Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 45 | |
From: Apr 16, 1999 |
To: May 3, 1999 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:38:31 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: The thread below about Bobby's birthday reminded me that I spent my 21st birthday in Brighton ashram. The event was totally ignored by all the other premies. Other people have nice memories of their coming of age. I guess I didn't come of age in that mind numbing cult. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:18:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JHB Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Dear JHB, I wonder when that was, your 21st birthday. This is how different my experience was...of course I wasn't in an ashram but a premie house, could that have made that much difference? There were 15 days at the end of May, beginning of June and almost everyday was someone in our group's birthday and we would have a big party. Of course I am glad I didn't experience a lot of the shit that a lot of premies did but I am really sorry that it happened all the time and that it happened to you. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:39:12 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: It was 1974. A long, long time ago:-) John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:49:35 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: ... Not to mention how difficult it was to bake a cake without eggs! I think Dettmers & DECA Aviation Enterprises snagged our cake recipes to use the resulting glop as an industrial strength glue to hold together the 707. In fact, I think he patented the stuff! Wonder if that French Chef would want the recipe? Happy Birthday to all who missed a few in the 'Lila Years'. Love, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:41:26 (EDT)
From: bobby Email: None To: Mary M Subject: re: eggs Message: In 1974, when I was in the ashram in Philadelphia in the main line house, our treasurer took us for a weekend vacation at his family's house at the Jersey Shore. It was a real thrill to spend time swimming. There were a bunch of snacks and I went for the cookies. mmmmm....cookies. I had the package in my hand when suddenly Brad reached over and grabbed the package to read the ingredients. 'Uh, oh, there's eggs in here!' No more cookies for anyone. All the other packages were inspected for any trace of meat, fish or egg. 'These crackers are made with lard!' I was pissed. Big deal. A couple of eggs in a box of cookies. I wanted my cookies. A couple of my ashram friends would always be going out for hamburgers and shit on Divine Sales. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:02:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mary M Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Dear Mary, I forgot about no eggs! I was the house mother at a farm and was quite the cook if I do say so myself. :) Everyone said it was like living at a resturant. I use to make cakes with powedered egg substitue and had excellent results with that. Of course not good for breakfast!!! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 18:29:10 (EDT)
From: Fred Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Reading this forum has brought back to me so many memories of the 70s and 80s. I think that my best memories of tne ashram were the kinds of food that could be created from nothing. Alan R. in L.A., making a _feast_ from scraps in the kitchen! Oh yeah, scrambled eggs = tofu with turmeric. So, I'm just coming to terms with 10 years with m, (73 to 83) and 16 years wondering what the hell happened to 10 years of my youth... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 21:00:36 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Fred Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Dear Fred, Hey I think you are new! Welcome. I wonder if you were in an ashram? 'If you can make it here you can make it anywhere...' I hope you get to shed some of that confusion/anger/hurt you just let time bury. It is good to get it out. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 13:57:01 (EDT)
From: Fred Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Robyn, Yes, I'm 'new'. I've been reading this forum for about a year now and just about everything I read sparks some new memory from my years as a premie. Most ideas expressed here really ring true because I NEVER felt a 'relationship' with maharaji at all, (I wasn't an important premie..) but the knowledge techniques were and still are helpful. I lived in an ashram in L.A. from '80 to '83. I'll probably write a journey soon just to get some old feelings out in the open. I feel like any relationship I have with god is happening all the time inside me and it's always new. It has nothing to do with any other person at all. Boy, I sure wish I'd known that in the 70s. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 09:24:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Fred Subject: Birthdays in the ashram Message: Dear Fred, 'Boy, I sure wish I'd known that in the 70s.' Yeah, but just think, a lot of people die never having realized that 'god' is inside. I believe the same in that I see the whole thing more as the life force in all things is what connects us. Glad you've been around for a year and know the deal here. It can get hostile I guess, I stay away from that for the most part but there is also great support and interesting discussions. Have fun. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:25:02 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Hi Folks--been away. Please fill me in if anything significant has happened such as--GURU LOSES AN ADDITIONAL 50% OF HIS FLOCK AS A RESULT OF EX-PREMIE.ORG. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:41:10 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Hi Gail, Where you been? I almost posted where is Gail? Wondering if you'd been abducted by reprogrammers. If you haven't been reading there are lots of new posters premie and ex so the forum is working! Later Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:56:22 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Zac Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Yeah, I was wondering just two days ago where you were, too. No, it's been pretty quiet here. Almost boring! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:33:01 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: barney Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Its been quasi interesting. But-- Drek has a Fabulous auction (THE preferred jacket lapel adornment for the coming Millenium celebrations is up for bid) and and the Chef Thread below is kind of a scream. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT)
From: chr Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: I seem to only get time to look in here infrequently, so ditto to Gail's message above. BTW what happenened to the great April expose promised re the rumours about M's affairs? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:53:59 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Glad you're back Gail! We'll talk later. In the meantime, I' amazed at some of the bullshit I can remember. To wit my 'Get Smart Text Mart' thread. It won't change your life...but...you DID ask if 'anything exciting happen?' Then again, maybe I'm the only one who really cares, so its exciting, but for me only. Ya know what I mean. Nice to see ya posting again:) Nimmie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 22:54:05 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Nim Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Hey, Nim, you bet I care about Amtext! Don't stop. Yes, when we were involved we didn't want to know. But, premies like to brag about how important they are and how much M needs them. And it's interesting to see the details come back now. Oh yes, my premie friends, we really do live only in the past here, don't we? Nah, we're trying to shine some light into the darkness caused by the eclipse when FatBoy passed in front of the sun. Where did the best years of my life go? Looking for an angry fix in the cow pied pasture in the swamps of Kissimmee. Gail, anything exciting happen? To be honest, YES! It's been quite intense. Mary M. (maybe new to you) is helping unravel the mysteries of the corporate shell game where Maharaji is running a world wide scam. Maybe we can get your donations back. See Michael Dettmers and the Swiss Foundation for some of the early details. We need to compile all of Mary M.'s posts somehow to show the extent of Maharaji's evil empire. Also, you can catch up on some of the funnier posts at Roger's Best of the Forum. And we've had some real dangerous premie kooks posting. And, I'm feeling that there is gonna be a whole lot more, too. No violent threats here, just a feeling that something is gonna break loose soon. Come on, Maharaji! We know you're out there. What do you say other than your lame website? Or have you already been here as one of those premie kooks with your belly full of cognac or fine wine? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:56:28 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Anything exciting happen? Message: Hi Gail, Surely Roger jests! I'm really just trying to locate my dear grandmother Nellie's watch. I was coerced into throwing it into one of those white paint buckets in London - circa 1973! I've pretty much concluded that the watch was either in the suitcase of watches & jewelry Maharaji got busted with in India or it's in a warehouse guarded by Maharaji's security goons. I bet they wear those wrap around skinny shades now with reflective lenses. Come to think of it, they're probably are the origin of this Trench Coat Mafia trend. Very dangerous goonies. In the process of looking for Nellie's watch, or information thereof, I've found Helicopters, gliders,Divine Residences, French Chefs, a Partridge in a Pear Tree (Ha Ha I didn't find the partridges YET) natural food (Prem Mark) acquisitions, Deltek, Dettmer Enterprises, Dettmers Consulting Firm (with a name that sounds like a hemorrhoidal or vaginal itch gel - Glygocol- whatever I just can't get that company's name) Amtext, Text Mart, SEVA, Execucorp, Anacapa View Estates ..... My family re-union is in July and I must do my best to get the details on Nellie's watch. In the meantime I'll just keep poking around the nooks and crannies of Rawats 'Nouveau Riche' world and as I wade thru the muck I'll keep the X/3 Forum posted! Looking forward to your posts, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:11:29 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: What a beautiful premie I am! Message: Until the Drexter found the Foss and Larkin paper down below, it hadn't occurred to me so scour the University's Sociological indexes. Turned up a few interesting abstracts (unfortunately the library doesn't stock most of the journals involved, but I could order copies of the full papers). Anyway, here are a couple of independent pieces of research arriving at a similar conclusion regarding premie narcissism: TI: Cult Groups and the Narcissistic Personality: The Offer to Heal Defects in the Self AU: Kriegman,-Daniel; Solomon,-Leonard AUI: Kriegman,-Daniel; Solomon,-Leonard IN: 144A Mount Auburn St, Cambridge MA 02138 SO: International-Journal-of-Group-Psychotherapy; 1985, 35, 2, Apr, 239-261. JN: International-Journal-of-Group-Psychotherapy CO: IJGPAO DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article LA: English CP: United-States PY: 1985 AB: H. Kohut's self-psychology (The Analysis of Self, New York: International Us Press, 1971) is applied toward an understanding of the self-functions that membership in a religious cult provides for the narcissistic personality (NP). Based on clinical tests & interviews comparing followers of the Guru Mahara Ji, leader of the Divine Light Mission, & a control group, it is proposed that a psychosocial fit exists between the appeal of the cult's structure & process, & the needs of the NP. The cult offers reparative & substitutive functions to the follower who seeks an idealized self object to stabilize a defective sense of self. The special relationship of the follower to the guru bears a close resemblance to the 'idealizing transference' that arises between certain NP patients & their group therapists. The therapeutic use & misuse of the 'idealizing transference' in group therapy is explored & suggestions are made for its appropriate clinical management. 1 Table, 23 References. HA DE: *Cults- (D189600); *Personality-Traits (D619800); *Church-Membership (D127800); *Narcissism- (D547800) IP: narcissistic personality, religious cult group membership; clinical tests/interviews; Divine Light Mission followers SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535) CC: 1535; 1500 AN: 86Q3916 UD: 199812 And the following is a summary of a book chapter: Wolfgang Kuner - New Religious Movements and Mental Health - presents data obtained from administration of the Minnesota Multiphase Personality Inventory to German members (total N = 246 men & 271 women) of the Unification Church, the Children of God, the Ananda Marga, & student controls. No clinical evidence of a general mental disturbance was found in Ss belonging to any of the three religious movements; however, the members displayed similar personalities with somewhat narcissistic traits. (from: TI: OF GODS AND MEN: NEW RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS IN THE WEST AU: Barker,-Eileen-[Ed] AUI: Barker,-Eileen-[Ed] CT: Lofland,-John; Skonovd,-Norman; Snow,-David-A.; Machalek,-Richard; Bourg,-Carroll-J.; Richardson,-James-T.; Walker,-Andrew; Hill,-Samuel-S.; Schwartz,-Paul-Anthony; McBride,-James; Burfoot,-Jean; Ahern,-Geoffrey; Shupe,-Anson-D.,-Jr.; Hardin,-Gert-L.; Bromley,-David-G.; Beckford,-James-A.; Bird,-Frederick; Reimer,-William; King,-Christine-E.; Kuner,-Wolfgang; Tipton,-Steven-M.; Rochford,-E.-Burke,-Jr.; Derks,-Frans; van-der-Lans,-Jan-M. IN: London School Economics & Political Science, Aldwych WC2A 2AE England PB: xiii+347pp, CI, Macon, GA: Mercer University Press. IB: 0865540950 DT: bka Book-Abstract LA: English PY: 1984) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:47:31 (EDT)
From: gregg Email: binduesque@yahoo.com To: Nigel Subject: What a beautiful premie I am! Message: So involvement w/ a cult provides 'reparative and substitutive functions' and helps to 'stabilize a defective sense of self.' Interesting. Thanks for digging that up, Nigel. Does that sound entirely negative? It is if you stay with the cult for decades, of course. But, looking at it from the perspective of one who was only sucked in for a few years...perhaps those years were therapeutic in some sense. In the sense of: my self-image was flawed and misguided and fucked up etc, and in my involvement with DLM I responded to something beyond self and society...which has turned out to be, for me, a genuine involvement with Mystery -- although this time, spirituality means engagement with the world, not turning away from reality -- which is what cults demand. The 'meditation' propagated by Rawat was essentially spiritual onanism. Not that onanism is bad now and then, but as a spiritual path... From my short time in this Forum, I gather an anti-guru, anti spirituality spirit prevails. But are there any other Pollyannas out there who don't regret their Earth shoe days? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:39:50 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: gregg Subject: What a beautiful premie I am! Message: That is sooo funny Gregg. I was just going to mention how 'reparative and substitutive functions' had been so important to me in my cult experience... but they beat me to it... by 10 years. That's social scientists for ya! Well, hey Nigel, some of these guys might enjoy an email referring them to this site and the wealth of information and resources here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:23:11 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: None To: Runamok Subject: I'm just the messenger Message: Nah, I don't think so. In many respects these Freudians are the most cultish of the lot. I just found it quite amusing really - and probably with a grain of truth in there once you get past the bollock-speak. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:10:25 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: nigel Subject: I'm just the messenger Message: Yeah, but like you said (I think 'twas you), if they knew there was still activity, they'd want to study it!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 03:47:09 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Runamok Subject: I'm just the messenger Message: The trouble is, the people doing the study of finances seemed to have got all their data from what was already public knowledge and by asking cult members directly. I mean, imagine asking a premie today: 'so tell me about Amtext and where all the money goes...' You'd probably need an undercover investigion by a journalist or the fraud squad to get any useful facts out. Even armed with stuff from this site, the sociologists findings would only end up in an obscure journal that nobody actually reads. Another part of the paper I forgot to mention was the way that DLM placed all the blame for the Millennium disaster - and the promises to bring Knowledge to every person on the planet - firmly at the feet of cult members 'no longer part of the organisation'. So some things never change. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Nigel Subject: and a couple more... Message: TI: How People Recognize Charisma: The Case of Darshan in Radhasoami and Divine Light Mission AU: DuPertuis,-Lucy AUI: DuPertuis,-Lucy IN: U Guam, Agana 96910 SO: Sociological-Analysis; 1986, 44, 2, summer, 111-124. JN: Sociological-Analysis CO: SCLAAV DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article LA: English CP: United-States PY: 1986 AB: Examined is the recognition of charisma as an active, conscious social process involving the confirmation of belief through noncognitive methods of altering perception. Illustrated by the Sant Mat/Radhasoami/Divine Light Mission case, the Hindu concept & ritual of darshan is examined. Devotees use meditative means to recognize charisma in the guru, considered as the formless Absolute, as himself, & as a presence generated within the community of followers. The aim on all three levels is ecstatic merging of a separate sense of self with the Absolute. It is conjectured that once Westerners learned this, they no longer felt need of the guru. Further research on social components of mystical practices is recommended. 50 References. HA DE: *Charisma- (D119400); *Hinduism- (D359400); *Mysticism- (D546600) IP: darshan concept/ritual, Hinduism, guru's charisma, devotees' recognition SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535); social psychology; cognitive/interpretive sociologies, symbolic interactionism, & ethnomethodology (0373) CC: 1535; 1500; 0373; 0300 AN: 87R2379 UD: 199812 2 of 5 Marked in Search: #1 TI: New Religious Movements Turn to Worldly Success AU: Khalsa,-Kirpal-Singh AUI: Khalsa,-Kirpal-Singh SO: Journal-for-the-Scientific-Study-of-Religion; 1986, 25, 2, June, 233-247. JN: Journal-for-the-Scientific-Study-of-Religion IS: 0021-8294 CO: JSSRBT DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article LA: English CP: United-States PY: 1986 AB: An examination of the financial activities, ideological foundations, & goals of three new religious movements - 3HO Foundation, Divine Light Mission, & Vajradhatu. Research methods included participant observation, taped interviews (N not given), analysis of movement literature, & examinations of group financial records. Results indicate that worldly success has become a religiously significant venture for at least two of the movements. Within these groups, there is a high degree of successful entrepreneurial & professional activity. There is also organizational & ideological support from the movement's leadership to the membership to become rich. Several interpretations are offered, including historical precedent, sect-church transformation, institutionalization, a search for legitimacy, & leadership influences. Resource mobilization is argued to be the most effective theoretical approach. Accordingly, movement direction is determined by rational leadership decisions in a practical attempt to realize goals & to promote group maintenance & survival. 1 Appendix, 22 References. HA DE: *Religious-Movements (D706500); *Wealth- (D914100) IP: financial activities/ideological foundations/goals, 3HO Foundation/Divine Light Mission/Vajradhatu religious movements; participant observation, interviews, movement literature/records SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535) CC: 1535; 1500 AN: 86R0324 UD: 199812 I managed to find this second paper, and read it right through. There was comparatively little devoted to DLM, largely because at that time - the mid-eighties - EV had gone very low-key, while these other movements were conspicuously focusing on attaining material wealth through the setting-up of businesses. It did, however, document some of DLM's financial disasters in the seventies and stressed the fact that without a constant influx of new recruits to compensate for the drop-out rate and still cover spending, the movement would (and did for a while after Millenium) be unable to remain solvent. It would be interesting to read a post-Amtext update if the authors were to repeat the study. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:40:45 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: nigel Subject: and a couple more... Message: I guess there's a rich mine of material there for sociological study...I'm surprised though that all these papers exist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 00:48:14 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: katie@ex-premie.org To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! Message: Hi Bobby - I seem to recall that your birthday is April 23 or close to it - (apologies if I got the date wrong). Anyway, I hope you have a great birthday despite the rough time you're going through right now. I want to wish you good health, lots of love, and much happiness in the year to come. And many happy returns, too! Love from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:36:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! Message: Dear Bobby, Yes, Happy Birthday dear. May not be your best birthday but hope the caring you find here in your birthday thread helps to lift your spirits. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:46:50 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! Message: Happy Birthday, Bobby! I hope you have an interesting, yet peaceful, day. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:21:24 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! Message: Thanks Father Mickey! Yesterday was interesting all right, but more along the lines of the old Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times!' =:P It was a big day yesterday - Radiation followed by Chemo followed by more radiation. Then I was to get a feeding tube inserted. I've been the 'model communicator' with all this business. I always have to be sure of exactly what is going on. There's often a suprising lack of communication interdepartmentally with the hospital and that can translate down to wrong procedure or instruction. I took great pains to let everyone know the sequencing of what I needed to do that day. Everything was time critical. At 8:30 I was supposed to see my chemo doctor. No show. I had needed to talk with him cause last time I saw him he assured me that everything would be 'much easier' than the severe nausea and vomitting I experienced for protracted periods for my last chemo. I was lying there on the bed for 2 and a half hours with no show from the doc and no start to my chemo. The whole chemo infusion takes three hours and I needed to be at the next radiation at 1:15. I asked the nurse to read me what the doctor had written on my chart. I sounded to me like exactly the same procedure I had gotten the last time, only some increases in anti-nausea drugs. However, there was one addition - Compazine. Compazine is a drug from a family of drugs called phenothyazines that I have reiterated again and again to the doctors that I under no circumstance want to take. The nurse stated she would mark my instructions for no phenothyazines in red on my chart. To make a long story short, everthing fell behind and I was unable to get my feeding tube placed. If I get severely nauseated and vomit this time and can't keep any food or water down I will go into dehydration and will have to get a special liquid tube placed immediately. Sheesh. I did pretty good through all of this but lost it and started loudly declaiming the problems with the situation when the doctor told me at 4:30 that they were rescheduling the feeding tube for Monday. Twenty minutes before hand he had assured me that they would get me in. I didn't have a ride home. I had everything set up to be picked up the next day. They had to call around for an hour to get me a ride from an American Cancer Society volunteer. Today I'm doing well. Right now I should say. I have some nausea but it's not bad right now. This whole process is moment to moment. I can feel OK or even well, then shift to some pretty bad experiences. It's all pretty interesting. And peaceful. Thanks to prayer, meditation and the caring of some pretty wonderful people! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:45:09 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! Message: Hey Bobby Wishing you the best ....hope this year brings you peace..and health, keep the faith and i hope all the sickness goes away..hang in there and be strong..peace..love...david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:46:07 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I know! Message: Hi Bobby, Happy, Happy Birthday! And don't forget to make a wish! Love, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:01:15 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: Thanks Katie and Robyn, Yes, today is my birthday, along with Billy Shakespeare and Charlie Frick. On the bus to Prem Nagar, back in 1971, I discovered that Charlie and I were born on the exact same day. Anybody know Charlie? He was a writer for East Village Other, covered Maharaji when he first came to New York, and became a premie. Later he wrote for High Times. Ain't seen the man in about 15 years or so. Yes the times are rough and this whole cancer treatment process is really the greatest challenge of my life. The love, prayers, support and healing make a big difference and are much appreciated. Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:17:41 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: Happy birthday, Bobby, and get well! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:46:48 (EDT)
From: L Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: Happy Birthday and Happy New Personal Year..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:48:17 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: Hey Bobby, Wow, I sure admire the way you're keeping your doctors from lapsing in unconsciousness. It's pretty scary that they had that medication on your chart--but it's great that you caught it. You're taking good care of yourself, it sounds like to me, although the whole things sucks. May this year hold healthful times ahead. May God hold you in the palm of His/Her hand. Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:46:29 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: Yeah, one thing I keep learning again and again....never assume anything is properly communicated amongst medical personel. At certain junctures ya gotta trust the process, but first ya gotta do your best to know everything you can about what is going on. I keep copies of all my medical records, (there's a bunch of new ones I gotta access though). Interesting to see what the doctors write in their impressions. In each document there are several factual errors. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:48:10 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: All Subject: thank you everyone (nt) Message: asdf Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:05:26 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby Message: I meant to tell you it was St. Georges Day as well but I guess you know all about slaying dragons! Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:05:49 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Liz Subject: dragons for early breakfast Message: Yes! Which reminds me I got a wonderful cybercard on my birthday from a dear friend of St. George and the dragon. I've always loved that beautiful painting of St. George by Raphael, used to keep it in my book The Hero of a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. All part of a personal quest for the holy grail. Sometimes you eat the dragon and sometimes the dragon eats you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:13:17 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby! Message: Dear Bobby, I felt your pain! No - really at the time I bet it felt awful. Now you are lucky to be able to look back and hopefully laugh about it. It's my dad's birthday today too - he is 88 years old and always told me what a con-artist M was and I never believed him, of course thinking I knew something he didn't. Now I realize my dad is a wise man and I love him dearly. HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOBBY!! Did you know the people in Brighton? Glen Whittaker and co? I believe there is a head-master there who is a premie. Do you know him? Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 15:09:09 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Liz Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby! Message: Hi Liz, Pretty neat that your Dad's birthday is the 23rd too and you seem to have a great relationship with him. Say happy birthday to him for me. Yeah, I'm doing some laughing, and my treatment process is continuing. I'm in the middle of it. Got some weeks to go. This week has actually been better than other recent ones. I know I come off as 'pollyannish' sometimes here on this forum in terms of my attempts to express love and gratitude but what the hell. Kind of an awkward aspect of me. I'm someone who has an inner daemon and needs to speak personally, even if it's awkward and incomplete. Another aspect of me is very strong and I am doing what I call shamanic work with this healing process. It takes everything. My whole life is in this process and the process is happening physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. I have strong feelings, and am working on purification and feel a lot of gratitude. My main figures right now for purification are Jesus and Vajrasattva. Very personal, but full of meaning and power for me. Here's a little web page I did with their pictures yesterday. Jesus and Vajrasattva I'm on the other side of the lake from Britain. In Pennsylvania in the US, so don't know those guys. Thanks for your input Liz. Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 16:23:08 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby! Message: Glad I checked forum! Happy Birthday! I undserstand abuot having to say what you need to here. I do that too. (like I need to tell anyone that) It's always good to hear from you, tho I don't share a lot of your spirituality I have a basic core of, something.... a sense of integrity, something. And I love doing my own solitary version of paganism. Glad this week has been OK treatment wise. Love The Moon Goddess (now that's not pretentious is it) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:10:48 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby! Message: I admire your integrity Selene and your intense creativity. Your moon-goddess expressions are great! So we don't share a lot of the same spirituality? We probably share more in the substance rather than form. Our paths are unique and that's a good thing. Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 16:05:58 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby! Message: Yes we do share a lot in substance. best whisper off to the side about it.... naw who cares. I am happy to hear from you Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:57:00 (EDT)
From: kancha Email: None To: Everyone Subject: get a life!!! Message: This website is an awful and sick example of loosers that didn't make in life. So what? he is not a god, but hey he is a good business man. The world loves it, and he obviously loves it in his sly style of high living. He didn't steal or forced anybody to join in his cult. It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not. It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father. Why don't we draw the cartoon of all the ex-premies and create a forum and poke in their individual lives. He is helping in lot of ways to lot of people around the world. In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope. Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god. But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you? Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is? But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!! Ex-Premies don't waste your time if you can't live in a mansion, or have your own jet. What you're going to open a discussion that you didn't have brains to be Bill Gates or Michael Jordan....Maharaji is likewise one of them. If you don't like Nike buy Reebok. Try other hobbies than to poke someone. Do things like getlaid, masturbate, shop, sleep, meditate, read books than to write junk on somebody. Everyday is a new day and begin everyday with a new philosophy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:05:00 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: kancha Subject: Here's one Rog Message: See, sometimes I try to imitate premies. I pretend that I pretend that I'm stupid and just let it rip. But who can make up stuff this good? Not me. From the first common premie mistake reflective of a misspent youth, the misspelling of 'loser', to the garbled unmessage... well, you don't get this way overnight. I'm sure of it. Here are some of my favorite parts: It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not. It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father. But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!! My favorite, of course, must be this part: In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope. Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god. But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you? Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:08:12 (EDT)
From: Roger Ganja Drek Email: None To: Jim Subject: ***Best*** Poll Victory Message: Yes, this post is definitely a BEST. It's got it all starting with the get a life!!! followed by unsubstantiable facts and some plain old bad thinking. Imagine that little more than a year ago I was saying the exact same stuff. And now look at me! Victory is our momentarily at the House of Drek Opinion Poll where 282 respondents are clearly confused as to what Maharaji is: 6% Teacher of Meditation 49% Master 0% Humanitarian Leader 3% God Incarnate 37% Fraud 6% Don't Know Here at the Drek International Towers we have our chef cook up a big spread and we break out the champagne whenever Master falls below 50%. Unfortunately the mere posting of the results will cause the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle to demonstrate itself. Roger's House of Drek Roger's Best of the Forum Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:12:19 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: kancha Subject: You Are Kidding, Right? Message: Kancha, I hope you're kidding, that what you posted was a joke, otherwise you are one very distrubed person. Maharaji is a manipulator but you go listen to him anyway; He's not god, but it's good for the local economy if people in India believe he is; in India people need to believe in something, so it might as well be a fradulent, manipulating god; In fact, you really like being manipulated and it's your choice so what's the big deal? Like I said, for your sake, I hope what you posted is a joke. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: JW Subject: You Are Kidding, Right? Message: Well, my kind hearted buddy Barney is back in town after spending all winter doing research in the Antarctica and before I knew it he was in there responding. Yes, this one is a keeper. Read 'em and weep! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:17:47 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: kancha Subject: get real!!! Message: How long have you been into Maharaji? Where are you from? Your understanding of how Maharaji is the last hope for India and Nepal is simply fanciful thinking. That is not true in the least. Also, saying that he is helping these and other countries with his programs through tourism does not take into account how much money he ultimately is removing from these countries (probably more than what the tourists spend.) And the number of tourists that visit any country due to Maharaji is insignificant to have any real impact on the economy. This is more wishful thinking. Nor is Maharaji a good businessman unless you rank him along with the slave traders and other slave owners. Without the slaves these businessmen were nothing. And, the same is true for Maharaji. Without your money and the money and efforts of others he would have nothing. And really, I think that other people are doing all the thinking and investing for Maharaji. He has said he was God. He allowed us to call him God. Therefore, he must be. And now you say he isn't. Sounds funny to me. No, we really don't care that we don't live in mansions. That's not the issue here. The issue is how did he really get all that money and wealth. You need to educate yourself a little more before you attempt to defend him here. As long as your are nice you can ask questions and you can better understand the issues. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:18:47 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: kancha Subject: get a life!!! Message: So, Kancha... You're saying your man is kind of like a Football game? Good for the local economies? What's next the infamous Budweiser Frogs pronouncing Ma Raj eee, Ma raj eee...... Hmmm that would be a cool screen saver! Just as Maharaji and Marolyn protected their children from sexual exploitation by Mahatma Jagdeo and Raphael or a hammer bashing from their friend Fakiranand, they'll need to protect their children from this site. Not our problem. Touched a few nerves I see. In the process of your rant have you happened to discover what happened to Nellie's watch. You know the Irish. I can't go to another family re-union without proving I've look under every nook and cranny for grandma's watch;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:38:32 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: kancha Subject: More sick examples Message: If you think this web page is sick then you should see what some deranged and perverted ex-premie has put up on the net! Just point your browser to Maharaji's Homepage to see what some sick and obscene stuff some ex-premie loser has created. And if that doesn't horrify you enough then go next to The truth about Maharaji and see the depths of depravity to which this ex-premie has fallen as he spews forth his vicious lies and evil words. Truly the rantings of a madman! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:48 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: kancha Subject: get a life!!! Message: Even in the sixties and almost certainly before, the Arya Samaj were demonstrating at M's programmes in India trying to tell the innocent Hindus not to worship a living Lord. We young Westerners without the advice of the Arya Samaj fell hook, line & sinker. Then in 1999 this idiot comes along a says it's O.K. - BULLSHIT! You get a Life! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:10:01 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: kancha Subject: What are you talking about? Message: It's ones choice to manipulated or not? He's good for the economy? We know he's not god but people want to beleive he is? I have never been as baffled by anything I've ever read in my life. What the fuck are you saying kancha? I live in a goddamn mansion you idiot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:58:32 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: kancha Subject: get a life!!! Message: And lets not forget Hitler gave people the volkswagon, autobahns and white bread. Hell even Mussolini got the trains running on time so lets not here anything bad about these guys either. Maharaji LIED big time to millions of people who had the crazy idea that he could be trusted. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:21:01 (EDT)
From: Xan Email: None To: kancha Subject: get a life!!! Message: Kancha I doubt that you have the courage to come back to see how people responded to you, unless of course it Was a joke. If you are here, I have a few questions. What I want to know is since you believe in the choice to be manipulated, would there not also be a choice to read or not read anything here? Choice for you and for Maharaji's kids. Are you for or against poking someone? You recomend not poking someone, but it seems you really mean it's okay to poke ex-premies but not okay to poke M., or possibly yourself. Why isn't one of the commandments, 'Mind your own business'? I don't somehow get the connection of Bill Gates, Michael Jordan and Maharaji. You like famous, smart, rich people? What does this have to do with what M. is teaching? What in the world are you talking about? And what do you want? Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:51:34 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: kancha Subject: US is back - can't keep away! Message: This website is an awful and sick example of loosers that didn't make in life. So why do you want to be part of it all? (BTW: I made it in life just fine, thanks, and on my own terms - just as many others here have done who were once penniless gurunoids without prospects.) So what? he is not a god, but hey he is a good business man. Wrong. He is a successful businessman, just as Hitler was a successful leader of men, rather than a good one. The world loves it, Show me a single, positive character reference from outside of the EV organisation. and he obviously loves it in his sly style of high living. Righti-ho. I'll go and kiss his feet, then. He didn't steal or forced anybody to join in his cult. It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not. Hey folks, don't you just love a sly manipulator? Jim Jones anyone? Applewhite? Ok, kancha, we had free will and we chose to be deceived and manipulated by fraudster. We can also apply that free will to warn others off getting manipulated. Just as you could use your free-will to fuck off elsewhere. Everyone else is here because they enjoy the company. You are clearly not enjoying the company, and are probably not even enjoying life, yet you keep coming back incognito to share your incoherent rambles which on the one hand generate great mirth amongst forum readers, but seem to reveal some sort of inner personal distress on your part. (They make you look a bit of a looser, in fact.) Are you ok? It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father. Yeah, fancy being so mean to a sly manipulator who only tried to run a perfectly 'ornery little cult. Life just ain't fair, is it? Why don't we draw the cartoon of all the ex-premies and create a forum and poke in their individual lives. It's your choice. Go ahead - free-will and all that. If you lie about anyone, though, you'll probably get sued. Maharaji doesn't sue because this site carries no lies about him. He is helping in lot of ways to lot of people around the world. In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope. I'd say that was pretty desperate - especially since the greater part of those countries needs are for food, medicine and practical resources - not symbols (come to fleece them via darshan donations). Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god. How dare you suggest Maharaji isn't God. When did M ever say he wasn't? But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you? They're sprouting up all over the garden like the giant hogweed. Try maharaji.org or enjoyinglife.org. Better still, go and see whether they'll publish any of your philosophical witterings. Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is? Uhh? But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!! Ex-Premies don't waste your time if you can't live in a mansion, or have your own jet. What you're going to open a discussion that you didn't have brains to be Bill Gates or Michael Jordan....Maharaji is likewise one of them. If you don't like Nike buy Reebok. Try other hobbies than to poke someone. Do things like getlaid, masturbate, shop, sleep, meditate, read books than to write junk on somebody. Everyday is a new day and begin everyday with a new philosophy. You're bonkers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
From: HALIP Email: None To: kancha Subject: get a life!!! Message: You are either rather mad or this is your idea of a joke. Furthermor, your syntax is awful. Anyway, if you don't feel too well, as your post do indicate, don't despair : there are many good doctors for your kind of sickness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:21:16 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Kancha Subject: New philosophy every day Message: Everyday get a new philosophy?? Oy vey, I should hope there would be a little carry over from the day before! Gee I think today I'll try on this for my philosophy--make money and rip people off--oh boy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:01:38 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Seeker of Truth Message: I have just reread this journey and really like it. The seeker of truth was so sincere in his letter to m. The letter was so well written, honest and fair. I wrote a letter to m, knowing I probably wouldn't get a reply and this was my last straw. The last paragraph in his letter confused me a little regarding the very deep experience of bliss. I can only hope that The Seeker of Truth doesn't find the world so mundane anymore and that because of brainwashing by m it only appeared that way. Because at the moment I can't imagine ever feeling that experience again but am fairly happy to let it go so as to enjoy the other 90% of my 'mundane' time a lot more than I did when I was busy hooked on retrieving 'the bliss'and not enjoying the moment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:58:59 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: All Subject: Seeker of Truth Message: Just curious to know why this thread wasn't taken up. I'm fairly new to all this and haven't started many threads so I'd like to know why. Any ideas? Positive criticism only, please! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 19:17:40 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Liz Subject: Seeker of Truth Message: Hi Liz, I wasn't sure who you were referring to as 'Seeker of Truth' i.e. was it a thread or a journey? I seem to be having a few problems with IE5 so that the posts I've already read go back to the 'unread' color. Also, I think we were throwing some 'Pots and Pans' all over the threads and if there was a 'Seeker of Truth' letter to M I either missed it or it fell over the edge ;-o Luv, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:04:15 (EDT)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Making a link suggestion Message: Hope this is of help to some. This is how I figured out how to do it. 1. Compose a post. When it comes to placing a link, PASTE this 'compose link' into the message being written. <a href='PASTE-URL-HERE'>TYPE-NAME-OF-LINK-HERE</a> [I keep a copy of this handy - on Notepad, Wordpad, etc.] 2. Get the actual LINK you want (you might have to go to the site and there it will be on the 'Location' line). COPY it (include the http://www.name.suffix). 3. Back to your message. SELECT (drag mouse over just the words PASTE-ADDRESS-HERE in the sample compose link). Now PASTE your link (leave the '' quotations marks). 4. Now, SELECT the TYPE-NAME-OF-LINK-HERE and simply type in what you want the link to be labelled. i.e. Click Here...or...Roger's Site Can Be Found Here...etc. That's it. 5. Testing: Finish composing your post. Click 'Submit your Message' and on the next trial page you can test your link, then click 'Back' on your browser and do the final 'Submit Your Message.' Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 22:44:47 (EDT)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Brain/Katie Subject: Thanks Brain/Katie Message: Thanks for fixing that. I thought some who are still writing that they can't figure it out (making a link) might find this explanation more user friendly. The links are so crucial sometimes. Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:57:02 (EDT)
