Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 47 | |
From: May 12, 1999 |
To: May 23, 1999 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 00:17:27 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Definition of a premie-- Message: Meglomaniac with an inferiority complex I think that's what attracted the 'old timers' as MJ referred to us as. Why settle for a mediocre life of education, career and a family? You have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of GOD's new multi-level marketing scheme. Furthermore, you can be one of the Lord's hand-picked lackies or serving wenches. You have a divine purpose. You can take this great message to the world, and kiss the Living Lord's feet. You, too, can have this same high, divine experience that the Lord has. The Lord will bestow the glazed-eye look, goonish smile and even put words in your mouth. You will not have to sell flowers or your body in the streets. You will sell phony magazine subscriptions instead. And It Is So Divine! Of course, you will never amount to more that of an ant trying to commit suicide by jumping out of the Lord's hand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 00:27:19 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Gail Subject: great post! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 01:02:41 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Gail Subject: Definition of a premie-- Message: Message: Meglomaniac with an inferiority complex I think that's what attracted the 'old timers' as MJ referred to us as. Why settle for a mediocre life of education, career and a family? You have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of GOD's new multi-level marketing scheme. Furthermore, you can be one of the Lord's hand-picked lackies or serving wenches. You have a divine purpose. You can take this great message to the world, and kiss the Living Lord's feet. You, too, can have this same high, divine experience that the Lord has. The Lord will bestow the glazed-eye look, goonish smile and even put words in your mouth. You will not have to sell flowers or your body in the streets. You will sell phony magazine subscriptions instead. And It Is So Divine! Of course, you will never amount to more that of an ant trying to commit suicide by jumping out of the Lord's hand. -------------------------------------------- M. was 13 years old when he first came here. He has admitted over and over and over that these early efforts were a hogpodg of efforts ,put together by ex-hippies and Indian spiritual B.S. The money that was gotten in these times was used for programs , food , gas, places for M. to live. These were people who did not gain finacially at all from this. But they certainly made up some strange ways to get money out of know where. Were you there doing it? Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 02:00:45 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Steven Subject: Definition of a Villain Message: So who are these 'old hippies' and such who were supposed to have been responsible for some unspoken inaccuracies promoting him a s a leader. Don't his own quotes to the effect that he is God, greater than God, and the imminent messiah ('will establish peace on earth') count for actions that he alone is responsible for? I just don't see how anybody can try to say that some things were wrong but that somehow were not M's fault. I could actually blow some of this off, but it's his unbelievable lack of loyalty to people who did their best to give up their lives for him that will be forever etched in my heart as the mark of an absolute villain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 11:48:33 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Definition of a Villain Message: They were, Gary Girard( u.s.)-Milkey from (England)-Saf from (England)-Faciranand from (India)-Joan Apter (U.S).-Bahari Sing (India) The list is a little longer. These folks had a lot to do with the beginning of the B.S. that spread like wildfire. They felt that the indian stuff would go here also. But they were wrong and now we are all paying for it. Now things are different but how would you know? Your not there any more. Are you actually condeming a 13 year old boy ? That does not make you look very good? Are you saying that a 13 year old boy was a villain that put all this scheme together? Then he was 14 and 15 and 16 Now your condeming a 17 year old boy for being such a villian to want peace in a world of chaos ? Or are you saying that premies gained finacially from starting a money making scheme ? At 13 years old M. came here , yes he said to himself'wow I am 13 years old I am going be a villian and create a finacial empire. At 13-14-15-16 etc. everyone will give me money. ' Hay thats pretty damn goo for a 13 year old boy . Now is it not? Now giving up one's life. What is marriage? What does going to a war and dying for your country mean? What does robbing and killing mean to your life in prison for the rest of one's life. Or being a monk in a monistary for life. This is giving one's life. How can we give our life up,then take it back again? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:13:56 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Steven Subject: 13 year old boys can be Message: murderers, Steven. 13 is plenty old enough to know better. In the jewish faith, a 13 year old is a MAN! The fact that 13 year old gang-bangers do what they do is proof enough that M was capable of anything at that age and should be held accountable then as now. The simple fact that he began his nefarious career as an adolescent doesn't excuse the other simple fact: He never acknowledged his misdeeds nor has he apologized to anyone for doing them. Don't you think he OWES the people that he hoodwinked a simple and sincere apology? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 14:40:56 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Mike Subject: 13 year old boys can be Message: Yes Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:19:36 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Steven Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: (prick)? Why Guru Maharaj Ji, of course. When it finally dawned on him that he was NOT, gosh darn it, the LOTU afterall, why didn't he let us in on this little secret. I fully believed that he could snuff out the entire world with one wave of his hand. Remember when he told us that he had to be careful when he danced? He said, 'When I raise my hands, worlds are created, and when I lower them, worlds are destroyed. (To think he is afraid to push open a door with those very powerful hands, lest he pick up a germ.) I also thought he could magically show up anywhere, anytime! I had no choice. Remember when he said, 'When I call, you come.' So, we trundled along, momemt after moment, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade. We prayed to him to love him more, obsessed about him, worshipped his pictures, drank his bathwater, ate his leftover food, spent our last dime for one more magic carpet ride. Now, we are old and only marginally better off than recovering heroine addicts. He is a charlatan--gold shitters, jet, mistress, and all! He doesn't know anything more about god than you do. He knows a lot more about crowd control and mind control (brainwashing)--think of that flick of mindless, endless tramping of feet going to kiss his feet while the metronome drones out the beat of the human heart. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:56:45 (EDT)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Gail Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: You said it Gail. I love your gift of clarification. I hope you stick around for a while. Marshall Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 13:17:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Gail!! Message: I fully believed that he could snuff out the entire world with one wave of his hand. Remember when he told us that he had to be careful when he danced? He said, 'When I raise my hands, worlds are created, and when I lower them, worlds are destroyed. Yes, I DO kind of remember that. When and where? Do you recall? This has to be one of the most concise, important quotes yet proving his claim to be God in human form. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 13:35:20 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim!! Message: Yup! Hans Jayanti, 1978--afternoon satsang after his first dance of that festival (a few days before the holy fog dance night). Most of those videos were never released. The stuff he said was so way out there--the cognac man at his finest, I do believe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:57:59 (EDT)
From: John Cavad Email: None To: Gail Subject: Hans Jayanti, 1978 Message: ! Hans Jayanti, 1978--afternoon satsang after his first dance of that festival (a few days before the holy fog dance night).---- I will attest to your memory. I was there - Orlando, FL. GMJ was GOD...and he danced for all his children. What a performance! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:47:54 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: John Cavad Subject: Hans Jayanti, 1978 (I think) Message: I remember Maharaji saying that he could just blow on the world and make it disappear. He definitely got my attention with that one at the time. I also remember having a pretty wild experience of being physically controlled and running in front Maharaji's Jeep, pulling stakes out of the way so he could drive by the food tent on one of the last rainy days. It was not a formal service, just happened spontaneously. I happened to be near the food tent and he was approaching very slowly in the Jeep. I sent my energy in his direction and then my body started running and waving folks to get off the road, pulling up stakes along the way. I felt like I was being operated by remote control. Had mixed emotions about that, but it was a rush. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 15:00:30 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Gail!! Message: Larchmont Hall-L.A. 1975 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 14:56:44 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Gail Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: I,m sorry Gail, But I was around through all that stuff. I never fell for it though. This, maybe, was because, I was a biker . I saw a lot of crap happening around me but it scared me so much that I just practiced knowledge and helped when I could. Your right about the God thing too. He probably does not know Mister or Mrs. God very well either. I never drank his bath water. And if I ever saw anyone at the residence do that ,I would have extradited real quick. What you feel when you look at his pictures is how you feel. There have been times over the years when I had a real hard time looking at them. As for the Goldshiters ,jet, mistress,and all: your discust is probably well founded and you are healing by venting. Yours truly Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 06:04:55 (EDT)
From: wilton house premie Email: None To: Steven Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: do tell steven, you are sayng biker?? Having had relationships with most of the bikers at larchmont - I am truly interested in which one you were. who did you hang out with? where did you live? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:46:20 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: wilton house premie Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: Yea We probably know each other very well. Thats where rajaswar gave me knowledge. My aka. is JAkE. I used to spend a lot of time at wilton. From the beginnig. So whats your name,or is it a big secret? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 14:06:40 (EDT)
From: wilton Email: None To: Steven Subject: Whats the definition of a PWK Message: There were a couple of jakes. For the time being I am keeping my aka to myself. But it would be need to know whch one you were. We all had some real good times. But no , I cant say right now. If you tell me where you lived or who your friends were I can probably figure it out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 18:06:55 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Steven Subject: Definition of a Villain Message: The age thing is irrelevant, not because he could have been naiive or innocent. I will conced some truth to that, although not much. At least, he's supposed to be this realized person or whatever. Shouldn't he be ahead of the game not waaayyyyyy behind it? The main reason why it's not an excuse for his Mirageyness is that he could have apologized for it, admitted he was wrong anytime he wanted to. How old is he now, 40? C'mon, Big Steve, all he can do is pass the buck. He could have done it anytime for 20 or 30 years for crying out loud. Instead, it was everybody else's fault. This doesn't represent mastery when someone wants to pass the buck. It's copping out plain and simple. He played Lord for years as an adult and then finally blew it off. But he'll sneak in the instrumental version of arati when he can. Face it! He'd still be playing God if he could get away with it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:47:47 (EDT)
From: John Cavad Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Definition of a Villain Message: --- So who are these 'old hippies' and such who were supposed to have been responsible for some unspoken inaccuracies promoting him a s a leader -------- Me, I admit it! Me! I was one of those old hippies!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:03:25 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: John Cavad Subject: Why continue to Follow MJ? Message: Why bother to follow Guru Margarine? 1. He no longer pretends to be the Lord. Answer - But the premies know he really is the Lord playing an understated role 2. His knowledge can be found in numerous books. Answer - But Guru Margarine is the one who allows these techniques to work for those who follow him only. The rest of the world is ignorant, dead weight. 3. If you turn your back on Guru Margarine and his K, bad things will happen to you. Answer - As Fatguru stated, 'If you don't follow his rules, you will end up in an apartment in the city of death. 4. Why not try leaving and see what happens. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:58:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven, think for a second Message: M. was 13 years old when he first came here. He has admitted over and over and over that these early efforts were a hogpodg of efforts ,put together by ex-hippies and Indian spiritual B.S. While I question your recollection of Maharaji 'admitt[ing] over and over' anything, let alone that his early efforts were a hodgepodge of hippie and Indian spiritual bullshit, let's just say, for argument's sake that you're right. Say he did admit that. Where does that leave him? Don't forget he's only 'M' because of all that 'Indian spiritual B.S.' Sounds just a tad like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, wouldn't you say? I mean, after all, what makes M M? How'd he get there? Think, fella, think! Now, if you will, please don't assume you're right for argument's sake. Let's look at that premise. Are you suggesting that Shri Hans was full of shit? And just how off was Maharaji when he promised to bring peace to the world during his infamous 'peace bomb' satsang? Spell it out, Steven. And, by the way, when you've done that, please direct me to a single quote which supports your claim that he's admitted anything like you say he has. Wishful thinking on your part, I'd say. Not practical in the real world but a nice dream on your part. Repeat it oftne enough and you never have to question it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 15:07:38 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Steven, think for a second Message: I will go to my sources and bring up one of the video's . It may not say indian B.S. BUt close to it. Please give me a fewww days to find the video for you . But even after I do produce it you will find something else. Its endless ,is it not? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 22:31:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven, think for a second Message: I will go to my sources and bring up one of the video's . It may not say indian B.S. BUt close to it. Well of course you'll find no such thing. Sure, you might find Maharaji making some slightly dismissive comment about Indian ritual but tell me where he scoffs at the Indian idea of avatar and all that stuff and that is what we're talking about. Don't start doing a Shp on me, Steven. One at a time, please. In any event, you didn't answer my question about Shri Hans. Will you please? Please give me a fewww days to find the video for you . But even after I do produce it you will find something else. Its endless ,is it not? Hey, fella, I'm open. If you can prove your point I'll concede it. But don't expect as much if you fall short. Besides, are you looking for the truth here or just a way to defend Maharaji no matter what? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 23:20:42 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't start doing a 'Jim' on Message: Steve, either. Or at least wait until you've finished with me for good. Then he can feel your full power. And I certainly don't want to get short-changed by having to split your anger with someone else. By the way, DID YOU EVER SUCCESSFULLY PROSECUTE SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT MIGHT BE INNOCENT? YES OR NO? DID YOU EVER SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT MIGHT BE GUILTY? YES OR NO? THIS WILL REVEAL AN INTEGRAL PART OF YOU, AND HOW IMPORTANT THE TRUTH IS TO YOU, VERSUS WINNING A CASE. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 23:30:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: You don't get it, Shp Message: Shp, Why in the world would I want to answer any of your questions? You're just a liar who continues to deny his lies when caught flagrante delicto. You're no one to talk to, get it? Plus, you've already told us how you aver rationality so there's even more reason to avoid wasting time on you. Really, Shp, get the hell out of here. I mean it. And Steven? Steven, so far, has been a lot more honest than you. But let's see where this goes. As I say, I've never yet seen a premie who can discuss Maharaji rationally. Who knows? Mayber Steven will be different. I sincerely hope so. But as for you, Shp, get lost! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 23:44:17 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: I smell avoidance. Message: Two simple questions, Jim. No big deal. Got the balls to answer? You could have answered me on that last post in less words than you spent trying to drag me down once again. C'mon, man...maybe this is a turning point for you as well as all the folks you are trying to straighten out. Get down with the people, Jim. Get off your high horse. Ever put somebody away you weren't sure was guilty? Ever get somebody off you weren't sure was innocent? IF SO, is that any way for a righteous man such as yourself to make a living? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 05:58:15 (EDT)
From: tantra Email: None To: Shp Subject: I smell avoidance. Message: 'cuse me for interrupting, but his line of questioning is straight out of a dumb lawyer/vs/bad guy movie circa last year. shp even knows what to say next after jim is finished answering. shp is your necktie eskew and the camera at the right angle?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:47:32 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: tantra Subject: I smell avoidance. Message: Please translate into English. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 06:38:19 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Shp Subject: I smell poor critical thinking Message: Ever put somebody away you weren't sure was guilty? Ever get somebody off you weren't sure was innocent? C'mon, guy. You know how the legal system works. There's the council for the defense and there's the council for the prosecution. If lawyers only defended clients they were sure were innocent, how many of the accused do you think would get a fair trial? If they're guilty, that's up to the prosecution to prove it. Likewise, if they're innocent, that's up to the defense to prove it. Ultimately it's up to the judge to determine guilt or innocence depending on what evidence is brought to the trial. Your question isn't as clever as you think it is. Try again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:15:09 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: I smell poor critical thinking Message: Jerry, Shp's questions are amazingly naive. My dilemna, as you might imagine, is that I don't want to let this creep derail the discussion we were having even though I could, in my opinion, easily, easily deal with the red herring he's trying to dangle. The key thing is that he is simply unable to discuss things rationally. As he himself explained yesterday, he has an alternative means of thinking or dialogue or whatever. Well, call it what he wants, we've seen him to be a blatant liar. I just can't bring myself to play his game. This is as close as I'll get. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:45:07 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Your life is a red herring? Message: How you spend the majority of your time and energy is a red herring? Your avocation is a red herring? What you invested years and thousands in education is a red herring? What you come here with all pent up inside you from that job is a red herring? No, it's not a fish. I get the very strong feeling that you don't like it any more than I do, but you have chosen to accept it as part of your life and work. You turned off part of yourself to do that. Wake up! There are many legal jobs that are dedicated to doing the right thing and raising the standard. Why don't you check out the National Green Pages or Co-Op America? Deep down I believe that is who you really are and what you really are about, but it's kind of embarrassing to get the message out here in front of everybody. It was never my purpose to disrespect you by bringing this up. I believe that you are so fucking intense here because you have soaked up so much bullshit from your job environment tht you have to let it out, and boy is this pond stocked! You act like a kid who just got out of public school, bouncing off the walls. I am sure other parernts can relate to this. I think you are so upset because you know some of the thing you hate is in you, too. Remove it from yourself first, then you can begin to learn how to remove it from someone else and not do so much damage. Amensty International might need an attorney, or if they couldn't, they could probably refer a strong, passionate Crusader for Justice such as yourself, to some righteous organizations looking for legal counsel in your area. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 22:47:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: Your life is a new age mess Message: Shp, Cut this bullshit right now. You're making a fool of yourself. See my post above. I've accepted your offer and will indeed discuss my profession with you after you've dealt with your 'inner answer' post. So let's not waste any more time. Okay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 02:39:15 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: My answer's atop and beenthere Message: awhile. Did you notice that you gave me two COMMANDS top line? 1) (You) Cut this bullshit out right now. 2) (You) See my post above. That's how we used to have to write them in English class, with the unspoken but obvious YOU in parentheses. This is an example of how you try to get the upper hand in a dialog, by assuming an authority that is not yours unless I buy your siamese fighting fish all swollen up facade. But let's not get caught up in such minor points right now. We have bigger fish to fry, don't we? I am looking forward to your answers to my questions with equal enthusiasm. (Interesting word, enthusiasm....actually means God inspired) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:09:48 (EDT)
From: Dr. Reich Email: None To: all Subject: Shp, naked as a lamb Message: Don't start doing a 'Jim' on Steve, either. Or at least wait until you've finished with me for good. Then he can feel your full power. And I certainly don't want to get short-changed by having to split your anger with someone else. By the way, DID YOU EVER SUCCESSFULLY PROSECUTE SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT MIGHT BE INNOCENT? YES OR NO? DID YOU EVER SUCCESSFULLY DEFEND SOMEONE YOU THOUGHT MIGHT BE GUILTY? YES OR NO? THIS WILL REVEAL AN INTEGRAL PART OF YOU, AND HOW IMPORTANT THE TRUTH IS TO YOU, VERSUS WINNING A CASE. This is a very revealing statement by shp. He CRAVES attention. And particularly CRAVES Jim's attention. He goes into a rage when he sees he's now in ''competion'' with Steven for Jim's attention. (notice the caps) I'm beginning to formulate my diagnosis. There's more than a hint of homoerotic fixation here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 23:25:14 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: More Message: I will go to my sources and bring up one of the video's . It may not say indian B.S. BUt close to it. Please give me a fewww days to find the video for you . But even after I do produce it you will find something else. Its endless ,is it not? Steven, I posted my last reply to you rather quickly. Now I want to ask you why you only answered one of all the questions I aksed you above. Why? And what are your answers? Here are the questions again (slightly repackaged for ease of use): 1) While I question your recollection of Maharaji 'admitt[ing] over and over' anything, let alone that his early efforts were a hodgepodge of hippie and Indian spiritual bullshit, let's just say, for argument's sake that you're right. Say he did admit that. Where does that leave him? 2) Don't forget he's only 'M' because of all that 'Indian spiritual B.S.' Sounds just a tad like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, wouldn't you say? 3)I mean, after all, what makes M M? 4)How'd he get there? Think, fella, think! <5>) Now, if you will, please don't assume you're right for argument's sake. Let's look at that premise. Are you suggesting that Shri Hans was full of shit? 6) And just how off was Maharaji when he promised to bring peace to the world during his infamous 'peace bomb' satsang? Spell it out, Steven. Could you please answer these this time? Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 00:55:52 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: More Message: 1 Looks like He is passing the buck? 2 I do not see Maharaji's form as my all. Practicing knowledge makes me happy. I have learned how to differentiate between his seriousness and his humor. 3 He showed me something that I tryed so hard to get from so many , many different people and or books. I am greatful to him for that. (Thats what makes M ,M for me). I cannot say that for you or joe shmowe down the street or even my wife. 4 By using people as stepping stones. 5 I never new him.He seems pretty sincere from the films I have viewed. I do not feel he was filled with shit. Maybe love. 6 Very young. To energetic in the wrong way. Not knowing the inborn genetic skeptisim in the western materialistic people. Or maybe praying that people would listen to him. This is a hard one. I am not M so I do not know what goes on in his head. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:20:40 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Shp's got a good point, Steven Message: Very young. To energetic in the wrong way. Not knowing the inborn genetic skeptisim in the western materialistic people. Or maybe praying that people would listen to him. This is a hard one. I am not M so I do not know what goes on in his head. Ha! Shp's got you here, Steven, I'm afraid. He's absolutely right, I think, in asking you how you can so easily speculate -- darkly -- about his own mentality but can't do the same for Maharaji who, as we all know, you supposedly know and love so much more. But it's always like this. Get a premie in a corner having to explain some indefensible act or word on Maharaji's part. They always do the same thing. Always. Offer some hare-brained, pathetically hopeful 'positive' explanations, not a single negative one, and then hide behind the 'I'm-not-him-so-how-the-hell-would-I-know?' shield. Can't you do a little better than that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:38:27 (EDT)
From: Dr. Reich Email: None To: all Subject: Shp's diagnosis Message: An Orally Repressed Phallic Character with Anxiety The major characteristics of the phallic character are altered by the presence of oral repression. The typical pushy self-confidence and excessive reactive aggression are diminished by the degree of oral holding or blocking in the phallic’s characterological and biophysical structure. The case of Sanford Pass illustrates how these defensive character traits are replaced by depression, inhibition of affect, feelings of inadequacy and weakness,unrequited, unilaterally fixated homoerotic fantasies, and substance abuse. This case also demonstrates how the phallic character in the absence of genital sexual gratification begins to break down with the emergence of the passive anal including masochistic tendencies that were originally defended against. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:41:52 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Dr. Reich Subject: Shp's diagnosis Message: Dr. Are you saying his butt is shaped like a triangle? Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:58:00 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Dr. Reich Subject: Thank God for Message: comic relief. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 00:16:17 (EDT)
From: Herr Doktor Email: None To: Shp Subject: Sorry Mr Pass-the- gas Message: Your prognosis is poor. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 02:44:40 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Herr Doktor Subject: You wouldn't happen to be Message: Dr. Reich the third, would you? You know, the third Reich? If you are, then that would explain where I have heard of you before. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 08:19:23 (EDT)
From: Ex-Orgonomist Email: None To: Herr Doktor Subject: Sorry Mr Pass-the- gas Message: Herr Doktor Reich! You're a fraud!! I paid good money for that Orgone Accumulator. When am I going to get my money back? X Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:39:09 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Shp's got a good point, Steven Message: Ok, I see. Well M.is very well known to say one thing then do the exact opposite to through us off. Is that good enough for your hinus? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:53:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Is Steven the next Shp? Message: I see. Well M.is very well known to say one thing then do the exact opposite to through us off. Are you serious? Don't forget, until now Steven I've been taking you seriously. I thought you were really trying to explore and discuss these issues. This answer, however, seems very flip and tongue-in-cheek. What's it going to be? Sincere conversation or bullshit? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 21:50:58 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is Steven the next Shp? Message: By , By for now. I am just a little to sensitive for this forum. Have a good life. I am ! See ya ,wouldn't want to be ya. And to all a good nite. BURPPPPPP......OH excuse me. |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 23:09:38 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Please don't leave Message: Steven, Unlike Shp, you really doseem sincere in trying to understand Maharaji. If you have the stomach for it I'd really like to encourage you to stick around. If not, good luck. I turst you'll remember some of what you've thought here next time you see him. Be true to yourself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 03:05:42 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Whistle on the play Message: There you go again, Jim. Once again you invoke my name in a negative context. You don't really want to communicate with me, do ya? You want heads of premies on sticks (figuratively, of course) around your computer chair as you pound away at your keyboard in your own self-created contradictory existence. Despite it all, I sincerely wish you well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 09:55:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: Yes, you're right Message: I don't want to communicate with you. In fact, I don't think anyone here does. Do you think otherwise? If so, who do you think wants you to talk with you here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 22:44:12 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Everyone Subject: questions are good Message: Yes , How changes come about is by trial and error. You folks here, by being critical are showing Maharaji that premies and people do get hurt. You are showing Maharaji that other premies do hurt each other sometimes. The first and second and third airplanes did have a lot of problems when they were invented. But without critics how would the inventors get ideas ? Maybe they were their own worst critics? You are showing us how to tighten security. You are showing us how to put tight collars around Maharaji's representatives. You are teaching the P.R. people how to best talk to the Media. This forum is very good because you let so much hang out that you are teaching us how to go inside that much more. Anyway now we have the thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands of brand new premies from the 90's. These people are doing most of the telling others. Remember Maharaji always said in those early years.'I have come to tell your children about this happiness inside.' Well now its happening by the thousands. These new people are his changes. The positions have to be filled and they are there waiting . Kids these days are much smarter then we ever were. And at such a young age they see right thru us. So they want to help Their teacher with his work. They don't bicker with themselves as much as we do. Yours truly Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 22:53:40 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Steven Subject: Democracy allows that Message: That's the chance we take, but I doubt if Mirage can really deal with having made a mistake. In the sense of really feeling that he did something for which other people suffered. THEN he could learn something from us. We'll just have to risk that he gets better at his rippoff instead of learning from us what we could actually teach him. I have written THOUSANDS of words denouncing him. I intend to write THOUSANDS more doing the same. And who knows, quite possibly THOUSANDS of people have read them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:18:57 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Democracy allows that Message: I don't know what to say. I mean to me the gas companies are ripping us off . The makers of printers that need refills are ripping me off . Clinton maybe, getting me into a third world war ,without my permission. The food in the markets are filled with poison , yet I have to eat. Fast food chains are telling me that their food is good for me. The priests are telling me I am in hell. Credit card companies want me to spend more? The I.R.S. does not give a shit about me. Gun control means , using two hands. I mean the list just gets longer. What about that for something to denounce. See to me I am listening to what your saying. The problem is that the numbers don't add up. There are 12 months in a year. Maharaji is gone from home about 9 of them. He's going from place to place giving knowledge. Not going to make companies or going to bars etc. The way I know this is from the turnout that is happpening. OK lets say he is ripping people off like you say. Wouldn't he want to be home more to spend the lute on himself? I mean something does not figure. Con - men and greedy people usually make alot then spend it on themselves . Not begone all the time helping individuals find a way out from all the above ripp offs society and democracy lets do to us. Yours truly Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:20:22 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Maharaji doesn't think so Message: Steven, I have to say I appreciate your attempt to be honest here. I don't think for a moment that you could maintain it all that long if we really got down to the nitty gritty (sorry, I've just talked to premies too long to not have a few, albeit extremely negative, expectations) that you'd bail. But at this level at least you're a breath of fresh air compared to some of your fellows. But that's not what I wanted to say which is this: unlike you Maharaji clearly advocates ignoring criticism. Here he is saying so as plain as day: It's always worth remembering that it takes two to hold a quarrel. Some people criticise me, but no matter what they say, or how many people say it, I just say nothing. I know that they criticise me and I know that the more my message is spread, the more criticism I will get. This year so far I have personally given Knowledge to 18,300 people. I have given Knowledge to 77,500 people since I started personally running the Knowledge sessions. The more successful this work becomes the more some people are going to feel inclined to criticise it. But I just ignore it. Those who want to hear can hear and those who don't - well let's put it this way, if you are going to respond to criticism you may as well water a stone and hope that it will grow grass. So who's right, Steven? You or Maharaji? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:37:47 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Maharaji doesn't think so Message: I know what your saying Jim. Your totally correct about the bail part. Is the nitty gritty involve alot of curse words? Or are they your feelings? I try to be a very practicle person. Being not a very trusting person it takes me awhile to get to know someone . Especially on the key board. We cannot do battle because we are probably similar in our techniques. Yet diffirent on the belief part. But when it comes to civil conversation We probably can last for awhile. Even about M. What you experiance comes from you. What I experiance comes from me. So Its endless right. You have got my respect. You seem to shoot from the hip. Sincerely Steven ps The above goes for Sir david also and jethro. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:47:47 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Why won't you answer me? Message: Steven, I went to all that trouble to track down the quote where Maharaji talks about ignoring criticism and you ignore it? Please! Don't just concentrate on my aside about how hard it is getting down to the 'nitty gritty' with premies. That wasn't what that post was all about. What about this issue I raised: You say crticism's good because it fosters self-reflection and, possibly, improvement. Maharaji says it's something to be ignored. Who's right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:58:04 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Why? Message: Jim I appologize, Maybe he talks it over with his wife and children or Patrick ? Maybe he is very strong and feels that if he responds he will look weak. He is human you know? Maybe he vents to his close friends that won't leak it to the puplic ? I honestly do not know . Because I am not he , am I? Maybe he needs training in how to respond to it , because he's not used to it. Sincerely Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 00:09:21 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Why again Message: Also I might add, Talking to Maharaji face to face is much different then the internet and everything but that. He is very ,very short but is very ,very , very ,strong willed. I have seen him face the enemy and he has not flinched an eye. While I was totally afraid for my life. His motto is, if your going to call someone names,do it to their face. This adds up because when we call someone names behind their back it just makes us look stupid and like an idiot. While it would be much better to compliment someone behind their back. It is much better for our own self. Sincerely Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 00:29:02 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim where are you? Message: Talk to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 01:22:33 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Steven Subject: The Velvet Elvis Mirage Message: 'If you're going to call someone names, do it to their face.' Is that what Mirage says? Is that why people who actually question something he or his organization has done (in a letter) NEVER get a response? He says whatever he has to to keep the $$$ machine rolling. You really think, he's a poor suffering working stiff, while he flys all over the world in his gold toileted jet plane? Whatever. How many days does he actually do programs or sessions in a year? Is it one whole week a month? How many hours is he actually responsible to do something during a day when he has a program? Is he there for 2 hours? Does he actually average 8 hours a month of being on the clock for his premies? Maybe he does more, but he sure does a mean impersonation of a con artist with an easy life, travelling from place to place. He goes where people are more into worshipping him, or whatever the politically correct version of that is for the place and time. Money, fame, adoration, slave labor, multiple sex partners. Gold toilets. Yeah a real humble hardworking servant of his disciples. I could blow a lot of it off, but he seems to feel he has no responsibility to the people who did slave for him for years. That's where he really seems dangerous to me. Ten years of service and out on the street with you. And no PR team can really change the facts that make that the way it is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:06:35 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Runamok Subject: The Velvet Elvis Mirage Message: My Friend, Come on now. Why talk the stuff if you cannot back it up . He has know golden electric pump flushing toilets in his jet. His toilets in his house are purple. He is not Slobo,who has slave labors. Sex is not an issue with M. Money gets him there and back. And he works and flys and does his thing more than 6,480 hours a year. As for the 10 years . No one held a gun to your head . Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:22:07 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven, Steven, Steven Message: Before we go any further would you please go over to Roger Drek's Chamber of Horrors, Curiosities and Public Health Warnings and review the entire Maharajia Apologia. Figure out which defenses you want to argue, write down the numbers if you can, and then come back and let us know. After all, why not allow this discussion to take its place in the context of all premie defenses of Maharaji. You're not the first and you won't be the last trying against all reason and odds to make him look (to all but his followers, of course) like anything but a comical monstrosity. Because, Steven, your defenses, you must see, are neither original nor plausible. Take what you and I were discussing ... kind of. You said criticism's good, one can learn from it; Maharaji said it's best ignored. I asked you who you thought was right, you or the hamster. First, you ignored my question and only responded to some ancillary, throwaway comment I made. Then, when pressed, you said: Maybe he talks it over with his wife and children or Patrick ? Maybe he is very strong and feels that if he responds he will look weak. He is human you know? Maybe he vents to his close friends that won't leak it to the puplic ? I honestly do not know . Because I am not he , am I? Maybe he needs training in how to respond to it , because he's not used to it. -- which, if you think about it, still doesn't answer the question. Of course you added: Talking to Maharaji face to face is much different then the internet and everything but that. He is very ,very short but is very ,very , very ,strong willed. I have seen him face the enemy and he has not flinched an eye. While I was totally afraid for my life. His motto is, if your going to call someone names,do it to their face. This adds up because when we call someone names behind their back it just makes us look stupid and like an idiot. While it would be much better to compliment someone behind their back. It is much better for our own self. which again doesn't answer my question (and is, for my money, absurd. But one thing at a time, right?) So, Steven, I'll ask you again: who's right? You or Maharaji? Should people be recpetive to criticism so that they may possibly learn from it or should they simply ignore it? Please answer this time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 15:12:23 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Steven, Steven, Steven Message: Receptive Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 16:49:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven, Steven, Steven Message: Receptive Steven, I'm just guessing but I bet you had to clench your teeh on this one. Good for you, man. Honestly. Simple question -- honest, straightforward answer. Now, please, let's look at the ramifications. You're clearly saying that Maharaji's wrong here. There's no way around it. And it's not a small thing, it's a very core, character thing. Worse, you could never explain this to him. Why? Because, as he said, he ignores criticism! So here's a guy who promises to bring peace to the world in his lifetime, gets a whole lot of people to trust him more than anything or anyone they've ever known, sees a whole lot of shit happen that yes, without exaggeration, really did screw up a lot of folk and sometimes much, much worse. And what does this guy have to say? This guy who urged us to 'surrender the reigns of our lives' to him? To 'leave no room for doubt' in our minds? Etc. and many, many big, fat etc.'s? He says, 'stuff it'. I say, 'thanks, Maharaji. I always knew I could count on you.' And you, Steven, what do you say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 18:24:07 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: My turn Message: I need some clearification of YOUR word meanings and there EXACT meaning in your head and day to day living ,life. 1 (world peace)___________________________ 2 (trust him)____________________________ 3 (surrender reins)___________________________ 4 (doubt)_______________________________ 5 (Stuff it)_______________________________ |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:14:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: My turn Message: Steven, I will answer your questions. But, don't forget, you didn't answer my last one, i.e. what do you think of Maharaji's attitude towards ciriticism? I guess I could also ask you if you'd ever tolerate an attitude like his in a friend. Anyway, your questions: I need some clearification of YOUR word meanings and there EXACT meaning in your head and day to day living ,life. 1 (world peace) an amazingly different world than what we've got now. What I anticipated was that Maharaji would turn everyone on to the 'Knowledge of God' and the whole world would then be one big ashram or festival site. We'd have nothing to do but satsang every night and service inthe day time. Might have no sex but we'd sure as hell be happy! Really, I never spent too much time trying to conceptualize this utopia Maharaji was leading the world into. I just trusted him when he said it was on its way. 2 (trust him) rely on his judgement and promises in all matters. If he said 'jump' I'd ask 'how high?' not 'why?' and certainly not say anything like 'No, Maharaji, not today'. 'Trust him' meant scour my thoughts for any chill of doubt and try to shine those dark, dank spots with the love of satsang and meditation. 'Out, out, damned spot!' 3 (surrender reins)give him the full control of my life, lock, stock and barrel. The ashram seemed like the only means of fulfilling that demand, that's why I moved in. I was his responsibility then. He made this abundantly clear. 4 (doubt) any thought that maybe Maharaji was not the Lord, all powerful, etc. Any question as to his ability to do anything, anytime anywhere, include turn me into a 'fully realized being' if and when he saw fit. 5 (Stuff it) Ha! I like that. A sense of humour. 6 criticism Well it doesn't have to be nasty but it certainly can be. Some expression of fault, basically. Could be tendered for positive reasons -- perhaps trying to improve someone or something or maybe said just to give someone shit. Sometimes, it's really jsut a matter of hard questions that by their nature imply some fault that may or may not be true. Kind of like: 'Guru, you once promised to bring peace to the world. Don't you think you owe some explanation as to how close you are to fulfilling that promise?' Is that a question or a comment? A bit of both. Maharaji doesn't want to hear any such thing. Please tell me in your words ,what they mean to you. In the fewest words possible. I am not joking here. I do not have your mind or thoughts . Every person in this world has their own thoughts and word discription. I am not a mind reader. Steven, I've tried to accomodate (although I'm sure you were joking about 'stuff', weren't you? ). But, tell me, why even go through this exercise? We all speak english. We all know perfectly well what these words mean. I have to laugh as I see premies search,search and search for a magic way of combining or interpreting Maharaji's words to make everything okay. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:24:45 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: My turn Message: Jim, My answer to you is this. I do not think M. should ignore criticism. I think he should have a big meeting with all the people that trusted him and feel betrayed . I think he should have enough guts to here all of every one's claims. Then answer them in a methodical fashion. Now who am I ? Why is my answer anygood to anyone? To some I am very irresponsable. To others I am not commited enough. Did you ever hear M's story about the car called the Mini-cooper? yours Truly Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 22:36:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Steven Subject: Close Message: I do not think M. should ignore criticism. I think he should have a big meeting with all the people that trusted him and feel betrayed . I think he should have enough guts to here all of every one's claims. Then answer them in a methodical fashion. Okay, but as you see, he has no intention of ever doing anything remotely like that. So tell me, how can you respect him? Now who am I ? Why is my answer anygood to anyone? To some I am very irresponsable. To others I am not commited enough. Did you ever hear M's story about the car called the Mini-cooper? I don't get this last part. Who cares about you here? It's Maharaji we're talking about. Actually, Steven, I'm growing to like you and yes, your answer's perfectly good to me at least. Tell me, by the way, what do you think of this latest with Shp? You've read the threads. Do you think Shp wasn't saying that maybe Maharaji might answer him 'inside' instead of any other way when he wrote: I don't know if this used to happen to you, but in years past when I would have something to say to Maharaji, I'd feel a wordless response of just real nice energy coming back to me on inner planes before I would even finish writing it, let alone mail it. And the answer would be sort of 'blowing in the wind'. (I don't mean 'inner agya', either.) That hasn't happened with this most recent letter. But then again, I haven't been practicing every day either. That may have something to do with it. I remain patient for now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:15:41 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Close Message: 1 Have you heard the mini-cooper story ? 2 What am I to you ? Shell's answer man>? 3 He is losing patience with you. So he is reverting to the ways of direct personal attack. You are becoming an obsession with him. He needs to step back and see you as know threat. This is common occurance with a lot of premies that feel they are being threatened. He is trying to relate with his personal experiance with knowledge and M. But does not recognise your views. It's hard to walk in other's shoes. When you respond to him with scarcasm he responds like any child would. With hostility. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 02:14:02 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: Close Message: I might add that he maybe on some drug that causes him an upper affect. This is what I feel from reading his posts. Another thing is that if you do a trace on his net. to see if he's from down under. You may find he and the weasel are one. But this is just a thought. So try it anyway. He has access to other terminals. The weasel prides himself on thinking he is more cunning then the rest. Check it out dude. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 03:12:31 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Steven Subject: Close Message: Steven, So now you are not only interpreting my words, but now you are the psychic profiler as well. And if you were uplifted by my posts, why attribute it to drugs? Maybe I was just talking straight and you caught a buzz. The truth gets you high, not drugs. If you don't believe me, take some and go lie to somebody, then tell me how high you got. You'll crash and burn and bum out. Then go clean to somebody and tell the best sweetest truth you can. You'll get high from it. The truth really does set you free. Also, you and/or Jim can waste your time checking me out 'down under' or anywhere else if you wish, but I have already stated my full name and e-mail here, and like Popeye, I am what I am and that's all what I am. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 02:48:42 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Steven Subject: Howdy Message: Steven, I find it interesting that when Jim asks you about Maharaji or someone other than yourself (please don't ask me for chapter and verse, I just remember the vibe) you have often said something like 'he's him and I'm me and I don't think like him so I can't answer that'. Yet when Jim offers you a paragraph out of context from something I said, (and you don't even know me), you are very quick to intrepret, analyze and share your insights. Would you consider this a double standard? I do. I'm me and you're you and we don't necesarily think alike either, so how can you answer for me? By the way, since you and Jim are such pals - he told me in bold caps he likes you a lot more than he like me and considers you more honest...for now - so could you please ask him two simple questions on my behalf, and perhaps yours as well: Did you ever successfully defend someone who you had any reservations about being innocent? Did you ever successfully prosecute someone who you had any reservations about being guilty? My purpose for asking these questions is to determine what is more important to Jim, the truth or his winning an argument or case, i.e. mo' money/ego boost. I am not accusing him of anything, just asking. If he is so into the truth and wanting to expose bullshit, how can he justify (if he does) his very own accepted but morally questionable actions in the name of his profession? That is what they called 'compartmentalization' when Clinton was going through the impeachment, how Bill could mentally keep all his shit separate and still function, even though he was going through great personal turmoil. Jim has called me a liar repeatedly when all I was guilty of was misspeaking as we all do from time to time. Sometimes things go fast and emotioins fly and words don't always come out in the clearest way. Most everyone I know who posts here has at one time or another misspoken and taken back their message and come back with a clearer version. When I do it, I get accused of lying or trying to squirm out of a corner or Jim's favorite, 'defending Maharaji'. I hope that your dialog with Jim goes well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:57:56 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Jim Subject: A voice from the audience... Message: Jim, Who's right, you're right! If he wasn't going to give you the satisfaction of that answer, I will. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 22:14:27 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Denise Subject: A voice from the audience... Message: I did answer him. He acknowledged my answer. Denise . Who is your hero now? Who and what do you believe, now in your life. Now that on this platform Jim is right. On another he may be wrong. I may be right to some people ,but wrong to others. Cold and hot seem very similar at the extreme. Our thoughts end,when we die. steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:59:10 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Steven Subject: guessing Message: 'our thoughts end when we die' That 'thought' is not proven. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 22:43:26 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Denise Subject: Thanks Denise Message: If conversation can fairly be called 'social intercourse', conversation with premies must be something akin to tease, tease, tease. You think you're actually getting something going and they get all skittish. Steven, to his credit, seems sincere in trying to avoid that kind of evasion. Shp, to his discredit, seems to revel in being an idiot. I think closure's a great thing in discussions but, unfortunately, that often requires admissions. Thanks for sensing the frustration one feels when closure that should have been easy and for the picking is withheld. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 03:01:51 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: My ears were burning,so I Message: checked out this website and sure enough, you are at it again. By the way, Have you ever successfully put somebody away who you had any reservations at all about being guilty? Have you ever successfully defended someone who you had any reservations at all about being innocent? And if so, how does this dovetail with your stance here against injustice and bullshit? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:25:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: Fuck off, liar Message: Shp, I'm not going to answer your questions. They're infantile for one thing. Anyone the least bit familiar with the judicial system knows the answers. But that's not the problem. The problem is that you have no right to ask them. You have averred any 'backand forth' as you put it when your credibility and integrity has been absolutely on the line. You have explained how you're not even into rational discussion. And you have lied. Lied about your own words, not once but a few times. So why, tell me, why should you then be allowed to take up a whole new line of inquiry no matter what it is? If you can satisfy me that you have that right in the circusmtances, I'll reverse myself and answer your questions. Well? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 13:55:55 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sir James, may I suggest that Message: you refuse to tango with this clown anymore. That will be the best medicine for him. He reminds me of myself when my mother used to attack me about the cult. When there is no antagonism from the outside, perhaps he will start paying attention to his own doubts. He has taken up enough of your time and attention.:^) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 23:27:31 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: You're probably right Message: [...] refuse to tango with this clown anymore. That will be the best medicine for him. He reminds me of myself when my mother used to attack me about the cult. When there is no antagonism from the outside, perhaps he will start paying attention to his own doubts. He has taken up enough of your time and attention.:^) Gail, That's got to be the best idea. But I guess I get a cheap thrill from revealing premies for what they are. But, yes, you're probably right and yes, I might just do that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 02:57:42 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Put your money where your Message: mouth is. A lie is something intentional. I never lied here. We both know you are tolerating shit at work you hate with a passion and know is wrong. What are you doing about that injustice to make it better? It's easy to be a cyber-warrior, but are you willing to put your lifestyle and income on the line for the sake of justice? I did and I'm still breathing. I left a very lucrative profession because of my committment to justice. Hurts a little at first, but I sleep better at night. Do what you love and the money will follow. And you won't look like such a freaking hypocrite, possibly being a witness to crimes of the state and not trying to fix them or at least take yourself out of the game. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 10:10:17 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: But you did lie Message: Shp, There are people who are so scatter-brained that their speech means nothing. People like you, for instance. I have no doubt that you did indeed mean what you said and lied when you denied it. But that's what I'm proving in the thread up top. Easily. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 15:20:27 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Shp Subject: What, ears burning? Message: SHP: How does pointing out injustice dovetail with an attorney???? Ok, I'll make it more personal. I won't talk about Jim, I'll talk about ME. How can someone that loves life be a member of the military for as long as I was? How can someone that LOVES the wilderness (and all of its inhabitants) as much as I do like to hunt, too? Why haven't you probed me for these answers? Sounds like my lack-of-integrity is showing, doesn't it? Why haven't you attacked it? I find it very funny that those (like yourself) that SAY there is no such thing as a 'black and white' issue are the ones that judge people by that yardstick the most. And others (like myself), who find many black-and-white issues, are more likely to search for the shades of grey in-between. You think that because Jim does his JOB, that he doesn't have any personal integrity or that he can't possibly believe in justice if he knowingly defends a 'guilty' person. BULL! That's his JOB.... you know, the thing he does for a living. It also requires a REAL DEDICATION to DUTY (that equates to integrity, by the way). He had to swear an oath and he tries (obviously) to maintain that oath (integrity, once again shp). I was in the military for many years and participated in several conflicts. Does that mean that I can't possibly LOVE LIFE? If you answer that question with a 'yes,' then you are too black-and-white for me. You have no real understanding of anything or anyone. In fact, your thinking would equate to that of a 9 to 10 year old (totally black-and-white). You are part of the 'do your own thing' generation that actually meant, 'do your own thing, as long as it's exactly like my thing because I'm RIGHT! (or left)' BULL, once again, shp! THAT, my friend, IS lack-of-integrity to the max. By the way, what's wrong with liking 'material' things. Since I am 'material,' it would seem to be perfectly natural. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 03:31:17 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Mike Subject: Answer sheet enclosed Message: Mike: How does pointing out injustice dovetail with an attorney???? Shp: Before he is an attorney, he is a human being. Karen Silkwood was just a worker in a plant that handled radioactive material. She became aware of conditions that were hurting people, and she spoke up, not as a lowly worker, but as a sovereign humnan being in all her glory. She was murdered for it, but her sacrifice helped to save lives and improve the industry. If you haven't seen it, check out the movie Silkwood. That's what I'm talking about. I am not suggesting that Jim martyr himself, but just make a move for good in his day job the same way he makes his moves around here if he thinks something is wacky. And I wouldn't make such a big deal about it if Jim wasn't so in-everybody's-face as the loudest and rudest upholder of what he considers to be truth here on this site. Mike: How can someone that loves life be a member of the military for as long as I was? Shp: I went through that phase of thinking the military was totally evil way back in college. There are times when it may be necessary to fight to defend one's life, family, community, country, way of life. Jesus healed the daughter of a soldier, he did not turn away because of it. That helped me understand the thing about the military, and I got that about 30 years ago. He said that wars were inevitable, at least for now. Mike: How can someone that LOVES the wilderness (and all of its inhabitants) as much as I do like to hunt, too? Shp: If you are trophy hunting, then I think it's very wrong. If you are using the game for food and other things somewhat like the native Americans did, that's your thing. Mike: Why haven't you probed me for these answers? Sounds like my lack-of-integrity is showing, doesn't it? Why haven't you attacked it? Shp: Contrary to popular belief, I do not look for trouble. Mike: By the way, what's wrong with liking 'material' things. Since I am 'material,' it would seem to be perfectly natural. Shp: I like material things too. The trick is to not let them become gods. I like perfectly natural material things, especially. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 15:23:36 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Shp Subject: My answer to your answer Message: SHP: You said, '...If you are using the game for food and other things somewhat like the native Americans did, that's your thing.' Actually, I am native (by blood) and second 'they' still DO (at least, here in AZ). But what you said about this subject has very little to do with the 'desire' to hunt, in reality. Hunting is a natural thing for PREDATORS to do. Denying our dna coding is bad, IMHO. I admit it, I'm a PREDATOR (in the food sense, of course). How do I know this? Well, I can only go by my personal 'experience' and scientific data concerning our ancestry, naturally. Since you place much stock in personal experiences, this should be right up your alley. In my very own personal experience, while hunting, my senses are hightened beyond all belief, I'm completely concentrated, I'm tuned into the environment (TOTALLY), I 'feel' the presence of my prey and 'feel' one with it (as one would feel 'one' with nature) and thus, outmaneuver my prey (if I'm very, very good that day). On a good day I KNOW exactly where they are going, I KNOW when and I KNOW how they are going to get there. Additionally, I KNOW if I'm likely to be successful that day and I KNOW if I'm definitely NOT going to be successful. Hunting is a 'peak experience' for me, the 'kill' is secondary actually (I do love the taste of 'organically grown meat,' though). Sounds like a 'spiritual experience,' doesn't it? IT'S NOT... It's just ME listening to what my DNA already knew how to do (and every fall, urges me to do). And I've NEVER felt more 'natural' in my entire life than when I'm doing this. It's what YOU might call 'holy.' I call it 'natural.' My reverence for the animal that I'm hunting never wanes; only grows. My reverence for the 'process' that created all of this never wanes; only grows. My reverence for a simple grouping of nucleic acids (dna) that is called 'life' never wanes; only grows. All without any assistance from his-holiness 'the goomer.' Amazing, huh???? In fact, I never felt more UNNATURAL than when I was following the goomer. His lifestyle and advice-to-premies bares no resemblence to anything that has ever been referred to as 'natural,' IMHO. Denying the simple fact that MY dna says, 'hunt and eat' is TOTALLY UNNATURAL. To me, the vegan diet is COMPLETELY UNNATURAL and my OWN body told me so when I gave it several years of serious effort. I was never more sick, more often then during that time period. By the way SHP, you ARE correct in assuming that I don't hunt trophies as 'trophies.' I have taken what is classed as 'trophy class' animals during a few of my hunts, but again that was NOT the purpose of my hunt. Additionally, you were QUITE CORRECT in saying that I DO use all of the animal (including the bones) to eat and/or make stuff. All of the hunters that I hang with are of the same mind; which is probably why we hang together. So, how doust thou judge me now that you have a more in-depth picture? To all the VEGANS on this forum: NO INSULTS INTENDED.... I was talking about MEEEE, not YOU, OK? :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:41:54 (EDT)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Steven Subject: Fantasy vs. Reality Message: Once upon a time, in India, there was a family business named Divine Light Mission. The busisness succeeded through convincing(conniving) people that they were recieving precious gifts from their 'master', gifts that they could get no where else in fact. Now we see that these 'gifts', breathing, appreciation of how precious life is, etc. are ours alone and always have been. Any way combine these 'gifts' with some meditation techniques that are freely available all over the world, mix in some Indian trappings, a little fear, ok a lot of fear,(don't reveal knowledge? or else?) and you have a very profitable little cult. So then the father dies and the pie winds up in little 8 year old prem pals lap, after a struggle for the crown that is. His handlers, mother, older brothers, western connections start an immense scam rolling in the west. Then Prem Pal realizes that its's all about 'HIM' and doen't need to share his pie with anyone. So he throws out his Mom and brothers and anyone else unwilling to toe the line. Since then, despite only a ninth grade education, he has managed to amass a fortune, chiefly through the work of others. His brother Bubblegumji runs the same, albeit smaller, operation as Prem Pal. Oh yea, but they don't acknowledge each others existence, oh well there are at least 60 other 'gurus' selling the same fantasy. Take your pick. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 18:46:26 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Fantasy vs. Reality Message: I see... you have made your pick. There are many more then 60. Do you know what your looking for in a Guru? Do you know what you want to get from that Guru? Or do you just want to get stuck on this,and forget your search? I mean what's it doing for you. Why did you go to M. in the first place. Or was it the second or third. What exactly attracted you to what was said. Was it something you could not explain with your mind? Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 14:17:35 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven is a liar Message: 1. You are showing us how to tighten security. If MJ is so great, why does he need tight security? 2. You are showing us how to put tight collars around Maharaji's representatives. You are teaching the P.R. people how to best talk to the Media. If MJ & his K are so great, why the need to control what the media says or what his PR people say. I mean, what is he--a business entity with junk bonds or the Lord? 3. Anyway now we have the thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands of brand new premies from the 90's. These people are doing most of the telling others. Remember Maharaji always said in those early years.' I have come to tell your children about this happiness inside.' Well now its happening by the thousands. These new people are his changes. You are a liar, Steven! All the communities have shrunk dramatically since last year. The only places MJ cult is growing are third world countries where the people are poorly educated. People in the west have heard about cults. The new folks who are recruited soon leave. You are a dinasaur, old-timer. BTW, why has MJ been insulting the long-term premies with such terms of endearment as Old-timers, relics, old hippies, etc. It's those people who got him where he is today. WHY does he insult them. He needs them to leave. They know too much. They know he's a liar. He needs fresh recruits with NO CONCEPTS such as the concepts he filled the old-timers heads with. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 15:19:20 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Gail Subject: Gail is Angry ! Message: Remember in the beginning there was the earth . No countries . I am truly feeling for your anger. Those that stay, want to. Those that are hurt heal. Just as you are,your way. Others have their way. Sincerely Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 15:54:44 (EDT)
From: Concerned PWK Email: None To: Gail Subject: Steven is ?! Message: I really trueley feel for you Gail, for your deep pain and anger, which actually has nothing to do with your unfounded hatred of the master. I am very sorry for you, but remember the lord, oops, I mean Master warned you that you would shatter in too many pieces to ever even count, if you turned your back on 'the one true path'! Rememeber! So, I guess you brought all this pain and agony on yourself, Angry Gail, you poor doomed munmat. Oh yeah don't forget there used to not even be a planet or even countries, so I guess that means, um, well.....something!!! Sincerely, Concerned PWK Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 18:34:03 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Concerned PWK Subject: Steven is civil! Message: I am sorry. But I am only going to respond to folks that are civil with me. I guess I will just have to be really sensitive and know that you folks here do not want to talk to any practicing knowledge people. Sorry for messing with your feathers. Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:44:04 (EDT)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven is civil! Message: Just a little humour Steven, lighten up. I'll stay serious for you, and civil too, if you will explain, why the techniques are supposed to be kept such a big secret. Explain how it went from 3 tons of rotten vegetables, and shattering into a million pieces, if you 'leave knowledge' to take it or leave it, no biggie, if you dont like it no harm, just walk. Would you explain why this isn't a reasonable hypocrisy to examine. Why won't Maharaji take part in any back and forth with his critics, or even just the objective press. Why won't he answer to anybody in any way other than his stiff, repressed, insensitive, backward style? Is it because he is the Master, and can do whatever he wants, and who are we to question the actions of the lord, etc. etc. Do you have another reason? Because the ha ha ha, its all lilas, is an immature cop out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:29:46 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Steven is civil! Message: Please refer to MY TURN above for my response on this subject. Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:44:52 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Concerned PWK Subject: Don't worry/anger Gail! Message: I've been through that stage. I've also read lots of stuff about it, I guess everyone leaving the cult has to go through it. I've also received lots of posts and e-mails from concerned PWK, they don't understand what we're going through! I hope they will, one day, when they'll also leave..... I guess this is also what the fatguru used to talk about when he was mentioning some premies who've tried to stop practicing and experienced hell. We're definitely in some sort of hell when we cut our bind with the BM. Thanks God, there is now support that you can have by the Internet's grace. I also wonder why the fatguru doesn't help the people leaving the way he helps the 'aspirants'! Why not having some drinks and cookies ready for those wanting to leave? 'The door is always open', but watch the step! What a relief afterwards. I wish you all premie lurkers the same thing! Maybe that sound scary. It's like when you have a rotten tooth pulled out. Maybe it's painful afterwards. Unless you choose to keep that rotten tooth, you'll have to get rid of it. JSCA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:26:42 (EDT)
From: steven Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Don't worry/anger Gail! Message: Jean-Michel You deffinitly have made your choice. With all the animosity around these days ,concerning different views and disliking people for what they choose. What you say is very common and not scary at all. On this platform. Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 12:48:08 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: steven Subject: Steven: others ARE scared! Message: You also have made some choice for the moment. Can you imagine that there are lots of premies sitting on the fence, and who are actually scared? That post was for THEM. I personnaly know some people experiencing this. Are you denying this possibility of being scared for people trying to leave m's cult, when m says that the door is wide open? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 10:46:36 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Concerned PWK Subject: Steven is ?! Message: Are you for real? Do you really think Gail is unhappy because she turned her back on the one true path? 'Remember,Maharaji said ...' That sounds like something Tami Rainbow would say, and she's a bimbo character I made up. How can you believe such a thing? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:33:19 (EDT)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Helen/JM Subject: Concerned PWK was a joke Message: I'm sorry it was me posing as Concerned PWK. I was trying to make a satire on Stevens post to gail, which I found to be insensitive and patronising. I thought it was obvious with the sentence 'Remember there used to not even be any planets or even a country, and that means, um, uh something! I guess I better stick to my day job! Sheesh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:35:32 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: Helen Subject: Steven is ?! Message: Helen, Thats not what I meant. What I meant was that she is angry with M. and premies who still practice. If I am wrong about this then she will tell me. Not you. But how honest to her own feelings is she to let them out? I do not mind being righted. Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 12:07:14 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Steven/Marshall Subject: Satire Message: Steven, your acknowledging that Gail was angry did not bother me. A lot of us here are angry at M, that's no news flash. Marshall's post which I now know was just satire, but that I thought was from a real premie, bothered me. Marshall, that was pretty funny because it was so true to life, a little too close to home. Maybe concerned PWK and Tami Rainbow can get together. One time I did my Tami Rainbow schtick and someone thought I was for real, it was pretty funny. Hey keep up the satire it's funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 13:51:50 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Steven Subject: I am angry at the Right Person Message: Certainly not anyone who posts here. I don't like Guru Margarine! For example, one friend (I don't know if she still believes in MJ or not) has started going to see someone else. She says MJ was a stepping stone to her latest beloved. She went to Manilla to pray that the Earth did not fly off its axis. She went on to discuss my anger at being duped. She feels perfectly ok about the Fatguru. I feel very badly because I got her into Guru Margarine's cult in the first place. I can't believe she could just go on to the next thing on the path realization of her soul. What a noble thing--praying for the earth. IT ALL MAKES ME SICK! I can't seem to let go. I shouldn't care what others believe, but it seems like such a waste. Throughout the ages most humans are trapped by one belief system or another. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:16:29 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Steven Subject: Steven is ?! Message: Hello Steven: If you read down this far today, I would like to correct a misperception (IMHO). You seem to think that we are mad at premies and M, but you miss the most important point. What really pisses ME off is the LIE! It was all a LIE; a real WHOPPER; the grandest of LIES! That the LOTU came down from on high to bring peace to this world and all that inhabit it. When I found out (finally) that this was all a LIE, then I got P.I.S.S.E.D. No doubt about it, I'm pissed at the LIE, the LIAR and THOSE that continue to spread the LIE! Remember....What this is all about.... A LIE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 21:44:15 (EDT)
From: Red Email: @under the bed. com To: Everyone Subject: K lite? Message: Could someone explain K lite premie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 22:47:56 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Red Subject: K lite? Message: Rawatt's teaching of late which does not require his followers to worship him, see him as God incarnate. The practice has been relaxed to a simple meditation practice, from a lifestyle practice where followers were urge to 'totally surrender.' Capiche? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:56:28 (EDT)
From: red Email: None To: Runamok Subject: K lite? Message: thats what I thought thanks Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 19:42:08 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: anyone interested Subject: Neural Surfer gone soft? Message: I just thought some of you may be interested to see that David Lane (author of the 'Neural Surfer' website) seems to be tiring of deconstructing Gurus! Here's what he say's: THE CONVERSION OF THE NEURAL SURFER: It has become exceedingly obvious to me that I can no longer 'deconstruct' religions and cults the same way. This is not to suggest that I have let go of my critical mind (that is part and pacel of my package) but only that after time it is important to 'reconstruct' a more positive and powerful story. In other words, the real scum bag guru is not somewhere 'outside' but can on closer inspection be a feature of our own makeup. Hang out with roses and you begin to smell like flowers, as the cliche goes. The same holds true with trash. What this means for me personally is what Nietzsche may term the 'artist's life'--a way to paint new portraits based upon the totality of one's life experiences. I have looked in the mirror and found that there needs to be a major transformation of how to live this life. There are endless guru wars, endless cult controversies, endless bad stories about spiritual teachers gone south, and in the infinity of this rubbish, there comes a moment when one must either choose nihilism or choose art. It is time to choose Art, a time to choose Dance, a time to choose Invention. This does not mean that the old articles on the Neural Surfer will disappear (they too, I would imagine, have their place), but that my focus will be on UpLIFTING the narratives centering my life. One can only talk about plagiarism, deceit, and corruption for so long. I am thoroughly exhausted. I am also at the stage where I realize that the way we think is often governed by what Blackmore and Dennett and Dawkins have called 'memes'--replicating units of ideas. Even if memetic theory is sophomoric or incomplete, its metaphoric power is illuminating. I am tired of the deconstructing meme. I am tired of the cynical meme. I am tired. Time for the Neural Surfer to ride NEW Waves of Information, NEW Waves of Transformation. Time for the Neural Surfer to be Reflective, not Projective. In sum: the TRANSFORMED NEURAL SURFER is on how to move from skepticism to creativity (and hopefully not bypassing that obstruction known as the brain just to get to one's heart). Naturally I will still be critical, but hopefully with a more integrative vision, a larger and more pregnant holonic context. The first step is a series of articles (some autobiographical) in which I try to come to grips with how one can see through the 'Guru has No Turban' motif but still persist in being open, being connected, being 'spiritual.' I use the latter term hesitatingly, but what I mean by it is the idea that at our core we have a deeply emotional/spiritual component that cannot be satisfied by merely intellectual ruminations. Nietszche, for instance, didn't believe in God, but he postulated the 'Super Man.' Or, as I have often commented, the Best Christian is the one who can Love Jesus EVEN if he NEVER resurrected. Or, in our guru analogy, 'Can you love your guru even if he is Number one on the Scum Bag Guru list?' This is not to condone ethical transgressions, but rather to move BEYOND them into a more enlightened sphere where we stop to realize that even though all gurus may be human, so too are ALL disciples. Time, in other words, to move away from being like Toto and pulling away the curtain to show the Wizard's frailities. Time, in other words, to see how we can MOVE beyond our frailities. How I, years after my guru's death and after my own existential spiral, can learn to surf finer waves of the mind, finer waves of the body, finer waves of the heart. Time to surf anew. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 20:44:30 (EDT)
From: dv Email: None To: Anon Subject: Sounds like 'forum burnout'... Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 22:25:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Anon Subject: Neural Surfer gone soft? Message: Dear Anon, I loved that post. I think he is a very wise person. He did his thing to expose corruption but stopped short of letting it fill his being. I have a lot of respect for that. I think maybe that has something to do with why most people come and go from here. It is mostly here to help people get out or never get in but also for us old timers to work through buried stuff from the past or old open wounds but to let it all fill your being, how sad, that is letting the con man win, he still controls you. Maybe you don't agree with Neural Surfer or me...another risk of offending some I guess. I'll brace myself. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 02:22:39 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Anon Subject: Neural Surfer gone soft? Message: Amazing website the guy has. Had no idea he had such an active presence on the internet. He's got numerous forums going on relevant topics to those we discuss and his email plastered all over the place. Not to mention his writings all over the place. If it is forum burnout that inspired the comments you posted, Anon, it would be easy enough to ask him... if you can tear yourself away from his Radsahuomi forum (sorry, I do not know how to spell it) or any of numerous other ones (including on ev psych). Check it out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 00:40:34 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Neural Surfer cont... Message: I again want to recommend checking out the site. Lane mentioned that he lost a suit from guru John-Roger (according to another post, a guru associated with Arianna Huffington, columnist) and had a website shut down due to pressure from Sai Baba devotees on the server. Lane's change of heart may be related to some of these pressures. He also mentioned that the publication of a book, _The Guru has No Turban_ (by him) was being delayed in part dues to these pressures. Lane apparently had a guru, and is not just a social scientist investigating the phenomena. The website(s) include numerous topic related forums, and there does seem to be as much metaphysics as science under discussion in a very orderly, intellectual manner. I'm lurking before the post and finding it quite interesting. Thanks, Anon. Good one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 12:19:01 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Denise and 90's ex's Subject: What if.... Message: I know very little about the cult today. I followed the reigns of your life thread below and have a question for all who were involved in the K lite 90's. If Rawat were to hold a large festival next month and at that festival bring back the old trip....lets say it starts slow, the first night he 'hints' about great things to come. The instructors give satsangs/speeches with big smiles and gleams in their eyes also hinting at the guru's divinity. The next day...DARSHAN!...and low and behold at night he wears the Khrishna costume ( see JMs page for pics if you do not know what that is) and then suddenly the premies start singing a clearly devotional lord type song, and he smiles and encourages it... Sunday night....full court press....Indian trip, sing Lord of the Universe...Arti....etc.... What would happen? Would today's premies yell 'boo' from the audience? Get up and leave? Or would they feel like all their deepest feelings about the trip were seeing fruition, with M admitting he REALLY IS GOD? Would they leave in droves? Or would their faith be bolstered? Do K lite premies, deep down inside, think he is God but think it is just taboo to say it outright? I would bet big bucks the people who hang on from the '70s think so, but what about the new folks? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 20:17:01 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: g's mom Subject: What if.... Message: the K-Lite premies I personally know would be running like hell to get out of there! The ones I have been in contact with do not think he is God. They came for the meditation and have stayed to be inspired by their loving wise teacher. The truth is, I don't even know how I would respond to darshan. Devotional music and songs to the Lord are fine (Lord does not equal God to me, only a wiseman with a pure consciousness). I don't even know how I would respond if he said he was God, even before. It maybe would have stirred some very uncomfortable feelings and doubts. Though I received K in the early 80's, I was surrounded by really heavy duty 70s premies who passed down as much of the trip to me as they could. Ashrams were still around and so were the festivals in Miami, so I got a taste but much toned down. I guess that would make me somewhere between the two extremes. I did feel a lot of love for GMJ. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 20:30:21 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: g's mom Subject: What if.... Message: I was a K-lite 90's premie, and even though there never were things like Arti and the Krishna christmas tree headgear bit, he sprang darshan on me twice, I listened to devotional songs numerous times at events sung by a lot of the same people who have sung for him for the last 20 or so years, watched M do his wanky little dance lots of times and saw all the premies get up, sing, clap and do the general devotee carry-on. It's hard to say what I would have felt like had MJ ever come out in his Krishna costume, but I think the thing is, as a premie, you've already became a braindead brainwashed zombie, and so much more receptive to things that you normally would have been repulsed by, so who knows, maybe I would have been charmed by it, or felt it was just another quaint little Indian tradition that I could have insight into - which is how I felt about darshan originally. There's also that feeling of not wanting to be alone in a blissed out, seemingly homogenous crowd by 'not enjoying' a lot of the hoohah, so you just fake that you enjoy it (I certainly felt that way with a lot of the songs which were not to my taste at all. Actually just as I wrote this, I had this funny little picture in my mind of Maharaji doing a big dive into the crowd (like a mosh-pit and crowd-surfing over the premies) - sorry, just a funny little thought....) Do K lite premies, deep down inside, think he is God but think it is just taboo to say it outright? I would bet big bucks the people who hang on from the '70s think so, but what about the new folks? I didn't think he was 'God' (using my childhood definition here!), but I certainly felt he was the closest to it on earth, you know, THE master, THE one, on the same level as how I previously had put dudes like JC, Krishna, Buddha etc etc, and that wasn't just from my own little muddle-fucked mind. I certainly believe that Maharaji knows that this is how a lot of us feel and he constantly perpetuates that illusion by so much of what he says, not to mention all the 70's premies telling you how K is written about in all the holy books, and that there is always a Master on the planet etc etc. I reckon you really have to believe he is 'divine' to get up to and past the K session and carry on with all the rest of the premie devotional bollocks, and speaking about MJ with gushy reverent tones is not taboo, at least I didn't find it that way. On the contrary, all the premies I knew would openly speak about how he was 'the one'! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 00:24:26 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: TD and Denise Subject: thanks Message: I think that even in the seventies we did not say, 'HE is GOD' but we said everything but that, and we certainly thought that. It was sort of forbidden, in an unspoken way, to say it too directly. Oh sure, he can sit under a Lord of the Universe sign, we can sing Arti, etc...but I do not recall people at satsang saying 'He is God'. But like you say, master, Lord, comparing him to Buddha, Krhisna etc...that was all standard. The Lord thing is funny. I guess there is Lord as in Lord Mountbatten, and Lord as in 'Dear Lord, please bless this family with enough to eat'. Even though Rawat lives like the former kind of Lord I think we all thought of him as the latter. K lite to me sounds weirder than K heavy in a way. Loads of innuendo and lots of paranoia. At least that is how it sounds. But at least in the K lite times it sounds as if the biggest thing that was asked of premies is bucks. Really, for the long term, the guru is smart to let premies get educated and have incomes...more to donate to him in the long haul. A guys gotta find a way to retire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 05:12:32 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: New technology Message: The whole show has become more simple, and the only missing thing is the Krishna outfit, at least until 96 when I left. M doesn't sit on a throne anymore, but the stage itself is a huge throne at most intl programs. The stages for the Long Beach events have been more crazy than anything you can imagine. I think I'll have some video clips on my website to show this. Arti, darshan etc: still going on in India twice a year, and has been since the 80s. Don't forget that most of the westerners get there from time to time, and all the die-hard won't miss any program in India. I've been there douzens of times. Don't forget the darshan in Amaroo, Malaysia, Africa, Mauritius, several time a year, and lots of westerners go there for this very purpose! I'll definitely have some arti and darshan video clips on my website. This is the next thing I'm going to do. Also: M is also now using some extremely poweful new technology, like hypnotic videos ('Now and forever') with low frequency beats that have extremely powerful effects on the emotional level. Usually at the end of the program. I'd love to have a copy of that one, and have a video clip on my website. Anybody owning a copy of that video? Or any other of that kind? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 11:27:51 (EDT)
From: gerry Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: New technology Message: Also: M is also now using some extremely poweful new technology, like hypnotic videos ('Now and forever') with low frequency beats that have extremely powerful effects on the emotional level. Now this is scary because there is so much out there now, really sophisticated sound technologies available commercially. I was afraid he was heading in this direction. The first time I saw a video (Longbeach 1996?) I was struck by the extremely hypnotic nature of it. Dick Sutphen, of ''The Battle for Your Mind'' fame, consults with churches and sales organization on ways to use these technologies. For instance, they play certain sounds which make your brain begin to go into an alpha brain wave state, in which you are very relaxed, and most importantly for BM, open to suggestion. So, it seems likely that BM is using this stuff on his videos and at ''events.''. My question is how much and how long has he been using it? Could this be part of the ''realy big plans'' just around the corner? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 12:27:54 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: gerry Subject: New technology Message: The worse thing about it is that you really love that kind of video. I guess you've seen that 'Now and forever' video. Do you remember how one feels after watching it! How long is it? 30 mn? 45mn? With nothing but hypnotic rythmn and images (legs of people walking in slow motion)....and m said he's edited it himself! I guess he's himself fascinated by that sort of stuff! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:18:30 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: New technology Message: Yes, JM, I've always liked the hypnotic videos the best! They would totally put me where I wanted to be. I'm such a ding dong, I didn't figure out that the walking video I saw at Long Beach (I assume it's the 'Now & Forever' video, shown at the end of the program) was people in a darshan line. At least this is what another premie later told me and it made sense once they said so. I guess I didn't think in those terms because I've never had the opportunity (?) for darshan. Is that what y'all understood it to be? I thought it was supposed to be symbolic of the walk through one's life with Knowledge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 03:38:38 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Denise Subject: Now & Forever Message: That video is definitely a VERY powerful tool the BM is now using. I remember a few times when I hadn't been so impressed by his discourse, but THAT precise video did it! This is actually a mixture of some of the most deceitful stuff. I'd love to get hold of a copy of that one, and distribute it. Anybody? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 14:02:04 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Now & Forever Message: As far as I know that video was never released to anyone. It was shown at a few programs. That's it! How could he release that junk. It is proof that he is using brainwashing techniques. It goes to the beat of the human heart. He admitted that to us. He gloated about writing the music for it and psyching it to he man's dancing. The MUSIC consisted of about 7 notes played monotonously. BTW, that is enought to drive a parrot insane. That is why it is not recommed that you play the same thing again and again. Parrots don't even have a frontal lobe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 17:52:12 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: Hi everyone, Do you know, I think the healthiest and most useful part of this web-site is that when a premie has doubts he/she is free to air them here. I think the most unhealthiest thing about M & Elan Vital & premies in general is that when a premie has a normal doubt about something they feel they have to suppress it and also feel they can never speak honestly about the way that they feel to their supposed 'brothers and sisters. It is very normal to have doubts about things especially 'religious things' and it is very unhealthy to have to suppress them along with all the guilt this may entail. What do you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 20:30:01 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Liz Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: Hi Liz I tend to agree. I was thinking about a post down below in which a premie pointed out that if you look at any organisation, there'll be some problems. This is true, and I ask myself at times whether my problems with MJ are just a product of my tendency to want things to be perfect. Which of course it unreasonable. The answer, it seems to me, is that in 'healthy' organisations and relationships, the problems may be there, but they can be raised and discussed. There may not always be an easy solution, but at least the issues can be out in the open, and the people involved can try to see a way through. I use this guideline in deciding whether to involve myself - or my kids - in various 'worldly' situations, like schools and school committees (bet there are others who can relate to that one!) Of course, if one's involvement is only peripheral, then it doesn't matter too much, from a personal point of view (though there still might be wider ethical issues). But when it's 'about' the core of one's being - well it matters a great deal. Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 20:47:19 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Diz Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: That's funny - Liz to Diz. I thought at first you were a male but now I think we're a pair of Dizzy-Lizzies! In fact I think I have been a Dizzy Lizzie a lot whilst I have been a premie and before and after. I'm going to try and rectify this. (I don't mean that you are dizzy, Diz. Pretty clear-thinking I would say. Slowing down, thinking things out, meditating, I think will all help to make me less of a Dizzy Lizzie! I agree very much with you. Speaking to the forum or to a journal or to an uninvolved person are not enough. Premies need to communicate with other premies on a personal 'sat-sanga' type of relationship for it to become a lot healthier. I think I'll write to m about this but alas, I fear/know I won't get a reply. Shame on him. Just think of all the premies that would love to write letters for him as service. I think he has readers or may be letters go straight in the garbage these days. Who can tell, your guess is as good as mine when there's no bloody communication! Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 06:36:39 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Liz Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: Hi Liz Yeah, I can relate to the Dizzy-Lizzy thing - I do feel kinda dizzy and daffy sometimes. Good luck with your letter to MJ. I gave up, after five or six years of letters and praying. I used to long to walk in the park with him, discussing things he'd said that I couldn't quite agree with. Maybe we could reach a common understanding, I thought... Silly me. Now I talk with friends about life and love and all that stuff. We may not have all the answers but at least we can chuck ideas around. And I don't have to hide doubts, from myself or from them. I don't think, nowadays, that I'd want someone to write me 'the answer' if I had a doubt. I would like to gather ideas - which I guess is what the forum is about. Keeping the final decision as to what's what with myself is not as easy as just letting go to MJ and saying 'father knows best'. Sometimes I'd love that easy surrender back. But I sense that that 'longing' is as much to do with weakness in myself, a Peter Pan type of wish to escape responsibility, as it is to do with anything genuinely spiritual. I think there is an element of legitimacy to it - we ARE little creatures, we don't have the strength to carry the universe on our shoulders, sometimes we do need places to let go. But let go to what or whom? I think letting go to K is probably just fine, so long as it isn't an escape from other aspects of life. Letting go to another human being is a different matter. I bet many people felt good when they handed over responsibility to the political big daddy of the day, whether that was Mao or Hilter or Saddam Hussein. But were they worthy objects of surrender? Is any human being? I don't think so, any more. I like letting go when someone rubs my back. Now that's a surrender I can handle. Take care, Liz Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 09:49:40 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: That's a great post Diz and I'm going to print it out. It is a model to me of healthy spirituality. I think it is only now after hanging out on the forum for 6 months, that I am able to acknowledge doubts about God, an afterlife and other concepts that have comforted me all my life. It's a huge relief to be another slob on the bus as the Joan Osborne song goes, fearing death & trying to appreciate the life I have, like every other human being on the planet. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 11:50:17 (EDT)
From: fred Email: None To: Liz Subject: Healthy Doubts Message: I remember in the mid-70s having a moment or two of doubt and then, like a good premie, repeating the words Never Leave Room For Doubt In Your Mind. I would blissfully (not really) leave my thoughts behind and Constantly Meditate And Remember The Holy Name. I did feel guilty about even having doubts and thought that this is the evil mind trying to get control of my life. God I wish that I had listened to myself and just sought answers to the natural questions that occured. Now I really know that I was being brain-washed. Those 5 commandments were such an obvious (in hindsight) brain-washing technique. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 23:35:49 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: fred Subject: Right, said Fred Message: Sorry, I didn't have to do that but I did and I'm sorry. Won't do it again. Anyway, you are right as hell, Fred. Just the verbatim commandments themselves tell the whole fucking story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 14:06:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It's kind of wacky, isn't it? Message: I have accepted an invitation to an event in Mar del Plata, Argentina on June 5, 6, and 7, 1999. The event will include a Knowledge session on June 7th. This wooden cult phraseology cracks me up. So self-important, so stylized and so damned stupid. Reminds me of one of the little pompous Lilliputian kings in Gulliver's Travels. This tiny voice announcing to the world, 'ahem....Ahem! We would like to take this opportunity to announce Our Acceptance of an Invitation to and Event' .... Yeah, right!! What bullshit, eh? As if Maharaji idly sits like on the deck of his Malibu mansion like some aging imperial drag princess waiting, just waiting, for the right Invitation. Alas, not this one and no, not that either. Then, finally, it comes. A messenger arrives. He's ushered in to the Courier Room and soon Maharaji himself comes in. The messenger kneels, then sensing the Master's munificent bon vivance and knowing no one's there to stop him anyway, he bows further and prostrates himself at the sweaty, little feet, his brow barely grazing past the stubby toes, ever so lightly but sure enough that he can't help but notice that he's picked up a few beads of the Master's perspiration. It's there on his forehead, he knows for sure, as he rises and begins to open his leather portfolio. His heart is exploding as he opens the flap and hands the Master the wax-sealed parchment. 'And this?' asks Maharaji. 'What's this you have, boy?' 'It's an Invitation, Master. And Invitation to an Event!' The messenger is overcome with love and can barely explain himself. Yet, he expected this natural rush of love in his Master's presence and so now, pressing on, he incants the words he's been pracising for days throughout his journey: 'The People who have received Knowledge and are Enjoying their Lives with It of Mar del Plata, Argentina, hereby Invite you to an Event in that place. It will be held on June 5, 6 and 7th, 1999.' He bows his head meekly. He has done it. As a boy he dreamed of one day travelling to meet with greatness. As a boy he promised his mother, who was older than him, that one day he would meet the face of greatness and invite that man back to their little resort by the sea for an Event of some kind. Of course, neither he nor his mother knew what he was speaking of. 'Event'? What foolishness was that, she wondered as she smaked him on the ear. No, she understood nothing and he, young and without Knowledge as he was, could not answer her. It was the language of the Heart he spake and in that realm neither yet knew their way. Now he chuckled silently as he looked up again at his Master. True, the Master could say anything now. He could say 'yes', he could say 'no'. But the messenger cared not. He felt love and, unlike ever before, fierce alternating pangs of Appreciation and Gratitude. His heart swirled in extasy, his mind couldn't touch it. This roller-coaster of love, Appreciation, then Gratitude, then Appreciation again, continued for what can only be described as an eternity before the messenger felt the new, gentle resolve of Understanding. Only then did the Master speak: 'Yes, I accept. There will be a Knowledge session on June 7th.' It wasn't exactly as if He spoke to the messenger although no others were with them then. Not physically anyway. No, it was as if he spoke to the sea. He spoke to the sky. He spoke to the mountains. His voice just a small lilt above a whisper, the Master's words spoke straight to his heart. He bowed again, this time longer than before. The Master took the parchment with him as he moved back out onto the deck. He would read the Invitation twice more that day before his nap. He would read it again when he awoke and got ready for dinner. At the restaurant, before anyone had even ordered their drinks, let alone any food, he would tell them: 'I have accepted an invitation to an event in Mar del Plata, Argentina on June 5, 6, and 7, 1999. The event will include a Knowledge session on June 7th.' No one said anything at first. They just looked at each other and smiled. Who knows how long they'd have stay just like that if the waitperson hadn't come back? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 15:55:50 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's kind of wacky, isn't it? Message: HILARIOUS! I am going to put it on the message board at the local cafe where the premies hang out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 19:12:39 (EDT)
From: kb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Insureing 'smoothness' Message: Dont forget to include the check backstage with the staff that confirms that the money has been assured by those from that area. Enough money that it will be 'smooth'. Without the crucial 'smooth' factor, no visit will be happening. The lord travels in total smooth style befitting the lord of the age and it all must be covered by the local area followers. Your post is superb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 21:15:03 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: kb Subject: Insureing 'smoothness' Message: and thank goodness theres that automatic bank withdrawal form in case the busy premmies leading modern lives would like their staying in 'touch' to be an automatic bank transaction/sorry/donation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 01:42:11 (EDT)
From: Forum Friends Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: How are you Bobby? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 12:36:12 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Forum Friends Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hey, I have been hesitant to answer again in Bobby's behalf. The last time you posted I had just received an email from him asking me to send on word to his forum friends that he was doing badly and couldn't spend time on his computer. Oddly enough I hadn't heard from him since then and was getting very worried but then he called me on Friday. He had been in the hospital and had been very bad but was, by Friday feeling a lot better and was home again. He had had no vioce at the time of your other thread but although hoarse, his voice was there and recognisable on Friday. He said it may still be some time before he gets on the computer. I left your post alone thinking maybe he would get to the forum but decided to just let you know what I know and am happy to share as it is good news. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 19:17:16 (EDT)
From: FF Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: It's just such a dreadful thing to have him go through. The Bobby thread is a forum constant and I and others are greateful that you let us know about him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 20:20:01 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: FF, Robyn Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hi Robyn, FF Thanks for starting this thread, FF. And thanks Robyn for letting us know how Bobby is going. I'm glad it's good news, but a guess that's all relative. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to face that kind of trouble - both the disease and the treatment are so fierce. Please pass on my best wishes to Bobby. I think of him often. Love, Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 22:25:14 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Just wanted you to know that we're routing for Bobby and wish him all the best. I hope you are feeling better soon. Much Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 09:55:00 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hi Bobby - hope you're back on line by now. We've been a bit worried about you. I'm sorry that you had to go to the hospital - I know you aren't all that fond of hospitals. Anyway, thanks very much for calling Robyn and letting her know what was going on. I hope things are better after the last radiation treatments (doesn't sound like much fun, to say the least). Take care of yourself - we're thinking about you. Lots of love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 17:45:31 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Forum Friends Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hi folks, Yesterday was my last medical treatment. I went through 60 doses of radiation to the head and neck and two chemotherapy treatments. The treatments got very intense for a time, giving me reference point for experiences of true hell. :{} I was in the hospital on a few occasions and did a 7 day stint that ended last Friday. The worst phases broke last week and things got a whole lot better. Support from friends was awesome. I feel truly grateful for the people who came forward in giving, prayers and loving. People were there for me in major ways. This support includes people from this forum. Now I'm in the next phase of my healing process. The treatments took their toll on body, mind and spirit. I gotta say that the spiritual components of all of this has been awesome and in some ways a real gift. Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:25:23 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hey Bobby, Been thinking about you alot lately, wishing you well. I don't know you very long, and we haven't had alot of contact, but I love you like a brother whether you respect Maharaji or not, because you come off like a brother to me whether I respect Maharaji or not. My prayers are with you. The biggest souls sometimes get the heaviest loads to carry, and everyone around learns from it. I pray that you get through this with mortal body intact. Whatever happens, you are in my heart. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 01:29:57 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread / PS Message: PS Could you please post your website URL or drop a link if you're up to it? I forgot to bookmark it and can't find it now. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 11:08:17 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Shp Subject: URL for Sacred Transformations Message: http://www.well.com/user/bobby/ (It's under Bobby Manrodt's name in the 'White Pages' on this site...) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 17:58:48 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Good to hear from you Bobbie. Sounds like a very full-on time you've been having - I can't even imagine. I'm glad folks were there for you. Best wishes with your next phase of healing. Love, Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 20, 1999 at 18:24:25 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: I hate the Big 'C' and have seen enough of it in my family. Hang in there! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 00:33:30 (EDT)
From: JP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: bullshit nirvana Message: We can try to understand, we can do whatever we can do to place this situation into proper perspective,in our own lives,but I'm not really clear on what happened,to me it seems like a clouded dream, it was very interesting, mystical,from a western outlook.I come from a small town in Ohio, to be around all of these Indian guys in saffron,was just a bit much, to me it was kinda cool, as I'm shure it was for a lot of you,we were young,naive, looking for truth,something beyond what we were raised to follow. I can see why we became easy prey,but I really don't think M knew what he was doing, he may have been at 13, just as much as a victim as we were. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 16:11:39 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: JP Subject: bullshit nirvana Message: I can see why we became easy prey,but I really don't think M knew what he was doing, he may have been at 13, just as much as a victim as we were. Do you think M was still a victim at 18? How about at 20? How about at 40? And if he really was a victim at 13, and being a victim he wasn't responsible for victimizing the rest of us, wouldn't it behoove him at age 40 to acknowledge that and try to do something about it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 15, 1999 at 23:31:47 (EDT)
From: steven Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Which is it ? Message: Sir David, You just prooved yourself a hypocrite . At least it looks that way to me ? I like you though your amusing with your childishness. . It's always just out of reach, just around the corner and nobody ever gets there. It used to be constant meditation and merging with the word. Then later it was total surrender to Maharaji, the Lord.(>Nobody<)( ever) achieved it because there was nothing there to be achieved. (>It's all a myth. <) He has bastardized a (>common<)( experience) that (anyone) can have.) So David is it a Myth or can anybody have it ?? Which is it big guy? Sincerely Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 01:27:50 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: steven Subject: Which is it ? Message: A myth is a female moth Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 08:27:15 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: steven Subject: Hypocrisy? Message: I'm sure Sir D can answer your rude little post perfectly well, Steve, if he thinks it worth the effort, but in the meantime, consider the following: (1) Whatever it is that people experience in meditation is a common enough experience. Anyone can have it and Maharaji is irrelevant. (2) The whole concept of 'going deeper', 'realising Knowledge' or 'merging with the word' is a myth. Nothing mutually contradictory about statements (1) and (2), and certainly nothing hypocritcal. But hypocrisy is a pretty good description for the way premies allow themselves to believe they have attained a level of spiritual advancement unknown to the rest of the world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 00:08:37 (EDT)
From: Steven Email: None To: nigel Subject: re Message: Nigel, On this side of the fence it is a rude post . On the other side of the fence David's post was kind of rude . I do apprecitate everyone's views . I get over zelous sometimes just as folks over here do . In my habitat I get along in this world very well with people that practice and with people that don't, and with people who never heard of any of this stuff. You know when someone is comfortable with something then that person can usually understand other's views without getting upset. Right ? I know that Nigel has his view , so does Jim, So Does Sir David and every one here . I don't care about the name calling or etc. I am in a learning thing here. I sincerely understand that when a person reaches a certain point in their life they must vent it . Just like a boiler safety valve . At least I do . Its real hard for me to contain my manors sometimes but I know it just makes things worse when the testasteroin level rises. You and Jim and Brian and Katie and David and most of the folks over here are actually makeing it very clear over here that Things do need change and believe me they are . I can tell you that Maharaji is definitly makeing some heavy changes. Its in the wind ,just around the corner and is in sight and not a myth. Steven Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 02:43:32 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Steven Subject: re Message: Being a titled person and having been given much property by her Majesty, I also have the same problem, containing my manors. However, I told Elizabeth that the five manors she has bestowed upon me are enough for my army of servants and ladies-in-waiting to contend with. Thankfully, her Royal Highness understood. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 09:58:30 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Steven Subject: re: M's changes Message: Hi Steven, What are the 'heavy changes' M is making? It sounds kind of vague. Can you be more concrete?? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 12:26:10 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Steven Subject: ditto Helen's post Message: What heavy changes? Why do you think this? Are you saying something on this site is inspiring these heavy changes? Are you saying that is good? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 13:24:04 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: g's mom Subject: 'heavy ' changes! Message: really heavy! Security has taken over obviously. Talk about changes! Security's network is spread all over, and actually ruling EV. Premies (left) are really well taken care of, and obviously enjoying their next breath! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 17, 1999 at 17:10:36 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Steven Subject: 'Big Changes' Message: I think it's very interesting that the 'big' changes are always 'just around the corner,' but never really happen. This kind of idea was common for the entire time I was a premie. Unless Maharaji resigns, admits his foolish, fraudulent behavior that damaged a lot of people, including claiming to be the incarnation of god, I cannot even imagine a 'change' that would be very 'big.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 07:33:47 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: TheThingsYouSay To: Jim Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: How would you fucking know,you canuck loser.You spend your whole life here being the consumate expert on every thing,but I doubt youever get out of your own loungeroom Even if there were big changes, dont you realise you'll always be the last to know.The biggest change you'll notice is when you clutch your chest ,gasp once and stop breathing. Good riddance I'd say,and then push you down the insinkerator!!As for you writing a book,it would be the shortest in history,a blank page with one word 'I' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 11:44:51 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: No, Your (sic) unbelievable. Message: Well, Weasel, aren't we sweet. But you never seem to be able to do anything other than make oblique references to all the 'changes' while NEVER saying anything to what they are nor how the hell you would even know. And so your post, besides bordering on illiterate, is also full of hypocrisy. So Weasel, when did BM ever admit a mistake? When did he ever take responsiblity for any of the multitude of things that went wrong his is little cult, something you would expect any responsible adult to do? How come he's such a failure at 'propogation' in the west if 'disseminating knowledge', and not accumulating wealth for himself for which he has been wildly successful, is his priority? How come he's lost way more followers than he ever had? In the meantime, I'm sure we are all waiting with baited breath of his big CHANGES. Since you are so much on the inside of the cult, we are counting on you to let us all know but as of yet you haven't given any indication that you would know either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:33:06 (EDT)
From: CATWEASEL Email: None To: JW Subject: No, Your (sic) unbelievable. Message: FIND THE VIDEOS YOURSELF FUCKWIT. IS THAT LEGIBLE? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 13:06:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Okay, Brian was right Message: How would you fucking know,you canuck loser.You spend your whole life here being the consumate expert on every thing,but I doubt youever get out of your own loungeroom Even if there were big changes, dont you realise you'll always be the last to know.The biggest change you'll notice is when you clutch your chest ,gasp once and stop breathing. Good riddance I'd say,and then push you down the insinkerator!!As for you writing a book,it would be the shortest in history,a blank page with one word 'I' I guess I have to admit Brian was right about not barring you from posting here. For a while, I thought you weren't trying to discuss things and were just trying to flame people. No matter what they said, I thought, you'd find a way to smear your little poo stain in a post below. I thought -- then -- that you might even be laughing throughout, thinking how deliciously wonderful that you could get away with this especially in light of the fact taht you can't even have a discussion, let alone try to ruin one, on any of the sanctioned premie sites. Back then. I thought you didn't deserve to be able to do this indefinitely, that sooner or later, someone should show you the door. But now, Cat ol' buddy, I think you're kind of cool. You really are a living, breathing display of what one can achieve following the Master of Love, the one-time child Lord of the Universe. You're like a little flashing bit of animation on the top of the page. Want to see a real live premie? Click here. No, I admit it. You're making a serious contribution to this page. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 19:58:34 (EDT)
From: Tami Sunshine Rainbow Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: Yu tel them, Wesil. Yu sound lik a primi filed wit luv. No wat I meen? The x-prmis ar so wikked and meen and yu are so filled wit luv. An yu are not nigitiv like the x-primis. Wat do they no? They do not undrstan what the gif iz, lik yu and me. They wast thr lifes pissin on Maraji. They have rottin veggies. HAHAHA. I dunt need anithin but Maraji. He iz my lard and yu are hiz primi. Ar yu married? Bole Shree. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:38:56 (EDT)
From: SIDNIGH Email: CRAP FROM GOOSEHELL To: Tami Sunshine Rainbow Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: GOOSE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:16:56 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: Oh my beautiful brother Catweasel. It is just so beautiful to see what an incredible gift of love you have been given by the LIVING MASTER of our time, such love as you display in your post to the canuck loser and the blissful gratitude it shows. We will never be able to know, see, comprehend or experience how fortunate we are to know that breath, that breath which this life, and which is that gift, that which a gift that is that love, that peace that joy and that experience that is just so beautiful from the lotus feet of love that will fill you up in that place with that experience -- those lotus feet that ride in THE plane, THE motorhome, and sits in THE residence. It's just so incredible to see that beauty to have that fulfillment and that devotion --I mean that gratitude. The ex-premies here do not have that understanding of that peace, that joy, that love, that place, that experience and that knowledge. I hope one day they will have that understanding once again by the grace of the master, of that joy, that love, that peace and that experience which is a gift and the breath of that life and which is that experience. And we are so fortunate that Maharaji reminds us always of our need for the master. Otherwise we are nothing more than sewer seepage. Please, check out my 'life' on Enjoyinglife.org. I hope it reminds you of that gift. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 21:37:34 (EDT)
From: John Hammond-Smyth Email: padded.cell@asylum.com To: Pauline Premie Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: How blessed are we to have a brother like Catweasel to reach through to the hearts of these stinking, ignorant baboons who have not evolved with the master of our time and ALL time and has given them the greatest gift that could ever be in the whole universe and beyond the gift of breath that nobody else has and the people of this world with their mean little thoughts will never understand the true glory of the master because they live in the cess-pit of humanity that is a pit of filth and degredation which is rotten to the core because they don't reckognise the Lor master because they are all filth and harlots and pimps and shining examples like Steven who is Bruce and Catwaesel who must be an instructor I bow my head to greater wisdom and revere the saints who lower themselves to come upon this page and fill us with their wisdom and understanding but now it's time for my medication... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:44:27 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: None To: John Hammond-Smyth Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: Lithium? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:41:50 (EDT)
From: CATWEASEL Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: Your unbelievable. Message: WANKER! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 02:03:21 (EDT)
From: kb Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Is 'I' a word?-(nt) Message: teyj Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 02:11:54 (EDT)
From: Conan the Librarian Email: None To: kb Subject: Is 'I' a word? Message: Yah, you silly pehrson, you. 'I' iz da first person singular pronoun. Of cahrse it iz a verd, you ignoramus. Heah I am, frohm anodder country, all pomped op, and even I know zat 'I' iz a verd. Vat you need iz a set of enzyklopedias mit a 2-volume dictionary. I have vun zet left..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 19, 1999 at 09:46:20 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: None To: kb Subject: Is 'I' a word?-(nt) Message: Hard to say !But all He's capable of! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 16, 1999 at 21:27:40 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: steven Subject: You have not understood me Message: I replied to your above post on the premie forum where you posted it. I will however, write it again here with the original post and a little more added in order that you might understand me better: My original post: It's always just out of reach, just around the corner and nobody ever gets there. It used to be constant meditation and merging with the word. Then later it was total surrender to Maharaji, the Lord. Nobody ever achieved it because there was nothing there to be achieved. It's all a myth. Anyone can meditate if they so desire. Experiences will vary from day to day and from person to person. If you meditate for any time without Maharaji's influence then you'll see it for what it is. And it has nothing to do with anything Maharaji is talking about and is more about your own personal headspace. There is something to be experienced from meditation just like there is something to be experienced from self hypnosis or therapy. But Maharaji has turned it into something which it is not. He has bastardized a common experience that anyone can have. (Read the alt.meditation newsgroup to see what I mean). My reply to your answer: The merging with the word etc is mentioned as the old aim of having knowledge back in the early seventies. Constant fully realised soul and all that. The sentence where I talk about meditation as being something that anyone can experience is not talking about realised souls or anything of that nature. I'm talking about the relaxation of mind and body which can come about from the practise of meditation. That's available for anyone who feels like trying it. Just as the experience of hypnosis, accupuncture etc is available to those who desire it. Meditation is not cosmic consciousness but rather a very simple feeling of stillness or whatever you want to call it. It is not mystical or something to be attained and anyone who talks about it in such terms has probably had no experience of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 17:31:23 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: I understaod you, David Message: Thanks. BTW, do you remember when Guru Margarine defined the word, 'understanding.' He said that we had to stand under [him] to get those drops of bliss, one by one. I wonder if that was his polite way of asking us for a you-know-what. The longer I'm away, the more I see all the triggers he has created in me. Songs, mere words, weather conditions, you name it, and good old Guru Margarine comes to mind. My psychiatrist has a picture of swans on his wall. Of course, I'm waiting for LOTU to appear any minute. And It Is Divine that we finally know the truth. Thanks for being here when I needed help the most. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 18, 1999 at 20:03:24 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Gail Subject: I understaod you, David Message: Glad that my feverish typing on my ancient computer was of help to you, Gail. That's very good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |