Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 47

From: May 12, 1999

To: May 23, 1999

Page: 1 Of: 5



noone -:- nothing -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:27:16 (EDT)
__barney -:- nothing, but well said indeed! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:23:19 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- nothing -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:30:44 (EDT)
____barney -:- just overclock your board -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:43:23 (EDT)
______Runamok -:- overbored this clock -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 04:29:17 (EDT)
________barney -:- sad, but true -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:12:10 (EDT)
________Mary M -:- overbored this clock -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 19:08:00 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- just overclock your board -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 07:57:17 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Very funny, Steven -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:29:53 (EDT)
____Mike -:- I'm confused -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:07:16 (EDT)
__BOJ -:- nothing -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:36:27 (EDT)
____JB -:- Welcome to the Vomitorium -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:43:46 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Boj -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:09:13 (EDT)
__Tami R -:- yu tel them -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:57:52 (EDT)

Liz -:- Chucky Cheese -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:26:56 (EDT)
__barney -:- Conan the Barbarian -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:47:34 (EDT)
____Jethro -:- The Snake Satguru -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:30:33 (EDT)
__Helen -:- Chucky Cheese -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:36:28 (EDT)

Zac -:- One of my favorite MJ quotes -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:43:34 (EDT)
__pinga -:- One of my favorite MJ quotes -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:21:19 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Trace Route -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:10:35 (EDT)
______barney -:- Trace Route - purpose? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:18:39 (EDT)
________pinga -:- Trace Route - purpose? -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:05:19 (EDT)
__________Mary M -:- Trace Route - purpose? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:23:48 (EDT)
________barney -:- Trace Route - purpose? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 02:00:46 (EDT)
________barney -:- Trace Route - purpose? -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 02:05:25 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- Trace Route -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:38:50 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Ah man -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:35:26 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Maybe he needs viagra now -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:36:18 (EDT)
____Zac -:- Maybe he needs viagra now -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 21:22:50 (EDT)
______Gail -:- The only infinite thing seems -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:18:36 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Some of my favorite MJ quotes -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 13:03:05 (EDT)

Jim -:- saccarine -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:10:47 (EDT)
__gregg -:- saccarine -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:38:04 (EDT)
__Bill Cooper -:- saccarine -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:39:20 (EDT)

barney -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:57:35 (EDT)
__Gail -:- MJ should be nervous-- -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:23:07 (EDT)
__Liz -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:30:13 (EDT)
____barney -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:59:01 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- my darshan dream 2 -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:45:41 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- Liz -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:41:23 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:37:55 (EDT)
____Sir Dave -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:53:03 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:35:56 (EDT)
________Roger E. Drek -:- wait, you're under contract -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:53:10 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- wait, you're under contract -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:39:42 (EDT)
____________Roger E. Drek -:- think big, really big! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:13:10 (EDT)
______________Robyn -:- think big, really big! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:29:56 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:58:21 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:37:39 (EDT)
______Bill Cooper -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:05:06 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- my darshan dream -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:45:57 (EDT)
__Nim -:- I had a dream too! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:23:36 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- I had a dream too! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:38:24 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- I had a dream too! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:59:28 (EDT)
______Diz -:- All too much? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 20:22:03 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- All too much? -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:47:22 (EDT)
__Tami R -:- my darshan dream -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:09:21 (EDT)
____Pauline Premie -:- my darshan dream -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 18:56:52 (EDT)
______Liz -:- my darshan dream -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 00:23:55 (EDT)
________Gail -:- my darshan dream--today -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 10:57:20 (EDT)
__________barney -:- last night's darshan dream -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 16:29:46 (EDT)
____________Helen -:- last night's darshan dream -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 08:13:56 (EDT)
______________barney -:- yes, quite real -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:24:39 (EDT)
________________Rob -:- Kissimmee -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:32:01 (EDT)
__________________Gail -:- Kissimmee -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:34:12 (EDT)
____________________Rob -:- Kissimmee -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:27:40 (EDT)
______________________Gail -:- Kissimmee 1979 was brutal -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:22:56 (EDT)

The All Seeing One -:- What Really Happened -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:02:49 (EDT)
__Mike -:- What Really Happened -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:22:49 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Really, Mike? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:22:11 (EDT)
______Mike -:- Really, Mike? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:54:32 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- Really, Mike? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:40:05 (EDT)
__________Mickey the Pharisee -:- I confess, it was me (NT) -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:29:57 (EDT)
____________Bill Cooper -:- I confess, it was me (NT) -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:54:17 (EDT)
__Your Eye Doctor -:- Time to have that one big eye -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:06:48 (EDT)

AJW -:- When Your Guru Sues You. -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 04:19:51 (EDT)
__RT -:- When Your Guru Sues You 2 -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 08:26:10 (EDT)
____Shp -:- If Kabir lived now.... -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 08:42:59 (EDT)
______I'm getting ready to... -:- E X P L O D E ! ! ! ! -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:12:42 (EDT)
________KB -:- Shear. -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 13:07:19 (EDT)
__________Shp -:- No drug use here. (nt) -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:09:34 (EDT)
______RT -:- If Kabir evolved... -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:22:35 (EDT)
________RT -:- If Kabir evolved... -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:46:09 (EDT)
__________KB -:- Thanks RT-(nt) -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:12:47 (EDT)
______Barf -:- If Kabir lived now.... -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:04:30 (EDT)
________Hey, AJW, this book is -:- great! here's a link. -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:36:42 (EDT)
__________Gerry -:- bass-ackwards -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:49:44 (EDT)
____________Jerry -:- bass-ackwards -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:51:52 (EDT)
________Gail -:- If Kabir lived now.... -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 17:24:13 (EDT)
__Mc -:- When Your Guru Sues You. -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:39:32 (EDT)
____Diz -:- When Your Guru Sues You. -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:45:13 (EDT)
______RT -:- Guru Soup -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 11:13:32 (EDT)
________Rob -:- Guru Soup -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 13:55:22 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Guru Soup -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:48:37 (EDT)
____________Rob -:- Guru Soup -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 21:13:22 (EDT)
______________RT -:- Guru Soup -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 22:22:59 (EDT)

Jim -:- Ok, Shp, let's start fresh -:- Wed, May 19, 1999 at 22:38:22 (EDT)
__KB -:- He is not capable -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:14:27 (EDT)
____Shp -:- Beg yer pardon? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:31:52 (EDT)
__Magnificent Martian -:- Ok, Shp, let's start fresh -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:23:58 (EDT)
____Shp -:- MM, can you come down a little -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:35:30 (EDT)
______MM -:- Shp, can you get off it? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:31:19 (EDT)
__Shp -:- Ok, Jim -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:30:19 (EDT)
____Jim -:- That's inconsistent -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 09:01:52 (EDT)
______cp -:- hey jim -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:21:41 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Good thinking, cp -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:37:33 (EDT)
__________Shp -:- The word was -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:27:42 (EDT)
__________cp -:- Good thinking, cp -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 23:34:04 (EDT)
______Shp -:- Comments -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:23:41 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Time to come clean maybe? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:28:21 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- I can't believe it .. almost -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:45:06 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- I sent him one too -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:30:14 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- Who Is M to you? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:48:45 (EDT)
__Government Inspector -:- You call this fresh? -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:33:58 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Read the manual -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:47:27 (EDT)
______Government Inspector -:- Roll your manual up real nice -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:26:27 (EDT)
________Jim -:- That's funny -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:51:17 (EDT)
__________Mel Bourne -:- Just for the record, Jim..... -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:58:56 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- Sorry, Mel -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:21:45 (EDT)
____Sandra -:- You call this fresh? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:19:10 (EDT)
______Mike -:- You call this fresh? -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:02:32 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Maharaji's date rape drug -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 22:06:11 (EDT)
________CS -:- Once upon a time... -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:45:36 (EDT)
__________barney -:- wishful cult thinking -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:01:45 (EDT)
____________CS -:- wishful thinking is good -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:29:38 (EDT)
______________barney -:- wishful thinking is good -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 14:48:06 (EDT)
________________CS -:- wishful thinking is good -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:24:55 (EDT)
__________________barney -:- you've said nothing -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:38:08 (EDT)
____________________CS -:- nothing new under the sun -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 18:12:17 (EDT)
________Roger E. Drek -:- soon to be ***Best*** (nt) -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:14:26 (EDT)
______Government Inspector -:- Stinks to high heaven -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:13:48 (EDT)
________Jim -:- I smell a date -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 00:12:24 (EDT)
__________Sister Racquel -:- Premie men Not to avoid.... -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 01:28:23 (EDT)
__________Government Inspector -:- Voyeurism -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:42:48 (EDT)
__________Government Inspector -:- You're grounded, young man -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:59:44 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- You've got to be kidding -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 18:28:14 (EDT)
______________Government Inspector -:- No kidding -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:32:40 (EDT)
________________Jim -:- Hey, maybe you're right -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:45:31 (EDT)
__________________Government Inspector -:- Thank you Jim for answering -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:13:30 (EDT)
____________________Jim -:- Don't mention it -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:21:25 (EDT)
______________________Government Inspector -:- Don't mention it -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 09:56:36 (EDT)
________________________Government Inspector -:- *Roger, make room for this one -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:01:58 (EDT)
__________________________Roger E. Drek -:- Ain't gonna be no ***Best*** -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:55:38 (EDT)
____________________________Government Inspector -:- Ain't gonna be no ***Best*** -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:03:17 (EDT)
____________________________G.I. -:- Ain't gonna be no ***Best*** -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:56:56 (EDT)
________________________Mary M -:- Don't mention it -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:33:45 (EDT)
__________________________Government Inspector -:- Don't mention it -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:13:41 (EDT)
____________________________Mary M -:- Don't mention it -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 19:49:31 (EDT)
__________________________G.I. -:- Don't mention it -:- Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:20:37 (EDT)

Careless Castinyoga (CC) -:- PRACHAR WARS: PREMHASOLD 1 -:- Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:56:44 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- PRACHAR WARS: PREMHASOLD 1 -:- Wed, May 19, 1999 at 22:56:34 (EDT)
____RT -:- PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun -:- Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:33:24 (EDT)
______Gail -:- PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:32:28 (EDT)
________RT -:- PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 13:16:40 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun -:- Sat, May 22, 1999 at 16:24:12 (EDT)
__Roger Darth Vader -:- ***Best*** More, please! -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 00:45:07 (EDT)
____RT -:- ***Best*** Less is More -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:28:59 (EDT)
______KB -:- ***Best*** More -:- Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:26:59 (EDT)

Gail -:- Calling Malibu Mole -:- Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:07:39 (EDT)
__Gail -:- Please answer if you know. -:- Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:29:40 (EDT)


Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:27:16 (EDT)
From: noone
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: nothing
Message:
And I say,Behold the emissaries of the evil one! This forum leads the way.
Your greed has burnt your conscience and this forum knows not what it does.:but in a little time your conscience will assert itself, and in guilt you will close the gap and this forum.
We speak in public places on this earth. You can find premies anywhere.We do not need this forum anymore. The manifestation of mind on this forum is ,as the manifestation on any asylum ward. This is the means by which your uncontrolable minds will soon snuff themselves out.This forum is an addiction that is not easily given up. Especially when the minds have given reason to it. You cannot stop the winds from blowing you cannot create even one single grain of wheat out of thin air. Nature is in full control and is headed into each one of your minds. Just as the moon controls the tides ,so your minds will be your doom.Jesus and john and his twelve are the arrows that will pierce your thoughts. Just as the mighty pyramids are being put back to their original state ,so will this forum. The more you fight the more youwillhurt,yourselves. This forum and the minds that live here in cyberspace are all make believe. All that is written here is done by another programed computor.That words and posts here are all done by machines. This machine will break down soon. We the living will outlast the machine.We the living will be the happy. The machines of this forum have know life machines need full and it is running out very fast your lifetime is destened to end and it will the evil that is here is the evil of anger and greed and jelousy and it has made this machine there is only poison in this machine just like the verbal carnage that it creats. soon this carnige will eat itself and spew forth nothing in return
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:23:19 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: noone
Subject: nothing, but well said indeed!
Message:
Man, I'm gonna order me a Baygin Crank Radio and a five years supply of food and all the other survival gear I can get a hold of if whatever you said might be true.

Are we talking floods or a swarm of locusts? Man, I hate them bugs crawling all over my flesh with them 6, 8, 12 or how many little hairy legs they got. Although, they can taste pretty good deep fried with ketchup.

Hell, yes! Bring on the bugs, Lord!
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:30:44 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: noone
Subject: nothing
Message:
Ah, now I understand. I am a computer! I did have my doubts about being a real person and now it's confirmed. Thanks. Is there any chance of me getting an upgrade soon?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 03:43:23 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: just overclock your board
Message:
Sir Dave,

You don't need an upgrade. Just overclock your CPU and your bus. It's a bit of trial and error until it starts generating too many transients and becomes unstable or fails to boot. And then you just back off a tad.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 04:29:17 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: overbored this clock
Message:
It seems like the forum is becoming involved in perpetual argument with premies. While I have taken on the task of arguing with these nincompoops enthusiastically at times, it gets to be incessantly boring hearing the tiresome cycle of cultist nonsense and bullshit that the followers of Rawatt have to offer. In a blaze of glory, the apocalyptic realities of our insignificance are illumined for us, for the nzillionth time. These people really do not comprehend how much their finest moments are bad reruns of old tv shows that we have seen. Admittedly, old shows have their charm at certain moments, I would really not enjoy seeing Howdy Doody every morning, ever again.

These people love arguing with us. Face it. It's a new wave
of premies that loves getting us riled. One person can get ten of us to jump up and down and get upset. It's fun and it's revenge against the evil exes who defame the holy master.

They are bolder and more empowered for whatever reason.

I personally chased Shp up and down the forum months ago, posting several threads about what a prob he was. He is! He completely feeds on the attention and has the right kind of masochism to really make us work hard.

I'm not calling for any specific action. I don't know what should be done. I don't think it's ever going to work where people just ignore the premies who are here in full glory. I notice that JM really does manage to ignore them (amongst exes who are strongly opposed to M's work), but I don't see it happening for the group at large. There's too many of us, dying for that fight.

I also can't see the forum becoming a peaceful meeting place for premies and exes. The premies are so twisted, with some possible exceptions, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:12:10 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: sad, but true
Message:
As annoying as the premie posters may be, I believe that their posts like this one offer a good example, albeit extreme in this case, of what the cult is about and what kind of thinking it encourages and develops in it's members.

Certainly, any rational non-interested person reading the Forum will see the obvious differences between premies and ex-premies. Basically, these premies are unwittingly making our case and we should encourage their non-interruptive participation.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 19:08:00 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: overbored this clock
Message:
Hi Run,

Sometimes it's fun to chase the premies up and down threads. I like your style as well as you 'nom de guerre'. Don't you think that the premies are hilarious most of the time? A bit like demanding 2 year olds venting their tempers.

I think it's good to remember that they're probably experiencing these alter ego 'delusions of grandeur' when they stumble into the X/3 forum to bravely defend their Lord of Gratitude. Perhaps if they were truly honest, they'd find a dearth of inner peace and gratitude as promised by M and cronies. They are probably the most desperate of desperate in the K-Lite world as they receive absolutely no recognition from this man they've 'chosen' to recognize as an _______ . Well, you fill in the blank.

I still think SHP is on the fence and perhaps he's both 'noone' and 'boj'. I'm not sure. Catweasel should change his handle to 'Cluck Cluck Here' or 'Cluck Cluck There' or 'Here a Cluck' or 'There a Cluck' or 'Everywhere a Cluck Cluck'. Oops, I'm rambling but he is a chicken and probably terrified to reveal his name. Maybe he needs a good BOO! I wasn't around for Steven or Keith.

I am, however, still wondering why Orlando ran away. I've no clue what caused him to snap like that at me. Oh well, I lose no sleep over it.

Signing off...

Luv,
mare
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 07:57:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: just overclock your board
Message:
Is that the 37 bus to Brixton or the 185 to Leicester Square?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:29:53 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: noone
Subject: Very funny, Steven
Message:
or is it Angel?

Can't remember which of you guys confuse 'know' with 'no'. There's that unmistakable mark of a EV man. A graduate of the Unity School, I'm sure.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:07:16 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm confused
Message:
Jim: 'noone' called us greedy, but where have we manifested greed? Being an observant type, I thought you might know the answer to this one so we can nip it in the bud.

The only greed I've seen manifested is that which is embodied by the perfect hamster himself. Gold toilets, airplanes, deluxe accomodations everywhere he goes, private schools for his kids, a mansion on a hill in malibu and a new car for every day of the week.....all paid for by his loyal minions.....not a single honest dollar EARNED by his ass-holiness.....hmmmmmm..... NO, you're right premies, there isn't a single greedy bone in M's body!
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:36:27 (EDT)
From: BOJ
Email: None
To: noone
Subject: nothing
Message:
And I say unto followers of the Lord of Maya.

Cursed is the Lord of Maya and his wife the Goddess of Maya.
Cursed is she, the Goddess of Maya, for her desires of the pustulent flesh of the fifteen year old Lord of Maya. Her mouth and hands shall rot and her flesh shall be plucked by birds of prey as she emits the stench of her Master.

Bound for eternity are the King and Queen of Maya, their powers stripped by the Lord of Hosts. They are neither hot nor cold so he shall spew them like vomit out of his mouth. The Lord of Hosts has reserved a vestibule for the King and Queen of Maya. In this cage they shall be surrounded by eternal terror such as was felt by those they allowed to be molested and abused for their love of maya. Their ears shall hear the lament of the children of monica who are no more because of their foolish ways.

Woe I say unto you. Woe I say unto you. Woe I say unto you.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:43:46 (EDT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: BOJ
Subject: Welcome to the Vomitorium
Message:
Join the free-flying spew! You too can be a member of this celebration of wisdom and love! Wear your raincoat and hat.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:09:13 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: BOJ
Subject: Boj
Message:
Boj: Ah, thy words are likened unto the birds singing on high (or is that: singing while high). Tell me, oh great one, will their bodies be covered by boils and their yacht swallowed by a whale? Tell me, I wait with baited-breath.....yechhhh...smells like fish around here...
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:57:52 (EDT)
From: Tami R
Email: None
To: noone
Subject: yu tel them
Message:
Yu tel them, noon. I dunt no wat al the wirds meen, but I no the x-primis ar in there minds. But yu ar not in yur mind and I am not in mi mind. Wee ar out uv our minds. The forim is al mind. Yes, the x-primis hav lots uv gilt. Thank yu, noone. I rilly like the way you spelt carnige and jelousy. Yu spel just like mi.

But ar the pirimids bing remudled? I dunt no that.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:26:56 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Chucky Cheese
Message:
The only time my husband went to see M it had the same effect on him as going to my kid's birthday party at Chucky Cheese!

I have never seen him like that at any other time. Panic-stricken.

Must be the way that M sits on that throne just moving his head from one side of the room to the other.

You guys must have noticed the similarity way back eh?

I think I'm getting my sense of humour back.

When I first took K a good friend told me she thought I'd lost my Joy de Vive (elan vital?) Now I'm beginning to think she was right. What a waste.

Oh Well,

Liz
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:47:34 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Conan the Barbarian
Message:
The way Maharaji sits on his throne at programs and even more so when he's giving darshan reminds me of a scene in Conan the Barbarian with Arnold Schwarzenegger as Conan and James Earl Jones as the emperor of evil, Thulsa Doom.

Thulsa Doom, looking much like Maharaji, is on his throne and there's a huge snake in the scene and a big caldron of people soup or something really funky as part of a human sacrifice ceremony. Thulsa Doom is silently watching all of this moving his head slowly back and forth with total serenity and abandon.

Check it out and think of Maharaji. It will scare the hell out of you.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:30:33 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: The Snake Satguru
Message:
'Thulsa Doom is silently watching all of this moving his head slowly back and forth with total serenity and abandon.'

The the sililarity was creepy.

I remember being taken to see that film by a 'community' premie, and she explainned to me that Thulsa Doom was the snake-satguru, so I felt better about going to see a film.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:36:28 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Chucky Cheese
Message:
Bwa ha ha--robotic chuckie cheese--that's a good one. He even dances with the birthday child . The first time I went there I needed a valium BAD.

M does suck the life force out of ya--your friends were very astute, my friends and family said the same thing to me. Course I just thought they (intelligent people all) were in their Minds. Thanks goodness for them, eh? It was pretty clear to any observant person that premies were very off track--and way spaced, no?
Love
Helen
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:43:34 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: One of my favorite MJ quotes
Message:
Screaming at the top of his lungs now.

'How many perfect masters are you going to sit through?'
GMJ Portland OR 1977

Let's see, how about 800. But I didn't think he beleived in reincarnation. I guess I'm misinterpreting him again. I never really understood.

Is there just a chance that He's Wrong and I'm right? I'm okay?
I'm Fine? And he's an idiot. I'm beginning to think so.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:21:19 (EDT)
From: pinga
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: One of my favorite MJ quotes
Message:
6 157.130.67.41 Serial8-0-0.GW1.MIA1.ALTER.NET 160
7 137.39.141.42 ICI-MIA1-gw.customer.ALTER.NET 189
8 165.117.53.62 mia1-core3-fa4-1-0.atlas.digex.net 259
9 165.117.51.29 dca1-core9-pos4-2.atlas.digex.net 339
10 165.117.51.246 ord2-core1-pos4-2.atlas.digex.net 239
11 165.117.50.41 jfk3-core2-p1-3.atlas.digex.net 239
12 165.117.56.213 jfk3-core4-pos4-0-0.atlas.digex.net 268
13 165.117.51.62 ewr1-core2-h4-0-0.atlas.digex.net 268
14 165.117.50.177 ewr1-core1-fa5-1-0.atlas.digex.net 228
15 209.48.31.162 unavailable 228
16 209.117.197.122 www.ex-premie.org 249
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:10:35 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: pinga
Subject: Trace Route
Message:
pinga: And the purpose of your tracert exercise was............?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 12:18:39 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Trace Route - purpose?
Message:
Although pinga omitted the first 5 addresses of his/her Trace Route that would lead us directly to him, starting with the sixth address it's a pretty good bet that pinga is visiting us from Florida, say Miami, perhaps.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:05:19 (EDT)
From: pinga
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Trace Route - purpose?
Message:
Orlando, actually, although I actually sent in a quote, what the hell was all that stuff on the screen??????
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:23:48 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: pinga
Subject: Trace Route - purpose?
Message:
what the hell was all that stuff on the screen??????

That was your CTRL/C then CTRL/V.

Mare
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 02:00:46 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Trace Route - purpose?
Message:
ok
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 02:05:25 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Trace Route - purpose?
Message:
test
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:38:50 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Trace Route
Message:
Hey, Mike. That's a new one, eh? BTW, how did you know Mickey the Pharisee was the 'All Seeing One'?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:35:26 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Ah man
Message:
Jerry: You ask me for my secrets. Well, ok, I'll let you have this one..... 'former monk (HOOM)' was the givaway. ;-)
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:36:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Maybe he needs viagra now
Message:
or jsut a shot of geritol. All we get now are these empty whispers of emptiness, whispers of whispering, empty tautologies of tautoligisms, shit like this:

'What does 'infinite' mean? It is very easy to define that word. It means 'something that has no end'. But if you actually want to find something with no end, see something with no end, feel something with no end... then feel something with no end. To feel the infinite, turn within. Look into your heart, not your head.'

- Maharaji, Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 24 April 1999.

You want infinite? Then get some infinite! Simple. Where? Your heart, asshole! How many times do I have to tell you? Next?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 21:22:50 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe he needs viagra now
Message:
This whole scam is beyond my ability to comprehend. The fact that he makes it work is a tribute to something, maybe PT Barnum. Somehow he turns free knowledge into a gravy train for himself and his Mercedes driving kids.

He wants to talk about infinite cause he knows no one can dispute infinite they know they no nothing about it. No one on earth can put their finger on infinite. Now it's a description of the experience of knowledge. Give me a break. The bullshit keeps getting deeper. Later Z.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:18:36 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: The only infinite thing seems
Message:
to be that cults have cropped up throughout the ages. The religion myth keeps rearing its ugly head and transforming. In about 100 years, I can imagine people going to an Elan Vital meeting centre the way some go to temple or church now.

A cult takes about 100 years to become totally acceptable. Meanwhile, there will always be those who capitalize on the curiosity and self-doubt of others. Look at the B'a Hai (sp) faith. It's almost socially acceptable now. JSCA
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 13:03:05 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Some of my favorite MJ quotes
Message:
'Nothing is permanent except devotion and K. If you do not realize this K and practise, all you will get is an apartment in the city of death.'

'I told you to propagate (pause and chuckle)--Knowledge.' Then he went on to describe the reincarnation of a husband to a rabbit.

'Nothing is predetermined. This is live.' That meant he made the rules as he went along.

'Even your children will turn on you. I know a woman who doted on her child. Then one day, the child said, 'I hate you, mummy.' Nice message, eh. In other words, devote to me--not your children.

'I get invited to many weddings. I just laugh and say, 'You wouldn't really want me there.' [aside] I might tell them what I really think.' In other words, marriages and long-term relationships are a waste of time.

'If I were a premie, the only reason I would work would be to go see my Guru Maharaj Ji.'.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:10:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: saccarine
Message:
4th Aug, 1973. New Musical Express. - by Nick Kent.

Here's a poser for all you avid NME album reviews readers: if the Guru Maharaji is the little Jimmy Osmond of spiritualism and Melanie is the Guru Maharaji of folk wimpishness, then what do Melanie and little Jimmy Osmond have in common? That's right. They're both fat.

That's where the likeness ends fortunately, because even that paunchy little Mormon probably couldn't stomach Melanie's brand of hippie-girl mystical precociousness.

The whole Melanie cult has always struck me as being absolutely the most offensively ludicrous outbreak of warts on the body-politic of rock. Sure, Cat Stevens and lonesome Leonard Cohen tend to bite the gristle with their self obsessed brand of melancholic oatmeal, but those bed-sitter girls who seem to constitute the majority of the later pair's victims can gain some slight comfort in the fact that there are some few shards of creativity at work there.

But Melanie is a truly grim performer, the last word in the whole brown-rice, banal spirituality and general flatulence culture - a voice which grates more than chalk against a blackboard, spastic melodies and guitar playing and a slight ability for lyric writing that is horreniously outweighed by the pretensions of its own intentions.

The show is opened first by maternal, glib Alison Steele and then by some gink called Scott Muni who sounds like he's straight from the Nehru jacket/peace medallion brigade of youth-condescension middle America/showbiz consciousness.

It's Melanie's birthday (applause) so It's going to be one of those special occasions.

And then on comes everyone's sweetheart, giggling, knocking out a quick rap about togetherness and pollution in New York City and it's off into one of a series of her braying songs.

God, it's awful - gross, wimpoid profundities, etc. You'd think she'd have the decency to add some innocuous instrumentation - maybe a pedal steel guitar just so as to cut down the staggeringly high nausea level present on his record. But there's no room for mercy here: four sides of Melanie, her guitar and her music - I'd rather go through a series of complex shocks on my genitals than sit through this album again.

I mean, really, who needs another version of 'Baby Guitar' or 'Beautiful People'?

I suppose one should acknowledge a slight maturing of style in the manner of Melanie's song-writing. There's a ditty called 'Psychotherapy' which could be quite witty were it not so cute, while 'Actress' finds her stalking into advanced Joni Mitchell territory and falling flat on her face.

In conclusion, I hate this album. I hate it for an almost godforsaken number of reasons, but most of all, perhaps, for the audience's placidly unshakeable acceptance throughout that they are being cradled within the womb of Great Art and Wondrous Simplicity while they bask under the shadow of Melanie's horrendous excesses.

Still the fact remains for me that this album's very existence is an even more depressing statement of our times than the equivalent fact that 'Living In A Material World' is currently in the album charts. But then again, an old kaftan will never let you down.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:38:04 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: saccarine
Message:
And how 'bout those New Age performers who play variations of a five-note scale for what seems like hours...and their fans (who have apparently never listened to any JAZZ..too much real expression, I guess) rave about how these genius artists just MAKE IT UP on the spot because they are, like, so tuned in to, y'know, the cosmos and stuff. Wow.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:39:20 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: saccarine
Message:
Hi Jim,

Is this a blast from the past or have they thawed out Melanie to perform again ?

I had a girlfriend at the time who listened to the good book none stop, so my recollections of Melanie now are tinged with the warm memories of great sex. But I agree, that listening to this stuff in the nineties is kinda wierd but then who would be kissing the tootsies of some fat sweaty indian midget in a Krishna costume today?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:57:35 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Must have been something I ate.

I was at Amaroo 2000 hanging around in the tent city with a premie friend of mine whom I hadn't told that I was an ex-premie. I had arrived early to do service and saw the elaborate efforts at remodeling the stage. Contrary to popular belief, there was heavy security everywhere as Maharaji was on-site.

I was feeling rather uncomfortable with the seeing the special accommodations like housing and dining for the super premies and the rich premies.

Then it happened. And the buzz was out that Maharaji was touring the grounds. Yet, the word was out that we should just act natural and that we shouldn't look at him. My friend said, 'Here he comes, but don't look at him.' I looked down the dusty dirt road and there he was. Yes, he was amongst us. He was sitting nearly naked except for what looked like a diaper and was sitting in a little red wagon that was behind a motor assisted tricycle driven by Daya.

I did look at him and he looked at me. He nervously blinked and then looked away from me. I could tell that he knew that I was no longer a premie and he was nervous about it.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:23:07 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: MJ should be nervous--
Message:
at least in these parts. His faithful are dropping like flies. Nim said that Montreal (the biggest community in Canada) could no longer support the hall. The people who are serving him probably can't leave because they have no job or family left to go to. One of these days Julius Caesar may be played at his ranch. Et tu Brutus?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:30:13 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Barney,

That's really hillarious. I was beginning to think that nothing could cheer me up.

I don't feel sick anymore.

I could see that he knew I was no longer a premie and felt nervous about it! Frugghh!

Love,

Liz
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:59:01 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
glad that my misfortune and suffering helped you out.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:45:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: my darshan dream 2
Message:
Dear Barney,
What do you mean, your misfortune and suffering. I thought you sounded very strong in your dream. Defying orders from the living lord who was in a diaper and a red wagon pulled by a frickin tricycle, definitely a lower stance than you and to look him in the eye and have HIM be nervous. Maybe I am missing some feeling you had during the dream but I think you sound strong and independant and that it was a very good dream!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:41:23 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Liz
Subject: Liz
Message:
Dear Liz,
I have been thinking about you as I think you said your husband would be home from Kosova the weekend after Mother's Day. I hope he did get home and was well.
Hope you get to feeling better too. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:37:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: barney
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Dear Barney,
What an excellent dream. I think it says a lot about how far you've come dear. I had a pretty weird dream myself last night but I'd have to write about in on Sir's forum if I was going to tell it...but I won't! :)
Hope you are doing well.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:53:03 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Robyn
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Robyn; you can always write it on The ANYTHING GOES forum using a different name. After all, the only people who I know who they really are, are you and Selene when you use your real names. Who Ophelia and company are is anybody's guess.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:35:56 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Dear Sir,
Yeah, I am not falling for THAT again! Outed from the get go and now come to find out some people would have known me by my writing style. I can run but not hide!
It will have to wait until, if I am correct in my assumption, until I am in your employ and we have time for chit chat! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:53:10 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: wait, you're under contract
Message:
Hold those thoughts, Robyn. You're still under contract and any unmentionable dreams are the property of Drek Industries, Inc.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:39:42 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: wait, you're under contract
Message:
Dear Rog,
Uh...., er...., what a sticky wicket. I thought you backed out of our agreement as I haven't seen theater construction begin in the field behind my house!
I may tell to much about myself so you know that if I am not talking it must be good! :) I'll be taking this one to my grave! Nothing to do with M either, THANK GOD! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 02:13:10 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: think big, really big!
Message:
Robyn,

My marketing team has taken the cue from Maharaji's successes on the Internet and Global Broadcast Satellite (G-BS) and instead of building some kind of friendly Branson Missouri entertainment destination resort that currently resembles a drive-in movie theater with kids on ATVs we're going to bring the entertainment from your deck to the world in our ambitious Phase II.

You do the belly dancing on your deck at prescribed times and we beam it to billions of paying customers.

And as an added bonus you can sit around your woodstove and tell folksy stories like your dreams.

Simple and profitable for us! And you'll be famous! Bigger than Maharaji and his videos for insomniacs.

What do you say to that? Gotta deal?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:29:56 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: think big, really big!
Message:
Dear Rog,
Sounds excellent! :) Simple and financially lucrative and it may turn out to be all tied up with bringing the goddess to the masses, eh? Additional donations most probably forthcoming. :)
I will have to keep my committment to BRM thought as I am exploring the newest faucet of my persona, helper to those in need overseas. :)
You are the type to draw up a contract so lets see it.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:58:21 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: barney
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
What a brilliant snapshot of your subconscious, Barney. Maharaji in a nappy being pulled by a tricycle. That's just too much!

Take away the hype and the mystique and that's just about what we're left with. Hey, perhaps Maharaji is into that baby fetish where men dress up as babies and are looked after by a 'nurse'.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:37:39 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Dear Sir,
I saw that on Phil Donahue too!!!!!!!!! Such a shame such an educational show went off the air! :)
Love again,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:05:06 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
I had a great Darshan dream last week, it went like this.

I was iin M's residence and I was there in his prescence and all these people are treating him like god and he of course is treating them like they are invisible or worse like they are pieces of shit just there for his amusement. I found myself getting really pissed off and so I confronted him and said something like 'you're nothing but a con-man'

The premies were horrified but the more pissed off I became with him the friendlier he became. He came up and put his arm around me and he looked unfit and greasy and I felt nothing but disgust for him. I woke up and felt great. I think that was the best Darshan dream I have ever had, It has made me feel that I have finally crossed the rubicon, and that there is no longer that hidden wish of, if only it were true.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:45:57 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Dear Bill,
That is great! Who knows maybe when this forum and all the other ex-premie sites bring him down, he will be relieved. I don't think he sees it that way now but it just might come to pass.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:23:36 (EDT)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: I had a dream too!
Message:
And in this dream, I was making my first post on the ex-premie forum...just like I did some six months ago.
And then I looked at my computer screen and there were all these 'Hello Nimrod' posts in response.
It was as though I didn't even have to read them. Just seeing all those posts titled 'Hello Nimrod' was enough for me to know that the sense of isolation as an as an 'ex-premie' had effectively come to an end. It was truly an amazing moment.
But stuck in the middle of all those truly kind, warm and accepting greetings was one post by yourself barney, and it was entitled 'superior and sucking up'
I wonder what the fuck you knew about me in order to make that kind of statement.
Did you know what I had to go through in order to break free from the cult?
Did you have any idea that perhaps this guy who had just left the cult and is making his first appearance on the forum may be carrying suicidal feelings with him...like alot of people who leave and have been deeply involved for along time?
Did you know for example that this guy who was posting for the first time, was someone who was experiencing black outs and all kind of post traumatic stress symptons in the immediate weeks after my decision to break free from the cult?
Could you appreciate how difficult it was for me to even make that post?
What the fuck did you care, huh?
Somebody appears on the forum and thats enough for you to have something sticking in your craw.
Well scratch as hard as you want, you resident fat fuck emeritus...and go fuck yourself!!
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:38:24 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Nim
Subject: I had a dream too!
Message:
Dear Nim,
I don't read enough of the forum to know if you and barney really clash but it sure sounds like it. I know what that is like. I have a vauge memory of you two going at it once but I am not really sure and I wasn't sure if it was play at the end as you seemed to work everything out and come out smiling.
I am sorry if that isn't the case. I have always had a good feeling about you, you have always been kind to me anyway and your posts that I have read are thoughtful.
I know what it is like here to butt heads with someone you clash with, unforunately I clash with the clash master even though I am a die hard ex-premie even if it doesn't translate into unkindness here. I know sometimes a kind word goes a lot farther than harsh ones. I'm sorry you had such a hard break and am glad you are feeling stronger after 6 mo.
Take good care, Nim,
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:59:28 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: I had a dream too!
Message:
Did you have any idea that perhaps this guy who had just left the cult and is making his first appearance on the forum may be carrying suicidal feelings with him...like alot of people who leave and have been deeply involved for along time?

I actually think about this from time to time. Are there any exes who have actually taken their lives? Is it possible that some people can't adjust to living without the premie/master trip and just call it quits as a result? I've wondered about this with Shp. Could this guy survive without the Big M or has he been so rewired to depend so thoroughly on him that he wouldn't be able to carry on otherwise? I think about this.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 20:22:03 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: All too much?
Message:
Hi Jerry

I don't know of any exes who have taken their lives, but I do think some current premies would have a incredibly hard time if they tried to leave. I can relate to some of what Nim said: for me it was super hard, and still is sometimes. That's one reason I still hang around here, even though I often think it'd be healthier if I didn't!

I know an ex-premie who is married to a premie. She's a die-hard exe, he's a die-hard premie. She once said to me that she didn't think her husband, who is a good person and whom she loves very much, could survive leaving MJ. So she doesn't overly challenge his beliefs.

There will always be some people who follow MJ. I don't think there's much point trying to get those who are totally sunk into the trip, out. I do think there's a need to provide a lot of support to those who want to leave, and also to give clear information and a place for discussion to people who are considering getting involved. That's one reason I leave the serious premie-ex scuffle threads alone - I don't think they really go anywhere, and you have to look hard to find posts in them which further the support/information aims.

The other day an ex-fundamentalist friend of mine was sobbing in my arms, supposedly about a man. But I felt how alone she was - her family are fundies and don't want to know her, and she has no access to the comforts of a higher power. The damage cults do, whether they're in the context of a mainstream religion, like Christian fundamentalism, or not, is so great. And so hidden. There is such a great need for exposure, but also for resources to help people rebuild and find community and purpose. I reckon.

Nice to post to you, Jerry. Hope you're well.

Diz
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:47:22 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Diz
Subject: All too much?
Message:
Hi, Diz. Good to hear from you again. For me, leaving the cult wasn't that difficult. I was only on the fringe bouncing in and out of it. I just had to (and continue to) rearrange my thinking about M & K. Where M was once the Lord?/Master, now I think of him as being just one more guru from a culture I knew nothing about but now know more of. He's a dime a dozen. He's interesting because he started as a young child and pretty much inherited the guru gig from his dad, but he's basically just one-more-guru, just one more god-among-us (not).

The knowledge is another story. I meditate on 'light' regularly (I guess I just enjoy staring at nothing in particular). After that I like the 'music'. I don't really care much for 'holy name' or 'nectar' though. Oddly, I find 'holy name' more distressing than anything. But my approach to knowledge is secular now, a means to relax and find some good vibes, where before I was on a mission to find God. That never happenned.

Anyway, not to get too far off track, this website was, for me, a wake-up call. It snapped me out of my reverie pretty readily and got me immediately thirsting for freedom from whatever bonds the cult had on me. But I see that's not always the case. Some people, apparently, don't feel bound at all by Maharaji. They feel quite liberated, in fact. Or so it seems. I wonder if some of these people, like your friend's husband, wouldn't be crushed beyond recovery if doubt crept in and took hold.

You are so right that there is a need for exposure to the harm cults do. I think there actually is. Compared to the heady days when we were cult bound, there is much more exposure. We went in blind. We were the trailblazers. Now, people know, or should know, based upon our experiences, that joining a cult to find answers in your life is not the right way.

Nice taking to you again, Diz. Stay well.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:09:21 (EDT)
From: Tami R
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
I ulso had that dreem, butt in mi dreem, Maraji sed he nu I wuz a primi and then he tuk hold uv mi brests, rimuved his diper and then imprignited mi wile Diya watched on the trisikel. It was kuhel. Did hee fuk mi becuz I am a rich primi, or becuz I am blond and have big brests? Iz fukking wat yu meen bi 'special accommodations?'

If yu hav darshun dreems yu ar a primi, wether yu no it or not. Praze the grase of Maraji. Az he sed, he haz nivir lost a primi.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 18:56:52 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Tami R
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
It is such a gift to be gifted with that gift of a darshan dream. Who knows if Maharaji really manifests in our dreams, I feel he does and I have experienced his presence there many times for which I cannot begin to express, relate, or ever hope to comprehend with my evil mind, what a gift it is. But it's just so beautiful to be reminded of that place, that joy, that love, that fulfillment, that gift and that experience in a dream, so that we can be reminded, once again, to enjoy that breath which is a gift, a gift that is our breath that we must always try to remember and then be grateful to Maharaji for, because he is the one who shows us that place, that love, that peace and that experience and helps us be reminded to be grateful for the gift of that breath.

I hope your darshan dream reminds you of that gift.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 00:23:55 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: my darshan dream
Message:
Who are you, dear sister?
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 10:57:20 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: my darshan dream--today
Message:
I can't believe I had this dream, to be sure. There was one woman I knew in it. We ended up talking to other people and having a great time. These two twins about 55 said that they didn't believe anymore. Premies were quietly arguing. I just watched and felt very high.

Finally someone said that MJ had already talked and was about to give darshan. We ran into the hall. He seemed to be hooked to some holograph machine. There were visions of him all across the stage (sort of like the Krishna myth). Then, the machine stopped. He sat down. People started walking up to him and bending down to kiss his feet. Even though I knew it wasn't true, I confess I was contemplating going up there. YUK! I woke up just in time. The high felt really good.

BTW, I never remember dreams.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 16:29:46 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: last night's darshan dream
Message:
Boy, I must be gearing up for those programs in Montreal and Miami!

I was at a small program with a simple stage with just a chair and Maharaji giving satsang. I was doing security stage left behind the curtains. No one knew that I was an ex-premie. One by one the other people backstage left leaving only me. Maharaji upon seeing this kept looking over to me and became increasingly agitated. His satsang became venomous. In fact, it got downright ugly and the premies were in pain like the Kissimee Slaughter. Maharaji could take no more himself and he abruptly left the stage.

After Maharaji's departure premies were using fire hoses to clean the hall of all the venom and vomit that Maharaji had expelled. In the hall washrooms premies were in tears and bent over sinks furiously trying to wash Maharaji's vomit out of their hair.

I love you Maharaji, you are my all! You've not only shown me my true self but yours as well!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 08:13:56 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: last night's darshan dream
Message:
WOW--was that dream for real, barney? That is amazing.
Reminds me of this song from 'South Pacific':
'I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair
I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair,
And send him on his way'
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:24:39 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: yes, quite real
Message:
The image of people frantically trying to wash Maharaji's vile puke out of there hair is permanently archived in my brain.

And you know, I think it's possible. Anyone at the Kissimee who got fried in that one satsang knows just how bad it could get.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:32:01 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Kissimmee
Message:
Know where I can get a tape of that?

I was there, but I was so stoned, it all seemed quite pleasant!
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 17:34:12 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Kissimmee
Message:
I know what you mean. I couldn't figure out why all the cars were leaving. It was an afternoon satsang, as I recall. He shouted and ranted a great deal. However, it seemed like music to me. We could only catch every third or fourth word with the reverb effect in the back forty.

The couple I drove down with got throughly disgusted and went home early. They never came back to the LOTU again until the late eighties. I had to make other arrangements to go home. I should have followed their lead.

I had a great time at that festival. However, all was not well in glockamorra (spelling?). None of those videos was ever released in its entirety. We saw snippets--that's all. The All-Night-Long Fog Dance was a fun night for the first few hours. Those were fun days if you don't think about paying $100 to get in, plus the food tickets, the cold showers, the raging heat of the day and the freezing cold of the night.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 18:27:40 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Kissimmee
Message:
Getting my years mixed up here. Wasn't there one on '78 & again in'79? I know I went to both. 78 was my first US prog, I have fond memories of discovering Dr Pepper & chocolate chip cookies! Then there were the orange tents you had to buy (but leave behind???) and the infinate lentil line. Communal showers were pretty cool though...

Which year are we talking about where Maharaji got tough? Must have been before they got the air-conditioned chair rigged up.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:22:56 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Kissimmee 1979 was brutal
Message:
for some.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:02:49 (EDT)
From: The All Seeing One
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What Really Happened
Message:
As you may be aware, our own SHP has amazing psychic powers which he has honed as a former monk (HOOM) and as a slave of the Perfect Master of the Age. He has the ability to look through our monitors into our homes and offices straight through to our minds and understand exactly why we behave as we do. He also has the power to intuit historical events, but that is not what I am dealing with here. The most recent example of his psychic ability is his recent squabble with Jim. I don’t have the same powers as SHP, but I purchased a ‘SHP chip’ at my local computer store, and I was able to learn what really happened:

SHP is at home, preparing to pay his bills. This is a major undertaking as he no longer uses cash since drug dealers, corporate polluters, and unkind people touch the money and have ruined the ‘vibe.’ He is big on barter now, and must decided how many chickens go to the power company and whether the macrame plant holder will go to his internet server or the organic market down the street. However, he is unable to put the eggplants from his garden into the Amnesty International envelope and must actually write a cheque. While addressing the envelope and putting on a stamp, he ponders the good work they do. A tear gently runs down his cheek as he suddenly thinks: “Gee, I really love Jim, but he sure is mean. I wonder how much money he gives to Amnesty International? I wonder if he works for justice and truth as an attorney there in Canada?” The more he thinks about it, the more his concern grows: “What if Jim protects bad people? I love him as a sinner, but I hate his sin, the sin of being a lawyer and using words I don’t understand.” He begins to sob. “Gee, I’ll bet Jim has such a bad day at work that he comes home, turns on his computer, and takes out his frustrations on all of us sincere premies. That’s not right! It can’t be because he wants to convince premies that they are being tricked; Maharaji loves us all to much to be a bad man. And that Jagdeo thing, well, it was wrong, but I’m sure Maharaji would never ever ever allow such a thing to happen, even if he did hear about it at least twice! Oh, what can I do to save Jim’s soul and avoid discussing these troubling issues? Didn’t Moses tell Jesus ‘don’t let things bother you as long as you can change the subject?’” As he sits there in silence, he hears deep within himself a voice: “Sandy, you are a good boy. Jim is lost and you must confront him. Dog him all over the Forum just as he does with my precious little pwks and don’t let logic or rational thought get in the way of your mission.” SHP wipes his eyes, smiles, and logs on.....
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:22:49 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: The All Seeing One
Subject: What Really Happened
Message:
Ah, my friend, thy words giveth away thy identity.... :-)
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 14:22:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Really, Mike?
Message:
That was so funny but Mike, who is it?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:54:32 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Really, Mike?
Message:
I could be wrong (duh), but methinks it be Mickey the P. :-)
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:40:05 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Really, Mike?
Message:
You really think so, Mike? Is there something I'm missing here because I think it's Nigel.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:29:57 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I confess, it was me (NT)
Message:
I did it.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:54:17 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: all
Subject: I confess, it was me (NT)
Message:
You guys are messing with my mind again !
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:06:48 (EDT)
From: Your Eye Doctor
Email: None
To: The All Seeing One
Subject: Time to have that one big eye
Message:
checked out again. You are way behind on your exams again, and you are going to hurt yourself or somebody else if you keep this shit up.

One more lawsuit that you try to pin on me and you can find yourself another eye doctor.

And I don't accept eggplants or American Express, so you better have cash, because I ain't taking any checks from you anymore either.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 04:19:51 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: When Your Guru Sues You.
Message:
Hi,

If you’d like to print off a book to take on holiday, try ‘What to Do When Your Guru Sues You’, by
Peter McWilliams.

It’s well written, humorous and packed with great quotes which most of us hanging out here will find relevant.

There’s an interesting test for Narcissistic Personality Disorder in Chapter 5, and the book is splattered with distrurbingly familiar incidents.

I can’t put it down, and it’s free too.

Anth.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 08:26:10 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: AJW
Subject: When Your Guru Sues You 2
Message:
I second the emotion..it's a good deal, takes 15 minutes to cut and paster the 20 chapters...go for it. Thanks be to AJW, may his Initials blaze forever on computer screens.

RT, who wonders if Kabir lived now, would he be a WebMaster?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 08:42:59 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: If Kabir lived now....
Message:
you ask if he would be a Webmaster. Probably so, a Webmaster of Webmasters, most likely. I have had similar thoughts about Benjamin Franklin.

But getting back to Kabir, it's also my firm beleif that besides being a Webmaster, he would also be either looking for, or already in the discipleship of his Master for this time around. Of that I am sure. You know why? Simple. Because what made Kabir Kabir was his intense love for his Master, which made him a most eloquent and inspired poet. Which corresponds with something Maharaji said about the Master and the student needing each other and defining each other by their relationship.

Yeah, Kabir would probably be a Webmaster, and I'd visit his site daily for inspiration because he'd be constantly singing the praises of Divine Love between Master and student in a way I can relate to.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:12:42 (EDT)
From: I'm getting ready to...
Email: None
To: Sheep
Subject: E X P L O D E ! ! ! !
Message:
Sheep shit all over the place! This REALLY sucks! YOU can't read a single thread without sandford outgassing. This dork can't resist making his inane satsangy bullshit comments on everything!!!!!

Sheep Shit, are you paid to disrupt the forum or are you just so stoned all the time you are compelled to vomit your mindless babble constantly? (no, don't answer that, asshole.) Give it a break, please!!!!!!!!!!

This Kabir crap is aimed at one thing: disrupt, disarm, distract from the real issues and put this nutcase were he wants, no, NEEDS to be, which is in the spotlight, no matter how dim.

Now, if EVERYONE would ignore him, that is, not respond to his ridiculous posts, he would soon get bored and find some other place to exercise is neuroticisms. I know this is asking a lot, but please, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 13:07:19 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: I'm getting ready to...
Subject: Shear.
Message:
Whomever you are, I am in your column.
He cannot ruin the forum, but us talking to him
does not help him at all.
His logics are faulty and his fraudulence is perfectly rawatian.

Those that feel compelled to talk to him would be doing a
forum courtesy by keeping to only one or two threads.
There is a Bobby Thread, there can be in effect, shp threads.
Slopping up all the threads IS unneccesary, and we can
manage that.

He has admitted his drug use and we are forgetting that.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:09:34 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: No drug use here. (nt)
Message:
abcdefg
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:22:35 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Shp- quotes to consider
Subject: If Kabir evolved...
Message:
...he would know that intense love is for the CREATION alone.
Masters inhibit self-reliance. Would Emerson have a Guru?

No, SHP the next lifetime of Kabir would see him in awe of the wonders around him, the stars, sun, nature, food, people, earth, technology. The Master ursurps that natural love, he steals it!
Boo! Bad Master! Go Chit in corner!

here are quotes from LIFE 102 , earlier post

Do television evangelists do more than lay people?
STANLEY RALPH ROSS

What is it men cannot be made to believe!
THOMAS JEFFERSON
1786

All propaganda . . . has to adapt its spiritual level to the perception of the least intelligent of those towards whom it intends to direct itself.
ADOLF HITLER

There's always free cheese in a mousetrap.
RODENT PROVERB

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie deliberate, contrived, and dishonest but the myth persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
JOHN F. KENNEDY

RT
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:46:09 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: RT
Subject: If Kabir evolved...
Message:
the best quote for this topic...

The true teacher defends his pupils against his own personal influence. He inspires self-trust. He guides their eyes from himself to the spirit that quickens him. He will have no disciple.
AMOS BRONSON ALCOTT
1840

RT
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:12:47 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Thanks RT-(nt)
Message:
asdfg
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:04:30 (EDT)
From: Barf
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: If Kabir lived now....
Message:
...what made Kabir Kabir was his intense love for his Master, which made him a most eloquent and inspired poet. Which corresponds with something Maharaji said about the Master and the student needing each other and defining each other by their relationship.

Gagh!

I'd visit his site daily for inspiration because he'd be constantly singing the praises of Divine Love between Master and student in a way I can relate to.

Yucky pooh!

You really get off on this stuff don't you? I think you'd really feel more comfortable at the I just love being a premie website.

Bye.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:36:42 (EDT)
From: Hey, AJW, this book is
Email: None
To: all
Subject: great! here's a link.
Message:
Intro to this book
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 11:49:44 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: bass-ackwards
Message:
I think AJW's reading selection is a good one, but...I think the author's got this one backwards:

The evil is programming, not what is being programmed. People often confuse these two and throw out the baby (the message, some of which may be good) with the bathwater (the fact that programming was used to convey the message).

Now I think programming the subconscious is a real thing and technologies and techniques exist to do this. This is not necessarily evil. It just is. No one escapes some sort of programming.

I contend the real ''evil'' is the message. Toxic messages. Like religion. Mirageyism. Sheepdippery. The programming is only the vehicle.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 12:51:52 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: bass-ackwards
Message:
Maharaji's message (today) is 'what you are looking for is within you'. So he gives you some meditation techniques and tells you to keep in touch. Apparently, he must think the techniques are useless in and of themselves or maybe he thinks you won't practice them without him. Perhaps some of you premies can clarify this for me. Shp? Anyway, the basic message is that what you are looking for is within. Is he wrong?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 17:24:13 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Barf
Subject: If Kabir lived now....
Message:
he'd be running his own cult--not helping the hamster!
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 09:39:32 (EDT)
From: Mc
Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com
To: AJW
Subject: When Your Guru Sues You.
Message:
Thanks for one GREAT link - terrific book - I've only read a couple of chapters & also don't want to put it down. Thanks again!
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:45:13 (EDT)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: Mc
Subject: When Your Guru Sues You.
Message:
Mc, AJW

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to put down too. It is very revealing to find out about some of the other Lords/Masters/Gods/Greater-that-Gods which are running around the planet. Gives a certain perspective on one's very own version.

Yes, lots of things sound familiar. Have you read the ex-Moonie accounts? There's one by Steve Hassan and another by a woman, I think that one's called 'Dark Side of the Moonies'. They both portray the full-on dedication/propagation thing very well. SO familiar. John-Roger (what a funny name for a god!) sounds like he had the make-it-more-relatable-to-Westerners thing down better from the start.

Always there's the common ground in that the guru/master is IT (as the author of the John-Roger book so succinctly puts it). I find it interesting that the 'proof' of this is always a bit different, but always involves some reference to one's own experience, so that the recognition is seen to come from WITHIN oneself. That's the way to do it, how then can you doubt without doubting yourself?

I wonder how many ex-cult members there are around? A hell of a lot. I wonder whether there's somewhere they can go to get help. A suspect there isn't, for many of them.

Thanks for the link, Arth.

Diz
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 11:13:32 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Diz
Subject: Guru Soup
Message:
Hello Diz, you wrote so well:

'Always there's the common ground in that the guru/master is IT (as the author of the John-Roger book so succinctly puts it). I find it interesting that the 'proof' of this is always a bit different, but always involves some reference to one's own experience, so that the recognition is seen to come from WITHIN oneself. That's the way to do it, how then can you doubt without doubting yourself?'

Yes, in PPSR's case he linked the inner experiences with proof of his own divinity...since you had an experience that I brought to you, I must be Very Special. ' Coming from traditional hindu god-man beliefs, this was an easy scam to put on the spiritually hungry west.

I like to daydream that in 50 years Meditation techniques will be fully explored and taught without cults or personality worship. This web site will be a reference for that!

Hello, 2049! How's the Weather Or Not?

The questions is: how were so many hindus fooled by the Sat Guru idea? A lot of authority is attributed to Kabir, for example, to validate current Masters. Yet he could have been fooled too, and simply wrote profound poetry based on a limited understanding.

comments welcome

RT
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 13:55:22 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Guru Soup
Message:
'The questions is: how were so many hindus fooled by the Sat Guru idea? A lot of authority is attributed to Kabir, for example, to validate current Masters. Yet he could have been fooled too, and simply wrote profound poetry based on a limited understanding'

Do you think there's a correlation with other religions? Look at Christianity, which is prime example of self-validating hysteria based on the '50 million people can't be wrong' premise. Can 50 million people be wrong? Sure, if all they are exposed to from birth is a common thread of beliefs and concepts, tagged with parental authority.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 20:48:37 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Guru Soup
Message:
Consider this. The Jews smelled a cult brewing. They had the good sense to nip it in the bud. It seems that people are never satisfied with what can be known. They want to know the unknowable; therefore, there have always been charlatans like Budda, Christ, Mohammad, Krisna, Vishnu, Guru Maharaji Ji, and Bubba Free John. They were all in the God business (maybe).
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 21:13:22 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Guru Soup
Message:
I must check out this Bubba Free character I keep reading about here - definately a new one on me.

Not sure I agree with the principle of quashing peoples' desire to investigate the unknowable, and also I'm not convinced that the esteemed gentlemen you mention were de facto charlatans because an organisation grew up around them.

Imagine the poor soul sitting under a tree, contemplating his whatever, and WHAM!, the Creator hits him with the mother of all experiences. What to do? If he has any humanistic feelings, he will naturally want to share his encounter with others, oblivious of the fact that, 2500 years later, his words will form the nucleus of a lucrative 'enlightenment' religion in Venice Beach.

What I'm getting at is, there is a danger of 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater', when we dismiss any spiritual teacher because of our distaste for the inevitable infrastructure surrounding him.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 22:22:59 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: Rob
Subject: Guru Soup
Message:
Some distant day we will discover that, among inhabited worlds in the galaxy, only the earth has religions!

good responses. More tomorrow, it's late...

RT
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Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 22:38:22 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ok, Shp, let's start fresh
Message:
You really want me to answer how I can be a ethical and a defence lawyer at the same time. It's quite obvious to me how this question has suddenly loomed so large for you. I think everyone here can see that you're just looking for some distraction because without one you're not really looking so good. But, whatever. Maybe that's just my overly cynical suspicion. Maybe you've got a whole different reason for asking.

Anyway, I've offered to answer your question so long as we first dealt with the issue at hand. You've said yes and have invited me to ask away. Alright, let's do that. Back to your post:

I don't know if this used to happen to you, but in years past when I would have something to say to Maharaji, I'd feel a wordless response of just real nice energy coming back to me on inner planes before I would even finish writing it, let alone mail it.
And the answer would be sort of 'blowing in the wind'. (I don't mean 'inner agya', either.) That hasn't happened with this most recent letter. But then again, I haven't been practicing every day either. That may have something to do with it. I remain patient for now.


Now, let's be clear, focussed and accurate. Okay?

1) Aren't you saying that in the past Maharaji has answered you with a 'wordless response' even before you'd finish writing, let alone mailing, your letter?

2) Aren't you saying that 'practising every day' might enable you to receive an answer from Maharaji this way?

Yes or no, Shp.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:14:27 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He is not capable
Message:
I just tried to read a few of his and respond and he
is just off the deep end.
Fresh start?
Your a tougher man than I gunga Jim.
There is no point in me reading his typeing.
between the claritin and no sleep and the pot, or whatever,
he is just not grounded.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:31:52 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Beg yer pardon?
Message:
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:23:58 (EDT)
From: Magnificent Martian
Email: None
To: Cess Hache Pee
Subject: Ok, Shp, let's start fresh
Message:
Cess:

As per James' quote: I don't know if this used to happen to you, but in years past when I would have something to say to Maharaji, I'd feel a wordless response of just real nice energy coming back to me on inner planes before I would even finish writing it, let alone mail it.
And the answer would be sort of 'blowing in the wind'. (I don't mean 'inner agya', either.) That hasn't happened with this most recent letter. But then again, I haven't been practicing every day either. That may have something to do with it. I remain patient for now.


I think I slipped on your words, and got some of it on me. How is it you don't know whether this happened to James or not? Are you being quasi-friendly by professing ignorance about the obvious, or are you performing an ad hoc lobotomy, just to get on his good side? Is this ignorance of the obvious in any way related to your patience concerning the reality of the non-existent? Gosh, you're a funny guy! You're not anything like an ordinary person. Aren't you glad!

MM
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:35:30 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Magnificent Martian
Subject: MM, can you come down a little
Message:
closer to earth and ask me in plain English? Your questions are too convoluted. Sarcasm must be used sparingly, for flavor, not when you need specifics.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 01:31:19 (EDT)
From: MM
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp, can you get off it?
Message:
Shp:

It's not an obscure criticism, just because it looks that way to you. Specifically, if Jim ever had the experience you mentioned he knows enough to see it as magical thinking, now. Are you just trying to share the magic with him/us, or are you asking for his/our advice? Umm... I guess some people don't see any use for a sow's ear unless it's there to make silk purses. Faith really is silly sometimes, and being habitually inappropriate about it changes you. It makes you wierd. It's not an obscure criticism, just because it seems that way to you.

MM
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 01:30:19 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ok, Jim
Message:
1) Aren't you saying that in the past Maharaji has answered you with a 'wordless response' even before you'd finish writing, let alone mailing, your letter?

Yes, with explanation. Was it Maharaji or my imagination? It felt like his energy and presence on a really good day, if you know what I mean. It did not feel like my imagination. If you look back at my quote I said I'd 'feel a wordless response', and often experience the forth technique at those times in abundance. What I recognized it to be over time was my own indwelling spirit, having been opened up to the Knowledge of itself, responding to my reaching out...not Prem Pal sitting in Malibu with some joystick messing with my life like a cosmic videogame. I felt like it was the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Reaching out to Maharaji and having all this neat stuff trigger inside of me almost simultaneously verified that he was involved with my inner life and had a most positive effect on it when paid attention to, even from far away. Perhaps I associated the feeling with his person in the beginning because he was the one who revealed Knowledge to me. And no, I did not hear 'voices' or visualize a big '8' ball with the answers on the bottom floating around in water like a fortune telling toy telling me to 'ask again later' or such. I would just get a feeling about it. A subtle thing but real to me. I don't think he wants groupies, I think he wants mature people (it has been decades for many) who can stand on their own feet and have a connection with him via their own experience of Knowledge within. It is such a personal thing with different unique manifestations for each soul, yet the same common core experience.

2) Aren't you saying that 'practising every day' might enable you to receive an answer from Maharaji this way?

No. Practicing every day might increase the chances of my having the experience I described above, but not necessarily the specific answer to my question.

That's why, no matter what kind of wonderful inner feelings I may get about this, I still want a third dimensional answer right here where we live on earth via paper/pen, e-mail, phone, telegram, open meeting, private meeting, whatever. Is this clear enough?

Comments, questions, rebuttals, objections, popcorn, peanuts...?

If not, it's your turn.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 09:01:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: That's inconsistent
Message:
Shp,

In response to my first question, whether or not you think that Maharaji has answered you internally in the past, you said 'yes, with an explanation'. You then elaborated as to how you thought it all worked. I can see several places where you seem to waver back and forth over the line on several concepts but that's not important. What matters is that your answer is 'yes'. Yes, you thought Maharaji answered you internally.

Your answer to the second question -- aren't you saying that practising every day might enable you to recieve an answer form Maharaji internally? -- was as follows:

No. Practicing every day might increase the chances of my having the experience I described above, but not necessarily the specific answer to my question.

That's why, no matter what kind of wonderful inner feelings I may get about this, I still want a third dimensional answer right here where we live on earth via paper/pen, e-mail, phone, telegram, open meeting, private meeting, whatever. Is this clear enough?


You're being inconsistent. You start off saying that yes, Maharaji can answer you inside. You then go on to explain how that works. Not that you're really sure of the mechanism but, at the end of the day, it's your belief that somehow Maharaji, whoever he might be, has responded to you internally. Then you say that practising everyday might increase the chances of having the 'experience [you] describe above' but 'not necessarily the specific answer to [your] question'.

Well, Shp, the 'experience you describe above' is, by your own definition, Maharaji answering you internally. Therefore, if you put it together, what you're really saying is 'yes, practising every day might increase the chances of Maharaji answering me internally....'.

That's the only way your words add up. There's no way around it.

But then you tag on this apparent qualifier about a 'specific' answer. Following my point above, unless you're irrational, your sentence must be equivalent to saying 'yes, practising every day might increase the chances of Maharaji answering me internally but not necessarily the specific answer to my question'.

This doesn't make sense. In fact, once again, it seems like an attempt to try to weasel out of something. You've already, by your own definition, explained that Maharaji can answer your questions internally. Your questions, whatever they are, are their own 'specific' selves. You've already admitted that you believe Maharaji can answer them. This is your own terminology, don'r forget. Your ideas, your terminology. So you're just contradicting yourself by trying to complicate your position here, sorry 'qualify' your position. There's no room.

In short, Shp, it'd be like saying 'practising every day might increase the chances of Maharaji answering my questions internally but, by that, I don't mean to say that he's answering my questions.' That would be nonsense, yet that's what your qualification implies.

So, Shp, in summary, it does indeed appear that you believe that Maharaji can and does answer you internally and that every day practise increases the likelihood of this phenomenon. Therefore, it's not true to say that you don't believe this. Therefore this is what you meant by your original comment.

In that case, then, you really were explaining that, in your view, one way Maharaji might answer your email is internally. That that's a real possibility. Accordingly, you weren't telling the truth when you denied this. And, unless you've got some further comment on the matter, I'd say that's about that.

Now, you then add on this comment about how you'd prefer some other form of communication. Sorry, Shp, that's simply beside the point.

Your comments?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:21:41 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: hey jim
Message:
As I read what is going on- I think you are very close to the point of the problem.

It is very true to me that when I am in the middle of some formm of crisis or problem, or even a question or a circumstance that is stretching my emotions, or when I want a new angle on something , and I am not finding it externally, I relax and do a some form of meditaiton. Ths results is that my emotions or over active thoughts to get into perspective.
This is what I label as the process of getting the answer.But this also requires a refocusing on the external. It is a combination of self control and intuition and opening up.

So it is a combination of logic and external observations combined with my inner processing and laced with the intangible or inspiration or the results of the meditaion.

The trouble is that sheep is attributing all that process to Malarky.
However, anybody who bothers to go through some sort of similar process gets the answer. Hence the dozens of ways to meditate that are pedaled today.

It may be that sheep is using M. as a point of focus like in martial arts.
But he is attributing much more to the focal point because he has been brainwashed.

Maybe you are headed this way.

Sheep is used to cleverly articulating only on a certain level.
Because critical thinking has been discouraged he reverts into the denial reflex or using humor, banter or insults to deflect what is coming at him.
Its like favoring one leg to compenstae for a weakness in the other. He limps. He shuffles .He hesitates. He changes tack. He slithers.

We all use these tactics but premies have it in virus.
If sheep was in therapy he would be confronted every time he slid around.
If he was a horse he would be hobbled.

The fact that he is engaging in dialogue may be increasing all this justification and denial stuff.

When someone goes to AA for the first time , arent they encouraged to only listen to other peoples stories and histories first?

If a first timer gets up and pontificates about how he is not an alchaholic, then the whole room knows what is going on.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:37:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Good thinking, cp
Message:
Hey, that must be some kind of manmot curse -- good thinking!

But it is. I think you're probably completely right about Shp and no, I never knew that about AA. Seems right on target. Thanks much.

By the way, have you noticed how two-faced this guy can be? He tries to be so solicitous of us? Check out how he describes us to Catweasel, his fellow mind-in-ajar:

Sounds like the name of a pretty tenacious critter, Catweasel.
I hear what you are saying. These guys are like the Republican
party (political) in the USA. Every time they make a thought provoking point, they get overly excited, anticipating some sort of 'victory' (as if that's what this is about), and shoot themselves in the foot. There must be a $25.00 word for that.
I think you came close to it in your previous post.


What he was referring to was Cat's typical splenetic:

Shp dont worry,HE DOESNT EXIST other than on this site!!!And what he says is total bullshit and it's only here,that he can suck 'premies ' into his stupid inane versions of things he does'nt understand and never did
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:27:42 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The word was
Message:
'stupidity'.

Where are the answers you said you'd give me?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 23:34:04 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good thinking, cp
Message:
J'e suis ne parle le francais.

Whats a manmot curse?
(I havent seen star wars yet)
Please identify this reference when you get a break in your thread.
Does it effect the grocking?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:23:41 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Comments
Message:
If you will allow me the space to correct myself without getting the boiling oil heated up and the rack strung....some of us are not as articulate as others, but that doesn't mean there is intentional misleading, i.e. lying.

Perhaps a better choice of word instead of 'answer' would have been 'acknowledge'. Like that little green card on a registered letter. It acknowledges delivery, but is not the answer. That's
a more accurate choice of words. I stand corrected.

Are your answers to my questions posted yet?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 19:28:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Time to come clean maybe?
Message:
If you will allow me the space to correct myself without getting the boiling oil heated up and the rack strung....some of us are not as articulate as others, but that doesn't mean there is intentional misleading, i.e. lying.

Perhaps a better choice of word instead of 'answer' would have been 'acknowledge'. Like that little green card on a registered letter. It acknowledges delivery, but is not the answer. That's
a more accurate choice of words. I stand corrected.


Shp, what are you saying now? That what you really meant was that Maharaji can 'acknowledge' your question internally? Is that it?

I wouldn't try that one, Shp. It won't work. It's bullshit. Again, you said this:

I don't know if this used to happen to you, but in years past when I would have something to say to Maharaji, I'd feel a wordless response of just real nice energy coming back to me on inner planes before I would even finish writing it, let alone mail it.
And the answer would be sort of 'blowing in the wind'. (I don't mean 'inner agya', either.) That hasn't happened with this most recent letter. But then again, I haven't been practicing every day either. That may have something to do with it. I remain patient for now.


Shp, this isn't a matter of being 'articulate' so much as a question of honesty. Are you saying you don't know the meaning of the word 'response'? How about 'answer'? Not too tricky, I'd say. And here, Shp, you elaborate on your views:

No. Practicing every day might increase the chances of my having the experience I described above, but not necessarily the specific answer to my question.

That's why, no matter what kind of wonderful inner feelings I may get about this, I still want a third dimensional answer right here where we live on earth via paper/pen, e-mail, phone, telegram, open meeting, private meeting, whatever. Is this clear enough?


It's clear that in the first paragraph directly above you're saying that, as far as you know, it's possible (although not inevitable) that you might get the 'specific answer' to your question. Furthermore, in your second paragraph, by saying that you 'still want a third dimensional answer' you're still saying that you can get some other kind internally. And, of course,this completely jives with your origianl comment that Maharaji would sometimes answer you internally if you started a letter to him.

Remember, Shp, we're not talking about whether you could feel his presence. He's the Lord. He's in your heart. He's your breath. You can always feel him. No, your claim was that he would answer your questions internally.

And no, Shp, 'answering' and 'acknowledging' are far too different for me -- or probably anyone -- to believe that even you, now, think they mean the same thing. Think about it. You have a question for Maharaji, you write him a letter. If all you got back was an acknowledgement that he'd received it that wouldn't be much better than a registered mail receipt. You'd still want an answer. Besides, like I was saying, Maharaji's omnipresent isn't he? Why would he 'acknowledge' your question? You already know he's everywhere, knowing everything.

So what's going on here? I'd say that you're a spineless creep. You just don't have the basic integrity to admit your mistakes. Not to mischaracterize them but to admit them for what they are. You're on the hook, Shp. Quit wiggling.

But now, Shp, I want to put things in perspective a bit. You called me a ton of names all related to how I supposedly 'twist' things. You tried to attack my character and even my profession. Really, your whole lawyer thing, in light of this big mess you've created for yourself is royally pathetic.

But look what you're doing now? Now you're snivelling about how 'inarticulate' you are, how it was all a mistake,whatever. The fact is, creep, you, not I, have been the one twisting words. Isn't that so?

What's with you new age idiots that you can never admit you're wrong? No, not mistaken, not, gee whiz, golly shucks, who me? mistaken.

But your'e really such an untrustworthy piece of work, these protestations of would-be innocent mistake fall particularly flat when, at the same time, you're gloating with Catweasel about what dorks we all are.

Are your answers to my questions posted yet?

No.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 20:45:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I can't believe it .. almost
Message:
So it appears that Shp has left the building. At least that's what he told Mike in a thread below. Forgive me for being cynical, but I do note that not being here is just another way of never having to say you're sorry.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:30:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I sent him one too
Message:
In commemoration of Shp taking off I sent Maharaji the following:

Maharaji,

Did you ever get an email from Sanford Pass, one of your devotees, asking what you knew about Jagdeo's tendency to molest premie kids in the seventies and what you did to stop him? Mr. Pass claims that he sent you one but that you never answered. I guess that's not surprising seeing how you recently explained your noble attitude towards criticism: ignore it.

Maharaji, if there is a God -- no not you, silly -- I hope he makes you feel just a fraction of the weight of the misery you've wrought on this world. I guess what I'm praying for is that God give you back your conscience. Plus the guts to look into it.

Maharaji, Mr. Pass suggested that sometimes, when he writes you a question, he can feel your answer even before he mails it. You know, I'm starting to feel something myself. I feel like throwing up.

Wish you were here,

Jim
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:48:45 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Who Is M to you?
Message:
I felt like it was the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Reaching out to Maharaji and having all this neat stuff trigger inside of me almost simultaneously verified that he was involved with my inner life and had a most positive effect on it when paid attention to, even from far away.

I'm a little confused, Sandy. Are you saying that M is consciously aware of your present dilemna and answering your questions in a psychic fashion, or are you just saying that whenever you think of Maharaji you get a nice little buzz which he probably doesn't know about? Or are you saying that M is just sort of there, a God-made-man kind of creature, that just emanates comfort from wherever he is to whomever wishes to tap into it? Or is it something else entirely you're trying to say?
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:33:58 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You call this fresh?
Message:
Shp answered you. Why don't you answer him?
There was no condition about you agreeing with his answers or questioning his truthfulness. You are one hedging sonofabitch.
I was agreeing with you for awhile, but as fucked up as Shp is, he's right about one topheavy kanuk, eh you hoser? You are a disgrace to the Maple Leaf. Step up or shut up.

Now you tell me to go fuck myself, I know the drill. I don't want to be anywhere near you when your chickens come home to roost.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 21:47:27 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Read the manual
Message:
Shp answered you. Why don't you answer him?
There was no condition about you agreeing with his answers or questioning his truthfulness. You are one hedging sonofabitch.
I was agreeing with you for awhile, but as fucked up as Shp is, he's right about one topheavy kanuk, eh you hoser? You are a disgrace to the Maple Leaf. Step up or shut up.
Now you tell me to go fuck myself, I know the drill. I don't want to be anywhere near you when your chickens come home to roost.


I love the courageous anonymous pot shot. Always makes a strong impression.

Listen, bud, here's what I offered Shp:

Anyway, I've offered to answer your question so long as we first dealt with the issue at hand.

As far as I'm concerned we haven't finished dealing with the issue at hand. So you can go fuck yourself too. Alright?

By the way, Shp's split. He told Mike as much like I said. I read that as him taking off just as he was running out of lies about what he said and what he meant. What's your take? Do you think Shp finished 'dealing' with this issue? Yes or no?

No, on second thought, I don't care what you think. I don't know you, have never heard from you before for all I know. You post this one anonymous piece of garbage. Why should I care about you? Is there even a you to care about? For all I know your post was generated by some random thingamujigger.
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:26:27 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Roll your manual up real nice
Message:
and tight and shove it up your ass, manually.

I post anonymously because you are such an asshole you don't deserve to know who I am. I am just a premie...or an ex-premie... or an observer...who loves him or herself enough to keep you
at arm's length, having seen you in action with more than one person. But my anonymity shouldn't matter. The anonymity thing is your red herring, for your fucking information.

I read Shp's post to Mike about leaving. He predicted that you would accuse him of running away. Purely circumstantial. Shp can come and go as he pleases, but at any point he'd leave you could pull that shit out of your ears and accuse him of running away.
It seems that Shp finally knows you. And so do I. Bully for him!
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 22:51:17 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: That's funny
Message:
I read Shp's post to Mike about leaving. He predicted that you would accuse him of running away. Purely circumstantial. Shp can come and go as he pleases, but at any point he'd leave you could pull that shit out of your ears and accuse him of running away.

Well, of course I accuse him of running away. Don't you? Does it matter that he predicted I would? Don't see how myself unless it's to show that Shp can be right about the odd thing too. And sure he can come and go as he pleases. Hell, fella, when you get right down to it, he can even run away as he pleases. But he wouldn't always be running away. This time he is, though. He's been cornered by lies to excuse lies to excuse lies. None of it was working. He finally gave up. So?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:58:56 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: mbvictoria@hotmail
To: Jim
Subject: Just for the record, Jim.....
Message:
...what are your answers to his two questions, anyway? I'm curious to know and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Mel
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 11:21:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Sorry, Mel
Message:
No desert(...dessert?) Testing, one, two...testing... is this thing on?

Yes, Mel, can you hear me?

No dessert before dinner.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 15:19:10 (EDT)
From: Sandra
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: You call this fresh?
Message:
Yep, I've read his shtick a few times. He attempts verbal intimidation...a classic bully. He thinks his brain has laser-like precision but it just burns anyone who gets near him. Clearly not a UL-approved mechanism. Some major over-compensation going on here for God-knows-what. The kind of guy my girlfriends and I would stay a million miles away from.

Some people here feel like suckers for spending time with M, who actually teaches something worthwhile and has been known, on occasion, to bring people into a state of ecstasy. What are they going to feel like when they realize they've been spending their time absorbing the collected wit and wisdom of Jim Heller?
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 16:02:32 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: You call this fresh?
Message:
Sandra?????? Do you really mean that M 'has been known, on occasion, to bring people into a state of ecstasy?'

How? When,exactly? Under what circumstances? Who witnessed M ACTUALLY doing ANYthing? Unless, of course, you are referring to his permitting mahatmas to 'see the light' thru child molestation or banging someone in the head with a hammer. Somehow, that doesn't move my 'ecstacy meter' at all.

By the way, what makes you think that Jim (or any other male) would want to get within a 'million miles' of YOU (a cult-following fanatic)? You have some ego even mentioning stuff like that Sandra (like it has ANY bearing on the discussions here).
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 22:06:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Maharaji's date rape drug
Message:
Yep, I've read his shtick a few times. He attempts verbal intimidation...a classic bully. He thinks his brain has laser-like precision but it just burns anyone who gets near him. Clearly not a UL-approved mechanism. Some major over-compensation going on here for God-knows-what. The kind of guy my girlfriends and I would stay a million miles away from.

Sandra,

This is so funny. Shp calls me a word twister then ends up apologizing for trying to put square words in round holes. Now you say I want to intimidate but, Sandra, I'm the one who feels threatened! Certain things you said in your post ... well, they make me think you're cancelling Saturday night. And here I thought I was going to spend the night with you and your girlfriends. Or at least some of you. You know, I thought we were going to all take in a video or something. Maybe get together a little bit and do some of that new premie socializing. Hm?
So what's the message here? Premie girls say yes to boys who say Happy New Breath? Come on, Sandra, give me the key that unlocks your heart? What is it? Make nice with Shp? Is that it? Is that all it's going to take to share your Gratitude, to feel your Appreciation? To wander blissfully in your garden of Understanding? Come on, Sandra. It's Friday already. (Sorry, Laur. Just kidding! You know.)

Some people here feel like suckers for spending time with M, who actually teaches something worthwhile and has been known, on occasion, to bring people into a state of ecstasy.

Yes, well we know all about that. Hug, hug, smooch, smooch, and you wake up eight years later, groggy, can barely think straight. Hey, these aren't my clothes? And what town am I in? All I remember is dropping in at the Y some night and hearing some people talking about .... shit, I can't even remember.

What are they going to feel like when they realize they've been spending their time absorbing the collected wit and wisdom of Jim Heller?

Well, if they're lucky they'll buy the coffe table edition from Visions. $40 gets you a full 23-page collection of good questions and bad answers. Tell you what, Sandra sweetie. You keep our date tomorrow night and I'll let you look at mine.
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:45:36 (EDT)
From: CS
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Once upon a time...
Message:
there was a sandbox. The owner of the sandbox told all the kids in the neighborhood that they could play in it if they got along.
Every now and then when he would hear a commotion, he would send one of his good friends to remind the kids to get along and lay out the basic rules of conduct. But no matter what, the sand became and remained caked with blood and the remains of kids who had been killed by other kids who wanted a toy or more space and weren't willing to share. Needless to say, this really pissed off the owner of the sandbox. Once he even flooded it to clean it out and get rid of the murderous gangs who hung out there.

Finally, he sent his best friend to try to straighten the situation out. This friend had a way with words and took all the rules and boiled them down into one or two: Love and respect the owner of the sandobx, be grateful and take care of it, and also love and respect each other. That was it. And even though it was
made so easy, the kids still persisted in hurting and killing each other. Not only that, they killed the friend that the owner had sent.

And you know what? The gross disobedience of the kids in that sandbox was so great that some of the kids who thought they were smarter than the rest created things like judicial systems, legal systems, the military, and so on, thinking they were going to make things right their own way, not the way the owner wanted it, and these arrogant kids also profited bigtime from the suffering of their fellow playmates. So what happened was that the killing and all the rest kept going on, but some of those kids had real comfy incomes.

The sandbox won't be peaceful until the owner's rules are followed.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:01:45 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: CS
Subject: wishful cult thinking
Message:
Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the allegory and good intentions.

I wish to God that such would be true, but I've grown up and become a realist and a pragmatist.

A friend of mine told me a little story about how ants when their colony is damaged, say by stepping on it, will race back in and rescue the eggs or larvae or whatever they're called. Then the ants will march off in one direction carrying the eggs to build a new colony. However, there's always some ants that carry the eggs off into a completely random direction where the egg will die because not enough ants are available to build a new nest.

Of course, we can consider some natural survival mechanism to this abnormal behavior. Or another explanation is, simply, that these ants have bad brains, bad programming and that's how it is. It nature. It's a bell curve of animal behavior. Really no great mystery.

So, your story really doesn't fit the model of nature. It's a nice wishful dream that will most likely never come true by definition that we are all animals and made and operate according to the rules of nature. There will be good people and there will be bad people.

So, I read your fable and I see where you wanna go with it. And I've been there and it didn't turn out that way. The reality is that in Maharaji's world Maharaji's people treat each other like shit as much, if not more, than in the real world. And many people have experienced Maharaji, himself, treating people like shit.

Look at Fakiranand hitting Pat Haley in the head with hammer. I've got my own countless examples of how I've been treated and how I treated others. And you might have examples of the same. And then you've got your Catweasels and other strange characters hanging around here trying to make people feel like shit.

As beautiful as your fable sounds and as much as I'd like to see it happen, I know that it's not real. Rather than being real, it's a sales pitch, one that cannot ever be fulfilled, to bring people in or in this case back to Maharaji. And, we aren't going to buy it anymore. To use the cliche: Been there, done that.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:29:38 (EDT)
From: CS
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: wishful thinking is good
Message:
Dear Barney,

'So, your story really doesn't
fit the model of nature.'
You are correct on this point, but nonetheless and unfortunately it is our human history on this planet simplified. I agree with you in that human beings have not fit into the model of nature as we were intended to from the beginning.

'Rather than being real, it's a sales pitch,
one that cannot ever be fulfilled, to bring
people in or in this case back to Maharaji.'
You are incorrect on this point. Your pessimism is not good for you, and when it's shared by the masses, that's why the vision will never be fulfilled. As for being a sales pitch, there's no selling going on. And as for bringing people 'in' or back to Maharaji, that's up to each inidividual. Nobody 'brings' you anywhere but you. Take responsibility for your actions and don't blame others for your moves. It weakens you. The only thing we need to be brought back to is our senses, and I don't mean just the 5 obvious ones. Maharaji happens to be someone who assists in the awakening of our highest and most subtle sense.
I don't think everyone who doesn't subscribe to him will go to hell, so there is no problem, correct?
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 14:48:06 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: CS
Subject: wishful thinking is good
Message:
It took me awhile to overcome your semantic label of me as a pessimist. However, I'm no longer buying that kind of stuff anymore. Take the standard cliche of Is the glass half empty or half full? Well, that's a setup. The reality is that the glass contains 5 ml. of liquid.

Being free from the magical thinking of Maharaji and the Cult has allowed me to work on my neglected ability to think critically, which is the first thing that is taken away from people upon entering the cult.

I agree with you in that human beings have not fit into the model of nature as we were intended to from the beginning.

The above statement assumes something that can never be proved. You have absolutely no way to back this up. Impossible!

Everywhere in nature or even the physical universe is the predator and prey model. This is even at the molecular, atomic and sub-atomic level if I can abuse physics. Everything is subject to consumption and decay.

Sure, now I've left you a hole with which to drive your truck through. Yes, there is that inner experience of Knowledge or whatever you want to call it. And it is available through teachers other than Maharaji. And I know that you will say that it is eternal and I will ask you for proof that you cannot provide. Unfortunately, we'll never really know, will we?

As for being a sales pitch, there's no selling going on.

No, you made your pitch. The pitch is that there can be World Peace if all people would just take Maharaji's Knowledge and have that true understanding of the purpose of life. World peace is really hard to argue with. It a loaded supposition.

You see, I've gone somewhere where you haven't gone yet - I've left the cult of Maharaji. I can see clearly now. I'm no longer under the direct influence of the constant brainwash that is so sweet and insidious like wanting world peace, inner peace, and harmony and all that good stuff - the carrot on a stick. I can be critical of such messages because I am no longer bound by cult thinking. And that makes me feel free and allows me to take responsibility for my actions. No, that is not being a pessimist at all. It's being real as much as my limited human nature allows me to be. Thank god!

Finally, you can still meditate on Maharaji's techniques and have an experience. I am not arguing that point. You don't have to through the baby out with the bathwater, but that water is so dirty that a lotus could not survive.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:24:55 (EDT)
From: CS
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: wishful thinking is good
Message:
Barney,

I agree with you in that human beings have not fit into the model of nature as we were intended to from the beginning. -CS

The above statement assumes something that can never be proved. You have absolutely no way to back this up. Impossible! -Barney

Yes I do. -CS

No, you made your pitch. -Barney

My 'pitch' did not mention or involve Maharaji, but if you think he has something to do with it, maybe you should follow that feeling up just to be sure. -CS

You see, I've gone somewhere where you haven't gone yet -Barney

You could stick your head in a full toilet and say the same thing.
-CS

but that water is so dirty that a lotus could not survive.-Barney

Poetic, but untrue. -CS
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:38:08 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: CS
Subject: you've said nothing
Message:
you have failed to say anything that contains any real substance.

you replies hold no water

oh, CS, don't tell me what I haven't experienced. I've experienced Knowledge. I know what it's about. Okay, maybe you have made it to that stage of permanent ever-lasting enlightenment - something which I only tasted, something that you can attain elsewhere.

You see when it comes down to a full press premies start squirming around because they cannot answer with anything reasonable and start talking about that intangible experience. Well, we aren't people on the street. We know the game. We know where it goes. It doesn't work here.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 18:12:17 (EDT)
From: CS
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: nothing new under the sun
Message:
Barney,

In checkers the pieces move one way and in chess they move another. In this game here, you don't get it. Nobody has to answer anybody, nobody has to prove anything, nobody has to justify anything. It's all voluntary.

Everyone here, premie and ex alike, is pouring attention towards Maharaji. Same game, different opinions about it.

If a new game is what you are looking for, it's a big world out there. Go for it.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 04:14:26 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: soon to be ***Best*** (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:13:48 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Stinks to high heaven
Message:
Sandra,

I don't think he or anyone was born that way. But that's no excuse. There's enough ways to clear one's past bullshit in these here '90's, but from what I've gather ed so far he won't until enough people bust him. He works the room like a stormtrooper. And he's got so many intimidated that it could take awhile for a quorum to get up the gumption to have a face off.

Sandra, I think I know you. Here's a clue: 1977, trip to LA for Hansi's first birthday, you helped me....is that you? If so, keep it to yourself. Later.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 00:12:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: I smell a date
Message:
Sandra, I think I know you. Here's a clue: 1977, trip to LA for Hansi's first birthday, you helped me....is that you? If so, keep it to yourself. Later.

You guys gonna get together or something? Can I watch?
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 01:28:23 (EDT)
From: Sister Racquel
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Premie men Not to avoid....
Message:
We have been thinking of publishing a catalogue of premie guys who date premie women as a hobby.
would you and you friends like the list?
They are guaranteed to have all the requisite - shallow lines, intimacy avoidance techniques, insipid grins, teenage emotions, nice suits.
Many have been around since the 70s- so they are really good at it.
You girls can get the first edition of the catalogue.
We'll keep you posted.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 08:42:48 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Voyeurism
Message:
Sure son, you can watch. No cameras, cellular phones, beepers (set 'em on vibrate), or recording devices of any sort. Hold all questions until we're done. And wear raingear.

The only way I can figure you watching us is:
a) We all meet somewhere in 3-D's.
b) We all get icu cameras and mics hooked up and do a three way.
You have to pay for your own equipment.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 17:59:44 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're grounded, young man
Message:
I said you could watch if Sandra and me get together, but I have been reviewing you files. You have two outstanding unanswered questions that Shp asked you, and Mel also wanted to know.

After reviewing the files, I have determined that Shp is not down on the legal profession here. He seems to understand that it is a necessary evil for now. What he questions is you personally, as to how you can live such a double-standard life. What I hear him asking you is quite simple and lucid.

You may watch Sandra and me after those questions are answered.
From what I've gathered from your past performance, you will most
likely curse me out either gross or subtle style, depending on your mood, and say something like you never wanted to watch us in the first place. A 'fuck off' will probably follow posthaste.

Surprise me. Surprise us all. Answer the questions.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 18:28:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: You've got to be kidding
Message:
I said you could watch if Sandra and me get together, but I have been reviewing you files. You have two outstanding unanswered questions that Shp asked you, and Mel also wanted to know.

Unh-unh, pal, like I told Mel, it just don't work that way. Shp got caught trying to cut a hole in the tent for Maharaji to escape from. He denied it and called me all sorts of names for busting him. His main complaint was that I'd 'twisted' his words. He was a bit confused and didn't know what to do. One option he passed on was actually looking at his words 'point-by-point' to determine exactly what they fairly implied, i.e. what he hell he'd said. No, it was much easier and more fun for him to start whimpering about how I was bullying him. A number of people here, premies or not, are suckers for that ruse.

But we pressed on. At that point, Shp tried to dangle this blatant red herring in front of me, an entirely new, and unrelated question about my ethics. Like, what the fuck? Is this a joke or something? I guess that depends on what you call a joke. Talking with premies? Trying to talk with premies?

So I ignored him at first but that only encouraged him. Finally, I offered him a deal: if he first dealt with the statement he'd made about Maharaji answering his questions internally, I'd answer his questions. He accepted. Then, after yet more dissembling, guess what? He dissembled further. This time, tacitly conceding that his words just couldn't mean what he'd claimed until then they had meant, Shp shrugged his shoulders, saying that he's not all that 'articulate' and, aw shucks, you know....

At that point I reminded him that, although he'd screamed bloody murder about my twisting his words, he was now admitting that he was the one misusing language. I also told him that, in my opinion, he was clearly lying again in that there was no way he didn't mean what he'd said at time one. At that point he bailed.

As far as I'm concerned we haven't finished 'dealing' with that first issue. So why in the world should I answer Shp's question? Forget it.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 20:32:40 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No kidding
Message:
Jim,

May I ask you the answers to those questions?
And Mel wanted to know as well.
I think you would function better in general,
and here specifically, if your work did not contain
it it the element of 'acceptable losses' manifesting
as inocent people going to jail and guilty people walking.
I think that bothers the hell of of you. Then when you
come here to talk about justice, it just
doesn't seem to carry the same virtue. No offense.
I have some friends who are lawyers, and I can see
the toll it takes on them. Not the legal profession
but the bullshit factor embedded in it.
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 21:45:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Hey, maybe you're right
Message:
I'm not a psychologist (as if they know) but apparently you are. Maybe you're right to some extent, though. It's a wonderful feeling to fight for a guy you think's innocent. Any lawyer who says he's completely indifferent to that question must be fooling themself or maybe you. It just has to make a difference.

It's quite a leap, though, for you to extrapolate whatever sense of compromise I may have into a general effect on my comments here. I dunno. Maybe you know me better than I know myself. Maybe. On the other hand, you have no idea how a lawyer's inner compass gets configured until you've done the work for a while. Shp's question was pretty naive in that it seemed oblivious to a lot of the reasonable and porbably necessary trade-offs in the justice system. Really, I have absoltuely no problem talking about this. I was just appalled at his blatant attempt to both run from the subjcet at hand and try to impugn my integrity in the process. First deal with the subject, then impugn my integrity.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:13:30 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thank you Jim for answering
Message:
'I'm not a psychologist (as if they know) but apparently you are. Maybe you're right to some extent, though. It's a wonderful feeling to fight for a guy you think's innocent. Any lawyer who says he's completely indifferent to that question must be fooling themself or maybe you. It just has to make a difference.'

'Maybe you know me better than I know myself.'

-Jim Heller to Government Inspector 5/22/99

Dear Jim,
Thank you for your reply.
I am not a trained psychologist, though some people have told me I read people pretty well most of the time. I think Shp asked you how you would feel if you got somebody off you personally weren't
convinced was innocent yourself. Do you turn away clients to defend if you have strong doubts about their innocence?

By the way, I noticed above you goofed about Tom Hagan's identity.
Does that make you a liar?
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 22:21:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
Dear Jim,
Thank you for your reply.
I am not a trained psychologist, though some people have told me I read people pretty well most of the time.


Yeah? Is that what your ex-wife says?

I think Shp asked you how you would feel if you got somebody off you personally weren't
convinced was innocent yourself.


Proud for the most part. The whole focus at ath point is on the greater good of maintaining rigorous standards of proof for the prosecution. Maybe you don't agree but that is how all defense lawyers I know feel about winning a case like that.

Do you turn away clients to defend if you have strong doubts about their innocence?

No. Don't forget, if the case is all that air-tight for the prosecution there's always the prospect of a guilty plea.

By the way, I noticed above you goofed about Tom Hagan's identity.
Does that make you a liar?


If it was a mistake I'd be mistaken. If I'd meant to deceive I'd be a liar. As it was, I was joking. Shp pretended he was mistaken. There is absolutely no way in the world that could be true. He knows it and that's why, I believe, he took off.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 09:56:36 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
Jim,

I have no ex-wife in this lifetime.

Once again, I think Shp asked you how you would feel if you got somebody off you personally weren't convinced was innocent yourself, and you replied:

'Proud for the most part. The whole focus at ath point is on the greater good of maintaining rigorous standards of proof for the prosecution. Maybe you don't agree but that is how all defense lawyers I know feel about winning a case like that.'

How about a case of child molestation? Could you conceivably find yourself in a situation at work where you get an accused child molestor to defend? Somebody who really gives you the creeps, someone who your own common sense and all your acute perceptiveness are screaming at you inside that this guy's dirty?
From what you have already said, it sound like you'd defend that person and be proud if you got them off. For what? In the name of 'the greater good of maintaining rigorous standards of proof for the prosecution', you'll be an willing accessory to allowing a child molestor to walk among our families?

And as for your line 'Maybe you don't agree but that is how all defense lawyers I know feel about winning a case like that', I have to laugh a little. So the 'everybody else is doing it' is your opinion of having high standards?

Then, after you tell me you'll defend someone who you think might very well be guilty and be proud if you got them off, you flip to your renowned intuitive side and say 'Shp pretended he was mistaken.' How the hell do you know for sure what was his motives were? Don't waste your time answering this one...YOU DON'T.

So let's summarize. You would defend someone who you personally thought might very well be guilty of child molestation and be proud if you got them off in the name of 'the greater good of maintaining rigorous standards of proof for the prosecution'.
Your rationale is that 'that is how all defense lawyers I know feel about winning a case like that'. Doesn't look good, Jim.

The wisdom and justice of Solomon came from his own self, intuition, brainpower, and heart. That is why his wisdom is still venerated to this day, because it was true and real. Do you think
your brand of wisdom and justice will be venerated thousands of years from now? I doubt it.

Maharaji would shelter one of his sick people for his reasons, but your reasons for sheltering someone with a similar sickness are obviously pathetic.

It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that you are
talking out of both sides of your head. You look like Rosie O'Donnell, a USA TV talk show host who has been reaming guests like Tom Selleck (USA actor) about gun control, since he did an ad for the NRA. Then she got found out. She's a spokesperson for K-Mart (USA discount store) and they sell all kinds of guns and accessories. Your credibility is in question by your own words.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 10:01:58 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Roger Drek
Subject: *Roger, make room for this one
Message:
Dear Roger,

It has been brought to my attention that you host an area which contains choice cuts, so to speak. I urge you to check out this dialog I have been having with Jim, going back a few posts.

You might want to entitle it: 'People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.'
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 14:55:38 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Ain't gonna be no ***Best***
Message:
Out here in my private Idaho we don't much take to being told what to do by the guvernment, if you know what ah mean.

GI, I've been following this conversation. Partly, trying to figure you out and partly to watch Jim and see what all the screaming about Jim is about.

What have I seen?

I've seen up to now a pretty good discussion with both of you being quite reasonable, articulate, and lucid. But, I'm seeing the possibility of a train wreck here as your post is a bit baiting in an effort to trap Jim to which he might get annoyed. IMO, the discussion has just gone down a notch where you're making a desperate effort to corner Jim and give him an indefensible position. And the discussion might have no where to go but down and end with a Fuck Off. Not that I want to speak for Jim and he may be able to reply in a way to bring the discussion out of the gutter, but your agenda is now apparent.

Depending on where you're at in the spectrum of Law and Order, I'd have to agree entirely with Jim about the importance of the greater good of maintaining rigorous standards of proof for the prosecution.

Sure, I don't condone child molestation and your example approaches the classic when did you stop beating your wife baiting. However, at issue is the need for rigorous standards of proof to keep the guv'ment from just taking us away one by one and locking us up in work camps in Siberia.

Then again, you're back east in Washington and I'm up here on Ruby Ridge.

So, this ain't gonna make Roger's Best of the Forum.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:03:17 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Ain't gonna be no ***Best***
Message:
Roger,

You don't know what government I'm an inspector for. Could be the same government that you believe in, too. Also, the point is not with the legal system. It is a necessary evil and is here for now. But for Jim to be an active and willing participant in it, and then to come here and blast people seems to be ludicrous at best. I am not cornering anyone. I am merely bringing out the facts as they already exist and line them out.

A) Jim could conceivably defend an accused child molestor that he himself really feels is guilty, win the case, and be proud of it by his own admission, allowing someone he personally doesn't trust to walk around and quite possibly do it some more. And he could hide behind the system, etc. What about personal accountability and conscience? Certain jobs are not for everybody, and soemone who presents himself as high and mighty as Jim should make sure he himself is not exposed before he goes after others.

B) Jim then comes online like a knight in shining armor on speed with a dirty mouth. I think you are being a bit partial here,
Roger.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:56:56 (EDT)
From: G.I.
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Ain't gonna be no ***Best***
Message:
Roger,

Your words were 'And the discussion might have no where to go but down and end with a Fuck Off.'

Wrong. If what I am saying is true he could admit it and deal with whatever ensues. The 'Fuck Off' defense doesn't work and never did. It is a ploy, a puffed up strategy, a wall. No one should be allowed to get off that easy, just to talk like a drunken sailor (no offense to our boys in uniform) and walk away.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 12:33:45 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
GI,

Maharaji would shelter one of his sick people for his reasons, but your reasons for sheltering someone with a similar sickness are obviously pathetic.

Are you saying Maharaji sheltered Jagdeo and Hammer Head? Where were they sheltered? I know Hammer Head left via Chicago. Jagdeo, I'm not sure YET.

What were his reasons for sheltering his 'sick people'? To protect his sorry arse?

Don't forget GI the CHILDREN ARE NOT NEGOTIABLE.

I don't buy this kinder, gentler 'sick people' rap you've started spouting to compartmentalize the behaviors of your lard's emissaries.
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:13:41 (EDT)
From: Government Inspector
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
Mary,

How do you feel about the fact that Jim might find himself in a situation as an attorney where he would defend an accused child molestor (who he personally might have very strong feelings about being guilty) and be proud about it if he won, by his own admission.

He would, without batting an eyelash, utilize all of his formidable powers of argument, persuasion, lawyerly thinking, and his very life force, to cajole little children and other victims and make them doubt their own experiences and cloud their minds. For what? To win the case, not to ascertain the truth, Mary.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 19:49:31 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Government Inspector
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
GI,

I've not heard of Jim defending a pedophile. If Jim wants to share a 'practical experience' of this type of situation he knows where to e-mail me.

Maharaji's emissary Mahatma Jagdeo is a pedophile that appears to have gotten away with it.

I'm not keen on pedophiles that get out of jail time for thier crime or, as is usually the case, multiple 'crimes'. My experience with this type of situation 'as a prime witness' was to make sure there was lots of evidence and not buckle under while being deposed by the defense attorney.

I'm not interested in your baloney about Maharaji helping his sick friends. It's a cop out. You and M deserve each other - gutless wonders!

Mary
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Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 at 16:20:37 (EDT)
From: G.I.
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Don't mention it
Message:
Mary,

To summarize, I agree with you that chldren are not negotiable.

My mention of Maharaji and the others was in reference to the conversation here. I have no inside information. It was more like a 'what if'.

But Mary, if children are not negotiable, what about the ones who
might have to face Jim in a court of law whose job it might be to defend someone he strongly feels is guilty of the same crime?
What about those children?
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Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:56:44 (EDT)
From: Careless Castinyoga (CC)
Email: galactic address
To: EV One: Humor :)
Subject: PRACHAR WARS: PREMHASOLD 1
Message:
Hi Everyone...I just purchased and read the Illustrated Screenplay to Star Wars, to diminish the FORCE of the hype to see it...Now that I KNOW the entire plot, I can shrug it off...just like this web site does to Mahahahaharaji. SO! Here is fun 4U

PRACHAR
WARS

A wrong time ago, in a residence far, far away...

A vast sea of stars serves as the backdrop for the main title, followed by a roll-up, which crawls into infinity. Out of a donut of light comes the WORD

PREMHASOLD ONE:
THE RANT-OM MENACE

Discounts have engulfed the Whirled of Knowledge.
The wholesale merchandising of 4 Hindu meditation techniques by
its franchiser, Prem Pal Singed Rawat, and the Cultic Brainwashing
of his devotees, is in dispute by EX-members of Rawat's Elan Vital. (A 70’s Guru Cult known as Divine Light Mission, DUO, DECA, and Visions)

PPSR makes solvent the matter with an announcement
of 2 one-day Programmings; the greedy Rawat is again Master-baiting in Miami and Montreal. His usual strategy: to imply he is the One who gives the 'gift of breath' and the Sacred Knowledge, thus selling more stuff, and receiving thousands in tax-free donations for his jet plane, homes and megalomaniac dreams and desires.

Additionally, 'Serve-Us', is offered - work for the unpaid followers-but at their own expense. In exchange, they get to recall a 'feeling inside' -which they already have-and which goes away when they return home. It is this Bliss conditioning that makes them CO-dependent on the Maha-raji, once known to them as The Lord Of The Universe. Some still believe that ‘Guru is Greater than God!

While the Onliners of Ex-Premie.Org endlessly debate the usual Chains of an Event,The Supreme Webmaster has secretly dispatched two THREAD EYE KNIGHTS, the Guardians of Wisdom, Analysis and Creativity on the Internet, to settle the Consciousness. Their Purpose: To correct the Cults’ distorted Belief Systems
and the subsequent loss of time, money and sanity for generations
to come. Purpose Two: to assist those who want out.

PAN DOWN to reveal a small Audi heading toward the camera at slow speed. PAN with the vehicle as it heads towards the Miami Beach Convention Center; in front are hundreds of devotees of the Living Perfect Master, dressed to impress themselves.


RT-SAN: (off-screen voice) Usher, tell them I wish to be bored at once.
USHER DROID: Yes sir. Excuse me, with all due respect to Elan Vital sales hours, these Onliners for Ex-Premie.Org wishes aboard immediately.
ELAN VITAL SALES: Yes, yes, of course,..ahhh...as you know, our cult, uh, cute merchandise is perfectly legal within IRS loopholes, and we'd be happy to receive you...Master Card or Visa?

INT. SOUVENIR HALL OF DIVINE MERCHANDISE
A GREETING DROID, GD-4, stands at the door to the Merchandise Hall.
Two worker droids, TAPE STACKER 7, and PHOTO PINNER-UPPER 12, watch.


GD-4: Heh. He must be loaded if EV allowed one of those...thinking ex-premies into the program. Ming.
TS7: Mirage-ji says the door is always open. This guy really must want the latest Caracas video where you can see His feet - just barely tho! Only $29.95 and it’s a FULL 19 minutes! It’s usually $39.50...
PPU-13: It's beautiful, to see people who leave this Path return, with their wallets out; it’s like...an offering.

INT. HALLWAY

The door opens, the two cloaked Onliners are led into the festive convention hall by GD-4.

GD-4: I hope you honored souls will be most comfortable with Phase Two. My Master will be within you shortly.

The Usher Droid waves to RT-SAN and OBI-NON GURUPI.
The two THREAD EYE KNIGHTS lower their laptops and look out at a row of garish banners over the merchandise: VIDEOS, CLOTHING, MEDALLIONS, PROGRAM TAPES, PHOTOS, TRUST FUNDS.

RT-SAN, a veteran of 24 years in the Cult, is in his fourties. OBI-NON is but twenty-five, but his parents have had Knowledge since he was 7.


OBI-NON: I have a bad feeling about this.
RT-SAN: I sense a great increase in the Farce.
OBI-NON: It's not about out mission, man, it's something...elsewhere...elusive. Am I sensing...Devotion? Please, not more victims of incense!
RT-SAN: Don't center on their brainwashing, Obi-non, keep your concentration here and now where it belongs.
OBI-NON: Webmaster Brain says I should be mindful of the future postings...
RT-SAN: ...but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the Lying Farce, my dear non-premie. You're lucky: You heard the BS but never took indoctrination. I needed 9 months of THREAD EYE KNIGHT training to get clear...Still, you lost your parents’ help to DECA on the 747 project....they were broke for years. Be thankful for your college scholarship! Practice the Techniques I revealed to you, when you wish. The Knowledge is not the issue, it’s this pseudo inner relationship that Rawat warps people with.

INTERIOR-ELAN VITAL CUBICLE-DESK

HALL USHER 1 and EV 2 stand, stunned, before GD-4.

HU-1: (shaken) What?!? What did you say?
GD-4: These Ex-Premies are THREAD EYE KNIGHTS, I believe. Creative free thinkers!
EV-2: I knew it! They were sent to leave room for doubts! Don't talk to them or you're done for! There’s no reasoning with logic!
HU-1: Stay calm! I'll call security if they get too close to the stage, like 500 feet. Now, go. Distract them with the latest magazine until I can contact this premie I used to date, from The Residence Staff.
EV-2: Are you in your mind? I'm not going in there with those two THREAD EYES. Send the Usher. He's from Miami, anyway.

+

RT-SAN and OBI-NON sit at a cappuccino table near the T-shirts.

OBI-NON: Is it their habit to want this stuff? Desires are truly endless. Did you see this crap? Look: Airplane Barf-Bags, with Swans on them!

The concession door opens and Usher GD-4 enters with a stack of Introductory Brochures and magazines.

RT-SAN: NO...I sense an unusual amount of fear for something as trivial as a VISA purchase. Is the Media expected? It’s about time, I think...

Suddenly OBI-NON and RT-SAN turn off their computers and listen intently. A faint whining, pleading sound can be heard.

RT-SAN: Satsang Music! In the Main Hall!

OBI-NON and RT-SAN each take a sudden breath and hold it, as they insert industrial-strength earplugs. The premies around them freeze and look at a TV set: It’s a live feed and RAWAT is dancing on stage - half naked in a Mala - and THEY are missing it! Dozens of premies begin to fry! Some run, crashing into kiosks - and lose the ‘feeling of gratitude’—others actually think about losing a Darshan opportunity that they traveled hundreds of miles to experience - OH, to sway, mindless, with thousands of their brothers and sisters - for at least 2 minutes! It’s Holi Hell!

Only with calm, clear thinking and questioning, by THREAD EYE KNIGHTS, can they be saved. If they choose to.

RT-SAN: Quick! Boot up www.Ex-Premie.org...Forum III....
Start A New Thread.
From: Careless Castinyoga
Email: GALACTIC..
To: EV One
Subject: PRACHAR WARS: PREMHASOLD ONE

.
...to be continued?

MAY THE FARCE BE WITHOUT YOU...

JUST SAY KNOW

+++
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Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 22:56:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Careless Castinyoga (CC)
Subject: PRACHAR WARS: PREMHASOLD 1
Message:
Dear RT-San,
You are precious! I can just picture this spinning around your brain until you had to write it down! :) To funny.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 16:33:24 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: Robyn
Subject: PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun
Message:
Thanks Robyn, nice to see your (type)face! You were always kind and supportive of all. I think I would really really like to give you a hug someday.

Tell me, a year has passed, how did you do on the cobal training tip I sent ya last june?

FYI, the screenplay took me 4 hours to type and edit. ...while at work, on a slow day...well, it was for a good cause! Deconstructing a sad guru.

RT
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 10:32:28 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun
Message:
You're amazing, kid!
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 13:16:40 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: Gail
Subject: PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun
Message:
Thanks Gail! It's loosly based on the movie script so this is a... sneaky preview.
Working on Ch 2: Enter DARTH SMITHIUS, an INSTRUCTOR of the FARCE.

soon!

RT
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Date: Sat, May 22, 1999 at 16:24:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: RT
Subject: PRACHAR WARS screenplay fun
Message:
Dear RT,
I tried to email you last night and it wouldn't go through. If you would like to receive my email, email me at my address so I can email you. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 00:45:07 (EDT)
From: Roger Darth Vader
Email: None
To: Careless Castinyoga (CC)
Subject: ***Best*** More, please!
Message:
Roger Drek's Best of the Forum
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 08:28:59 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: ommm
To: See you Vader, Roger that
Subject: ***Best*** Less is More
Message:
RT-SAN: Next stop is Roger's House of Ashram Clearance Concepts.
OBI-NON: Holi Name, Atman! You mean...
RT-SAN: That's right, we're a classic, immortalized for the Planetary Database...at least until Y2K ...
OBI-NON: Oh, You mean, like a bharagon, but better?

t h a n k s

RT
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Date: Fri, May 21, 1999 at 23:26:59 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: ***Best*** More
Message:
I hope you will take us on more adventures RT.
There are so many good posts that we dont say 'bravo'
much otherwise the forum would be filled.
But your offerings are all read and on behalf of the group,
'Bravo!' for ALL your work.
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Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:07:39 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Calling Malibu Mole
Message:
Has the Malibu Mole reported anything lately? What news of the divine residence? Is Anne still scrubbing the clothes?
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Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:29:40 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Please answer if you know.
Message:
1. What happened to enjoyinglife. org?
2. What happened to Bill Wishard? I see his wife worked on Maharaji.org.
3. How do you access the Visions site?
4. Have there been any earth-shattering changes in the past few months?
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