Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 3
From: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 To: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 Page: 2 Of: 5


Jim -:- The current, sick cult philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:54:25 (EDT)
__ red -:- i love you jim your so nasty nt -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 03:34:05 (EDT)
__ CD -:- Respect for existence -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:07:19 (EDT)
__ __ DVD -:- Re: Respect for existence -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 11:44:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ CD -:- Respect the gift -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 05:21:08 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Oh, is it finally discussion time, Chris? -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:34:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ CD -:- A presentation of viewpoints -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 05:26:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- A trite subject line -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:41:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Go to the putdown corner -:- Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:37:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, Liz, I keep forgetting -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:11:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Go to the putdown corner -:- Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:40:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- May I join in? -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 12:05:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're a little late, Jer -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:46:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Jerrys got an opinion too! -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 05:13:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Easy does it, eh? -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:28:09 (EDT)
__ nigel -:- Beam me up, potty... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 21:50:57 (EDT)
__ Phreak -:- You want cults? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:43:35 (EDT)
__ __ Phreak -:- You want cults? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:49:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ Phreak -:- Another useful site -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 18:00:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger E. Drek -:- House of Maharaji Drek has links -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:58:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Phreak -:- But who's linking to US??? -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 14:12:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ CdM -:- Re: Another useful site -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 19:42:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Phreak -:- ouch charlie -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 14:25:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ LdM -:- Re: grouch charlie -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:05:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CdM -:- Re: ouch charlie -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 14:31:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Phreak -:- No problemo -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 18:58:43 (EDT)
__ Shp is off the bleachers in your face -:- The ex-pot call the kettle black -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:58:22 (EDT)
__ __ phat phreak -:- Empty words -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:08:44 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- You're too stupid for words -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:01:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp really wanting to get back to the bleachers, but... -:- Response to Jim -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:21:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Tag Team Abner Louima -:- Shp, can't leave, huh? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:52:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Bleacher bound -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:15:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Abner Louima -:- Bondage under the Bleachers -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:46:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Bondage under the Bleachers -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:49:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abner -:- Sympathy will get the martyr everywhere -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:25:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- The age of martyrs is over -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:27:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- RE:Lawyers -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:27:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp halfway up the bleachers -:- Re: RE:Lawyers -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:31:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I'm so embarrassed for you -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:36:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Embarrassed for you too, Cat -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:28:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Embarrassed for you too, Cat -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 02:04:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Philip Michael Thomas -:- Come on, Jim. I got the skinny on you -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 04:46:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Come on, Jim. I got the skinny on you -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:31:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Philip Michael Thomas -:- Rico Tubbs, Miami Vice TV show -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 14:27:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Rico Tubbs, Miami Vice TV show -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 21:25:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, Cat, wrong guy -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:33:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ dv -:- Hey Cat, did you work at Protech? -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 08:04:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ MV -:- Protech? -:- Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 00:59:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp near the bleachers -:- old joke, but true in your case -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:42:04 (EDT)
__ Gerry -:- Re: The current, sick cult philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:28:27 (EDT)
__ __ chooseing the heart? -:- philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:40:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ microvolt -:- Bigamy -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 13:39:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Bigamy -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 00:37:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Bigamy -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:24:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Bigayou -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:16:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Bigayou -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:32:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Bigayou -:- Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 00:13:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Gabby -:- Re: philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 23:17:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, it's a coincidence -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 23:39:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gabby -:- Re: Yeah, it's a coincidence -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:45:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Proof that Monica's his mistress -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:46:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ holy harem-bb -:- Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 23:56:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 00:56:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- setting straight the record -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 18:22:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 23:58:10 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Re: The current, sick cult philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ Gerry -:- Re: The current, sick cult philosophy -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:47:03 (EDT)
__ hot head -:- 'flame within'??? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:57:03 (EDT)

red -:- East Timor? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:14:07 (EDT)
__ __ red -:- Re: East Timor is a global shame . Your shame if you allow it to happen -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 21:19:20 (EDT)
__ Sukarta -:- East Timor is bankrupt, kaput. Why should he care? (NT) -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:37:40 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Is this an open forum? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:08:41 (EDT)
__ LdM -:- Re: The rules - time for a change -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:11:27 (EDT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Re: The rules - time for a change -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:37:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ LdM -:- Re: Thank you for your support -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 08:21:39 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- Nice post, Lee -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:31:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Maharaji's wristwatches -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 17:51:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ LdM -:- Re: Hi there -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 05:36:44 (EDT)
__ barney -:- Thanks, J-M -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:51:20 (EDT)

Agent 12 -:- Ready for a new, hot bombshell? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 04:56:45 (EDT)
__ dv -:- Best laugh of the day!!nt -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:10:10 (EDT)

Orlando -:- advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:07:55 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:12:13 (EDT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Thanks Orlando and goodbye Forum IV. -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 22:02:50 (EDT)
__ __ Dog Lover -:- Good dog, good dog. Sit. Stay! -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 22:36:54 (EDT)
__ __ Cold Ear -:- Promises, promises -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 17:59:54 (EDT)
__ __ Secret Admirer -:- Dog, stay for the silent lurkers -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:47:19 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Yeah, figures -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 03:44:57 (EDT)
__ __ bb -:- duh -:- Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:38:37 (EDT)
__ bb -:- Hook line and sinker -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:55:01 (EDT)
__ __ The horrible Nigel -:- I was just beginning to warm to you, too... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:29:12 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:05:16 (EDT)
__ __ Orlando -:- to Sir Dave -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:23:49 (EDT)
__ Runamok -:- Counter advice for Premies who post here -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:08:21 (EDT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 19:53:10 (EDT)
__ __ Shp, taking a stretch, still in the bleachers -:- Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:43:41 (EDT)
__ __ Orlando -:- Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:19:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ barney -:- What motivates Maharaji? MONEY! -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:05:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Orlando -:- As usual, you have missed my point entirely (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:23:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ barney -:- Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:50:44 (EDT)

Jim -:- An honest, sincere question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 22:56:26 (EDT)
__ Not Me -:- Re: An honest, sincere question -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:03:51 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- For all who have been abused -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:00:00 (EDT)
__ Waiting for the Dawn -:- Re: For all who have been abused -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:06:19 (EDT)
__ barney -:- Nice, but... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:02:47 (EDT)

barney -:- Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:24:47 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:00:37 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- Standard Maharajia Apologia #13 -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:57:14 (EDT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:04:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ barney -:- Careful Ben. Remember Miracle on 34th Street -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 00:52:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Careful Ben. Remember Miracle on 34th Street -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:16:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ barney -:- Watch what you say about Santa Claus -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:05:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Watch what you say about Santa Claus -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:48:08 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:58:20 (EDT)
__ __ URL -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:02:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ bb -:- url -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:26:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Know It All -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:07:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ THE HIGH TRIBUNAL -:- Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:49:35 (EDT)


Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:54:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The current, sick cult philosophy
Message:
Here's some of today's detritus on ELK:

Janice Wilson
Baldwinsville NY, USA

Magnum opus

The hardest, most rewarding work of all
To keep choosing this heart
To keep learning and growing and savouring this gift of life
Short on the one hand, but each moment exquisitely long,
when filled with the celebration of love and gratitude that pours from my heart
What a masterpiece it becomes with your loving help
Thank you that I can continue to embrace, accept, understand, receive
these gifts

I've noticed a lot of cult members murmuring this same zombie chant, 'I must choose the heart.... I must choose the heart .... I choose the heart, Master....I choose the heart in Gratitude, Master .... I love Popeye..... I love Popeye .... (apologies to Alice the Goon)

What are they really thinking? That they can starve the mind out or something? That they can put on these funny Kabir masks in front of the tv screen and recite wan, excruciatingly wierd self-critical 'poetry' that sounds more like forced 'self-examination' Maoist confessions from the Cultural Revolution than anything else I've come across:

Michele Deradune
Austin, TX, USA

Wanting to fall in love

I ask myself:
can I have the courage?
the courage to reflect
my own true inner nature?
to play my role to the hilt
to love and laugh and cry
like I know
like I know
the flame within
which can never die

Flirting, courting, wanting to fall in love,
in love with life.
life.
itself.

And then to remember that when these people take their masks off they're the same ugly know-nothings we entertain here in the form of Catweasel, Shp etc......

too much. Absolutely incredible.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 03:34:05 (EDT)
From: red
Email: under the bed
To: Jim
Subject: i love you jim your so nasty nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:07:19 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Respect for existence
Message:
The point is that there is a lot more inate intelligence through feeling than the logic of the mind can conjure up.

The mind is a great tool but you can't reach the awareness of the infinity of time and what we are made of through postulates and theorems. Even if those mental creations are dressed up as intricate psychological, sociological or political concepts. Or even models of science and mathematics.

Even you Jim know that down deep there is importance in the feelings that have no explanation.
In fact you are an accomplished guitarist. The best music feels good when it flows from the soul riding on the foundation of long hours of practice and chord theory.

The inspiration that can arise from feelings of wonder and love can certainly be a team with the great abilities of the mind.

Remember that Satan was created as the greatest Angel. But Satan attempted to become the one and all and that was Satans downfall. Thats the story.

I saw the story again on the nightly news of the Galvaston hurricane of 1900. People tempted nature by their ignorance and arrogance. Disaster resulted.

There is nothing wrong with having respect for our existence in its purest form.

Regards,
CD

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 11:44:38 (EDT)
From: DVD
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Re: Respect for existence
Message:
Would the heartbeat qualify as also being 'existence in
it's purest form'??

And what about the working of the liver?
Is air so pure?
Are your lungs so pure?
(especially YOUR lungs, with you going to smoky
blues bars and all!)

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Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 05:21:08 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: DVD
Subject: Respect the gift
Message:
>Would the heartbeat qualify as also being 'existence in
it's purest form'??

The heartbeat is our quantification.

>Is air so pure?

What is pure? How about all that empty space between those electrons? Or is that just another model to satisfy our practical needs for the current era.

Do you feel like a chemical when you are still and can feel what is, instead of what you think?

>Are your lungs so pure?

No. And neither are my motives at times.
Yet I hope for better and have felt it.

Take care and have fun!
CD

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:34:35 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Oh, is it finally discussion time, Chris?
Message:
Chris,

I'll happily respond on the assumption that you're finally ready to talk. I don't mean snipe, smirk, smile or shrug. I mean talk.

Okay.

You wrote:

The mind is a great tool but you can't reach the awareness of the infinity of time and what we are made of through postulates and theorems. Even if those mental creations are dressed up as intricate psychological, sociological or political concepts. Or even models of science and mathematics.

I think you're fundamentally confused here. You don't 'reach the awareness of infinity and what we are made up' through feeling. After all, people have been feeling for years but it's only recently that we've grown beyond thinking we're literally comprised of the four (or five) ethers, yin or yang meridians, string, snails and puppy dog tails. How'd we do that? By the accumulated fruits of centuries of observation and analysis. Your 'postulates and theorems' alternative is something of a straw man. It's not just 'postulates and theorems' but postulates and theorems in conjunction with observation and experimentation that's moved us as far as we've come so far along the path to understanding the world and us in it. So give full credit where it's due and, I'm afraid, you won't have all that many prizes left to give out to ephemeral hunches for explaining things. At best, hunches just tell us where best to focus our scientific efforts. If you actually allow yourself to think -- maybe even discuss -- this one through, Chris, you'll end up conceding more than you might think.

Your example of music also fails to do what you'd like it to. No one's saying that music, sex or even cooking shouldn't be left to the uncharted and unchartered moods within us. That's another straw man you love to trot out, isn't it? But music's not a form of learning about the world either. It's a form of expression, communication and play, I guess you could say. But that's it.

But here's where you really hamstring yourself, in my opinion:

The inspiration that can arise from feelings of wonder and love can certainly be a team with the great abilities of the mind.

You always seem to be trying to broker some sort of unnatural compromise between knowledge and the pleasure of wonder. Wonder, if it's genuine, really 'wonders'. It's all about wanting to know, wanting to learn. Kids aren't faking it when they ask 'what's that?' and 'what's that?' They're not being cute and they're not 'allowing themselves to feel the wonder'. They really want to know.

So-called spiritual people like you, though, enshrine the desire to know as an end desitination it itself. That's wrong and, ironically, is nicely described in your cult leader's story of the guy who sees the sign for 'New York' and thinks he's found the city itself right there at the signpost. But then all religion does that.

You know, it's like when I had that drink with Raja Ji. I told him I had all these questions and he tried to make that fact special in itself. As if to say 'Hey, man, we ain't really looking for answers here and isn't it nice that you can articulate your questions so earnestly'. Fuck that. I wanted to know. What was the truth about his brother? What was the truth about knowledge?

Maharaji teaches disdain for the mind. You're going to have to shake that off one of these days, Chris.

Or not.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 05:26:57 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A presentation of viewpoints
Message:
>I think you're fundamentally confused here.

That would be my first guess as to your reaction.
You have a viewpoint but no answers.

>it's only recently that we've grown beyond thinking we're literally comprised of the four (or five) ethers, yin or yang meridians, string, snails and puppy dog tails. How'd we do that?

Your estimate of the growth rate is highly inflated.

>But music's not a form of learning about the world either. It's a form of expression, communication and play,

You seem to believe a well structured model that defines the line between when we learn and when we don't.

'learning about the world' is a form of expresssion, communication and play. Do you really believe that we are closer to understanding the nature of the infinite existence?
I have no problem with scientific inquiry. Yet, the findings and rate and depth of progress are often highly overrated. In 20 years there will certainly be more findings and on and on it goes.

>You always seem to be trying to broker some sort of unnatural compromise between knowledge and the pleasure of wonder.

The nature of the practice of knowledge is to want to know. But a knowing that is not limited by the idea of the day.

>Maharaji teaches disdain for the mind.

Thats not what I learned. But I do know that to rely on the whims of the mind for satisfaction is a mistake. And many problems are caused by what people believe when ideas mask the reality of what really is or could be.
There is such a thing as delusions of grandeur.
There is such a thing as learned bigotry and hatred.

The way I see it is that we both see it differently.
At least we both enjoy playing the guitar. Thats a small start to mutual respect.

Its late and I'm hard at work, but decided to give you the pleasure of a response.

Regards,
CD

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:41:20 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: A trite subject line
Message:
Chris,

Your argument seems to have two components:

1) You like to quibble with the speed and extent of scientific progress. Boring!

2) You cling to this notion of 'infinite' which, you must admit, is just an empty term when it comes right down to it. For all you know, your 'soul' (which, of course, I don't believe in) isn't infinite at all but rather has an expected life span of, oh say, 3 million years. I mean, how in the world could you know the difference?

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Date: Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:37:32 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Go to the putdown corner
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:11:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Sorry, Liz, I keep forgetting
Message:
I keep forgetting how SINCERE premies are. Thanks for reminding me.
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Date: Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:40:54 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Go to the putdown corner
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 12:05:07 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: May I join in?
Message:
Do you really believe that we are closer to understanding the nature of the infinite existence?

Can you really say there is such a thing? You're living on a prayer, brother, not fact.

I have no problem with scientific inquiry. Yet, the findings and rate and depth of progress are often highly overrated. In 20 years there will certainly be more findings and on and on it goes.

Yeah, so? You want absolute answers to every little thing right here and right now? It doesn't work that way. Consciousness and intelligence are relatively recent developments of evolution. It's only been a short while that beings capable of studying the universe they live in have existed. Before that, for a much, much longer period, the universe was nothing but an unconscious mass just evolving with no design.

The nature of the practice of knowledge is to want to know.

To know what? What are you going to learn by meditating? How to relax? How to twiddle your thumbs waiting for some cosmic revelation to occur? What are you going to learn? Who you are and where you fit in the universe? What God's plan is for you? Keep dreaming.

There is such a thing as delusions of grandeur.

No shit? Duh, Maharaji wouldn't be having this problem, now, would he? One thing you should know about people who turn to the mind for answers. We know that the mind has limitations and is frequently unclear and confused. We're humbled by that. But we don't kid ourselves that there's another, more cosmic mind at our disposal that has all the answers. THAT'S grandiosity. I'd excersise the mind you have, Chris. It's your only hope of really learning who you are. You can feel all you want to but without your mind to help you understand what those feelings are and where they come from, ignorance is your only alternative.

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:46:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: You're a little late, Jer
Message:
Jerry,

That little exchange seems to have taken the wind out of Chris. He needs short bite-size pieces. Try shrugging at him. Maybe he'll smile back. It's not much but it's something. (May even be infinite, for all I know).

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Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 05:13:27 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jerrys got an opinion too!
Message:
>That little exchange seems to have taken the wind out of Chris. He needs short bite-size pieces.

Jim,
The truth of the matter is that I spent the week at a 5 day computer conference studying the innards of Windows NT, MTS and the latest COM+ details such as async method calls and the neutral apartment. Turns out the neutral apartment is the evolution of daily life into the computational organization space. Its the bachelor pad. You know, thread is the woman and object is the man.

I intend to be patient with you.
We shall return to the consequences of the infinite soon.
Waiting for peace we have opinions to play with.

CD

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:28:09 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Easy does it, eh?
Message:
Okay, Jim, I'm game. Chris, here's a shrug at ya. You're turn. This could lead into something big.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 21:50:57 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Beam me up, potty...
Message:
It's life, Jim - but not as we know it...
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:43:35 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You want cults?
Message:
More than you ever knew existed:

WATCHMAN

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:49:10 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: Phreak
Subject: You want cults?
Message:
More than you ever knew existed:

http://www.watchman.org/indxmenu.htm

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 18:00:07 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: Phreak
Subject: Another useful site
Message:
If you're really bored, try this site, you'll know what to look for when you get there:)

http://www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search.html

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:58:12 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Phreak
Subject: House of Maharaji Drek has links
Message:
Thanks Mr. Phreak.

I liked Necromancy: Attempts to discover the future or obtain information by invoking help of the dead or communication with the dead. Kind of sounds like Maharaji in that you attempt to communicate with someone who never answers back.

Roger's House of Maharaji Drek has links to many cults and lists of cults.

Check out the False Links and the Weak Links.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 14:12:26 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: But who's linking to US???
Message:
My pleasure entirely, sir.

Now if you want to know who's linking to THIS site, and others, go to:

http://www.mato.demon.nl/search/lnksrch.htm

Dontcha love this stuff :)

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 19:42:20 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: Phreak
Subject: Re: Another useful site
Message:
Phreak

why do you think we want to look at a massive list of cults? Why do you think we want to look up aircraft reg. numbers? OK so this is a site related to a cult (a specific cult) but I don't want to be diverted to a Jehova's witness site. And although I know that Prempal Rawat own's a jet plane I do not want to look at plane numbers. If you have anything worth saying what exactly is it?

Charles

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 14:25:44 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: ouch charlie
Message:
Mr Charles,

A bit on the caustic side?

Hey, I got just the solution for random nutbusters:

Go to DOS and type in the following:

C:\>debug
-e 100
b8 11 05 bb 10 01 b9 01 00 ba 80 00 cd 13 cd 20
00 80 00 02 00 03 00 04 00 05 00 06 00 07 00 08
00 09 00 0a 00 0b 00 0c 00 0d 00 0e 00 0f 00 10
-g
C:\>

Now reboot and wait for something to happen
And wait...and wait.. and wait!!

Be nice :)

Ph.

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:05:59 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: phreakedout@grouchy.com
To: Phreak
Subject: Re: grouch charlie
Message:
Dear Mr Phreak

I am sorry. My husband is a dreadful grouch. My children and I have advised him to take some walks to the park, run through some meadows with the wind whistling in his thinning hair, take it easy. He'll probably send me a grouchy post soon.

HELP!

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 14:31:54 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: Phreak
Subject: Re: ouch charlie
Message:
Dear Phreak,

I'm a bit of a grouch at the moment. Sorry if you were offended. I got the impression you were trying to divert me to another part of the internet for no particular reason. I may have been mistaken.

I was getting bored as it happens but just not so bored I wanted to scroll through lists of aircraft numbers. I had noticed that although their were a few good posts on the forum over the weekend the place sure looked like it had more than it's fair share of Spam. For instance I can't be fucked if Shp is on or off the bleachers but I read too much about this subject.

Another time maybe. I am too thick to figure out if there was a hidden message within your link.

Grrr.. Charles the Grouch

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 18:58:43 (EDT)
From: Phreak
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: No problemo
Message:
Mr Groucho,

Hey, peace man. I'm not into this shit really, it's my dad's thing, or was. I'm too used to waging wars in the Darkside & I got carried away.

The airplane site has the goomer's address & phone number listed if you search right, and my old man seems to think you lot relish that kind of info. Me I could give a rat's ass, give me his SLIP# and I'll turn his motherboard into a smokin' mess o' plastic.

BTW do not - DO NOT - run the code I gave ya - you'll never boot up again!

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:58:22 (EDT)
From: Shp is off the bleachers in your face
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The ex-pot call the kettle black
Message:
'And then to remember that when these people take their masks off they're the same ugly
know-nothings we entertain here in the form of Catweasel, Shp etc......' -Jim

And your sorry ass was once there too...you are too close to your own pain to deal with others very well.
You abhor the process, you just want the result. Doesn't work that way.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:08:44 (EDT)
From: phat phreak
Email: phreak@2600.com
To: Shp
Subject: Empty words
Message:

Your real problem, SHP, is that you can't see the Truth even when it's right in front of you.

You see Jim's name on a message, and you're completely blind by prejudice, to the words he is writing.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:01:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp is off the bleachers in your face
Subject: You're too stupid for words
Message:
Shp,

If people needed to licence the language you'd have yours cancelled for stupidity. You shouldn't be allowed to speak. You're that dumb.

Look, stupid, I know I was there too. Like, DUH! And yes, I was a hypocrite too, trying to fool myself with some idiotic anti-mind spiritual nonsense. What's your point? That you've never learnt any better? We know that. Give us some news. Like tell us when you're next leaving or coming or whatever. Can't wait.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:21:05 (EDT)
From: Shp really wanting to get back to the bleachers, but...
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Response to Jim
Message:
Shp,

If people needed to licence the language you'd have yours cancelled for stupidity. You
shouldn't be allowed to speak. You're that dumb.

> Your point? That you are a master of the art of adolescent insult lines? Point taken.

Look, stupid, I know I was there too. Like, DUH! And yes, I was a hypocrite too, trying to fool
myself with some idiotic anti-mind spiritual nonsense. What's your point? That you've never
learnt any better? We know that. Give us some news. Like tell us when you're next leaving or
coming or whatever. Can't wait.

>I don't care for your tactics now and I wouldn't want to hang out with you even if I did leave Maharaji.
There are premies I don't care for either. I didn't marry every premie when I got Knowledge, and I would not automatically be, or want to be, in your posse if I left.

You probably take personal credit for all those who turn because you make so much noise around here. Keep dreaming. You turn away some of your own ex-premie buddies and most all premies by your own personal behavior, and then in a most lawyerly way try to turn it around. King of the hill, that's you. Check out what you are standing on, what that hill you rule is made out of that you have created. And I'm not talking about any the other exers or this site as a whole, just you.

I am calling you out for being a terrorist here. You can't hide behind this forum any more than a premie can hide behind Maharaji

You include me in your conversation by talking about me. That gives me the right to respond. If you don't want to hear from me, don't use my name to illustrate your jagged points.

Shp back to the bleachers

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:52:57 (EDT)
From: Tag Team Abner Louima
Email: None
To: Shp really wanting to get back to the bleachers, but...
Subject: Shp, can't leave, huh?
Message:
From Barbara in post titled Re: Care for her friend?:
There's SHP trying to be righteous and figure it all out.

Email from Shp to barney

I don't expect justice or feedback, Barn. I'm just rubbing your consensual hypocrisy in your face, WebMaster Barney. Your webmastery reminds me of the police officer who held down Abner Louima while another officer shoved a strick up his ass and hurt him real bad internally (NYC). He got punished too, bigtime. You are an accessory.

How does it feel being a two-dimensional cardboard facade for Jim to commit cyber assault and battery?

Watch out for strong winds, because unless you anchor yourself better in the truth, you will blow over reall easy.

Ah, Mr. Shp! Always end your posts with some saint-like wisdom or Have a nice day!

You're are such a piece of work, don Quixote. What a martyr you are! What a true premie you are to take on this service for your Master. Hopefully, you will be rewarded one day with a personal audience with Maharaji in HIS office where HE thanks you for your great efforts. HE knows what you're going through here and HE appreciates it. HE'll be behind his desk listening to you attentively for hours beyond the atomic accurate time allotted to you. Every wrist watch set to atomic time keeping track of the precious seconds as you marvel in your moment and Maharaji pulls a bottle of brandy from the bottom drawer of his desk and offers you a drink as he allows you to pontificate. At the next program Maharaji even uses one of your elaborations on seeking truth and loving your creator. What an honor - Maharaji echoing your words of wisdom on video tape translated into more languages than are translated at the U.N.

My little raisin, your day in the sun will come!

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:15:11 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Tag Team Abner Louima
Subject: Bleacher bound
Message:
Barney,
I was on the bleachers and then Jimmy threw my name around, then I came back, then I really came back. Please check out the Oneness thing, especially the postscript. Evolution will occur as fast and as far as the critter wants to, is able to, and is willing, to go. I want to evolve alot real fast in love and in right action.
No hard feleings about your post.
Shp looking for my magazine at the back of the bleachers

PS I already asked you to stop using Abner. It is not healthy for other readers or us. I know I started it and I admitted it was not right. Let it go, please.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:46:04 (EDT)
From: Abner Louima
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Bondage under the Bleachers
Message:
Ah, my high school fantasy, all tied up under the bleachers with the cheerleaders cheering on the defensive line of the team as they kick the shit out of me while I'm in the school mascot costume of Beaver Falls High.

Sorry, Shp, I missed your recall notice on the use of Abner Louima. For some reason I don't read all your posts. Nah, too late - the horse is already out of the barn. Yup, you'd like to forget that you said such, but I am not forgetting and I don't think that other people should forget either. Why should I be an accessory in helping you redeem your sweet and wisdom-laden public persona here.

You're bogus, man. You're just another angry wolf in sheep's clothing. Your act is very transparent. You need to be a little more honest with yourself and how you really feel. Without such honesty how can you ever get at the truth? I sincerely believe if you would step off of your soapbox and just be honest and say that your as mad as hell and hate us that you'd get a little more respect.

Ok, your turn, spinmaster.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:49:20 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Barney
Subject: Re: Bondage under the Bleachers
Message:
I don't hate you.
You did shaft me back then, but I lowered my standards to be so graphic about it.
I can see you through the slats getting it on down there...cut that out!
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:25:17 (EDT)
From: Abner
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Sympathy will get the martyr everywhere
Message:
Like you Shp my fantasy plays off the hopefully expected sympathy of some sweet, young and kind cheerleaders who witness the football team kicking the shit out of me. It's the only way I could ever get a cheerleader to take me home to mom and nurse be back to health.

Hey, wait a minute! My girlfriend was a cheerleader and I wasn't even on the football team.

I shafted you back then? No, you shafted yourself. Take responsibility for your actions. I'd do the same thing again. You were/are a pest and a nuisance.

Why can't we just agree not to get along?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 17:27:41 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Abner
Subject: The age of martyrs is over
Message:
'Why can't we just agree not to get along?'

You got it.

I like to always leave room for improvement.

Tough luck about the cheerleaders.

I was in the band.

I quit when they told me to polish the drum major's shoes.

We have more in common than we can cut through here.

So let's agree on what you said for now and see what happens next.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:27:36 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: SHP
Subject: RE:Lawyers
Message:
Come on SHP we all know 99% of lawyers give the other 1% a bad name - just like premies.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:31:42 (EDT)
From: Shp halfway up the bleachers
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: RE:Lawyers
Message:
Don't get me started on lawyer jokes...OK just one:

Q: What's the difference between many lawyers and a carp?

A: One is a scum sucking bottom dweller and the other one is a fish.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:36:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp halfway up the bleachers
Subject: I'm so embarrassed for you
Message:
That joke is so OLD!, even in your dumb new-age circles. I can't believe you said that.

Shp, no one likes you here. Ever notice that?

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:28:23 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Embarrassed for you too, Cat
Message:
I think you've got the wrong guy. What's a Broadripple?
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 02:04:43 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Embarrassed for you too, Cat
Message:
No, Cat, I don't. What the hell are you talking about?
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 04:46:32 (EDT)
From: Philip Michael Thomas
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come on, Jim. I got the skinny on you
Message:
Come on, Jim!

You must remember me?

Ok, we met at my new home in Coral Gables back in '84, the year my TV show went big. You were working with Protech and doing some work on the house and you told me about Maharaji. I went to Satsang and again met you there. We went clubbing later in South Beach. And you helped me out with some problems I was having because of my sudden stardom.

And in April of '85 you borrowed my Cigarette boat for a night ride and you crashed it on a reef and all sorts of shit went down. And that's the last I saw of you. You split town that night.

You making enough money to cover that boat yet? I'm having a problem right now finding roles that are suitable with where I want to be going.

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:31:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Philip Michael Thomas
Subject: Re: Come on, Jim. I got the skinny on you
Message:
?????
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 14:27:24 (EDT)
From: Philip Michael Thomas
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Rico Tubbs, Miami Vice TV show
Message:
Damn! Here today, gone tomorrow. All right, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up.
My page at IMDB
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 21:25:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Philip Michael Thomas
Subject: Re: Rico Tubbs, Miami Vice TV show
Message:
I don't get it. Am I supposed to know you or something? Did we do a movie together maybe? That'd be pretty strange, man, because I don't do movies.
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 11:33:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Sorry, Cat, wrong guy
Message:
Cat,

You're dreaming. Black hair and none of the rest of the above either.

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 08:04:52 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Hey Cat, did you work at Protech?
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 00:59:31 (EDT)
From: MV
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Protech?
Message:
Hmmm, I knew Jaimie and this poster knows about
Miami and the miami vice guy.
Not OUR Jim though.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:42:04 (EDT)
From: Shp near the bleachers
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: old joke, but true in your case
Message:
Shp, no one likes you here. Ever notice that?

>Last time I heard somebody use that line on somebody else, they were negotiating for more sandbox.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:28:27 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The current, sick cult philosophy
Message:
The hardest, most rewarding work of all
To keep choosing this heart

Yeah, the 'heart' stuff really makes me laugh. If they had really discovered the heart, or heart intelligence, that is, they woud know that the 'difficult choice' to stay in the heart is not difficult at all. It's a habit that grows on you the more you choose to use it. It's the simplest, most nature thing in the world, and it is its own reward. The more you chose to listen to your heart (once you connect) the easier it gets. And there is no conflict with the mind at all.

PS Sorry about Bumbershoots. It was my fault. Glad you guys had a good time except for the hour you spent looking for us. That probably wasn't any fun at all.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:40:31 (EDT)
From: chooseing the heart?
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: philosophy
Message:
Of course, like marolyn said, it is all stress and not
the heart except feeling your breath and being like
Jim said, being practically autistic about the rest of
the world.

Too bad 'chooseing the heart' doesnt include chooseing
monogamy in marriage!
Marilyn has to share the lords teeny weeny with that
slut Monica Lewis the instructor/concubine/whore
that the lord insists on cheating with!

So much for Compassion that url squacked about!

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 13:39:17 (EDT)
From: microvolt
Email: None
To: chooseing the heart?
Subject: Bigamy
Message:
Remember, Prempal's father was a bigamist too, having two wives. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree... But he was married to both. Simultaneously!
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Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 00:37:07 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: microvolt
Subject: Re: Bigamy
Message:
Jeeze, no boundries for the lord I guess.
Those darned rawats!
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Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:24:44 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: Bigamy
Message:
To paraphrase,
'Yes it's bigamy, and its bigayou too'
Groucho Marx
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Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:16:52 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Bigayou
Message:
Hi Robyn
I still love you.
We are getting the rain of that hurricane.
I wont have to water the garden.
We have a couple -fun- gardens, two, one for each of
the youngest boys. I bought seeds that are from champion
sized plants and so we will see what happens.
Pumpkins, watermelons, one foot string beans, giant
gourds, giant squash and regular tomatoes and others.

Are you typing from work?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:32:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: Bigayou
Message:
Dear Bill,
Thanks honey, I still love you too! :)
I had a garden for a couple years but now I just mow it! I don't know where I was when I posted that post, I do think I was home, can't remember though! What, do they have you keeping track of me! ? :)
Maybe I'll see you and your sons on the news with a monster pumkin! :)
How is you TALL exchange student?
Love,
Robyn
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Sep 18, 1999 at 00:13:24 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Bigayou
Message:
The giant from africa is off at St Johns now.
He had some distant relatives not far away so he
ended up spending most of the summer there.
It was closer to the uconn basketball gym.

Luckily, because he was a real chow hound.
I eat a lot also but my metab is fast or something
and it just doesn't land anywhere. I keep the same belt
without trying. My wife is the opposite. I pity her
having to think about food.

You know, a few years ago there was a hurricane that
was off the north carolina coast and heading for it
and I ordered the hurricane to NOT come my way
(because I wanted the autumn leaves to not blow off),
well, next thing I hear, it is coming MY way.
The eye passed right over head.
Last week, the hurricane was headed to fla all wound up
and I ordered it to avoid fla and head north.
Well, coincidence again, the dang thing came here
and the eye went right overhead! What was left of it
anyway.
It came over last night at 3 am.
I'll have to try that again.

Thats funny about mowing your garden.
We could never live for a day off our garden, I
dont know how those yesteryear folks did it. They had
it rough.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 23:17:33 (EDT)
From: Gabby
Email: None
To: chooseing the heart?
Subject: Re: philosophy
Message:
Who the hell is Monica Lewis? Sound too much like Monica Lewinski to me or is that an incredible coincidence?
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 23:39:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gabby
Subject: Yeah, it's a coincidence
Message:
Monica Lewis is Maharaji's long-time paramour.
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:45:31 (EDT)
From: Gabby
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Yeah, it's a coincidence
Message:
Dear Jim,

How do you know this?

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:46:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gabby
Subject: Proof that Monica's his mistress
Message:
I don't really. What I have is a whole lot of independently-sourced reports from all sorts of people, many ex-PAMs who knew it as common knowledge for years.

I don't know. Ask JM or Bill Burke or maybe Anth. It just seems like a pretty settled point by now.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 23:56:37 (EDT)
From: holy harem-bb
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress
Message:
Mark Appleman and the Malubu Mole wrote some detailed
posts about this.
Gabby, Anon knows about some of the mistresses
in England in the eighties and I know that he had an
affair with Claudia! And if you can procure a hair
from Navlata, we can do a DNA sample match with
the lord (because we have some samples of his DNA)
and settle the issue that in fact Navlata is HIS child
and NOT raja ji's.
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Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 00:56:06 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: anon
Subject: Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress
Message:
Dear Anon,

Who are these aforesaid mistresses of Miraji in the U.K.? Put your money where your mouth is please!

Liz

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Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 18:22:15 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: setting straight the record
Message:
Excuse me but contrary to what bb said, I certainly have no knowledge of any 'mistresses in the UK' and don't recall ever suggesting that I had.
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 23:58:10 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: holy harem-bb
Subject: Re: Proof that Monica's his mistress
Message:
Tomorrow is monday and if Gabby has a comment, I
wont be seeing it for a few days.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Re: The current, sick cult philosophy
Message:
Gerry,

Apology accepted. There was one funny moment when the MacDonald's guy came out and told us to move along. We told him were were selling drugs and asked him if he knew of a better spot. He seemed to believe us and .....

Anyway, you really believe this heart stuff? I think it's nonsense. A throwback to some pretty naive ideas about the human body, mind, etc.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:47:03 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The current, sick cult philosophy
Message:
Anyway, you really believe this heart stuff?

Yes, but this is a very recent development. I wouldn't have believed it if it weren't for two things: 1) The book The Heartmath Solution presents cogent, reproducible, hardcore scientific evidence of the measureable (EKG, ECG, blood tests) benefits of 'connecting and listening to the heart'

and 2) I tried the simple methods for utilizing this information and it works for me. For whatever reasons I have (had?) a very difficult time controlling my emotions (especially anger) and could literally feel my heart go into an incoherent heart rate and my body being flooded with the 'fight/flight hormones (adrenalin and such) to the point of near incapacitation. To me this 'knowledge' is potentially life saving--blood pressure and all, you know.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:57:03 (EDT)
From: hot head
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'flame within'???
Message:
What flame within??
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:14:07 (EDT)
From: red
Email: under the bed
To: All
Subject: East Timor?
Message:
How many you australian premies attended any of nationwide protests today?Also ask m if he knows where East Timor is.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 21:19:20 (EDT)
From: red
Email: under the bed
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: East Timor is a global shame . Your shame if you allow it to happen
Message:
Why? What gave me the shits was watching thinking people turn into apolitical braindeads after recieving k.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:37:40 (EDT)
From: Sukarta
Email: None
To: red
Subject: East Timor is bankrupt, kaput. Why should he care? (NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:08:41 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is this an open forum?
Message:
Let's be clear, please.

This is a forum here, where exes can express their feelings reg 'knowledge', their past involvement, their ex-guru, and whatever issue
related to this, amongst other things.

The letter's recipient is an ex, she's every right to post here on an issue involving her past relationship with her ex-master and his wife.

Some people may think it's very distasteful, I agree with them. But the Rawat's attitude is even more disgusting for her.

This is the reality of the cult.

People who don't like what's being said on this forum can post on ELK, I guess.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:11:27 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: The rules - time for a change
Message:
The moment I took Knowledge and took the vows, I entered a game with unknown rules. These were revealed over time as I spent my energy and precious time getting into the knowledge. I found that there was a huge mountain before me - I was at the bottom and maharaji was right at the top, very far away. He was very enticing, he looked golden, like the Buddha. He said that if I would take just a few steps towards him, in return he The Perfect Master would take a million steps towards me. After some time and many little steps later (spent in service, satsang and endless meditation) I had glimpses but nothing more. And maharaji was still so far away. What more could I do? Maybe some more personal sacrifice? Give up my discriminating mind, no need for it here. This is the thing that holds you back. It's taken me all this time to realise that he couldn't see me, he never took the steps towards me that he said he would, he in fact didn't care for me at all, although I was totally devoted to him.

I have played this game with maharaji for 18 years, with his rules in force. I've had enough now - he said to walk away if I didn't want/like knowledge. But it's not that easy. Having knowledge for so long has crippled me emotionally and psychologically. I feel guilty sometimes examining the 'dirt' about maharaji and his entourage - but that's because I've been conditioned NOT to question maharaji and what he does.

I welcome you publishing the letter, Jean Michel. It's important to me to be able to examine how maharaji's wife has dealt in the past with problems which have been presented to her. It's important for me to see that despite her kind words, she had nothing more to offer than satsang. This works with cheering someone up but doesn't help one bit when the problem is major. No, I don't like the fact that personal privacy has been breached, but who said exes have to be nice? Are there any rules about being an ex? As far as I'm concerned, anything that is going to help me to get better, get out of the cult-think, is OK in my books. Yeah, I'm confused, I get lost in my anger sometimes BUT I'm getting back on my feet again. And that's no thanks to Maharaji whatsoever.

I just wanted to put my opinion about this matter on the forum because it is obviously a very sensitive matter for all of us.

Lee

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:37:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Re: The rules - time for a change
Message:
Dear Lee,
I think this letter was posted a long time ago and there was some discussion about it then. For me the letter itself and how some might see it as betraying Marilyon was not the problem if the person recieving the letter was OK with it being posted. I haven't followed it this time round. Just wanted to read what you had to say. :)
I want to tell you that I am glad you are moving through this process of getting out of that cult thinking and I hope you get better at the emotional and psychological side of things. You have a good support system I hope, between Charlie and you for him and here. I feel like I am to long out and didn't have a hard time in or getting out that I am not much help to those, like you, who have been in so long but I am routing for you if that helps.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 08:21:39 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Thank you for your support
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 15:31:02 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Nice post, Lee
Message:
With all the righteous indignation that the premies call the forum a cesspool even I have been wondering about that.

However, as your post indicates the trip into Maharaji and HIS Knowledge starts with one small step into a game with unknown rules. No one is told up front what it's all about and that is even more true today starting with the videos of walking on the beaches and mountain streams as Maharaji recites his ridiculous poetry. It isn't until much later in the aspirant process that one hears Maharaji boasting about his expensive wrist watch collection. And the aspirants will never hear of his gold plated toilets.

The whole Maharaji trip starts off as a free ride and only later, much later does one learn of gratitude and participation. By then it is too late.

And Lee is correct that when Knowledge doesn't seem to be working the premie will attempt to make more personal sacrifices. For me my last personal sacrifice was sending more money to the local community and the national organization every month.

Like Lee I was crippled emotionally and psychologically by trying to play this strange game with no apparent rules and a very elusive goal. And as it turned out the game was being constantly manipulated by a selfish and greedy slimeball for the purpose of having a really cool wrist watch collection. I'm really into the wrist watch collection now because to me it is more absurd than his golden toilets. I mean HE boasts of his collection at programs. How the hell can premies, some who are barely scraping by because of all the sacrifices they've previously made, relate to such?

Where did he get all that money? Why are premies constantly told that the organization is on the verge of going under (implying that there will be no more programs with Maharaji) and that premies need to participate more and more.

Yes, the Forum can be a street rumble, but it is needed to say what isn't said by Maharaji and HIS organization. People need to know what's happening in L.A. And what good does Knowledge and even close personal association with Maharaji do when there are examples of horrific behavior on the part of his Mahatmas and friends? If that's consciousness I want unconsciousness.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 17:51:23 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Maharaji's wristwatches
Message:
Yeah, I've heard Maharaji talk about his wristwatches. It was a big 'drip' in my journey. It really did nothing for me to hear Maharaji talk about how enamoured by wristwatches he is. Who cares? How was that going to help me get enlightened? I bet a lot of people got turned off by it. Dummy should realize that talking about his infatuation with material posessions isn't going to warm anybody's heart toward him. I bet even the most hardcore premie flinches when he or she hears M going on about his material posessions. All it does is open a can of worms that everybody's sitting on.
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 05:36:44 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Hi there
Message:
Dear Barney

If that's consciousness I want unconsciousness.

Luckily, we are now able to see that it isn't consciousness. At least I've got my eyesight back.

Lee

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:51:20 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks, J-M
Message:
Again, I think that a lot of us, including me, did not know of (1) that the recipient wanted the letter posted and (2) the letter was more than just a regular premie asking Marolyn for regular help on your everyday, everylife problems. Instead, and we don't need to know the details, there was something sinister going down in MalibuTown in Maharaji's backyard with Maharaji's friends and associates.

Unfortunately, the letter involved Marolyn to whom many, including myself, is a beloved sacred cow. For that reason it might be considered disdainful. However, if the reality is that Maharaji is a thoughtless lout who doesn't give a damn for anyone other than himself then there is value in posting the letter. After all we can pretty much rest assured that Maharaji will never be caught with the smoking gun. Premies would die or go to jail to protect their Lord and Maharaji is trickier than old Tricky Dick Nixon and his missing nine minutes of tape.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 04:56:45 (EDT)
From: Agent 12
Email: I_am_not_angry_anymore@lover_of_premies.gmj
To: All
Subject: Ready for a new, hot bombshell?
Message:
I'm not sure if the premies are ready for another blast attack on their beloved Master. Maybe I should hold off for a few days.

What the hell!

If you don't think that you can handle it then you'd best not scroll this page down!

This is your last warning!

It's coming soon.

Get ready!

I just bought the L.A. Times and there's an article stating that Maharaji was arrested for driving in the nude.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:10:10 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Agent 12
Subject: Best laugh of the day!!nt
Message:
n
dv
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:07:55 (EDT)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: All
Subject: advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog
Message:
Hi guys (gals?),
i am a 'practicing' person with K. who has been reading for a while and who posts every once in a while.
Although i appreciate your comments and generally agree with you (i wish i was as articulate), i can't help but feel that you are kind of falling into a trap when you get really pissed at Jim, JM or whoever else tries to get your goat.
When things get real boring around here, someone pulls out some 'controversy', knowing full well that premies will react.
I mean, this is the SECOND time Marolyn's letter is being posted and it brought the same reactions both times (from most people, ex or not).
Some people are having a good time right now, at your expense.
Because ex feel that M. is 'out of their reach', they love attaking premies & friends as a revenge. The funniest part is that when they do get the premies pissed they then turn around and say: 'see how hateful the premies are?'.
Also, since the last few months, a lot of the more 'sensible' exes have left this site; they were no longer appreciating the fighting amongst exes. What we have left are the more agressive 'hard core' exes who want to 'bring down M.'
Dear friends, you will never win this game. The only time you win is when you don't take the bait.
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Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:12:13 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Re: advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog
Message:
Agreed. It is usually a complete waste of time exchanging views with the exes. Even the ones I respect at some point end up being just as foolishly pin-headed as the rest. You fall into the trap of becoming incensed by their viewpoints when they have been totally colored by their own mistrust. The fact is they need to argue with us more than we need to argue with them.

That is the difference between exes and premies -- exes view everything Maharaji does through the eyes of their suspicion, whereas premies view what he does through the trust they have developed in practising Knowledge.

As for the sleazy practices of exes on this forum -- hey, there's no amount of justification that condones it, and I personally feel from time to time the need to strongly assert that fact. I do agree with you however that most of the time it's better to just lurk. Thanks for the advice.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 22:02:50 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Thanks Orlando and goodbye Forum IV.
Message:
Orlando,

Thanks for the advice. I'm beginning to suspect you're right. I don't think my postings are having much affect and my words are falling on cold hearts and deaf ears. It seems kind of pointless to keep on when posting when I could be doing other things with my free time. I think M is going to criticised no matter what he does. It comes with the territory.

I'm reminded of the Aesop's fable where a father and son are taking a donkey to town to sell it. They start out with all three walking but people criticized them for not using the donkey, so the son got on it. Then people criticised the son for riding and letting his father walk. So the father got on the donkey, then people criticized him for letting his son walk and for being too heavy. It ended up with the father and son carrying the donkey then people really went ballistic. When they crossed a bridge the donkey freaked out, struggled, and fell over the side and drowned. The moral, you can't please everyone.

So to all you exes who are pissed off at Maharaji for not living up to your concepts, and who thought that Knowledge was going to be like some permanent heroin trip with no problems, goodbye.

Knowledge doesn't promise you an easy life, it promises you a life worth living. Live and let die.

Deputy Dog Gone

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 22:36:54 (EDT)
From: Dog Lover
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Good dog, good dog. Sit. Stay!
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 17:59:54 (EDT)
From: Cold Ear
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Promises, promises
Message:
Knowledge doesn't promise you an easy life, it promises you a life worth living.

Yeah, Knowledge makes a lot of promises. It's not very good at keeping them. Go fuck off, asshole. Nobody wants to hear anymore of your bullshit anyway.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 15:47:19 (EDT)
From: Secret Admirer
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Dog, stay for the silent lurkers
Message:
I don't think my postings are having much affect and my words are falling on cold hearts and deaf ears.

There are many that silently lurk that you'll never hear from. Many are probably on your side.

Stay!

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 03:44:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Yeah, figures
Message:
Of course. What else should we expect from a premie who's mistakenly let his mouth get a little carried away and has admitted that Maharaji's a pompous, arrogant fact cat without the character to even once admit he's wrong about anything?

Too bad. I was looking forward to your next move.

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Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 00:38:37 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: duh
Message:
Jeeze dog, you aint too smart.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:55:01 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Hook line and sinker
Message:
What comedy,
Orlando YOU took bait long ago and cant see the hook
in your brain so you dont think you have one in there.

But you do.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 20:29:12 (EDT)
From: The horrible Nigel
Email: Nigel@redcrwo.demon.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: I was just beginning to warm to you, too...
Message:
You premies are so cute when you get talking to each other.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:05:16 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Re: advice for URL, Barbara, Deputy Dog
Message:
'What we have left are the more agressive 'hard core' exes who want to 'bring down M.'

Flattery my dear chap, flattery will get you nowhere. What this does show is that premies are no different to anyone else. The knowledge does not transform them, nor does it prevent them from becoming angry, depressed or prey to any other negative emotion.

If you stop watching the videos and soaking up the hype, you'd soon see that the whole trip of Maharaji is just a bunch of hype and nothing more.

Sure there is meditation. Sometimes it can work for some people and sometimes it can give them a headache. What's the big deal about that? Maharaji runs a cult. That's the reality.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:23:49 (EDT)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: to Sir Dave
Message:
If all this meditation stuff is not such a big deal, then why waste YOUR time arguing so much about it?
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:08:21 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Counter advice for Premies who post here
Message:
Yeah Orlando, I agree with some of what you say. The arguments between premies and exes have started to consistently remind me of Jerry Springer or 'wrestling' WWF style.

But I still see some point to it, I just don't think it covers enough of the bases- I don't think it does as much as it's supposed to. It's become habitual.

But something you're missing is how much it's become habitual for the premies who are here.

I mean, look at Shp. The guy said he was leaving a couple times at least. But post and post again. Look at some of these guys. They are addicted, and more than me, that's for sure. Catweisel is another.

Why does it work this way? The ex-premie sites are still freer than anything that Rawatt has any association with. There are still more opportunities to express yourself on ex-premie sites than on premie sites.

I don't agree with everything that goes on around here. I think it's unhealthy that the ONLY place where premies and exes discuss or argue is such heated battleground.

But I also don't think that an ex-premie/premie dialog is way up there on the priorities list. You guys are here trying to post. Pro-Rawatt sites simply will not and do not post anything critical at all.

But you are right, people have left who don't like the violence of the verbiosity. And I wouldn't give the forum scene a total bill of health as far freedom of expression. There is a politically correct agenda at work.

But there's also a consensual disgust for Rawatt.

And it still is a place where expression is allowed and to some extent encouraged. If premies started a chat or forum which encouraged or even allowed exes to post with some degree of freedom and posted guidelines, I'd bet that exes would participate as they do on David Lane's forums, for example.

But this is a service which premies can take advantage of. And that's the real 'I told you so' of the story.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 19:53:10 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here
Message:
Runamuk,

Has something happened to you? You don't sound like a dumb jack-off.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:43:41 (EDT)
From: Shp, taking a stretch, still in the bleachers
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here
Message:
'I mean, look at Shp. The guy said he was leaving a couple times at least. But post and post
again. Look at some of these guys. They are addicted, and more than me, that's for sure.'
-Runamok

'But this is a service which premies can take advantage of. And that's the real 'I told you so' of the story.'
-also Runamok

What is the crime of leaving and returning? What is the crime of changing one's mind and changing one's course if that is how the spirit moves a person? I have acquired an appreciation for this place where I can dialog with people who left Maharaji, who know about Knowledge and the background.
Where else on earth can I do that? I don't agree with everything here, but there is a core of experience and feelings and people here that I dig and feel for (gmom in particular) that is making me take another look at my whole life. This is not a pastime for me, nor is it a missionary trip. I am here for me, to better myself so I can be better to and for others. (Better = capable of more love)

If this site was a sales organization (which it is...besides helping and supporting ex-premies, you are selling your ideas and concepts, no money involved - it's sales and service), you'd be asked to go out back and break up boxes for the recycling truck or someting. Just because you don't have the communication skills to deal with certain premies and others who come here (some repeatedly after saying they aren't) looking for something, please either have patience or steer clear and send over another one of your representatiives who has more compassion and patience to sort thngs out.

OK, I did the 'James Brown' thing a few times - said I was leaving and came on back. So what?
Problem is you don't realize why. I am not here to crash your party or purposely disrupt in in any way. Thank you for your time. Back to the bleachers.

Shp

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 07:19:28 (EDT)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Counter advice for Premies who post here
Message:
i agree with what you wrote. some people do get addicted too (i guess i am - but then again i can't help watching Springer too, even though he makes me sick). Maybe i shouln't write this but here goes: The type of arguments and 'low class controversies' (i think that posting Marylin's letter is one of those ) does not even help your own purpose. I am pretty sure that any 'outsider' (like Jim likes them), ie: reporter would not be impressed by this mud slinging. It takes a lot of the credibility away and defeats your own purpose.
When you write 'You guys are here trying to post. Pro-Rawatt sites simply will not and do not post anything critical at all. ' In a way, this is true too, but it is not the purpose of these official sites to encourage debate. It is like this for ANY official site on the Internet (does Microsoft allow debate about it's products? some people would have a field day!) But i could start my own debate site tomorrow and nobody (meaning no official from EV) could stop me; what would happen? same thing than here! the Ex would find out about it and go there and try to duke it out with the premies. Know what (this is my theory): i think that premies do not necessarily NEED TO POST as much as they REALLY want to argue. We have very strong convictions and for TOO LONG we have not talked about it. This is an opportunity for us (not a very constructive one) to reaffirm these convictions. For the many exes, arguing with premies is some kind of therapy: they tell premies what they would really want to tell M.
Anyways, i know that 'i am a guess here'. I will not overextend my welcome.
(i think that you are one of those sensible ex i was talking about)
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:05:04 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: What motivates Maharaji? MONEY!
Message:
When you write 'You guys are here trying to post. Pro-Rawatt sites simply will not and do not post anything critical at all. ' In a way, this is true too, but it is not the purpose of these official sites to encourage debate. It is like this for ANY official site on the Internet (does Microsoft allow debate about it's products? some people would have a field day!)

Well, Microsoft is a partner in the MSNBC site and at MSNBC they do report negative things about Microsoft products like having a bug or having a security breach. This hopefully is balanced reporting and hopefully, but not entirely likely, Microsoft does not abuse its position.

Please understand that pro-Rawat websites have an intended commercial purpose which is to increase the sales of the product. No way will they allow any negative information to be posted. They have a clear agenda to sell more product for the purpose of increasing shareholder wealth. It's your basic Finance 101 and Marketing 101.

At the anti-Maharaji websites we present another view stating that we believe that the product is defective and bogus. Note that ex-premies have no financial incentive to spend so much of their time on presenting the other side of the story. Where as Maharaji & Company are fully vested and very motivated by the monetary rewards of the selling of god realization.

The Forum is a good example of the power of free speech and the free market in action.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:23:30 (EDT)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: As usual, you have missed my point entirely (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:50:44 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 22:56:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: An honest, sincere question
Message:
All this talk about Marolyn's got me wondering. Does anyone know the name(s) of whatever lover(s) she's fucked around with during her marriage to the Lord of the Universe? You know, I ask this with great respect because, well, yesterday I posted something about her fucking around with some guy while she was taking classes at Pepperdine. But then it occurred to me that I didn't really know, like this was just some rumour I'd heard about from a few people here. And then I thought, 'God, Jim, how utterly disrespectful!'. You know? Like here's this fancy, rich woman and stuff, dressing all purty and getting in them picture books we used to get, you know? And she's real important and everything cuz she's married to a real big guy and everything. And I'm just going on talking about her fucking around on him as if even she didn't think he was really God or nothing. And that's not really nice or nothing, is it?

So, is there anyone out there who can actually fill in some of the details about Marolyn's love life? How rude to get it all wrong, you know?

And, by the way, while we're being honest and everything, is there a single male out there who didn't think about fucking her at least once when she married that fat, little greasy runt with the smug 'look-what-I-got' expression on his face? Any ex ashram premies who couldn't help but wonder about the carnal world they'd left behind when they saw bold, colour close-ups of her fulsome cleavage dancing in slow motion in movies like The Power of Love or Family of Love? Because, again, it would be most disrespectful to keep this all secret, you know? Like as if Maharaji doesn't know everything anyway, you know?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:03:51 (EDT)
From: Not Me
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: An honest, sincere question
Message:
And, by the way, while we're being honest and everything, is there a single male out there who didn't think about f***ing her at least once...

Eee-gads, this makes feel so creepy to even think about this, but not me! No, not me, not me, not me.

And it makes me feel even worse when I say this:

It's not that I didn't maybe, almost, possibly think about it. And if I ever did think about it I would remember Holy Name or think about having to kiss my cold dead grandma in her casket. Sheesh, even after the plane crash and all.

Finally, I'm not gay or nuthin' like that, but I've got this foot fetish thing in me that keeps fester like a bad bunion.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:00:00 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: For all who have been abused
Message:

And there's many ways in which humans abuse other humans; here's something I wrote some years ago called Love Lies Bleeding
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:06:19 (EDT)
From: Waiting for the Dawn
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: For all who have been abused
Message:
Thank you Sir Dave.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:02:47 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Nice, but...
Message:
Where's the gratitude, the tugging at the heart strings, the longing, the smiling at me through the video monitor?
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:24:47 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
In reading all this HOT stuff hitting the Forum as a result of J-M's posting of THE LETTER, it has occurred to me that there is clear purpose and intent from parties on both sides of the issue to get their points across.

It should be obvious by the very presence and subject of this Forum that most ex-premies do not particularly like Maharaji and wish to shine a bright light under his big fat belly as HE slithers along on a trail of his own slime. (How do I feel about Maharaji?)

Ok, the ex-premies on the Forum can get downright nasty. I'm guilty. But, some of us are simply angry at the crap we went through as presented and pushed down our throats by Maharaji.

Certainly the Forum should be a kinder and gentler place. However, I personally feel that one of the purposes is to reveal as much truth about Maharaji as we can so that others (ex-premies, premies, aspirants, general public, the press, etc.) can see another side of Maharaji other than www.maharaji.org. Yes, the tone of the Forum can be pretty tough, but we are talking about some nasty things perpetuated by Maharaji and his minions. Because of that the cult apologists come here and try spin doctor the allegations away which evokes a strong reaction in some of us (not me!)

The cult apologists are pretty good with their tools as we are as well. They come in with their:

sacred most important thing in the universe holy breath experience satsang
get a life
grow up
you're living in the past
you're living in a cesspool
righteous indignation

These premies might be on the hardcore of the spectrum, who knows? Most likely these characters will never give up Maharaji even if he killed babies. However, there might be more reasonable premies that are not so attached to the old commandment of Never Leave Room For Doubt and would like to know and understand more about their Master. And once they understand about their Master maybe they can begin to get free of HIM.

Yes, it can be ugly. Fact of the matter is these people are in a cult and the cult thrives on brainwashing and propaganda. What would you call attending satsang every night of the week or repeated viewing of mind numbing videos in the modern World of Knowledge (a few years ago at one of the Long Beachs or Miami the theme was 'Welcome to the World of Knowledge'.)

There's more to Maharaji than what HE is willing to tell you and you can get it here and now! And it ain't gonna be pretty! So grow up, get over it, and get used to it.

Finally, now appears to be a pretty good time for a shameless plug and remind everyone of The Standard Maharajia Apologia as posted on Roger's House of Maharaji Drek.

In particular the following apologia seems appropriate:

1. Maharaji never did x. You're lying, making it up, someone's tricked you or you're just mistaken. Maybe someone else did x in Maharaji's name but he certainly had nothing to do with it.

7. Even if Maharaji made some mistakes he doesn't owe you or anyone an explanation. Who do you think you are, anyway?

9. Maybe Maharaji WILL answer you if you ask him nicely. Or maybe if you waited longer.

10. You just can't use your mind to understand the master. That's what makes him a master. Neat eh?

11. Oh yeah, even if Maharaji did or said x, it didn't affect me personally so what do I care?

13. Everyone who criticizes M has something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them, they are simply angry, vindictive people, now part of an anti-Maharaji cult, and therefore you can't believe anything they say;

16. You can't prove anything. What you are saying might not necessarily be true and therefore I don't believe it. Even if M says he is a fradulent scumbag, you can't prove he really said it.

17. Who am I to judge?

21. One doesn't even have to admit that one's defending Maharaji so long as one can find another way of describing one's words.

22. Lila. It's all the play of the Lord (who works in mysterious ways).

23. The Perfect Master is the Perfect Mirror. He reflects your state of mind...so since all you ex-premies are obviously, like, y'know, totally negative, that's how he appears to you...negative.

25. I don't care who he is, even if he's the devil himself, I would follow him straight to hell.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:00:37 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
This little spin vehicle you've painstakenly composed doesn't hide the color of your stripes barney -- though you try as you may to make excuses for your unconscionable disregard for basic decency. You are vidictive to the point where you will abdicate your integrity to satisfy your pettiness. The more you try to make excuses for your buddies' blatently callous actions, the more guilty you look.

You have fallen into the same pit as idiots throughout time who forfeit their humanity for their vendettas. Just stand back and listen to yourself for God sake, 'Spin control & Cult Apologists' or 'Fact of the matter is these people are in a cult and the cult thrives on brainwashing and propaganda.' You sound like a columnist for Pravda! You have stopped thinking for yourself and regurgitate on cue your party's manifesto. And the funny thing is we're the ones you guys accuse of being brainwashed.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:57:14 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Standard Maharajia Apologia #13
Message:
URL,

Rather than use my own words I'll let the words of the Anti-Maharaji Cult committee on standards speak for me:

13. Everyone who criticizes M has something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them, they are simply angry, vindictive people, now part of an anti-Maharaji cult, and therefore you can't believe anything they say;

Link to Standard Maharajia Apologia

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:04:24 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
I will ask of you the same proof you ask of us. Prove beyond any doubt that MJ is GOD, I need 'court legal verifiable proof' Not 'experiences' but absolute verifable proof that would 'stand up in court' otherwise you just have beliefs and opinions and we disagree with them and you don't approve of disagreements. You also tend to stretch our disagreements to 'our problems' of the past. This is the present prove it beyond any doubt. Take us to court and sue us for slander for claiming M is not GOD. Get the IP's from the webmaster with a court order. Forget the rest of this petty bs you drag up. We are slandering the living lord. Prove it. Take me to court for claiming MJ is NOT GOD! What could be more libelous than that?
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 00:52:10 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Careful Ben. Remember Miracle on 34th Street
Message:
Miracle on 34th Street 1947

When a nice old man who claims to Santa Claus (Maharaji) is institutionalized as insane, a young lawyer decides to defend him by arguing in court that he is the real thing.

Complete credited cast:
Maureen O'Hara .... Doris Walker
John Payne (I) .... Fred Gailey
Edmund Gwenn .... Kris Kringle
Gene Lockhart .... Judge Henry X. Harper
Natalie Wood .... Susan Walker
Porter Hall .... Mr. Sawyer
William Frawley .... Charles Halloran
Jerome Cowan .... Thomas Mara
Philip Tonge .... Mr. Shellhammer

Miracle on 34th Street

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 12:16:30 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Careful Ben. Remember Miracle on 34th Street
Message:
But Barney thats the problem you are using one fantasy to future validate another. Just because I belived in Santa or the easter bunny when I was little doen't make them real.Thats the crux of the issue here. These folks have BELIEFS that they present as fact. If you accept the first premise 'M is GOD' all other beliefs about M become true. But it still based on belief. I believe when I turn on a hot water valve I will get hot water. When i touch it I know it is hot. But I can further prove what I know by taking a thermometer and placing it in the water. I can follow a set of scientific principles an prove it. What set of steps prove this fantasy is real and not 'belief'
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:05:55 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Watch what you say about Santa Claus
Message:
Ben,

You're putting me uptight, man. Saying that shit about my man. That movie is based on a true story and Santa Claus has a long lineage that goes way back to the Three Wise Men.

May your Christmas tree dry up and catch on fire!

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 14:48:08 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Watch what you say about Santa Claus
Message:
You sorry sap sucker - placing a curse on me on a saturaday as if I didn't have enough to do today now I got to go find someone to lift the curse.
The 'santa' clause in premiedom is 'Send All New Tithings Asap' because M wants (todays want)
Your are welocome to come to my hous eon Christmas and if santa can get down my chimmney you can have my pisture of M along with a DUO and a DLM coupon book. Otherwise they go up gor auction.
You can believe what you want but remember I have the 'Ben Lurking super decoding browser' (BLSDB) or as M would say 'another Big Lousy Sucker Donated Big'
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:58:20 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
I'd say that the current premies who post here are doing a very bad job at spin doctoring. The hatred and malace which emanates from these premie individuals does their cause no good at all.

They clearly are not experiencing THAT love and their lack of ability to control themselves when in an argument is a clear indication of where the cult has led them to.

It is glaringly obvious to any observer that the real hatred on this forum is coming from the premies who post here and the hard-line premies are completely incapable of reasonable and polite communication which is the norm for most adults.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:02:39 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
It is glaringly obvious to any observer that the real hatred on this forum is coming from the premies who post here and the hard-line premies are completely incapable of reasonable and polite communication such as normal adults are used to.

Why don't you let the observer come to his own conclusions Dave.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:26:19 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: url
Message:
You asked me a question in another thread below.

What year did you start going to satsang?
How many days during the seventies and eighties did you
attend satsang?
Every night for years?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:07:57 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
Whatsamatter oral, feel like putting your fist through a wall? That's exactly what you sound like. I bet you have a real problem controlling your temper because it comes through loud and clear here. You're just as abusive as your cult master.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:49:35 (EDT)
From: THE HIGH TRIBUNAL
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re: Spin Control & Cult Apologists
Message:
After reviewing the arguments presented by both sides here, The Tribunal is persuaded that the evidence strongly suggests misuse of power and coverup exists in the matter of DLM/EV.
So let the premies squeal and the dogs bark--This investigation must continue because, after all, aren't we all seekers of Truth?
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