Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 3
From: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 To: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 Page: 3 Of: 5


Shp -:- Life is passing by -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:54:25 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Hi Shp, the customers are touchy tonight -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 17:32:42 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Time to get out the good stuff and a shot glass -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:45:29 (EDT)
__ gErRy -:- Keith, er, I mean Shp... -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:10:49 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: Keith, er, I mean Shp... -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:45:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ The Baitor -:- Don't look back -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:32:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- The Great Fisher of Men was cool -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:53:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Who wants Shp to stay? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:22:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Probably his mum does (nt). -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:07:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ The Baitor -:- Look again -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:59:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Abner Louima -:- Hey, Quixote take some peyote or something -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:31:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ don Quixote -:- Hey Sancho, what's you got under yer pancho? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:50:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pancho Chingada -:- Re: Hey Sancho, what's you got under yer pancho? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:59:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Look again -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:16:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abner Louima -:- GET REAL FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:36:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- for real....see ya later. -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:57:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Baitor -:- Question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:38:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp's secretary -:- Re: Question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:44:14 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- THE (revised) Letter -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:36:09 (EDT)
__ bb -:- you left out way too much.nt -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:13:39 (EDT)
__ Enough -:- Re: THE (revised) Letter -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:06:18 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- I also did not know the dark side of this -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:10:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- And you still don't (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:21:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Enlighten us, please, JM -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:16:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat? Anything? -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:05:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ 'biggest asshole' -:- More child abuse no doubt. -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 08:55:37 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Thanks Enough! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:22:29 (EDT)
__ Too late for that -:- Re: THE (revised) Letter -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 07:56:04 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- Maharaji, the life threatening illness -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:25:51 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Pity JM? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:06:09 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: THE (revised) Letter -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:55:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- Re: THE (revised) Letter -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:47:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Well now Mr URL -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:17:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Say Dave -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:23:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ barney -:- Misinterpretation of Maharaji's words -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:40:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Misinterpretation of Maharaji's words -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:36:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Whoa, there pa'dner -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:48:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Whoa, there pa'dner - 2 -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:45:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Whoa, there pa'dner - 2 -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:13:42 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Too late: WRONG! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:50:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- And further more -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:46:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: And further more -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:35:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ tabloid -:- URL!!!! -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:48:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- URL the Powder Keg, Waiting to Explode -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:26:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hihomumio -:- Re: URL the Powder Keg, Waiting to Explode -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:51:54 (EDT)

Looks like it's time -:- to fire up the SHEEP CHANNEL! -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:02:51 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Advertising hits this forum -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:49:11 (EDT)

Jethro -:- Happy Birthday -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:10:07 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Re: Happy Birthday -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 17:39:23 (EDT)

Grace -:- Soul Rush -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:01:26 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Soul Rush -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:39:37 (EDT)

barney -:- The Living Master -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 16:24:21 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- The Living Master & challenge to premies -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:49:17 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Re: The Living Master & challenge to premies -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:21:11 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- Re: The Living Master & challenge to premies -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:39:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- There's no argument against this -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:26:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ barney -:- If I had only known this then! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:31:59 (EDT)
__ Grace -:- Re: The Living Master -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:13:20 (EDT)
__ __ Gregg -:- Re: The Living Master: John-Roger -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:27:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: The Living Master: John-Roger -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:58:06 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- 'THE Letter' Part 1 -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 13:03:34 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 13:05:16 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Recipient Wanted Letter Posted -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:15:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: Recipient Wanted Letter Posted -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:59:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Running Barking Dog -:- Barbara, but... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:46:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Barbara, but... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 22:56:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- A different Barbara -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:52:27 (EDT)
__ __ BWS -:- Battered Woman Syndrome -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:14:11 (EDT)
__ __ JB -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 03:51:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 03:44:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- Excellent post! You hit the bull's eye (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:08:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ Black Barking Dog -:- JB, puleeeeze! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:57:22 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Posting is Fine with me -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 00:21:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- Re: Posting is Fine with me -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:55:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- You're ALL off the wall! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 03:51:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- it involves sex right? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:18:47 (EDT)
__ __ Liz -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:01:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- God, Liz, wake up already -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 01:05:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ Liz -:- Breach of Trust -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:04:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Breach of contract! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:12:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: Breach of contract! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:08:08 (EDT)
__ __ Barbara -:- Re: 'THE Letter' -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 21:19:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Care for her friend? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:27:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: Care for her friend? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:23:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Right-use-ness -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:28:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ colorful barney -:- Yes, Barbara sounds intelligent which is something new for premies, but... -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:35:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Care for her friend? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:34:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill burke -:- The lifetime channel, Barbara? -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:58:02 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Since you called me out of this... -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 19:05:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abner Louima -:- Shp, goto the Sheep Channel now! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:16:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ jean-Michel -:- Re: Since you called me out of this... -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:33:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ barney -:- Something else reported to the authorities??? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:27:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ bb -:- third eye wide shut -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 00:09:30 (EDT)
__ __ URL -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 18:54:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ So why did YOU read it, URL... -:- when you knew it was private? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:55:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ black barking dog -:- Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:44:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 07:05:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- karma? -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:49:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ big barking dog -:- Come on, bb. Play along here. -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:09:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Milk Bone -:- Dawgin it -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:11:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ big barking dog -:- St. Bernard Shp, you're full of dog shit! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:32:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:58:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to Jerry -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:13:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ big barking dog -:- Re: Shp's Reply to Jerry -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:42:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You're fucked up -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:37:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill burke -:- fuck you url -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:43:54 (EDT)
__ __ never mind -:- Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2 -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 18:05:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ Roger Embarrassed Drek -:- ***Best of Forum*** for never mind's righteous indignation! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:52:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: ***Best of Forum*** for never mind's righteous indignation! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:06:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- thank you JM. nt -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:40:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ gmom -:- I do not like this letter posted -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:26:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: I do not like this letter posted -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:18:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fuck you, Shp -- attention, gmom -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:34:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger If-The-Ends-Justify-The-Means Drek -:- ***Best of Forum*** -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:50:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- here it all comes gmom, hold on -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:22:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Jim twisting words -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:31:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- SHP question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:45:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: SHP question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:08:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:02:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: question->Rawat -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:24:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: SHP question -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:06:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abner Louima -:- Re: SHP I THINK I'M GOING GET SICK HERE! -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:04:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: I do not like this letter posted -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:30:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: I do not like this letter posted -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 21:46:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Re: I do not like this letter posted -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:37:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ 'biggest asshole' -:- I like the letter posted -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:30:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: I like the letter posted -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:17:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I wish, I wish -:- Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 02:54:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mother's Little Helper -:- Easy on Marolyn. It's a tough life being a housewife. -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:01:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mercy Me! -:- It's always been easy on Marolyn. -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:38:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Here's another invasion of privacy -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:43:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Yellow tabloid journalism -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:20:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Yellow tabloid journalism -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:04:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Yellow tabloid journalism -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:15:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Yellow tabloid journalism -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:14:45 (EDT)


Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:54:25 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: All
Subject: Life is passing by
Message:
I was checking out the expanded view of the threads and noticing how they all go south until they drop off and become an archive or memory. It reminded me that we are all on this 3-D videotape complete with audio and special effects called the material plane and at some point each of us drops off that videotape, leaves this plane.

I want to be engaged in the work of helping and healing and finding common ground for all people who want real peace when I leave this world, and I don't know when that is. So I need to be doing it all the time then. That's why I have hung out here.....

Some people have been wronged, defenseless ones at that and trusting....people who have someting in common with me that is supposed to be the most precious thing in the universe, and it has not been sorted out for years. Excuse me?? I make no apologies, nor do I have any explanations. I feel weird vibes about how the whole thing was and is being handled. Once I got it, I have felt that way ever since.

Great big paradox. I learned (in theory) that Paradox is Illusion, for it is two things. There is only one thing going on in Reality. Relax and gaze through the Paradox into the Reality and it will reveal itself, that's what the directons said on the package. Big Paradox requires big
search, outer and inner simultaneously. And an unflinching gaze.

Anth, I'm givin' 'er evrythin' she's got Cap'n!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 17:32:42 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Hi Shp, the customers are touchy tonight
Message:
Hi Sandy,

Howya doin?

I know what you mean about dropping off the edge. Death is a great leveller. Getting close to it a couple of times, made me realise how little and out of touch the cult view of reality was.

So, as you're out to play, I thought I'd ask a few questions. Feel free to ask me any back. I've got a suspicion about your attitude Sandy, and thought I'd prod a bit. Hope you don't mind.

Are you starting to question Maharaji's 'divinity' and 'Perfect Masterness'? Or a you a premie forever?

Did you read my 'Journey' Sandy Looking back, I think I started leaving the cult about 10 years ago. Do you think you may be leaving it too? Ie, are you becoming an ex-premie?

Do you think I am confused?

Is Maharaji a cult leader?

Take care,

Anth the Nice Cop

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:45:29 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Time to get out the good stuff and a shot glass
Message:
Hi Sandy,

>Hi Anth. (This is starting to feel like Hal and Dave in 2001:space Odyssey.)

Howya doin?

>Breathing and feeling pretty fine.

I know what you mean about dropping off the edge. Death is a great leveller. Getting close to it a couple of times, made me realise how little and out of touch the cult view of reality was.

>Is that so?

So, as you're out to play, I thought I'd ask a few questions. Feel free to ask me any back. I've got a suspicion about your attitude Sandy, and thought I'd prod a bit. Hope you don't mind.

>The term 'prod' makes me nervous and want to find a wall to stand against. Can we just move on to the the questions please...?

Are you starting to question Maharaji's 'divinity' and 'Perfect Masterness'? Or a you a premie forever?

>I am going through some changes which involve my relationship with Maharaji. I don't feel the same way about him as I did before I heard about gmom and Jagdeo. Most of the other stuff I could somehow understand, or at least not get hung up on for the moment. On a scale of one to ten, you know, some guy allegedly getting ripped off, or alleged private infidelities and gold bathroom fixtures don't even move my needle compared to child molestation by a 'great soul'. I am not prepared to go beyond that right now, not because I am holding back, but because I am still feeling the vibe. Forever is now. If a premie simply a lover of truth, I am a premie forever.

Did you read my 'Journey'

>Yes. Twice, awhile ago. That event on the step with one shoe on in the rain was someting I could relate to. I was impressed how up close and personal you were with the family and the kids and how you can articulate your feelings here peacefully. Your buddies here could learn alot from you in that respect. I could also relate to the snippets about bad low vibes passing between folks at programs in the lobby,etc. Your original journey to the east, getting sick and getting shipped home was a dream of mine I never did. Thanks for being such a good storyteller.

Sandy Looking back, I think I started leaving the cult about 10 years ago. Do you think you may be leaving it too?

>I am not ready to discuss that with anyone yet. It's very personal.
You will be one of the first to know if there is anything to share on this subject.

Ie, are you becoming an ex-premie?

>I am awakening and striving to become more receptive to my human potential and the love of my Creator, hopefully more each day. Wherever that wants to take me is where I want to go.

Do you think I am confused?

>No, not from what you have shown me of yourself.

Is Maharaji a cult leader?

>That is a matter of opinion. You need to start it with 'Do you think....'
Cult is just a word with alot of interpretations and stuff crusted on it. What is your real question?

You take care too, Nice Cop Anth

just Shp

PS Right before you gave me this quiz, I was about to take a break. Not copping out or running away.
Just going back and sitting in the back of the bleachers for awhile since I got a number of personal invitations in big colorful letters and lots of sexy words on them, like 'fuck'. Couldn't refuse.
e-mail me if you want to chat.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:10:49 (EDT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Keith, er, I mean Shp...
Message:
What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, mush brain, I don't capiche a word you're saying. If you are truly trying to communicate, would you please explain yourself?

Thanks and give me some 'meat' for the Sheep Channel, would ya? I lost the Fully Mature Ram Satsang

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:45:23 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Re: Keith, er, I mean Shp...
Message:
What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, mush brain, I don't capiche a word you're saying. If you are truly trying to communicate, would you please explain yourself?

>Pleae be specific.

Thanks and give me some 'meat' for the Sheep Channel, would ya? I lost the Fully Mature Ram Satsang

>You bait hooks worse than Jim.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:32:27 (EDT)
From: The Baitor
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Don't look back
Message:
You're not being baited. Everybody's quite open how they feel about you. Why don't you do like Jesus suggested to his apostles and dust off your sandals and never look back at this 'town' that mocks and won't accept you? You do believe in Jesus, don't you? You do believe he was a wise and holy man, right? Do as he says.

Now, THAT's bait.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:53:37 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: The Baitor
Subject: The Great Fisher of Men was cool
Message:
That's not bait, that's shallow understanding.

In this town of Forumville are many households which have not asked me to leave. If you don't want to have any business with me, we can very easily arrange that. Don't post to me and I won't post to you. As long as I know who you are, I can do that. I will gladly leave the dust of my sandals at your door as I leave. Then no problem, I hope. That will free up both of us to spend time with those where the respect, if not the opinions, is mutual.

Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:22:54 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Who wants Shp to stay?
Message:
In this town of Forumville are many households which have not asked me to leave.

Is there anyone out there who actually wants this guy here?

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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 16:07:51 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Probably his mum does (nt).
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:59:28 (EDT)
From: The Baitor
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Look again
Message:
In this town of Forumville are many households which have not asked me to leave.

Yeah, but they haven't exactly asked you to stay, either, have they? And who is it that has shown you respect for anything you've said? Can you name one person? There are many ways of letting a person know that he's not welcome. Outright asking him to leave is just one method.

You're a premie. A diehard one. While premies such as yourself are tolerated, I'd hardly say that you are welcomed here.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:31:49 (EDT)
From: Abner Louima
Email: None
To: The Baitor
Subject: Hey, Quixote take some peyote or something
Message:
Damn, I wish I was still sheriff in this town. I'd pack those sandals of yours where the sun don't shine and send you down the soap rope trail.

Come on, shp, tell us how you got all this free time to bug the shit out of us with all your crap ass satsang and Have a Good Day thoughtfullness. Did you get fired as Assistant Night Manager at the 7-11 because the drunk customers insisted on it?

Enough is enough. You don't know when to stop. You are on your damn mission to bolster your ego as the big saint and saviour of us lost souls on the Forum. And it is very transparent to so many of us. You need to wake up and understand what YOU ARE REALLY DOING HERE!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:50:23 (EDT)
From: don Quixote
Email: None
To: Barney
Subject: Hey Sancho, what's you got under yer pancho?
Message:
Barney,

What I am here for does not require me to post. So I will observe from time to time to accomplish my own personal search, which is to find out what happens with the Jagdeo affair and all concerned. This is not from idle curiosity, but will affect my future as well. I will also be looking in other places for answers as my conscience dictates.

I just happen to be an amiable extrovert type and like to converse with people and share experiences and information. It makes me smarter. I had no devious motives, just nautral human stuff.

As for my livlihood, I am doing quite well in some freelance pursuits helping the environment and
people getting familiar with the internet and how to use it.

Later,
Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:59:21 (EDT)
From: Pancho Chingada
Email: None
To: don Quixote
Subject: Re: Hey Sancho, what's you got under yer pancho?
Message:
You might think that what is under my pancho is a billy club, butt I'm just happy to see you!
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:16:41 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: The Baitor
Subject: Re: Look again
Message:
I will keep what you have said in mind.
How do you define 'diehard'?
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:36:36 (EDT)
From: Abner Louima
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: GET REAL FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!
Message:
Shp!

I will keep what you have said in mind.
How do you define 'diehard'?

I hope that you are kidding here. You cannot be serious. Please, please tell me it's a joke.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:57:04 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Barney
Subject: for real....see ya later.
Message:
If (real big if) I commited my life to something or someone and later found out that it was not what I had been led to believe it was, and was, in fact antithetical to my original search and I had been fooled, I'd have no trouble walking. Been there and done that.
I am a diehard soul heading for the light of God's love, whatever it takes.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:38:14 (EDT)
From: Baitor
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Question
Message:
I am a diehard soul heading for the light of God's love, whatever it takes.

Have you found such a light through Maharaji?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:44:14 (EDT)
From: Shp's secretary
Email: None
To: Baitor
Subject: Re: Question
Message:
Shp is not available for comment.
By popular demand, he is on hiatus.
Please come back later.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:36:09 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: THE (revised) Letter
Message:
Here is a little exercise I've done for some of you: take out the emotional BS, and see what's left!

+++++++++++++

Dear ______,
When I first opened your letter and I saw your name I felt a dual response in me. I felt happy it was from you and at the same time a slight feeling of fear that you were here in town and I would not and could not handle the drama, situation, circumstances surrounding you in your life.
.........
First of all, dear ______, I too have such sweet feelings for you. [several personal messages omitted here] I receive many, many reports, requests, etc. from people. I would go crazy trying to fix, advise or become involved and part of the myriad of changing situations in their lives. The couple of times that you have written to me, I did not respond in a written letter - but I sent you my best thoughts, my best wishes, hoping everything would go well for you, [omit personal message].
May I please express to you an apology for the 'rude' response you received when you called last December. I have no idea who answered the telephone.
..........
You know when you got on the subject of premies, etc. Remember this - a premie is a lover - a lover of love - a lover of Knowledge - a lover of the living Master. Just because a person has received the techniques of Knowledge doesn't mean that they are manifesting as a true lover/premie. This thing called Mind is outrageous. The Heart cries for attention, the mind will abandon. Maharaji spends his life/time reminding those who truly want to hear about the heart. 'Premies' (i.e. those who have received the techniques) are often the cruelest offenders - abandoning - rejecting the Heart's cry (desire) - and that is not a PREMIE - a LOVER. And yet the Master does not shut the door on anyone.
__________, I don't know if M set Dr. Horton up in the office with Dr. Edel. Most likely he wanted a good facility for those he cares about. And Dr. Horton put himself in place. However, _________, this is confidential again, M is very displeased with John for reasons that I know, and also, for reasons that I don't know. I am also very mad (upset) with John for an incident that I cant go into detail right now. So when you expressed your feelings of hurt and frustration I could read you loud and clear. But I also know that these feelings that come to me are not my Reality. I know what is Real. I love what is Real. To me John is in the sea of problems and I don't want to engage myself there.
..........
Your letter has affected me deeply and I feel upset but I can only only pray to once again [illegible word] enjoy the Joy within.) I know I don't want that in my life........bla bla bla
..........
So, __________, when I told you in the car ride [personal detail omitted] that I would help you if I could, I really don't know what I can do. But I will always wish you well - always hope you enjoy the most precious gift of life. Hard blows come and go - I try to stay clear. I try to avoid anything - person, place or thing that may (potentially) grab me and suck me into a space that I do not want to be....bla bla bla....
.........
__________, I appreciate that you felt you could express your feelings to me. I don't know what I can do. All I can say is .... Hang on. You have what it takes. I wish there was more I could do. I send you my love and very best wishes.
JAI! SAT CHIT ANAND
MLR
.........
*One last thing before I end this. I have learned that I cannot judge Maharaji by the people who have received Knowledge and do not practice. Knowledge works! If we don't practice, in my view, we are the biggest fools, the biggest idiots on earth. I want to get graphic and say the biggest assholes alive! I'm sure that you know this....bla bla bla
.........

+++++++++++++++++++++++

What would you think of a person you love giving you such an answer to a serious problem?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:13:39 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: you left out way too much.nt
Message:
ghjs
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:06:18 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: THE (revised) Letter
Message:
It's interesting. As I was reading the letter below, I originally found myself being 'satsanged' but then when I read on and discovered that it concerned an obviously serious situation re. Dr. John it hit me. This letter is just crisis management, i.e. trust that He loves you and let's move on in our lives.

Seeing how DLM/EV is currently handling the Jageo situation to me is proof. I'm glad I read this.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:10:11 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: I also did not know the dark side of this
Message:
Having read the letter the first time it came around and this time, I must say that I, too, thought that posting it was a little nasty and that the content was mostly satsang as expected.

However, it appears that there is something much darker and sinister going on. I don't need to know the details if they are not to be divulged.

Knowing that there is something bad going on that is somehow connected to Maharaji or his minions is another damning indictment on his empire.

Something's going on in L.A.!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:21:03 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: And you still don't (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:16:35 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JM
Subject: Enlighten us, please, JM
Message:
I think the story of this incident or what ever it is, should come into the full light of day. I think this much is owed to the people who dedicated years and years of their lives to the Master of Deception.

And also it is owed to those still in his clutches and those who may, in the future, fall prey to his seductions.

Why hide it? We earned the truth and nothing should be left in the dark to fester. How 'bout it, Jean-Michel?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:05:35 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Rawat? Anything?
Message:
I think I've told it somewhere already: the issue involves that person's family, including young children.
It's been reported to authorities in due time.

The Rawats know about it, and I guess they can understand that this story is not going to evaporate.
What might change something is when they'll show that they have a policy to avoid this, and that they really care for people around them.
They are the one to do something to avoid that sort of things to be repeated again and again, they have every mean to do so. If they don't know how to do this, they should seek advice outside the cult. There are ways to avoid that sort of stuff in organizations, and there are good ways to handle that sort of stuff in case it still happens: not by giving satsang.

Rawat? Anything to say?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 08:55:37 (EDT)
From: 'biggest asshole'
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: More child abuse no doubt.
Message:
Those that had the ultimate lord, the ultimate knowledge,
the ultimate circumstance, the close proximity to him and
darshan on a daily basis and invites to 'inner' circle
events, dont show any great heavenly attributes or
any evidence of actual out of body wonderland experience.

Dr John has been with the lord for close to thirty years
and what has it got him?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:22:29 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Thanks Enough!
Message:
You're exactly at my point.

This is to show how Rawat EV DLM manages problems. And that was just another document to illustrate the Jagdeo issue. You can't expect anything else from these creeps, as disturbing as it sounds.

I've seen this on other occasions. Too many of them. And I hope other victims will manifest, they'll find support here at least.

I'm very sorry, but these are the facts, this is how the guru and his wife behave.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 07:56:04 (EDT)
From: Too late for that
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: THE (revised) Letter
Message:
Maybe you deserve pity...maybe one day you will go through a life threatening illness and feel the head space one goes through as one recovers. You think doing your 'little exercise' excuses the original publishing of the letter? You think 'one good breach of trust deserves another?'.

Asshole...go back to your research of who-the-hell-knows-what...get a shrink and get a life.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:25:51 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Too late for that
Subject: Maharaji, the life threatening illness
Message:
maybe one day you will go through a life threatening illness and feel the head space one goes through as one recovers.

At this point in time, I am grateful to be alive having escaped from the life threatening illness given to me by Maharaji. Trying to live my life in this world and having Maharaji's stunted philosophy poured into my head on a nightly basis made me rather suicidal.

Don't go to college
Forget about getting a career
Don't bother saving for the future
Forsake your friends and family
Don't fall in love
Dedicate your life to Maharaji completely
Good things happen because of Maharaji's grace
Bad things happen because you are not surrendered

All of that and more really fucked up my head. I made some really irresponsible decisions based on the belief that nothing in this world mattered except for Maharaji and my breath. (The accept responsibility folks can chime in now.)

And, you know, some people actually did kill themselves because they could not reconcile their natural resistance and rejection of Maharaji's stunted philosophy. Now, that is a life threatening illness to the first degree.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:06:09 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Too late for that
Subject: Pity JM?
Message:
Yes, it is sad. Here, this poor woman is recovering from a life threatening injury, and all she can do is marvel that she's still alive and breathing, and thank Maharaji for revealing this sacred truth to her. That is what he does, right? Isn't that what everybody's excited about these days, that the Big M is a helpful reminder that human beings breathe? What a guy.

Here, she can hardly hold the pen still, and she's writing this lengthy satsang that isn't doing her friend an ounce of good. Maybe Marolyn got something out of it. I suppose she did. It probably helped her deal with her trauma. But I do think it's sad that the only way she could think of to do that was to fall back on satsang. It's very sad when the only place you can find reassurance is in a cult. That's REAL sad. Marolyn should be pitied, not JM. He's free from the cult. She's still little girl lost in it.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:55:54 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Too late for that
Subject: Re: THE (revised) Letter
Message:
On the scale of 1-10, I'd say your hate quotent is about 8 and Jean-Michel's is negligable. Why are you spewing hate over something which doesn't affect you? Are you feeling sorry for Marolyn? I'm sure she has Maharaji's grace looking after her. Hasn't she?

Anyway, I'll repeat again what I wrote below because ex-premies certainly do have a reason to be angry at Maharaji and his wife. The recipient of the letter has reason to be angry but then so do many more people.

It was an invasion of privacy to be told by Rawat to cease all personal relationships and love him solely, because he was the living Lord. It was a massive intrusion into the personal lives of many people who gave up relationships with their husbands/wives, boyfriends/girlfriends and children to live a sterile life and literally blow their whole lives, all for a selfish, pompous liar, who now hasn't got the guts to admit that he made a mortal error in messing around with the lives of thousands of young people.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:47:38 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: THE (revised) Letter
Message:
HEY YOU IRRESPONSIBLE LITTLE JERK, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WANTED SOMETHING MORE THAN THE STATUS QUO. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE A DECISION TO RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE AND TO FOLLOW HIS TEACHINGS. AND YOU ARE ALSO THE ONE TO INTERPRET HIS WORDS HOW EVER THE FUCK YOU WANTED TO. AND NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE INTRUSION OF PRIVACY CONDONED BY THE RECEIVER OF MAROLYN'S LETTER, OR THE PUBLISHER OF THIS LETTER ON THIS FORUM.

SO YOU PITIFUL EXCUSE FOR A MAN,

STOP YOUR WHINING AND SNIVELLING AND GROW THE FUCK UP!!!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:17:06 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Well now Mr URL
Message:
Think about this - would I listen to a person such as yourself who writes personally with such hatred and venom. I think not for you have very little understanding of what is being said here and therefore there is no communication with you.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:23:21 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Say Dave
Message:
Dave, I know you are a simple and sensitive man -- and that's admirable in this world of unbridled machismo. And I don't mean to be harse on a gentle soul like yourself. But you really have to stop whining about the decisions you made in your life regarding Knowledge and start being a little more accountable. That's all.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:40:21 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Misinterpretation of Maharaji's words
Message:
AND YOU ARE ALSO THE ONE TO INTERPRET HIS WORDS HOW EVER THE FUCK YOU WANTED TO.

Indeed. Jean-Michel's misinterpretation of Maharaji's words was his own fault. I don't know how J-M twisted something so simple and beautiful into believing that Mr. Rawat was the Lord of the Universe demanding complete and total surrender and exclusive devotion for his entire life in return for That beautiful experience inside, That breath.

What a damn fool! Certainly an isolated incident and no one else ever had this problem.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 18:36:55 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Misinterpretation of Maharaji's words
Message:
You know, it's a funny thing but I once had a similar problem but I've been too embarassed to talk about until now. You see, when Maharaji said,

'Many times I have come before but this time I have come with more power than ever before' and 'God has manifested Himself and if He had manifested after one year it would have been too late, too late', you'll never believe it but I thought he was refering to himself as being an incarnation of God. Silly me.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:48:38 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Lost sheep URL
Subject: Whoa, there pa'dner
Message:
Ever hear this one?

The Lord of the Universe has come to us this day.
The Lord of the Universe has come to us this day.

And he's come to show us the light.
And he's come to show us the love.
And he's come to show us the way...

BACK TO OUR FATHER!

What was that all about, URL? More 'Indian Culture' I suppose, huh?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:45:21 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Whoa, there pa'dner - 2
Message:
gerry,

You're right, it IS more Indian culture. Ever hear of 'cultural hypnosis?' It's what makes you think that what you do is normal and what the guy from Borneo does is weird.

What would someone from rural India think if he was taken to a Super Bowl game or the World Cup final. I'm sure he would feel that he had stumbled into some bizzare cult. People have actually committed suicide when their team lost the World Cup final. I find that amazing.

People in India have been bragging that they are one with God for years, it's culturally accepted there. If we had done that in monotheistic Europe or in Muslim countries we would have been burned at the stake or hanged.

There are about a billion people in India and if you believe in democracy their culture would out-vote us. So are we right and they are wrong?

If you don't want to take advantage of Knowledge and if you think it's crap, that's your choice. Go for whatever you want to go for. If sex or money interests you more, fine go for them. If I say Knowledge interests me more (not that there isn't a part in my life for sex and money), would you be willing to grant me the same right?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 21:13:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Whoa, there pa'dner - 2
Message:
Howdy Deputy Dawg,

I do understand the cultural angle. And to answer your question, I think it's fine for you to enjoy Knowledge. But why are the strings of 'keeping in touch' attached? And why the secrecy of the techniques? And why the avoidance of press and the past?

I have an avid interest in consciousness. I do believe there is more to us than meets the eye, that is, a definite non-material aspect to human existence. But I think M is leading people astry fr his personal enrichment. Also, it appears that association with M and K has been detrimental to a lot of people. And perhaps, good for some. But the harm done does not outweight the good.

People should have access to both sides of the story. Personally I think getting involved with M and K retards 'spiritual' progress. Aspirants should be warned.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:50:02 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Too late for that
Subject: Too late: WRONG!
Message:
Believe it or not, I've been through almost the same illness as Marolyn went through, whilst I was in the ashram in 1980. I survived, and I'm perfectly OK. Premies who know me know all the story. I survived something usually lethal, thanks to the brain surgeon, and not Rawat who didn't do a thing at that time.

Not that many premies gave me support at that time, specially whilst I was in hospital. I must admit that I've been very well treated AFTER, when I came back to the ashram. They had a special room for me in the best place, I attended a lot of k sessions and k reviews, and some good hearted premies helped me a lot, I'll remember them all my life. But I didn't get much attention from the responsibles at that time - even though I was a member of DLM's board at that time. Not that I wanted that, I just found it a bit strange. It was just a bit too confronting for them I guess. Some came though and visit me, and we had a good time.

You can't imagine what I felt when I heard she got that, I was still involved at that time. And I saw her a few month after that in Santyogashram, specially during Holi. I was also in the back, trying to avoid being too wet. I could perfectly understand what she was going through, because I did a few years before!

And believe me, this is NO excuse for treating a friend like this. I would say on the contrary: when you go through such a painful experience like this, and when you survive, it gives you a lot of understanding (the real one) and compassion.

It did for me, and as far as I know, it's been the same for the people I know and who've survived that sort of thing. When you've physically suffered a lot, it enables you to understand other people's suffering much better - because you can share their pain from your own understanding and past experience.

My opinion is that Marolyn doesn't have much compassion. Nor does Mr Rawat. And I can tell you why, it's so obvious, she's so transparent. To a point this is monstrous.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:46:03 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: And further more
Message:
Going through such a painful illness is very much an eye opening experience, unless you're psychologically damaged, which I think is the case with Marolyn. Not because of her illness, but because of abuse from her husband.

I can say this, because I've been through this (illness - abuse from your ashram mates, and abuse from your partner). I guess some people can also see through all this BS, because they've completely recovered from the cult damage.

I'll tell you what happened to me whilst I was in hospital for a month: most of my belongings (I didn't have that much left since I was an ashram premie) was stolen by some of my ashram mates and 'friends', including a few important souvenirs from my deceased father. That's been VERY painful. Not only loosing these few belongings, but realising I was living with creeps pretending to be full of love, when they were not even able to face me when I was sick!
I finally understood all this after I recovered from the illness and surgery, and found that I had nothing to do anymore in that bongo's house.
(I must say that some of these guys were really good persons I still love).
But that was also very painful because I was still believing in Rawat as a valid guru. I went through lots of turmoils.
And I finally came back to the fold a few years later, when DLM was supposedly dissolved and things supposedly 'changed'. Only to discover again that that was still the same story. And I left for good.

There is nothing to gain sticking with Rawat: you'll loose everything anyway. Better leave soon!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:35:58 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: And further more
Message:
You are a vindictive and twisted little prick JM. Any claim to high ground you so nobly profess to occupy is null and void. I'll gladly 'stick with Rawat' as you say if for no other reason so that it keeps me from having to comiserate with scum-buckets like you. Fuck off and crawl back into your dank little cesspool where you belong!

And I'd like to also extend the same warmth to all your many supporters and fellow integrity challenged misfits.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:48:23 (EDT)
From: tabloid
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: URL!!!!
Message:
?

And Marolyn had to actually ban her from the residence
because it bothered her so much and STILL the affair
goes on.

Is there always some excuse for him because he
calls himself -living master- and so he can touch the
whore without getting muddy like the lotus?

What about Marolyn?
Selfishness rules the lord and the rest have to just accept?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:26:05 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: URL the Powder Keg, Waiting to Explode
Message:
Anyone in your family -- partners, siblings, children, ever tell you that you were abusive, emotionally or physically? I'd take it seriously. You need to control your temper. I'd say you were on the receiving end of lots of abuse by your own parents, just like you suggested. Take it somewhere else.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 13:51:54 (EDT)
From: Hihomumio
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Re: URL the Powder Keg, Waiting to Explode
Message:
Know it all-

You've said a mouthful here. URL's behavior has been getting increasingly nasty and hostile. I agree with you one hundred percent about him needing to control his temper.

URL, you should think seriously about moving on. Your outbursts indicate that you are way too overwrought to provide yourself or us with any kind of useful communication. Have you forgotten that this site is for EX premies? There is nothing you can say here that will change how exes see Maharaji's world and the way you react here will not convince aspirants or wavering premies to stay on the path. You are too angry-no one will listen.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:02:51 (EDT)
From: Looks like it's time
Email: None
To: All
Subject: to fire up the SHEEP CHANNEL!
Message:
He's won a place in our hearts with his cult apologies, his dissembling, his shocking cognitive dissonance and his general inanity. For those of you who appreciate the teaching of chairman shp I (re) present the Sheep Channel!
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:49:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Looks like it's time
Subject: Advertising hits this forum
Message:


I use RightLord deodorant because it always gets rid of those nasty odours. Spray it on today and cover up those bad smelling lies with a sweet fragrance.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:10:07 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Raja Ji
Subject: Happy Birthday
Message:
Happy birthday to Dharma Pal Singh Rowatt(aka Raja Ji)....
now Dharma Pal means 'protector of The Truth',,,so how about setting us all straight and tell us where we went wrong.

I seem to remember that you did at one time have some balls.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 17:39:23 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday
Message:
Hi Jeth'

I met Raja Ji a few times. I always liked him and had a suspicion he wasn't always comfortable with what was being laid on him.

Anth the Zelta Head.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:01:26 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Soul Rush
Message:
Have been very busy of late and haven't read the site in quite some time, but finally got around to reading the first half of 'Soul Rush' by Sophia Collier that I had printed some time ago. It was really good and I learned a lot about the old mindset of premies. I just thank God that I wasn't around then because as excited as I was about Knowledge, I know I would have moved to an ashram and blown off school and been terribly sorry later. Anyway, I really want to read the rest, which the person who made it available said was 'coming soon'. I assume since that was some time ago, it is available now for me to print and enjoy. I checked Jean-Micheal's site and couldn't find it. Where is it? I can't remember how I accessed it the first time. Thanks for the help.

Jai Satchitananda!!! Grace

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:39:37 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Soul Rush
Message:
Here it is:

Soul Rush online

You can even download the book, follow the links to the download page.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 16:24:21 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Living Master
Message:
Reading the post by Jean-Michel I saw the term living master (LM) in the letter from Marolyn dated somewhere around 1995. We also see that that term has been granted acceptability and is in use by premies today.

What term did LM replace? Easy, a number of loaded terms like Lord of the Universe, Perfect Master, Satguru, etc.

Why? Because Maharaji and Knowledge are being groomed to be more accessible for Westerners.

The Problem:

Living Master, hmmmm? The opposite would be a Dead Fool. But, let's just reverse the adjective, Living, to be Dead. So, what is a Dead Master? Well, it seems to me that we would be talking about Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Ram, Mohammed, Kabir, etc.

Certainly, a number of these so called Master were reverred as God and they held an exclusive franchise on their teaching of the ultimate truth, revealing of God inside.

So, Maharaji is going for a kinder and gentler approach these days, but for anyone who has half a brain and can read between the lines nothing has really changed since the 70's (get ready for the flak attack.)

And Devotion has been changed to Gratitude, Service to Participation.

Yes, Ex-Premies, we are living in the past. We are stuck in the 70's and know nothing about Maharaji. A snap of the fingers, a wave of the hand and it all changes - Presto Change-o. HE's too fast for our slow brains.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:49:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: The Living Master & challenge to premies
Message:
The true living master is always in our hearts. It is he who we have been searching for all of our lives. When we find him it is pure, unalloyed joy which is truly boundless. For he is every superlative which has ever been written and our one link to love everlasting.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you The face of the living master and you can consider yourselves most fortunate because he is changeless and eternal and truly the annointed one.

Now I challenge any premie to show or explain by words that the above is not true.

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:21:11 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The Living Master & challenge to premies
Message:
Er, Dave. If anybody clicks on your link today or in the near future, they're only going to see that babbling smiley face you've replaced Satpal with. You do realize that, don't you? I thought it was kind of funny, myself. Here, check it out:

The face of the living master

And I dare any premie to tell me that Smiley isn't. That's right.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:39:50 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The Living Master & challenge to premies
Message:
Sir David,

I'm getting a little worried about you, my brother.

Maybe it's time to take down that picture of Sat Pal.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:26:24 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: There's no argument against this
Message:
Look there's no need to worry about someone who's found the master of our time. But if you think about it, what possible argument have Rawat premies got when you slip them the fact that Satpal is also The Master.

I mean, now Rawat is no longer the Lord any more, and has been demoted to master status, what possible credentials could he have which usurp Satpal's status of living master? Satpal reveals the same knowledge, his devotees do the same meditation and he even has the previous master as his father. Satpal doesn't drink heavily, womanise and has adoring devotees wherever he goes.

The simple fact is, if you take on board the idea of a living master, nobody can argue that Satpal is less qualified to be that master than Prempal.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:31:59 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: If I had only known this then!
Message:
Sir D.,

I think that you're onto to something here. If only I had known this way back then I'd probably be some kind of government official by now.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 17:13:20 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: The Living Master
Message:
I think you're right about the Master part being gentler on the ears. One thing that I read on this site which haunted me for a while was the scheme to have aspirants come regularly for 6 months before being eligable for initiation
in order to fully indoctrinate them and have them get attached to Maharaji. I think it's true. I think it would be hard not to get to like the guy after viewing enough videos, if one is at all inclined to 'the message'. He is a very good speaker, relatable and funny. He also has been very 'normal' and all-American (at least in the US) in his presentation and ideas. He had tried referring to himself as 'Teacher' to aspirants for a short time and quickly reverted back to 'Master', I guess because its connotation of being above the norm or one to be revered.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:27:24 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: The Living Master: John-Roger
Message:
Anybody hear about this Living Dysfunctional Master: John-Roger? (MSIA) Scary parallels.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:58:06 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Re: The Living Master: John-Roger
Message:
Yes but only from reading about him on David Lane's site(s). Lane doesn't print that stuff on the site anymore, right? I didn't follow if he had a legal situation or is trying to sell a book about to come out.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 13:03:34 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: 'THE Letter' Part 1
Message:
Here's a letter Marolyn wrote someone who had served M closely for years. This person had heard M once say that we 'create our own problems' and that puzzled her. Apparently, at Amaroo she asked M how that could be given the plight of abused children, for example. Did they create their own problems? M rambled on without really answering, so she wrote him a letter. No answer. Then she tried to track down her old friend Marolyn. She couldn't get through to Marolyn who, it turns out, was still convalescing from her brain surgery. But the friend was just blown off fairly rudely by the people who answered so she, the friend, wrote Marolyn a letter. This is the reply:

[Note: the following was transcibed from a handwritten letter. Original punctuation, spelling and syntax was retained. The name of the person who received the letter was replaced by ___________. Some personal references were omitted - this is noted within the text.]

Saturday, Dec. 6 [1995?]

Dear ______,
When I first opened your letter and I saw your name I felt a dual response in me. I felt happy it was from you and at the same time a slight feeling of fear that you were here in town and I would not and could not handle the drama, situation, circumstances surrounding you in your life.
I have had brain surgery and I am recovering. I can not handle much stress - when I see it coming, I back off. It is most challenging, it is a daily process, and I am learning so very much about myself in this process.
First of all, dear ______, I too have such sweet feelings for you. [several personal messages omitted here] I receive many, many reports, requests, etc. from people. I would go crazy trying to fix, advise or become involved and part of the myriad of changing situations in their lives. The couple of times that you have written to me, I did not respond in a written letter - but I sent you my best thoughts, my best wishes, hoping everything would go well for you, [omit personal message].
May I please express to you an apology for the 'rude' response you received when you called last December. I have no idea who answered the telephone. But I must tell you that no one absolutely no one was put through to me via the telephone or any other way. Not my parents - (mom, dad) - my sister - my brothers, any of my relations or my friends. In December, I was still in a crisis stage of my recovery. Here it is December again and I am not out of the woods. I am still in recovery and my neuro surgeon reminds me to be patient as it will probably take three full years or longer.
I had a ruptured aneurysm, (in my brain), three times I was at deaths door. It changed my life. I may not understand why it happened but I do know how precious my breath is to me! I know I don't have time to waste, and spend frivoulessly [sic] on what is worthless to me in this life. Yes, problems, troubles, still come my way, but I try like hell to circumvent them. Sometimes I see that they are like big clouds or thunderstorms and I am a little pilot in a little airplane and I cannot afford to enter - or even (at this point in my life) get near them.
_________, when you talked (wrote) about being vulnerable - ________, I must tell you after this incredible drama of nearly bleeding to death inside my brain, and the torturous drama of brain surgery, the impact it had on me and my sweet family, it left me more vulnerable than I can tell you. There were more complications with the surgery and my nervous system was shot. For months I felt I lived on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I feel the weakest of the weak. And yet the miracle the majesty of my breath still resides in me. I am humbled and sincerely grateful. I find myself crying every day - my heart astounded I am still here.
What I'm writing to you, _________, is personal - it is for you only. I hope you understand.
After I read your letter, I felt so sad. I've always been hoping that everything was going good for you. I don't know about 'we create our own problems' Certainly for many people, most of us, we do have a lot to do with the problems that surround us. But sometimes it seems like they just get dumped in our lap. I have never felt so helpless, powerless and sensitive and vulnerable at the same time. And for some reason it seems like more 'problems' and 'troubles' came my way during the most critical time of my life. I see that 'yes, I am attached.' And I feel the feelings that go with my attachment even if it is just a thought, a concept, a desire, or my imagination at work.
When I was in the hospital for a month after the emergency surgery I did not feel much attachment. I felt free of so many of the things I normally feel attached to. Before the operation I understand that my moment here is breath by breath and I was only a breath away from death. And if I was to go - if it was my time to go, it's ok. It was just fine. So free. Trusting and feeling taken care of beyond this physical world and all the detail, the ever changing details of my daily life. Everything became very simple.
And now - I must remember the simplicity. There is an ocean of trouble - problems. I don't want to swim in it. My living Master showed me and reminds me thru His Perfect Knowledge how to go inside - how to turn my attention inside. It is my Safe Harbor. It is Real - as everything around me changes (good/bad) Whatever! What he gave me - the way to go inside and the experience it brings me, is Constant - it does not change. My breath - my best friend - still fills me with Life and delight.
You know when you got on the subject of premies, etc. Remember this - a premie is a lover - a lover of love - a lover of Knowledge - a lover of the living Master. Just because a person has received the techniques of Knowledge doesn't mean that they are manifesting as a true lover/premie. This thing called Mind is outrageous. The Heart cries for attention, the mind will abandon. Maharaji spends his life/time reminding those who truly want to hear about the heart. 'Premies' (i.e. those who have received the techniques) are often the cruelest offenders - abandoning - rejecting the Heart's cry (desire) - and that is not a PREMIE - a LOVER. And yet the Master does not shut the door on anyone.
__________, I don't know if M set Dr. Horton up in the office with Dr. Edel. Most likely he wanted a good facility for those he cares about. And Dr. Horton put himself in place. However, _________, this is confidential again, M is very displeased with John for reasons that I know, and also, for reasons that I don't know. I am also very mad (upset) with John for an incident that I cant go into detail right now. So when you expressed your feelings of hurt and frustration I could read you loud and clear. But I also know that these feelings that come to me are not my Reality. I know what is Real. I love what is Real. To me John is in the sea of problems and I don't want to engage myself there.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 13:05:16 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
Well, _________, I hope you can make sense of what I am trying to say. (My penmanship leaves a lot to be desired.) I had a mini stroke in the hospital so my right side of my body was affected - but I am soo lucky, so fortunate, so very blessed. At first it was a little hard for me to talk straight. Maharaji, my dearest husband and love was very protective of? (for?) me. So please don't feel singled out because you didn't get thru when you called My sister had a hard time with that one, too (but I was so grateful because I really couldn't handle or cope with even simple social interactions.)
I am much better, but I know I still have a ways to go. I take it one day at a time. And it helps me - really it makes the difference - when I begin (start) my day remembering my Priority. Otherwise in this most fragile state - I feel like the external 'world' can gobble me up and spit me out. (May I mention - I ask if you ever want to write to me please feel free to do so - but I beg you to be gentle. I feel like a newborn baby. Your letter has affected me deeply and I feel upset but I can only only pray to once again [illegible word] enjoy the Joy within.) I know I don't want that in my life. Maharaji has shown me that my Heart has a sweet song that it wants to sing. And I need to let that happen. I need to allow my heart to fulfill itself. The ocean of troubles, problems, issues, distraction is there; it's always there, that is it's nature. But for me, practicing Knowledge, listening to my living Master, serving my Master lifts me from the illusion and I can see that although it appears real - it is not real. What is Within is Real - and means everything to me. My attention to what is TRUE really does bring me bliss. It is this I trust. People who practice and are having a beautiful of experience OF KNOWLEDGE AND MASTER AND HEART (real premies) are inspiring to me and fun to be with. I enjoy the gift of their love, their love for live, for my Beloved Maharaji. [Illegible] means so much to me. I get distracted easily - and when I see devotion, when I see knowledge at work in others I feel inspired, and grateful. And when I see people with knowledge spacing out it is VERY botherson - most of the time it drives me crazy SAD - I don't know what to do. Talk to them? - have someone talk to them? - ignore it? - hoping they will wake up. But then -I know I have such little time here. As generous as my Creator is, I don't have long enough on this earth to let my Heart sing the glory and praises it longs to Sing. I have today - Now is my time. I pray that I will spend my time, spend my life (most valuable commodity) where it counts. Pay attention to what is worthwhile to me in this short and generous lifetime that I have been given.
So, __________, when I told you in the car ride [personal detail omitted] that I would help you if I could, I really don't know what I can do. But I will always wish you well - always hope you enjoy the most precious gift of life. Hard blows come and go - I try to stay clear. I try to avoid anything - person, place or thing that may (potentially) grab me and suck me into a space that I do not want to be. My clarity, my focus, my attention, my consciousness, needs to be, must be directed inside. My attachment must be on my Master, His Knowledge, my Heart. __________, it is not Maharaji's world of (nasty power) 'premies'. M's world is within. If people who have knowledge are unconscious, how do you think it makes Him feel. I have seen it on His face. It breaks His Heart - He trusted - He trusts us implicitly. If we choose to be unconscious - we abandon Him - we abandon Knowledge - we abandon our own Heart. The power or 'politics' that people chose over Knowledge is sad - unbelievable!
But my beloved Maharaji does not give up - He does not abandon. He has not abandoned me! Sometimes, I feel anger and frustration and start to point the finger at someone, and blame them for my stress - but then I ask myself - is this where I want to be? Is this what I want to feel? No! No. Maybe I can't change what happened, or change that person's attitude, or be [illegible] but my Maharaji has shown me what means EVERYTHING to me, in spite of or despite of everything else in this world.
__________, I appreciate that you felt you could express your feelings to me. I don't know what I can do. All I can say is .... Hang on. You have what it takes. I wish there was more I could do. I send you my love and very best wishes.
JAI! SAT CHIT ANAND
MLR

P.S. I didn't intend to go on for so long and I'm sorry about my handwriting and spelling. But, _________, I care for you. You are so beautiful - never lose sight of that. And dearest, remember the Grace you have, the Gift of all Gifts. Please do not lose sight of your True Blessings, your real Blessing.

May I please request that what I have shared is with you is for you alone? Thank you.

*One last thing before I end this. I have learned that I cannot judge Maharaji by the people who have received Knowledge and do not practice. Knowledge works! If we don't practice, in my view, we are the biggest fools, the biggest idiots on earth. I want to get graphic and say the biggest assholes alive! I'm sure that you know this. This time has been most trying for me. I find it hard to concentrate. The medication (anti seziure) I take is hard on me. And yet I never ask why did this happen? - By His Grace I am able to listen to videos of the Events and His travels all over the world to reach the thirsty. _______, I need to hear what my heart wants - yearns to hear. I need the direction. The little effort that I make pays off big time. Sometimes I feel dashed on the rocks and then I have nothing but trust; and most mercifully - most compassionately I am embraced Within. When I see Knowledge blossoming, blooming in the hearts of His Premies - I rejoice with tears in my eyes and a heart of gratitude and I witness His Magic in my life. ________, do whatever you need to experience that Magic.

P.S. Marolyn's old friend wanted this posted on her behalf. I'm not sure if Marolyn did.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:15:43 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Recipient Wanted Letter Posted
Message:
The last line of J-M's post states that 'Marolyn's old friend wanted this posted on her behalf.'
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 01:59:47 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Recipient Wanted Letter Posted
Message:
Yes. And Goebbels wanted Hitler to invade Poland. Judas wanted Jesus to prove what a cool dude he was. Ravan was sure he was better for Sita than Ram. John Wilkes Booth wanted Lincoln 'exposed.'So what? You undermine your whole trip by supporting this. Take a good look at yourself and see how self-righteous you are about others' rumored misdoings. It's a nakedly double standard and unworthy of you as a supposedly intelligent, sensitive person.

I'll bet your prisoners wouldn't stand for their confidential letters to be published, even after they've been put to death. Clean up your act, Marianne. Unless you want to function in such a tacky, crappy little way. Or just keep going and continue doing the work of dis-crediting this whole, self-important, little 'ex' movement. In fact, I'll keep quiet and let you all go on in your misguided quest. It just makes you look like people with nothing better to do with your lives, which, frankly, I have a hard time believing.

Barbara

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 02:46:20 (EDT)
From: Running Barking Dog
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Barbara, but...
Message:
Your analogy to those other notorious characters is a little much and has little meaning. It does, however, establish your tone for the rest of your post.

Take a good look at yourself and see how self-righteous you are about others' rumored misdoings. It's a nakedly double standard and unworthy of you as a supposedly intelligent, sensitive person.

Alright, we're a tough bunch here and nothing is sacred including Maharaji's wife Marolyn as cruel as that might sound to even me.

Now, to my point, we certainly did and do hold Maharaji to a higher standard of personal behavior than ourselves. Why? Because he said that he was God. Ok, you'll say that who are we to say what God should be, etc. Or you might say that Maharaji never said that he was God and that we only projected that onto him. Either of those responses would be pretty flimsy so I hope that you can come up with something better.

Another problem that I have with Maharaji is that he sells his Knowledge as the ultimate panacea to whatever is ailing you and it might make you a better person. Yet, we see his actions and the actions of those close to him and they seem like actions of sick, unconscious people who only care about themselves. And through their positions of power these people appear to delight in taking advantage of those who are susceptible and weak.

Ultimately these examples of misbehvavior, which are best secreted away, ignored and swept under the carpet, do not make for a very good advertisement for something that should be so profound and life changing.

You could say that what we do is rather tacky, but many of us are trying to let the unsuspecting public and aspirants know that there is another side to Maharaji's beautiful, beautiful story. And it's UGLY AND SELFISH!

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 22:56:38 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Running Barking Dog
Subject: Re: Barbara, but...
Message:
Running Barking Dog: Thanks for your comments. Here's a cyber doggie treat and a couple of pets on the head!

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:52:27 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Running Barking Dog
Subject: A different Barbara
Message:
barbara Kolodny was one of those instructors that
believed the lies of prem rawat and he finally
crushed her enough so that she left.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:14:11 (EDT)
From: BWS
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Battered Woman Syndrome
Message:
Thanks for posting this JM.

It seems to me that Marolyn is perhaps the most traumatized, victim of the cult and Rawat.

She is completely controlled by him. Brainwashed into thinking that all she needs is her breath. Completely isolated from any friends Rawat may not approve of.

Classic Battered Woman Syndrome.

I hope she gets help.

BWS

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 03:51:43 (EDT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
Boy, the stench coming off of this page is now quite unbelievable. And you're proud of yourselves? Sanctimonius, vindictive, abusive and flailing at ghosts. Betraying confidences, censoring differing viewpoints, trashing people you don't even know, lumping people who are/have been your friends, husbands, girlfriends and teachers into a totally inaccurate, completely conceptual dinky little box that, if you were aware you'd applied to any other 'group', you'd be horrified to have this garbage held up to you in the mirror as an example of your view and comprehension of people, any people.

The mistreatment and cruelty shown here is an example of what, exactly? Your new found consciousness and sensitivity upon leaving Maharaji or the practice of knowledge? And you dare to call people names? Take a good look at what's going on here. What has Maharaji (and I mean personally, not your particular, peculiar fantasy) done to you, said to you or forced you to do? What on EARTH has Marolyn done to you? I've met her many times and a lovelier woman I'd be hard-pressed to recall. Warm to people, their kids, their parents. A genuinely good soul. What do you think you're achieving here?

This is just pure ugliness. Think of this as a TV channel and your broadcasts are among the world's most rancid at this moment. The World Wrestling Federation is more fun and has a much better vibe.

Jean-Michel, if you have any balls, manners, functional memory or awareness, you should apologise very quickly. To anyone else (Marianne, etc.) who aligns themself with this type of 'breach of trust' broadcast...you're just not reaching the behavior threshhold of an even moderately big person. 3rd graders treat each other on a considerably higher plane than this. Take a good look. You're getting too used to the odor whose flames you, yourself, are repeatedly fanning. Time to realize how noxious it really is. What are YOU putting into the atmosphere? And is it remotely breathable?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 03:44:46 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
When people make public promises, doesn't that constitute a personal promise? Because Miragey promised to bring peace on earth publicly, does that somehow disqualify it as a personal promise to me?

You can disavow Miragey's responsibility all you want to. I know it's the current party line for premies. But don't, please DON'T try to assume us into the 'commonsense' of this blatant denial of reality.

I take very personally the lies and deliberately implied beliefs of Divine Light Mission. Miragey didn't care about my microbial existence. If I had spent half the energy in one of the armed forces that I spent on Miragey, I'd still be reaping benefits from it today and I would have received a salary for my trouble. Instead, the decifits outweighed the benefits, and I didn't get paid.

And apparently, the person the letter was sent to didn't agree with you, which is why it was published. I never go to Miragey's sites and could give a rat's ass about the divine melrose place scenario. Wake the fuck up! We didn't claim we were God or married to him or whatever. These people did.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:08:13 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Excellent post! You hit the bull's eye (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:57:22 (EDT)
From: Black Barking Dog
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: JB, puleeeeze!
Message:
Get off your righteous and sanctimonious soap box and pretend to be a regular non-enlightened human being, a normy. You've got your Experience and your hope and vision of a world where there is peace and harmony given and guided by your Master.

But, we strongly disagree!

And, of course, you will not, most likely will not like what we say here. That should be obvious to you by now. We've seen you around here before.

See, you got this guy who came to the west so many years ago. He really didn't have much money at the time, but because he was selling a product that is very difficult to challenge - The I Can Show You God Because I Am God - he became very rich and today has luxury homes throughout the world including the Marble Palace in Malibu that must be worth a minimum of $20 million.

Yet, Maharaji has in recent times altered the advertising campaign and no longer claims to be a god worthy of worship and adulation. If you can believe that?

So, what is it that makes us so uncouth and disgusting? Well, JB, some of us are angry and ticked off because some of the best years of our lives were stolen from us to enrich this thoughtless bastard who only thinks of himself when you really understand him. Not only did Maharaji steal our time and money from us, but he imparted that dependent on HIM alien philosophy into us and most likely retarded our socialization skills and destroyed a lot of self esteem through the Good Things Happen Because of Maharaji's Grace and Bad Things Happen Because I'm Not surrendered Enough worldview. Sure, in his public performances he comes off as Mr. Nice Guy, but apparently that's not true and he's really just a stinker.

Ok, some of us are not running down the streets with our hair on fire and are trying to help people recover from their time in Maharaji's slammer. And some of us would like potential aspirants to know about the other side of Maharaji before they get fully involved in his shopping scheme. Truth in advertising is all we ask for.

So, JB, run back to your safe little world and avoid this leper colony if you detest it so.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 00:21:57 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Posting is Fine with me
Message:
J-M: As of the time I make this post, I have read all the objections of ex's & premies that have been made here. I want you to know that I totally support your post after having read what everyone else has said. I have total compassion for Marolyn and her friend. Likewise, they should have total compassion for those of us who post here, past and present. Marolyn's sorrow is shared by all of us in both large and small ways. What she has expressed are sentiments we have all shared here. The curtains should be pulled back on all aspects of this cult. What Marolyn is experiencing is but a bit of what many, many premies experienced, and were told to IGNORE, by her husband and his minions. Marolyn has the ability to savor the loss of someone close to her when many of the rest of us were denied that possiblility. I do not begrudge Marolyn feeling her loss --I begrudge DLM preventing hundreds of others feeling the same sort of loss Marolyn was permitted to experience.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:55:47 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Posting is Fine with me
Message:
What, your bruised little heart wasn't "touched" by Marolyn's request for privacy? Sanctimonious hypocrite!
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 03:51:54 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: You're ALL off the wall!
Message:
Beside all the emotional stuff brought by Marolyn's health at that time (that I share with you, believe me), most of you fail to see the main thing, and I guess Marolyn is playing with this in most of the letter.

First let me say that that handwritten letter is very long, and it took likely hours Marolyn to write it. She did write it though.

The subjet of this letter was very important, and that's why she finally answered, fearing what her ex-friend might do if she wouldn't have answered: she answered to protect Rawat.

I can't give details on the issue, but it's involving John H. and the ex-friend's family, and it can't be exposed on the forum. It has been reported to authorities at that time, according to the recipient of the letter, who doesn't want to take further steps for the moment.

That letter is an utter piece of BS, and shows very well how the Rawats handled that serious issue involving their ex-friend and an instructor.

That was SO disgusting to realize this for her, specially when they've been so close (everybody in Malibu knows who that person is), that she left in total and absolute disgust.

I hope she'll be online one day and tell her feelings regarding the Rawats.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:18:47 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: it involves sex right?
Message:
Or an abortion?
Not much left besides -theft(not a big issue for the
that clan), murder, assault, lying???????-not likely to
upset the apple cart with that crowd-, probably
sex right JM?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:01:26 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
Dear Jean Michel,

I am not sure why Marolyn's 'friend' wanted Marolyn's heart-felt letter published for all to see on the Internet. I feel that it is a total breach of trust and I am appalled that I asked for it to be printed although I had no idea it was of a personal nature and my 'curiousity' got the better of me. I was very humbled by the letter and I'm sure Anthony amongst others would not approve of this very personal letter being published here.

It was a very moving thing that Marolyn was so concerned about her 'friend' even though she was suffering greatly herself.

Best regards,

Liz

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 01:05:07 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: God, Liz, wake up already
Message:
Liz,

You really are a sucker for 'sincere', aren't you? Let's look at the facts, shall we? Stand back a bit, cut the knee-jerk reaction and look at the facts.

1) Marolyn has become wealthy on account of this Lord of the Universe fraud. She's lived and continues to enjoy an opulent lifestyle most of us see glimpses of by watching the Lifestyles of the Rich and Infamous. And yes, that's her money for sure. They live in California, don't they? Think about it.

2) Marolyn knows damn well that Maharaji's one big white wash. What else was she thinking when she was fucking her boyfriend when taking classes at Pepperdine? That the Lord wouldn't know? I mean, there's trying to sneak a fast one by God and there's trying to sneak a fast one by your husband. But when they're supposedly one and the same? .... ??? My point is that Marolyn can't play dumb (although I hear that wouldn't be all that hard) all her life and pretend that she lives in a zero moral gravity universe, getting richer and richer while burying her head deeper and deeper in the sand. She's living in the house that you and I built. She's our guest there and -- guess what? -- I'd love to evict the whole family. Until then, it's at least something of a small consolation to upset her tea party a bit.

3) Marolyn wanted her letter to be private because, on the basis of the Rawat fraud, no premie has a right to know anything. There are no rights. Only Maharaji has rights and, by proxy, so may she. I mean, really, what was so goddammed private about the letter in the first place? Her admission that Maharaji didn't like Dr. What's-his-name? Her pathetic, almost autistic disregard for the world around her? This letter, don't forget, was nothing more than a skinny attempt to shut up a 'friend' who wanted something that neither she nor her 'better half' are ever prepared to offer: honesty. If you can't read throught the lines, you're naive beyond words. Basically, this letter is just her telling her friend to shut the fuck up and quit bothering her. The cult relationship underpinning that request and her expectation that her 'friend' would back off as directed is sick.

Look, we promised all sorts of stuff in the cult. I pormised to never reveal the techniques to anyone. I promised to serve Maharaji with my every breath until my final one. And on and on and on. We were defrauded. None of those promises mean dick anymore.

3) Marolyn didn't die and is long out of the woods on this one. So what possible difference does it make now that she was once convalescing? And all that whiny moaning and groaning? All that 'he's really everything blather? If it's embarrasing to read it's all her fault. She's playing along with the Durga-Ji bullshit and every last premie ever taken in by these retarded mental exhaust fumes has the right to see them for what they really are -- the confused, wimperings of a cult leader's wife -- and not only if and when she sees fit.

In short, the Rawats have no right to any privacy. Not so long as they encourage premies to feed -- and pay -- into their larger-than-life mythology.

This is not a usual interpersonal situation.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:04:53 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Breach of Trust
Message:
I had meant to title my previous post 'Breach of Trust' This was mainly because Marolyn had pleaded twice with her so-called 'friend' to keep this heart-felt letter confidential.

Liz

Liz

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:12:23 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Breach of contract!
Message:
'Breach of Trust'

There was a contract between Rawat and us.

Rawat broke it, specially with that person whom HE personally knows, when HE had every mean to do something reg the situation with John H.

He didn't even acknowledge the problem, never expressed any compassion for her, didn't even want to answer her question in Amaroo, when he knew what it was about.

You can't talk of keeping your promises whith a creep like Rawat.

I'm sorry, as disgusting as it may be, but this has to be exposed. I'm sorry for those who believe in him. This is how the Rawats behave with their friend. There is NO excuse, and certainly not hiding these stories.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:08:08 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Breach of contract!
Message:
What's interesting is that this person wouldn't allow Maharaji to blow her/him off with some mumbling about suffering in the world or whatever he told her. Bury your head in the sand. You've got the tools to do it. Practice, practice, practice. It's all maya anyway.

It's not surprising that he wouldn't answer further inquiries. If he can't get over with the usual cult jargon, what else does he have to offer? I figure that when Marolyn just gave this person more of the same that he/she had already got from Big M, this person woke up and began to realize that, yes, it is a cult.

I like when Marolyn apologizes for going on so long. Hey, when you're in a cult and you're getting off singing the praises of the master and his magic juice, it's easy to go on forever. Just forget that you're actually talking to somebody other than yourself and indulge in all the hoopla that gets your rocks off. Better than sex, maan...

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 21:19:28 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter'
Message:
Jean-Michel,

Two things come through loud and clear with your publication of this letter in a public forum. One is how clearly Marolyn cared about her friend at a time when she, herself, was fighting a life-threatening illness. And two...how little class and integrity you and the recipient of this letter have for publishing it.

You really have soiled yourself in yet another attempt to trash Maharaji, a man of whom you clearly have no understanding. Do you have any idea what a cheap shot this is? Or are you still too upset for not achieving your previously desired 'career' goal as an instructor? You should do a little soul-searching, if you haven't totally forgotten the coordinates of that very real part of a human being. The more mud you attempt to throw, the more ends up directly on your own face.

Your credibility has officially reached zero. If you had enough perspective to see what you're trying to accomplish, it would make you ill.

Barbara

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:27:51 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Care for her friend?
Message:
how clearly Marolyn cared about her friend

I guess you can't read English. Beside all the emotional stuff, can't you read what she's saying to her friend? Jim said it well.

If you had enough perspective to see what you're trying to accomplish, it would make you ill.

I have now enough perspective to see what I've accomplished: following a despicable person for so many years, someone saying he's caring when he doesn't, even for his friend serving him every day for years!

This is disgusting. And what's most disgusting is that I've failed to acknowledge this for so long, when I had enough facts to do so. This is how blind you get when you're involved in a cult.

I'm out of this relationship with Rawat, and I don't care to save his image.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 16:23:32 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Care for her friend?
Message:
Yes, I read English quite well. In fact, it's my first language. You continue to expose yourself as a vindictive, sad, little man playing 'gotcha!.'. You say you have perspective? Linda Tripp said the same thing to excuse her actions re:Lewinsky, though you might not neccesarily know that story. It’s only slightly less popular than “Titanic.”

As the mud continues to accumulate on your face and those of your amen choir, please tell me how it is that Maharaji has been 'despicable' to YOU. How has Marolyn, personally, been “despicable” to YOU. Not unnamed third parties...not in relation to your hopes, dreams, expectations or imagination. Not compared to some quote from Hardwar in 1967. Not by someone else acting in their “name.” Not because you didn't achieve your desired status at the time in Elan Vital. In real life. To YOU.

You say you have perspective? Well, here's some perspective for you. I hadn't been to this page in quite a while. Guess what? Almost exactly the SAME crew are printing exactly the SAME bits of detritus that were being printed a year ago. The same characters, perhaps fewer in number than even last year (multiple handles aside.) There's SHP trying to be righteous and figure it all out. There's Jim, sounding like he's drinking even more heavily as he writes, setting up his little wires across the road, hoping to trip up some unsuspecting premie for a particularly nasty fall. There's Barney having fun with fonts and type styles.

And you know what? The number of people still enjoying knowledge and loving Maharaji around the world so vastly outnumbers this little band of merry muckrakers that it'd be hard to come up with an appropriate fraction to describe your numbers. Not that numbers particularly matter, but for the sake of a little perspective.

Another 'group' that is many thousand times larger than your crappy lil' 'mission', Jean-Michel, are those people who have taken great benefit, adventure and pleasure for some period in their lives from their association with Maharaji and now either regard that time in their lives as a wild foray of their youth, with a mixture of fond and crazy memories...or a “what the hell was I thinking, a Guru!?” What do both “groups” have in common? They don’t contribute to your “Forum.” They don’t see Maharaji, his wife, his children or the premies as “evil,” “despicable,” “monstrous,” or any of your other choice characterizations.

Many of these people still think Maharaji is pretty damn cool and will go to see him on occasion. Others can't remember what the fuss was all about and just dismiss it from their brains. Is it your contention that YOU are “right” and ALL THESE PEOPLE are “wrong?” Boy, doesn’t that smack just a wee, little bit of every controlling quality you’ve ever hated in your own life?

A big person says, “if other people are enjoying it and THEY feel it brings a priceless quality to THEIR lives, who am I to tell them otherwise.” A small person says, “maybe I can ruin it for somebody else.” I don’t know if you have it in you to grow up. I hope you do.

P.S. If this is how you treat people who were formerly important to you, I'd hate to be your ex-girlfriend!

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 16:28:26 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Right-use-ness
Message:
'There's SHP trying to be righteous and figure it all out.'
Barbara,
No trying here sister. I am being whatever I am.
What's that? It's not chic to be righteous?
For me, right-use-ness is like khaki, never goes out of style.
Otherwise, you go girl!
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:35:55 (EDT)
From: colorful barney
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Yes, Barbara sounds intelligent which is something new for premies, but...
Message:
Barbara is not smart enough to stay away from the ex-premie forum (aka cesspool.) Be sure not to get any on ya.

I see that Gerry said a lot of what I would have said, so...

There's SHP trying to be righteous and figure it all out.

I assume that you know that SHP is a premie, one of your own? It would almost sound like you don't care for his efforts to defend Maharaji here. Sounds healthy to me.

There's Barney having fun with fonts and type styles.

Yes, I am having fun. Finally I'm getting some fun after nearly 25 years of grief hanging around Maharaji and his lame-o premies. God, was that ever stifling! Don't go to college, don't get married, don't have kids, don't get a career. Instead you can all serve me and enrich me to the point where I have so much money that I can have the world's most complete and expensive wrist watch collection.

That's goddamn sick! Somebody with that much money to blow on watches should discover the joy and pleasure of cocaine, if he has not done so already.

Oh, I forgot, he really likes (read as is an alcoholic) brandy or something like that. No doubt the fanciest imported brandy. Meanwhile in the old days premies would sell their blood and plasma on a weekly basis to save enough money in order to quit their jobs and irresponsibly run off to yet another wing ding hoe-down to slobber on his toes while he makes strange faces because HE really doesn't feel that comfortable being around all those little people.

Barbara, we think (that is allowed once you quit Maharaji) that Maharaji stinks. He's a selfish, greedy, lying, sickboy!

You know in the 16 or so months that Forum III was in operation some 1.4 million messages were sent by the server to browsers through out the world. Ok, the statistics (which Maharaji pronounces as sa-tis-tics and HE dislikes statistics, most uneducated people dislike and disbelieve statistics) are a little weak, but still that's a lot of lurking going on by somebody out there. Yes, you can probably answer back that www.maharaji.org has such and such, but that's a captive audience who live and die on every word HE says.

See ya next year!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 19:34:53 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Re: Care for her friend?
Message:
Hi Barb,

You're well spoken and obviously intelligent. But how do you know anything about the numbers of satisfied customers of M's knowledge? What about those also unknown numbers who received K and then left? That includes EVERYONE I know who ever recieved Knowledge.

You said those people who have taken great benefit, adventure and pleasure for some period in their lives from their association with Maharaji and now either regard that time in their lives as a wild foray of their youth, with a mixture of fond and crazy memories...or a “what the hell was I thinking, a Guru!?”

I was one of those people, myself, until I got on the internet and found this site. Until then I had NO IDEA what happened after 1974. Then I read about the ashram debacle, the various scandals (drugs, alcohol, marital cheating) and the extreme trips M put people through. What about the horrors in the Florida swamps? The Kissimee stories blew me away. These things aren't going away and it points a sordid picture indeed of your cult and its leader.

How can you justify all the weird and destructive things that happened to people who became deeply involved with Maharaji?

I know, I know, some of the premies say they managed to stay out of the weirdness. But did they really? I remember how it was when I was in the ashram and how awful it really was. I left pronto. M wasn't even a good meditation teacher. His 'one size fits all' technique really is quite lame and seems to 'work ' for a small percentage of people who then go on to ascribe to M their own inner experiences.

You can't deny that M got extremely wealthy on the back of the slave labor of premies and premie businesses. And that he held forth great promises, and that very few of anyone's expectations, created by Maharaji himself, were fulfilled. About the only thing that really happened was that M got very rich and gathered a small but fanatically dedicated group of people around him.

If Knowledge is real, then why the huge emphasis on the 'Master?' This appears very cultish to me, and until I seriously examined what hapened to me so many years ago and heard the experiences of others, I didn't understand this..

Of course we are the vocal minority. Why are we so small? Well that'seasy to explain. Not all those people in the group you mention have a computer and are on the net. Not all who have net access even bothered to do a search on M. Of those, how many found this sight? Of those people, how many read the forum as lurkers? And only a small percentage of lurkers post. So there is a simple reason for our numbers. But our effect is way out of proportion with our numbers, I firmly believe.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, except Maharaji's. I post and participate in an effort to warn would-be cult members and to hopefully help nudge fence sitters out of the cult. Including you.

Best of luck to you. I hope yopu get your life back.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:58:02 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: The lifetime channel, Barbara?
Message:
That is not what comes through the letter Barbara.

You miss the point entirely and think somehow J.M.
is tarnished.
You have a long road ahead of you to be able to
stop mispercieving life.
I wish you luck, at least you are here where you may
get help.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 19:05:36 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Since you called me out of this...
Message:
JM,

Since you called me out on this at the top of your thread, here is my response to you.
The way I see it, to malign the person you have quoted here on the internet who is recovering from a life-threatening brain condition is immoral and possibly criminal.
To abuse children is definitely immoral and criminal.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
You could have accomplished your mission of righting the wrongs of Jagdeo without holding Marolyn up to this forum's scrutiny.
I truly believe I would feel this way no matter which side of the issue I was on.

Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:16:40 (EDT)
From: Abner Louima
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp, goto the Sheep Channel now!
Message:
The way I see it, to malign the person you have quoted here on the internet who is recovering from a life-threatening brain condition is immoral and possibly criminal. (My emphasis, you dickhead!)

Shp, who the hell died and made you the Chief Justice at the Supreme Court?

Bring up them charges. Call in the calvary.

Your such a pompous twit! I suspect that Maharaji may have indeed saved your life. Without Maharaji you probably would have been just another nut leading a cult.

Booting you from Forum III WAS the right thing to do!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:33:49 (EDT)
From: jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Since you called me out of this...
Message:
I'm sorry to expose all this again, but beside Marolyn's illness, you can actually see how the Rawats handled a very serious issue. And believe me it was serious. It's been reported to authorities.

Can't you see Marolyn is playing with this ?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:27:46 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Something else reported to the authorities???
Message:
I didn't know that!

Is this just the tip of the iceberg in Maharaji's perfect world?

How much more shit does he have swept under the rug?

How much does HE need? Can't he just give it up and retire?

Maybe HE'll end up doing a Fatty Arbuckle unless he already has.

As the LAPD would say, 'We've got a Code H in Hollywood.'

And the Malibu PD would say, 'Code M at the Marble Palace. Donuts at Trancas Market!'

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 00:09:30 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: third eye wide shut
Message:
shp, it's the dang dogma and who she is and her
proximity the your lord that you of all people
should look at.
She has been removed from the satsang hall like everyone
else.
HERE on the leaving the cult forum, is exactly where
her satsang is welcomed so we can see what 35 years
of darshan has done to her so we can see the ultimate
example of someone practicing 'knowledge' under the
ultimate conditions.

Dont be so thrown by her headache. Dont you know
others with worse longer running medical problems?

I sure do, in fact today I was talking to a partially
deaf, partially blind, partially retarded guy who
want a girlfriend but so far...

Separate the story of poor me from the 'satsang' and
look at the satsang. It cant stand the light of day.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 18:54:41 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
The words of a kind soul having to deal with what is clearly an incredibly difficult challenge. But when she said, and I quote, 'If we don't practice, in my view, we are the biggest fools, the biggest idiots on earth. I want to get graphic and say the biggest assholes alive!', I would like to add something. An even bigger asshole is someone who betrays the trust and confidence of their friends.

You know JM, there's a very interesting thing that happens when people spend too much time in a cesspool. They start to acquire the smell of their surroundings, and even stranger, they stop even noticing the fact that they stink. By posting this letter you emanate the stench from the same cesspool as does its recipient.

You're a sorry piece of work JM. You deserve your cesspool!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:55:07 (EDT)
From: So why did YOU read it, URL...
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: when you knew it was private?
Message:
Hypocrite.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:44:52 (EDT)
From: black barking dog
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again
Message:
From one dog to another I can say that we do the damnedest things like lap up water out of the toilet bowl. We do it so often that it tastes good. Hell, it just looks like a fancy drinking dish to us. How are we to know what that damn thing is really for. After all we're just dogs and we love our masters because they feed us all the horsemeat and rendered animal byproducts that we could ever want. Git to lay around and sleep all day. No big worries, no problems other than that pesky mailman and those sneaky meter readers.

It's just a dog's life, URL.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 07:05:50 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: black barking dog
Subject: Re: Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again
Message:
'No big worries, no problems other than that pesky mailman and those sneaky meter readers'...

big barfing dog,

Hey, there's two more you can go after!
That mailman delivered all those checks and money orders to Maharaji. Surely he must have known what he was doing and what was really going on. And I heard that his sister's uncle's brother is doing the daughter or cousin of somebody's mother's father's nephew. Sic him, fella!

And the meter readers, c'mon. They went in the house and must have caught the vibe...rip their throats out! By the way, did you hear that the meter reader's cousin's uncle's sister is actually doing the mailman's brother's roomate's shoe salesman?

When are you going back to finish your courses at attack school? You know, the courses that teach you how to back off and be sure that you are attacking the right person before you go in for the kill.

Please forgive my sarcasm. I know it is not the highest way to communicate. This thread reveals who is out for bloodsport and who is out to right wrongs without doing more damage than necessary. There is already more than enough pain on the planet and in this situation. Once again, my brothers and sisters, it's one person, one karma. Each of us is responsible for our own thoughts, words and deeds. Premies can't hide behind EV and exers can't hide behind this forum.

Drinking from a toilet can mess you up if the toilet is not clean. Check it out. You are not a dog, Bill. You know the difference.

Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:49:32 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: karma?
Message:
shp, the idea of 'one person, one karma' is not
accurate.
Take any example, look at buddha, guy died confused
but look at the continued effect of his 'karma'.
Women by the millions are treated as lesser beings
by thier buddha influenced husbands and brothers
and fathers.

You have posted here and annoyed more than one person.
Your karma, but the suffering was shared by others.

'Bloodlust'?
The chorus of berateing at JM got me to post instead
of just read.
Ididnt post as any of the dog names.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:09:17 (EDT)
From: big barking dog
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Come on, bb. Play along here.
Message:
Gosh, it was such an honor to be mistaken for Bill Burke.

However, any astute reader will know that Bill Burke's messages are always choppy like he's typing them in on a 40 character terminal. Why is that, Bill?

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:11:06 (EDT)
From: Milk Bone
Email: None
To: big barking dog
Subject: Dawgin it
Message:
I checked -Joke Soup- for some dog jokes but they were
so bad!

Here is a sample: clintons pet lab, Buddy, is getting
nuetered. The dog will never have sex again. Overnight
they've turned Buddy from a democrat to a republican.
that is a Leno joke. the rest are worse.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:32:06 (EDT)
From: big barking dog
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: St. Bernard Shp, you're full of dog shit!
Message:
And then there's some dogs who eat other dog's shit and that's you Shp.

There is already more than enough pain on the planet and in this situation. Once again, my brothers and sisters, it's one person, one karma. Each of us is responsible for our own thoughts, words and deeds. Premies can't hide behind EV and exers can't hide behind this forum.

He's out to save the world, folks - Little Brother Shp.

Sorry, pal, if whatever happened in this situation is, for me, just another example of how Maharaji and his perfect Knowledge is going to save the world then No Thanks! Don't want none of it.

Sure, you make a big point of individual responsibility. Seems that power and even being in its presence corrupts. Something's happening in L.A. alright and it ain't pretty. Too bad there aren't more people like you close and near to Maharaji. Instead HE gets all these big sickos and HE has to cover up for their misdeeds. Seems that Knowledge works only for nice guys like you.

You bet it's a bloodsport. Some people even died because of how badly they got fucked in the head by trying to following your lying Guru.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:58:04 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Dude, you've been drinking out of the URinaL again
Message:
...And I heard that his sister's uncle's brother is doing the daughter or cousin of somebody's mother's father's nephew. Sic him, fella! And the meter readers, c'mon. They went in the house and must have caught the vibe...rip their throats out! By the way, did you hear that the meter reader's cousin's uncle's sister is actually doing the mailman's brother's roomate's shoe salesman?

One thing you should consider, Shp. The people who are making up 'rumors' about Maharaji and his cohorts are EYEWITNESSES. They SAW, and in some cases were victims of, the shennanigans and crimes being perpetrated. If they were ever brought forth to testify to what they saw and were subjected to in a court of law, what do you think the judge and jury would say? Hmm? Do you think they'd just chalk it up as unsubstantiated rumors like your stupid watchdog analogy? What do you think?

And stop being so self-righteous about JM posting Marolyn's letter. You sound like a, like a... why, you sound just like somebody lost in a cult who can't think clearly about it. What do you really know about the circumstances that led up to the letter and this person's disgust over it? You don't know shit. You don't want to know. You've made it quite clear that you just want Maharaji vindicated for every wrong he's done.

Go fuck off. (Use THAT as a spiritual teaching).

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:13:01 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Reply to Jerry
Message:
One thing you should consider, Shp. The people who are making up 'rumors' about Maharaji and his cohorts are EYEWITNESSES. They SAW, and in some cases were victims of, the shennanigans and crimes being perpetrated. If they were ever brought forth to testify to what they saw and were subjected to in a court of law, what do you think the judge and jury would say? Hmm? Do you think they'd just chalk it up as unsubstantiated rumors like your stupid watchdog analogy? What do you think?

>I think that people have and are entitled to private lives, including the Rawat family. Whether you or I agree or disagree with what they or anyone else does when the lights are off and the door is closed is irrelevant. If crimes were committed, there are channels set up in our society to deal with such matters.

I personally draw the line at when kids or other defenseless people get hurt, not when consenting adults mess around. That's none of my business. He's not telling me to live like that. So I hope he gets all his shit worked out on the material plane and has a nice life, the same as I wish for you and the other five or six billion of us monkeys.

And stop being so self-righteous about JM posting Marolyn's letter. You sound like a, like a... why, you sound just like somebody lost in a cult who can't think clearly about it. What do you really know about the circumstances that led up to the letter and this person's disgust over it? You don't know shit. You don't want to know. You've made it quite clear that you just want Maharaji vindicated for every wrong he's done.

>If that's what you get from my posts, then you may be able to read, but your comprehension sucks.
And using Marolyn was a cheap shot that did not have to be fired.
I am here reading and posting. I do this to know what is going on. I think you may have me confused for thousands of other premies who either don't know this place exists or don't give a shit.

Go fuck off. (Use THAT as a spiritual teaching).

>Please be specific. Are you asking or telling me to stay off this site? Or is this just verbal battery
and you still want me to check in? Since you are not the only one on this site, I will remain and avoid you, so no offense to you as one of my hosts, you know?

You participate in the 'dumbing down process' on this forum by accusing myself and others of being 'self righteous' or 'preaching' or a variety of other tags that suggest whenever someone says something truth-full or with heart and common sense, but not in agreement with what you believe, you toss one of these negative-charged word bombs out and expect it to blow away. Truth is stronger than that.
You can have a whole herd of like minds hooting and hollering behind you, but that is all going on in this little pond, this forum. Take it to the ocean and see if it floats.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:42:34 (EDT)
From: big barking dog
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Shp's Reply to Jerry
Message:
Go fuck off, Shp.
Plain and simple.
Yes, we all want YOU to leave the Forum.
We despise you.
You're a Gollum-like lying sack of shit!

But, have a nice day!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:37:35 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: You're fucked up
Message:
I think that people have and are entitled to private lives, including the Rawat family. Whether you or I agree or disagree with what they or anyone else does when the lights are off and the door is closed is irrelevant.

And this is a guy that you claim is a spiritual master. How much leeway are you willing to give him? You astound me. You mean if he really is cheating on Marolyn, that's okay? He could still be a spiritual master in good standing?!

'Go fuck off' means fuck you, eat shit, sit on it and twirl. You know, that sort of stuff. It's not a request to leave the forum. It's an emotional expression on how I feel about the latitude you're willing to give Maharaji, and how you can't see that publishing Marolyn's letter is helpful for those disentangling themselves from the cult. So once again...

Go fuck off.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:43:54 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: fuck you url
Message:
really url,
What about the stink of the dogma that only your god damn
breath is anything at all and everything else is
just stress and illusion and not 'HIM'.

FACE IT URL, THAT IS THE DOGMA YOU EMBRACE.

How pathetic for a woman her age to be reduced to
that kind of misperception of life.
And thinking it is reality is hard for her to even
maintain because she is unable to actually live like
that.
Laced throughout her satsang-and it is satsang- not
a private sentence in there except perhaps that
she doesnt like dr. john like your precious lord
doesnt like him, and that premies are '(power mad)'
or however she put it, THOSE were supposed to be
private, because they show her attitude to specific
people and no one likes to have thier 'inner' backbiting
thoughts get out too far.

The rest of her rap is hardly anything more than dogma
and darshan of 35 years talking.

And IT stunk to high hell.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 18:05:53 (EDT)
From: never mind
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: 'THE Letter' Part 2
Message:
This is really a dispicable act. What the hell have you gained by publishing this letter, exactly? What the hell has this woman done to you? Really, Jean-Michel, whoever you are, you should be ashamed of yourself.

There is nothing more to say - you have left even basic humanity behind with this disgusting breach of confidence. This is quite repugnant, by any ethical or moral standard. I hope those of you who have been moralising here will stand up and agree.

Honestly - have you NO shame?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:52:23 (EDT)
From: Roger Embarrassed Drek
Email: None
To: never mind
Subject: ***Best of Forum*** for never mind's righteous indignation!
Message:
I'm embarrassed for you J-M. In fact, what has Maharaji ever done to you to deserve all this?

'never mind's' post will be available later today at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek. And I should probably include THE Letter just to provide the damning evidence.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:06:01 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger Embarrassed Drek
Subject: Re: ***Best of Forum*** for never mind's righteous indignation!
Message:
I'll give you personal details one day.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:40:41 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: thank you JM. nt
Message:
sdfhds
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 20:26:13 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: all
Subject: I do not like this letter posted
Message:
This letter was posted before and many, I think most, of the ex's feel posting this letter is wrong. Yes, it reveals a lot. But it was a personal letter written by a woman recovering from a devastating illness. It seems exploitive to post it. JM, I like you a lot and am sorry to disagree but that is my opinion.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:18:26 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom & all
Subject: Re: I do not like this letter posted
Message:
Gmom and all,

Here we have gmom, God bless her, who probably has the most right to be pissed of everybody here, and she has the class, common sense and propriety to take the high road to the resolution and closure of her own unfortunate and unpleasant matters.

Some may try to talk you out of your position and try to get you riled up in the name of revenge. Don't buy it, gmom. You have grace and dignity in the face of trouble, and not many can pull that off.
It strengthens your position and makes you shine in the midst of lesser and darker minds.
Hang on, sister.
Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 11:34:32 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Fuck you, Shp -- attention, gmom
Message:
Shp,

You asshole. Gmom might be being a little too nice here. Everyone wants to be nice. I don't blame her. She's a lovely person and I'm sure in her normal life she doesn't ahve to deal with assholes like you too much. Why would she? In the normal world we just walk away.

Anyway, gmom, I'd like you to consider Shp's comments. Please consider them like a template over all else he's said about how 'sympathetic' he is with your Jagdeo experience and the difficulty you had, first, reporting it and, second, being acknowledged for having done so yeras before:

Hey, there's two more you can go after!
That mailman delivered all those checks and money orders to Maharaji. Surely he must have known what he was doing and what was really going on. And I heard that his sister's uncle's brother is doing the daughter or cousin of somebody's mother's father's nephew. Sic him, fella!

And the meter readers, c'mon. They went in the house and must have caught the vibe...rip their throats out! By the way, did you hear that the meter reader's cousin's uncle's sister is actually doing the mailman's brother's roomate's shoe salesman?

When are you going back to finish your courses at attack school? You know, the courses that teach you how to back off and be sure that you are attacking the right person before you go in for the kill.

Shp cares about as much as you can expect a cult member to care, g. He's already said that he'd give Maharaji limitless 'latitude' if need be on matters such as this. After all, a master's a master. Know what that means? It means that you weigh absoultely nothing in his scales. Or put it this way. If Shp was loading a lifeboat and you were already on but then along comes a short, fat, greasy kind of guy......

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:50:47 (EDT)
From: Roger If-The-Ends-Justify-The-Means Drek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ***Best of Forum***
Message:
This will be Best of the Forum later today.

Shp's effort to siddle over to gmom was an incredible piece of careful and deliberate work that has made me clean off my monitor with S.O.S.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:22:02 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: here it all comes gmom, hold on
Message:
gmom,

I am not looking for points or friends. I am not trying to put a wedge between any of you. That is happening because of the words, thoughts and deeds of each person involved. I am just following my heart. I told you what would happen next, and it is.

Jim flat out lies in this quote to bolster his argument:
'He's already said that he'd give Maharaji limitless 'latitude' if need be on matters such as this.'

I never said anything about the latitude being limitless.
If that was what I believed, I would not be here.

Love,
Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:31:12 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Jim twisting words
Message:
gmom,

I just noticed how Jim took some things I said out of context and twisted them to appear to be mocking you. I brought up those sarcastic examples in reply to the dog boy, I think it's Bill Burke. It was in reply to a dialog about Marolyn's letter and subsequent accusations of various shit, what consenting adults were doing with each other and who knew, and had absolutely nothing to do with children.

I am sorry that you have to be put through this and that Jim is willing to rip at your feelings and lie about me to make himself look good....yes, look good to anyone who doesn't pay attention to what is going on post by post. Some lawyers are very good at that and don't care who they hurt to do it.

If I back off from here for a spell, no matter what anyone else says, please know that I am for you having a righteous closure to all this and will do what I can to help, in right action.

Love,
Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 12:45:40 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: SHP question
Message:
If Rawat called you to the residence, made you a VIP ( very important premie) and then told you I was full of shit and asked you to denounce me, would you?

I wonder why the people I told about his are lying.

I still would not publish the letter. I just do not the the ends do not justify the means in this case.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:08:21 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: SHP question
Message:
I just do not the the ends do not justify the means in this case.

What is the end (as far as the letter's recipient is concerned) in this case?
Show how Rawat is full of shit, and his wife supporting him, as abusive as he is! AND telling other people who've suffered that sort of abuse, because there are many of them, that they're not alone.

Because this is EXTREMELY helpful for people who've been abused.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:02:14 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: question
Message:
Dear JM, You are getting through to me. If Marolyn had written this letter to me in response to what Jagdeo had done I may have wanted to post it. I am starting to see what you are saying about the recipients point of view. I might have tried to find a way to get the content across without posting the letter though. In any case, I respect you very much and hope you know that.
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 05:24:56 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: question->Rawat
Message:
If Marolyn had written this letter to me in response to what Jagdeo had done I may have wanted to post it. I am starting to see what you are saying about the recipients point of view. I might have tried to find a way to get the content across without posting the letter though.

I guess you're understanding her point now. The problem is that beside giving details on her story, which she can't for the moment, there was no way for her to share this.
She's already told her story and shown the letter to quite some premies and exes. She asked the Rawats for an answer many times, and this is the result of their attitude.

I'd really like to see a change in their attitude, and I'm waiting for them to express some compassion. My attitude will also change on that day.

Hey Mr Rawat, anything to say?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:06:05 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: SHP question
Message:
gmom,

No, I would not denounce you, not unless this whole thing turned out to be a sham, which I really don't think it is. You and most here don't know how committed I am to the truth. What are my faculties and intuitions for if not to guide on? What are the inner feelings of my heart center, if not the stirring of God inside me, urging me onto the path that will lead me closer to Him, for that is my prayer and has been for thirty years. (Maybe it was that babbaganoush with all the garlic, hohoho) This is not a hobby for me being here, gmom.

I am sure that such a scenario as you described would be a heavy one, but I think I would sleep good that night if it happened, for being true to myself and to a wounded sister.

By the way, I hope you are not postponing your healing process because of others doing or not doing something. I hope you are regrouping inside and getting completely over the pain and whatever lingering bad feelings you may have. I envision you doing this, with your permission. You have had a place in my heart since I heard about it.

Love,
Shp

PS I can handle the negativity here better this time around and deal with the issues I came here to deal with. I am sorry that I allowed myself to get get caught up in the sniping games and get run off last time around.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:04:17 (EDT)
From: Abner Louima
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: SHP I THINK I'M GOING GET SICK HERE!
Message:
Shp,

Maybe you need to do a little self inventory and see what a total bullshit artist you are. You probably cannot do that because there would be nothing left.

You really, really make me sick, you poor little victim of sniping. You fucking love it, asshole. Little martyr Shp going for sainthood.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:30:27 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: gmom
Subject: Re: I do not like this letter posted
Message:
Hi gmom,

I understand your emotion. Would you email me?
I'd like to give you more details, and I guess you'll understand why.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 21:46:50 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: I do not like this letter posted
Message:
I have to agree with Liz. As we all know now, Marolyn was recuperating from a potentially deadly illness and, as she repeatedly stated, she was avoiding anything that caused stress. It appears that the recipient of the letter had (has?) a history of problems, and the publication of the letter even after several requests by Marolyn for confidentiality, suggests that those problems still exist. Another factor to consider is that, on several occasions when Marolyn DID stand up to M, she was threatened with never seeing her children again. Talk about stress.... So the combination of her illness and the futility and stress of Marolyn's efforts to confront M certainly should make one pause before attempting to castigate her.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 22:37:53 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Re: I do not like this letter posted
Message:
I agree. Why post this letter? It's standard premie drivel: nothing new to this site. No new gossip, and no new philosophy. And it is an invasion of privacy. It reveals Marolyn as someone who is sadly trying to deal with Job-like circumstances with a sadly flimsy belief system. Good luck - godspeed, M...I can't imagine being married to P.P.W.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 23:30:34 (EDT)
From: 'biggest asshole'
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: I like the letter posted
Message:
Privacy schmivacy.
What it reveals is worth any other considerations.
Jim answered this before very well.
May he do it again.

This site is a resource for those of us that are/were
trying to make the break from the delusional programming
of this evil liars cult.
Our time and lifes were stolen and he is trying to
ensnare the world still. SHE is part and parcel
of this and her long running lifestyle of opulence
and excess at our expense and suffering is not
excused because she has a damn headache.

fuck her. My wife has medical problems. Long running
and lots of pain.
Fuck marolyn and her whineing about stress.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 15:17:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: 'biggest asshole'
Subject: Re: I like the letter posted
Message:
Bill, I don't know how you got to be so dark. You are clearly one of the more ominous characters on the forum. My wish for you (no it's really not a wish -- more a prophecy) is that you may one day experience the same level of compassion you so proudly demonstrate in your post.
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Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 02:54:13 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: I wish, I wish
Message:
My wish for you (no it's really not a wish -- more a prophecy) is that you may one day experience the same level of compassion you so proudly demonstrate in your post.

Come now, URL. Be honest. It's a wish. You're not a prophet. My wish for you is that you don't blush too badly from the embarassment of knowing that you've been kidding yourself all these years about Maharaji and Knowledge. That's if you ever realize this. But if you do, don't feel bad. You've got a lot of company and we'll be here for support when you need it.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:01:11 (EDT)
From: Mother's Little Helper
Email: None
To: 'biggest asshole'
Subject: Easy on Marolyn. It's a tough life being a housewife.
Message:
Come on, asshole!

Marolyn has to cook for all those people. Wash all the dishes. Do the laundry. Drive the kids around. Clean and mop the floors of that big house every day. The gardens. Clean the pool. Sweep the tennis court. And lot's more!

Have you no mercy?

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 13:38:17 (EDT)
From: Mercy Me!
Email: None
To: Mother's Little Helper
Subject: It's always been easy on Marolyn.
Message:
At least as far as doing housework!
Servants for everything includeing the kids when they
were young. Drivers, the works.

Living with such a tyrant was a horror no doubt.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:43:41 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: 'biggest asshole'
Subject: Here's another invasion of privacy
Message:

It was an invasion of privacy to be told by Rawat to cease all personal relationships and love him solely, because he was the living Lord. It was a massive intrusion into the personal lives of many people who gave up relationships with their husbands/wives, boyfriends/girlfriends and children to live a sterile life and literally blow their whole lives, all for a selfish, pompous liar, who now hasn't got the guts to admit that he made a mortal error in messing around with the lives of thousands of young people.
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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 08:20:13 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jean Michel
Subject: Yellow tabloid journalism
Message:
Jean-Michel aka Monsieur Fromage,

What a cheezy thing to do, to print Marilyn's personal letter. Why did you do it? Because 'inquiring minds' want to know? Will the Forum soon be showing pictures of two headed babies. Cheddar, Camenbert, Danish Blue, Pont Leveque . . . cheezy, cheezy, cheezy tabloid journalism.

Stick to vaccinating dogs or whatever it is the fuck you do, you asshole!

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:04:26 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Yellow tabloid journalism
Message:
Can't you read English?

I've done this on the recipent's behalf, cause she knows the existence of this forum, she's not online, and wants the letter to be published and accessible to anybody.

She's the one who's been deeply hurt, and she wants everybody to see how the Rawats treated her!

THEY didn't do a single thing to help her out, when they could!

That's why.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 20:15:35 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Yellow tabloid journalism
Message:
Jean Michel,

Cheesemiester, you printed the letter and it was in invasion of privacy. It seems the Rawats treated her fine. What did she want, advice? My advice is to just surrender and meditate. Relax. Let it be, there will be an answer, let it be. That was the answer.

It was a breach of privacy.

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 23:14:45 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Yellow tabloid journalism
Message:
'My advice is to just surrender and meditate. Relax. Let it be, there will be an answer, let it be. That was the answer. '

That's right.......just like Derek Bentley's family did.....they just waited and everything was okay!!!!

Has every premie got this problem with dealing with facts?

You have the impertinance to make an issue about 'invasion of privacy'.

Are you as disgusted with prempal for, for example,for breaking promises to ashramees and throwing them out onto the street?

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