaji obsession -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:31:06 (EST) __Zac -:- maharaji's obsession -:- Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:46:38 (EST) ____Roger Drek -:- *** Best of the Forum**** -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 12:27:41 (EST) __Gail -:- Are you George Legere? -:- Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 00:54:46 (EST) __Ginette Sauvé -:- Salut old acadian twit -:- Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 16:46:15 (EST) |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:20:54 (EST)
From: Patrice Email: benede_p@cnam.fr To: Everyone Subject: Un fil francais ??? Message: Je souhaite inaugurer ici un fil de discussion francais sur le phenomene maharaji les pour les contres les joies les hallucinations , les deceptions, les suicides etc ... A vos claviers mes amis ex ou pro ... Moi personnellement je suis libertaire ... Donc ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:55:23 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Patrice Subject: Un fil francais ??? Message: Il est ici déjà: Le Forum Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 03:13:17 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: At this time, how many premies are known to have killed themselves, directly from their involvement with following Maharaji and his cult? Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:10:12 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: How many attempts? and how Message: many nervous breakdowns? how many sessions of therapy? how many hospitalizations? and why didn't people(I)(WE)speak up? Couldn't anyone see what was happening? And Jesus Christ, Micheal Donner I would never have suspected you were a weenie, SPEAK UP! I know that once you post your past PAM status will put you in the unwanted limelight! Well to that I say be creative and help out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:13:58 (EST)
From: Patrice Benedetto Email: benede_p@cnam.fr To: Miloochie Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: I know ... one He take oil and burn himself in a place named 'Le gué au anes' Bourges , france near 1987 Tierry .. I don't remember his familly name but i can get it and the real date ... He was young maybe 30 He was telling me a few days before 'Maharaji leave me ...' Peace to his soul ... write if someone want details ....I'll do my best ... So remember ... Never Maharaji tell anyone to kill himself ... He tell enjoy and continue to say enjoie the life ... Even i'm not agree with fanatism of some premis I still continue to say nobody is totally dark or totally white .. Best regards Excuse my poor english ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:02:25 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Patrice Benedetto Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: This is true: that Maharaji guides people to appreciate and treasure this life. He is the opposite of a suicide-monger. He is a life-monger. Many previously depressed and potentially suicidal people come to Maharaji for help. Not everyone avails themselves of the help in such a way as to drop old depressive habits so quickly...some end up killing themselves -- not because of Maharaji, but in spite of Maharaji. I'll warrant that many have lived longer lives due to M's influence, not shorter. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 13:00:37 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Gentle but short-sighted Message: Many previously depressed and potentially suicidal people come to Maharaji for help IF this is really true, those people should be advised to get help PRIOR to receive knowledge ! I've been part of numerous k selections and aspirant meetings, I've never heard of something like this. I've been part of several instructor trainings and meetings, M NEVER addressed this issue. Where is his 'love' for those people directed to? Not their well being for sure. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:11:52 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: I know of one in Denver, Colorado 1997. I don't remember his name, but many in the Denver premie community are aware of this person's suicide. He wrote a letter to Maharaji saying that his wife was terminally ill, and Maharaji made fun of the letter at the Miami 1997 event. This was a person who was devoted to Maharaji, and he was crushed, his wife had died, he sat in his car parked in his garage, and suffocated himself with the car running/exhaust. Allot of followers were talking about it at the Denver community video event the next day and how he was the one who wrote Maharaji the letter about his wife. He got no relief or sympathy from Maharaji about his wife's illness or the death of his wife. Maharaji made fun of him, and the followers in the audiance at the Miami event laughed along with M. It was a very tragic thing, I remember premies telling me privately that they were mad at M for his casual reference to this persons letter, but those same people who comfided this anger still follow Maharaji today. I wrote M a letter about this incident but he never answered my letter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:14:25 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: L Subject: Donner are you reading this? Message: Somebody has to stop this asshole! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:02:20 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: L Subject: that is really horrible L Message: That poor man must have been in agony. And then to be publicly ridiculed by his beloved guru.....you really can see how it could have driven him to take his own life. I recall having to drive the feeling out of my mind many times while a premie that Rawat seemed to hate the premies. So often in his satsangs there was a tone of ridicule. Especially toward the weaker but extremely devoted premies. Almost like he has got a bit of bully in him. L, that is really an especially sad story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:22:04 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: and even worse in France Message: I know of quite some premies who did kill themselves in France, but there are 2 cases among them: - one of them (didn't kill herself) poked one her eyes out of guilt. She was living in the ashram at that time (70s). - and another one who got electrocutated (and died) in the ashram (DLM's president was found guilty), she wanted to die at that time. Of course there is no way to tell she killed herself... Plus quite some others who killed themselves, unable to 'realize' knowledge and feeling guilty about it. Nobody ever 'realized' knowledge of course .... But that's a secret! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:52:25 (EST)
From: Wise Old Seer Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Realizing K Message: Nobody ever 'realized' knowledge of course .... But that's a secret! Actually, when you realize there's nothing to realize, you've realized it. How's that for zen?! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:44:34 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Wise Old Seer Subject: The wit and wisdom Message: WOS: Of the eastern mind never ceases to amaze me...... Knowing what I know now, I realize that I know nothing and that there is nothing to know, other than what I know, which is nothing..... Oh my god, I've made it..... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:06:48 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Wise Old Seer Subject: Sour Grapes, nothing more Message: So you didn't realize any of the Knowledge? And now you chew on sour grapes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:44:10 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Hey Mike Message: When life gives you sour grapes, make vinegar. Does that sound like a gooroo wisdom saying? Anyway(s), did you know you could realize 'part' of the so-called Knowledge? Apparently you can, according to Genital Reeder. So you didn't realize any of the Knowledge? And now you chew on sour grapes. Get back under your blankey Mike and start squeezing yer eyeballs... Gerry-- Feeling great and on a tear today. Thank you Mel Boring. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 14:48:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: So, how much did you? Message: GR: So, how realized are you? Are you liberated yet? Can you name ANYONE in the cult (mahatmas, too) that are liberated? On a scale of 1 to 10, how liberated are you? 1, maybe? Saying you can be 'partially' liberated with a statement like this: 'So you didn't realize any of the Knowledge..' IS ASSININE! What do you mean by 'any of the knowledge?' As opposed to what...ALL of the knowledge? I didn't realize that in came in 'pieces.' Oh, silly me! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:02:51 (EST)
From: Wise Old Seer Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: No sour grapes Message: So you didn't realize any of the Knowledge? No, Gentle Reader (what's that, BTW?). I DID realize the Knowledge. If you understood what I wrote you'd see that I 'realized' there's NOTHING to realize. Capiche? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:04:54 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and even worse in France Message: I still say these persons were predisposed to obsessive guilt and self-destructive acts. I'll wager if you did a background check on these people you would find clear indications in their past or their background supporting what I say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 13:02:20 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: and even worse in France Message: And I say these people don't need 'knowledge', they need professional help FIRST. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:45:25 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: L Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: L, I seem to recall Rawat's snide remark concerning this situation. Another casualty of the cult, how sad. I do feel this re-inforces the viability of our forum. I am certain were I to feel suicidal or down and conveyed this to my fellow ex'es an abundance of support would be there. Let us never forget. Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:52:39 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: L Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: L, That was really the worst case of suicide within M's cult that I heard of. It really makes me more angry than ever before, and that bastard should not get away with this. Shame on you, Mr. Rawat, shame on you, howe many lives haven't you destroyed. You will get down, Mr Rawat, one day you will pay for everything. I personally know one case, an ashram-premie, who hanged himself in a skipping rope. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:11:10 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Happy Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Shame on you for blaming the one person who has prevented more suicides than you will ever know. So much baloney is achieved on this website. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:36:56 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Dear gentle reader, Hey maybe I should call myself ''gentle Responder'' What do ya think Mel, baby? Anyway(s) How the fuck would you know something like the number of suicides prevented? This just isn't possible, verifiable or logical. See what a brain dead cult geek you are? You can't even begin to think straight about this, can you? (hint: the correct answer is 'no'.) Poo on you Genital Reeder Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:19:44 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: gerry Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Gerry, I gotta tell you. You really crack me up sometimes. But what are you picking on somebody who's in a coma for? LOL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 18:40:47 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Gerry, I gotta tell you. You really crack me up sometimes. But what are you picking on somebody who's in a coma for? LOL. It keeps me sharp for my battles with JW... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:23:00 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Ok, I'll bite.... Message: GR: I really want to KNOW; exactly how many suicides has M prevented? You obviously KNOW the answer to this question and the answer is relevant. So tell us..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:53:41 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mary M Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Can anyone recall exactly what M said at the program in reference to this person's letter re: his wife's misfortune? I would like to know this. I have come to understand that each human being is precious. To me, this is what spirituality is all about and I am still very much into spirituality. Really spirituality is the prime basis of my life. To see public ridicule of the precious inner feeling is atrocious. To me, the idea of public ridicule of precious human feeling is more than a 'drip', it's a splash. I have my own 'drip, drip' process and this process is unique just as it is unique for everyone of us. ------------------------------------ I am certain were I to feel suicidal or down and conveyed this to my fellow ex'es an abundance of support would be there. I think that all folks, ex'es or premies or 'ordinary folks' vary in their capacity for sympathetic response. I have been pleased and honored with the support I have gotten on this forum. I have also gotten a great deal of support from old friends who are still premies. M is kind of an aside in our relationship. Always has been. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:14:44 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Bobby Subject: I heard the Miami '97 satsangs Message: I heard them all in person and watched them all again on video. Maharaji has been grossly paraphrased to make it sound much different than what he actually said. He was not callous, as L. or whoever it was accused. It was very different than that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:47:32 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: I heard the Miami '97 satsangs Message: He was not callous, as L. or whoever it was accused. It was very different than that. Well, let's hear what you heard. What exactly did M say as you recall it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:36:45 (EST)
From: TechKnow Email: None To: L Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Forum lovers, Myself, more than any person I knew, was more aquatinted with the premie in Denver who mistook the value of his life’s breath for carbon monoxide. I knew him extremely well. The tragic and sad truth is that he constantly courted leaving his body in ways other than a yogic centered person would contemplate. I loved this person deeply, yet he could never accept being alone with himself. Those who knew him well will recognize the depth of these statements. With respect to his memory I will not go into the personality scars he accrued in his lifetime. It is enough to say he was extremely blessed, as we all are, to have lived. M had spoken of his letter, BEFORE this man decided to end his life, and I do not recall it being in Miami. Neither do I recall it being cruel, simply a description of 'the lethal unconsciousness'. It sounded more like a heads up than a thumbs down. Knowing this premie as I did, and knowing enough people around him, not premies…who had either taken their own life or were murdered, I wasn’t surprised he took this action, but was deeply saddened; as I still am when I feel his presence…his heart that touched mine for so long. By the way, this premie could not tolerate Bob Mishler. As he could not tolerate other 'Super Premies', as he called them. He would say 'they had a barragon up their ass'. I hope this is posted. I’m sending this with trust and the respect indicated in this forum for uncensored material. If nothing else, please try to remember one thing… this very moment has in it the kinetic energy of peacefulness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:56:46 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: I'm sorry for your loss of a Message: TechKnow: friend. I accept what you said at face value, but it does beg another question. Instead of 'using' this poor premie's plight to make a point during his satsang, why didn't M himself, personally visit this poor guy and let him know that he cared? Why does M always talk to premies from his ivory tower and never in person (particularly those that NEED IT!)? Why doesn't he answer the letters of those that are really in need of some 'personalized attention?' I don't want to hear that he is too busy. If he's god, then he can make (literally) the time to do it. If he's not, then he should make the time anyway and tell those that don't need any help (at the moment) to wait a bit. NEVER, that I know of or have even heard of, has he taken the time to respond to a premie in real need. Sorry, but this is even more damning than the original thought that he was just being cruel (IMHO) because it shows that he doesn't even care enough to be cruel, much less kind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:26:17 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mike Subject: I'm sorry for your loss of a Message: I never thought M was God but I agree with you Mike that as a 'spiritual leader' or master or guru or teacher or whatever, it is vitally important that he make an individual difference in individual lives. True caring is the mark of authenticity. Some who are caring can even show up as grouchy old fucks but they do make a difference personally in people's lives. Truthfully, even though only from my limited perspective, I don't see that M acts compassionately in people's lives. I'm just not into the icons anymore. I want Love and Truth for real. I know these qualities are present in life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 20:13:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: I'm sorry for your loss of a Message: Yes, I loved that about the 'grouchy old fucks'--I agree, Maharaji is so NOT the authentic article. I would rather have a grouchy but real guru anyday, one who shows up for stuff when people are in need. Of course, my Guru days are over. Twice burned, I learned. Now my guru is my dog. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 22:14:16 (EST)
From: TechKnow Email: None To: Sir David Bobby Mike Subject: I'm sorry for your loss of a Message: Unconsciousness CAN BE lethal. This I took at face value in the manner it was presented; i.e., the lack of ability to understand, to feel the heart, to feel a love inside that is not dependent on external influence of any kind…the lack of this presence invites a void. This CAN lead to filling that space with something that CAN lead to lethal confusion. Each person has the option, the choice, at any moment to decide what direction in which to move. EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS DIFFERENT. Some are strong, some are weak IT'S A PERSONAL DECISION. I am honestly speaking from my experience, that's all. I have seen alot of things, but I have NEVER seen most of what is presented here. That doesn't mean things have not happened, but in any relationship it's unhealthy to take things out of context or second hand, because you're not there for yourself to weigh it's importance, to you. You're getting a filtered view. I am suggesting that if you had attended a program where M spoke of some types of unawareness, forgetfullness, you MAY have felt a similar understanding as I did. Personally , I was glad to be reminded to go inside to a place which is not disturbing, AS A REMINDER that such a place does exist, than to spend my time worrying about it. The comment you are so enthralled with may not have had anything to do with DENVER PREMIE. Before you go running off, please consider that it was I, me, who simply TOOK THE STATEMENT as warning about dwelling too much in confusion. If Premie had come to me, as he did many times, I would have taken the time, as I have in the past, to remind him of an experience that is very beautiful. You can't live someone's life for them, all you can do is point in a direction that works for you. If they don't like it they're free to look wherever they feel the need. Sir David, call me cruel if you like, but I am not. Call my experience bullshit if you like, but it doesn't change my experience. It's amusing how you interpret what I have said, it simply doesn't feel the way I feel; your choice of words are disturbingly UNFAMILAR to me. With all do respect, you remind me of SPAM ; Some People Around M. Tell me this: how would YOU respond to someone who payed money to deceive you? How would YOU respond to someone who told explicit, very personal type lies about their relationship with YOU? How would YOU welcome someone who had chased you all over the country with nothing to say? How would YOU respond to someone who stalked you under the guise of 'friendship', or 'love'?. If you loved something about that person that was important to both of you, if you felt their heart rather than all this crap they carried around, you may, as I have done, try to counsel them. If that didn’t help you may suggest they get professional help. If that didn’t work, you might just move. IF YOU HOLD SOMEONE UP AS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PROVE, and they’re not here to say otherwise, how is that proof? If you didn't know them, how can you really say anything about them? I entered this forum to speak from an experience very similar to what M may have gone through with this SAME person. It seems you want TO EULOGIZE someone TO VILLIFY someone else. It seems you have not known either of them personally. I see that you’re more interested in tales of death, than living experience. I see why a person who cares about life and the quality of experience may not want to respond to your insistence on 2nd hand experience. I don't mean you ill-will or disrespect, but much of what you say just doesn't relate to what I know as true. PEACE Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:09:53 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! Message: TechKnow, there were private discussions all through the Denver Community when this 'premie' took his life and no-one came forward to talk about what you just posted. If fact, nothing was ever mentioned the following day in the official Denver community video gathering (at the Galleria Office Bldg.) about this guy, the organizational premies acted like it (suicide) never happened.They could have at least given the guy a minute of silence at the video event the next day, after all he was devoted to Maharaji and served the Denver Premie Community, and there were lot's of so-called followers who were very disturbed and upset with M and the community for their complacency over this matter. Further, I was at the Miami 1997 event, and I also have all the videos to that event, and Maharaji made fun of this guy. It's on video tape. Maharaji remarked about his wife's brain tumor and then mentiuoned that he got a letter from a premie saying his wife was terminally ill, and I quote: 'We're all gonna die one day anyway, and you're proberly better off without a wife'. And everybody laughed! He also mentioned in that same event that he was not going to any more weddings 'because these marriages only breakup anyway.' TechKnow, I don't think you knew this guy as well as you may think you did, and if you did where were you when he was taking his life? Where were you when the Denver community was anguishing about this? You surely don't sound like much of a friend to this person to be putting him down in preference of supporting your guru. If you knew this guy so well, you sure as hell were not much support for him. Personally, I don't think you know what you're talking about. There are allot of people in the Denver community who have different versions of this story, and most will proberly say they thought they knew him well. The bottomline facts are that the man wrote Maharaji, and Maharaji did'nt answer his letter, and the man killed himself. All this other psychobabble you want to attribute to the man is just bullshit. As eariler mentioned in this thread; the people on this ex-premie forum do support a cry for help, from premies, nonpremies, or their relatives and friends. Just read the past threads and you'll see that for yourself. There was no support for this individual who took his life, none whatsoever, and you further degrade him here with your devaluations. Shame on you TechKnow! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:40:05 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: Bobby To: L Subject: TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! Message: I quote: (attributed to M) 'We're all gonna die one day anyway, and you're proberly better off without a wife'. And everybody laughed! That sucks. The cavalier attitude was certainly present in a lot of premies and the premie community itself in a lot of ways. It's present in all organizations as far as I can tell, at least I've not been involved in any organization where faulty even grievously corrupt or abusive interpersonal relationships were not present. But again, I've run into many who are caring, on this forum and amongst the premies. Nobody is perfect. Quality of caring seems to be an individual thing, or perhaps with small groups in limited contexts -- apparently not organizations. The icon is out, the 'great leader' is gone. Leaders don't work. M sure ain't it. The Divine Light Mission party is long over. The history of people coming together for common higher purpose is very interesting. Communes, communities and social movements have come and gone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:29:07 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Laughing at painful attachment Message: Maharaji often shows us a way to laugh at our most painful attachments. I, for one, appreciate it. He knows something: that in the deepest pain, there is no better relief sometimes than humor, and being able to laugh at our problems, and laugh at ourselves, and laugh at those very attachments that make us want to kill ourselves when the neediness sprung out of our desires go unfulfilled or thwarted. Maharaji knows that these attachments bring us much pain. He helps us to look at it from another perspective, and in a way to make a molehill out of a seeming mountain. I know, because he has helped me in this very manner. Every time he jokes about relationships, this helps me. It does not prevent me from having relationships, but it helps me to live with a perspective that is more realistic, and which allows me to feel more appreciation in my life. Maharaji has shown me that even amongst deep tumult I can find gratitude, and that that very gratitude is my life-line. I thank him again and again. You are like people printing how many suicides people committed after called a suicide hotline: 'Thirty people called the Lifeline Hotline for suicide prevention last month. Six of these people committed suicide after talking to the hotline 1 to 17 times. SHAME on those suicide hotline people for causing those deaths! Let's put up a web site and print their names and tell the world they have caused the deaths of those six poor victims! Hear, hear!!' The paragraph above is a perfect parody of what you all are doing when you blame Maharaji for suicides. Do you have enough honesty to see that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 12:20:45 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Laughing at painful attachment Message: that in the deepest pain, there is no better relief sometimes than humor, and being able to laugh at our problems I agree with the gift of thoroughly. Humor is really great. Humor is a funny thing though. Sometimes humor can be used derisively. Then it is hurtful. Don't you think there needs also to be time for real sincere caring? Don't you think a real master would know when sincere caring would be appropriate as opposed to humor? I know that there have been plenty of times when I was in a lot of psychological pain when I couldn't see the joke. I was hurting too much. I've seen no evidence of one-to-one compassion on Maharaji's part. I hung around him some in the early '70's and talked with him. I never got that the aspect of real caring was there. I personally know a few people in great pain who sent him letters and got no response. They were devotees who had given them significant parts of their lives. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 15:32:25 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: 'Painful Attachments' Message: GR: What in the HELL do the following statements you made mean? I know they have been premiespeak for decades, but what, really do you mean when you use them? ...painful attachments... ...those very attachments that make us want to kill ourselves Maharaji knows that these attachments bring us much pain. What are these PAINFUL ATTACHMENTS that make us want to kill ourselves? Care to explain? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:50:02 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: I Apologize To TechKnow Message: I am very pissed off about this persons death and the lack of support and acknowledgement he received, in his cry for help as well as after his death. TechKnow I mean you no disrespect. There were many in the Denver community that were touched by this suicide. I publicly apologize for the inferences in my post, I do not mean to offend you. This one was hard on allot of people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:04:37 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: L Subject: I Apologize To TechKnow Message: I just want to say that support and acknowledgement are sadly lacking in our civilization as a whole. We have all kinds of excuses and reasons we tell ourselves for not supporting and acknowledging others. I think the premie kingdom as a whole is no different than society at large in this respect. I was very excited about DUO and the potential for service working directly to relieve suffering but this is a dream long gone. However, I found that that dream still meant a lot to me. I left the ashram to work in a mental institution and I worked in such facilities off and on for more than ten years. Today my work is in support of the survivors of such situations. I can tell you straight out that there are lots and lots of people hurting. In respect to some of the particular situations I am familiar with, society is very afraid of 'mental illness' so many of the people hurting the most are not supported or acknowledged. I'm sure that others here are familiar with lots of other situations where people are hurting. What's my point? I guess I'm saying that I'm really realizing that relief of suffering - including support and acknowledgment of others - is an important part of life and the spiritual path if you still see yourself on one. The hope that DLM and M represented to me back in the 70's -- as a social message -- was another of my own personal disappointments in my search for connection with true spirituality that would make a difference in the world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 05:11:36 (EST)
From: TechKnow Email: None To: L Subject: Response Message: To L and Bobby, L, I am really glad you sent an apology. You see, the problem I had with your first post was the very same problem encountered with administrative folks: there is a too great a tendency for people to 'think' for others. No one can ever deny that what I experienced with Denver Premie was not real. It was. NOTE: please DO NOT refer to Denver Premie by his given name. I simply request this for consideration of his mother, sister and brother, whom I hope are doing well (I never met his brother). It was two people merging, in their hearts. Without a physical union, we merged more than most people would ever consider. Many times, on long journeys, we never spoke, yet when we did, it was completely in response to what the other was contemplating, mentally. It was really, only a magic that comes from inside of the heart. Please tell me which Miami program you are referencing. M responded to a letter I had written also at those programs. M’s response was very loving, more extended then I would expect and for the most part, right on. I am addressing the 'least part', which is simply the very same, completely dunderheaded impulse, reaction, people have in ascribing their personal traits and failings, judgments on to another person without a reasonable understanding or trust. TRUST vs fear. I can never be something I am not, simply because it would fit a corporate agenda. It just will NEVER work. There is simply something unspoken to be experienced in a one to one encounter which enables trust. Where was I? Denver Premie did flip. Big Time. In his conduct, with me, he became completely unreasonable. Completely unreal. I absolutely will not repeat details. It is enough to say he felt his heart had been abandoned when I had done absolutely nothing to abandon the trust we shared. I loved this man, though I know he completely misrepresented me many times. In very personal ways. He mistook the love of his heart for some conditional definition. He knows, I know, this is true. What else can I say but the LOVE we shared was A RESPECT of a recognition and experience of a GREAT INNER GIFT. Not something to be chased, or to chase after, but a Gift. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 09:17:39 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: Jim Heller mentioned a Carl Message: Kamm had committed suicide in Denver- do you know anything about that? Regards- dv. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 11:54:29 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: Offensive Response Message: Where was I? Denver Premie did flip. Big Time. In his conduct, with me, he became completely unreasonable. Completely unreal. I absolutely will not repeat details. It is enough to say he felt his heart had been abandoned when I had done absolutely nothing to abandon the trust we shared. I loved this man, though I know he completely misrepresented me many times. In very personal ways. He mistook the love of his heart for some conditional definition. I don't know this person and I doubt I know you. But, as an uninvolved observer, I am really offended that you would take the time to so thoroughly criticize the psychological make-up of a person who is now dead and can't speak for himself, all for the purpose of letting your fraudulent 'master' off the hook for demeaning and denigrading, in front of thousands of people, this guy's sincere question to his 'master.' I would really question that you were this guys friend at all or that you really loved him. Your words suggest otherwise. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 05:48:01 (EST)
From: TechKnow Email: None To: L Subject: I Apologize To TechKnow Message: My precious friend So many times you looked in the places where a heart could not be found I was not your heart but I was beside you, when you asked My tears are as real as the hope you showed me and the pain I know exists with a heart torn in a battle where no one wins You would want the division to end You wouldn’t want to be a martyr for those who cared little or a scapegoat for the one you loved most The music I hear is the beat of a dance you did so often and one I hope you can feel now So many times you were my heart’s delight the gifts you gave me are still here as you know, I can’t part with the things made from hands of love, nor will I ever forget how we made so much effort, together to always remember what we both loved most If I grow old, a rocking chair will sit empty beside me perhaps you will visit if miracles do exist I will welcome the love you could bring JSCA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:31:47 (EST)
From: bilhe he Email: None To: L Subject: the bizarre laughter Message: L, I can relate to your mentioning about the laughter after that comment because as I was leaving my programming, I would still watch videos and I became very surprised to notice that premies seemed to have a huge disconnect with what he was saying. Since he is inshrined in the god/master status, the audience was having experiences that he was not sharing! On the videos it can be readily seen and rewound. You can watch his face and hear his words and then notice how the audience seems to be an inappropriate laugh track. The audience reaction to many of his sentences must surprise him because he is just yammering on and not having the same experience the audience is having because he is not doing what they are doing. They have traveled to see the divine master and damned if anything is going to stop them from seeing things that way. After reading some of the posts tonight, I am picking up the style of those that type one huge paragraph!I wonder if there is any punctuation or reading the JM e mail is taking it's toll also Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 00:29:49 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: L Subject: TechKnow, You Don't Know!!! Message: Thankyou for a very well written letter (paragraphs or no paragraphs). This sums it all up for me. Are you still going to the Galleria? Yes believe it premies, no-one will cry for you when you are gone because M didn't tell them to. When are these people going to think for themselves. 'You're probably better off without a wife.' How insensitve can a perfect master get. I knew a lovely guy called Dougie Little in Britain who after being a very devoted premie died of an overdose in hospital. Infact there is a picture of him on Michelles page holding up the banners with the other 'Mahatmas'. I'm sure M didn't give a shit about him and no-one would bother to tell him because they knew he wouldn't care. It's a crime that he doesn't answer letters. Perhaps I'm wrong - let me know if M sends condolences. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:21:15 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Thank you for that 'other perspective' Tech. I had not read your response before I posted what I did just up above. Re: M himself, I don't really know what to make of him per se. I find his role very interesting, just as I find the roles of various other 'gurus, mystics, saints, charlatans, characters' very interesting. They show up in all the spiritual traditions. For me that doesn't make spirituality less real. The faults, foibles and follies of all of us as humans are very present. Apparently M is into the big bucks. So are many of us. He seems to have taken advantage of many. So he is a big fool. So are just about all of us. I see M as a vehicle for the Knowledge package and rather than being 'god in human form' I've always seen him primarily as a giver of knowledge. I kept looking for Divine Signs in M and didn't personally experience much. Even with involvement with Divine Light Mission in the '70's I was always interested in the ranges of gurus. I always thought that perhaps I was missing something. Others were very devoted and spoke of M as God in human form. I was one of the bongos. I loved the love, the people and the meditation. Today I'm proud to say I am was a bongo and apparently I continue as somewhat of a bongo even amongst the ex'es. I'm truly sorry that some here have experienced a lot of pain for their involvement. This forum is a kind of contemplation for me. I don't disparage anyone else's experience as long as they are not attacking others to hurt. Knowledge made a good and big difference in my life. Over many years since non-involvement with M, I've integrated what I got out of my whole experience into the bigger picture of my life. I believe spirituality is very, very real. What convinces me of this is my own unique life experiences. I'm not here to convince anyone else but I am here to speak of my own experience. ------------------------------------ The idea of 'Super Premies' is very funny and interesting. That's what we bongos used to call folks like Gary Girard and SitaRam and others in India 71. Actually I kind of liked Mishler in '71. I was around him a bit in India. So what. People are people and we are all different. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:04:52 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: TechKnow Subject: What is this persons name?nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 16:06:04 (EST)
From: BC Email: None To: L and everyone Subject: Techknow's friend Message: I, too, knew this Denver premie. I did not spend nearly as much time with him as Techknow, but he touched me, and had been kind to me. I spent some time with him before and around the time he wrote the letter to Maharaji which L refers to. This premie was clearly in the midst of a severe mental health crisis at the time, exacerbated by his wife's illness among other things. I thought he needed antipsychotics and possibly hospitalization then, based on the content of our conversations at the time. He rebuffed my suggestions as a friend to seek professional treatment. The mental health system is, unfortunately, seen as an enemy by those who most need it (and it sure isn't perfect, that's for sure). The 1997 letter under discussion was delivered to M after his morning address at the Aurora, IL program, as had been promised to this premie. After the morning break at that program, which I attended, M came back to do the Knowledge review and answered the premie's letter directly, giving what I remember to be a compassionate, gentle, loving reply. I'd love to be able to quote it, however some of us are blessed with detailed verbal recall, but regretfully I'm not one of them. I remember how sad I was that this person had left during the break, so he did not hear M's reply. The Miami program was perhaps a month later. I haven't seen the videos of Miami in a long time, so I can't comment as to what was said there, but I do know that I was not under the impression when I was in Miami that anything there was about the Denver premie's letter. Incidentally, the Denver premie was not at the Miami program to my knowledge. His suicide was truly tragic, as are all suicides. Could it have been prevented? No one can ever know, and thus in my view, no one really should speculate. I do think he was treated with kindness by M and by some premies who came into contact with him during this time in his life. Most of his contacts were not premies, and I'm not sure what was occurring in that arena at the end of his life. Having known 3 people well (not premies) who have killed themselves, I think that sometimes friends, family, others, are powerless to alter the outcome, no matter how supportive they are. Depression and/or psychosis are deep, dark holes, and the person does not believe there is a way out during these times. Medication can prevent many deaths, in my view. People from all sorts of walks of life kill themselves, unrelated to whether they are premies, ex-premies, or neither. L's report of the events, inaccurate in my view, was not unexpected. After all, everyone alive filters events through his/her own view and experiences, and so interprets and remembers things differently. What disturbs me is the reporting of these things as fact by those who were uninvolved or don't know the context, then the taking of these reports by completely uninvolved others who use these snippets to bolster their cause. It's irresponsible, and every time I have seen one of these suicide threads here, I've felt this way. Wishing you all fulfillment, BC Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 22:59:29 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: L Subject: Can anyone find this speech? Message: Sounds like a major quote for permanent posting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 10:56:57 (EST)
From: Gentle Reader Email: None To: L Subject: Suicide of widower Message: That's preposterous to put the blame on Maharaji for this man's suicide. He obviously killed himself due to his grief over his wife, NOT because Maharaji tried to help him let go of the lethal potential of that over-attachment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 11:48:48 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Suicide of widower Message: Boy, Genital Reeder you are one cold motherfucker. You've really got a bad case of it. The gooroo certainly shines through you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 16:38:45 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Attachment is NOT lethal Message: You think it's LETHAL to be attached to your spouse?? NONONO it's lethal NOT to be attached to people. This is scientifically PROVEN in maternal infant studies & in depression and suicide studies. What the hell are are you talking about and where the hell are you coming from???? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:25:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Attachment is WONDERFUL! Message: Helen: My attachment to my wife and kid is what keeps me going! These guys don't even understand the 'eastern' platitudes the spout! If they did, they would laugh at them as hard as we do! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 20:36:51 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/Gerry Subject: Attachment is WONDERFUL! Message: You and me both, Mike. My marriage 'saved' me from a roller coaster nightmare of UN- attached UN- trusting relationships. Growing close to my hubby has been a richer experience by far and has helped me to open up more to other people and to life MUCH more than that goofy pseudo love bond w/M. One doesn't have to look to marriage to find closeness to others--but closeness to others is PARAMOUNT to real happiness, IMO. To say that attachment is lethal is so frightening, so void of humanity, so robotic, it's right out of Brave New World. Gerry's reply was RIGHT ON. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 17:44:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gentle Reader Subject: Suicide of widower Message: GR: Grrrrrrrrrrr! You are a number one candidate for the Joseph Goebels school of spin-doctoring! Sign up right away! When you say, 'lethal potential of that over-attachment,' when speaking of a human's love for another, you PROVE how SICK and DEMENTED this little freaking cult is! Your brain is so warped, I don't believe there is ANY HOPE that you will become human again! I guess it's ok for M to poke fun at this man's loss and of course it's ok for premies to laugh along.... OH NO, this couldn't possibly have anything at all to do with his suicide.... How stupid are you GR? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:11:59 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: Shortly after I received K in 1973, wanting to do service, I was sent to visit a premie in hospital in London who had attempted to kill himself. Looking back, it seems strange to send a new premie to do such a service. Anyway, this guy was laying in his hospital bed in a state of complete despair. The conversation got round to K and I mentioned the difficulty I had with the nectar technique. I was shocked by his reaction - he clearly believed that discussing the techniques, even with another premie, was a mortal sin. I can't remember his name and I never knew what happened to him. The chap who drove into the Reigate house gates was well known to me. Not exactly a suicide attempt, but it could easily have had the same result. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:15:22 (EST)
From: boot bhill Email: None To: JHB Subject: Three that I knew Message: I've told the stories before but I know two conneticut girls that were 21 and 24 that killed themselves after leaving the ashram in hartford and new haven. In 79-80 the 21 year old was named Debbie Katz and she was a real sweetheart but to get knowledge in 1979 you had to move in the ashram just about the day you got knowledge. And the common comment at that time was if you moved out of the ashram they would put a tombstone in the backyard because you were dead. I am not making this up. It was the custom in india and it was sure mentioned around me more than a few times. I was never in the ashram. That's a whole other story. Also since we are on dreadful m related suicide on this potent thread, a girl named mira bia lived in miami and she was a gopi style premie and there was rawat playing krishna full out so she took him at his word and tried to get close to him. Being rebuffed because she was, well, a premie, (not pretty enough to merit a mistress status), she ended up climbing over the fence at the residence and slashed her wrists (the wrong way) and bled on some of the carpet. It was a big security freakout and m went on vacation with the family and she was banned from seeing him. She wrote him a suicide note asking him to incarnate her in a future lifetime when she could be around him. And she left. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 06:10:51 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: boot bhill Subject: PR don't come back from India Message: I hope he won't. This thread is too much. I don't know if even in India they'll accept that sort of so-called 'guru'. What's funny is that in one of his recent satsang in India he stressed the point that (I quote from memory): 'people say this is a money-racket' (do people dare say this in India?), when it's not bla bla .... He's got nothing to do anymore here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 06:55:45 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: North America in June Message: That's what I hear. That better off without a wife comment was too much. Many laughed but many did not! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:28:43 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Zac Subject: M's Freudian slip Message: 'Better off without a wife' - this quote by M. deserves to be remembered as much as the Peace Bomb. They are both so totally off the wall. Mr Rawat is so ridiculously insensitive towards others' feelings and unaware of his own psychological make-up. In retrospect, it's obvious that he had no idea at all about the place of agony and pain from where the letter came. And his response was, as usual, full of himself, totally from his own narcissistic point a view. He made quite a Freudian slip, a projection from his own psyche: What he actually revealed about himself was his own marital problems - that he himself rather would be without a wife. You don't need to be a psychoanalyst to realize that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:37:52 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Forum Subject: Next Topic Message: I've read all the posts in this thread and I can't say anything more. This was a very real thing that happened. This individual killed himself shortly after I had returned (to Denver) from the Miami program 1997. Many premies in Denver know about this suicide. Out of respect, I am not going to mention the persons name. He does have family and loved ones who don't want him martyred on the internet. This incident was one of the dynamics that pushed me further away from Maharaji and the premie community, no I don't go to the Galleria any more, nor do I attend M's events. I still do the meditation, and enjoy it. I don't want to post anything more about this guy's suicide. It was a real thing that happened, I didn't make this up, and I'm disgusted with maharaji and the premie community over this..... and other things as well that I'm sure will come out in my future posts. But for now, for my own emotional sanity, I must say 'Next Topic.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:46:39 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: L Subject: Re: Next Topic Message: L, I certainly understand you. I think it was important that you brought this up, and I see absolutely no reason to question your report. I thank you for courange in doing it, although it was painful for you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:48:40 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: L Subject: courage, not courange (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 09:22:07 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: L Subject: Next Topic Message: The only reason I asked for a name is because I was a childhood friend of Carl Kamm, who someone here mentioned had committed suicide. We knew each other in Panama and Brazil, both our fathers were CIA operatives. We fell out of touch after milleneum, and I always wondered how he was doing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 14:52:22 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: In all fairness, I never knew any premies who committed suicide, but had the incredible sorrow of having two friends doing so in the last 8 years... I think the reasons someone commits suicide are so complex, so difficult to understand logically, as it goes against this life instinct each living thing seems to have, that it is hard to attribute this gesture to one single event. HOWEVER, it doesn't absolve M from his share of responsability in that Denver Premie suicide, as quoting his letter and making fun of the death of his wife is callous, heartless, insensitive and mainly very, very stupid. All that for the sake of a 'bon mot'. It'd disgusting and it's a total betrayal of trust! I'd like to add that last year, I had a long, very long phone conversation with a premie who was just recovering from a nervous breakdown. He was so distraught by the some of the premies' lack of compassion, it was really heartbreaking. Apparently, most of them wouldn't give him the time of day and they stopped even greeting him, as if he had stopped to exist. He told me then : 'You know a tree by his fruits'... I though long and hard about his comment. I was an ex then, but it reaffirmed my conviction that the teaching that M impart is totally superficial and sorely lacking in humanity... Anyway, a tragic subject. I just got really sad about my two lost friends... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 18:02:18 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: HALIP Subject: How many M-cult suicides? Message: I hope your friend is doing better now. I'm sure it came as a shock when he didn't find the support needed among the premie community. But I hope he has found the support he needs. The fruits metaphor is a great one I think. Ironically some of the kindest most caring people I know don't believe in any religion or spiritual stuff, they just believe in simple human caring, which is really what it all boils down to. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 20:57:57 (EST)
From: wondering Email: None To: Everyone Subject: padathanand Message: Did I spell it right? Recieved k 73 or72 from him,thought he was the guru ,became a fence sitter for years after finally meeting m. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:11:03 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: wondering Subject: padathanand Message: Dear Wondering, I am sorry if this offends you but I think it is to funny that you thought Padathanand was the guru. You became a premie by misidentification! I hope it didn't take long to figure it out and didn't effect your life to much. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:38:07 (EST)
From: Archer Email: None To: wondering Subject: padarthanand Message: Padarthanand He has been well loved here in Aus. And wow did he use to Glow. I,m not surprised he was mistaken for M. He was a great inspiration for me. I was aspiring to be like him, a totally dedicated premie and happy. The last few years I have seen Padarthanand in Aus I noticed the glow has been replaced with a solemn worried look. Havn,t seen his beautifull smile for some time. Who knows, maybe he was suffering a bad case of indigestion at the time. Archer Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:45:46 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Archer Subject: padarthanand Message: Great Post down below Archer! Welcome to the page! Last time I saw P was about a year ago at a program and I agree he wasn't looking so good! He was young when he got involved and I'm sure he swallowed the story hook, line and sinker. I wonder if now he isn't spitting some of that story out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:26:49 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: wondering Subject: Seeing is disbelieving Message: became a fence sitter for years after finally meeting m Don't feel alone in this. While it might not have been common to mistake a mahatma for Maharaji, there are a lot of people whose doubts were first raised after seeing the Big Guy himself. I was one of them. If Maharaji really had some special saintly aura around him then the world would be a very peaceful place by now. But the only glitter surrounding him that I see is the money that he never earned. It's still pretty enough to hold his interest after all these years, though. Mine wandered off. But then I was never into DLM for the money... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:42:24 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: wondering Subject: padathanand Message: It would have been 1973 onwards, if you were initiated in Australia. Padarthanand arrived in Adelaide in mid-July, 1973. All I can say is: ALL REPRESSION AND NO EXPRESSION MAKES PADARTHANAND A DULL BOY! Noone could seriously accept him nowadays as a bona fide sacred soul! He never was and never will be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:26:49 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: KK Subject: Padarthanand Message: Thank you KK; It's always important to expose supposed saints as the fallable, and sometimes reprehensible, human beings they really are. Thinks maybe Pardarthanand's lack of joy these days might be to to certain chickens coming home to roost? I would also point out that Padarthanad toured in the USA heavily in 1975-1976 and then again around 1977-l9788. It was in the latter period when he grew his hair back, grew a beard, wore western clothes, but still had the sort of wild look in his eyes. It was around this period, after rejecting an African American aspirant to receive knowledge, that he imparted to me his racist views that blacks people by and large were lazy and unlikely to have the dedication to practice knowledge. I had a hard time accepting as one of Guru Maharaj Ji's lilas that such a holy man could also be such a bigot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:31:21 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: JW Subject: Padarthanand + porn Message: Just want to add that Padarthanand revealed an unusually keen interest in porn magazines, at airports. He seemed slimey, to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:39:52 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Happy Subject: Padarthanand + porn Message: Not surprised.....about the porn I mean. When did he tell you this? I always got the impression that when Padarthanand came to the states, he felt he never got the adulation he had been used to getting in Australia. I think in Australia he ran the mission like it was his private fiefdom and in the USA he was just one of many Mahatmas/Initiators that no one paid any particular attention to. He always seemed a little put out that he wasn't recognized as the spiritually high being he was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:02:29 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: JW Subject: Padarthanand + porn Message: He used to go over to the magazine stand, read through the porn magazines for a period of time, not skipping a page, and making comments about how disgusting it was... If it was so disgusting, why did he read them so thoroughly? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:10:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Happy Subject: Padarthanand + porn Message: What period of time are you talking about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:12:37 (EST)
From: H Email: None To: JW Subject: 70s (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:30:55 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I've seen people here characterize themselves as 'beligerant premies' here--a phrase that cracks me up!! . A question for all to ponder: What was your most beligerant act as a premie that you did or saw someone else do?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:47:57 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Helen: Scott T and I refused to stop going to Quality Pie, even after being admonished by our brethren to do so. Ok, ok, pretty wimpy, but I thought I would get the ball rolling... Is this better? Scott T and I travelling a bazillion miles per hour down PCH (in the middle of the rush hour) running red lights and hazarding every pedestrian (didn't see any, but sure they were there) while chasing M in his mercedes? Ok, how 'bout telling M's security guys to buzz-off when they tried to get us bongos to leave the field that was across the street from M's house on Sunset Blvd? How 'bout Scott T dancing a krishna lila on M's front yard..... Beligerent enough for ya, huh huh huh?????? :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:53:50 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/Scott T Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: The pie one is the best...are you saying they tried to restrict you from eating pies?? Why that's positively criminal. I think Homer Simpson would agree!! Scott T will you do your Krishna lila dance for me when we finally get to meet? I will have my video camera at the ready! Can't imagine either of you being bongo premies!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:07:42 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Yes, it's true... we were! Message: Helen: As bongo as they come! To be honest, Scott would have to find Rita to make the krishna lila dance ensemble complete. It was the funniest thing I ever witnessed. Imagine, Scott has a nice headdress (turban or something similar) and a 'stick' for a flute. They're dancing around M's front yard and everytime Rita turns her back on Scott, he plants his foot on her derrier..... Well, you get the picture... :-) As to QP, well you do KNOW that modern day pies have LARD in them, right? VEE VILL BE VEGETABLE-TARIANS!!!!!! ZAT IZ AN ORDER FROM DAS FUEHRER!!!!! Actually, Scott and I liked the coffee and the conversations that we could have (you know... chit chat) without someone coming up to us and telling us to meditate all the time. (No offense, Carol.... :-) Yup, Carol was our housemom! Small world, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:19:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen: Subject: P.S. Carol was actually Message: Helen: I thought I may have given you a misread of Carol... Actually, she was a 'tough' housemom (a.k.a. kitchen-nazi), but she was/is one of the kindest people that I ever met. I really enjoyed living in that house and she's one of the major reasons for it. Some of the 'other' premie houses were really uptight (should I say, anal) by comparison. BTW, I'm writing this with a really big smile on my face! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:20:57 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Mike Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: 'Scott T and I travelling a bazillion miles per hour down PCH (in the middle of the rush hour) running red lights and hazarding every pedestrian (didn't see any, but sure they were there) while chasing M in his mercedes?' I remember M saying that if you are 'on the word' you can drive 100mph thru thr rush hour with no danger. So you were only 'folloeing' him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:42:30 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Jethro Subject: On the word! Message: I just read your post to Mike, and the phrase 'on the word' struck me as extremely funny. I forgot about 'being on the word'. It sounds like being on hard drugs or something. I guess now premies don't get to have that intense rush of thinking they're 'on the word'. In these days of knowledge lite they have to make do with the impotent phrase 'enjoying that experience' instead. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:25:33 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Scare of my life Message: I remember M saying that if you are 'on the word' you can drive 100mph thru thr rush hour with no danger. I know a premie who believed this, literally. Once, on the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, in NYC, during a downpour, this guy was doing a good 60 miles an hour while everybody else was doing maybe 40 tops. Scared the shit out of me. Huge puddles that looked like ponds were everywhere. This guy just blazed through one after the other, apparently convinced that he was in the care of the Lord. But the weirdest thing this guy would do is pull over to the shoulder to meditate for ten or fifteen minutes at a time. I never drove with this guy, anywhere again, but so far as I know, he never got into an accident. Make of that what you will. I call it luck. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:17:27 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Once I switched the incense sticks on either side of the big picture on the fireplace mantel (which was our altar) with sparklers. I thought it was funny, but of course, you weren't supposed to be funny if a premie. I also squrited a premie in the face with a water pistol after he gave the standard 'I used to get mad at anything but now that I have this knowledge I am so full of love blah blah blah...' satsang. He went for me as I hollered 'I thought you were full of love!' I quit going to satsang not long after that incident. I really believed that we were supposed to be honest about our experiences when giving satsang, but since I didn't feel that love all the time, I had trouble believing that others did. What a bad man I am.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:23:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: BWAH ha ha ha ha ha ha Message: MP: Oooooooo, you vas a bad, bad boy, vazn't you? SPARKLERS? My kinda guy... water pistol and all! Tell me, did JW know you then? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:28:38 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I did some pretty bad stuff. It still makes me cringe when I think about some of it and I'm not sure I want to go into detail. But, basically, I laid some heavy satsang trips on people who were legitimately asking for help, love, compassion, to be listened too, etc. Rather than treat them like human beings, on more than one occasion I inflicted more pain on them in the name of the Perfect Master. I also got a number of people I cared about to get into the cult, and in all cases it was bad for them and their families. They are all out, but to some degree I think they still blame me for getting them involved in the first place. But, one of the things I am MOST proud of was towards the end of my premie career, I was ashram housefather and M was asking for money for yet ANOTHER plane. This was in about 1982. I just couldn't handle it and I told the community coordinator the ashram didn't have the money to contribute, even though we were quite well off, and instead I bought the ashram a new car, and all the brothers new clothes. I just gave them credit cards and and let them buy whatever they wanted. It felt great. This might seem small, but it was a big deal to me at the time, one of my first acts of defiance. Needless to say, I was outa there a few months after that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:38:50 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: GOOD JOB, JW! Message: JW: Do you remember the 'family breakup' satsang where M said that he was in control? Do you remember when he said (not a perfect quote, but close), 'I would walk the world barefoot and eat salt for food to spread this knowledge.' I think it's time to call his bluff! Considering the fact that he is apparently incapable of driving to the airport to take his luxury airplane to those far-off and primitive places (like Amaroo). He just MUST have a helo ride to the airport (so his poor little fat feet don't get overused by pressing a gas pedal, I guess). He's too fat and lazy to 'walk the world' barefoot and he's too used to having his custom cuisine prepared by a premie slaves to 'eat salt' as his only food substance. Actually, I think he was trying to 'shame' us into following him and doing propagation. I vividly remember seeing many premies in tears after that satsang...... what a 'positive' message he sent that day! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 13:16:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: GOOD JOB, JW! Message: Mike, It really struck me when I ran into those premies on Sunday and they said M had made lots of changes to aid in 'propogation.' It was apparently lost on these people that about the biggest impediment to propogation is Maharaji himself and the way he lives. So many people are turned off by knowledge when they find out that M is so rich and lives like a king. But despite making all these other changes, that is one M is not willing to make, even though he professes that 'disseminating knowledge' is his top priority. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 07:42:22 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Knowledge on sale! Message: You know how department stores put items on sale when they aren't moving? Well knowledge isn't moving in the US so MJ has put it on sale. Price: Cheap, Watch 11 videos from your home, and put up with mild contact with the local (nut) aspirant coordinator. Fine Print: You can have no other master in your life including dead ones (must be looking for athiests and agnostics). Purpose of this move: Fill the seats for his next North American Tour scheduled this summer. Let's see, The Last Gasp Tour! Tee shirts and hats sold by ex's outside, we could clean up baby!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:15:59 (EST)
From: What's the definition Email: None To: Helen Subject: of Belligerent? Message: Isn't it something having to do with waging war? I was into making love not war. Probably the most belligerent thing I ever did was that time in 1974 when one of the ashram brothers told me that they were allowed to give us premies on the outside Knowledge Reviews. I'm not quite sure how it happened, but the brother ended up ejaculating into a cup. JC, if you're out there--you know who you are! Oh, maybe I'm mixing up belligerent with lascivious. Sorry. Ophelia Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:21:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: What's the definition Subject: of Belligerent? Message: Dear O, To funny but wasn't it JC who was the belligerent party? Unless you did something with the cup! Love ya, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:02:49 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: What's the definition Subject: I demand an explanation! Message: Ophelia, you can't just leave it hanging out there like that, the ejaculate and the cup, I mean. And please, please, please don't tell me that you were in deep meditation or a trance! You must remember! For god's sake woman, remember! I'll never get to sleep trying to figure this out all night! Oh, never mind, my imagination is filling in the gap already. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:18:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Dear Helen, I don't know if you want to hear my story or if it is appropriate. I was an aspirant, Rick said if it happened 4 years later, when he was an aspirant they would have given me my walking papers. I went to the premie house I later moved in to to make bread. The house mother picked me up where I was living with friends. Before I left I smoked some opium with angels dust someone came by with, I couldn't resist. I started making the bread and the housemother went off to clean. When I got it ready to set and rise it started beating like a heart outside of a body. I called the housemother to see it and she just looked at me like I was crazy. I told myself, oops, must be the drugs, don't do that again. The next time I got the bread ready to rise it happened again and I told myself not to call her but eventually I did. Does seem like that would have been a red flag for them, eh? If that is how I started before I even learned K, they should have known I would be a bad apple. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:26:20 (EST)
From: Irish grannie Email: None To: Robyn/OPhelia Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: You were beligerant from the start you wicked wicked girl!! Imagine doing drugs while in service to our Lord. What in God's name were you thinking? That you had a right to a mind of your own?? And you there Ophelia, if you hadn't been temptin' that poor ahram brother with your naughty parts he wouldn't have had to suffer such humiliations. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 22:24:34 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I stole M's mala! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 23:59:19 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I told the schmendriks at the Amtext office that they were a 'gang of circus freak head fucking artists' Of course nothing compares with my beligerancy as an ex. Sometimes I even surprise myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:28:50 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Nim & dv & JW Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: HA HA to ya both, and to you JW, good on ya that you said hell no when they asked the ashram for more $$ for that damn plane! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:37:17 (EST)
From: jethro Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I claim 3 acts of beligerancy. 1. In the early 70s at one community satsang when we used have an altar in the front if the hall and people used to bring along prasad(food)and things, I was sitting there near the front and the person next to me said she was hungry(we had all just arrived straight from work).....so I was sitting there looking at all this food and thought ...well the Lord wouldn't mind if she had some of HIS food...so I walked up to the altar and took in full public view, a piece of chhocolate cake and an apple....and I gave it to her. How's that for beiligerancy? I sure got some amazing looks. 2. I once fell asleep in the Holy chair of Raja Ji and Rein Ji(Claudia). I got bollocked by PAMs. 3. I was living in an ashram that I hated(Kaliesia Ave,her was Nick Seymour Jones), so I forcebly moved myself to Emmanuel Ave(ACton). That aresehole and pervert Padarthanand, was in charge of the ashrams at that time and freaked aout and shouted at me. I said to him 'Ok Mahatma Ji, if I wasn't meant to be in Acton Ashram then give me satsang about it, what effect does it have other than making ME happier? Well he fumbled with his words and could not think of anything to say other than. 'Well it effects the financial balance..'. I then invited him to report me to GMJ. Anyway I stayed in Acton. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 03:47:28 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: jethro Subject: sat naked in Maharaji's chair Message: Not me, but someone else and because I wasn't there so this is strictly second hand. Guy named Phil R., who I did know and he was a bit out there for sure, sat naked in Maharaji's chair in the satsang hall of the Ashram. I heard that it took the police to return the throne to the rightful king. Maybe not beligerant, maybe insane. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:05:25 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: barney Subject: didn't sit naked! Message: Jesus, I just looked at that on the Index. I repeat, I did not sit naked in the Lord's chair. It was somebody else! I'm never gonna live this down! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 23:39:09 (EST)
From: godiva Email: None To: barney Subject: 3 bare ass barney 3 Message: that's quite a krishna suit Barney! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 01:59:16 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: godiva Subject: you should see me now... Message: sitting here in a velvet smoking jacket, black silk pj pants, and Gucci house slippers. And I'm enjoying some very fine cognac as we speak. Now, if you really want to see something then that when I'm playing with my magic flute and dancing in my chartreuse moo-moo. Or is that supposed to be mala? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 06:45:22 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: jethro Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Dear Jethro, I love that first rebellious act of giving that woman some food! What was her reaction? Wonder if she was here would she give an example of happily eating that food! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:33:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jethro and Barney Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Telling you it would upset the financial balance was the best he could do in the way of giving you satsang, eh? What a creep. And you Barney, sitting naked in the Lord's chair (I no it wasn't you). HA HA this is a fun thread> Maybe Barney's friend Roger would like some of these on his web site?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:38:06 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Hi Robyn, Well the woman's name was Cynthia and she enjoyed the food. She's still here in London as far as I know. I don't think she speaks to me any more because of my blasphemy. Love from Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:12:17 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Hi All, I have a few: 1. Soul Rush of 73 (?) By the time we got to Houston or wherever it was my favorite expression to anyone involved became 'Fuck You' this was not too cool as I was travelling in the bus with primarily 'Ashram' people. I finally fried out at the Coca Cola factory where they 'housed' us, fed us apple butter sandwiches, and let us experience the sublime bliss of cold showers under a spigot. My 'Fuck Yous' were rapidly becoming the standard response to 'You're in your mind'. On the bus ride back to Boston I believe I totally freaked out when the 'Bus Mother' handed me another mushed apple butter sandwich (standard fare for all of Soul Rush participants). I moved beyond 'Fuck You' and became quite vengeful (hunger does that to people) This was the final straw. I threatened to shove the apple butter sandwich up Maharaji's ass if they didn't let me off the bus to get some food. There was a murmuring of 'She's in her mind' and of course a stream of 'Fuck You All's from me. The driver stopped the bus so I could chill :-) 2. Back to Rome. As most of you remember from my previous post I was able to get out of the 'Coliseum' during the 'Darshan Lockdown'. I had maneuvered myself and baby to the iron gates, reached through the bars and grabbed the Rawat security dude by the tie or neck. Naturally, I resorted to brute force and threatened to make him a soprano for the rest of his life if he didn't let me out! I think the look in my eyes made him unlock the gate for me. He probably thought, 'She's in her mind' but didn't want to risk the family jewels by vocalizing his thought! 3. Tee-hee.... early on in my ex-premieship I liked to sneak into various premie houses with a small squirt bottle of Clorox Bleach. I'd wait til people weren't around, take the biggest pictures of Maharaji off their altars, remove the back of the frame to get to the picture and of course I'd squirt bleach all over his face. I never heard anything about this particular subversive activity. I imagine the premies thought their pictures were turning into 'Divine Light', which of course was another satsang subject which would provide proof of Rawat's divinity. That's all for now..... Chuckle, Chuckle, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:54:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Mary M: '... I'd squirt bleach all over his face.' Now, THAT'S belligerent! Good job! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:06:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mary M Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Dear Mary, I LOVED your post I could see my oldest daughter, Jess, doing the same thing! As she once said about Rick...You are snotty right up her alley. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:08:06 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Mary M Subject: memory of mary Message: wow that's so amazing because I remember you! I was in D.C. and I had the job of getting the food to the kitchen where all the soul rushers were to be fed. (As a totally irrelevant aside, I was known in dc at the time as John Food.) Well, the day your circus came through town, the housemothers all got together and made a batch of several hundred apple butter sandwiches. Then I had the blissful job of delivering those sandwiches. Everyone had just gotten back from the Washington Monument where Bhole Ji and Blue Aquarius had played before about 2 dozen tourists who had happened to be wandering by. When I walked in with the food for dinner, I expected to be greeted with the appropriate blissful 'Jai Sat chit anands'. Instead a rather belligerent sister confronted me and wanted to know what was for dinner. I was somewhat surprised by this query since most premies at the time were detached enough from the finite needs of their physical form to not care about something as insignificant as food. When I answered 'Delicious applebutter sandwiches on organic oat bread' the sister muttered something which sounded very much like 'fuck you'. I was so taken aback that I figured I must have misheard. But now, I realize that yes indeed, my ears had not deceived me. Hey Mary, when you write your memoirs I'll be sure to buy a copy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:28:45 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: John Subject: Memory of My Honeymoon Message: Er... gee guys & gals... would an apology 26 years later suffice for all the 'Fuck You's?' BTW - what is the grammatically correct way of writing 'Fuck You' in the plural? In retrospect I was probably expressing a deep Freudian need to be fucked. Believe it or not according to my ex-hubby 'SOUL RUSH WAS TO BE OUR HONEYMOON' and the bliss of Samadhi would be much greater than any orgasm... go figure! So we married in the afternoon, headed down to the Boston YMCA, and set off to one of the seven circles of hell. I have yet to figure out which circle. Unlike a real circus, our travel arrangements were segregated. I spent my entire honeymoon with the 'sisters' while ex travelled with the 'brothers'. The moral of this story is: 'Never try to hand an apple butter sandwich to a hungry, horny, and harangued bride on her orgasmless honeymoon!' One of these days I'll get my journey completed to clear up how I fell into the oddest brouhaha of my life! Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:31:29 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Memory of My Honeymoon Message: Man, you need to write a chapter for the Chronicles of the Red Nighty: My Honeymoon From Hell. No wonder you were cranky!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 20:52:23 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Helen Subject: Memory of My Honeymoon Message: Helen, LOL ... Where is this Red Nighty site? Love, Cranky Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 21:53:06 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mary M Subject: ROGER DREK read this Message: Can you provide Mary M with a link to your website? Don't worry Mary, Roger heavily advertises whenever new chapters of the CORN go up on his website, and he provides links! Chapters are posted here and then posted on his site, it's quite a wild read in its entireity!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 02:18:57 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Mary The House of Drek awaits Message: Good idea, Helen. Mary, maybe you could write a detailed story of your Soul Rush Honeymoon complete with every Fuck You's for the Chronicles of the Red Nighty which is an on-going saga of a number of souls involved in the Cult of Maharaji. We have nothing at all on the historic Soul Rush nor Millenium. I suspect that your story could fill this gap in such a way that no one else could come close to. Mary, you might be pleased to know that I was so taken by your story about your grandmothers heirlom watch (or was it a ring? watch worked better for the story) that I included something about it chapter, Holy Smokes. Roger's House of Drek The Chronicles of the Red Nighty is in the HOT section. I'll probably add many of these belligerent posts in the Best of the Forum section. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 10:40:37 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Roger Drek Subject: Mary The House of Drek awaits Message: Roger That! I'll certainly do my best! But, I just can't fathom how my 'Soul Rush Honeymoon' saga fits under the 'HOT' Red Nighty Thread;-) And to think after all these years that little rogue (M) was getting his all along. Perchance he'd contribute to the Red Nighty? Oops, I forgot he was under age at that time and his 'Karma Sutra Delights' might incriminate a few gopis. I believe it's called statuatory rape. Gee, People Magazine would probably pick that story up. Wasn't there a 'female' school teacher sent to prison after she was impregnated by her 14 year old lover? Gotta Run for now! Love to all, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:48:44 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Mary, I love You Message: I'd squirt bleach all over his face. This is brilliant. You gotta love somebody who would do that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:14:15 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Love the fuck you's Message: Hey Mary, I admire your spirit! You go girl! In sincere appreciation of your elegant and powerful female energy. Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:47:51 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: HA HA--say three Hail Maharajis and do penance by giving him lots of money...then you will be absolved--great stories, seriously. How could any of us maintain our sanity without these acts of beligerance???? If you weren't beligerant at some point you were toast, IMO Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 10:48:41 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Once I was offered the service of licking stamps and sealing envelopes for a mailing. I got so drunk before I arrived for the service I could hardly walk straight but I showed up anyway. I think the other premies there kinda got a kick out of it. At least they were all smiles everytime they looked in my direction. I must have been quite a sight. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:37:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: You were drunk on the nectar of our Lord...how sweet! Wait a minute you drank ALCOHOL and you were a premie?? Say three JaiSatchitanands and ten Boleshris and pranam 10 times, my son. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 11:17:01 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: If beligerant means acting holier than thou in Rawat's name I did a lot of that. I cannot recall too many exact times but I know I felt that my level of devotion was the benchmark for good enough and anyone who was less devoted and stuck to the party line less than I was a lesser being than myself. I am certain that disgusting attitude showed in my behavior. I wish I had done something wonderful like JW in the ashram. That is great. I do recall being the recipient as well of this sort of behavior. Here I will name a name...Newt Gay.....I came back from school with this pile of books and was thrilled to show him how I had been accepted into this honors program in high school. I was proud. OOOppps....pride is bad.... well he let me know. He looked over the books....and said...I don't know...'looks pretty mindy to me'.....slam bam I withdrew from that program. I thought Newt hated me. Looking back I think he probably did not hate me. As he actually helped me get to Rome 77 in some way with some money from DLM. Remember I was a minor. I think for a premie that would have been one of the ultimate kind acts. Even though of course in retrospect I would trade Rome for the honors program. Newt, if you read this, if you are an ex, I do not hold this against you, you were trying to be a good premie. I am sure I laid just as many judgements on people I knew back then, I have just represssed them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:14:54 (EST)
From: Way Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Two communities were getting together for a whole day. After morning meditation, brunch was served: pancakes, either blueberry or strawberry. I insisted on blueberry even after the premie handing out plates gave me strawberry and told me to surrender. The line did not go forward until I got blueberry. Alas, to this day, I still have not yet attained complete surrender. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:42:57 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Way Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Now that's what I call Beligerence... I've always admired an individual who'll stand up for their Blueberries and settle for nothing less! Love, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:42:48 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Way Subject: EAT THE STRAWBERRY... Message: eat it, You ingrate!! Send $1000 to Maharaji today and you shall be forgiven!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 14:49:54 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: Oh wow, you're breaking my heart! What an awful story. you withdrew from the honors program because a premie said it was 'mindy'. ARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just don't think it gets any worse than that. To think that the cult served as your mentor. That's what pisses me off more than anything, is that the young idiot guru, the rich kid who never had to work a day in his life, was advising young people on what to do with their lives, namely to dedicate their lives to HIM. It's nauseating. It really is. I can see why people just don't even want to think about this whole trip. It's too fucking painful. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:40:09 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: YUK...that kind of stuff about pride and studying being 'mindy' makes me crazy, especially since you were so young...how did you ever get over that conditioning that it was bad to study and to be smart?? Just being in college was an act of beligerance when I was a premie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:00:28 (EST)
From: Premmey Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I urinated in the charnamarit bowl; I and another premie had sex in M's chair in the ashram; I ate a hamburger and a beer while waiting for darshan; I made room for doubt to enter my mind (once); I told a prospective aspirant to 'come back in about 10 years.' I sat in my hotel room during a festival in Kansas City and watched 'Saturday Night Live' instead of going to hear Maharaji give satsang (This qualifies as 'delaying in attenting satsang'); I put off until the next day what I could have done the day before; I forgot holy name (once); I slapped one of the initiators; I told Anne Johnston she was fat; I refused to sit in meditation all day while Claudia was giving birth, despite Maharaji's direction to do so. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 15:26:35 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beligerant premies unite!! Message: I wouldn't call myself belligerent. I was disrespectful of 'authority' and an outsider, even in the ashram. Of course I was in the ashram in the early '70's and out by '74. I smoked dope at Prem Nagar. Got stoned and all highed up at premie parties, even in the ashram. I liked the conviviality and fun. By the end of the '70's I realized that I really loved hanging with the people more than the satsang of Maharaji. Maharaji's satsang was mostly very boring to me. I wanted the personal stories, the love and the laughter. At programs I just hung out with the premies in the lobby or went out to talk or catch a buzz. I've always liked Leary's 'Question authority, think for yourself'. Even more I like 'Question reality, your experience counts!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 15:42:50 (EST)
From: Judas Iscariote Email: montreal.quebec@usa.net To: Everyone Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: http://www.gylanix.com/about_us_people.htm For anyone who don't recall. Micheal was the canadian director and later Guru's right hand man during he seventies and early eighties. I was told altough he has distanced himself and is privately critial, he doesn't want to talk about the old days. Maybe some skeleton has an urge to remain buried. I would be curious to know where his personal fortune came from. Probably not from his family since comparison with his hard-working succesful brother's financial achievements don't add-up. Micheal has a website with a picture and email address. I wonder if some of his friends from the old days could find-out for us. I'm not saying the guy IS or WAS a crook, but I sure know he used to be mighty close to one. His spilling the beans would help distance himself wouldn't it? Being secretive would be suspect. Here's trail to follow. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:07:12 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Judas Iscariote Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: I was told altough he has distanced himself and is privately critial, he doesn't want to talk about the old days. Do you know what he is 'critical' about, or did anyone tell you that? Probably not from his family since comparison with his hard-working succesful brother's financial achievements don't add-up. I assume you are talking about Peter Dettmers. Do you have contact with Peter? What is Peter doing now? I heard he was involved in a business that grew out of DECA. Is that true? I'm not saying the guy IS or WAS a crook, but I sure know he used to be mighty close to one. What do you mean 'close' to being a crook? I am amazed that he has simply cut Maharaji out of his resume. I'm sure his involvement with M, DLM, EV, and OGM, were the most significant involvements in his life, at least as to time and intensity. It would seem he isn't proud of his involvement, or might be embarrassed by it, and hence needs to hide it. It could be because he did things he isn't proud of, or maybe he's afraid it would make him look gullible and stupid, and that isn't good when you are trying to market yourself be an organizational consultant. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:56:40 (EST)
From: Judas Iscariote Email: None To: JW Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: First thing first. You either misread or I may have ill-expressed myself. I don't mean to say he used to be close to BEING a crook. I meant he used to be close to Maharaj ji whom, by any standard, is a swell crook. I don't want to bad-mouth Micheal (I mispelled his name. It is Dettmers) He may not deserve it. I know folks who know these folks quite well and I don't want to give too much details here for it will bounce if they understand who the source is. You have an address where you can write me. Use it if you judge it necessary. As for DECA, I beleive you refer to a shop where they make furniture for private airplanes. It was created in the old days as an outfit for Maharaj ji's private use. How a devotional project ended-up under some dudes name, remains to be found. I know I have my suspicions. M... P... and A... used to be partners. It was sold to some bigger outfit about 3 years ago. I gather P... and A... became employees while Micheal split. I understand Micheal would muffle his involvement with some cult in his resumé. I would do the same. I know he ain't a devotee no more but has the reputation of being quiet about the whole thing. I remember he always was secretive anyways. I was told his ex-wife (they split around the time he sold his share of the company) is much more vocal about her criticism. Her name is Mary. She lives in mid-Florida. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:32:49 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Judas Iscariote Subject: Notes From Dettmers Resume Message: Michael Dettmers, co-founder and president of the company, is a seasoned professional... with more than 25 years of international experience as a leader, entrepreneur, consultant, educator, coach, writer, and speaker... In 1988 he co-founded Dettmers Industries Inc., a manufacturer of seating products for the corporate aviation industry. During his tenure as President through 1995... By incorporating team-based compensation... improved quality and profitability while simultaneously mproving the standard of living of all of its employees... This sounds like an outgrowth of Deca, which was the company set up to rennovate the Boeing 707 for Guru Maharaj Ji between about 1979 and 1981 or 1982. I know that as the plane got near being finished, there was an attempt to get DECA to take work from other sources, particularly making airline seats, in order to make money, since so much money had been sunk into Deca. Premies were encouraged to 'do service' by going there and doing work for free, and at least until 1983, a large number of the workers were ashram residents who were paid nothing. Others, who had families, were paid small salaries. I wonder if Dettmers' founding of this company, in his own name, was based on having its start with what was essentially slave labor? How much did he benefit from both the slave labor and all the donations premies made for the plane. Plus, where did Dettmers get the capital to start this business, when he had been the Lord's right hand man until at least 1982? Did he get it from M, or was there no need for capital because the company was running based on the slave labor and the thousands or premies who donated millions of dollars for the plane project that got and kept DECA running? Other companies do not have these advantages. And he takes great credit for 'improving the standard of living of the employees,' but that wouldn't have been hard to do, it would just mean they started getting paid. As the Managing Director of a Swiss-based foundation from 1973 to 1982, he organized educational programs and events in more than 25 countries. He also managed its world-wide business operations including travel services, event management, health food services, and pubblications and video productions generating revenues in excess of 100 million dollars in 1982. Well, this has to be Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital, first as National Director in Canada, and then DLM in Denver and then the Office of Guru Maharaj Ji in Miami Beach, which he was running when I left Miami at the end of 1980. I think he kind of overstates his 'management' of all the services, which were only performed around festivals, by the way, and not as some kind of ongoing operations. SHIP handled publications and videos, Travel Lite did the travel services, etc. I doubt Dettmers had much direct involvement. But the fact that he is so misleading in what this activity actually was, and the fact that he discloses the 100 million dollar figure, which I assume M would rather not be disclosed, seems to indicate that he doesn't want to be associated with Maharaji, but still needs to plug a big hole in his resume. So we have this 'creative' entry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:49:04 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: Dettmers Resume Message: I am not stating any of the following as fact since I am going by what I have seen posted here in the last few weeks. The guy's money seems linked to M's. Whatever the reason, wasn't he originally an ashram premie who developed his own bznses directly from M's? So, even if he hates M, he wouldn't want to bite the hand that made him rich (or makes him rich). That kind of resume writing is fair enough play. I wouldn't say it has holes in it. The people would be free to ask what he had been doing and he probably has a line ready for them. If he had his own offshoot bzns since '88, he looks pretty good. Being able to claim that he 'improved conditions' is pretty comical, since we're talking about slave labor being upgraded. It sounds like some prospective employers might like to know some of the things posted on this site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:05:49 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: JW Subject: DECA Message: Was DECA Miami based...if so..please see my thread below on Star Enterprises (Miami based Jet interior fiiting co. ) which a rich guy I know bought it from a Mr Singh... Why does not Mary ( MD's wife) come here and say somthing? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:40:27 (EST)
From: Will James Email: None To: Stevei Subject: DECA Message: I don't know. Has anyone ever asked her? I would be glad to but'd rather remain anonymous and listen my trusting friends spill the secrets. I visited the airplane furniture shop a few years back. I know it wasn't in Miami but rather near West Palm Beach. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:59:37 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Stevei Subject: DECA Message: Your friend might want to know about the history of the company he bought. The workers left after it was sold I presume? It was mostly the left over deca premies who were still stuck working in rawats cult effort. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:25:55 (EST)
From: Judas Iscariote Email: montreal.quebec@usa.net To: Judas Iscariote Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: Through email, I just sent the following message to Micheal. Thanks for pointing it to me, I had no read Micheal's resumé yet. I wonder if his business partner is one of us as well. If Micheal doesn't answer, it won't be because he did not get my message. On the other hand, let's not get too vicious here. Some of us know, when used properly, the web is powerful enough to kill a business. Let's try to remember Micheal could be helpful and isn't the fox wer're hounding for. Dear Micheal. Ex-premies have a site of their own. In it is a discussion group called the FORUM. On it is a discussion about the legitimacy of your past business involvement with DECA and the Swiss-based foundation you refer to in your resumé. I thought I'd point it to you in case you thought it'd affect your present business. I suggest you get involved in the conversation for your silence on the matter would only enhance suspicion towards you. Judas Iscariote http://www.ex-premie.org/forum3/forum3.cgi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:09:11 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Judas Iscariote Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: I sent Michael an e-mail about a month ago via his webstie and he didn't respond. I asked him if he was still a follower of M, why he didn't mention it on his resume and other general questions. I understand Jim sent him one as well, and I don't think he responded to that one either. I have no interest in hurting Dettmers in any way. And I haven't suggested there is anything wrong with his resume. I rather raised questions about what isn't said on it. I assume it's technically correct and if I was in business and had become an ex-premie I wouldn't mention the former Lord of the Universe in my advertising either. Seriously, I went through a period in my own career when I didn't want to emphasize that period of my life either. Fortunately, I was employed through the majority of those years and didn't have too many gaps. But then Dettmers isn't just 'not saying' things either. He is openly touting his involvement with M as a business accomplishment, without mentioning who he really worked for. I don't know enough about his involvement in the aircraft seat business, but I have to tell you, it is a sore point with me when businesses (like Rainbow Groceries and Premmark, the Miami construction company, and maybe the aircraft stuff as well) which got their start by people working for nothing or very low wages as 'service' to the Perfect Master and possibily with premie donations to the Lord, ended up making certain premies rich. I think that stinks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:38:25 (EST)
From: Judas Iscariote Email: None To: JW Subject: Micheal Detmer Message: My personal position is this: For the simple reason he once collaborated with a world-class scam, Micheal owes me some information. I don't really care at this point he ran away with illigitimate wealth. It may not have been moral or legal, but right now, I'm busy zooming-onto the big crook. One little piece of information from him will keep me off his back forever as long as the information provided could be used to get closer to the fraudulent boy. None would cause a regrettable situation. He knows that much by now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 18:49:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Judas Iscariote Subject: Micheal Dettmers Message: Go for it Judas! Information is power as they say. Maharaji has kept his scam going for as long as he has mostly by keeping the truth about his operations secret. Good for you. For the simple reason he once collaborated with a world-class scam, Micheal owes me some information. Does information involve you personally, or do you mean information in general? None would cause a regrettable situation. Do you have some dirt on him that you are threatening to disclose if he stonewalls you? What do you mean that his silence would cause a 'regrettable situation?' No need to get specific if you don't want to, I just wondered what you mean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 20:29:30 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: JW Subject: Are you sure he is an EX? Message: Are we really sure that Dettmers is an EX member of the Cult? Certainly, with more and more consolidation of the organization away from the previous largesse there is less and less need for captains and lieutenants. While I'm not sure, I could have sworn I saw someone very much like him a few years ago at Long Beach. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:03:28 (EST)
From: outing ex's Email: None To: all Subject: this whole thread Message: This whole thread is interesting and makes me very uncomfortable. I am not sure what is right and wrong here but I get the 'uh oh' feeling about it. I am just not sure I am comfortable with the idea of embarrassing PAMs to make them talk. Now Jim's Linda Gross thread was fine, as she is still acting as Rawat's agent. The David Smith conversation I was fine with as I think that is just a bit of DLM history that needs telling. I never knew this Mr. Clean guy. But if he is teetering on being an ex than is it fair to 'out' him? On the otherhand the resume REALLY begs for exploration. Why bring his ex wife into it? I guess I am just not sure about the effects of critisicms of Rawat, if said to the wrong people, becoming fair game for the board. It seems to me that would do a lot to foster the conspiracy of silence around the ex lord of the universe. I am not sure how to feel about this whole thread. Does anyone else feel sort of ucky about it? On the other hand, it is interesting this concept of Rawat helping PAM ex's financially. He sure has a lot to gain by doing that. If they make their way in the world because of a dirty money golden handshake that certainly is a motivation not to speak up about what they saw during their tenures at his feet. Think about the conflict this guy would feel if he truly wants to be a REAL ex. Anyway, those are my thoughts, as disjointed as they may be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:05:47 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: outing ex's Subject: my post above nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:15:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: outing ex's Subject: this whole thread Message: I think the whole point is to bring as much information as possible out into the light of day. That's really all it is. I have no idea who 'Judas' is and whether he has any way to get Dettmers to do anything one way or the other. I have seen no evidence that he does. I doubt Mr. Dettmers or his business would be harmed if it were disclosed that he was once a devotee of Maharaji, or even that he still is. Most people couldn't care less about that stuff. It's only of interest to ex-premies, premies, and maybe people who are considering getting involved. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:41:28 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: outing ex's Subject: this whole thread Message: I am not sure how to feel about this whole thread. Does anyone else feel sort of ucky about it? If this guy is an ex why is he bragging to prospective clients about pulling in an excess of 100 million dollars for this 'Swiss based foundation'? I would think as an ex he would be ashamed of that knowing where much of it went to and how it was acquired. What does he tell these prospects when they ask him about it? No, I don't feel 'ucky', just curious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 01:11:10 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: I Have No Idea Message: Judas says he is an ex. I don't know. I was just asking Judas what he was intending to do and what he knows. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 02:25:51 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: boundaries Message: It's pretty simple. If someone made a bunch of money from Rawatt, it seems like it becomes our business (ALTHO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS LEGALLY CORRECT). Likewise, if anyone's silence is in some way bought, it would seem more appropriate to probe into what the fuck is going on with them. I personally hold bigtime PAM's as responsible as anyone except Rawatt and see them as being absolutely wrong not to speak out. In some cases, it would probably destroy M's morale, by itself and possibly just blow the old lizard out of the water. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 04:49:52 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Public Persons Message: While I only play a lawyer on my very successful television series, I suspect that anyone with any kind of title or office in any of Maharaji's organizations might fall into the category of a Public Person where the bar of proving libel or slander is higher than private persons. In the case of Michael Dettmers the distinction between a Public Person and a Private Person would need to be established. And the term Public Person might apply to just about any one that appears on stage with Maharaji or even anyone Maharaji repeatedly refers to by name while speaking publicly. Such people have the option of not appearing on stage or asking Maharaji to refrain from referring to them by name in his discourses. Their repeated and continued lack of refusal or rebuff acts as a form of consent. I don't advocate hurting or humiliating innocent people. Nor do I know whether Mr. Dettmers is guilty or innocent of any improprieties or any illegal activities. However, I do believe that through Mr. Dettmers' visible and high level activities in Divine Light Mission and/or Elan Vital he has entered into the realm of Public Persons like it or not. Furthermore, Mr. Dettmers' claims on his public website invite scrutiny and inquiry. Maharaji, Elan Vital, and Mr. Dettmers always have the full opportunity to respond and refute any allegation that is made here or at the House of Drek. Certainly, the most damaging allegation is that his company, Dettmers Inc., which he most likely profited from, may have been founded on the backs of premies working under unsafe conditions and working with little or no remuneration. While there is nothing illegal when people volunteer their time, it might be reprehensible when someone personally profits from such efforts since most of the volunteers probably would not have volunteered to make Michael Dettmers a wealthy man. And there are other premie businesses, as well, where a few individuals profited handsomely through the efforts of misguided slaves. Maharaji and Mr. Dettmers' failure to publicly respond is neither a confirmation nor a denial, but their silence is damning. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 07:27:09 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Big Whigs of the Past Message: I've wondered like many of you why the familiar names from the past do not post. Question: Did M give the full time instructors a check when he let them all go in the early 80's? How much was that check for? And did they have to sign something to collect that check? Often companies will make you sign an agreement that may include not speaking out in public or divulging organizational secrets before handing over your check. He may have them over a barrel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 16:41:04 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Lawyers in the house Subject: Legal Question Message: As Zac has pointed out, sometimes a golden watch-type check is attached to a Non-Disclosure Agreement -- NDA (Secrecy contract). A legal question: Note: I am not speculating that anything has gone on in these issues that has been or is illegal. This is just a question: In U.S. law (or Swiss), does a NDA become null and void if it is attempting to conceil a criminal act? Does it also become not relevant if information is being gleened at a civil deposition or trial? Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 17:56:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Legal Question Message: In U.S. law (or Swiss), does a NDA become null and void if it is attempting to conceil a criminal act? Under the laws of all the US states that I'm aware of, a contract is void if it's entered into for an unlawful purpose. Does it also become not relevant if information is being gleened at a civil deposition or trial? I'm not exactly sure what this means. Do you mean if someone is asked questions under oath in a civil trial and it would violate the non-disclosure agreement, that they would have to answer anyway? I think the answer is that if the court directs the person to answer they have to, and that would be a defense in any breach of contract claim brought against them. But depositions can also be kept under court seal and remain secret. You would just have to get the court to order that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 08:28:34 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: all Subject: Dettmers Message: When I read M. Dettmers' website, I thought he was still an active pwik. And that his firm was a link in M's economical empire. If he really is an ex, then there is the suspicion that his starting money came from M, or at least was earned by M's slave labour. That is not acceptable, either. Michael, If you read this, the best way to free yourself from suspicion is to speak out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 09:15:02 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Public Persons Message: While I only play a lawyer on my UNsuccessful TV series, I feel that where there's money Watch Your Ass, regardless of the legality of the situation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 12:52:58 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Runamok Subject: M Dettmers**** CASH COW Message: M D is an astute Business Minded person..he stuck around M like a bee near the honey pot...milking off the excess fat and getting these poor unpaid Premies to break their backs on his jet plane fitting company...They break their backs for a dime..and he gets an award for The Best Organisational Management Initiative..Organising the workforce in small cells and motivating them...that is his story to the outside world...The insiders know that the Premies were slaved off to make a few million bucks for M Dettmers.. Is he an Ex..no way...he was never really a premie anyway..he was in it for the green bucks...and he is a clever and astute guy.. Will he reveal all here...No way..He will never come and spill his heart out...maybe still making few bucks from M and the Premies...why spoil a good cash cow? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 23, 1999 at 19:20:22 (EST)
From: Judas Iscariote Email: None To: JW Subject: Micheal Dettmers Message: Why should I reveal you everything? Use your brains and imagination. Read above. Higher. Top post. That's it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 10:30:28 (EST)
From: SorryAnon Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Jonathan Cainer on TV! Message: Jonathan Cainer (one of the four presenters of the bland censorship-prone enjoyinglife.org website), was today on UK television. The program was called 'Through the Keyhole', and consists of this guy looking at the inside of some famous person's house and a panel of celebrities have to guess from the contents whose house it is. Anyway, the house was Jonathan's! Strangely, no pictures of M were visible, and when he was interviewed he omitted to mention the most important thing in his life. I guess I'm a bit sad to admit to watching daytime TV! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:48:37 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SorryAnon Subject: Jonathan Cainer on TV! Message: Strangely, no pictures of M were visible, and when he was interviewed he omitted to mention the most important thing in his life. Isn't it amazing how premies keep their light under a bushel these days? No one talks about the most perfect and important thing in their lives anymore. It's like they are embarrassed. Look at Cainer; look at Dettmers; look at the miserable 'propogation statistics,' at least everywhere but India. It really is dead. I had the unexpected experience of running into two premies yesterday while I was walking my dog in my neighborhood. (Actually I think only one of them is really still a premie.) I had lived in the ashram with both of them. They had just come from a memorial service for yet another premie who I recalled from 15 years ago. They weren't put off by me; they didn't seem to have any idea that I had been saying unflattering things about their master on the internet. I didn't mention the website. Anyhow, I asked about this premie who died and other ashram premies and I asked about why M closed the ashrams, and one said it was because the ashrams were unrelatable and made it difficult for propogation and so M closed them becaused he's 'pragmatic.' I mentioned two things in response. First, propogation hasn't gone anywhere since they were closed so I guess it didn't work. (They agreed). Second, how could Maharaji scare the shit out of us in the ashram meetings about leaving the ashrams if they were insignificant enough for him to just close them because they were 'unrelatable?' And if they were so important at one time, how could they just become unimportant overnight? What about the people who sacrificed so much to be there, but really didn't need to be there? Didn't M have something to answer about this, and why didn't the premies demand accountability? They didn't have much to say about this. It seems they didn't know any more that I did, even though they were around for the official explanations. I also suggested that if M was really interested in getting rid of obstacles to propogation, he could start with himself. His lavish lifestyle, conspicuous consumption, and obvious blatant materialism are much more of a detriment to propogation than the ashrams ever were. They just smiled. (Remember, I said this nicely.) They also mentioned that one of ashram sisters I knew, who was one of the most 'inspiring' premies in the community back in the early 80s, is now a Buddhist. You know, they seemed so embarrassed about what they are involved in. I actually felt sorry for them. They are really nice people. They just have this HUGE blindspot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 13:03:37 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: JW Subject: light under the bushell Message: 'They weren't put off by me; they didn't seem to have any idea that I had been saying unflattering things about their master on the internet. I didn't mention the website.' i guess you also have been hiding your own light under the bushell... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 15:05:33 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Orlando Subject: light under the bushell Message: Orlando, don't you think that JW was being polite? Would you be supportive of JW if he had started badmouthing M and talking about this site? I think not. What kind of person would meet someone after a long period of time and start right in on their beliefs, not matter how silly they find them? Be honest, Orlando; when you aren't here defending M, are you out doing propogation? Do you tell everyone you meet about 'this wonderful experience inside?' To quote M, 'Shout it on the streets. Why be shy?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:45:00 (EST)
From: beel Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: John cainer the liar Message: On his website he claimed to have scibbled some notes of rawats talk in nepal. He lied because he didn't want to make it public that he tape recorded against the rules. The rules for OTHERS, not for him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 15:33:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Oscar Nominations Message: Okay guys, tonight is the Academy Awards -- also known as the 'gay superbowl' in these parts. I thought we should have our own awards and so feel free to vote for you favorites and please make your own nominations in these and other categories: Best Performance By Rawatt in a Leading Role: 1. The Lord of the Universe (1971-1982) 2. The Humanitarian Leader (1976) 3. Guru, Who Is Greater than God (1970-1985) 4. The Incarnation of God (1972-1980) 5. The Master (1985- ) 6. Meditation Teacher (1990 - ) Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role: 1. Mahatma Guru Charanand (for pretending to be a holy man and by just making things up that made M sound divine) 2. Mahatma Fakiranand (for his role as Matthew Silver Hammer in 'Pat Halley Must Die' and in 'Mr. Fakir: The Escape') 3. David Smith (in 'I Am A Sadistic Robot for God') 4. Michael Dettmers (in 'That Was Then, This Is Now -- I was The Right Hand of God, or Maybe Just Head of A Swiss Foundation') 5. Arthur Brigham (for his role as 'Mahatma Pompousassanand' in 'The Initiation.') 6. Ira Woods (in'I Not Only LOOK Like a Maniac, I Act Like One.') 7. Jagdeo and Padarthanad (tie) (in 'The Art of Sexual Assault.') Best Performance by An Actress In a Supporting Role: 1. Joan Apter (in 'My Mind is So Evil I Wish His Plane Would Blow Up') 2. Monica Lews (for her roles in in 'The Invisible Mistress' and 'Where's Marolyn') 3. Anne Johnston (in 'Cleaning The Divine Jockey Shorts' (documentary) 4. Linda Gross (in 'Lawyer for God, but I Don't Know Anything') 5. Dayalata Rawatt (in 'Songs for my (Godly) Father') Best Costume Design 1. Maharaji's hat that looks like a Christmas tree 2. The Mala outfit with the pearls that do not hide the titties 3. The Krishna outfit (red) complete with crown 4. The silk Krishna outfit (white) complete with crown, flute and red velvet cape 5. The Philadelphia Fat Naked Dancing outfit Best Song: 1. Rock Me Maharaj Ji and Roll Me Tonight (with sexual overtones) 2. The Lord of the Universe 3. Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji, Who is the Artist of Creation? 4. Please, Please Please, Teach Me Devotion (and Beat Me too) 5. Dance, Dance, Dance (Rich Neel -- with a special award for putting more words on a single note than thought possible) 6. All Night Long (Dance Number by that short initiator from Michigan who now calls M a fraud) Art Direction 1. The Swan Motiff at Millennium, including the faucets in M's bedroom 2. That ugly green logo for Hans Jayanti on JM's site 3. Maharaji.org's website, including the swirls 4. Enjoyinglife.org website (Am I Blue?) 5. The throne at Millenium that looked like an ad for the Association of Natural Gas producers Best Picture 1. Some of the younger, really fat pictures, with special award to SHIP for air-brusing M's zits from his face 2. The 8x10 of Maharaji's feet on a silk pillow 3. The 'greased back' hair look of the early 70s 4. The long hair look of the late 70s 5. Satguru, Your Face Is Like The Sun picture Lifetime Acheivement Award 1. Bal Baghwan Ji as Sat Pal, I am god too! 2. Mata Ji, in 'My Son Is A Wicked Playboy' 3. Marolyn in 'What Did I Ever See In this Guy?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 17:08:11 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: very amusing (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 17:14:29 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: JW Subject: The instant winner is... Message: JW for this incredible post. The Greatest Post Ever Told! Roger's House of Drek Best of the Forum Only Me, Us, and Them will repeatedly rate this one anything less than 5 Maharajis (Full Enlightenment). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 19:54:01 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Roger Drek Subject: I hate to be a Judas but Message: I think that post about the $10,000,000 find by me, us, them or whoever it is, is one of the funniest posts I've read. Very clever and refreshingly satirical. Good to hear the Mickey taken out of us on this forum for a change. So whoever wrote that post, you have a vote from me and please, please write some more of the same. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 00:55:11 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: The instant winner is... Message: I'm glad you are doing this Drekman. Your post about dettmers was very good and actually I wanted to respond to your questions and will. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 01:17:05 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: drek@oz.net To: bb Subject: Dettmers - (change topic) Message: bb, Thanks. It was a real kick when I stumbled on his site and read his stuff. IMO, with some admiration and envy, he's a total scammer which is what big business and big bucks really is. Basically, making people believe you got more than you do. Kinda like poker. I had been sitting on the story and took the easy way out by just posing questions instead of getting detailed background, which may or may not be possible under the circumstances. Please do respond with what you know about Dettmers. I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag in the event that he would take down his site ahead of the publication. You can either post your responses here or email me at the above and I will add a comments section or whatever. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 01:37:45 (EST)
From: beel Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Dettmers - (change topic) Message: Would you consider also snaging prem rawat's poetry from his website? My printer is down and I wanted to get some of those before he changed a couple of them. I think a couple of them are worth sending to a couple people I know. They would be tough swallowing for some that still are in the old 'he is still the lord you know' crowd. You dont have to post em, but if it is not to hard to archive them for a short while, consider it. I have a f-15 of a computer here courtesy of my wife, but I don't know how to do anything but type. I could probably grab it off his site with this computer but the genius kid is off at college and the rest of us are stumblers. sorry to ask Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 14:12:18 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: beel Subject: Mr. Howard Beel, I presume Message: Mr. Beel: Like you, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore. Unfortunately, my Security Coordinator At Roger's Emergency Demand (SCARED) has put all of Drek, Inc. on DEFCON 4 alert after the unfortunate incident the other day when I received a package from FEDEX. Thinking that it was a gift from a grateful reader I ended up with a snout full of anthrax. I've done some bad shit, but I'll probably never do that again. Luckily for me old Doc Benway was standing by with remedy on hand and injected me with God's own medicine which put me out for two days and they did an entire Keith Richard's blood exchange. The cool thing is that now I can play the guitar. I just hope that Keith is ok. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 09:36:56 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Mr.Clean..that was funny!(nt) Message: oh heck, if you read this did you get the pick from a bottle of Mr. Clean? BTW...that is simply the best on tile floors.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 19:52:48 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: JW Subject: Oscar Nominations Message: 1,2,1,3,1,1,4,1,..... I Love The Sat Pal thing...woow way to much for me tonight thanks JW.peace.david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 00:06:23 (EST)
From: Oscar! Email: None To: JW Subject: JW deserves me! Message: I want him to hold my golden body! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 09:38:14 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: another gggreat post by JW(nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 10:19:06 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: LOL LOL, Great JW Message: A good laugh for a monday morning.... THANKS Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:02:15 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: JW Subject: Perfect, JW! Message: It made my day...what a laugh. I wish I could write stuff like that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 16:40:17 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: JW Subject: Les Oscars 99 Message: Fab, just fab. And funny, very funny. Anyway, JW, you win the Oscar for best post writing, that's for sure ! Congrat ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:17:33 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: HALIP Subject: I Accept the OSCAR on .... Message: behalf of JW. He wished he could be here, but he wanted to thank all the little gurus for making his success possible. - Mike says, as he tucks the oscar under his coat, runs out of the forum and catches a cab to the foundary.... Where they quickly melt the oscar down, so Mike can have his very own golden-faucet!!!!!! (maniacal laughter can be heard in the background.... mine, mine all mine) :-) Ok, I went away for awhile, but now I'm back.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 17:49:25 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Oscar Nominations Message: 'I am a Sadistic Robot for God'--god, where do you come up with this stuff--this is great, encore encore!! You know, when I read this satirical stuff it all just seems so absurd--it IS absurd...that we all could have been taken in by all this stuff. JW, this is hilarious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 23:16:24 (EST)
From: george Email: None To: Everyone Subject: maharaji obsession Message: You people are completely obsessed with this guru. Have any of you heard of moving on. All of these stories seem to come from years ago. Don't give it so much power. Get a life!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 23:25:34 (EST)
From: And On Anand Ji Email: None To: george Subject: (wrt) maharaji obsession Message: You've given me a lot to think about. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 03:12:34 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: george Subject: maharaji obsession Message: You are right in what you say, to some extent. But it isn't quite as it seems. In my own case, I left the whole trip behind way back in 1983 and never wanted any more to do with it. But now that I've found these guys on the net and discovered that Maharaji is still running his scam, I do feel a compulsion to help some other people to get out of the trip and also to help prevent Maharaji spreading his lies again. You are right in one thing - you do have to get a life and move on and leave it behind. Just because people write here though, doesn't mean they haven't done that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 06:28:44 (EST)
From: Becalmed Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Mr. Move On is back Message: Come on, admit it. You come on Forum about once a month and say the same, move on, get a life thing. Certainly, we cannot claim the amount of suffering that the Holacaust survivors feel. But, I'm reasonably certain that they are scarred for life. Would you tell them the same thing? What about Viet Nam vets? What about women that have been raped? etc., etc., etc. You need to understand what a healthy process of healing is before you give us your cheap little platitudes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 06:39:45 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: george Subject: maharaji obsession Message: Hi george, What does 'Get a life' mean? I thought everyone got one automatically when they were squeezed out by mum. Am I missing something here? Antonionio Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:40:37 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: george Subject: georges misperceptions Message: In case you didn't notice, a lot of people have been helped by the efforts here. And as a result of people's efforts, a lot of infl about the past is now available to help those who are now approached by the 'lord'. They can make a more informed decision before accepting the millenium savior. This is responsible actions. Not obsessions by stalled fence sitters. This place IS moving on. This place has a wide range of posters and topics. Very good spot for evolving. Your broad brush painting of this site is just flat out wrong. We are not confused by your smears. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:49:33 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: george is stuck! Message: george is a confused human that has a false guru as lord and saviour and he thinks that kissing another mans feet is the best thing to do! He thinks that prem rawat is the ultimate ruler and has a crown to prove it. georrge cant post his views honestly and publically because he is embarrased to have his real beliefs made public. He cannot make a solid case for his view of life. george cannot stand the light of day of this forum and so he claims those that stand in the light of day are 'obsessed' and he refuses to come stand here and show what he is made of. sad george cannot free himself from his programmed beliefs and is actually asking for help in the way some kids do by acting out. comon george, stick your toe in the water. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 13:35:51 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: george Subject: cult ignorance Message: 'The events which transpired five thousand years ago; five years ago or five minutes ago, have determined what will happen five minutes from now; five years from now or five thousand years from now. All history is a current event.' - Dr John Henrik Clake - Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 05:03:20 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: george Subject: to George the Parrot Message: I wonder where you got the phrase 'get a life!' from? There again, I suppose M does all the thinking for you, so it is obvious. Perhaps M could patent a magnetic cut-and-paste kit, containing his party-line words and phrases so that the you premies can stick sentences on your fridges. (sorry M, got there before you, my patent on this one is pending) :) George, try thinking for yourself before posting here, it will do you some good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:31:06 (EST)
From: Becalmed Email: None To: george Subject: your maharaji obsession Message: George, I visited all the premie sites last night and you know, that stuff is obsession by any definition. And, honestly, it's a bunch of boring lightweight tripe. At least on the ex-premie site there is some personal honesty, some intelligence, some joy and anger, and some wit and wisdom. The whole cult around Maharaji is based on obsession. Finally, you're reading comprehension and ability to analyze is deficient in that you do not see that what is being said here is not all about the past and many people only recently escaped from the cult only recently. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 21:46:38 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: george Subject: maharaji's obsession Message: You know George, BM said fairly recently speaking at a US function 'I know I've gotcha.' shit eating grin on his face, meaning he has our hearts or souls or whatever. Well George, maybe he does, but the people on the X page are gonna go kicking and screaming the whole way. So George and every other PWK that comes in here with get a life. We can't! Your Guru is too powerful. We cannot seem to break his spell! We are bound together Now and Forever! The premies, the X premies and the Guru. I don't think some of you are listening at the satsang or you wouldn't come in with this foolishness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 12:27:41 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Zac Subject: *** Best of the Forum**** Message: Zac, You're right! We are are bound together Now and Forever. And now your post is Forever at Roger's House of Drek. Obsession! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999 at 00:54:46 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: george Subject: Are you George Legere? Message: Thanks for the big tax receipt. I'd rather have the cash back. I hope the books are okeedokee au Montreal! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 25, 1999 at 16:46:15 (EST)
From: Ginette Sauvé Email: None To: george Subject: Salut old acadian twit Message: I always wondered how sex was with the nevrotic skeleton? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |