Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 45

From: Apr 16, 1999

To: May 3, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



JHB -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:38:31 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:18:07 (EDT)
____JHB -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:39:12 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:49:35 (EDT)
______bobby -:- re: eggs -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:41:26 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:02:40 (EDT)
________Fred -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 18:29:10 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 21:00:36 (EDT)
____________Fred -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 13:57:01 (EDT)
______________Robyn -:- Birthdays in the ashram -:- Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 09:24:28 (EDT)

Gail -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:25:02 (EDT)
__Zac -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:41:10 (EDT)
____barney -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:56:22 (EDT)
______cp -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:33:01 (EDT)
__chr -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT)
__Nim -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:53:59 (EDT)
____Roger E. Drek -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 22:54:05 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- Anything exciting happen? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:56:28 (EDT)

Nigel -:- What a beautiful premie I am! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:11:29 (EDT)
__gregg -:- What a beautiful premie I am! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:47:31 (EDT)
____Runamok -:- What a beautiful premie I am! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:39:50 (EDT)
______nigel -:- I'm just the messenger -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:23:11 (EDT)
________Runamok -:- I'm just the messenger -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:10:25 (EDT)
__________nigel -:- I'm just the messenger -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 03:47:09 (EDT)
__nigel -:- and a couple more... -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
____Helen -:- and a couple more... -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:40:45 (EDT)

Katie -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 00:48:14 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:36:54 (EDT)
____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:46:50 (EDT)
______Bobby -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:21:24 (EDT)
________david m -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:45:09 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby-I know! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:46:07 (EDT)
____Bobby -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:01:15 (EDT)
______Happy -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:17:41 (EDT)
________L -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:46:48 (EDT)
________Helen -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:48:17 (EDT)
__________Bobby -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:46:29 (EDT)
______Bobby -:- thank you everyone (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:48:10 (EDT)
______Liz -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:05:26 (EDT)
________Bobby -:- dragons for early breakfast -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:05:49 (EDT)
__Liz -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:13:17 (EDT)
____Bobby -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby! -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 15:09:09 (EDT)
______Selene -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby! -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 16:23:08 (EDT)
________Bobby -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby! -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:10:48 (EDT)
__________Selene -:- Happy Birthday, Bobby! -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 16:05:58 (EDT)

kancha -:- get a life!!! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:57:00 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Here's one Rog -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:05:00 (EDT)
____Roger Ganja Drek -:- ***Best*** Poll Victory -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:08:12 (EDT)
__JW -:- You Are Kidding, Right? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:12:19 (EDT)
____Roger E. Drek -:- You Are Kidding, Right? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
__barney -:- get real!!! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:17:47 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- get a life!!! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:18:47 (EDT)
__Sir David -:- More sick examples -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:38:32 (EDT)
__Liz -:- get a life!!! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:48 (EDT)
__Zac -:- What are you talking about? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:10:01 (EDT)
__Bill Cooper -:- get a life!!! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:58:32 (EDT)
__Xan -:- get a life!!! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:21:01 (EDT)
__nigel -:- US is back - can't keep away! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:51:34 (EDT)
__HALIP -:- get a life!!! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
____Helen -:- New philosophy every day -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:21:16 (EDT)

Liz -:- Seeker of Truth -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:01:38 (EDT)
__Liz -:- Seeker of Truth -:- Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:58:59 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Seeker of Truth -:- Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 19:17:40 (EDT)

Miloochie -:- Making a link suggestion -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:04:15 (EDT)
__Miloochie -:- Thanks Brain/Katie -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 22:44:47 (EDT)
____Paul -:- Thanks for letting me join you -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:57:02 (EDT)
______Miloochie -:- You're most welcome -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:42:57 (EDT)

Zac -:- Maharaji's Domain name -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:45:47 (EDT)
__JW -:- A Possible Explanation -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:22:38 (EDT)
__Denise -:- Maharaji's Domain name -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:53:23 (EDT)
____Stevei -:- M's Domain.US/EURO -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:39:06 (EDT)
______Zac -:- Thanks stevei -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 17:57:38 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- M's Domain.US/EURO -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:01:44 (EDT)
______JW -:- M's Domain.US/EURO -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:15:40 (EDT)
________Runamok -:- Domain info -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:32:20 (EDT)
__________Stevei -:- Domain info -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:41:31 (EDT)
______HALIP -:- M's Domain.US/EURO -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:06:20 (EDT)
____Zac -:- Why would he 'dis' the net -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:24:51 (EDT)
______Katie -:- So the exes wouldn't take it! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:19:46 (EDT)
__Ben Lurking -:- Maharaji's Domain name -create -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:30:21 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:29:36 (EDT)
__Helen -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:51:43 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:33:00 (EDT)
__JW -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:35:54 (EDT)
____cp -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:51:33 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- Thanks JW, so true -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:32:48 (EDT)
______Miloochie -:- Thanks JM, so true -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:59:26 (EDT)
________Liz -:- Male Menopause -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:17:41 (EDT)
__________Liz -:- Male Menopause -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:20:46 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- I can see clearly now Liz -:- Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 09:05:31 (EDT)
____________Liz -:- I can see clearly now Liz -:- Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:54:02 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Post-cult syndrome? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:28:43 (EDT)
__Jim -:- That happened to me too! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:01:21 (EDT)
____Zac -:- Too Funny! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:31:55 (EDT)
______Roger E. Drek -:- You bet! ***Best*** -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:40 (EDT)
____Miloochie -:- Crying with laughter (nt) -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 23:13:30 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- No need to massacre them -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 04:45:19 (EDT)
____Your Mum -:- Jim, Honey -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:50:45 (EDT)
__Jim -:- My serious answer -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:45:52 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- Mind working in automatic -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:38:19 (EDT)
____Your Mum -:- Jim, Honey -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:28 (EDT)
__JW -:- Dog IDs -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:59:38 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- Where are m's dogs? -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:11:13 (EDT)
__Katie -:- post-post-cult syndrome -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:41:45 (EDT)
____Parrot -:- tattooed mind -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:45:09 (EDT)
____Runamok -:- post-post-cult syndrome -:- Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:22:25 (EDT)

Rahab -:- No Golden Toilets ?????? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 11:58:21 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- Would helipad suffice? -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:01:16 (EDT)
__Roger Taxman Drek -:- Devil is in the details -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:18:55 (EDT)
____Rahab -:- Devil is in the details -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:48:04 (EDT)
______Rahab -:- Devil is in the details -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:49:21 (EDT)
______JW -:- GEEZ -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:32 (EDT)
____Rahab -:- Lord of the Flies -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:21:42 (EDT)
______Rahab -:- Seva/Execucorp etal -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:27:32 (EDT)
________JW -:- Seva/Execucorp etal -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:28:14 (EDT)
______JW -:- Lord of the Flies -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:26:25 (EDT)
________Roger Lindberg Drek -:- it's for propagation, come on! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:35:08 (EDT)
__________Rocket Woman -:- A Blimp! -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:47:55 (EDT)
________Rahab -:- Twirly Bird -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:36:32 (EDT)
__________JW -:- Twirly Bird -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:14 (EDT)
________Jean-Michel -:- Not sure getting the point -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:55:30 (EDT)
__________Irish Nanny -:- Corporate Elves -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:56:05 (EDT)
__________JW -:- Not sure getting the point -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:44:51 (EDT)
____________Jean-Michel -:- So lame! -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:13:24 (EDT)

Peter Howie -:- Memory, spirit and unconscious -:- Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 21:55:02 (EDT)
__Helen -:- Memory, spirit and unconscious -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 09:31:24 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Memory, spirit and unconscious -:- Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:36:15 (EDT)
____cp -:- Memory, spirit and unconscious -:- Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:17:29 (EDT)


Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:38:31 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
The thread below about Bobby's birthday reminded me that I spent my 21st birthday in Brighton ashram. The event was totally ignored by all the other premies.

Other people have nice memories of their coming of age. I guess I didn't come of age in that mind numbing cult.

John.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:18:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: JHB
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Dear JHB,
I wonder when that was, your 21st birthday. This is how different my experience was...of course I wasn't in an ashram but a premie house, could that have made that much difference?
There were 15 days at the end of May, beginning of June and almost everyday was someone in our group's birthday and we would have a big party. Of course I am glad I didn't experience a lot of the shit that a lot of premies did but I am really sorry that it happened all the time and that it happened to you.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:39:12 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
It was 1974. A long, long time ago:-)

John.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:49:35 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
... Not to mention how difficult it was to bake a cake without eggs! I think Dettmers & DECA Aviation Enterprises snagged our cake recipes to use the resulting glop as an industrial strength glue to hold together the 707. In fact, I think he patented the stuff!

Wonder if that French Chef would want the recipe?

Happy Birthday to all who missed a few in the 'Lila Years'.

Love,
Mary
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:41:26 (EDT)
From: bobby
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: re: eggs
Message:
In 1974, when I was in the ashram in Philadelphia in the main line house, our treasurer took us for a weekend vacation at his family's house at the Jersey Shore. It was a real thrill to spend time swimming.

There were a bunch of snacks and I went for the cookies. mmmmm....cookies. I had the package in my hand when suddenly Brad reached over and grabbed the package to read the ingredients.

'Uh, oh, there's eggs in here!'
No more cookies for anyone. All the other packages were inspected for any trace of meat, fish or egg.
'These crackers are made with lard!'

I was pissed.
Big deal. A couple of eggs in a box of cookies. I wanted my cookies. A couple of my ashram friends would always be going out for hamburgers and shit on Divine Sales.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:02:40 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mary M
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Dear Mary,
I forgot about no eggs! I was the house mother at a farm and was quite the cook if I do say so myself. :) Everyone said it was like living at a resturant. I use to make cakes with powedered egg substitue and had excellent results with that. Of course not good for breakfast!!!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 18:29:10 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Reading this forum has brought back to me so many memories of the 70s and 80s. I think that my best memories of tne ashram were the kinds of food that could be created from nothing. Alan R. in L.A., making a _feast_ from scraps in the kitchen!
Oh yeah, scrambled eggs = tofu with turmeric.
So, I'm just coming to terms with 10 years with m, (73 to 83) and 16 years wondering what the hell happened to 10 years of my youth...
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 21:00:36 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Fred
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Dear Fred,
Hey I think you are new! Welcome. I wonder if you were in an ashram? 'If you can make it here you can make it anywhere...' I hope you get to shed some of that confusion/anger/hurt you just let time bury. It is good to get it out.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 13:57:01 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Robyn,
Yes, I'm 'new'. I've been reading this forum for about a year now and just about everything I read sparks some new memory from my years as a premie. Most ideas expressed here really ring true because I NEVER felt a 'relationship' with maharaji at all, (I wasn't an important premie..) but the knowledge techniques were and still are helpful. I lived in an ashram in L.A. from '80 to '83. I'll probably write a journey soon just to get some old feelings out in the open.
I feel like any relationship I have with god is happening all the time inside me and it's always new. It has nothing to do with any other person at all. Boy, I sure wish I'd known that in the 70s.
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Date: Tues, Apr 27, 1999 at 09:24:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Fred
Subject: Birthdays in the ashram
Message:
Dear Fred,
'Boy, I sure wish I'd known that in the 70s.'
Yeah, but just think, a lot of people die never having realized that 'god' is inside. I believe the same in that I see the whole thing more as the life force in all things is what connects us.
Glad you've been around for a year and know the deal here. It can get hostile I guess, I stay away from that for the most part but there is also great support and interesting discussions. Have fun.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:25:02 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Hi Folks--been away. Please fill me in if anything significant has happened such as--GURU LOSES AN ADDITIONAL 50% OF HIS FLOCK AS A RESULT OF EX-PREMIE.ORG.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:41:10 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Hi Gail, Where you been? I almost posted where is Gail? Wondering if you'd been abducted by reprogrammers. If you haven't been reading there are lots of new posters premie and ex so the forum is working! Later
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:56:22 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Yeah, I was wondering just two days ago where you were, too.

No, it's been pretty quiet here. Almost boring!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:33:01 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Its been quasi interesting. But-- Drek has a Fabulous auction (THE preferred jacket lapel adornment for the coming Millenium celebrations is up for bid) and and the Chef Thread below is kind of a scream.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
I seem to only get time to look in here infrequently, so ditto to Gail's message above. BTW what happenened to the great April expose promised re the rumours about M's affairs?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:53:59 (EDT)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Glad you're back Gail! We'll talk later.
In the meantime, I' amazed at some of the bullshit I can remember.
To wit my 'Get Smart Text Mart' thread.
It won't change your life...but...you DID ask if 'anything exciting happen?'
Then again, maybe I'm the only one who really cares, so its exciting, but for me only. Ya know what I mean.
Nice to see ya posting again:)
Nimmie
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 22:54:05 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Hey, Nim, you bet I care about Amtext! Don't stop. Yes, when we were involved we didn't want to know. But, premies like to brag about how important they are and how much M needs them. And it's interesting to see the details come back now.

Oh yes, my premie friends, we really do live only in the past here, don't we? Nah, we're trying to shine some light into the darkness caused by the eclipse when FatBoy passed in front of the sun. Where did the best years of my life go? Looking for an angry fix in the cow pied pasture in the swamps of Kissimmee.

Gail, anything exciting happen? To be honest, YES! It's been quite intense.

Mary M. (maybe new to you) is helping unravel the mysteries of the corporate shell game where Maharaji is running a world wide scam. Maybe we can get your donations back.

See Michael Dettmers and the Swiss Foundation for some of the early details. We need to compile all of Mary M.'s posts somehow to show the extent of Maharaji's evil empire.

Also, you can catch up on some of the funnier posts at Roger's Best of the Forum.

And we've had some real dangerous premie kooks posting.

And, I'm feeling that there is gonna be a whole lot more, too. No violent threats here, just a feeling that something is gonna break loose soon.

Come on, Maharaji! We know you're out there. What do you say other than your lame website? Or have you already been here as one of those premie kooks with your belly full of cognac or fine wine?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:56:28 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Anything exciting happen?
Message:
Hi Gail,

Surely Roger jests! I'm really just trying to locate my dear grandmother Nellie's watch. I was coerced into throwing it into one of those white paint buckets in London - circa 1973! I've pretty much concluded that the watch was either in the suitcase of watches & jewelry Maharaji got busted with in India or it's in a warehouse guarded by Maharaji's security goons. I bet they wear those wrap around skinny shades now with reflective lenses. Come to think of it, they're probably are the origin of this Trench Coat Mafia trend. Very dangerous goonies.

In the process of looking for Nellie's watch, or information thereof, I've found Helicopters, gliders,Divine Residences, French Chefs, a Partridge in a Pear Tree (Ha Ha I didn't find the partridges YET) natural food (Prem Mark) acquisitions, Deltek, Dettmer Enterprises, Dettmers Consulting Firm (with a name that sounds like a hemorrhoidal or vaginal itch gel - Glygocol- whatever I just can't get that company's name) Amtext, Text Mart, SEVA, Execucorp, Anacapa View Estates .....

My family re-union is in July and I must do my best to get the details on Nellie's watch.

In the meantime I'll just keep poking around the nooks and crannies of Rawats 'Nouveau Riche' world and as I wade thru the muck I'll keep the X/3 Forum posted!

Looking forward to your posts,

Mary M
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:11:29 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: What a beautiful premie I am!
Message:
Until the Drexter found the Foss and Larkin paper down below, it hadn't occurred to me so scour the University's Sociological indexes. Turned up a few interesting abstracts (unfortunately the library doesn't stock most of the journals involved, but I could order copies of the full papers).

Anyway, here are a couple of independent pieces of research arriving at a similar conclusion regarding premie narcissism:


TI: Cult Groups and the Narcissistic Personality: The Offer to Heal Defects in the Self
AU: Kriegman,-Daniel; Solomon,-Leonard
AUI: Kriegman,-Daniel; Solomon,-Leonard
IN: 144A Mount Auburn St, Cambridge MA 02138
SO: International-Journal-of-Group-Psychotherapy; 1985, 35, 2, Apr, 239-261.
JN: International-Journal-of-Group-Psychotherapy
CO: IJGPAO
DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article
LA: English
CP: United-States
PY: 1985
AB: H. Kohut's self-psychology (The Analysis of Self, New York: International Us Press, 1971) is applied toward an understanding of the self-functions that membership in a religious cult provides for the narcissistic personality (NP). Based on clinical tests & interviews comparing followers of the Guru Mahara Ji, leader of the Divine Light Mission, & a control group, it is proposed that a psychosocial fit exists between the appeal of the cult's structure & process, & the needs of the NP. The cult offers reparative & substitutive functions to the follower who seeks an idealized self object to stabilize a defective sense of self. The special relationship of the follower to the guru bears a close resemblance to the 'idealizing transference' that arises between certain NP patients & their group therapists. The therapeutic use & misuse of the 'idealizing transference' in group therapy is explored & suggestions are made for its appropriate clinical management. 1 Table, 23 References. HA
DE: *Cults- (D189600); *Personality-Traits (D619800); *Church-Membership (D127800); *Narcissism- (D547800)
IP: narcissistic personality, religious cult group membership; clinical tests/interviews; Divine Light Mission followers
SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535)
CC: 1535; 1500
AN: 86Q3916
UD: 199812



And the following is a summary of a book chapter:


Wolfgang Kuner - New Religious Movements and Mental Health - presents data obtained from administration of the Minnesota Multiphase Personality Inventory to German members (total N = 246 men & 271 women) of the Unification Church, the Children of God, the Ananda Marga, & student controls. No clinical evidence of a general mental disturbance was found in Ss belonging to any of the three religious movements; however, the members displayed similar personalities with somewhat narcissistic traits.


(from: TI: OF GODS AND MEN: NEW RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS IN THE WEST
AU: Barker,-Eileen-[Ed]
AUI: Barker,-Eileen-[Ed]
CT: Lofland,-John; Skonovd,-Norman; Snow,-David-A.; Machalek,-Richard; Bourg,-Carroll-J.; Richardson,-James-T.; Walker,-Andrew; Hill,-Samuel-S.; Schwartz,-Paul-Anthony; McBride,-James; Burfoot,-Jean; Ahern,-Geoffrey; Shupe,-Anson-D.,-Jr.; Hardin,-Gert-L.; Bromley,-David-G.; Beckford,-James-A.; Bird,-Frederick; Reimer,-William; King,-Christine-E.; Kuner,-Wolfgang; Tipton,-Steven-M.; Rochford,-E.-Burke,-Jr.; Derks,-Frans; van-der-Lans,-Jan-M.
IN: London School Economics & Political Science, Aldwych WC2A 2AE England
PB: xiii+347pp, CI, Macon, GA: Mercer University Press.
IB: 0865540950
DT: bka Book-Abstract
LA: English
PY: 1984)
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:47:31 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: Nigel
Subject: What a beautiful premie I am!
Message:
So involvement w/ a cult provides 'reparative and substitutive functions' and helps to 'stabilize a defective sense of self.' Interesting. Thanks for digging that up, Nigel.

Does that sound entirely negative? It is if you stay with the cult for decades, of course. But, looking at it from the perspective of one who was only sucked in for a few years...perhaps those years were therapeutic in some sense. In the sense of: my self-image was flawed and misguided and fucked up etc, and in my involvement with DLM I responded to something beyond self and society...which has turned out to be, for me, a genuine involvement with Mystery -- although this time, spirituality means engagement with the world, not turning away from reality -- which is what cults demand. The 'meditation' propagated by Rawat was essentially spiritual onanism. Not that onanism is bad now and then, but as a spiritual path...

From my short time in this Forum, I gather an anti-guru, anti spirituality spirit prevails. But are there any other Pollyannas out there who don't regret their Earth shoe days?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:39:50 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gregg
Subject: What a beautiful premie I am!
Message:
That is sooo funny Gregg. I was just going to mention how 'reparative and substitutive functions' had been so important to me in my cult experience... but they beat me to it... by 10 years. That's social scientists for ya!

Well, hey Nigel, some of these guys might enjoy an email referring them to this site and the wealth of information and resources here.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:23:11 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: I'm just the messenger
Message:
Nah, I don't think so. In many respects these Freudians are the most cultish of the lot. I just found it quite amusing really - and probably with a grain of truth in there once you get past the bollock-speak.
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:10:25 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: I'm just the messenger
Message:
Yeah, but like you said (I think 'twas you), if they knew there was still activity, they'd want to study it!!
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 03:47:09 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Runamok
Subject: I'm just the messenger
Message:
The trouble is, the people doing the study of finances seemed to have got all their data from what was already public knowledge and by asking cult members directly. I mean, imagine asking a premie today: 'so tell me about Amtext and where all the money goes...'

You'd probably need an undercover investigion by a journalist or the fraud squad to get any useful facts out. Even armed with stuff from this site, the sociologists findings would only end up in an obscure journal that nobody actually reads.

Another part of the paper I forgot to mention was the way that DLM placed all the blame for the Millennium disaster - and the promises to bring Knowledge to every person on the planet - firmly at the feet of cult members 'no longer part of the organisation'.

So some things never change.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: and a couple more...
Message:
TI: How People Recognize Charisma: The Case of Darshan in Radhasoami and Divine Light Mission
AU: DuPertuis,-Lucy
AUI: DuPertuis,-Lucy
IN: U Guam, Agana 96910
SO: Sociological-Analysis; 1986, 44, 2, summer, 111-124.
JN: Sociological-Analysis
CO: SCLAAV
DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article
LA: English
CP: United-States
PY: 1986
AB: Examined is the recognition of charisma as an active, conscious social process involving the confirmation of belief through noncognitive methods of altering perception. Illustrated by the Sant Mat/Radhasoami/Divine Light Mission case, the Hindu concept & ritual of darshan is examined. Devotees use meditative means to recognize charisma in the guru, considered as the formless Absolute, as himself, & as a presence generated within the community of followers. The aim on all three levels is ecstatic merging of a separate sense of self with the Absolute. It is conjectured that once Westerners learned this, they no longer felt need of the guru. Further research on social components of mystical practices is recommended. 50 References. HA
DE: *Charisma- (D119400); *Hinduism- (D359400); *Mysticism- (D546600)
IP: darshan concept/ritual, Hinduism, guru's charisma, devotees' recognition
SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535); social psychology; cognitive/interpretive sociologies, symbolic interactionism, & ethnomethodology (0373)
CC: 1535; 1500; 0373; 0300
AN: 87R2379
UD: 199812

2 of 5
Marked in Search: #1
TI: New Religious Movements Turn to Worldly Success
AU: Khalsa,-Kirpal-Singh
AUI: Khalsa,-Kirpal-Singh
SO: Journal-for-the-Scientific-Study-of-Religion; 1986, 25, 2, June, 233-247.
JN: Journal-for-the-Scientific-Study-of-Religion
IS: 0021-8294
CO: JSSRBT
DT: aja Abstract-of-Journal-Article
LA: English
CP: United-States
PY: 1986
AB: An examination of the financial activities, ideological foundations, & goals of three new religious movements - 3HO Foundation, Divine Light Mission, & Vajradhatu. Research methods included participant observation, taped interviews (N not given), analysis of movement literature, & examinations of group financial records. Results indicate that worldly success has become a religiously significant venture for at least two of the movements. Within these groups, there is a high degree of successful entrepreneurial & professional activity. There is also organizational & ideological support from the movement's leadership to the membership to become rich. Several interpretations are offered, including historical precedent, sect-church transformation, institutionalization, a search for legitimacy, & leadership influences. Resource mobilization is argued to be the most effective theoretical approach. Accordingly, movement direction is determined by rational leadership decisions in a practical attempt to realize goals & to promote group maintenance & survival. 1 Appendix, 22 References. HA
DE: *Religious-Movements (D706500); *Wealth- (D914100)
IP: financial activities/ideological foundations/goals, 3HO Foundation/Divine Light Mission/Vajradhatu religious movements; participant observation, interviews, movement literature/records

SH: sociology of religion; sociology of religion (1535)
CC: 1535; 1500
AN: 86R0324
UD: 199812

I managed to find this second paper, and read it right through. There was comparatively little devoted to DLM, largely because at that time - the mid-eighties - EV had gone very low-key, while these other movements were conspicuously focusing on attaining material wealth through the setting-up of businesses.

It did, however, document some of DLM's financial disasters in the seventies and stressed the fact that without a constant influx of new recruits to compensate for the drop-out rate and still cover spending, the movement would (and did for a while after Millenium) be unable to remain solvent.

It would be interesting to read a post-Amtext update if the authors were to repeat the study.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:40:45 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: and a couple more...
Message:
I guess there's a rich mine of material there for sociological study...I'm surprised though that all these papers exist.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 00:48:14 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: katie@ex-premie.org
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think!
Message:
Hi Bobby -
I seem to recall that your birthday is April 23 or close to it - (apologies if I got the date wrong). Anyway, I hope you have a great birthday despite the rough time you're going through right now. I want to wish you good health, lots of love, and much happiness in the year to come. And many happy returns, too!

Love from Katie
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:36:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think!
Message:
Dear Bobby,
Yes, Happy Birthday dear. May not be your best birthday but hope the caring you find here in your birthday thread helps to lift your spirits.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:46:50 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think!
Message:
Happy Birthday, Bobby! I hope you have an interesting, yet peaceful, day.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:21:24 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think!
Message:
Thanks Father Mickey!

Yesterday was interesting all right, but more along the lines of the old Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times!' =:P

It was a big day yesterday - Radiation followed by Chemo followed by more radiation. Then I was to get a feeding tube inserted.

I've been the 'model communicator' with all this business. I always have to be sure of exactly what is going on. There's often a suprising lack of communication interdepartmentally with the hospital and that can translate down to wrong procedure or instruction. I took great pains to let everyone know the sequencing of what I needed to do that day. Everything was time critical.

At 8:30 I was supposed to see my chemo doctor. No show. I had needed to talk with him cause last time I saw him he assured me that everything would be 'much easier' than the severe nausea and vomitting I experienced for protracted periods for my last chemo. I was lying there on the bed for 2 and a half hours with no show from the doc and no start to my chemo. The whole chemo infusion takes three hours and I needed to be at the next radiation at 1:15.

I asked the nurse to read me what the doctor had written on my chart. I sounded to me like exactly the same procedure I had gotten the last time, only some increases in anti-nausea drugs. However, there was one addition - Compazine. Compazine is a drug from a family of drugs called phenothyazines that I have reiterated again and again to the doctors that I under no circumstance want to take. The nurse stated she would mark my instructions for no phenothyazines in red on my chart.

To make a long story short, everthing fell behind and I was unable to get my feeding tube placed. If I get severely nauseated and vomit this time and can't keep any food or water down I will go into dehydration and will have to get a special liquid tube placed immediately. Sheesh.

I did pretty good through all of this but lost it and started loudly declaiming the problems with the situation when the doctor told me at 4:30 that they were rescheduling the feeding tube for Monday. Twenty minutes before hand he had assured me that they would get me in.

I didn't have a ride home. I had everything set up to be picked up the next day. They had to call around for an hour to get me a ride from an American Cancer Society volunteer.

Today I'm doing well. Right now I should say. I have some nausea but it's not bad right now. This whole process is moment to moment. I can feel OK or even well, then shift to some pretty bad experiences.

It's all pretty interesting. And peaceful. Thanks to prayer, meditation and the caring of some pretty wonderful people!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:45:09 (EDT)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I think!
Message:
Hey Bobby Wishing you the best ....hope this year brings you peace..and health, keep the faith and i hope all the sickness goes away..hang in there and be strong..peace..love...david m
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:46:07 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby-I know!
Message:
Hi Bobby,

Happy, Happy Birthday! And don't forget to make a wish!

Love,
Mary M
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:01:15 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
Thanks Katie and Robyn,

Yes, today is my birthday, along with Billy Shakespeare and Charlie Frick. On the bus to Prem Nagar, back in 1971, I discovered that Charlie and I were born on the exact same day. Anybody know Charlie? He was a writer for East Village Other, covered Maharaji when he first came to New York, and became a premie. Later he wrote for High Times. Ain't seen the man in about 15 years or so.

Yes the times are rough and this whole cancer treatment process is really the greatest challenge of my life.

The love, prayers, support and healing make a big difference and are much appreciated.

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:17:41 (EDT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
Happy birthday, Bobby, and get well!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:46:48 (EDT)
From: L
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
Happy Birthday and Happy New Personal Year.....
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 17:48:17 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
Hey Bobby,
Wow, I sure admire the way you're keeping your doctors from lapsing in unconsciousness. It's pretty scary that they had that medication on your chart--but it's great that you caught it.

You're taking good care of yourself, it sounds like to me, although the whole things sucks.

May this year hold healthful times ahead. May God hold you in the palm of His/Her hand.

Love
Helen
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:46:29 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
Yeah, one thing I keep learning again and again....never assume anything is properly communicated amongst medical personel. At certain junctures ya gotta trust the process, but first ya gotta do your best to know everything you can about what is going on.

I keep copies of all my medical records, (there's a bunch of new ones I gotta access though). Interesting to see what the doctors write in their impressions. In each document there are several factual errors.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 19:48:10 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: All
Subject: thank you everyone (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:05:26 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby
Message:
I meant to tell you it was St. Georges Day as well but I guess you know all about slaying dragons!

Love,

Liz
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:05:49 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: dragons for early breakfast
Message:
Yes!

Which reminds me I got a wonderful cybercard on my birthday from a dear friend of St. George and the dragon. I've always loved that beautiful painting of St. George by Raphael, used to keep it in my book The Hero of a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.

All part of a personal quest for the holy grail.
Sometimes you eat the dragon and sometimes the dragon eats you!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 23:13:17 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby!
Message:
Dear Bobby,

I felt your pain! No - really at the time I bet it felt awful. Now you are lucky to be able to look back and hopefully laugh about it.

It's my dad's birthday today too - he is 88 years old and always told me what a con-artist M was and I never believed him, of course thinking I knew something he didn't. Now I realize my dad is a wise man and I love him dearly.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOBBY!!

Did you know the people in Brighton? Glen Whittaker and co?

I believe there is a head-master there who is a premie. Do you know him?

Love, Liz
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 15:09:09 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby!
Message:
Hi Liz,

Pretty neat that your Dad's birthday is the 23rd too and you seem to have a great relationship with him.
Say happy birthday to him for me.

Yeah, I'm doing some laughing, and my treatment process is continuing. I'm in the middle of it. Got some weeks to go. This week has actually been better than other recent ones.

I know I come off as 'pollyannish' sometimes here on this forum in terms of my attempts to express love and gratitude but what the hell. Kind of an awkward aspect of me. I'm someone who has an inner daemon and needs to speak personally, even if it's awkward and incomplete.

Another aspect of me is very strong and I am doing what I call shamanic work with this healing process. It takes everything. My whole life is in this process and the process is happening physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

I have strong feelings, and am working on purification and feel a lot of gratitude. My main figures right now for purification are Jesus and Vajrasattva. Very personal, but full of meaning and power for me. Here's a little web page I did with their pictures yesterday.

Jesus and Vajrasattva

I'm on the other side of the lake from Britain. In Pennsylvania in the US, so don't know those guys.

Thanks for your input Liz.

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 16:23:08 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby!
Message:
Glad I checked forum! Happy Birthday! I undserstand abuot having to say what you need to here.
I do that too. (like I need to tell anyone that)
It's always good to hear from you, tho I don't share a lot of your spirituality I have a basic core of, something....
a sense of integrity, something. And I love doing my own solitary
version of paganism. Glad this week has been OK treatment wise.
Love
The Moon Goddess (now that's not pretentious is it)
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 04:10:48 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby!
Message:
I admire your integrity Selene and your intense creativity.
Your moon-goddess expressions are great!

So we don't share a lot of the same spirituality?
We probably share more in the substance rather than form.
Our paths are unique and that's a good thing.

Love,

Bobby
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 16:05:58 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Happy Birthday, Bobby!
Message:
Yes we do share a lot in substance. best whisper off to the side
about it....
naw who cares. I am happy to hear from you Bobby.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:57:00 (EDT)
From: kancha
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
This website is an awful and sick example of loosers that didn't make in life. So what? he is not a god, but hey he is a good business man. The world loves it, and he obviously loves it in his sly style of high living. He didn't steal or forced anybody to join in his cult. It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not. It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father. Why don't we draw the cartoon of all the ex-premies and create a forum and poke in their individual lives. He is helping in lot of ways to lot of people around the world. In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope. Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god. But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you? Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is? But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!! Ex-Premies don't waste your time if you can't live in a mansion, or have your own jet. What you're going to open a discussion that you didn't have brains to be Bill Gates or Michael Jordan....Maharaji is likewise one of them. If you don't like Nike buy Reebok. Try other hobbies than to poke someone. Do things like getlaid, masturbate, shop, sleep, meditate, read books than to write junk on somebody. Everyday is a new day and begin everyday with a new philosophy.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:05:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: Here's one Rog
Message:
See, sometimes I try to imitate premies. I pretend that I pretend that I'm stupid and just let it rip. But who can make up stuff this good? Not me. From the first common premie mistake reflective of a misspent youth, the misspelling of 'loser', to the garbled unmessage... well, you don't get this way overnight. I'm sure of it.

Here are some of my favorite parts:

It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not.

It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father.

But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!!

My favorite, of course, must be this part:

In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope. Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god. But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you? Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:08:12 (EDT)
From: Roger Ganja Drek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ***Best*** Poll Victory
Message:
Yes, this post is definitely a BEST. It's got it all starting with the get a life!!! followed by unsubstantiable facts and some plain old bad thinking. Imagine that little more than a year ago I was saying the exact same stuff. And now look at me!

Victory is our momentarily at the House of Drek Opinion Poll where 282 respondents are clearly confused as to what Maharaji is:

6% Teacher of Meditation
49% Master
0% Humanitarian Leader
3% God Incarnate
37% Fraud
6% Don't Know

Here at the Drek International Towers we have our chef cook up a big spread and we break out the champagne whenever Master falls below 50%. Unfortunately the mere posting of the results will cause the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle to demonstrate itself.

Roger's House of Drek

Roger's Best of the Forum
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:12:19 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: You Are Kidding, Right?
Message:
Kancha,

I hope you're kidding, that what you posted was a joke, otherwise you are one very distrubed person.

Maharaji is a manipulator but you go listen to him anyway; He's not god, but it's good for the local economy if people in India believe he is; in India people need to believe in something, so it might as well be a fradulent, manipulating god; In fact, you really like being manipulated and it's your choice so what's the big deal?

Like I said, for your sake, I hope what you posted is a joke.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:14 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: You Are Kidding, Right?
Message:
Well, my kind hearted buddy Barney is back in town after spending all winter doing research in the Antarctica and before I knew it he was in there responding.

Yes, this one is a keeper. Read 'em and weep!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:17:47 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get real!!!
Message:
How long have you been into Maharaji?

Where are you from?

Your understanding of how Maharaji is the last hope for India and Nepal is simply fanciful thinking. That is not true in the least.

Also, saying that he is helping these and other countries with his programs through tourism does not take into account how much money he ultimately is removing from these countries (probably more than what the tourists spend.) And the number of tourists that visit any country due to Maharaji is insignificant to have any real impact on the economy. This is more wishful thinking.

Nor is Maharaji a good businessman unless you rank him along with the slave traders and other slave owners. Without the slaves these businessmen were nothing. And, the same is true for Maharaji. Without your money and the money and efforts of others he would have nothing. And really, I think that other people are doing all the thinking and investing for Maharaji.

He has said he was God. He allowed us to call him God. Therefore, he must be. And now you say he isn't. Sounds funny to me.

No, we really don't care that we don't live in mansions. That's not the issue here. The issue is how did he really get all that money and wealth.

You need to educate yourself a little more before you attempt to defend him here. As long as your are nice you can ask questions and you can better understand the issues.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:18:47 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
So, Kancha...

You're saying your man is kind of like a Football game? Good for the local economies? What's next the infamous Budweiser Frogs pronouncing Ma Raj eee, Ma raj eee...... Hmmm that would be a cool screen saver!

Just as Maharaji and Marolyn protected their children from sexual exploitation by Mahatma Jagdeo and Raphael or a hammer bashing from their friend Fakiranand, they'll need to protect their children from this site.

Not our problem.

Touched a few nerves I see. In the process of your rant have you happened to discover what happened to Nellie's watch.

You know the Irish. I can't go to another family re-union without proving I've look under every nook and cranny for grandma's watch;-)
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:38:32 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: kancha
Subject: More sick examples
Message:
If you think this web page is sick then you should see what some deranged and perverted ex-premie has put up on the net! Just point your browser to Maharaji's Homepage to see what some sick and obscene stuff some ex-premie loser has created.

And if that doesn't horrify you enough then go next to The truth about Maharaji and see the depths of depravity to which this ex-premie has fallen as he spews forth his vicious lies and evil words. Truly the rantings of a madman!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:48 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
Even in the sixties and almost certainly before, the Arya Samaj were demonstrating at M's programmes in India trying to tell the innocent Hindus not to worship a living Lord. We young Westerners without the advice of the Arya Samaj fell hook, line & sinker.

Then in 1999 this idiot comes along a says it's O.K. - BULLSHIT! You get a Life!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:10:01 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: What are you talking about?
Message:
It's ones choice to manipulated or not? He's good for the economy?
We know he's not god but people want to beleive he is?

I have never been as baffled by anything I've ever read in my life. What the fuck are you saying kancha?

I live in a goddamn mansion you idiot.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:58:32 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
And lets not forget Hitler gave people the volkswagon, autobahns and white bread. Hell even Mussolini got the trains running on time so lets not here anything bad about these guys either.
Maharaji LIED big time to millions of people who had the crazy idea that he could be trusted.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:21:01 (EDT)
From: Xan
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
Kancha
I doubt that you have the courage to come back to see how people responded to you, unless of course it Was a joke. If you are here, I have a few questions.

What I want to know is since you believe in the choice to be manipulated, would there not also be a choice to read or not read anything here? Choice for you and for Maharaji's kids.

Are you for or against poking someone? You recomend not poking someone, but it seems you really mean it's okay to poke ex-premies but not okay to poke M., or possibly yourself.

Why isn't one of the commandments, 'Mind your own business'?

I don't somehow get the connection of Bill Gates, Michael Jordan and Maharaji. You like famous, smart, rich people? What does this have to do with what M. is teaching? What in the world are you talking about?

And what do you want?
Xan
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:51:34 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: kancha
Subject: US is back - can't keep away!
Message:
This website is an awful and sick example of loosers that didn't make in life.

So why do you want to be part of it all?

(BTW: I made it in life just fine, thanks, and on my own terms - just as many others here have done who were once penniless gurunoids without prospects.)

So what? he is not a god, but hey he is a good business man.

Wrong. He is a successful businessman, just as Hitler was a successful leader of men, rather than a good one.

The world loves it,

Show me a single, positive character reference from outside of the EV organisation.

and he obviously loves it in his sly style of high living.

Righti-ho. I'll go and kiss his feet, then.

He didn't steal or forced anybody to join in his cult. It is all about manipulation and it is one's choice to be manipulated or not.

Hey folks, don't you just love a sly manipulator? Jim Jones anyone? Applewhite?

Ok, kancha, we had free will and we chose to be deceived and manipulated by fraudster. We can also apply that free will to warn others off getting manipulated. Just as you could use your free-will to fuck off elsewhere. Everyone else is here because they enjoy the company. You are clearly not enjoying the company, and are probably not even enjoying life, yet you keep coming back incognito to share your incoherent rambles which on the one hand generate great mirth amongst forum readers, but seem to reveal some sort of inner personal distress on your part. (They make you look a bit of a looser, in fact.) Are you ok?

It is really sad to see people humilate him in a web like this. I don't think his kids like to see this great page of their father.

Yeah, fancy being so mean to a sly manipulator who only tried to run a perfectly 'ornery little cult. Life just ain't fair, is it?

Why don't we draw the cartoon of all the ex-premies and create a forum and poke in their individual lives.

It's your choice. Go ahead - free-will and all that. If you lie about anyone, though, you'll probably get sued. Maharaji doesn't sue because this site carries no lies about him.

He is helping in lot of ways to lot of people around the world. In countries like India and Nepal, he is a symbol of last hope.

I'd say that was pretty desperate - especially since the greater part of those countries needs are for food, medicine and practical resources - not symbols (come to fleece them via darshan donations).

Yes he is not god but people in that part of the world want to feel as if he was a god.

How dare you suggest Maharaji isn't God. When did M ever say he wasn't?

But you don't see a website to 'praise the lord' do you?

They're sprouting up all over the garden like the giant hogweed. Try maharaji.org or enjoyinglife.org. Better still, go and see whether they'll publish any of your philosophical witterings.

Lots of things in this world aren't what we think is?

Uhh?

But at least whereever he has satsangs, he is bringing tourist and mobilizing an economy in lots of different aspects, and not to mention his great energy of communication...I go attend his satsang just to listen how he uses words..Its fun!!! Ex-Premies don't waste your time if you can't live in a mansion, or have your own jet. What you're going to open a discussion that you didn't have brains to be Bill Gates or Michael Jordan....Maharaji is likewise one of them. If you don't like Nike buy Reebok. Try other hobbies than to poke someone. Do things like getlaid, masturbate, shop, sleep, meditate, read books than to write junk on somebody. Everyday is a new day and begin everyday with a new philosophy.

You're bonkers.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: kancha
Subject: get a life!!!
Message:
You are either rather mad or this is your idea of a joke. Furthermor, your syntax is awful. Anyway, if you don't feel too well, as your post do indicate, don't despair : there are many good doctors for your kind of sickness.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 21:21:16 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Kancha
Subject: New philosophy every day
Message:
Everyday get a new philosophy?? Oy vey, I should hope there would be a little carry over from the day before! Gee I think today I'll try on this for my philosophy--make money and rip people off--oh boy!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:01:38 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Seeker of Truth
Message:
I have just reread this journey and really like it. The seeker of truth was so sincere in his letter to m. The letter was so well written, honest and fair.

I wrote a letter to m, knowing I probably wouldn't get a reply and this was my last straw.

The last paragraph in his letter confused me a little regarding the very deep experience of bliss. I can only hope that The Seeker of Truth doesn't find the world so mundane anymore and that because of brainwashing by m it only appeared that way.

Because at the moment I can't imagine ever feeling that experience again but am fairly happy to let it go so as to enjoy the other 90% of my 'mundane' time a lot more than I did when I was busy hooked on retrieving 'the bliss'and not enjoying the moment.
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Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:58:59 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Seeker of Truth
Message:
Just curious to know why this thread wasn't taken up. I'm fairly new to all this and haven't started many threads so I'd like to know why. Any ideas? Positive criticism only, please!
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Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 19:17:40 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Seeker of Truth
Message:
Hi Liz,

I wasn't sure who you were referring to as 'Seeker of Truth' i.e. was it a thread or a journey? I seem to be having a few problems with IE5 so that the posts I've already read go back to the 'unread' color.

Also, I think we were throwing some 'Pots and Pans' all over the threads and if there was a 'Seeker of Truth' letter to M I either missed it or
it
fell
over
the
edge ;-o

Luv,
Mary M
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:04:15 (EDT)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Making a link suggestion
Message:
Hope this is of help to some. This is how I figured out how to do it.

1. Compose a post. When it comes to placing a link, PASTE this 'compose link' into the message being written.

<a href='PASTE-URL-HERE'>TYPE-NAME-OF-LINK-HERE</a>

[I keep a copy of this handy - on Notepad, Wordpad, etc.]

2. Get the actual LINK you want (you might have to go to the site and there it will be on the 'Location' line). COPY it (include the http://www.name.suffix).

3. Back to your message. SELECT (drag mouse over just the words PASTE-ADDRESS-HERE in the sample compose link). Now PASTE your link (leave the '' quotations marks).

4. Now, SELECT the TYPE-NAME-OF-LINK-HERE and simply type in what you want the link to be labelled. i.e. Click Here...or...Roger's Site Can Be Found Here...etc.

That's it.

5. Testing: Finish composing your post. Click 'Submit your Message' and on the next trial page you can test your link, then click 'Back' on your browser and do the final 'Submit Your Message.'

Miloochie
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 22:44:47 (EDT)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: Brain/Katie
Subject: Thanks Brain/Katie
Message:
Thanks for fixing that. I thought some who are still writing that they can't figure it out (making a link) might find this explanation more user friendly. The links are so crucial sometimes.

Miloochie
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 03:57:02 (EDT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Miloochie
Subject: Thanks for letting me join you
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:42:57 (EDT)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: Paul
Subject: You're most welcome
Message:
Hi Paul,

Are you new to this forum? Have you been reading it for awhile and just starting to post?

Miloochie
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:45:47 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's Domain name
Message:
I wonder when maharaji registered the domain name Maharaji.org?

He did a rapid about face on the value of the internet. He said in 1996 that 'whatever has a steep incline' (referring to growth of the interent) 'will have a steep downturn'(paraphrasing GMJ). I don't know what he was referring to there. Television? Radio? The electric light? The automobile?

My question is when did he do this about face? Was it after 1997 when he was still speaking out publicly about his negative feelings regarding the web? Or had he registered his domain name while still trying to influence premies to stay off the web? Was it for their own good? Ha ha
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:22:38 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: A Possible Explanation
Message:
Someone from Australia, I don't recall the name, posted a few months ago about an event in 1997 that might have been the event that got Maharaji to change his mind about the internet.

In 1997 there was a program at Amaroo and a story appeared in a Brisbane newspaper reporting it, including talking about the fact that M's plane was worth over $20 million, and that Ross Sutton said that M wasn't part of DLM anymore, implying that all the crazy stuff he did in the 70s was just DLM's fault. The article noted that EV was nothing more than DLM with a name change, and that there was this website called 'ex-premie.org' on which ex-followers of M said that 'their lives had been shattered' by following him. [The article, under 'Kangaroo Hop' is on this website.]

Anyhow, the person who posted said it was the first time most premies heard about the ex-premie website and, that M was livid that mention of it was included in the newspaper article. The poster suggested that at that point M decided that he better get an internet presence, and so he changed his mind, being the pragmatic lord that he is.

Makes sense to me.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:53:23 (EDT)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Maharaji's Domain name
Message:
Zac,
I could be wrong, but I think I heard M being negative about the net even in early 98. Several times he told a story about some guy who told him how great and important the net was in the world and M told him something to the effect of 'Get a life!' He was clearly mocking those who enjoy the net and he strengthened my feeling that the net was probably useless except for educational purposes.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 16:39:06 (EDT)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO
Message:
24th MAY 1997 SEEMS TO BE THE CREATION DATE FOR MAHARAJI.COM and .ORG

Registrant:
Alpen Sun (MAHARAJI4-DOM)
5859 Kanan Road
Agoura, CA 91301
US

Domain Name: MAHARAJI.COM

Administrative Contact:
West, Leroy (LW1352) golwest@IX.NETCOM.COM
800.393.5724
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM
315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052
Billing Contact:
Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM
(805) 371 1817

Record last updated on 03-Nov-98.
Record created on 24-May-97.
Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9
NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12
NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8

Whois Search Results: maharaji.net

Output from whois database:

Registrant:
Jossi Fresco (MAHARAJI6-DOM)
5509 N. Military Trail
Boca Raton, FL 33496
US

Domain Name: MAHARAJI.NET

Administrative Contact:
Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM
(805) 371 1817
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM
315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052
Billing Contact:
Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM
(805) 371 1817

Record last updated on 03-Nov-98.
Record created on 03-Aug-98.
Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9
NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12
NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8

Whois Search Results: maharaji.org

Output from whois database:

Registrant:
Alpen Sun (MAHARAJI5-DOM)
5859 Kanan Road
Agoura, CA 91301
US

Domain Name: MAHARAJI.ORG

Administrative Contact:
West, Leroy (LW1352) golwest@IX.NETCOM.COM
800.393.5724
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Administration, DNS Dns (NDA5) Hostmaster@APPLIEDTHEORY.COM
315-453-2912 (FAX) 315-453-3052
Billing Contact:
Fresco, Jossi (JF5385) jossi@TECHNOLOGIST.COM
(805) 371 1817

Record last updated on 03-Nov-98.
Record created on 24-May-97.
Database last updated on 21-Apr-99 12:19:18 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.28.9
NS2.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 204.168.16.12
NS3.APPLIEDTHEORY.COM 207.127.101.8

Domain Name: MAHARAJI.ORG.UK

Registered For: Reality Communications

Domain Registered By: INS

Registered on 28-Aug-1998.

Record last updated on 09-Sep-1998 by hostmaster@insnet.net.

Domain servers listed in order:

194.205.20.1 194.205.20.1
NS0.INSNET.NET 194.177.160.34
NS1.INSNET.NET 194.177.170.2

Whois Search Results: maharaji.co.uk

Output from whois database:

Domain Name: MAHARAJI.CO.UK

Registered For: Reality Communications

Domain Registered By: INS

Registered on 28-Aug-1998.

Record last updated on 09-Sep-1998 by hostmaster@insnet.net.

Domain servers listed in order:

194.205.21.1 194.205.21.1
NS0.INSNET.NET 194.177.160.34
NS1.INSNET.NET 194.177.170.2

Whois Search Results: maharaji.fr

Output from whois database:

Rights restricted by copyright.
See http://www.ripe.net/db/dbcopyright.html
Tous droits reserves par copyright.
Voir http://www.nic.fr/info/whois/dbcopyright.html

domain: maharaji.fr
descr: ELAN VITAL
descr: 39 RUE DU MONT-CENIS
descr: 75018 PARIS
admin-c: DB1880-RIPE
tech-c: FA156
tech-c: SS1337
zone-c: NFC1-RIPE
nserver: ns.sct.fr
nserver: ns-backup.sct.fr
mnt-by: FR-NIC-MNT
source: RIPE

role: NIC France Contact
address: AFNIC (NIC France), c/o INRIA
address: Domaine de Voluceau BP 105
address: 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX, France
phone: +33 1 39 63 56 82
fax-no: +33 1 39 63 55 34
e-mail: tech@nic.fr
trouble: Information: http://www.nic.fr/
trouble: Questions: mailto:nic@nic.fr
admin-c: AR41
tech-c: AR41
tech-c: PL12-RIPE
tech-c: JP1110-RIPE
tech-c: EM634-RIPE
tech-c: MS1887-RIPE
tech-c: VL229-RIPE
tech-c: PR1249-RIPE
nic-hdl: NFC1-RIPE
mnt-by: FR-NIC-MNT
source: RIPE

person: Dimitri Basiliou
address: ELAN VITAL
address: 39 RUE DU MONT-CENIS
address: 75018 PARIS
phone: +33 1 42190904
fax-no: +33 1 42190904
nic-hdl: DB1880-RIPE
source: RIPE

person: Franck Arnal
address: SCT/World-Net
address: 13 rue de l'Escaut
address: 75019 Paris
phone: +33 1 40 37 90 90
fax-no: +33 1 40 37 90 89
e-mail: Franck.Arnal@worldnet.net
e-mail: admin@worldnet.net
nic-hdl: FA156
source: RIPE

person: Sebastien Socchard
address: SCT/World-Net
address: 11-13, rue de l'Escaut
address: 75019 PARIS
address: FRANCE
phone: +33 1 40 37 90 90
fax-no: +33 1 40 37 90 89
e-mail: seb@worldnet.net
e-mail: socchard@worldnet.net
nic-hdl: SS1337
source: RIPE

Whois Search Results: maharaji.it

Output from whois database:

domain: maharaji.it
x400-domain: c=it; admd=0; prmd=maharaji;
org: Marco Bravura
admin-c: MB4944-RIPE
tech-c: SL40-RIPE
postmaster: AF169-RIPE
zone-c: AF169-RIPE
nserver: 195.62.227.3 dns.ats.it
nserver: 195.62.224.30 dns2.ats.it
remarks: Fully -Managed
mnt-by: ATSLINK-MNT
created: 19981224
changed: andfa@ats.it 19981209
source: IT-NIC

person: Marco Bravura
address: Giudecca 410
address: 30123 Venezia (VE)
phone: +39 544 419623
fax-no: +39 544 419623
e-mail: bravura@linknet.it
nic-hdl: MB4944-RIPE
changed: drago@ats.it 19981209
source: IT-NIC

person: Samuele Landi
address: Via Benedetto Varchi, 59
address: 52100 Arezzo
address: Casella Postale 297 - Arezzo
phone: +39 575 985618
fax-no: +39 575 984268
e-mail: slandi@ats.it
nic-hdl: SL40-RIPE
changed: drago@ats.it 19990421
source: IT-NIC

person: Andrea Falsini
address: Via Benedetto Varchi, 59
address: 52100 Arezzo
address: Casella Postale 297 - Arezzo
phone: +39 575 985619
fax-no: +39 575 984268
e-mail: andfa@ats.it
nic-hdl: AF169-RIPE
changed: andfa@ats.it 19990421
source: IT-NICWhois Search Results: maharaji.ch

domainname: maharaji.ch
domaintype: A
nserver: ns1.appliedtheory.com [204.168.28.9]
nserver: ns2.appliedtheory.com [204.168.16.12]
nserver: ns3.appliedtheory.com [207.127.101.8]
ownertype: O
registered: 981223
changed: 981223
applicant: Amanda Swallow
org-name: PureVoice, LLC
org-address: P.O. Box 1485
org-address: CA
org-zipcode: 91358
org-city: Thousand Oaks
org-country: United States
serialno: 00124300
source: CHDOMREG

adm-name: Jossi Fresco
adm-address: PureVoice, LLC
adm-address: P.O. Box 276342
adm-zipcode: FL 33427
adm-city: Boca Raton
adm-country: United States
adm-phone: +1 561 994 2383
adm-email: jossi@technologist.com

bil-org: NetNames USA
bil-name: Billing Administration
bil-address: 430 West 14th Street, Suite 502
bil-zipcode: NY 10014
bil-city: New York
bil-country: United States
bil-phone: +1 212 627 4599
bil-fax: +1 212 627 5744
bil-email: billing@netnamesusa.com

tec-name: AppliedTheory Communication Inc.
tec-address: 125 Elwood Davis Road
tec-address: NY
tec-zipcode: 13212
tec-city: Syracuse
tec-country: United States
tec-phone: +1 315 453 2912
tec-fax: +1 315 453 3052
tec-email: hostmaster@appliedtheory.com
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 17:57:38 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Thanks stevei
Message:
Apparently the change of mind about the web took place at that time and as far as I remember is congruent with his public remarks. So at least he wasn't saying one thing and planning another. Appreciate you getting that info stevei.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:01:44 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO
Message:
Great work Stevei!

It appears he'll need to blitz now.

Take Care,
Mary M
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:15:40 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO
Message:
Very interesting stuff, and good job. I have no idea where you found this information.

But, I notice that May 24, 1997, is about two months after the ex-premie site got started. Do you think his change of mind had something to do with this site getting started?

Of course, he SHUT DOWN the premie.org site later that year, or early the next year, if I remember correctly.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:32:20 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Domain info
Message:
Domain info is found at the site: 'internic.com'. You go to the site and enter a domain name as if you are interested in purchasing it. It brings up the info or tells you if it is available. I think the current price is $50 for 2 years, and you have to one or two servers to be legit.

M could have dozens of names.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 19:41:31 (EDT)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Domain info
Message:
internic.com only shows up the top domain names and not the international names....
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:06:20 (EDT)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Everybody
Subject: M's Domain.US/EURO
Message:
I'm laughing my head off because soon, big M won't be able to fart, pee or pick his nose without some ex posting the details of his lurid doings... I mean, here is the info on his wedbsite, date and all, there are all the info on his house and helicopter below, the stuff on Amtext, on Dettmers, on his mistress, on the Swiss Foundation, or whatever its name... I'm VERY impressed by the work you guys have been doing... I bet he must be GREEN, that good ol' lordie-lord ! Watch out, Prem Pal, we are going to get you !

Happy (and getting happier) and living in Paris
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:24:51 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Why would he 'dis' the net
Message:
in 1998 when had retained a domain name for a web site in May 97?

I can only guess that he was to busy to notice or the premies did it or he forgot what year it was. It's nice to 'know' the facts.

One neat thing about the web is that when you mentioned reading the Guru Papers a week or so ago I clicked onto Amazon.com and 3 days later it was at my house. So far it is terrific, very readable which surprised me. Later Zac
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:19:46 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: So the exes wouldn't take it!
Message:
Hi Zac,
I am sure M or some premies grabbed the domain names maharaji.org and maharaji.com right after the ex-premie site went on line (in March/April 1997) so WE couldn't use those names. (Good thinking, huh?)
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:30:21 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Maharaji's Domain name -create
Message:
It was created on 24-05-97, all you ever need to do to find out about a site or url is do a 'whois', the ones that are buried sometimes require a little digging. I have whois as a command on my machine if you are windows do a search and there are sites that have a whois you can run.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:29:36 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
I think I do have a serious problem reg denial and guilt!
I've just discovered a very strange thing today reg something that happened
a few days ago.

I'll tell you the whole story.
I'm working as a vet. I'm tatooing pets (when their owners ask for it) # that are
given to me on some special booklets given by the official company keeping the
records of all pets tatooed in France.
A few days ago, I've received a phone call from someone asking me if I knew the owner
of the dog with such and such ID#, because a lost dog had been found with that ID#
and I was the one that had the booklet with that #. They were not 100% sure of the #
because it's sometimes difficult to read the tatoos.

They were saying that the company didn't have
the copy of the ID certificate yet (I send them the certificate's copy when the # is tatooed,
including the name, address and phone # of the owner of the tatooed pet).
Of course this can happen when you've just tatooed a dog, and the dog is lost before
the company gets the copy of the certificate.
So I went and checked my certificates' booklets, and discovered that that precise # wasn't
given out yet, I still had the virgin certificate. I also checked the copies that were not
sent yet (I had one on my desk waiting to be sent, and that was not the one they were looking
for). Then I answered them that I still had the original, and that # was not given out yet.

Then I got a letter yesterday asking me the same question: a dog had been found with that
ID#, I was the one who had the booklet with this #, and asking me again the same question.
I didn't pay too much attention to that letter, still kept it, thinking there was a mistake
somewhere, and that I was not responsible for this.
But still I was thinking a bit about it, how strange the story was, what could have happened, etc
Finally I decided today to re-check: believe it or not, I had a dog tatooed last January
with this #, the booklet was NOT virgin on that #, and the certificate on my desk was precisely that one!

That was a shock for me to discover this today!

What I now think, is that I was unconsciously feeling so guilty (when I've received
the phone call the other day) that I might have done a mistake, that I unconsciously
changed what I actually saw because I was not able to accept the reality of my mistake.

Is this a post-cult syndrome, is this Alzheimer, could I have other reason to
do such things? Am I really sane after all?

Did any of you exes experience that sort of confusing thing?
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:51:43 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
You think your mind played a trick on you or you played a trick on your mind? Maybe it is a simple explanation like the first time you checked you had had too little sleep that day and weren't thinking it all through clearly, got the # wrong, etc???

I wouldn't get too freudian about this. I mean you weren't trying to cover up anything or deceive or manipulate anyone.

As per post-cult syndrome, it exists, no doubt!!

perhaps it manifests in the lies we tell ourselves--'I'm sooooo happy' when I'm not, that kind of thing???? Not to mention the fuzzy thinking about causalities that all us exes no doubt still have. It's good you're thinking about this!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:33:00 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
You think your mind played a trick on you or you played a trick on your mind? Maybe it is a simple explanation like the first time you checked you had had too little sleep that day and weren't thinking it all through clearly, got the # wrong, etc???

I was perfectly clear on that day, I remember I've really carefully checked. I also know that guilt is something I've been a lot into.

I wouldn't get too freudian about this. I mean you weren't trying to cover up anything or deceive or manipulate anyone.

You're right. But I know that mind tricks are not happening without any good reasons. Calling this a mind's trick is not sufficient for me. Not that I'm into trying to find some explanation for everything. That was not a simple innocent mistake for me.

OK, maybe it's just something stupid that happens once in a while.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:35:54 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
JM:

I think leaving a cult is very stressful, very emotional and can take a lot of mental energy to sort out what is happening. Anyone who is under that kind of stress, in addition to all the other stresses involved in living our lives, can make errors. I mean every human being makes mistakes, and in times of stress we are likely to make more of them.

One thing you said rings true for me. After I left the cult, I was pretty devestated, angry, and had all kinds of emotions both positive and difficult. But I did find that if I made a mistake, say in my job, I would be particularly affected by it. I think I carried over from the cult this idea that we are supposed to be perfect, or as M said, 'impeccable,' and that any mistake is a reflection of my lack of consciousness, being in my mind, and the like. It took awhile, but that gradually went away.

I began to realize that I am entitled to make mistakes, that everyone does, and those stupid expectations were just cult programming, and something I didn't want in my life. They are stupid and destructive.

So, like Helen said, don't make too much of something like this. You probably just made a human error. We all do it.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 15:51:33 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: mone
To: JW
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
This kind of scramble is a familiar to me. Over the past few months, three other people have told me of the same thing.

My own was that I was looking at the blue sky and calling it red. - figuratively speaking. I also had extensive arguements and materieal proof to support what I was saying- and I believed them.
Then in one split second I saw through the virtual reality I had constructed- and could only stand with my mouth open at what I had done.

But I dont know if it is all down to post cult. The other people that it happened to were just plain old people.

Now I regard it as a kind of impressionistic dyslexic phenomenon.

But instead of switching right and left numbers on the horizontal like when reading a telephone number- it goes the other way- Vertical. So the mental reality slips gears and superimposes over a dreamy or fantasy. The added ingredient of a bit of pressure - )responsibility/social) means that I open my mouth and Commit to it all- thereby amplifying the quorundum!

Or it was those imps.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 06:32:48 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Thanks JW, so true
Message:
But I did find that if I made a mistake, say in my job, I would be particularly affected by it. I think I carried over from the cult this idea that we are supposed to be perfect, or as M said, 'impeccable,' and that any mistake is a reflection of my lack of consciousness, being in my mind, and the like. It took awhile, but that gradually went away.

This little incident that happened to me is typical of my actual reaction to it. I now think I have a tendancy to react this way because of a lack of trust in myself. I did a mistake, like everybody does at times.

But years of 'service' in DLM/EV and friendship/relation with 'dedicated premies' takes you to a place where you don't have much trust left in yourself anymore.

M's has been mocking me so much, EV/DLM responsible have been so uncaring with me (and everybody else), I've been involved in so much useless and pointless 'big services' and stuff, that I've ended up unconsciously wondering if I still was able to do something good and meaningful myself, and having normal relationships with 'normal' people.

The facts proved that I am able to work well, improve my skills and my job, that I can have good friendships and relationship, that I am able to be attentionate, loving and careful without me being a zombie going back to my 'inner' being every five minute.

But when some incidents like this one (or Jim's parrots story- what a laugh) happen, I still have a tendancy to go back to this lack of trust and stressed attitude. I guess it's going to slowly disappear, like you say.

I began to realize that I am entitled to make mistakes, that everyone does, and those stupid expectations were just cult programming, and something I didn't want in my life. They are stupid and destructive.

You really have to be out of the cult behaviour and habits to start realizing how much it's been destructive. In the beginning you're merely disturbed and wondering what happened to you and how you're going to recover from this mess. Then you slowly start to realize how stupid it was when you're back to normal feelings and behaviours.
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 11:59:26 (EDT)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks JM, so true
Message:
Jean-Michel,

I saw a number of parts in your last post that I was going to quote, until I found that the whole thing rang true for me.

--------

Hey, I gotta good one for you. True story:

Christmas, 1996. I decide to buy my Sister and Brother-in-law a coffee grinder and bags of gourmet coffee.

They love it.

Christmas, 1997. I decide to buy my Sister and Brother-in-law a coffee grinder and bags of gourmet coffee.

They now know I have periodic 'mush-for-brains.'

Miloochie
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:17:41 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: J-M
Subject: Male Menopause
Message:
Dear J-M,

It's your age - nothing to do with being an ex-premie ( in my 50 year old humble opinion). My 50 plus next door neighbour gave her daughter the same wedding present twice. Once for her shower and once for her wedding. She felt silly too but like you she'll get over it when she forgets all about it!

Although I must say I was a lot more 'jumblely' before I decided to leave m. I was feeling very nervous all the time and thought it was menopause - now I've left I think it was me being affected by m in a very negative way. Now I feel a lot clearer. 'I can see clearly now the rain has come - I can see obstacles in my way. It's gonna be a bright, bright sun shiney day!'
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 00:20:46 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: J-M
Subject: Male Menopause
Message:
Whoops, I've done it again - 'come' should be 'gone' menopause or what?
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Date: Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 09:05:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Liz
Subject: I can see clearly now Liz
Message:
Dear Liz,
Hey, did you put those lyrics at the bottom of your post because it was a song you use to sing as a premie?

'I can see clearly now the rain has come - I can see obstacles in my way. It's gonna be a bright, bright sun shiney day!'

I remember singing that song or the band singing that song in Miami!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 00:54:02 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: I can see clearly now Liz
Message:
It's a strange thing, Robyn, ironic even, that I see clearer now, love dearer, feel nearer to G.O.D. day by day.

All those tempting songs about those delicious feelings are nothing compared to the real experience of happiness. I'm experiencing more clarity from stopping practicing. I do things I could never do before because I was brain-washed into believing that all I had to do was practice. It got to the point I just couldn't anymore. Eat you heart out!

Yes, I did sing 'I can see clearer now at programmes.' It was true at the time but as I've mentioned before like many other premies, when I returned home I just clouded over. Now I'm realizing home is where the heart is.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 18:28:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Post-cult syndrome?
Message:
Dear JM,
I know you are a recent ex and I am not but I live day to day wondering if something I remember is real or a dream that seems real and I forget things all the time. I just chalk it up to genes, my dad is the same way. Maybe it is pre-Alzheimers and it is unnerving sometimes but I do not think, in my case that it has anything to do with the cult!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:01:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: That happened to me too!
Message:
JM,

I can't believe this. The exact same thing happened to me not more than a month ago. Only in this case it was parrots. I was tatooing parrots for the central registry here. You'd be surprised how few parrots are properly tatooed. In Canada that's a government responsibility and, after years of whining, lobbying and petitioning like crazy, we've finally got the proper funding to do the job right.

Anyway, when the weather warmed up in March (Victoria -- balmiest part of Canada!)we took our operation outside on one particularly warm Sunday afternoon. Parrots bleed more than most people'd ever expect and when they're not bleeding they're making parrot poo poo's all over the place, especially when they're nervous and tired which is exactly how they get when you've been chasing them around for an hour or so with a burning tatoo needle. You have to wait for them to get really tired and then snag them with a parrot cord. By that time, though, they've usually bled and poohed all over and we're not given all that much money for clean-up. Best to take it outside.

So that's what we did. We're outside doing the parrots when my supervisor points out that the one he's just wrestled off its perch is already marked. I go over and sure enough, there it is, the mark of the beast, 860000545 (we exhausted the 666 series back in the seventies).

'But that's impossible,' I said. 'We've never seen this parrot before. Someone else must have done this one but that doesn't work because we're the only one with the contract and, besides, who else would know what numbers we were into at that time.'

'Look, Jim' said my supervisor 'maybe you did indeed do this one last week and just don't remember.'

I hit him in the mouth. First time I've done anything like that in such a long time but, well, I didn't know what else to say. Plus, I was starting to get nervous and tired myself, never mind the fucking parrots. Besides they wouldn't shut up -- the parrots -- and that was bugging me too. Anyway, I hit him.

Just then my mother showed up.

'Jim, honey, why are you doing that parrot again, dear?'

'What?' I asked, already feeling that sick feeling one gets when one's in one's mind and it isn't good. 'What do you mean? I've never seen this bird.' For some reason I was getting so angry I almost hit her too. But I didn't; I just shoved her back a bit. Not hard, this is my mother I'm talking about.

'No, silly, you did! This morning. Don't you remember?'

I stopped my advance and gave myself a good think. Yes, I realized, I had done this parrot! I did him just before we broke for lunch (but after we'd started our second bottle.) So, I had done him, the tattoo was mine. If anyone needs any further proof that this Knowledge isn't all it's cracked up to be, there it is.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 21:31:55 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Too Funny!
Message:
Your best post ever! Drek Hall of Fame with Jean-Micheals original
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:40 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: You bet! ***Best***
Message:
Best of the Forum

Actually, I have seen where scientists can tag bees with barcodes and read them on the fly.

Now, if I can just find that sperm that got away.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 23:13:30 (EDT)
From: Miloochie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Crying with laughter (nt)
Message:
a;lskdj
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 04:45:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No need to massacre them
Message:
Hi Jim,

Next time, catch your parrots by the neck, and hold them tight under your left arm whilst you tattoo them with your right hand. They might pee and poo on your pants, but who cares.

Thanks for the laugh.

I've called all the persons involved in my little story.

The guy who's found the dog, the company keeping the records of ID#, they don't give a shit, they don't care!

As for the owner of the dog I've tattooed: she's disappeared.

Like one of them said, only those who've never done anything never did any mistake.

So, who cares?

Beside this, my girlfriend she did a big big big boo boo at her job yesterday. He company's lost a lot of money because of her mistake, and they don't care that much either, cause she's one of their best employees...

At least I have no boss to be pissed with me anymore. And if the gooroo is extremely pissed, I love it. I don't doubt he is, specially these days when all his companies' names are unveiled one by one. I don't know how he's going to hide now. Very likely staying in India and Nepal...
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:50:45 (EDT)
From: Your Mum
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, Honey
Message:
I've told you a number of times, dear, you need to get your eyes checked. We don't have parrots in Canada. They live in places like South America and Africa, remember? Those were pigeons you were chasing. You know, rats with wings. This is just like that last time when you spent three months on that snipe hunt. You are so trusting, dear. First it was the cult, and then these practical jokes you fall for. By the way, did you get your vacinations?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 11:45:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: My serious answer
Message:
JM,

Sometimes I worry about my brain too. I can at times do some really dumb things and, when I do, I sometimes wonder if my mind, which I was in the habit of trying to slip out of gear for a minimum of an hour in the morning and an hour at night, doesn't still throw its own clutch out of habit. I don't know the answer but it's a good, somewhat scary, question. Thanks for reminding me. (??)
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:38:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Mind working in automatic
Message:
Is this actually the problem?

Could very well be so. This is very scary, maybe one of the cause of the dreams I used to have for a while, like fear of becoming insane, making the most stupid things I don't want to do, making the worst possible mistakes, etc.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:53:28 (EDT)
From: Your Mum
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, Honey
Message:
Jim honey, it's not the meditation, it's all the drugs. Remember to get your vaccinations, dear.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 12:59:38 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Dog IDs
Message:
The big thing here in the States is to get a small computer chip placed under your dog's skin (completely painless by the way and takes about 15 seconds to inplant) and then if the dog gets lost they can be 'scanned' just like at the Supermarket and the SPCA or the Animal Control people can tell who owns the dog, even if the dog tags have been lost.

My dog has one, and the only thing I've noticed is that he sets off the burglar alarm when he gets into my car.:)

By the way, JM, can you still take your dog into a restaurant in France? And do people still abandon their dogs all over Paris in August when everybody goes on vacation? I imagine those people don't get their dogs tatooed!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:11:13 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Where are m's dogs?
Message:
The big thing here in the States is to get a small computer chip placed under your dog's skin (completely painless by the way and takes about 15 seconds to inplant) and then if the dog gets lost they can be 'scanned' just like at the Supermarket and the SPCA or the Animal Control people can tell who owns the dog, even if the dog tags have been lost.
My dog has one, and the only thing I've noticed is that he sets off the burglar alarm when he gets into my car.:)


They're going to start testing the system in France, I've just received today an invitation for this.

By the way, JM, can you still take your dog into a restaurant in France?

Some restaurants allow them, some don't, like for hotels. You have to check when you make your reservation.

And do people still abandon their dogs all over Paris in August when everybody goes on vacation? I imagine those people don't get their dogs tatooed!

Some do, too many of them, it's a big thing every year, but not 1000s of them. Many people buy pets because their children want them as gifts, and finally discover they're a problem. M used to buy plenty of them for his kids, and give them away to premies in Malibu. I hope he got them tattooed. I can't imagine the whole scenario.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:41:45 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: katie@ex-premie.org
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: post-post-cult syndrome
Message:
Hi Jean-Michel -
I had a similar experience two years ago and I'd been out of the cult for 20 years. Here's what happened: I found a Maharaji video lying on one of the desks at the place where I worked. I hadn't thought about or heard about Maharaji in YEARS - I didn't even know he was still around - and it was so incongruous (didn't fit the context) that I just picked it up and put it back down, and blanked the whole episode from my mind like it never happened. It was only when I went home that night that I realized what I'd actually seen - boy did that freak me out! Turns out one of the people I worked with was a premie who was bringing in introductory videos for people to watch.

I do think I did this because the reality was so weird that I just couldn't put the pieces together. But my mind was still processing it on an unconscious level, so I did remember what happened later. It sounds like your mind did the same thing.

Take care,
Katie

P.S. I was somewhat concerned by what you said about guilt. Do you really mean guilt, or rather feelings of inadequacy like JW described? I can relate to both of those feelings very much, by the way!
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:45:09 (EDT)
From: Parrot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: tattooed mind
Message:
I remember what you did to me, and honey, you're the best.

It happens to me too. Once I was flying along and I forgot where I was going and when I looked down... well you think your lapses scare you!! Maybe we're just getting old.
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Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 at 00:22:25 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: post-post-cult syndrome
Message:
JM,
If I were you, I would only worry about it if it happens a lot. Or perhaps if it happens any time where you it seriously interferes with your safety or someone elses (including a pet, I suppose).
Otherwise, forget about your forget abouts. It's normal enough kind of stuff even if it's kind of hot pink instead of gray.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 11:58:21 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: No Golden Toilets ??????
Message:
This just in....This just in...This just in....

Could it be true that the Tax Assessor couldn't find the bathrooms at the divine residence of Guru Maharaji owned by SEVA Corporation of America dba Anacapa View Estates, Malibu?

Mon dieu! Does the lard use an outhouse?

County: LOS ANGELES
Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-011-051
Assessed Value (Land): $244,992
Assesed Value (Buildings): $2,639,870
Assessed Value (Total): $2,884,862
Improvement: 91%
Lot Size: A477.00
Year Built: 1958
Year Renovated: 1968
Number of Bathrooms: 0
Number of Half Baths: 0
Building/Living Area: 4,857
Tract: 8004.02
Land Use: SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE
Map ID: 111-D4
Sales Amount: $23,000
Transfer Date: 05-31-1978
Tax Rate Area: 8635
Comments: Assessment Year 1996
Comments: County Use - 0100
Comments: Absentee Owner
Lot Area: 20,778,120
Type of Sale: FULL CONSIDERATION
Property Address: 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR
MALIBU, CA 90265

Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264
Name: SEVA CORPORATION OF AMERICA & ]A
Name Type: Absentee Owner
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 12:01:16 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: Would helipad suffice?
Message:
Hi Rahab,

Do you think he uses his helipad for certain bodily functions?

I know the corporation took care of the permits for him!

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 1997
a. Application No. 4-97-55 (Seva dba Anacapa View Estates, Malibu) Application of Seva Corporation of America dba Anacapa View Estates for two lot line adjustments of 7 lots and one re-division of 4 acres, under common ownership, at 5865 South Rambla Del Orto, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V)
[APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS]

Helipad:
98031119-0*Malibu City of *Pacific Ocean
*Anacapa View Estates CUP 98-002
*Ara Mihranian *(310)456-2489 * 4/20/98
Continue use of exist residential helipad at
5865 S Rambla del Oro, Malibu vic PCH
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:18:55 (EDT)
From: Roger Taxman Drek
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: Devil is in the details
Message:
Ah, but this 1996 assessment appears to be on the old house before the Richter scale 9 knockdown rebuild.

So, if the value of the old house was $2,639,870 (91% rebuilt in 1968) then our estimates of $10+ million on the new house is probably pretty good.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:48:04 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Roger Taxman Drek
Subject: Devil is in the details
Message:
Aye!

Sheva's been busy:

SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991.

County: LOS ANGELES
Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-006-039
Assessed Value (Land): $1,018,640
Assessed Value (Total): $1,018,640
Land Use: RESIDENTIAL LOT
Transfer Date: 03-26-1991
Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264
Name: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA
Name Type: Owner

SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991.

SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 03-26-1991.

SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was purchased on 12-29-1995.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:49:21 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: Devil is in the details
Message:
State ID Number: 97058824-0000
Type: CORPORATION
Date Started 06- -1997

Name: TEXT MART
Address: 2436 E CHAPMAN AVE FULLERTON
FULLERTON
CA
92631
Tax Area and Code: FULLERTON-30013
Title: Owner

Name: AMTEXT INC
SIC Codes: STATIONERY AND BOOK STORES
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:21:32 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: GEEZ
Message:
SEVA CORP OF AMERICA owns property located in CA which was
purchased on 03-26-1991.

County: LOS ANGELES
Assessors Parcel Number: 4470-006-039
Assessed Value (Land): $1,018,640
Assessed Value (Total): $1,018,640
Land Use: RESIDENTIAL LOT
Transfer Date: 03-26-1991
Mailing Address: PO BOX 4029 MALIBU CA 90264
Name: SEVA CORP OF AMERICA
Name Type: Owner


I bet this is the 'new' residence, the plans of which are on this website. I understand that it was built in 1992, so that makes sense. Amazing that Seva apparently owns 'the Residence' and M doesn't own it in his own name. I'm not surprised. I bet he just owns virtually all the stock in SEVA, along with Marolyn and his kids (maybe).
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:21:42 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Roger Taxman Drek
Subject: Lord of the Flies
Message:
Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1660203
Registration Mark(N-Num): N-103PR
Last Registration Activ.: 08-20-1997
Latest Registration Cert: 02-29-1984
Aircraft Manufacturer: BURKHART GROB
Aircraft Model and Ser.: G 103 TWIN II
Year: 1984
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 700 POUNDS
Number of Seats: 2
Engine Manufacturer: NONE
Model Name: NONE
FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN
Registration Type: CORPORATION
Aircraft Type: GLIDER
Airworthiness: STANDARD
Engine Type: NO ENGINE
Name: SEVA CORP
Address: PO BOX 1437
THOUSAND OAKS CA
91358

Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1181522
Registration Mark(N-Num): N-10HA
Last Registration Activ.: 07-16-1997
Latest Registration Cert: 12-28-1982
Aircraft Manufacturer: BELL
Aircraft Model and Ser.: 206L
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 3000 POUNDS
Average Cruising Speed: 112 M.P.H.
Number of Seats: 5
FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN
Registration Type: CORPORATION
Aircraft Type: ROTOCRAFT
Airworthiness: STANDARD
Name: SEVA CORPORATION
Address: PO BOX 4029
MALIBU CA
90264
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 14:27:32 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: Roger
Subject: Seva/Execucorp etal
Message:
Last Updated: 04-20-1999 (Updated on a WEEKLY basis)
Filed: SECRETARY OF STATE

State ID Number: 00858497
Type: LEGAL
Status: ACTIVE
Good Standing Status: ONLY AVAILABLE DIRECTLY FROM SECRETARY OF STATE.
Date of Filing 01-05-1978
State of Filing NEBRASKA
Name: SEVA CORPORATION OF AMERICA
Mailing Address: P O BOX 1437
THOUSAND OAKS, CA 91358

Duration: PERPETUAL
Title: PRESIDENT
Name: MARY E HOLLE
Address: 516 N. PENNSFIELD PLACE, SUITE 108
THOUSAND OAKS
91360
CA
Title: REGISTERED AGENT
Agent Name: JOHN K BALE
Address: 516 N. PENNSFIELD PLACE, SUITE 108
91360
THOUSAND OAKS

State ID Number: 01811537
Type: LEGAL
Status: ACTIVE
Good Standing Status: ONLY AVAILABLE DIRECTLY FROM SECRETARY OF STATE.
Date of Filing 11-22-1991
State of Filing DELAWARE
Name: EXECUCORP, INC. WHICH WILL DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA AS DELAWARE EXECUCORP, INC.
Mailing Address: PO BOX 1437
THOUSAND OAKS, CA 91358

Duration: PERPETUAL
Title: PRESIDENT
Name: JOHN K BALE
Address: 516 N PENNSFIELD PLACE STE 108
THOUSAND OAKS
91360
CA
Title: REGISTERED AGENT
Agent Name: JOHN K BALE
Address: 516 N PENNSFIELD PLACE STE 108
91360
THOUSAND OAKS
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:28:14 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: Seva/Execucorp etal
Message:
Okay, so SEVA Corp owns 'the residence' as well as 'the helicopter' which apparently M lands on his own helipad as much as Malibu will let him.

And my old friend Mary Holle is the PRESIDENT of SEVA. Mary Holle from Des Moines, Iowa. Who would have thought it!
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:26:25 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: Lord of the Flies
Message:
Manufacturer Serial Num.: 1181522
Registration Mark(N-Num): N-10HA
Last Registration Activ.: 07-16-1997
Latest Registration Cert: 12-28-1982
Aircraft Manufacturer: BELL
Aircraft Model and Ser.: 206L
Maximum Take-Off Weight: 3000 POUNDS
Average Cruising Speed: 112 M.P.H.
Number of Seats: 5
FAA Region of Registrat.: WESTERN
Registration Type: CORPORATION
Aircraft Type: ROTOCRAFT
Airworthiness: STANDARD
Name: SEVA CORPORATION
Address: PO BOX 4029
MALIBU CA
90264


Am I correct that this is a helicopter? So SEVA owns this too, as well as a 'glider.'
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:35:08 (EDT)
From: Roger Lindberg Drek
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: it's for propagation, come on!
Message:
Maharaji needs that glider for stealth propagation efforts under the cover of darkness.

You are such loosers.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:47:55 (EDT)
From: Rocket Woman
Email: None
To: Roger Lindberg Drek
Subject: A Blimp!
Message:
Com'n Roger Lindberg,

Everybody knows he's got a bimbo or two he uses for propagation.

Oops... did I say bimbo? I meant BLIMP!

A BLIMP for the Master Blimp.
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:36:32 (EDT)
From: Rahab
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Twirly Bird
Message:
Correct JW

This is the Twirly Bird owned by SEVA for Mary to fly to Des Moines... I presume.

Rahab
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 20:44:14 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rahab
Subject: Twirly Bird
Message:
Rehab:

Thanks for all this great information. Please keep it coming.

Just a note:

I received knowledge in the same knowledge session as Mary Holle and then I lived in a premie house with her right after. Then, we lived in the same ashram in San Antonio (aka COLL). Later, when I was at IHQ she was one of premies who did 'communications' with all the communities. I think at one point she split the ashram with one of the brothers in Miami, but I'm not sure what happened after that.

I always liked Mary, she's a nice person. I think it's sad, however, that she is still involved to the extent she is. Maybe in her exaulted position, she's having a good time, who knows?

Mary has a brother David who was a DLM accountant for awhile. I saw that he had posted on enjoyinglife and lives someplace in New York. David wasn't quite as friendly as her sister, if I recall.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:55:30 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Not sure getting the point
Message:
According to what I've recently read in these various posts reg
ownership of m's stuff, and various companies managing some businesses linked to DLM/EV, it looks like a dozen of pams are owning the whole stuff.

What's also very likely is that the guys are straw men, otherwise m & his family would own the whole stuff themselves. Or do they own the shares themselves?

So, what would happen if IRS sticks it's nose in all these businesses? I guess these pams will have a hard time explaining how and why they got 'gifts' that were directed to m to own these properties themselves.

I this legal (not speaking of ethics) in the US?

What is Mr Rawat actually hiding to need all these decoys?

Isn't it extremely suspicious, and going to attract IRS's curiosity more than if m himself would have owned the whole thing?

What is the logic behind this?

I assume these guys are having meeting after meeting and endless phone calls with Alvaro and Virgil (poor guy, I really sympathize with you - don't forget giving me a call next time you're in Paris, we'll go out and check some good wine if you don't call me the minute before you leave).

How did they ever believe that none of this would become public one day or the other? Do they believe in divine protection?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 13:56:05 (EDT)
From: Irish Nanny
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Corporate Elves
Message:
Hi JM,

Well, to be sure, there's probably some scramblin goin on in LOTU Land. Don't ye trouble y'erself about their efforts. The Dettmers, and Sevas have their own little elves to sweat the details:

NUM: F98000003524 ST:DE ACTIVE/FOREIGN PROF FLD: 06/22/1998
LAST: NAME CHANGE AMENDMENT FLD: 07/02/1998
FEI#: APPLIED FOR
NAME : DETTMERS INDUSTRIES, INC.
NH: 1
PRINCIPAL: 100 WILSHIRE BLVD., SUITE 940
ADDRESS SANTA MONICA, CA 90401
RA NAME : C T CORPORATION SYSTEM
RA ADDR : 1200 SOUTH PINE ISLAND ROAD
PLANTATION, FL 33324 US

Corporation Elves

And for all ye former DECA slaves ye'll be glad to know that y'er former slave master is a tad kinder to his employees in the nineties:

Michael's Team Approach
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 16:44:51 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Not sure getting the point
Message:
it looks like a dozen of pams are owning the whole stuff....Or do they own the shares themselves?

JM, from what we have seen, it isn't clear who actually owns the property. They appeared to be owned by corporations, with PAMS being the officers of the corporations, but we don't know who actually owns the stock in those corporations. I would be M and his immediate family owns them. I think the corporate structures just hide ownership and also might help protect his assets from liability.

Is this legal (not speaking of ethics) in the US?

We don't know enough to know. There is nothing illegal for someon to set up a corporation to hold property and then just own all the shares. It does, hide ownership from the general public, however.

What is the logic behind this?

I think to hide ownership, to possibly try to protect the assets from being exposed if M got sued, and maybe for tax reasons.
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 18:13:24 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: So lame!
Message:
How do they think that kind of lame 'protection' would resist serious investigation?

I guess they don't have ANY protection anymore, if they ever had one! Right?
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Date: Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 21:55:02 (EDT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: petebear@ozemail.com.au
To: Everyone
Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious
Message:
Still chewing on a book I finished called 'Searching for memory' by Daniel l. Schacter - Basic Books 1996.

Amongst other issues raised in the book is the aspect of what he terms implicit memory. As he goes on to build his case with well documented research, much of which is his as he is one of the leading researchers in the field, I began to find a useful, let us say mundane way of appreciating 'spirit and unconscious'.

In essence he points to parts of the brain where there is a type of memory that is not conscious in the normal manner (other examples are the memory of how to ride a bike, drive a car etc many of which are non-conscious)which he call implicit memory. As I kept reading I was both relieved (as somewhat of an scientist type (by training), or 'show me' type as a sceptic) and horrified (the agnostic aspects of me - or perhaps the childhood longing for larger ans more purposeful answers aspect of me) that he was building a quite decent picture of many of the feelings, sensations, effects, affects that occur in 'spiritual' groups.

I recomment it to other - it is highly readible with great examples of real people - a bit like Oliver Saks.

This is not a book about 'mind' - it is really following the biological, physical and looking at memory and how we view the world.

Any recommendations along a similar vein out there?

Cheer

Peter Howie
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 09:31:24 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious
Message:
Sounds like a great book, if it's like Oliver Sachs I'm sure it's very readable too--not too highly technical??? There are many books suggested here on the forum, I'm sure you'll get quite a list going if you hang out here a bit.
Cheers
Helen
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Date: Thurs, Apr 22, 1999 at 13:36:15 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious
Message:
As I kept reading I was both relieved (as somewhat of an scientist type (by training), or 'show me' type as a sceptic) and horrified (the agnostic aspects of me - or perhaps the childhood longing for larger ans more purposeful answers aspect of me) that he was building a quite decent picture of many of the feelings, sensations, effects, affects that occur in 'spiritual' groups.

Hi Peter. Without going into too much detail, could you elaborate on how he does this? I've done a fair amount of reading on brain study myself but I haven't come across much that I would say builds a picture of what occurs in spiritual groups. I'm assuming 'implicit' memory (a term I'm not familiar with) would be behind things we do without conscious effort like walking, stepping on the brake pedal, turning toward loud noises, etc. But I don't see a connection between that and what occurs in spiritual groups. What is it that happens in implicit memory that you think builds this picture?
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Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 14:17:29 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Memory, spirit and unconscious
Message:
Rudolf Stiener wrote a book called Atlantian Memory or Cosmic Memory- havent read it but have heard it goes into unconscious memory of our spiritual developement during pre/Atlantean times.
--But Stiener pits himself against mainstream scientific thinking by advocating developing spiritualized thinking. Something he calls Spiritual Science.

It makes sense that M would be exploiting our spiritual mamory by making a hybrid out of Indian/Hindu/new age- and then serving it up on a golden plate as Simple seasoned with co-dependance.

I feel like I have been through boot comp for 2000.
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