From: Paul Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Thanks for letting me join you Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:42:57 (EDT)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Paul Subject: You're most welcome Message: Hi Paul, Are you new to this forum? Have you been reading it for awhile and just starting to post? Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:45:47 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji's Domain name Message: I wonder when maharaji registered the domain name Maharaji.org? He did a rapid about face on the value of the internet. He said in 1996 that 'whatever has a steep incline' (referring to growth of the interent) 'will have a steep downturn'(paraphrasing GMJ). I don't know what he was referring to there. Television? Radio? The electric light? The automobile? My question is when did he do this about face? Was it after 1997 when he was still speaking out publicly about his negative feelings regarding the web? Or had he registered his domain name while still trying to influence premies to stay off the web? Was it for their own good? Ha ha Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:22:38 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Zac Subject: A Possible Explanation Message: Someone from Australia, I don't recall the name, posted a few months ago about an event in 1997 that might have been the event that got Maharaji to change his mind about the internet. In 1997 there was a program at Amaroo and a story appeared in a Brisbane newspaper reporting it, including talking about the fact that M's plane was worth over $20 million, and that Ross Sutton said that M wasn't part of DLM anymore, implying that all the crazy stuff he did in the 70s was just DLM's fault. The article noted that EV was nothing more than DLM with a name change, and that there was this website called 'ex-premie.org' on which ex-followers of M said that 'their lives had been shattered' by following him. [The article, under 'Kangaroo Hop' is on this website.] Anyhow, the person who posted said it was the first time most premies heard about the ex-premie website and, that M was livid that mention of it was included in the newspaper article. The poster suggested that at that point M decided that he better get an internet presence, and so he changed his mind, being the pragmatic lord that he is. Makes sense to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:53:23 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Zac Subject: Maharaji's Domain name Message: Zac, I could be wrong, but I think I heard M being negative about the net even in early 98. Several times he told a story about some guy who told him how great and important the net was in the world and M told him something to the effect of 'Get a life!' He was clearly mocking those who enjoy the net and he strengthened my feeling that the net was probably useless except for educational purposes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:39:06 (EDT)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Denise Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO Message: 24th MAY 1997 SEEMS TO BE THE CREATION DATE FOR MAHARAJI.COM and .ORG Registrant: Alpen Sun (MAHARAJI4-DOM) 5859 Kanan Road Agoura, CA 91301 US Domain Name: MAHARAJI.COM Administrative Contact: West, Leroy (LW1352) golwest@IX.NETCOM.COM 800.393.5724 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052 Billing Contact: Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM (805) 371 1817 Record last updated on 03-Nov-98. Record created on 24-May-97. Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9 NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12 NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8 Whois Search Results: maharaji.net Output from whois database: Registrant: Jossi Fresco (MAHARAJI6-DOM) 5509 N. Military Trail Boca Raton, FL 33496 US Domain Name: MAHARAJI.NET Administrative Contact: Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM (805) 371 1817 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052 Billing Contact: Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM (805) 371 1817 Record last updated on 03-Nov-98. Record created on 03-Aug-98. Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9 NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12 NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8 Whois Search Results: maharaji.org Output from whois database: Registrant: Alpen Sun (MAHARAJI5-DOM) 5859 Kanan Road Agoura, CA 91301 US Domain Name: MAHARAJI.ORG Administrative Contact: West, Leroy (LW1352) golwest@IX.NETCOM.COM 800.393.5724 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052 Billing Contact: Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM (805) 371 1817 Record last updated on 03-Nov-98. Record created on 24-May-97. Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9 NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12 NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8 Domain Name: MAHARAJI.ORG.UK Registered For: Reality Communications Domain Registered By: INS Registered on 28-Aug-1998. Record last updated on 09-Sep-1998 by hostmaster@insnet.net. Domain servers listed in order: 194.205.20.1 194.205.20.1 NS0.INSNET.NET 194.177.160.34 NS1.INSNET.NET 194.177.170.2 Whois Search Results: maharaji.co.uk Output from whois database: Domain Name: MAHARAJI.CO.UK Registered For: Reality Communications Domain Registered By: INS Registered on 28-Aug-1998. Record last updated on 09-Sep-1998 by hostmaster@insnet.net. Domain servers listed in order: 194.205.21.1 194.205.21.1 NS0.INSNET.NET 194.177.160.34 NS1.INSNET.NET 194.177.170.2 Whois Search Results: maharaji.fr Output from whois database: Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/db/dbcopyright.html Tous droits reserves par copyright. Voir http://www.nic.fr/info/whois/dbcopyright.html domain: maharaji.fr descr: ELAN VITAL descr: 39 RUE DU MONT-CENIS descr: 75018 PARIS admin-c: DB1880-RIPE tech-c: FA156 tech-c: SS1337 zone-c: NFC1-RIPE nserver: ns.sct.fr nserver: ns-backup.sct.fr mnt-by: FR-NIC-MNT source: RIPE role: NIC France Contact address: AFNIC (NIC France), c/o INRIA address: Domaine de Voluceau BP 105 address: 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX, France phone: +33 1 39 63 56 82 fax-no: +33 1 39 63 55 34 e-mail: tech@nic.fr trouble: Information: http://www.nic.fr/ trouble: Questions: mailto:nic@nic.fr admin-c: AR41 tech-c: AR41 tech-c: PL12-RIPE tech-c: JP1110-RIPE tech-c: EM634-RIPE tech-c: MS1887-RIPE tech-c: VL229-RIPE tech-c: PR1249-RIPE nic-hdl: NFC1-RIPE mnt-by: FR-NIC-MNT source: RIPE person: Dimitri Basiliou address: ELAN VITAL address: 39 RUE DU MONT-CENIS address: 75018 PARIS phone: +33 1 42190904 fax-no: +33 1 42190904 nic-hdl: DB1880-RIPE source: RIPE person: Franck Arnal address: SCT/World-Net address: 13 rue de l'Escaut address: 75019 Paris phone: +33 1 40 37 90 90 fax-no: +33 1 40 37 90 89 e-mail: Franck.Arnal@worldnet.net e-mail: admin@worldnet.net nic-hdl: FA156 source: RIPE person: Sebastien Socchard address: SCT/World-Net address: 11-13, rue de l'Escaut address: 75019 PARIS address: FRANCE phone: +33 1 40 37 90 90 fax-no: +33 1 40 37 90 89 e-mail: seb@worldnet.net e-mail: socchard@worldnet.net nic-hdl: SS1337 source: RIPE Whois Search Results: maharaji.it Output from whois database: domain: maharaji.it x400-domain: c=it; admd=0; prmd=maharaji; org: Marco Bravura admin-c: MB4944-RIPE tech-c: SL40-RIPE postmaster: AF169-RIPE zone-c: AF169-RIPE nserver: 195.62.227.3 dns.ats.it nserver: 195.62.224.30 dns2.ats.it remarks: Fully -Managed mnt-by: ATSLINK-MNT created: 19981224 changed: andfa@ats.it 19981209 source: IT-NIC person: Marco Bravura address: Giudecca 410 address: 30123 Venezia (VE) phone: +39 544 419623 fax-no: +39 544 419623 e-mail: bravura@linknet.it nic-hdl: MB4944-RIPE changed: drago@ats.it 19981209 source: IT-NIC person: Samuele Landi address: Via Benedetto Varchi, 59 address: 52100 Arezzo address: Casella Postale 297 - Arezzo phone: +39 575 985618 fax-no: +39 575 984268 e-mail: slandi@ats.it nic-hdl: SL40-RIPE changed: drago@ats.it 19990421 source: IT-NIC person: Andrea Falsini address: Via Benedetto Varchi, 59 address: 52100 Arezzo address: Casella Postale 297 - Arezzo phone: +39 575 985619 fax-no: +39 575 984268 e-mail: andfa@ats.it nic-hdl: AF169-RIPE changed: andfa@ats.it 19990421 source: IT-NICWhois Search Results: maharaji.ch domainname: maharaji.ch domaintype: A nserver: ns1.appliedtheory.com [204.168.28.9] nserver: ns2.appliedtheory.com [204.168.16.12] nserver: ns3.appliedtheory.com [207.127.101.8] ownertype: O registered: 981223 changed: 981223 applicant: Amanda Swallow org-name: PureVoice, LLC org-address: P.O. Box 1485 org-address: CA org-zipcode: 91358 org-city: Thousand Oaks org-country: United States serialno: 00124300 source: CHDOMREG adm-name: Jossi Fresco adm-address: PureVoice, LLC adm-address: P.O. Box 276342 adm-zipcode: FL 33427 adm-city: Boca Raton adm-country: United States adm-phone: +1 561 994 2383 adm-email: jossi@technologist.com bil-org: NetNames USA bil-name: Billing Administration bil-address: 430 West 14th Street, Suite 502 bil-zipcode: NY 10014 bil-city: New York bil-country: United States bil-phone: +1 212 627 4599 bil-fax: +1 212 627 5744 bil-email: billing@netnamesusa.com tec-name: AppliedTheory Communication Inc. tec-address: 125 Elwood Davis Road tec-address: NY tec-zipcode: 13212 tec-city: Syracuse tec-country: United States tec-phone: +1 315 453 2912 tec-fax: +1 315 453 3052 tec-email: hostmaster@appliedtheory.com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 17:57:38 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Stevei Subject: Thanks stevei Message: Apparently the change of mind about the web took place at that time and as far as I remember is congruent with his public remarks. So at least he wasn't saying one thing and planning another. Appreciate you getting that info stevei. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:01:44 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Stevei Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO Message: Great work Stevei! It appears he'll need to blitz now. Take Care, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:15:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Stevei Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO Message: Very interesting stuff, and good job. I have no idea where you found this information. But, I notice that May 24, 1997, is about two months after the ex-premie site got started. Do you think his change of mind had something to do with this site getting started? Of course, he SHUT DOWN the premie.org site later that year, or early the next year, if I remember correctly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:32:20 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: Domain info Message: Domain info is found at the site: 'internic.com'. You go to the site and enter a domain name as if you are interested in purchasing it. It brings up the info or tells you if it is available. I think the current price is $50 for 2 years, and you have to one or two servers to be legit. M could have dozens of names. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:41:31 (EDT)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Domain info Message: internic.com only shows up the top domain names and not the international names.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:06:20 (EDT)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Everybody Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO Message: I'm laughing my head off because soon, big M won't be able to fart, pee or pick his nose without some ex posting the details of his lurid doings... I mean, here is the info on his wedbsite, date and all, there are all the info on his house and helicopter below, the stuff on Amtext, on Dettmers, on his mistress, on the Swiss Foundation, or whatever its name... I'm VERY impressed by the work you guys have been doing... I bet he must be GREEN, that good ol' lordie-lord ! Watch out, Prem Pal, we are going to get you ! Happy (and getting happier) and living in Paris Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:24:51 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Denise Subject: Why would he 'dis' the net Message: in 1998 when had retained a domain name for a web site in May 97? I can only guess that he was to busy to notice or the premies did it or he forgot what year it was. It's nice to 'know' the facts. One neat thing about the web is that when you mentioned reading the Guru Papers a week or so ago I clicked onto Amazon.com and 3 days later it was at my house. So far it is terrific, very readable which surprised me. Later Zac Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:19:46 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Zac Subject: So the exes wouldn't take it! Message: Hi Zac, I am sure M or some premies grabbed the domain names maharaji.org and maharaji.com right after the ex-premie site went on line (in March/April 1997) so WE couldn't use those names. (Good thinking, huh?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:30:21 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Zac Subject: Maharaji's Domain name -create Message: It was created on 24-05-97, all you ever need to do to find out about a site or url is do a 'whois', the ones that are buried sometimes require a little digging. I have whois as a command on my machine if you are windows do a search and there are sites that have a whois you can run. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:29:36 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: I think I do have a serious problem reg denial and guilt! I've just discovered a very strange thing today reg something that happened a few days ago. I'll tell you the whole story. I'm working as a vet. I'm tatooing pets (when their owners ask for it) # that are given to me on some special booklets given by the official company keeping the records of all pets tatooed in France. A few days ago, I've received a phone call from someone asking me if I knew the owner of the dog with such and such ID#, because a lost dog had been found with that ID# and I was the one that had the booklet with that #. They were not 100% sure of the # because it's sometimes difficult to read the tatoos. They were saying that the company didn't have the copy of the ID certificate yet (I send them the certificate's copy when the # is tatooed, including the name, address and phone # of the owner of the tatooed pet). Of course this can happen when you've just tatooed a dog, and the dog is lost before the company gets the copy of the certificate. So I went and checked my certificates' booklets, and discovered that that precise # wasn't given out yet, I still had the virgin certificate. I also checked the copies that were not sent yet (I had one on my desk waiting to be sent, and that was not the one they were looking for). Then I answered them that I still had the original, and that # was not given out yet. Then I got a letter yesterday asking me the same question: a dog had been found with that ID#, I was the one who had the booklet with this #, and asking me again the same question. I didn't pay too much attention to that letter, still kept it, thinking there was a mistake somewhere, and that I was not responsible for this. But still I was thinking a bit about it, how strange the story was, what could have happened, etc Finally I decided today to re-check: believe it or not, I had a dog tatooed last January with this #, the booklet was NOT virgin on that #, and the certificate on my desk was precisely that one! That was a shock for me to discover this today! What I now think, is that I was unconsciously feeling so guilty (when I've received the phone call the other day) that I might have done a mistake, that I unconsciously changed what I actually saw because I was not able to accept the reality of my mistake. Is this a post-cult syndrome, is this Alzheimer, could I have other reason to do such things? Am I really sane after all? Did any of you exes experience that sort of confusing thing? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:51:43 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: You think your mind played a trick on you or you played a trick on your mind? Maybe it is a simple explanation like the first time you checked you had had too little sleep that day and weren't thinking it all through clearly, got the # wrong, etc??? I wouldn't get too freudian about this. I mean you weren't trying to cover up anything or deceive or manipulate anyone. As per post-cult syndrome, it exists, no doubt!! perhaps it manifests in the lies we tell ourselves--'I'm sooooo happy' when I'm not, that kind of thing???? Not to mention the fuzzy thinking about causalities that all us exes no doubt still have. It's good you're thinking about this! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:33:00 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Helen Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: You think your mind played a trick on you or you played a trick on your mind? Maybe it is a simple explanation like the first time you checked you had had too little sleep that day and weren't thinking it all through clearly, got the # wrong, etc??? I was perfectly clear on that day, I remember I've really carefully checked. I also know that guilt is something I've been a lot into. I wouldn't get too freudian about this. I mean you weren't trying to cover up anything or deceive or manipulate anyone. You're right. But I know that mind tricks are not happening without any good reasons. Calling this a mind's trick is not sufficient for me. Not that I'm into trying to find some explanation for everything. That was not a simple innocent mistake for me. OK, maybe it's just something stupid that happens once in a while. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:35:54 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: JM: I think leaving a cult is very stressful, very emotional and can take a lot of mental energy to sort out what is happening. Anyone who is under that kind of stress, in addition to all the other stresses involved in living our lives, can make errors. I mean every human being makes mistakes, and in times of stress we are likely to make more of them. One thing you said rings true for me. After I left the cult, I was pretty devestated, angry, and had all kinds of emotions both positive and difficult. But I did find that if I made a mistake, say in my job, I would be particularly affected by it. I think I carried over from the cult this idea that we are supposed to be perfect, or as M said, 'impeccable,' and that any mistake is a reflection of my lack of consciousness, being in my mind, and the like. It took awhile, but that gradually went away. I began to realize that I am entitled to make mistakes, that everyone does, and those stupid expectations were just cult programming, and something I didn't want in my life. They are stupid and destructive. So, like Helen said, don't make too much of something like this. You probably just made a human error. We all do it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:51:33 (EDT)
From: cp Email: mone To: JW Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: This kind of scramble is a familiar to me. Over the past few months, three other people have told me of the same thing. My own was that I was looking at the blue sky and calling it red. - figuratively speaking. I also had extensive arguements and materieal proof to support what I was saying- and I believed them. Then in one split second I saw through the virtual reality I had constructed- and could only stand with my mouth open at what I had done. But I dont know if it is all down to post cult. The other people that it happened to were just plain old people. Now I regard it as a kind of impressionistic dyslexic phenomenon. But instead of switching right and left numbers on the horizontal like when reading a telephone number- it goes the other way- Vertical. So the mental reality slips gears and superimposes over a dreamy or fantasy. The added ingredient of a bit of pressure - )responsibility/social) means that I open my mouth and Commit to it all- thereby amplifying the quorundum! Or it was those imps. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:32:48 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Thanks JW, so true Message: But I did find that if I made a mistake, say in my job, I would be particularly affected by it. I think I carried over from the cult this idea that we are supposed to be perfect, or as M said, 'impeccable,' and that any mistake is a reflection of my lack of consciousness, being in my mind, and the like. It took awhile, but that gradually went away. This little incident that happened to me is typical of my actual reaction to it. I now think I have a tendancy to react this way because of a lack of trust in myself. I did a mistake, like everybody does at times. But years of 'service' in DLM/EV and friendship/relation with 'dedicated premies' takes you to a place where you don't have much trust left in yourself anymore. M's has been mocking me so much, EV/DLM responsible have been so uncaring with me (and everybody else), I've been involved in so much useless and pointless 'big services' and stuff, that I've ended up unconsciously wondering if I still was able to do something good and meaningful myself, and having normal relationships with 'normal' people. The facts proved that I am able to work well, improve my skills and my job, that I can have good friendships and relationship, that I am able to be attentionate, loving and careful without me being a zombie going back to my 'inner' being every five minute. But when some incidents like this one (or Jim's parrots story- what a laugh) happen, I still have a tendancy to go back to this lack of trust and stressed attitude. I guess it's going to slowly disappear, like you say. I began to realize that I am entitled to make mistakes, that everyone does, and those stupid expectations were just cult programming, and something I didn't want in my life. They are stupid and destructive. You really have to be out of the cult behaviour and habits to start realizing how much it's been destructive. In the beginning you're merely disturbed and wondering what happened to you and how you're going to recover from this mess. Then you slowly start to realize how stupid it was when you're back to normal feelings and behaviours. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:59:26 (EDT)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Thanks JM, so true Message: Jean-Michel, I saw a number of parts in your last post that I was going to quote, until I found that the whole thing rang true for me. -------- Hey, I gotta good one for you. True story: Christmas, 1996. I decide to buy my Sister and Brother-in-law a coffee grinder and bags of gourmet coffee. They love it. Christmas, 1997. I decide to buy my Sister and Brother-in-law a coffee grinder and bags of gourmet coffee. They now know I have periodic 'mush-for-brains.' Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:17:41 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: J-M Subject: Male Menopause Message: Dear J-M, It's your age - nothing to do with being an ex-premie ( in my 50 year old humble opinion). My 50 plus next door neighbour gave her daughter the same wedding present twice. Once for her shower and once for her wedding. She felt silly too but like you she'll get over it when she forgets all about it! Although I must say I was a lot more 'jumblely' before I decided to leave m. I was feeling very nervous all the time and thought it was menopause - now I've left I think it was me being affected by m in a very negative way. Now I feel a lot clearer. 'I can see clearly now the rain has come - I can see obstacles in my way. It's gonna be a bright, bright sun shiney day!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:20:46 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: J-M Subject: Male Menopause Message: Whoops, I've done it again - 'come' should be 'gone' menopause or what? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 09:05:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Liz Subject: I can see clearly now Liz Message: Dear Liz, Hey, did you put those lyrics at the bottom of your post because it was a song you use to sing as a premie? 'I can see clearly now the rain has come - I can see obstacles in my way. It's gonna be a bright, bright sun shiney day!' I remember singing that song or the band singing that song in Miami! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:54:02 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I can see clearly now Liz Message: It's a strange thing, Robyn, ironic even, that I see clearer now, love dearer, feel nearer to G.O.D. day by day. All those tempting songs about those delicious feelings are nothing compared to the real experience of happiness. I'm experiencing more clarity from stopping practicing. I do things I could never do before because I was brain-washed into believing that all I had to do was practice. It got to the point I just couldn't anymore. Eat you heart out! Yes, I did sing 'I can see clearer now at programmes.' It was true at the time but as I've mentioned before like many other premies, when I returned home I just clouded over. Now I'm realizing home is where the heart is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:28:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Post-cult syndrome? Message: Dear JM, I know you are a recent ex and I am not but I live day to day wondering if something I remember is real or a dream that seems real and I forget things all the time. I just chalk it up to genes, my dad is the same way. Maybe it is pre-Alzheimers and it is unnerving sometimes but I do not think, in my case that it has anything to do with the cult! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:01:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: That happened to me too! Message: JM, I can't believe this. The exact same thing happened to me not more than a month ago. Only in this case it was parrots. I was tatooing parrots for the central registry here. You'd be surprised how few parrots are properly tatooed. In Canada that's a government responsibility and, after years of whining, lobbying and petitioning like crazy, we've finally got the proper funding to do the job right. Anyway, when the weather warmed up in March (Victoria -- balmiest part of Canada!)we took our operation outside on one particularly warm Sunday afternoon. Parrots bleed more than most people'd ever expect and when they're not bleeding they're making parrot poo poo's all over the place, especially when they're nervous and tired which is exactly how they get when you've been chasing them around for an hour or so with a burning tatoo needle. You have to wait for them to get really tired and then snag them with a parrot cord. By that time, though, they've usually bled and poohed all over and we're not given all that much money for clean-up. Best to take it outside. So that's what we did. We're outside doing the parrots when my supervisor points out that the one he's just wrestled off its perch is already marked. I go over and sure enough, there it is, the mark of the beast, 860000545 (we exhausted the 666 series back in the seventies). 'But that's impossible,' I said. 'We've never seen this parrot before. Someone else must have done this one but that doesn't work because we're the only one with the contract and, besides, who else would know what numbers we were into at that time.' 'Look, Jim' said my supervisor 'maybe you did indeed do this one last week and just don't remember.' I hit him in the mouth. First time I've done anything like that in such a long time but, well, I didn't know what else to say. Plus, I was starting to get nervous and tired myself, never mind the fucking parrots. Besides they wouldn't shut up -- the parrots -- and that was bugging me too. Anyway, I hit him. Just then my mother showed up. 'Jim, honey, why are you doing that parrot again, dear?' 'What?' I asked, already feeling that sick feeling one gets when one's in one's mind and it isn't good. 'What do you mean? I've never seen this bird.' For some reason I was getting so angry I almost hit her too. But I didn't; I just shoved her back a bit. Not hard, this is my mother I'm talking about. 'No, silly, you did! This morning. Don't you remember?' I stopped my advance and gave myself a good think. Yes, I realized, I had done this parrot! I did him just before we broke for lunch (but after we'd started our second bottle.) So, I had done him, the tattoo was mine. If anyone needs any further proof that this Knowledge isn't all it's cracked up to be, there it is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:31:55 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Jim Subject: Too Funny! Message: Your best post ever! Drek Hall of Fame with Jean-Micheals original Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:40 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Zac Subject: You bet! ***Best*** Message: Best of the Forum Actually, I have seen where scientists can tag bees with barcodes and read them on the fly. Now, if I can just find that sperm that got away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 23:13:30 (EDT)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Crying with laughter (nt) Message: a;lskdj Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 04:45:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: No need to massacre them Message: Hi Jim, Next time, catch your parrots by the neck, and hold them tight under your left arm whilst you tattoo them with your right hand. They might pee and poo on your pants, but who cares. Thanks for the laugh. I've called all the persons involved in my little story. The guy who's found the dog, the company keeping the records of ID#, they don't give a shit, they don't care! As for the owner of the dog I've tattooed: she's disappeared. Like one of them said, only those who've never done anything never did any mistake. So, who cares? Beside this, my girlfriend she did a big big big boo boo at her job yesterday. He company's lost a lot of money because of her mistake, and they don't care that much either, cause she's one of their best employees... At least I have no boss to be pissed with me anymore. And if the gooroo is extremely pissed, I love it. I don't doubt he is, specially these days when all his companies' names are unveiled one by one. I don't know how he's going to hide now. Very likely staying in India and Nepal... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:50:45 (EDT)
From: Your Mum Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, Honey Message: I've told you a number of times, dear, you need to get your eyes checked. We don't have parrots in Canada. They live in places like South America and Africa, remember? Those were pigeons you were chasing. You know, rats with wings. This is just like that last time when you spent three months on that snipe hunt. You are so trusting, dear. First it was the cult, and then these practical jokes you fall for. By the way, did you get your vacinations? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:45:52 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: My serious answer Message: JM, Sometimes I worry about my brain too. I can at times do some really dumb things and, when I do, I sometimes wonder if my mind, which I was in the habit of trying to slip out of gear for a minimum of an hour in the morning and an hour at night, doesn't still throw its own clutch out of habit. I don't know the answer but it's a good, somewhat scary, question. Thanks for reminding me. (??) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:38:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Mind working in automatic Message: Is this actually the problem? Could very well be so. This is very scary, maybe one of the cause of the dreams I used to have for a while, like fear of becoming insane, making the most stupid things I don't want to do, making the worst possible mistakes, etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:28 (EDT)
From: Your Mum Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, Honey Message: Jim honey, it's not the meditation, it's all the drugs. Remember to get your vaccinations, dear. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:59:38 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Dog IDs Message: The big thing here in the States is to get a small computer chip placed under your dog's skin (completely painless by the way and takes about 15 seconds to inplant) and then if the dog gets lost they can be 'scanned' just like at the Supermarket and the SPCA or the Animal Control people can tell who owns the dog, even if the dog tags have been lost. My dog has one, and the only thing I've noticed is that he sets off the burglar alarm when he gets into my car.:) By the way, JM, can you still take your dog into a restaurant in France? And do people still abandon their dogs all over Paris in August when everybody goes on vacation? I imagine those people don't get their dogs tatooed! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:11:13 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Where are m's dogs? Message: The big thing here in the States is to get a small computer chip placed under your dog's skin (completely painless by the way and takes about 15 seconds to inplant) and then if the dog gets lost they can be 'scanned' just like at the Supermarket and the SPCA or the Animal Control people can tell who owns the dog, even if the dog tags have been lost. My dog has one, and the only thing I've noticed is that he sets off the burglar alarm when he gets into my car.:) They're going to start testing the system in France, I've just received today an invitation for this. By the way, JM, can you still take your dog into a restaurant in France? Some restaurants allow them, some don't, like for hotels. You have to check when you make your reservation. And do people still abandon their dogs all over Paris in August when everybody goes on vacation? I imagine those people don't get their dogs tatooed! Some do, too many of them, it's a big thing every year, but not 1000s of them. Many people buy pets because their children want them as gifts, and finally discover they're a problem. M used to buy plenty of them for his kids, and give them away to premies in Malibu. I hope he got them tattooed. I can't imagine the whole scenario. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:41:45 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: katie@ex-premie.org To: Jean-Michel Subject: post-post-cult syndrome Message: Hi Jean-Michel - I had a similar experience two years ago and I'd been out of the cult for 20 years. Here's what happened: I found a Maharaji video lying on one of the desks at the place where I worked. I hadn't thought about or heard about Maharaji in YEARS - I didn't even know he was still around - and it was so incongruous (didn't fit the context) that I just picked it up and put it back down, and blanked the whole episode from my mind like it never happened. It was only when I went home that night that I realized what I'd actually seen - boy did that freak me out! Turns out one of the people I worked with was a premie who was bringing in introductory videos for people to watch. I do think I did this because the reality was so weird that I just couldn't put the pieces together. But my mind was still processing it on an unconscious level, so I did remember what happened later. It sounds like your mind did the same thing. Take care, Katie P.S. I was somewhat concerned by what you said about guilt. Do you really mean guilt, or rather feelings of inadequacy like JW described? I can relate to both of those feelings very much, by the way! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:45:09 (EDT)
From: Parrot Email: None To: Jim Subject: tattooed mind Message: I remember what you did to me, and honey, you're the best. It happens to me too. Once I was flying along and I forgot where I was going and when I looked down... well you think your lapses scare you!! Maybe we're just getting old. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:22:25 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Katie Subject: post-post-cult syndrome Message: JM, If I were you, I would only worry about it if it happens a lot. Or perhaps if it happens any time where you it seriously interferes with your safety or someone elses (including a pet, I suppose). Otherwise, forget about your forget abouts. It's normal enough kind of stuff even if it's kind of hot pink instead of gray. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 11:58:21 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: Everyone Subject: No Golden Toilets ?????? Message: This just in....This just in...This just in.... Could it be true that the Tax Assessor couldn't find the bathrooms at the divine residence of Guru Maharaji owned by SEVA Corporation of America dba Anacapa View Estates, Malibu? Mon dieu! Does the lard use an outhouse? County: LOS ANGELES Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-011-051 Assessed Value (Land): $244,992 Assesed Value (Buildings): $2,639,870 Assessed Value (Total): $2,884,862 Improvement: 91% Lot Size: A477.00 Year Built: 1958 Year Renovated: 1968 Number of Bathrooms: 0 Number of Half Baths: 0 Building/Living Area: 4,857 Tract: 8004.02 Land Use: SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE Map ID: 111-D4 Sales Amount: $23,000 Transfer Date: 05-31-1978 Tax Rate Area: 8635 Comments: Assessment Year 1996 Comments: County Use - 0100 Comments: Absentee Owner Lot Area: 20,778,120 Type of Sale: FULL CONSIDERATION Property Address: 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA 90265 Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264 Name: SEVA CORPORATION OF AMERICA & ]A Name Type: Absentee Owner Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:01:16 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Rahab Subject: Would helipad suffice? Message: Hi Rahab, Do you think he uses his helipad for certain bodily functions? I know the corporation took care of the permits for him! THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 1997 a. Application No. 4-97-55 (Seva dba Anacapa View Estates, Malibu) Application of Seva Corporation of America dba Anacapa View Estates for two lot line adjustments of 7 lots and one re-division of 4 acres, under common ownership, at 5865 South Rambla Del Orto, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS] Helipad: 98031119-0*Malibu City of *Pacific Ocean *Anacapa View Estates CUP 98-002 *Ara Mihranian *(310)456-2489 * 4/20/98 Continue use of exist residential helipad at 5865 S Rambla del Oro, Malibu vic PCH Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:18:55 (EDT)
From: Roger Taxman Drek Email: None To: Rahab Subject: Devil is in the details Message: Ah, but this 1996 assessment appears to be on the old house before the Richter scale 9 knockdown rebuild. So, if the value of the old house was $2,639,870 (91% rebuilt in 1968) then our estimates of $10+ million on the new house is probably pretty good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:48:04 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: Roger Taxman Drek Subject: Devil is in the details Message: Aye! Sheva's been busy: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991. County: LOS ANGELES Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-006-039 Assessed Value (Land): $1,018,640 Assessed Value (Total): $1,018,640 Land Use: RESIDENTIAL LOT Transfer Date: 03-26-1991 Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264 Name: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA Name Type: Owner SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991. SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991. SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 12-29-1995. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:49:21 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: Nim Subject: Devil is in the details Message: State ID Number: 97058824-0000 Type: CORPORATION Date Started 06- -1997 Name: TEXT MART Address: 2436 E CHAPMAN AVE FULLERTON FULLERTON CA 92631 Tax Area and Code: FULLERTON-30013 Title: Owner Name: AMTEXT INC SIC Codes: STATIONERY AND BOOK STORES Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:32 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rahab Subject: GEEZ Message: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991. County: LOS ANGELES Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-006-039 Assessed Value (Land): $1,018,640 Assessed Value (Total): $1,018,640 Land Use: RESIDENTIAL LOT Transfer Date: 03-26-1991 Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264 Name: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA Name Type: Owner I bet this is the 'new' residence, the plans of which are on this website. I understand that it was built in 1992, so that makes sense. Amazing that Seva apparently owns 'the Residence' and M doesn't own it in his own name. I'm not surprised. I bet he just owns virtually all the stock in SEVA, along with Marolyn and his kids (maybe). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:21:42 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: Roger Taxman Drek Subject: Lord of the Flies Message: Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1660203 Registration Mark(N-Num): N-103PR Last Registration Activ.: 08-20-1997 Latest Registration Cert: 02-29-1984 Aircraft Manufacturer: BURKHART GROB Aircraft Model and Ser.: G 103 TWIN II Year: 1984 Maximum Take-Off Weight: 700 POUNDS Number of Seats: 2 Engine Manufacturer: NONE Model Name: NONE FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN Registration Type: CORPORATION Aircraft Type: GLIDER Airworthiness: STANDARD Engine Type: NO ENGINE Name: SEVA CORP Address: PO BOX 1437 THOUSAND OAKS CA 91358 Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1181522 Registration Mark(N-Num): N-10HA Last Registration Activ.: 07-16-1997 Latest Registration Cert: 12-28-1982 Aircraft Manufacturer: BELL Aircraft Model and Ser.: 206L Maximum Take-Off Weight: 3000 POUNDS Average Cruising Speed: 112 M.P.H. Number of Seats: 5 FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN Registration Type: CORPORATION Aircraft Type: ROTOCRAFT Airworthiness: STANDARD Name: SEVA CORPORATION Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:27:32 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: Roger Subject: Seva/Execucorp etal Message: Last Updated: 04-20-1999 (Updated on a WEEKLY basis) Filed: SECRETARY OF STATE State ID Number: 00858497 |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:28:14 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rahab Subject: Seva/Execucorp etal Message: Okay, so SEVA Corp owns 'the residence' as well as 'the helicopter' which apparently M lands on his own helipad as much as Malibu will let him. And my old friend Mary Holle is the PRESIDENT of SEVA. Mary Holle from Des Moines, Iowa. Who would have thought it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:26:25 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rahab Subject: Lord of the Flies Message: Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1181522 Registration Mark(N-Num): N-10HA Last Registration Activ.: 07-16-1997 Latest Registration Cert: 12-28-1982 Aircraft Manufacturer: BELL Aircraft Model and Ser.: 206L Maximum Take-Off Weight: 3000 POUNDS Average Cruising Speed: 112 M.P.H. Number of Seats: 5 FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN Registration Type: CORPORATION Aircraft Type: ROTOCRAFT Airworthiness: STANDARD Name: SEVA CORPORATION Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264 Am I correct that this is a helicopter? So SEVA owns this too, as well as a 'glider.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:35:08 (EDT)
From: Roger Lindberg Drek Email: None To: JW Subject: it's for propagation, come on! Message: Maharaji needs that glider for stealth propagation efforts under the cover of darkness. You are such loosers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:47:55 (EDT)
From: Rocket Woman Email: None To: Roger Lindberg Drek Subject: A Blimp! Message: Com'n Roger Lindberg, Everybody knows he's got a bimbo or two he uses for propagation. Oops... did I say bimbo? I meant BLIMP! A BLIMP for the Master Blimp. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:36:32 (EDT)
From: Rahab Email: None To: JW Subject: Twirly Bird Message: Correct JW This is the Twirly Bird owned by SEVA for Mary to fly to Des Moines... I presume. Rahab Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:14 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rahab Subject: Twirly Bird Message: Rehab: Thanks for all this great information. Please keep it coming. Just a note: I received knowledge in the same knowledge session as Mary Holle and then I lived in a premie house with her right after. Then, we lived in the same ashram in San Antonio (aka COLL). Later, when I was at IHQ she was one of premies who did 'communications' with all the communities. I think at one point she split the ashram with one of the brothers in Miami, but I'm not sure what happened after that. I always liked Mary, she's a nice person. I think it's sad, however, that she is still involved to the extent she is. Maybe in her exaulted position, she's having a good time, who knows? Mary has a brother David who was a DLM accountant for awhile. I saw that he had posted on enjoyinglife and lives someplace in New York. David wasn't quite as friendly as her sister, if I recall. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:55:30 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Not sure getting the point Message: According to what I've recently read in these various posts reg ownership of m's stuff, and various companies managing some businesses linked to DLM/EV, it looks like a dozen of pams are owning the whole stuff. What's also very likely is that the guys are straw men, otherwise m & his family would own the whole stuff themselves. Or do they own the shares themselves? So, what would happen if IRS sticks it's nose in all these businesses? I guess these pams will have a hard time explaining how and why they got 'gifts' that were directed to m to own these properties themselves. I this legal (not speaking of ethics) in the US? What is Mr Rawat actually hiding to need all these decoys? Isn't it extremely suspicious, and going to attract IRS's curiosity more than if m himself would have owned the whole thing? What is the logic behind this? I assume these guys are having meeting after meeting and endless phone calls with Alvaro and Virgil (poor guy, I really sympathize with you - don't forget giving me a call next time you're in Paris, we'll go out and check some good wine if you don't call me the minute before you leave). How did they ever believe that none of this would become public one day or the other? Do they believe in divine protection? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:56:05 (EDT)
From: Irish Nanny Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Corporate Elves Message: Hi JM, Well, to be sure, there's probably some scramblin goin on in LOTU Land. Don't ye trouble y'erself about their efforts. The Dettmers, and Sevas have their own little elves to sweat the details: NUM: F98000003524 ST:DE ACTIVE/FOREIGN PROF FLD: 06/22/1998 LAST: NAME CHANGE AMENDMENT FLD: 07/02/1998 FEI#: APPLIED FOR NAME : DETTMERS INDUSTRIES, INC. NH: 1 PRINCIPAL: 100 WILSHIRE BLVD., SUITE 940 ADDRESS SANTA MONICA, CA 90401 RA NAME : C T CORPORATION SYSTEM RA ADDR : 1200 SOUTH PINE ISLAND ROAD PLANTATION, FL 33324 US Corporation Elves And for all ye former DECA slaves ye'll be glad to know that y'er former slave master is a tad kinder to his employees in the nineties: Michael's Team Approach Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:44:51 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Not sure getting the point Message: it looks like a dozen of pams are owning the whole stuff....Or do they own the shares themselves? JM, from what we have seen, it isn't clear who actually owns the property. They appeared to be owned by corporations, with PAMS being the officers of the corporations, but we don't know who actually owns the stock in those corporations. I would be M and his immediate family owns them. I think the corporate structures just hide ownership and also might help protect his assets from liability. Is this legal (not speaking of ethics) in the US? We don't know enough to know. There is nothing illegal for someon to set up a corporation to hold property and then just own all the shares. It does, hide ownership from the general public, however. What is the logic behind this? I think to hide ownership, to possibly try to protect the assets from being exposed if M got sued, and maybe for tax reasons. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:13:24 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: So lame! Message: How do they think that kind of lame 'protection' would resist serious investigation? I guess they don't have ANY protection anymore, if they ever had one! Right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 21:55:02 (EDT)
From: Peter Howie Email: petebear@ozemail.com.au To: Everyone Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious Message: Still chewing on a book I finished called 'Searching for memory' by Daniel l. Schacter - Basic Books 1996. Amongst other issues raised in the book is the aspect of what he terms implicit memory. As he goes on to build his case with well documented research, much of which is his as he is one of the leading researchers in the field, I began to find a useful, let us say mundane way of appreciating 'spirit and unconscious'. In essence he points to parts of the brain where there is a type of memory that is not conscious in the normal manner (other examples are the memory of how to ride a bike, drive a car etc many of which are non-conscious)which he call implicit memory. As I kept reading I was both relieved (as somewhat of an scientist type (by training), or 'show me' type as a sceptic) and horrified (the agnostic aspects of me - or perhaps the childhood longing for larger ans more purposeful answers aspect of me) that he was building a quite decent picture of many of the feelings, sensations, effects, affects that occur in 'spiritual' groups. I recomment it to other - it is highly readible with great examples of real people - a bit like Oliver Saks. This is not a book about 'mind' - it is really following the biological, physical and looking at memory and how we view the world. Any recommendations along a similar vein out there? Cheer Peter Howie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 09:31:24 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious Message: Sounds like a great book, if it's like Oliver Sachs I'm sure it's very readable too--not too highly technical??? There are many books suggested here on the forum, I'm sure you'll get quite a list going if you hang out here a bit. Cheers Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:36:15 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious Message: As I kept reading I was both relieved (as somewhat of an scientist type (by training), or 'show me' type as a sceptic) and horrified (the agnostic aspects of me - or perhaps the childhood longing for larger ans more purposeful answers aspect of me) that he was building a quite decent picture of many of the feelings, sensations, effects, affects that occur in 'spiritual' groups. Hi Peter. Without going into too much detail, could you elaborate on how he does this? I've done a fair amount of reading on brain study myself but I haven't come across much that I would say builds a picture of what occurs in spiritual groups. I'm assuming 'implicit' memory (a term I'm not familiar with) would be behind things we do without conscious effort like walking, stepping on the brake pedal, turning toward loud noises, etc. But I don't see a connection between that and what occurs in spiritual groups. What is it that happens in implicit memory that you think builds this picture? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:17:29 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious Message: Rudolf Stiener wrote a book called Atlantian Memory or Cosmic Memory- havent read it but have heard it goes into unconscious memory of our spiritual developement during pre/Atlantean times. --But Stiener pits himself against mainstream scientific thinking by advocating developing spiritualized thinking. Something he calls Spiritual Science. It makes sense that M would be exploiting our spiritual mamory by making a hybrid out of Indian/Hindu/new age- and then serving it up on a golden plate as Simple seasoned with co-dependance. I feel like I have been through boot comp for 2000. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |