Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 53 | |
From: Jun 16, 1999 |
To: Jul 4, 1999 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:54:08 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I swear I didn't write this Message: Here's yet another 'Expression' worth ... well, it's poetry. You can't put a dollar value on it. It's poetry for God's sake! (Personally, I lvoe it though): Jan Buchalter New York City, US Poetry Sometimes I can feel you like a straight line of force, Opposite end of the poles... but the magnetic tension of attraction Creates a field that aligns the central core where maximum integration unites. The two as one where the influence of this momentous and breathtaking interaction Causes an alignment in which the magnitude of such a combination Becomes so far reaching that an actual alteration of the molecular structure Occurs which triggers the release of accelerated waves that ignites the inner fire Of realization and subsequently brings to bear the act of combustion. And at this juncture, explosive possibilities are unleashed. This collision of natural forces escalates. The phases of reaction to become immediately in the present. Once set in motion the sequential stages of continuity will ever roll on. The ability to catch the drift Of this jet stream will automatically place one in the center of such commotion. One must manifest an equivalent state of stillness to counterbalance The onrush of incoming interest. This protective barrier shields By neutralizing and assimilating all particles of the matter. Come in for a free demonstration and witness this power. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:01:23 (EDT)
From: Georgia Email: None To: Jim Subject: What's your point? Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:11:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Georgia Subject: What's your point? Message: If you don't know, honey, I ain't telling. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:19:32 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: I swear I didn't write this Message: Is this about sex? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:27:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Is that all you think about? Message: Cp, OF COURSE, it's about sex. Getting one's mind fucked. (Yuck yuck yuck!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:00:08 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Oh!- A Divine Blow Wave? Message: That Energy is like a lasagna recipe. As you read the ingredients you can almost smell it cooking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:42:28 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: cp Subject: Jan B. Message: egad. From devotee-gopi to 'creative thinker' like J Apter. This is the fruit of rawat. wrecked lives. Jan gave away her child (like others) to keep the kid from getting in the way of her lords demand for total dedication and devotion. Only HE mattered. Now it is some ridiculous fantasizing about her 'experience' and rawat's involvement. Trying to stave off admitting to wasteing her life, and her inherited fortune, she writes poems to no one explaining why it is somehow worth it and real. Sounds like drugs are helping her avoid her waiting mid life crisis. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:16:17 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: What the heck is this? Message: Jim: This part really gets me movin': 'Causes an alignment in which the magnitude of such a combination Becomes so far reaching that an actual alteration of the molecular structure Occurs which triggers the release of accelerated waves that ignites the inner fire Of realization and subsequently brings to bear the act of combustion' I really think we ought to present this information to our molecular biologists..... I'm sure they'd be interested in this discovery..... BWAH HA HA HA HA :-) Are you 'sure' you didn't make this up???? he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:42:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Here's a free thinker Message: Talk about PC premie wind-up toy (again, from ELK): Rajesh Patel Burnley, Lancs, UK Welcome to Manchester I am very, very thankful to Maharaji that he has accepted the invitation to come and speak at the event in Manchester. He is giving me the opportunity to express my deepest and heartfelt gratitude for the beautiful gift of Knowledge. He has made my life richer than I could possibly have ever imagined. This is a wonderful opportunity to see him right on my doorstep. The excitement in this part of the country is overwhelming and I don't know of anybody who is not excited. Everyone has greeted this news with longing in their hearts. Once again that promise of being at an event with Maharaji has filled our hearts with gratitude. It is, as his student, my privilege to help him in any which way I can. Like Charananand said yesterday in Leicester: 'No angel or another being invited you to this wonderful world of Knowledge. It was another human being that invited you to this wonderful possibility.' I cannot imagine my life without having met the person who told me about Maharaji, Knowledge and the opportunities. For me, it has been such a rich experience and I am so grateful to my teacher. Let me have gratitude in my heart and look deep to see how rich I have been since I first heard about this possibility of being in touch with that beauty within me. Welcome to Manchester, Maharaji. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:00:32 (EDT)
From: Georgia Email: None To: Jim Subject: So what? Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:51:02 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Here's a free thinker Message: God, indians are such ass kissers. I like the line 'possibility of being in touch with the beauty inside me'. What programming rawta inflicks. Of course, NO explaining what the beauty IS. Or what is it about human nature that is also there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:12:49 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: KB Subject: I love it, too! Message: KB: The line you picked is my absolute favorite: 'I like the line 'possibility of being in touch with the beauty inside me'.' I always thought, from what ALL the premies have said, that it wasn't a 'possibility' but an actual fact of life! What's this possibility crap? I think they shouldn't be allowed to post 'over there' either, they're messing M's trip up completely! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 18:54:45 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Mike Subject: I love it, too! Message: I know, eventually rawat will realize that ELK has to go. It is perfectly nuts and a great example of cultdom. I hope we can drag enough of the site into storage to be able to reset it up when they take it down. Remeber the first premie site? That was a more frank unedited premie site and some of the posts were great examples. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:39:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How 'bout a divine blow job? Message: you weenie. Here's my old ashram mate having a wet dream again on ELK: Brian Gaudet Edmonton, Canada Flood of joy Not so long ago I used to wish we had more of the beautiful music inspired by Maharaji on CD. Now we are flooded with them. I never even dreamed of having a live satellite feed right in my home. Now it is a reality. I also never dreamed about having an Internet connection like 'Enjoying Life'. Now we are flooded with several connections to plug into. Maharaji continues to change things, update modify, improve and surprise me each year. All I have to do is remember to 'KEEP IT SIMPLE' and allow myself to 'ENJOY'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:59:57 (EDT)
From: Georgia Email: None To: Jim Subject: How 'bout a divine blow job? Message: No thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 08:02:12 (EDT)
From: Ashram pal Email: None To: Jim Subject: How 'bout a divine blow job? Message: Hey Jim, If your ashram mate is still happily practising Knowledge it seems to suggest that not everyone in your ashram had the same experience as you? If so, it sounds like you created your own experience. Just a thought. AP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 14:29:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Ashram pal Subject: How 'bout a divine blow job? Message: If your ashram mate is still happily practising Knowledge it seems to suggest that not everyone in your ashram had the same experience as you? If so, it sounds like you created your own experience. Just a thought. Just a particularly uninsightful thought, you mean. What else you got? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:22:03 (EDT)
From: Georgia Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Nigeria Guru Libel? Message: Which guru maharaji is this referencing? ACTION ALERT Originator: --- (IFEX's partner in Nigeria) Date: 1998/12/18 Country: NIGERIA Person(s): Profession: Category: Legact Source: IFEX's partner in Nigeria Government to make libel a criminal offence (IFEX's partner in Nigeria/IFEX) - The Minister of Information, John Nwodo, has hinted of plans by the government to make libel a criminal offence in Nigeria. Addressing journalists in Calabar, Cross Rivers state, Nwodo said 'I am thinking of criminalising libel because of the fact that people libel their fellows and get away with it.' He cited a recent article in a soft-sell magazine which stated that he patronised an occultist/spiritualist named Guru Maharaji Ji so he could be appointed minister. 'I have never met a man called Guru in my life and I don't know where he stays,' Nwodo said. The minister argued that if falsehoods could be published against him despite his position, the ordinary Nigerian had no hope, especially as civil action could be tedious, long drawn and expensive. More information For reasons of safety, IFEX's partner in Nigeria is anonymous. Please contact the IFEX Clearing House for further information. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:38:22 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Georgia Subject: What's your point? Message: What are you saying here, Georgia? Luckily, the USA has the First Amendment right to freedom of speech, especially where someone, like M, is a public figure. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:45:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Georgia Subject: Nigeria Guru Libel? Message: This article refers to some guy in Nigeria who picked up the Maharaji cult like the cargo cult it really is. He copied Maharaji and set up his own little spiritual fiefdom. Comical if it weren't for the fact that we heard from some former followers who told us the whole trip was vile, cruel and ugly. But what's with this 'libel' shit? Hm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:58:39 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Subject: Libel suit? Message: Jim: Lawyer to lawyer, Gerogia's post sounds like vague legal intimidation to me. Perhaps not. We'll see if she explains, as I have asked. You studied law in California, just like me. Truth is a defense to libel and slander. We know that if M sued someone in his personal capacity, he could be deposed under penalty of perjury and have to produce any documents the defendant's lawyer requested about his finances in order to determine if M had in fact suffered any damages as a result of the supposedly offending comment. Such a lawsuit by Maharaji would open up a complete inquiry into him, corporations controlled by him, and the manner in which he is compensated. I do not think M is eager to engage in such litigation. Also, he is a public figure just like Rev. Jerry Falwell when Larry Flynt parodied him in Hustler, and as such has to put up with the verbal slings and arrows launched by the public. Care to comment further? Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 02:06:49 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Libel suit? Message: Maybe it just part of another Nigerian scam - They come in t ous all the time. Its their goverment de jour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:49:19 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: None To: Everyone Subject: JHB's Birthday, one day late Message: Dear John, I haven't 'seen' you here lately and I have been preoccupied and forgot to keep track of my clander and see that your birthday was yesterday. I hope you didn't 'stop by' yesterday and notice you didn't have a thread. I hope you had a good one and if you do see this that you can find it in your big heart to forgive my lapse of memory! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 22:39:46 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: JHB's Birthday, one day late Message: Happy birthday JHB, you've been a great addition to the site, I hope you had a great one! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 02:38:29 (EDT)
From: selene Email: None To: JHB Subject: JHB's Birthday Message: 2 days late! Hi and late wishes. er... whatever that means. Hope it was fun. selene, (How IS that musical coming along?) ooops Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 00:28:21 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: JHB Subject: JHB's Birthday, one day late Message: Happy Birthday JHB. Did you get any music for your birthday? If so, what? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 20:17:25 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: JHB's Birthday, one day late Message: Happy birthday, John (more than one day late, I'm sure)! Hope it was a good one, and best wishes for many happy returns (and increased sales of Latvian beer). I'm still trying to get that LOTU video to you, too. Thanks for being patient. Take care - Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:24:12 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Robyn Subject: JHB's Birthday, one day late Message: Thanks Robyn! I was very busy on my birthday and all weekend well away from my 'puter running a Latvian beer bar at a Latvian midsummer celebration. Thanks again, Love, John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:40:11 (EDT)
From: Comic Relief Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Two too funnies;-) Message: Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, First they oust Saint Patrick. Now this?. BTW – could the Robert mentioned be Rob? An Irish Times 'Bliss Article' January, 1999. Blarney Stone? An eclectic group of individuals: Smile on Down the List Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 12:48:28 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Comic Relief Subject: Not so- Two too funnies ;>( Message: Reading The 'Blarney Stone' link in Comic Relief's above post, I'm struck by how real M's success still is- even if it is a total hype which allows a trickle of fresh blood into the guru's clutches. I often think, so what, what ever people think about us or this forum. But truthfully, it's sad to see M able to continue. The sheer size of his corporate machinations, both profit and non-profit, couple with his persistance (as in will fade) make him a great story for the Irish Times. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:21:19 (EDT)
From: Fightin Irishr Email: None To: Comic Relief Subject: IRELAND - That's It Message: Forget me pots and pans tis time for my granny's ‘Shillelagh’( Blackthorn to be sure). God in Heaven above have ye all gone daft over there? Have the leprechauns addled yer brains? Aye, I know all about the rosy outlook for our beloved Emerald Isle’s economy now that ye are an informatics hub, but lads and lassies… he’ll take yer dear grannies watch iffen ye tern your back for a moment. Yer nothing more to him than a means to get in on yer economic ventures. Don'na go under his yoke. Aye, ye thought William of Orange was bad. Tis nothing compared to this shiester ye be followin. Aye, tis a banshee possesses his blackened hairt, tis a banshee indeed. Tis a sad, sad day when the Irish listen to a grifter tha canna even do a proper jig! Ave ye seen him try to? Tis like an orangutan attemptin ‘is best to swing from tree to tree’. He ha not noticed there are no trees. Quite comical indeed and a far cry from a jig! Aye, tis a call to all in County Wicklow… keep yer shillelaghs near, tis nothing but divilment here. Twas not our own Saint Patrick that drove out the snakes? And now, ye let in the serpent? Daft or teched indeed! Y’ev jest open the door to the banshees and imps of hell. Slam it lads! Lassies sound the alarm…. Aah and if nothin else remember he filched more than a watch from own of yer own. To be sure, he’ll steal the very smile out of yer Irish eyes… twould not be too long ere yer “Irish Eyes will be Weeping”. Take heed 'ere now as I 'ave the fey! FI Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:42:50 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Fightin Irishr Subject: IRELAND - That's It Message: Ah Mary, your post surely brought a smile to me! Hear, hear! Now you'll have to visit me next year in Cork so that we can straighten our relatives on the Emerald Isle out! xxxooo, Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:08:58 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Fighting Irish Subject: IRE for the Opressor Message: Saints be praised! Now what journal was that published in FI? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:49:05 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: None To: FI Subject: IRE for the Opressor Message: Thanks for the link. I especially enjoyed.. Maharaji, who resembles Buddha, except for his business suit, is now attracting a second generation of Irish followers. Teenage children of couples who got Knowledge more than 20 years ago, are now attending video events. 'I never pushed my children,' says one premie. 'One of my sons goes because he enjoys it.' One five-year-old son of a premie asked a nun to explain why she followed a dead master (Jesus), when she could follow a living master, Maharaji. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 12:58:56 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Comic Relief Subject: Wherz St Pat when u need him? Message: One guy interviewed said he attended 'events' for -2- years before convincing the instructor he was sheepish enough. Then he knows the rap well enough to just imply it is a quieting of the mind for an hour a day. No mention of WHY it took 2 years to qualify for this free no strings attached mind calming trick. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:38:53 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What ever happened to Judex? Message: Does anyone still talk to her? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 18:15:24 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: What ever happened to Judex? Message: Hi Gail, A number of us have tried to get in contact with Judith a while back after she stopped posting to see how she was getting along...but so far no word. I had a great dinner with her once last year in early September, but presume from the fact that since no-one has seemed to get a reply from her, that maybe she's just wanting to leave the whole premie/ex-premie experience behind her... Cheers, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 08:04:31 (EDT)
From: Spectator Email: None To: TD Subject: What ever happened to Judex? Message: I think I saw Judex at a video event in May. S Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 19:46:11 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Spectator Subject: What ever happened to Judex? Message: Thanks Spectator. Like a lot of ex-premies, I also have been back to the odd video event to see how it feels after having left....so maybe that's what she was doing. I'd be very surprised if she'd gone back to being a full-on premie..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 10:50:51 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: In this week's edition of Private Eye (UK satirical mag), the following article appears on their 'Street of Shame' page (a page devoted to the doings of the national press). > In a feature on 'loony cults' last year, the Daily Mail had particular sport with the Guru Maharaj Ji, the tubby teenager who first visited Britain in the early 70's and recruited thousands of disciples for his Divine Light Mission. 'Many followers gave all their spare money to the Divine light organisation so it could spread the message of peace,' the Mail recalled, 'refusing to believe they were merely subsidising their leader, who had a vast estate in California next door to Paul Getty, and a fleet of luxury cars.' Since then, it added, he had changed his name to Maharaji and become 'even richer and fatter'. Rather to the embarrassment of Associated Newspapers, it now transpires that the Mail's resident astrologer Jonathan Cainer has become a convert to this 'loony cult'. He and three other devotees recently created a website (www.enjoyinglife.org) 'for those who appreciate the teachings of Maharaji'. The Maharaji himself has described the arslikhan website as 'beautiful'. But then the guru has an eye for beatiful things: his newest toy is a $20m Lear 4 jet, the latest in a long series of private planes. Cainer says that he spent two years 'making appraisals' before committing himself to the guru. 'It took me two years of careful questioning before I felt ready to trust that he was on the level... It made me feel sweetly, safely, strongly at home.' Maharaji also knows a thing or two about being 'strongly at home': he lives in a 21-room Malibu mansion, complete with swimming pool, sauna, massage room - and a nine car garage to accommodate his Rolls-Royces. > I am going to email their letters page with the suggestion that Private Eye also prints the URL of ex-premie.org so readers can find out a little more about the Living Lard. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:06:12 (EDT)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Nigel Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: I phoned the Daily Mail last week and asked to speak to Monica Porter(the person that wrote the Daily Mail article). I got called back by one of Monica's assisitants who wanted to know what I wanted. I said that I wanted to know if Monica knew that Jonathan Cainer was a follower of Maharaji and if he knew about the article. The person said that Monica would call me back if she was interested in speaking to me..........as yet she didn't call......hmmm maybe someone called Private Eye?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 13:06:10 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Nice one Jethro Message: I've now told the Manchester Evening News about the Eye article and will contact Private Eye soon to tell them about the event in Manchester. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:29:13 (EDT)
From: CultbusterUK Email: None To: Jethro Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: hmmm maybe someone called Private Eye?? I suppose it sould have been that email I sent them with full details of the Monica article and the URLs. CultbusterUK Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:11:10 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Nigel Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: I must get a copy of Private Eye and see that! Readers here might like to continue with the Manchester Effect by emailing the Manchester Evening News or phoning them (email address and phone number on Manchester threads below) and informing them of the latest Private Eye article. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 13:04:54 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: Jonathan lost his wife a few years back, and is struggling to bring up four kids. Now you're trying to get him fired? Hope you're proud of yourselves. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 13:09:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Rob Subject: Not interested in Cainer Message: I'm not trying to get him fired. I have no interest in John Cainer. My interest is in Maharaji and him alone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 13:17:01 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Anyway, why the hell would Message: Cainer being a student of Maharaji get him fired? Come on now, it's only an embarrasment factor we're talking about here. Cainer is very famous in Britain and is making a lot of money from that fame so he is due for any interesting guru revelations. And why should Cainer worry about being a disciple of Maharaji? Why would he be ashamed of such a thing? Why keep it a secret? It's true that a secret is only newsworthy because it IS a secret. If I were Cainer I would be telling the world how great Maharaji is and not hiding my light under a bushel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 13:30:20 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Rob Subject: Quit the dramatics, Rob Message: Personally I don't believe newspapers should even employ astrologers - at least without a large-print warning that the horoscope column is 'for entertainment only'. But if Associated Newspapers wanted to sack JC for being a premie that would certainly reflect badly on their working practices, but even so, it would be the fact of his being a premie rather than anyone's revealing that fact. And it's not as if Jonathan is playing shrinking violet by setting-up the web-page in the first place, is it? Anyway, astrolgers are expected to believe in weird stuff. I'm sure the editors won't mind that much. (Sad as it is for those involved, JC's family tragedy is irrelevant to all of this.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:20:54 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Rob Subject: Quit the dramatics, Rob Message: I am sorry for Jonanthan Cainer's loss and I certainly don't think he should be fired for following M. I am not sorry that information about M is circulating in the media. Cainer would probably have some sort of discrimination lawsuit if he got fired because of this publicity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:27:57 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Quit the dramatics, Rob Message: On the grounds that you are not allowed to discriminate jobwise against people's religious beliefs, there is no way that Jonathan Cainer could be fired for being a premie. Anyway, he's too big a star to fire. Other newspapers would take him on in a jiffy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:34:04 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Quit the dramatics, Rob Message: Just the point I was trying to make. I did not know whether UK law protected him as it would here. Thanks. Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:35:30 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Marianne Subject: Clarification Message: I just re-read my 'quit the dramatics' posts, and just wanted to make it clear that however much I dislike what newspaper astrologers do for a living, I don't wish any harm towards Jonathan Cainer. I was just particularly annoyed by Rob's suggestion that anyone here was trying to get him sacked - or would be responsible if it happened (which is pretty damn unlikely, anyway). The guy is a public figure who gives his full name and occupation alongside his testimony on Enjoyinglife.org, and might even be said to be lending crediblity of a kind to the cult simply through his high profile and, some might think, cosmic 'expertise'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:10:42 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Clarification Message: I just re-read my 'quit the dramatics' posts, and just wanted to make it clear that however much I dislike what newspaper astrologers do for a living, I don't wish any harm towards Jonathan Cainer. You mean being that Jonathan's made an apparently wonderful living tricking people and has really gotten used to the lifestyle he should just be left alone? How about his, Nige? Jonathan gets to keep the money he's already made bilking people and we let bygones be bygones? (This is all pretending, I guess, that we really could threaten his livelihood). Maybe he can get together with his buddy and learn how to be a 'successful private investor'. I just have to think back to how they fucked with those fake entries over on ELK and how the cult's such a money maker over all for the cult leader. No, Jonathan put himself into the fray front and centre. He deserves all the natural consequences public awareness of his cult involvement might attract. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:02:34 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: I agree... Message: Hi Jim, I mean, I agree he deserves whatever might be coming to him anyway for the enjoyinglife cosmetic makeover (it's all a lila, - or at least in his birth chart - right? Good for the soul to work out that problematic karma...) But partly because of the recent forum weirdness and paranoia, I didn't want people like Rob to get away with suggesting that there was any kind of personal vendetta going on. The guy's a premie astrologer with problems (is there any other kind?) and I wouldn't mind his money, but I am not trying to get him sacked 'cos we've got a much bigger fish to fry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:30:29 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: Big fucking deal, Rob Message: Jonathan lost his wife a few years back, and is struggling to bring up four kids. Now you're trying to get him fired? Hope you're proud of yourselves. Personally, I'd love to get him fired. Want to help? Rob, to begin with you should ask yourself if astrology's an honest way to make a living. You might think so. I sure don't. Secondly, you might want to consider whether astrology's an honest way to make a living and really think about it this time. I think all astrologers should be fired. Doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be able to publish whatever they want. I just don't think major newspapers should employ them. It's misleading. Did you know, for example, that some people actually believe that shit? Yeah, really. No kidding. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:29:44 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Foul on Jim Message: Jim You re out of line. First, because you are crossing issues here. The subject of the thread is about the article and the poosible loss of a job. And some of the exs on the forum are astrologers, should they be fired from being exs?. Keep discussion clean. If you were arguing with a premei and they pulled that shit you would be in capitals all over the frame. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 17:40:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Throw the ref out! Message: Jim You re out of line. First, because you are crossing issues here. The subject of the thread is about the article and the poosible loss of a job. And some of the exs on the forum are astrologers, should they be fired from being exs?. Keep discussion clean. If you were arguing with a premei and they pulled that shit you would be in capitals all over the frame. Sorry cp, I thought the discussion was about embarrasing Cainer by advising his paper(s) that he's not just in a cult but that he's also a host of the cult's official welcome wagon. Then someone questioned whether or not it was right to do so if it may result in him losing his job. Then the issue was whether that's an honourable job to begin with. Did I miss something? Because if not, I still think astrology's a dirty way to make a living and would enjoy playing a part in ruining any astrologer's career. Okay, so that's my opinion. Where am I 'crossing lines' or messing up the discussion. I thought this was the discussion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 19:32:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jim Subject: The way I see it Message: Jonathan Cainer is more famous in Britain than Maharaji. Therefore, if we want to get Maharaji in the public eye then one way is to link a famous person (Cainer) with the forgotten guru (Maharaji). That way the guru is thrust into the limelight again. I think it's about time that we got phase three going and REALLY got propogation off the ground, don't you? Maharaji, we are here to help you, we are your loyal devotees and we're going to make sure that wherever you go and in every country you hold a program, that publicity will await you. Don't worry Maharaji. You won't need to spend any money on this direct propogation of you because we are focussed on YOU Maharaji and no expense shall be spared on propogating your glory, wherever you may go. Wherever you go, our faces are before you... This is just the start Maharaji but very soon we'll slip up a gear and do all your propogation for you. Now aren't we just the dust at your feet! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 19:50:08 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: TIME!!!!!!!!!! Message: 'then the issue was whether thats an honorable job to begin with' Jim-- OK whoever brought THAT slant on the issue was out of line. It has nothing to do with the discussion- whether he is a defense lawyer or ran a soup kitchen or is a lap dancer. The point is to get the focus on him for his involvemant with the cult, not get the focus on him cause of his astologer status. It just seemen that you are folding in your own bias against astrology into the discussion order to spice up the pressure. Also, you wont get him fired for bieng an Astrologer. Thats what hes paid to do . BTW is the point to get him fired? I didnt think so. Rob the Hobnobber brought that up. I see no reason to give justification to Robs sentimental, alarmist, deflecting distraction by even debating that angle. The word to describe it is 'irrelevant'. cp Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:35:52 (EDT)
From: CultBusterUK Email: None To: Rob Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: Jonathan lost his wife a few years back, and is struggling to bring up four kids. Now you're trying to get him fired? Hope you're proud of yourselves. First of all Rob, Cainer is quite wealthy from his Astrolgy columns, his premium rate phone lines, book sales and the occasional TV appearance, so struggling is hardly the word, especially with a full time nanny. His wife, Mel, was a lovely person and her death was very sad, but his major contributions to M's wealth deserves to be attacked on this forum. Also, it was Cainer himself who publicised his name on the ELK site enabling Private Eye to verify the story. CultBusterUK Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:42:49 (EDT)
From: CultbusterUK Email: None To: Rob Subject: GMJ / Cainer - in Private Eye Message: Cainer can't get fired cos he's not employed. His company has a contract with Associated Newspapers. If he hasn't broken the terms of that contract, then he is safe for now. Of course when the contract comes up for renewal, Associated Newspapers may take his Guru involvement into account. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:07:29 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Private Eye Prize Message: Nigel This is great. It shows exactly what needs to be done. Like clockwork, everywhere he goes (or doesnt go) the word needs to go into the press, into any rag that will print a story. the basic non-libelous facts. With glorifications if necessary. Made my day. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:45:29 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: cp Subject: All news is good news Message: Yeah, cp, it's good stuff, isn't it? It is funny how the cult has moved from 'shout it from the rooftops' to 'refer all newcomers with questions to Mr Booth Dyess' in less than 20 years (from recent guidelines for premies staging introductory video events). From now on, I reckon, all news about the man and his movement that is accessible to the outside world can only be counter-productive for the fraud and his life support system. Hmm, the oxygen of publicity.... breathe it in deeply now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 16:48:30 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where are your manners Jim? Message: Why did you just quietly leave the thread after you were critisized? Why cant you say something like' ok , i dont agree but my fellow ex(s) would like to jeep the fact that the guy is an a astrologer- as a non-essential fact in this discussion. I dont agree but for the sake of a clean arguement, I will comply and leave the thread to peter out on its own without my valuable and fun input.' How come you won't be Gracious when you are challenged? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 18:33:54 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Where are your manners Jim? Message: Why did you just quietly leave the thread after you were critisized? Sorry, I thought we'd said our pieces and that you weren't expecting anything further from me. Why cant you say something like' ok , i dont agree but my fellow ex(s) would like to jeep the fact that the guy is an a astrologer- as a non-essential fact in this discussion. I dont agree but for the sake of a clean arguement, I will comply and leave the thread to peter out on its own without my valuable and fun input.' How come you won't be Gracious when you are challenged? Okay, let's back it up a bit. You'd said: It has nothing to do with the discussion- whether he is a defense lawyer or ran a soup kitchen or is a lap dancer. The point is to get the focus on him for his involvemant with the cult, not get the focus on him cause of his astologer status. It just seemen that you are folding in your own bias against astrology into the discussion order to spice up the pressure. Also, you wont get him fired for bieng an Astrologer. Thats what hes paid to do . BTW is the point to get him fired? I didnt think so. Rob the Hobnobber brought that up. I see no reason to give justification to Robs sentimental, alarmist, deflecting distraction by even debating that angle. The word to describe it is 'irrelevant'. Again, my thoughts are pretty straightforward on this. Cainer's both an astrologer and host of ELK. Embarrassing him in public as a cult member could possibly threaten his livelihood. Great, I say. His livelihood's a scam anyway. Are you right that Rob's just trying to distract things a bit? Yeah, probably. But is Rob's point irrelevant? No. Sure the possible fallout for Cainer's a relevant concern. It's just that, for me, getting him fired would be a plus, not a minus. A bonus, if you will. And yeah, I think it's all relevant. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 19:47:10 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where are your manners Jim? Message: ok. But the 'his livlehood is a scam anyway' is silly. Anyone can say that about you, me, or Katie. Whens your birthday. I think if we keep the line of work out of it, then the next ELK host who is a volunteer doctor in the slums is still a fair target because we are not after people for the sake of their day jobs (unless they work for M.) Thanks for the reply butI still dont agree with you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 20:17:32 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Where are your manners Jim? Message: ok. But the 'his livlehood is a scam anyway' is silly. Anyone can say that about you, me, or Katie. Whens your birthday. I think if we keep the line of work out of it, then the next ELK host who is a volunteer doctor in the slums is still a fair target because we are not after people for the sake of their day jobs (unless they work for M.) Thanks for the reply butI still dont agree with you. Anyone can say anything, I guess, but that doesn't make them right. I say astrology's bogus, complete, 100 per cent bullshit. Now I'm not psychic or anything but I'm just starting to think that maybe, just maybe, you don't agree with me. Am I right? Am I hot? Getting warm at least? Hm, maybe I am psychic after all. Anyway, I wouldn't want to rob any premie of their livelihood just because they're premies. I would want to rob any astrologer of their livelihood even if they're not premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 00:28:51 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where are your manners Jim? Message: Ho boy. Then you better take that agenda to the Astrologer Irradication Web Site. Sheesh Jim you act like an Aires. It is irrelevant to the ORIGINAL discussion whether I am sympathetic ot astrology or not. Now dont go doing that fancy stuff where you quote the discussion in itaics. Read it yourself and detect where you wandered off to herd your own bias into the discussion. You just surprised me, because I have watched you dog a foe until they yell Uncle. You always keep the foe focused on the discussion and when the veer off you pull them back. If the premei rolls his eyes and gasps 'guru grace' you know that their mind is gone or at least some pertinent brain cells are missing. It is the same thing if I get on another ex premeis case because they are an Atheist. Sometimes I feel that you make generalizations that you apply to being an ex. Say you are an Atheist , but dont slam people because they say the experience God. Say you think astology is bogus, not that it IS. Until you make a study, you dont have anything to talk about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 00:44:04 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: I've got news for you Message: Say you think astology is bogus, not that it IS. Until you make a study, you dont have anything to talk about. I THINK the earth's round. Is that how I should say it? Good, I'll try to remember. Meanwhile, cp, there are studies that show astrologers are useless at determining personality characteristics via their charts. But beyond that, the whole notion of astrology is so really stupid, when you think about it, I wonder who needs studies? Hope this helps..... :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 01:46:42 (EDT)
From: chr, TD etc Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Real life get together Message: Hi everyone, A couple of us forum ex-premies are, at this very moment in time, together chatting about life ex-Maharaji and lots of other things. I guess what it brings home to me is how much more 'stuff' there is that we don't always hear about on the forum, lots of great anecdotes, darshan tales, horror stories, you name it. I feel extremely priveleged that I can speak in person to someone, namely chr who actually SAW THE GOLD TOILET! Definitely not a myth, that one!! I highly recommend catching up with forum exes in the flesh - makes you realise that you're actually dealing with real people, not just characters or names..... Anyway, I'll pass you over to chr.....TD. There's actually three of us here having a wonderful time tearing M's trip apart. We all have had good lives since leaving M and are enjoying the sense of freedom and ownership that comes of not having your mind under the shackles of a cult. It's good to talk to TD who received K in 95 (via video, would you believe!) I had left by the early 90s and its interesting to hear that nothing's really changed-just more subtle..I'll now hand over to our anonymous friend....chr Hi exes It's good to be here with the lovely TD and chr. One thing which I find sad about the Maharaji story is that it is often difficult as an ex to maintain friendships with people-with-knowledge. The differences in how exes and premies see life override the connections you might otherwise have. Getting together with other ex-premies is a treat because you have much to talk about, and not just the past history. We're taking much delight in talking of people we've known and loved, ex and current premies. And admiring chr's paintings. Life is good, here on the outside. Etc. Keep up the good work, exes. 'Bye chr, TD and etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 03:17:29 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: chr, TD etc Subject: Real life get together--I wish Message: I were there. I wanna meet all you guys, too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 04:17:31 (EDT)
From: chr Email: None To: Gail Subject: Real life get together--I wish Message: Hopefully it can happen one day, Gail. Its been very worthwhile and enjoyable. It would be great to organise more get togethers. It really brings it home that we are real people who had our lives infiltrated by M in a way that only someone who has been through it can fully understand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:04:08 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Nominations for good gurus? Message: Gregg, Helen, and Jerry have an interesting debate below about the legitimacy of guru/teachers. Any nominations for a legitimate guru? Any nominations for a legitimate teacher? I personally side with Jerry and say that gurudom is necessarily fraudulent. A guru is not just a teacher - he or she claims to be the conduit of divine grace able to bestow spiritual blessings on a devotee who subjugates before him or her. Big difference!! My own list of admired gurus has dwindled down to nobody, including old favorites like Paramahansa Yogananda and Paul Brunton. Even one of Rawat's own favorites, Kahlil Gibran, died a bitter alcoholic, according to a recent biography - another disillusionment! However, I still admire many teachers, including John Gray. I recently read his book 'How to get what you want and want what you have.' Yeah, the love tanks were kinda hokey, but I liked his teaching that humans do not fully mature until age 56. (I knew I wasn't done yet). And of course we all have personal teachers, like my Aunt Elizabeth. I think Depok Chopra is dangerously close to gurudom, but I personally find the Dalai Lama refreshingly free of fraud. Any disagreement? Marianne Williamson? (cringe) Any other nominations? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:15:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Way Subject: John Gray????? Message: Public domain hokum. New-age pablum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:37:02 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: Jim Subject: John Gray????? Message: Yeah, John Gray is not exactly a brilliant evolution theorist! BTW, Jim, are you 56 yet? Are all your love tanks full? But seriously - the question of whether we should acknowledge a power higher than rational man is another thread, so I won't engage you any further about that now - maybe later? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 13:40:56 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Way Subject: John Gray????? Message: Hi Way! My feeling about this is to each, his/her own. I have serious problems with John Gray. He is a big participant in Promise Keepers, which espouses male domination of women as one of its main tenets. Husband is king of the household, wife should submit to his authority, etc. While I am not opposed to men getting together and figuring out guy stuff and their relationship to society, I am adamantly opposed to the idea that women should submit to men. That's what created a lot of our problems to begin with. I am not 56 and the only love tanks I have are ones I share with my husband. Marianne Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 15:23:34 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: Marianne Subject: John Gray????? Message: Oh, good heavens! Thanks, Marianne, for your revelations! I've never read his Mars/Venus books, as that is out of my territory, and I only glanced at his latest book at the suggestion of a co-worker. So much for my nomination! Aargh! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 20:12:25 (EDT)
From: Gregg Email: None To: Way Subject: John Gray????? Message: This is a sobering thought. Good gurus? I ran down a whole list in my mind, and had a hard time coming up with a good one. the Dalai Lama is hard to argue with; I like him, but he doesn't exactly position himself as a guru. Helen mentioned below that one thing that bothered her about gurus is that they are mostly male (except perhaps the Margaret Thatcher of gurudom, Elizabeth Clare Prophet). that, too, has thrown a wet blanket on my ruminations. Not to mention the fact that leaders are by definition usually powermongers, and that is not exactly a benificent and spiritual kind of thing. Aside from the possibility a guru could be imperfect or worse and still transmit valid teachings (like, some say, the alcoholic Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche)...which would be the premie argument if they could admit to Lordly imperfections, this question evokes a thoroughly depressing landscape. What about Meher Baba? and some of the older gurus...Ramana Maharshi, Nityananda...or the recently dead Dilgo Khentse Rinpoche...the also dead Rudi...I can't think of any famous living ones...maybe some Zen teachers here and there... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 23:01:01 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gregg et al Subject: Sir D's Dad Message: I nominate Sir D's dad. I nominate the 'ordinary people'* in our lives who do good things, take care of their own obligations, try to live up to their own values, have a sense of who they are, and try to help others along the way. There are plenty of good people like that, who do the right thing even when noone's looking. * Not that your dad was ordinary Sir D, he was extraordinary, but he was not a 'guru', or pop psychologist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 23:16:31 (EDT)
From: 'ordinary people' Email: no To: Helen Subject: 'ordinary people' Message: YES 'ordinary people': who do the right thing even when no one's looking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:14:38 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Helen Subject: Sir D's Dad Message: Thanks Helen. Actually my Dad was a guru in the engineering world and had people coming from far and wide to pick his brains. Gears were his speciality and the gearbox in your car may well have a part in it designed by him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 09:57:14 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Sir D's Dad Message: Well, then your Dad is even more special to me. I just loved that post about him where you said he was a true King because of the way he took care of your mom. I conjured up a certain picture of him in my mind but now I see he was even more than my picture. You must be very proud to have had him as your Pa. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 00:20:58 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Promise keeper adventure Message: Hi Marianne, I went to an event and posted a couple posts about it. I will try to dig them up for you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 00:14:07 (EDT)
From: KB Email: None To: Way Subject: dali camel Message: Well, the D lama might seem free of stuff at a quick glance but he does support the notion that he is the latest reincarnation of the guy who occupies the final spot on the buddhist wheel of after death life. He is the guy who is THIS CLOSE to mergeing in the out of body wheel but he hangs on so he can reincarnate and walk among us again and again as a tibetian monk. He is in fact, by his spot on the wheel, the lord of the universe, a postion that his devotees are expected to believe. The directive he gave to a group of nun monks was to 'meditate on the emptyness'. Understand that once he leaves that last spot on the wheel he MERGES and no longer is self concious but is part of the 'essence' the 'oneness' and IT is NOT self aware. SO, the D lama is in fact the talking head of the 'oneness' and as close to god as you are going to get. This is exactly what his trip is about. Western packaging aside, like prem rawat is not the lord in the PR packageing but he is to the rank and file. The d lama is not free of debrie but is completely swallowed whole. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:41:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: KB Subject: Everyone is very ordinary. Message: The extraordinary thing is that each of us rises above that once in a while. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 14:22:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: None To: Gail Subject: Everyone is very ordinary. Message: Dear Gail, I love this! :) Thanks. 'The extraordinary thing is that each of us rises above that once in a while.' Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 16:15:49 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Way Subject: John Vanier Message: This guy has been working for L'Arche for a long time working with mentally disabled people. I have heard him speak on the radio and really enjoyed his true 'satsang.' He has recently written a best-selling book about humans and humanity, I think it's called Becoming Human. I mentioned it here before and some wise-cracker said what was he before he became human?.?......but lets face it there are humans and humanes. Love, Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 20:59:03 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Way Subject: Chopra is full of... Message: bullshit and himself. Why look to anyone else? Aren't you good enough? Let's face it - all the so-called masters find their recruits by making them feel that they aren't good enough already. Other contingent benefits of involvement in the belief system are accidental. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 15:51:43 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Way Subject: Sarlo's Guru Rating Service Message: Don't forget to check out Sarlo's Guru Rating Service. He's doesn't have all of 'em, but he's got a lot of Guru's in there. Here's a quote from Sarlo's page that comes from my favorite Guru, Ruchira Avatar Adi Da Samraj: I Am Not 'Within' you, but you Are In Me, and I Am Not a Mere 'Man' in the 'Middle' of Mankind, but All of Mankind Is Surrounded, and Pervaded, and Blessed By Me.' At least this is one Guru who doesn't pull his punches like some Gurus we know. And more info from Sarlo: American disciple of Muktananda. Other aliases include Bubba Free John, Dau Loloma, Da Love-Ananda, Da Avadhoota, Da Kalki, Da Avabhasa. Avatar pretensions. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 13:54:06 (EDT)
From: Way Email: None To: barney Subject: Sarlo's Guru Rating Service Message: Thanks, Barney, for the referal to Sarlo's site - the most up-to-date and inclusive I've ever seen. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 15:06:11 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Way Subject: Sarlo's: suggest a guru Message: Yes, it's pretty interesting. If you know of Gurus that he is not rating you can suggest them. I helped him find Bubba Free John who he had listed as missing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:06:52 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Rob, what DO YOU fear? Message: From a thread below, your answer to Orlando: Take a look at the 'Manchester' threads at the top. Would you like to contribute to the media ridicule of Maharaji? Use your brains, man. You have no idea who I am or why I am here, so please give a great deal of thought to what impact you are having before you reply. Thank you. What do you actually fear? Why would M be ridicule? My opinion is that M is ridicule because he's not honest, he's claiming things he never does and never took any responsibility. IF he'd take responsability in respect to everything he said, he would NEVER be ridicule. He'd get critics, like anybody else, that's all. Why doesn't he behave openly like he does in private? What needs to be protected/hidden around him, and in EV? What's the problem with critics???? What infuriates him? I'd like to know. Lots of 'important' persons get critics everyday, they deal with it. How does M deal with his critics? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:51:57 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Rob, what DO YOU fear? Message: The last master to make it big in the West, didn't fear ridicule nor did he try to silence his critics. He would openly discuss things with them. I am of course refering to Jesus Christ. It's a strange thing but nobody can ever prevent ridicule. When it comes it comes like a tide and is unstoppable. Look at Prince Charles, President Clinton or even Queen Elizabeth. They've all been ridiculed because they're all public figures who aren't perfect. I think ridicule goes with the terratory of being a big shot. Nobody who was a big shot ever escaped it, not even Jesus Christ. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 10:09:08 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Come to think of it Message: It's a guaranteed recipe for ridicule. i.e. Make out you're the Lord and then somehow lose it when you've amassed a number of devotees and pretend to them that you never said you were God. If Maharaji keeps in business I think the ridicule will follow him wherever he goes. But look; ridicule is better than some things. It could be worse. Ex-premies are not really nasty people and ridicule and scorn is as far most of us would go. Maharaji should thank his lucky stars that we're not the REALLY revengeful types. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 12:45:31 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Come to think of it Message: That's really something funny about m & k & EV: there is NO WAY to avoid critics and ridicule. Nobody ever succeeded, nobody ever will very likely, except in totalitarian systems. Now what M says is that it's all about love: why not embrace your critics then, Mr Rawat? Where is the problem? Don't you have love for them? Is there anybody you hate? Or is this merely a Christian idea of mine that a true teacher should love his critics? Will you ever show your universal love? I mean, in some practical way? What the hell do you fear? Or are you still waiting for the whole humanity to kiss your feet? Really? Or are you merely a chicken? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 13:06:32 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Enjoying/perpetrating abuse Message: I had that dream quite a few times, about 15 years ago, when I was very devoted. M was shouting at me, and I was rolling on the floor, totally blissed out. I thought he was loving me, and that's what our love relationship was (in my dream)! I guess this is what happens when you enjoy abuse, and I did for a very long time. Maybe thats what being a premie is all about: enjoying abuse. When you decide you want to stop this, that this is sick (I finally did), you're out. And M has a lot of accomplices to perpetrate abuse. Now that I think of it, this is one of the roles of EV's hierarchy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 14:01:33 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: What is M afraid of? Message: Sir Dave and J-M: If DLM and EV are legitimate organizations, and Maharaji is engaged in a legitimate pursuit, then why should he fear public scrutiny? Back in the bad old days of the early '70's, we used to actively seek out this kind of publicity. What might an examination of the history and present of DLM and EV show? That M, his family and DLM actively promoted the fact that he was God, greater than God, because he as Guru, revealed God. That after M was hit with a pie in Detroit, one of his mahatmas almost killed reporter Pat Halley with a hammer to the head. That the Millenium festival in Houston in November, 1973, which was touted as the beginning of total world peace (and the begiinning of total world domination by M), was a disaster. That M has received incredible financial benefits from his position: planes. posh residences, including one in Malibu that has gold toilets and other fixtures, personal servants worldwide, ... That in order to receive this gift of Knowledge, one must chase another human being around the planet and be publicly humiliated in order to prove one's 'readiness'. Finances are murky. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:37:40 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: We are flagellators, in a Message: manner of speaking. For some reason, we felt the need to punish ourselves, so we signed up to put our minds in a vice for a few decades. Finally, we did stop to take the thorn out of our shoe, eh? I had a very interesting conversation with a collegue yesterday. He was telling me about the cult (World Wide Church of God) that he and his wife were in for over 15 years. They left three years ago. We compared notes--the end result was the same. The one good thing about all of this is that I have been propelled much further in understanding than I ever would have, had I not joined a cult. My next step is to stop trying to save the world. You know--'What you're a Baptist? Oh, my gawd! What a cult! Did you know you are a victim of brainwashing, and so on.' Everyone has his/her own row to hoe. Some will suffer for their entire lifetime. We are lucky. We can enjoy life as it is, for what it is. That is amazing! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:01:16 (EDT)
From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Twitty Ditty Message: (Bom, bom, bom ... bom, bom, bom ... bom, bom, bom ... bom, bom, bom bommm..! Oh yes... I'm the great pretender (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) Pretending that I'm still the Lord (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) While poor wretches like you Subsidise all I do Writing cheques you can barely afford... Pretending that I'm still the Lord. Oh, yes... I'm the great big spender (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) Just keeping my plane off the ground (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) It's thanks to you fools, That my kids have good schools So keep sending those dollars and pounds... I hope that you guys stick around. (middle eight...) Well let the old world roll by me And if the I.R. come to call I hope and I pray When I'm found out one day I can blame someone else for it all... Oh yes... life is one big bender (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) Drink cognac from crystal so rare (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) No need to abstain Own up, or explain My premies just don't even care So pass me that bottle right there... Oh yes... I'm arraigned in splendour (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) With jewels of this earth, not the soul (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) Who cares if you think That my videos stink Or I look like an ugly great troll? They sell - that's my only true goal Oh no...you can't doubt my gender (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) I've sired the whole Singh Rawat brood (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) Did you know, on the sly, I've a mistress close by For when Mrs Prem ain't in the mood... (And that poet there's gonna get sued!) Oh yes... I'm the great pretender (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) But it's really so nice being adored (a-whoo-ooh, whoo-ooh) And I've found treat 'em mean Helps to keep the dupes keen. Who cares I'm a lazy, fat fraud..? Pretending that I'm still the Lord. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 10:41:36 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Encore...encore (nt) Message: GREAT, as usual! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:50:38 (EDT)
From: RT Email: omm To: Larkin is Harking Subject: Twitty Ditty - Pretty Witty Message: LOL love it! *Best of* vote. PS: Pre-tender: Introductory Video Donation Box :) RT more please... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 12:55:04 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: RT Subject: Twitty Ditty - Pretty Witty Message: Dear RT, I think you and Larkin could go work together and develop quite the amusing show for ex-premies and premies with senses of humor. I'd go that's for sure. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 18:28:41 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Twitty Ditty - Pretty Witty Message: I think you and Larkin could go work together and develop quite the amusing show for ex-premies and premies with senses of humor. I'd go that's for sure. I agree. Or I think there should be a compiled 'cyber' songbook of all of Larkin's and RT's toons that they've posted, and maybe some space for them on this website. In fact, if I was a rich anti-guru with my own recording studio, I might even ask them to come in and make a record of them all (and if they can't sing them, I'd ask Helen very nicely if she'd oblige). I then could distribute the compilation CD free outside every event - but the cover would most definitely be swan and mandala free! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 21:12:25 (EDT)
From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: TD Subject: Twitty Ditty - Pretty Witty Message: Kind of you to suggest this, Mrs TD, but trouble is, I don't keep them. (I don't know whether RT keeps his pomes). I was going to start my own web-page, but realised they must be scattered all over eighteen months of archives which I can't be arsed downloading. Any Larkin or RT fans oot there with nothing better to do actually made copies of this stuff? And Helen is definitely my choice of big-voiced songstress to deliver the goods, BTW. Luv yer lots. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 21:22:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Larkin Subject: Larkin's site Message: Hi sweetie, Didn't you have a site at some point? I was there or I dreamed I was there! Shit I was hoping to to sing a few of them around the campfire this summer! ;) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 21:42:06 (EDT)
From: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Robyn Subject: It's still there! Message: Hi, sweet birdie in the snow (reports of Willi's death might have been exaggerated by that scheming Norilko. We'll have to wait and see... Either way, he could use Gunther to channel from the other side...) I'll email you soon. I just checked, and the original Larkin page is still there. But it is twelve months old now and every vitriolic drunken rant I have done since is lost in the archives. But it's at: http://www.redcrow.demon.co.uk/barkin.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 09:07:29 (EDT)
From: RT Email: oh give me an omm... To: TD Subject: Twitty Ditty - Cup o Java? Message: Real audio software = no cds so people can play and send songs. The name of the song collection could be: 'Lila, by Da -reck and the Omminos'...no, make that 'Time for RT: Larkin Singhs!..how about 'The Scientific SatSongs of Prachar-win by Jim' - or Jeanne Michel's Favorite Hindus and Dont's' Title! We need a title! RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 12:52:18 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Larkin Subject: Twitty Ditty Message: Dearest Larkin, Well, I've missed you dear. I see you are still doing your thing and quite splendidly at that! :) Love, Robyn the red bird in the snow, Oh, that was the poor deceased Willy and not you, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 03:43:51 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Larking, you're the best! Message: I'm still singing it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 18:45:13 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: ROGER **BEST OF*** Message: Roger: How about this for the Best of the forum? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 05:06:59 (EDT)
From: X Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Glastonbury, it rings a bell. Message: Midsummer Night at Glastonbury Guru Maharaj Ji speaks at the Glastonbury Fair, June 21, 1971, England Satsang delivered by Guru Maharaj Ji at Glastonbury, England. June 21, 1971 I have come to tell you that Yoga, which is not yoga, that Yoga that generated your mind. In that Yoga you must give up your mind and you will obtain that place you are seeking. There is a Word. There is a Knowledge. There is a thing. I have got that Word. I have got that Knowledge, I have got that thing and I tell you that I can help all mankind---everyone of you. And if somebody comes to me I refuse him. Only if he has pure devotion for me, pure love for me and for this Knowledge. If one comes with true devotion and true love and asks for true Knowledge of the true self, which you are seeking through relative forms, I can give it to you spiritually. This Knowledge is within you, God is within you. And I can show you God if you want to see Him. I can show you your Farther, if you want to see Him and I can challenge, if you please, millions of people that I can show them that God which they are seeking in forms. If someone comes to me with pure devotion I can show them that thing but they must come with pure devotion. I have that Knowledge and I can give you that Knowledge. That is the only service I can do. My age is so little, my body is so small, I can't serve you as a police constable. The only service I can do is help you by giving that Perfect Knowledge which you are now seeking in materialism. All materialistic things are perishable. You too will perish one day. So how are you going to find God? You should know such a thing that will never perish and that is the Holy Word, the Holy Knowledge of God, and that is inside you. You only need to discover it. Isaac Newton only discovered the Law of Gravity, he didn’t invent it, did he? In the same way, the Knowledge is within you. I can reveal it. I cannot give it to you from somewhere else. There are many devotees who are saying I preach a religion. No. Not that. I am not a religious man. I am only saying that I am a spiritual man. I never believe religions divide men and divide men’s ideas into separate sects. But if the True God is equal for everyone like we say Bhagwan in Hindi, God in English, Budda in Urdu, God is the same thing and the Knowledge of Him is always the same. If the formula H2O is the formula for water everywhere it means that the flavor and taste of water is the same. So if God is equal, If God is one, If God is the same then the Knowledge must also be equal. And so it cannot be attained by going into different sects and religions. It is within you. You can commit your body to different sects and religions but Knowledge is not there. I will tell you who you are and what is the purpose of your coming into this world. If somebody comes to me I am sure I can give him the Knowledge and he will be satisfied. To go anywhere you need some money, some pounds. To go to the picture hall you need some money for tickets. The same anywhere. You need pounds. Now my pounds are love and devotion. I don’t like materialistic money---pounds, shillings, pence and dollars---because they are perishable. The only thing that is imperishable you already have within yourself and that is love and devotion for Knowledge. Give it to me. It’s alright. I am very sure that I can give you what you really seeking and what you are becoming tired of seeking in the materialistic forms of the changeable world. You can’t find spiritual Knowledge in materialistic things. Materialistic things can be attained by materialistic forms and spiritual things forms only. So please want the Holy Knowledge. ____________________Separator_________________________________ I, (X), went through a darshan line to see Sat Guru Maharaj Ji, this was in a time when a person that had not received Knowledge from Guru Maharaj Ji was not forbidden to do so, as I came closer to Guru Maharaj Ji, {and here to make a long story short, I will be brief}, I was sincere and did come with pure devotion and love toward my Guru Maharaj Ji, 'Knowledge', as I was about to go around the corner where I would then be able to see Guru Maharaj Ji , I remembered the above Glastonbury, England, Satsang, and I knew exactly what I wanted to do and say, {this next part may seem like I am making it up or whatever, but I am not}, as I moved ever closer to making the turn around the corner where I would be able to see and touch my Guru Maharaj Ji and yes say something to my Guru Maharaj Ji, I was somewhat trembling and my cheeks were still moist from my tears at realizing/believing that I would be able to see and ask my Guru Maharaj Ji for Knowledge, with my head up, my hands at my heart in a prayer like fashion I turned the corner, without an instant of time gone by, as if HE knew I was there, our eyes were locked, with about 20 –30 feet to go until I would be in front of HIM, our eyes NEVER unlocked, I finally stood in front of HIM our eyes still had not unlocked, with HIM looking straight into my eyes and I looking straight into HIS I then asked aloud too HIM, {from remembering the above SATSANG}, “Sat Guru Maharaj Ji may I receive thy Holly Knowledge of thy Holly Self”, then I placed my head on his feet, he was sitting in a raised chair with HIS feet on a pillow so that HIS feet were at about 3 feet above the floor level, after a few seconds of having my forehead on HIS feet I then without looking back at HIM moved off and away down the exit of the Darshan area. I tell this story because of the Glastonbury, England, Program coming up, it brought it back to me. This is only 1 of many incredible moments that I recall, BUT, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS, I DO NOT AT THIS TIME AND FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW BELIVE THAT GURU MAHARAJ JI IS OR ANYONE IS, [“THE ONE”!!!], the reason for such things, well we could speculate that it is because of some cosmic phenomenon as a result of the individuals sincere quest. I am not sure. I am sure that I am not now under any delusion that this guy Maharaji is doing as much good as he could for the people of the World, as a matter of fact he is and has done much harm in coming across as THE LORD GOD, he seems to try to change his façade as his current façade starts to crumble, but alas, he is such a BAD PERSON because I think he does what he does knowing what he does is such a lie, with out ever coming out and saying: I just want to make it very clear to everyone that I am just a person like all of you, I am not a unique GOD in human form anymore then anyone else, I do have some ideas on how I feel we should live life, but, I apologize to anyone who has interpreted me as a result of what I have said and or done, to possibly come across as someone who should have anyone bowing at my feet, {not even pranaming to indicate surrender and maybe or not have some karma taken out}, I am not GOD, I am not LORD, I am not SAT GURU, I am, but a person like any other, maybe I wish to try to be the best person in the world for the good in the world it may do, but, many people try do that as well, I know I have really screwed with the heads and hearts of many wonderful people, I am sorry, I apologize. I do not think he is going to say this, not only what a shame, but to have him continue his hurtful crap is not acceptable. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 07:03:02 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: X Subject: Glastonbury, it rings a bell. Message: Dear X, 'I think he does what he does knowing what he does is such a lie, with out ever coming out and saying: I just want to make it very clear to everyone that I am just a person like all of you, I am not a unique GOD in human form anymore then anyone else, I do have some ideas on how I feel we should live life, but, I apologize to anyone who has interpreted me as a result of what I have said and or done, to possibly come across as someone who should have anyone bowing at my feet, {not even pranaming to indicate surrender and maybe or not have some karma taken out}, I am not GOD, I am not LORD, I am not SAT GURU, I am, but a person like any other, maybe I wish to try to be the best person in the world for the good in the world it may do, but, many people try do that as well, I know I have really screwed with the heads and hearts of many wonderful people, I am sorry, I apologize. I do not think he is going to say this, not only what a shame, but to have him continue his hurtful crap is not acceptable.' I wonder how long you have been out of the cult and I just have to point out 2 things which I am sure other will and I almost left it for them but didn't. In reply to the part of your statement about M's possible apology, there was not interpreting to be done, he just flat out said he was god. There are a gazillian(sp) quotes to that affect. My other comment is that is that I do not see that he has tried to '...be the best person i the world for the good in the world it may do...' I think that may or may not have been true when he was a young child, thinking what his life would be like and all the good he could do but that time has long since past on. I would go so far as to say that he has done harm, to the people who became devoted to him and to those that were and would have been help by those devoted to him if he hadn't told them that service meant ONLY service to him!!! I am glad you are out of the cult X, especially since you had some strong personal connection experiences to M. I wonder if maybe YOU have a strong presence and that YOU drew M to you, that he noticed you because of your will or personal power and that he couldn't not pick up on your vibe. Just a thought. It isn't all about him. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 07:53:03 (EDT)
From: X Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Glastonbury, it rings a bell. Message: Thank you............. For your comments............ ---------------------------------------------- Interesting SPIN as put out at this time from Enslave/joy............ {{{From a Site on the net.}}} His first public event On Saturday, 19 June, Maharaji gave his first public event at Conway Hall in Holborn (we hadn't even thought that an afternoon programme plus jetlag might not be ideal conditions for him.) He had already announced that he was going to America 'and all those places, to bestow Knowledge.' His mother didn't seem to know about this: she was already phoning to make sure he had confirmed his return flight to India. A team of noisy TV reporters invaded the house, making heavy jokes about 'the boy guru' and having to leave their shoes outside his bedroom door. They absolutely wanted to film him as a normal 13-year-old and at the same time present him as a phenomenon. So after some discussion he put on some headphones to listen to a tape while looking at a big book about astronomy. Then they asked him silly questions: 'Do you like football and cricket?' They started out with an attitude of cynical derision, but gradually their attitude changed - so naturally that I don't think they were even aware of it. They ended up sitting around Maharaji, listening respectfully to him speak about Knowledge. Maharaji attended a lot of events in June, and people came to the house for information and Knowledge sessions in the basement. There was to be a big pop festival in Glastonbury at the time of the Summer solstice, and lots of predictions had been made about what would happen. People were there, preparing and hoping Maharaji would come. Maybe he knew he would go, but in the residence all day he kept saying: 'Yes, I'll go. No. I won't .' And finally he left at the last minute to drive fast to Glastonbury, arriving in a muddy field amid loud rock music and wet bedraggled people. However, he gave a beautiful introduction to Knowledge then drove back to London leaving the next day for Germany where preparations for a programme were underway. He gave programmes in Indian temples, church halls and other places in London. We kept getting phone calls from India, people were pleading for him to return for a festival which was probably important for hundreds of thousands of Indians. But Maharaji stayed. He did a programme on 8 July in Leicester for the Indians. I had been asking him to do a programme for all of us, saying: 'If you don't teach us, who can?' Everyone really wanted this event to happen, but we felt a little insignificant compared with the huge, intense pull from India. He went out and a little later I received a phone call from someone with a very thick Indian accent asking if 'Bal Yogi Ji' (the Indian name for Maharaji) would be doing a programme in London. Very crossly I said: 'I don't know, he won't tell us.' Peals of laughter came down the phone, and the voice said: 'Yes, I will be doing an event in London.' ______________------------------______________________ 'Bal Yogi Ji' (the Indian name for Maharaji) ???????? Bal Yogi Ji, Hmmmm, translation? = ?????? >>. Maharaji ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 09:13:16 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: X Subject: Glastonbury, it rings a bell. Message: Hi X, I think, depending on how responsive a person is to M's message, as well as the energy that surrounds him, particularly that which is coming from his devotees, that's what determines the depth of emotion you feel in his presense. I was cynical. I liked the message, that there was something beautiful inside of me that would fulfill me and give me understanding, but I wasn't so sure that devotion to M was the key to discovering that. At least, when I heard M (and premies I trusted, especially them) say there was such a thing, I didn't automatically feel that was true. It gave me hope, but it didn't replace the misery I was feeling with joy. I think for some people, it did. And for people who were happy, I think M just confirmed what they were already feeling, that life is a beautiful thing. But one thing I don't think is true is that there is this place within waiting to be discovered, and practicing Knowledge is the key. It's all about how you respond to Maharaji, what he says, how he looks, how he presents himself, the energy around him, etc. that makes the difference. Take all of those externals away, and I think the 'experience' disappears as well. I think this is pretty obvious. So many externals move us, songs, poems, beautiful people, smiling faces, country air, etc. Why should it be any different in Maharaji's world? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 10:00:10 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: X Subject: My favourite line... Message: Now my pounds are love and devotion. I don’t like materialistic money---pounds, shillings, pence and dollars---because they are perishable. Jeez, think of the misery we must have caused Prem by donating money. It is really humbling to discover he never wanted the stuff in the first place. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 23:04:54 (EDT)
From: forum freinds Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Bobby, how are you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 23:50:02 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Bobby Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Dear Bobby, I, too, hope you are doing well. I also hope to see you soon, if possible! Lots of love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 00:03:22 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Dear folks, Once again, sorry to speak on Bobby's behalf but he is away and although still dealing with some side effects the worst of them are less sever and farther apart. Well the worst of them as I see it. I guess they all pretty much suck. He got excellent news from the doctors and they are very pleased. He will have an MRI in a month to be sure about his progress. He is with a good old friend and won't be back for a bit, if you post again in a couple weeks he may see it though. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 29, 1999 at 17:42:15 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Bobby's Thread Message: Hi folks,Just happened to see this thread. Haven't been to the forum in a week.I'm in Arkansas with some old friends being treated with Chinese medicine and acupuncture. Really wonderful to be here. I'll be back home in about a week.I just checked out the sitaram thread. I met Sitaram and Mouni Baba in India in 71 and am somewhat familiar with the story, though not familiar to the extent that Sitaram himself recounts. It's really fascinating to me.Healing can sometimes take a long time.Love,Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 16:35:51 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Webmaster Subject: A question. Message: Hi, Has the Forum got smaller. The threads seem to be disappearing fast. Or maybe I'm just losing it. Anth the Senile Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 17:01:13 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: AJW Subject: A question. Message: Hi Anth - The threads disappear faster when people post more often. The Active Index hold approximately 400 posts, depending on what is in the Inactive Index, which holds approximately 800 posts. The remainder (if over 1200 posts) stays in the Active Index until we can archive. We attempt to archive when the Inactive Index is full (at 800), but this doesn't always happen. As far as you 'losing it' - no comment :). Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 19:44:10 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Katie Subject: A question. Message: Thanks Katie Anth the Off the Glastonbury in the Morning to Relive His Adolescence One More Time. (Stage 134 of Losing It) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 21:52:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: AJW Subject: JCF and lasagna Message: Dear Anth, What is Glastonbury ol' chap! :) I got the CD of Jackson C. Frank yesterday and it is wonderful! I loved it from the first. Thank you so much. I already have 2 people I will copy it for and send it to. Do you like lots of different types of music? So I can send you something in return? Did you get any Laura Nyro and it seems you were going to get someone else too, can't remember though. Watch that adolecent inside, they can be brats!!!! :) I am cooking for the first time in ages, more than a year! I hope it will be a good break from the reading and research that has occupied my day today. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:50:36 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: JCF and lasagna Message: Hi Robyn, I got Laura Nyro, I'm still searching for the Pete Seeger compilation JW recommended. You said, 'I'm cooking for the first time in a year'. Have you been living on sandwiches since last summer? Yes I like lots of different music. I play a bit too. I can't think of anything in particular, what about a compilation of obscure 60s protest music? Adios Amigo, Anth the Public Pen Pal Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 07:11:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: AJW Subject: JCF and lasagna Message: Dear Anth, Your weekend sounds wonderful, we've only 5 hours to get to that stone and here I am wasting time writing to you! :) We eat, frozen veggie burgers, frozen raviolli, frozen perogies, spaghetti, potatoes and veggies, pasta and veggies, yogurt.... I just don't think of that as cooking. I use to be quite the cook really but I've burnt out on it! Love, Robyn, who use to be such a good house mother and cook, I used to bake and cook without a cookbook and everyone said it was like living in a resturant and to whom boiling water seems a chore now! :) (I am to wordy to do this effectively) ;) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 21:57:01 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: AJW Subject: Glastonbury Message: Hi Anth - If you're still awake, what is Glastonbury exactly? I have heard a lot of premie stories about Maharaji appearing there in the middle of a music festival (?). Is Glastonbury a prehistoric site like Stonehenge? I have seen pictures of a stage there shaped like a pyramid. Take care, Katie who is not re-living her adolescence yet and hopes never to do so! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:15:37 (EDT)
From: Oberon Email: None To: Anthony Subject: Glastonbury Message: M went to Glastonbury didn't he and gave satsang there. Are you going to relive all that truth, pure consciousness and bliss old chap? Oberon Forget the nostalgia - get in tune with today, Anth - Oh, Nostalgic One. Seriously - have fun in Glastonbury! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 05:00:16 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Oberon Subject: Glastonbury Message: But Oberon, Glastonbury is today. Anth the Being Here Now (and Was There Then only can't remember too much) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 04:58:35 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Katie Subject: Glastonbury Message: Hi Kate, Glastonbury is a town in Somerset. It has a famous ruined Abbey and Glastonbury Tor, which is a mound with a tiny old church on the top. It's been a hippy trippy mystical centre for ages. There was a big free festival there in 1970, and the tradition has continued, although now it's very commercial. Maharaji gave a short talk there in 1970 and gathered up lots of spaced out hippies. It's the showcase European festival of the Arts. There are about 12 stages, 5 theatres, 2 cinemas, so many brilliant bands you'll miss most of your favorites, and about 100,000 stoned people soaking up the sun (or rain) in the British countryside. If you hop on Concorde you might make it for tomorrow night. I'll meet you at the stone circle (there's one in the festival grounds) at around 5. I'll be wearing beads, a sombrero, various magic and mystical emblems, carrying a shaman stick, I'll have a dog on a piece of string, and will probably have lost my glasses by then, so I'll be squinting. Anth the Hope I can find my way home on Monday. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 07:51:09 (EDT)
From: Earthling Email: None To: AJW Subject: Glastonbury Message: Anth, If maharaji spoke at the 1970 festival then he must be God after all! He flew into the UK for the first time 17 June 91. Earthling Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 19:21:26 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Earthling Subject: Glastonbury Message: Hi Earthling, You're quite right, I got muddled between the first Glastonbury festival at Shepton Mallet, in 1970, and the first one at the present site, in 71, where Maharaji gave a short talk, (printed above). I heard Maharaji talk that day. I was tripping and thought he was an alien, come to take us off in a spaceship. Well, that's what my friend Tom told me, and I beleived him. Adios Amigo, Anth the Hippy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 00:10:05 (EDT)
From: Stage 2 Email: None To: AJW Subject: A question. Message: 'If this Knowledge gives you peace, well and good, go ahead. If not, leave it and try to find another way.' I am out of here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 16:18:04 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Manchester press Message: Everyone: An ex has alerted the Manchester press to our web site -- see below. Someone from that paper may visit the site in the near future. What information do you believe they should know? What websites should they visit? What could they focus their press coverage upon? How about it, all you writers? What's the hook? Press folk: Please read the Journeys section of this web site. It will give you a long term, multi faceted perspective of Maharaji and the cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 20:01:30 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Manchester press; phone number Message: If you want to phone the Manchester Evening News newspaper office, their phone number is: 0161 832 7200 from within the UK. 44 161 832 7200 from outside the UK. Please remember that the time in Manchester is five hours ahead of East Coast time in America. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 14:18:33 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Everyone Subject: Site e-mail problems Message: Hi everyone - Just to let y'all know: We discovered yesterday that Brian had misconfigured some of the site e-mail addresses on Monday evening. Anyway, any responses to forms on the site (feedback, Journeys, White Pages) and mail to webmaster@ex-premie.org probably bounced. Also, Barney's ex-premie.org address was not working (sorry, Barney!), and any mail to barney@ex-premie.org likely bounced as well. Brian's fixed all these problems, so if you had a problem contacting the site, or contacting Barney, please try again now. Thanks, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 11:05:56 (EDT)
From: American ex Email: None To: British exes Subject: Manchester Hoteliers Message: Enjoyinglife is bragging about how happy the hotels in Manchester are for the business they are getting from Elan Vital, particularly the hotels closest to the program site. Perhaps a few of you exes could email those hotel managers and let them know who and what Elan Vital is by informing them of the ex-premie website and Maharaji's website. The venue, Manchester Evening News Arena at Victoria Station, and the local newspaper, might also like to know about the ex-premie site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 13:36:37 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: American ex Subject: Email Manchester press here Message: One of the best local newspapers to inform about Maharaji's visit is the 'Manchester Evening News' itself. If anyone would like to email this newspaper, their email address is: newsdesk@mcr-evening-news.co.uk but if you want, you can email them now direct, from this link. I have emailed them to tell them that the boy god is back in town but I'm sure they will be happy to get as many emails and perspectives as possible on this one. This newspaper is, by the way, the main newspaper for the whole of the Manchester area and is read by millions of people all over the north of England. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 13:52:01 (EDT)
From: An ex-premie Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Email Manchester press here Message: I followed your suggestion and sent them to this site and the links we mention. Good work there, Sir Dave. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 14:02:28 (EDT)
From: American Ex Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Email Manchester press here Message: Thanks, Sir. Another thought: somewhere in the Forum archives somebody posted an article by a Brisbane newspaper about Maharaji's recent visit to Amaroo in which his past 'glory' was discussed and both premies and exes were quoted, along with the ex-premie site address, which apparently infuriated the Master. If a copy of this article were sent to the Manchester paper, they may be inspired to write one of their own. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 17:42:10 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: American Ex Subject: Infuriating the Master Message: I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one actually feeling blissed out knowing that I did it very likely! Where is this coming from? Dr Reich? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 17:49:40 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Infuriating the Master Message: JM: Ahhhhh...that bliss, that joy, that contentment, that place. It's all yours, if only you can 'infuriate the master.' We've found the one true path. he he he :-) I 'feel' liberation coming on...... (I must REALLY be pissin' him off!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 23:17:34 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: Practise Message: The True Path ....to salvation. Why did it take so long for me to understand? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:19:11 (EDT)
From: Oberon Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Practise Message: I don't know. I guess you got caught up in 'the externals!' Oberon Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 11:24:51 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Oberon Subject: Typical nonsense, Oberon Message: I don't know. I guess you got caught up in 'the externals!' Did you ever line up to kiss the Hamster's feet? How long? How far did you travel for the 'priviledge'? How many times? It goes on. You're an asshole. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 10:54:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Practise Message: JM: At least when god is pissed at you, his full attention is on YOU! he he he ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 13:05:05 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: Enjoying/perpetrating abuse Message: I had that dream quite a few times, about 15 years ago, when I was very devoted. M was shouting at me, and I was rolling on the floor, totally blissed out. I thought he was loving me, and that's what our love relationship was (in my dream)! I guess this is what happens when you enjoy abuse, and I did for a very long time. Maybe thats what being a premie is all about: enjoying abuse. When you decide you want to stop this, that this is sick (I finally did), you're out. And M has a lot of accomplices to perpetrate abuse. Now that I think of it, this is one of the roles of EV's hierarchy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 13:31:13 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Enjoying/perpetrating abuse Message: JM: You are so right. Isn't it amazing how low our collecive self-esteem must have been to permit this to occur and actually 'encourage' it! I venture to say that if anyone was to attempt this kind of abuse on us, now, they would receive a quick slap to the jaw..... he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 10:50:04 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Sad case of paranoia Message: Now I won't name names and will respect confidences etc but I find it sad that our dear old friend, Glen Whittaker feels so threatened by us exes that he cannot communicate freely with some of his old friends who want to talk to him (who are exes). Is this how things end? In paranoia and distrust? Perhaps we exes are to blame for much of it but that's only because we speak our minds and don't toe the party line. And it is clear that being a part of Maharaji's world DOES engender mistrust of those people who have left it. What happened to the peace and love ethic which we all felt at the beginning? I was there Glen and you often had me in hysterics with your satsangs. But also I felt that you had a depth and understanding which I admired. I really felt then that the whole trip was about love and nothing else. But love doesn't turn itself off through mistrust or fear and it always accepts people for what they are. This is no critisism of anyone but rather just me reflecting upon how much things have changed since the beginning. Can the old staunch premies really understand why the rest have become exes? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 12:34:53 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Sad case of paranoia Message: Dear Sir Dave, Where does this thread come from? Why do you suppose Glen doesn't talk to exes. Actually he does/did. Is there something I don't know? Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 13:04:43 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Liz Subject: Sad case of paranoia Message: There is no thread here about this. Just something which someone who knew Glen well told me. Person X told me that Glen was hesitant about communicating with X because they had posted on this forum. Now I understand Glen's reticence but it is a sad reflection of how things have become. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 13:34:28 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Don't talk to ex's? Message: Sir Dave: Do I understand this correctly --- now some premies feel that not only are they banned from talking on the Forum but it is dicey to even talk to ex's who post here???? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 13:44:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Don't talk to ex's? Message: Got it in one. The reason being that premies are afraid of anything they say being published on this web site. A far cry from the days of SHOUT IT ON THE STREETS! WHY BE SHY? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 20:04:04 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Marianne Subject: That explains it. Message: Hi Marianne, that explains why my wife hasn't been talking to me all day. Anth the Doghouse Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 21:02:38 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: AJW Subject: That explains it. Message: Anth: I just re-read your journey. It was incredible. Thanks for taking the time to do it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:21:49 (EDT)
From: Oberon Email: None To: Anth Subject: That explains it. Message: You must be in the dog-house quite a bit. How does she manage to live you down? She must be experiencing detachment. Oberon Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 05:02:14 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Oberon Subject: That explains it. Message: Hello again Oberon, I think she's got some guru and become a realised soul. She keeps inviting me to videos. What do you think Oberon, should I go? Who knows, there might be something in it. Anth the Sinfully Cynical Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 07:35:02 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: Everyone Subject: LOTU revisited Message: I sat down last night to watch LOTU once more before I send it off to the other side of Oz. I really think it would be good if we could get more copies of this tape so that aspirants and any that are likely to come into contact with M can see the history of where he has come from and what he has said and done. I particularly liked seeing all of his folks again. BBJ saying he is nothing, just a follower of M, now of course he is the big M. The interviewer asjking his Mom if he'd ever been naughty as a child and Mata ji saying that Guru Maharaji could never do anything to hurt his mother. Ha Ha Ha ! Bhole Ji what a sad dipshit. The Lord of Music couldn't even keep time with the beat. The ever so subtle signs around M when he is on stage saying GOD. Whatever became of Rene Davis, a comment or two from him would be welcome. Abbie Hoffman comes across well now, 'you buy into the vision and it becomes your reality'. M being interviewed by reporters reminded me of Nixon. The best guy with the most credibility in the whole program is the guy who threw the custard pie. He was so sorted on what he was doing and why, and he had some sense of humanity, unlike the security premie who assured us he would have slit the guys throat without a thought. Premies getting off on flowers that M has touched like they were high grade acid. Everyone kissing M's tootsies and all the premies trying to prostrate themselves at every member of the M family. Aspirants need to see all this weird shit and see that M was there and condoned it all. He bought into it while it suited him.Now he wont say dick about the past because he knows that the game would be up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 09:15:41 (EDT)
From: TD Email: thedefector@hotmail.com To: Bill Cooper Subject: I'd like to see a copy.... Message: Hey Bill, if there's a PAL version of LOTU floating around Oz, any chance you could let me know how I might get hold of a copy? If possible, could you e-mail me..... Thanks in anticipation, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999 at 02:34:36 (EDT)
From: Oberon Email: None To: TD Subject: Oz Message: Thanks for the e-mail. Do you live in Oz? Do you remember David Lovejoy? I know it's a big place but he was sent by M to Oz to spread the word. Oberon Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 11:06:38 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: Oberon Subject: Oz Message: Sorry to disappoint Oberon but I'm a pom. My memories are of Leicester Ashram and the 'Palace of Peace' and of course traipsing around the planet after the Lardshit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 1999 at 00:59:35 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Bill Cooper Subject: Palace of Peace Message: I met my husband at a train station on the way to The Palace of Peace. I used to go there two or three times a week. It was only on the way there that I got to meet non-cult members. Love Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 04:36:17 (EDT)
From: X Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MUST READ!!! MUST READ!!! Message: Please, read and follow Thread below called: How to Post on Maharaji's Site THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY VERY VERY INTERESTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 16:03:05 (EDT)
From: ET Email: None To: X Subject: MUST READ!!! MUST READ!!! Message: I think Third Voice posts are a gas! There may be a crackdown soon, but it will have been fun while it lasted. There are hidden Third Voice posts on this very Forum! To read them and post your own, go to www.thirdvoice.com and download the short add-on to Microsoft's browser IE4. Then you can put little post-it notes on any Web site, including Maharaji's, that can be seen by anyone with the same software. It is so cool! Don't get paranoid about China. This is a legit company. I can't wait for the IPO. This is growing exponentially! -ET Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 18:04:03 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: ET Subject: MUST READ!!! MUST READ!!! Message: For personal reasons, I refuse to use IE (I tried it once and it screwed up my whole e-mail system and browser!), so if you could post some of the 'Third Voice' notes on this forum, that would be great. (As long as they are NOT personal attacks - sheesh!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 24, 1999 at 19:41:21 (EDT)
From: X Email: None To: Katie Subject: MUST READ!!! MUST READ!!! Message: For personal reasons, I refuse to use IE (I tried it once and it screwed up my whole e-mail system and browser!), so if you could post some of the 'Third Voice' notes on this forum, that would be great. (As long as they are NOT personal attacks - sheesh!) Good idea! - - - - - - {FYI} it should be ready soon for more then just IE. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |