Yves -:- Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:41:18 (GMT)

__ Yves -:- Was 'accidental death' or ashram premie suicide? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:41:25 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Uh oh! Yves is a plant! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:30:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Yves -:- Thou impertinent common-kissing blind-worm. -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:34:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Yves -:- FA ALERT. Previous post contains fake death threat -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:47:01 (GMT)

__ Anon -:- Krishnasukanand and Mataji -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 10:44:40 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Krishnasukanand: what a fuc**** hypocrite! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:20:55 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- The problem is RAWAT -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:38:59 (GMT)

__ __ Mili -:- Would you be willing to testify to that in court? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:19:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- Would you be willing to testify to that in court? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:54:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ Yves -:- Ever seen clearer intimidation attempt? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:45:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Of course !!! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 13:24:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ Nigel -:- Is that a deposition? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:48:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Would you be willing to testify to that in court? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:29:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Hey! Mili!! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:49:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Yves -:- Let's meditate a little on that (NT) -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:06:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good one, John. Good one (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:55:33 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:07:12 (GMT)

__ __ buzz -:- Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:51:38 (GMT)

__ __ Tonette -:- M sure has gonr through some Mahatamas -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:29:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- What is so nice about someone -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:18:12 (GMT)

Zen -:- Anti-hack -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 20:33:09 (GMT)

Salam -:- AJW. -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:33:45 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- AJW. -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:43:26 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- AJW. -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:44:45 (GMT)

shp -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:28:10 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Questions... -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:34:22 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- I just resigned from working under a boss just -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:12:35 (GMT)

__ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:14:35 (GMT)

__ ExTex -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:07:04 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:05:07 (GMT)

__ Tonette -:- That's sad -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:57:46 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- Your reading comprehension is sad -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:13:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- 'things are 95% bad, 5% good' -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:45:59 (GMT)

__ bill -:- shp blind to 'open and humble' hearts. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:10:20 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- bill is conveniently blind to what shp said. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:28:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- what a funny idea!!!!!!! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 20:32:09 (GMT)

__ bill -:- They have thier families and friends!..good grief! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:53:26 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- They have thier families and friends!..good grief! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:06:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- Nothing to win here, shp, only stuff to lose. nt -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 20:36:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- Hmmm... -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:23:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- They have thier families and friends!..good grief! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:18:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ shp -:- They have thier families and friends!..good grief! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:46:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- They have thier families and friends!..good grief! -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:17:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Bill, totally awesome post! A scorcher! (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:58:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bill -:- Shp thinks the oneness is unconcious. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:28:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- What do you tell your kids!.........nt -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:30:02 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 02:44:31 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:20:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ DeProGram Anad Ji -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:25:41 (GMT)

__ Hopi 'Shaman' -:- 'Koyaanisquatsi' -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 02:21:21 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- shp - better than TED Farkel! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:47:08 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Happy Shining People -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:40:36 (GMT)

__ Mr Bubblehead -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:38:47 (GMT)

__ __ Scott T. -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:37:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- Neo Colonialism -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:32:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Methinks HE BUBBLES w/wisdom! True words! (NT) -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:34:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Precession -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:29:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- Precession -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:15:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Precession -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:02:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- Dingers and foam. -:- Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:04:23 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:29:07 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- bloopers/outtakes -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:39:03 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- bloopers/outtakes -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:49:02 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 21:30:20 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:26:15 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- solution or symptom? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:11:13 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- judge or observer? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:52:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- judge or observer? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:55:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Judgment. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:03:59 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Yeah, but why not give credit to Rev Moon too? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:38:24 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- That's not who we are talking about here, is it? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:59:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- That's not who we are talking about here, is it? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:19:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Forget about The Matrix -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:28:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- This could be the last time... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:38:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ shp -:- This could be the last time... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:03:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Does this mean... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:41:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- 'Only you know and I know'...remember Dave Mason? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:15:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ordinary People -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:41:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Your logic is platted Anth -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:20:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Ordinary People -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:28:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- you know my name ... you know you know my name ... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:12:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- If you were only here, Shp, I'd give you a hug (nt -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:10:52 (GMT)

__ gerry -:- Thoughts during recent travels -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:55:00 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- The Divine Muddle -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:44:52 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- I could not have called it anything else. -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:32:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ shp -:- reply to Salam -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:34:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Try harder -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:20:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- i'm givin' 'er evrthin' she's got cap'n!! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:04:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- i'm givin' 'er evrthin' she's got cap'n!! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:18:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Captain Pugwash -:- Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke!!!!!!! nt -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:15:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Try some club soda and lime, Captain Backwash! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:19:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Good morning shp. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:19:42 (GMT)

Cultbuster UK -:- This very special day -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 08:33:08 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Question to EV! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:04:36 (GMT)

__ __ Eric -:- The Question of Money -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 21:58:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Why can't EV simply show its books? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:29:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- The Question of Money -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:58:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ ExTex -:- The Question of Money -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:47:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tonette -:- Eric are you for real? -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:15:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Excellent, Tonette! (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:38:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- The Question of Money -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:44:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- The Question of Money -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:35:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The Question of Money -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:25:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jethro -:- Point of information -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:01:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Bullshit -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 22:41:10 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- £70,000 for Rawat for one trip to Paris - easy! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- no no no, much more !!!! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:31:21 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- Question to EV! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:38:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Don't forget that... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:42:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's private expenses are covered -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:47:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Rawat's private expenses are covered -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:00:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- EV said -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:27:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- So have tou got the numbers yet?..nt -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:24:04 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- First time ever a deficit for EV France ! -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 13:04:46 (GMT)

Jethro -:- alive and well(OT) -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 00:50:51 (GMT)

__ ham -:- Yo bro -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:38:45 (GMT)

__ bill -:- alive and well(OT) -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:32:09 (GMT)

__ __ Jerthro -:- alive and well(OT) -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:09:55 (GMT)

__ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- Please -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 05:48:56 (GMT)

TeddyTheTurtle -:- Saph's return from India..the dance cliub -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 15:26:13 (GMT)

__ cq -:- Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 18:52:13 (GMT)

__ __ Bin Liner -:- Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:16:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Eric -:- Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:58:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- How can we help it, it's the rotting vegetables, -:- Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:49:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Old Stuff? -:- Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:59:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Wouldn't ya know it, it's Mr. Move On, again! -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:36:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- This place serves a very useful purpose, Eric ... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:14:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:15:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- And also, so what? Who cares if he -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 01:53:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Gordon Showcase -:- Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 23:43:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Since you just LOVE the word -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:22:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ newboy -:- Give feedback to a recent ex-premmi.... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 00:44:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Ok, who's the shill? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:16:11 (GMT)

la-ex -:- feedback ,please,on..'The Immaculate Deception' -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 03:20:09 (GMT)

__ ExTex -:- feedback ,please,on..'The Immaculate Deception' -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 19:51:24 (GMT)

__ __ ExTex -:- PS -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:02:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Think of all the trees... -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:51:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- At least she never claimed to be a virgin. -:- Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:33:10 (GMT)

TED Farkel-'preemie' -:- I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 02:26:27 (GMT)

__ Eric -:- I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:08:45 (GMT)

__ __ gerry -:- There's no such thing as 'free will' -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:23:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Is the season for Mushrooms up yet?..nt -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 01:56:13 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 03:27:50 (GMT)

__ __ Wish -:- This TED, doesn't seem real -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 22:49:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gordon Showcase -:- This TED, doesn't seem real -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 23:55:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- You're dead right Gordon -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:53:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Do not say that about our little Teddy. -:- Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:00:26 (GMT)

Rudy/Ralph -:- Hoe did you know? -:- Sat, Sep 23, 2000 at 17:46:06 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Go and read about what is an IP address is..nt -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 05:09:11 (GMT)

__ Forum Adminstrator -:- Hoe did you know? -:- Sat, Sep 23, 2000 at 18:31:43 (GMT)

Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:41:18 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K Message:

Just read on French Forum from Jean-Michel mahatma Krishnasukanand was afflicted with a STD and shared it with premies. Jean-Michel said he took care of health care at the time. It seems like few mahatmas were celibate. Stay tuned for more about western initiators.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:41:25 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: Was 'accidental death' or ashram premie suicide? Message:

From the French forum. Interesting gossips which may develop into something else or may disrepute the rat (which is shorter than rawat). Bry sur Marnes ashram, France. Way back then. Ashram premie died of electrocution. Officially, an accident but victim was reported suicidal. Questions: Which mahatma visited Bry sur Marnes prior to that? Was the ashram premie in need of medical care before her death? Same ashram. Same era. Another ashram premie loose an eye. Questions: Was the ashram premie too keen on light technique? Was the light technique changed aroud that era? Why were both incidents kept secret?

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:30:45 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Yves Subject: Uh oh! Yves is a plant! Message:

Same ashram. Same era. Another ashram premie loose an eye. Sorry, Yves, just kidding but that is the official premie misspelling of the word 'lose'. 'Loose', en englais, is what my pants would be if I ever lost some weight.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:34:20 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thou impertinent common-kissing blind-worm. Message:

A fool go with thy soul, whither it goes, thou impertinent common-kissing blind-worm. Thou hast liv'd too long, thou wouldst eat thy dead vomit up. This language is so complicated. Just to insult someone, I need either a dictionnary or an internet insult generator. Furthermore I always get 'Micheal' when 'Michael'('s answer) is needed and sometimes get 'belive', 'beleive' or 'believe'. Darn, which witch is which? Why not all agree on something simple like... I don't know. French for instance. A mistrial is better than a guilt verdict. Conga and keep-up.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:47:01 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Yves Subject: FA ALERT. Previous post contains fake death threat Message:

'Thou hast liv'd too long, thou wouldst eat thy dead vomit up.' Is not to be taken litterally. It was just a decoration just as swords worn by comedians aren't meant to slice live flesh. It was a joke. Please don't call the police.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 10:44:40 (GMT) From: Anon Email: None To: Yves Subject: Krishnasukanand and Mataji Message:

I got knowledge from Krishnasuchanand July 28 1974. Went along with me flower after months of jumbling and daily satsangs at the Palace of Peace. I thought he was cool. I agree, no point in dissing all the people who smoked dope or weren't celibate. Good for them, they probably had more fun than pure little ole me. It was naughty for them to preach abstinence to others though. Hypocitical. Incidently I am working with a German chap who turns out to have been an early premie. He was involved in DLM in germany and freaked when he saw how people were leaving their families etc. He started (with some other renegade premies) to pamphlet satsangs and basically undermine Mataji's attempts to establish DLM there. He had a quite heavy battle with her apparently.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:20:55 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Anon Subject: Krishnasukanand: what a fuc**** hypocrite! Message:

I remember waiting for him, when he was out in the evening for some special unscheduled meeeting ..... hahahaha such an hypocrite!! And me, such a stupid naive faithful ashram premie, helping him curing his infection .... hahahaha!!!!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:38:59 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Yves Subject: The problem is RAWAT Message:

I've spent quite some time with this guy, and he was definitely a nice folk. My opinion is that he was a sincere young man, and he had been chosen my Mataji as an instructor on her criteria. He was quite well educated, but not a very responsible person. Not to talk about his bogus 'spirituality'. The origin of the problem was Mataji. Same thing for Rawat now. They chose assistants among the folks that manage to climb EV's hierarchy, or are well brainwashed and good slaves. The problem is Rawat and his so-called 'teaching'. Morality has never been a criteria for heeeeeem. He doesn't know how to spell it. How could he? What can you expect from such a 'teacher'? Look, there is so much evidence. Did he say you recognize a master by his fruits? His assistants spread STD, assault and rape premies, molest children, leave with the cash ......

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:19:59 (GMT) From: Mili Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Would you be willing to testify to that in court? Message:

Unsubstantiated allegations are bound to get you in trouble sooner or later.

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 19:54:20 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mili Subject: Would you be willing to testify to that in court? Message:

Hi there, Mili Last time I spoke to you (via this forum, in case you forgot) I asked about your claim that ex-premie.org suppposedly 'lied' (according to you) about the history of Mr Rawat as portrayed on their http://www.ex-premie.org' website. Since then, you've been silent about those QUOTE 'alleged lies/unsubstantiated allegations'.ENDQUOTE. Which 'lies' (not that they are, but I can understand your cult's reasons for claiming that they are) were you refering to? (for the second time of asking)?

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:45:31 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: Mili Subject: Ever seen clearer intimidation attempt? Message:

Let's see if FA reacts to this one.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 13:24:33 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mili Subject: Of course !!! Message:

I've been travelling with him for a while !!! .... and I have an excellent lawyer !!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:48:25 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Mili Subject: Is that a deposition? Message:

BTW: Perhaps you should make that 'AS YET unstubstantied allegations...' As you know, Mili, there is a body of first-hand evidence building up in support of various claims, and as you suggest, a court of law would be an EXCELLENT place to test their veracity (starting with a Jagdeo child-abuse hearing, of course.)

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:29:39 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Mili Subject: Would you be willing to testify to that in court? Message:

There are plenty of people ready to testify in court Mili, and who knows, we may yet get our chance. There are still plenty of grubs crawling out the woodpile and the evidence is piling up. Anth the willing witness.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:49:36 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Mili Subject: Hey! Mili!! Message:

TRY THIS!

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 17:06:21 (GMT) From: Yves Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Let's meditate a little on that (NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 19:55:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Good one, John. Good one (nt) Message:

bbbbb

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:07:12 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Yves Subject: Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K Message:

For the record: Saphlanand was a truly sincere and righteous bloke, folks. I think M. liked him because he was a pilot, too. Supposedly, Saph got demoted for smoking the green stuff. I distinctly remember him sharing some bowls with other premies on our various travels (San Francisco) in the really old days of DLM. He seemed rather dejected, at the time -- as if M. had cast him off. I wonder what happened to him -- and how he's doing these days? I hope he's alive and doing well. There's probably no point in dredging up some of the stuff, though, or dissing the actually sincere folks who occasionally indulged in typical hippie stuff of the era. For that matter, that would probably include most of the premies I've ever known -- and I've known a whole bunch of people close to M. over the years. If a so-called mahatma gave STDs to premies while in an official capacity -- that might be another matter, indeed. Peace and Love, brother

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:51:38 (GMT) From: buzz Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Krishnasukanand the mahatma who spread STD and K Message:

Yes i remember Saph when he was in leicester,nice guy,like you say liked the green stuff!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:29:38 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: M sure has gonr through some Mahatamas Message:

Seems like M had more Mahatams/instructors/initiators than Carter has little liver pills. And that's not counting the ashram premies!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:18:12 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Tonette Subject: What is so nice about someone Message:

walking around stuffing his dick in everyhole knowing that he is sick. He should be jailed instead.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 20:33:09 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Anti-hack Message:

To the hacker/s it sounds You Pº Príncipe, Vancouver, London. Position in knowledge of the competent authorities. I have the IP's and the redirecciones.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:33:45 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: AJW. Message:

Just making sure that was you. yes no.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:43:26 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Salam Subject: AJW. Message:

Twas indeed Salam? Did you get my questions? Anth the Walrus

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:44:45 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: AJW. Message:

coming through.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:28:10 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

Recently I have been doing alot of travelling in my work. I have had the chance to observe large numbers of people on trains, in hotels, at large professional gatherings, on the streets of large cities. The whole panorama has been like the movie 'Quoyannascazzi' (I am sure that the spelling is wrong. If you get a chance to see this movie, I heartily recommend it.) Anyway, I like to observe people. I like to look at their faces and into their eyes without getting weird about it or making them uncomfortable. I look for what people seem to be going through and experiencing on a personal level. A vast majority of folks seem to have a vacancy, a light or two out in their eyes, as if something is missing or not in service. I mean a vast majority. Very few people look at each other in the eye anymore, greet each other, or have any contact with people they don't know. Fear of strangers and preoccupation with one's own existence have pretty much blocked human contact and communication on a daily basis, at least in the part of the world I am in, which is the northeastern United States. I am sure this is so in other places too, especially where large populations are gathered. There are always the few open ones, the talkers who seem to be comfortable wherever they are, and the silent ones who emanate peace. But these people are in a vast minority. If you saw the movie 'the Matrix', it was like the scenes of so-called 'everyday life', where everyone was in an illusion and didn't know it, except for the ones who had been pulled out of it by their own inner desire to be and subsequent contact with those who could help them out. As I was taking a train home one day, I could not help but notice how isolated most everyone seemed to be. I thought about the common denominator that we all share - life and breath itself - and how the air between the people on that train and in the whole world could be so much warmer and friendlier -truly peaceful- with the addition of consciousness....consciousness of who we are and what our relationships are as members of the human species. Then I thought about Knowledge and how it opened me up when I received it. I thought about how Maharaji has been working to bring Knowledge to as many people as possible in a world full of fear and suspicion, to encompass everyone on that train I was on and beyond in the love that is within us already. Quite a task. I thought about how much I want to live in a world of peace,love and trust. There are many saintly people cleaning up their own neighborhoods, but not very many trying to reach the whole planet. Maharaji happens to be one of them. Wasn't that a wish we all shared once?...to help save the planet on all levels and live happy lives in a peaceful world? Not pollyanna style, but for real. And now all you talk about here on this site are what you deem as the bloopers and the outtakes, and you have missed the main event, being the bringing of more consciousness into the human race. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize anything from a sports event to politics to other people and even to someone working for the upliftment of human consciousness on a global scale. Very easy to sit back and criticize. Yet as I sat on that train and had previously walked the streets of NYC, Boston and Washington DC and looked into the eyes of so many people, I KNEW I had an awareness of something that would make them all much happier if they had the same awareness too. Something that takes no buildings, no rituals, no trappings, no books, no chants, no other requirements other than a human body and an open and humble heart. Totally built-in and portable. Realizing this once again reinforced my understanding that this Knowledge is genuine. You know me, I could go on and on, but I think I made my point. You can criticize the changes, the paradoxes, the seeming contradictions forever. Whatever you look for is what you will find. And if you want to complain, you will always be able to find an excuse to do so. 'Imperfection' is part and parcel of the physical plane. If you look for perfection in 3-D's you will never find it, and your accusations and critiques will seemingly hold water, always. My experience is that the main event of Maharaji's life is not how much material plane he has or what is happening with his family or in his personal relationships. While you here sit around and criticize him, he is working. Yes, he plays too, which is also a teaching for people, to learn how to play and enjoy this world too, but without becoming attached to it. So when you have a chance, when you tire momentarily from being constantly negative about Maharaji, take a moment and a breath and remember something positive, if you have the courage and the love. You know there is something positive there to remember if you received Knoweldge and had even the slightest glimpse of the beauty inside of your own self. If things are 95% 'bad' and 5% 'good', no problem... focus on the 5%. shp ps note to Jim: I know you don't care about what I think and how you fantacize representing the whole group and how you claim that no one else appreciates anything I say either. I am saving you time and energy by acknowledging in advance how you feel, so you can go on with your life without having to sully yourself on this thread with the likes of me. Better yet, take that time you would use to ream me and look inside yourself for that beauty you once appreciated which was made evident to you via Knowledge. That would be time well spent. If you spent as much time on your profession as Maharaji spends on his, you'd propbably be much more successful at what you do. Try it. And then when people criticize you for enjoying yourself and the fruits of your labor in style in your downtime, you can empathize with the person you so vehemently criticize. The price of the bottle of Scotch on your shelf could have fed starving children. So practice what you preach or shut the hell up.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:34:22 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: shp Subject: Questions... Message:

Why do people tell me I look stressed out when I am quietly buzzing with well-being and inspiration? Why do they tell me I'm looking well when I feel like death warmed up? How come it is always the work-colleague with the calm, spacey, unworldly, detached expression who is most likely to take time off with bad nerves or depression? ..while the hyperactive nail-biters who get a lot done, all the while cursing and swearing about their lot in life who are also the ones who will truly let their hair down and know how to have a good time when the time is right? Why don't the kindest, happiest, most compassionate people I know look more like premies? Why aren't the premies I know the kindest, happiest or most compassionate people? How come we know so little of others until we know more than a little about them - or at least how they appear on the surface? Why on earth would a 'perfect master' need you to plead his case, if he's already on the case?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:12:35 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: shp Subject: I just resigned from working under a boss just Message:

like you shp, and you know what, the place has disintegrated because of her denial of the problems, so all the good staff have left, but hey she's still focusing on the good stuff so that's ok. Can't have any clouds now can we? And the concept shattering learning, where does that come from shp? In my experience here in the uk, people are a mixture of happy and unhappy, meet plenty of great people out and about, really great, alive and going for it, with vibrant 'eyes' if you will view people in such a detached way, seems to me that you're trying so hard to be 'there' and be able to explain it, you're out of rhythm with yourself and are distancing yourself from people around you, which is hardly an encouragement for open contact so you get closed, instead of open, contact. Been there, done it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:14:35 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: n/a To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

You are delusional and merely spewing rhetoric that has been spoon fed to you in M's cult. Actually you have dehumanized every one on the planet because you have been brainwashed to believe that you know somthing that they don't. It's elitist thinking, arrogance really, you think you are special, one of the chosen few. How unfortunate those lowly mortals are who don't have M's special K. How compassionate of you to look down on them with pity, your assholiness. Yes we all read Walden and know about the masses living their quiet lives of desperation ect. We all long for a purposeful and meaningful existance, that's how we all got sucked into M's cult. M saw that we were Idealists and he exploited us for his own selfish gain. He continues to do so. Battered wives and victims of incest also hold dear that 5% of the relationship that is good. It's called being in denial, refusing to acknowledge the reality of your situation. I'll take the pedestrain but real life of an everyday person over self-deception and delusion of living in M's dream world any day of the week thank-you.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:07:04 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

.' I thought about the common denominator that we all share - life and breath itself - and how the air between the people on that train and in the whole world could be so much warmer and friendlier -truly peaceful- with the addition of consciousness....consciousness of who we are and what our relationships are as members of the human species.' --------------------------------------------------------------- This Extex throws these thoughts out at you, my friend: If you stop listening to that LIMITING CULT-SPEAK for a minute and use your brain...you just might find out that there are a whole lot more 'common denominators' that all humans share! Besides the fact that we all are breathing or 'being breathed'. And you know what? 'SO WHAT? SO WHAT?' We all have to take a shit! Or we are 'being shitted'. That is one cosmic force that NO ONE can stop! Let's all just focus on the Holy Turd for an hour a day! We all feel pain if we hit our thumb with a hammer! Hammer meditation anyone? (Self administered not Fakiranand style) We all die! Suicide pacts for devotional bliss? Let's just go to THAT place. And I do not think being warmer and friendlier with every Tom, Dick and Mary on a train is my idea of being peaceful! Being left alone to mind my own business is my idea of peacefulness. There are a lot of people in this world that I do not want to have anything to do with...thank you very much! There are a lot of people that I do not want to have a warm talk with because they are a BORING WASTE OF MY LIFE! But you say, ExTex, what's needed is- 'the addition of consciousness....consciousness of who we are and what our relationships are as members of the human species' Well Bub, OUR RELATIONSHIPS AS MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN SPECIES are defined by our CLASS, as far as I'm concerned. And no cosmic mumbo jumbo is going to change that! As long as there are fat rich Indian dudes sitting around posing as some SPIRITUAL MONARCHY while there are millions starving... there will be the REALITY of CLASS RELATIONSHIPS! Just WHO ARE WE? And WHAT ARE OUR RELATIONSHIPS AS MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN SPECIES? I'll tell you...THE HAVES and THE HAVE-NOTS! Your 'master' is a PARASITE/HAVE!! Your sentiments are heartfelt, I am sure, but you are sound asleep to 'this life'. Take a look at the suffering in the fucking world, the shitheads, the creeps, the horror...THE REAL PAIN!!! Get your head out from under that blanket and OPEN YOUR EYES! There is a lot of stuff really going on that you are just blowing off to bliss out at some rich scam artists feet. SELF-INDULGENT, SELF ABSORBED ELITIST NONSENSE! You really care about those 'empty eyes' on that bus? NO! Oh, I forgot...the suffering in the world is all illusion...all maya! TELL THAT TO A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO HAS BEEN RAPED AND BEATEN BY A COUPLE OF GROWN MEN! OR A 5 YEAR OLD STARVING TO DEATH IN A WORLD FULL OF FOOD! TRY JUST BEING MACED IN THE FACE BY SOME COP THEN KICKED IN THE CROTCH FOR AN ILLUSION! Oh it's only MAYA, luv. Follow Mahara-ji and you will be blissful. BAH!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:05:07 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

I did not mention that I had to physically shield my son from the mindless rushing and crushing crowd twice that day - once at Madison Square Garden and again at Penn Station when the track number lit up right before train time. Yeah, crowds of humans acting like freaking animals...I'm not naiive to the cruelties. I also understand and agree with you about peace is being left alone sometimes, but not because you can't stand the people around you, but because you just want to be left alone at that time. You and just about everyone else who has commented have chosen to demonize everything I said and twist it to sound the way you must have it to sound to perpetuate your negative view of premies. I don't have to defend myself from your accusations or anyone else's. I know what I said, what I meant and who I am. Your opinion of what I said does not define me, nor is it an accurate description.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:57:46 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: shp Subject: That's sad Message:

If that is your experience with Knowledge are you sure that's something you really want to pursue? You're so separate and alone with the thoughts that your Master is the only true thing.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:13:01 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Your reading comprehension is sad Message:

If that is your experience with Knowledge are you sure that's something you really want to pursue? You're so separate and alone with the thoughts that your Master is the only true thing. -Tonette What the hell are you talking about, Tonette? Where did you come up with that interpretation? You sound like an old tape cartridge that accidentally got turned on out of sync. There are many people and relationships that I hold dear and precious in my life in additon to my teacher. The true thing right now is the energy field between us that we are communicating within as I type and you read and respond if you so wish. This is just as holy a moment as any other in all time and space. It feels like your comment was like a football player who jumps on the pile long after the play is over, just for the hell of it. -shp

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 15:45:59 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: shp Subject: 'things are 95% bad, 5% good' Message:

If that is your perception of life through the 'eyes' of Knowledge then I recommend you get a different gig. Your narrow-mindeness is appalling.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:10:20 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: shp blind to 'open and humble' hearts. Message:

damn shp, I used to have the same elitist premie seperation from others. So, we are all 'attached' are we, to our work and play. You dont know people so you judge them en masse and think they are leading vacant lives. Needing only to view life in some certain way to be rescued from attachment and suffering. Meanwhile, there is no god, is there shp. Just the freaking master and his apologist.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:28:53 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: bill is conveniently blind to what shp said. Message:

damn shp, I used to have the same elitist premie seperation from others. -bill sorry, bill, I have no such elitist attitude. -shp So, we are all 'attached' are we, to our work and play. -bill You tell me, buddy. -shp You dont know people so you judge them en masse and think they are leading vacant lives. -bill This sounds more like the consensus of exers towards premies than my feelings towards my fellow human beings, each of whom I respect and look for the divinity within them. -shp Needing only to view life in some certain way to be rescued from attachment and suffering. -bill Hey, if you want to suffer, knock yourself out. I'm not into pain, it's not my cup of tea. -shp Meanwhile, there is no god, is there shp. Just the freaking master and his apologist. -bill There most certainly is God. And I am not an apologist. Sounds good though for your picture painting party of who you'd like to make me into. You know me, bill. There's more going on here than the Jerry Springer antics that run rampant on this site whenever a premie sticks out his or her neck around here. Why don't you just stop calling this a Forum, stop leaving an open invitiation for premies to come around, make it exclusively an ex-prmeie site, set up firewalls against premies, and be honest about what this place is, which is defintitely not a Forum. If you want a healing center for ex-premies, call it so and make it so. But don't blame me or any other premie for participating in something that we are invited to and then attack us and twist our words. I think the reason that you leave the door open to premies is that somewhere deep inside some of you there is the hope that someone will come along and explain the paradoxes and the contradicitons and that you will get the answers and the resolutions to the questions and issues that made you leave in the first place. I think that hope exists in the hearts of some of the exers, and not all of you are totally sold 100% that Maharaji is the fraud you say he is. I am not the answer man. I am just another person like you, but who sees it differently.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 20:32:09 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: shp Subject: what a funny idea!!!!!!! Message:

Do you really, genuinely think that exes leave the door open for premies because they are hoping for some answers??????? giggle You have to remember that exes used to be premies too, and our memories are working well, hahahaha. Could it possibly be, oh no don't say it, oh yes I am going to, could it possibly be that exes want to help premies get the chance to discover for themselves that the cult is a little pond in the world at large. And yes, shp, in my opinion, you have demonstrated the typical arrogance and elitism of the premie mindset.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:53:26 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: They have thier families and friends!..good grief! Message:

You know shipper, you talked about lack of connection between people and then you make this HUGE allowance for rawats devastated family life. If he knew ANYTHING important in life, it would be how to live in love with others. That has NEVER been on his priority list and he has worked damn hard to get people to have coldness with those that wanted to love and be close with them. Forget about getting close to some vibe/god. Those religious guys with the 'spiritual attainment' rap just deflect people from following thier heart and having close relationships of love with those around them. What did YOU DO??? I DONT SEE YOU MENTIONING ALL THE CONVERSATIONS WITH TOTAL STRANGERS YOU HAD. AND ALL THE FUN YOU HAD IN LINES WITH OTHERS. AND WHAT THE NAME OF THE GUY YOU MET IN THE STORE IS. AND HOW YOU MADE A MOMENT SPECIAL FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY NEEDED A FRIEND.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:06:32 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: They have thier families and friends!..good grief! Message:

Yeah, bill, I did all those things you screamed at me in caps about, but if I had written them all down, I would have been reamed for saying how righteous I was. You know me. You know I did those things. You know and I know I can't win here unless I say the magic words that would make me an ex. Then, all of a sudden my words would be golden.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 20:36:22 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: shp Subject: Nothing to win here, shp, only stuff to lose. nt Message:

tt

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 12:23:04 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: shp Subject: Hmmm... Message:

You know something, shp, you could be right about that. Of course, you'll never know unless you give it a go! Let's try this... sotto voce at first... Nothing I can feel that can't be felt Nothing but lard that I can melt Nothing I can do that can't be done Nothing to lose but that lying bum Nothing to be except the way I feel inside It's easy... Shp, I reckon we got something you need, else you wouldn't drop by so much, my little flower.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:18:06 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: They have thier families and friends!..good grief! Message:

I dont care if you are an ex, it is the attitude that makes me crosseyed. When you type you think you are makeing a heartfelt observation. I know that. But since you are in the hands of a godless man who has a lifelong aversion to having and reccomending close personal love relationships, and he has made great efforts and portrayed himself as god himself to back up his demands that I love no one but him. And that I live only for him. His value is nothing. The last thing humans need is to have a cold confused meglomaniac enthroned on the seat of god. The next act is where the follower is left with only the faulty master and no god whatsoever. Like you shp

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 14:46:58 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: They have thier families and friends!..good grief! Message:

But since you are in the hands of a godless man who has a lifelong aversion to having and reccomending close personal love relationships, and he has made great efforts and portrayed himself as god himself to back up his demands that I love no one but him. -bill This allegedly 'godless man' you speak of who 'has a lifelong aversion to having and recommending close personal love relationships' was married at 16 and has fathered four children. He doens't sound like someone with an aversion to loving human relationships. Perhaps you took him took literally and heard what you wanted to hear. We all had choices to be in the ashram or not. I was never told that I had to join the ashram to be a premie. You made choices and blame him for the outcome. And that I live only for him. -bill To have a life and enjoy it was never denied us, and to live 'only for him' takes on a deeper meaning than your superficial take on it. His value is nothing. The last thing humans need is to have a cold confused meglomaniac enthroned on the seat of god. -bill I don't see him as cold and confused. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am not here to convince you that he is not. -shp The next act is where the follower is left with only the faulty master and no god whatsoever. -bill So you have the script, eh? You know the future, right? hahaha

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 03:17:10 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: They have thier families and friends!..good grief! Message:

its not the future. Its the present. I wont read your posts anymore. Have a good life.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:58:28 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: bill Subject: Bill, totally awesome post! A scorcher! (nt) Message:

Wow!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:28:33 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: Shp thinks the oneness is unconcious. Message:

Mind explaining how much better it is for the folks you see to jettison thier view that there is a freindly god for a world where the master of life and his family shun each other for decades...... Whatever do you tell your kids!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:30:02 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: What do you tell your kids!.........nt Message:

dfgj

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 02:44:31 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

Hey shp-two thoughts I had while reading your rather lengthy discourse.Of course, the point seemed to be that we'd all be better off with the big k and the big m in our lives. 1.-90-95% of the people who ever received k in the west have left, basically saying 'no thanks'. And out of the remaining ones, how many do you think practice every day for a minimum of one hour, and really experience anything profound in meditation? If it really works so well and is so simple,why is that? 2.-you seem to pre-judging Jim pretty harshly.Is this how you advertise the master's knowledge?Is this what you want on your sandwich board for maharaji?(he's said that the premies are his advertising) Are you sure you're not just 'thinking' about the experience you claim to have, reather than truelly 'having'it? I ask that sincerely, because that is my honest assessment of most of the premies I know and observe in my community. Most of them seem very depressed and removed from life. I have come to see them as people who think a lot about m and k, but don't really experience it or live it, except for a brief time during programs... I have heard m say the same thing to premies at his house in the last year or two...

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:20:01 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

Hey shp-two thoughts I had while reading your rather lengthy discourse.Of course, the point seemed to be that we'd all be better off with the big k and the big m in our lives. 1.-90-95% of the people who ever received k in the west have left, basically saying 'no thanks'. And out of the remaining ones, how many do you think practice every day for a minimum of one hour, and really experience anything profound in meditation? If it really works so well and is so simple,why is that? >It was never, isn't now, nor will it ever be a popularity contest or a game of numbers. In such a materialistic culture as the west is, I am not surprised by the numbers. It is not an indictment of Knowledge, but I would say rather more of the attention span, seriousness and preparedness for K on the part of many of the recipients, not to their personal dicredit necessarily. -shp 2.-you seem to pre-judging Jim pretty harshly.Is this how you advertise the master's knowledge?Is this what you want on your sandwich board for maharaji?(he's said that the premies are his advertising) > Jim and I have some history here. He has repeatedly gone on the same tirade every time I have recently posted to the effect that 'we' don't want you here' and 'nobody wants to here from you'. I merely made a pre-emptive statement to address that. Premies are not doormats for exers to wipe their feet on, just to bust another concept. Having Knowledge does not involve castration on any level in this era. Rather, I find it empowering on all levels including being outspoken and forthright here. Are you sure you're not just 'thinking' about the experience you claim to have, reather than truelly 'having'it? >I am not 'all that' or 'totally realized', ya know? I don't practice daily, but I don't approach Knowledge like a religion either. The experience, being what it is, can always be deeper and more intense with more attention. I do not consider myself a 'good or bad' premie...I don't think anyone knows about that but the student and the teacher. -shp I ask that sincerely, because that is my honest assessment of most of the premies I know and observe in my community. Most of them seem very depressed and removed from life. I have come to see them as people who think a lot about m and k, but don't really experience it or live it, except for a brief time during programs... >If that is your view of premies, I guess I don't fit your mold. It's easy to experience Knowledge under a sheet in the privacy of one's own home, but living the truth in the world-not buying into business lies and corproate bullshit just to keep a job is more along the lines of what I consider living it. And since I spend more time in the world than under a sheet, what goes on during the day matters alot to me that I remain true to myself. As for thinking alot about M and K as you put it, I don't. It's more like a part of me that I don't have to think about to feel or experience. And I don't have to talk aobut it all day to feel connected. I may have life situations that bring me down for a spell, but I don't live in the negativity or dwell on it. Shit happens to everybody, it's how we deal with it that defines us. -shp I have heard m say the same thing to premies at his house in the last year or two... >Whatever we pay attention to is what we get more of. We need to pay more attention to the joy in life and not ignore the problems but not let them bring us down either while we find solutions to our life situations. -shp

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:25:41 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anad Ji Email: n/a To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

That M sure is one smart guy! Focus on the positive, awsome man, what a Prophetic Insight! Iv'e never heard that before, a man with that much wisdom deserves at least half of your income and a brand new jet! NOT!!!!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 02:21:21 (GMT) From: Hopi 'Shaman' Email: None To: shp Subject: 'Koyaanisquatsi' Message:

'Koyaanisquatsi'... Hopi term/prophecy, meaning 'Chaos, out of which must come order. Our 'Zietgeist'?

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:47:08 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: shp Subject: shp - better than TED Farkel! Message:

This guy is absolutely fantastic! You can't make up a character like shp. Too unbelievable!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:40:36 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: shp Subject: Happy Shining People Message:

Happy Shining People! shp, please, please can't you just leave us alone in our misery? We are finally making progress with good people like TED Farkel and now you arrive back on the scene with your satsang. Damn, I wish I had my happy shining people email that I got from you last year. Geez, you and Abner Louima sure were pissed off.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:38:47 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

I think the problem is that we have no culture, or none that has any meaning. We used to have, and it's easy to trace this malaise back to it's beginnings. There's no zip, no zap, no direction. People weren't made to be crowded onto trains like cattle (neither were cattle), to work at jobs that bore them, then go home to be entertained by electronics. If you get away from the cities and into the country or the mountains, then there's still a sense of community. We need fresh air, clean food and meaningful relationships and frienships to learn to spread our wings. My advise is to chuck your job, and head for the mountains, get a little land, grow your own food, etc.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:37:07 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

Mr. Bubblehead: The Japanese have been living in fairly crowded conditions for a long time, and haven't seen any serious deterioration of their culture until recently... coinciding with the legalization of the birth control pill. Not that it isn't nice to go for a walk in the woods or along the seashore once in awhile. Freedom from certain kinds of constraints that affect family structure always lead to social upheaval, until we figure out how to handle it. This is a tough one. --Scott

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:32:32 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Neo Colonialism Message:

Mr Scott, Japan is surely a paradox if ever there was one, but they do have a strong culture. I see Globalism and the spread of Western values (now there's an oxymoron), as the continueing colonialisation of the rest of the world by the West. There are little pockets of resistance however and that gives one hope. Mr Bubblehead

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:34:57 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Methinks HE BUBBLES w/wisdom! True words! (NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:29:10 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Precession Message:

Mr. B: Well, I figure that if the rule of law sneaks in as part of the colonualist legacy it's a big net benefit. Considering classical colonialism, the variable that has the highest correlation with whether or not a country adopts democracy is whether it was ever a British colony. Mind you, I'm not condoning exploitation. Just pointing out that pollen is usually deposited at 90 degrees to the purposeful striving of the bee. --Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:15:29 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Precession Message:

MR Scott Asia is now talking of Asian values, as opposed to the values of the West. We may not agree with them, but it gives me hope that there are still nation states who will only accept Globalism on there own terms. While a fledgling movement, many of the youth of third world countries are turning away from western values and globalism over which they have little control. While the concept of Neo Colonialism, via Globalism, can be argued against, nearly all the ideas flow from the conquerer to the conquered. Which brings us to the bees.....90 degrees you say? Mr Bubblehead

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 20:02:31 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Precession Message:

Mr. B: Asia is now talking of Asian values, as opposed to the values of the West. We may not agree with them, but it gives me hope that there are still nation states who will only accept Globalism on there own terms. Since I don't know what Asian values you're talking about I can't really make a meaningful comment. What I can say is that both colonialism and asian values are a mixed legacy. For colonialism: on one hand there is Amritsar, and on the other there's the notion that rulers and subjects are governed by the same rules. This is not just a western ideal but a British one. While a fledgling movement, many of the youth of third world countries are turning away from western values and globalism over which they have little control. While the concept of Neo Colonialism, via Globalism, can be argued against, nearly all the ideas flow from the conquerer to the conquered. Which brings us to the bees.....90 degrees you say? Again, I'm not clear what western values you regard as suspect. Perhaps more parity in sharing of sovereignty would be beneficial, but it's hard to imagine that there's much choice about whether to accept globalism in the long run. What they're looking for, if they're smart, is leverage to negotiate better terms, and time to construct appropriate institutions. The rule of law only developed in England, as an institution designed to resolve the feuds of 'feudalism,' but it unintentionally conditioned England to become the dominant power of the age of colonialism. The bottom line is that no western democracy is going to share sovereignty with a non-Lockean regime, and conversion of an 'Asian' mindset to Lockeanism is, to some degree, an unintended consequence of colonialism. It, ironically, renders the subject 'nation' more able to resist the unsavory elements of power and domination (as it did in the US during the 18th century). I see no principle that says unintended consequences flow exclusively from the powerful to the weak either, for the weak also strive purposefully and there is also a resultant at 90 degrees that impacts the cultural conditions of the powerful. England was not the first democracy. If we have something to learn about 'asian values' it will undoubtedly be from the very Asian democracies that we helped to establish. BTW, the birth control pill was only legalized in Japan in 1999... so we have yet to see the impact. --Scott

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Date: Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:04:23 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Dingers and foam. Message:

Interesting post Mr Scott. Again, I'm not clear what western values you regard as suspect. Western values are based on the bottom line...money. It all comes back to that. BTW, the birth control pill was only legalized in Japan in 1999... so we have yet to see the impact. I never thought the birth control pill had much to do with anything that happened in the sixties and seventies. With the vibe that was going around then, people were going to fuck around whether there was a pill or not. There were other forms of birth control around then as now. With scaries like Aids and Hepatitis around, I think the Japanese will be responsible in their use of the pill, if in fact they embrace it. The Japanese are very responsible people. Mr Bubblehead.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:29:07 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

I think the problem is that we have no culture, or none that has any meaning. We used to have, and it's easy to trace this malaise back to it's beginnings. There's no zip, no zap, no direction. People weren't made to be crowded onto trains like cattle (neither were cattle), to work at jobs that bore them, then go home to be entertained by electronics. If you get away from the cities and into the country or the mountains, then there's still a sense of community. We need fresh air, clean food and meaningful relationships and frienships to learn to spread our wings. My advise is to chuck your job, and head for the mountains, get a little land, grow your own food, etc. -Mr. B Been there done that, Mr. B. You are a man after my own heart. In 1971, I left college to live on the Farm in Tennessee. The goal was healthy babies, fresh air, clean food, sanity. Thing is people live in the cities and change happens from within the mainstream of a culture, not from the outside. So here we are. Someday, I hope to see a large part of the world, including myself, living like you described, and I think it will be out of necessity. There are classic stories of those who left for the life you described only to be flooded out, droughted out, etc. Which underscores the fact that the only really peaceful sanctuary is inside, not outside. Motive plays a big part. -shp

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:39:03 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: shp Subject: bloopers/outtakes Message:

shp says: 'all you talk about on this site are what you deem as the bleepers (sic) and the outtakes, missing the main event' No, no! YOU deem the material discussed here as bleepers and outtakes. WE think it is significant that your Master appears to have spent more time gulping cognac than quieting his mind on the meditation cushion. I too, have had experiences such as yours, seeing others as lost in their illusions, our illusion. I have also had experiences on public transportation in bad parts of town where everyone seemed to be illuminated; a bus full of Buddhas. Sandy, it's what you make of it. You attribute supernatural powers to a guru who most people haven't heard of, or if they have, they think he's a joke. You feel special because you know something they don't. We know how you feel, Sandy, because WE USED TO FEEL THE SAME WAY! I don't mind your posting here, but, Jesus, what a lost cause! We know exactly the feeling you are talking about. We used to feel that way! We've moved on! You haven't! Maybe you're going to the Lotus Feet when you die and we're going to the compost heap with the rest of the rotting vegetables, maybe not. Believe me, brother, this is the least likely place in cyberspace to get converts. Try a random chat room where they are unfamiliar with your Master's Hindu-lite history. You'll have better luck.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:49:02 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Gregg Subject: bloopers/outtakes Message:

shp says: 'all you talk about on this site are what you deem as the bleepers (sic) and the outtakes, missing the main event' No, no! YOU deem the material discussed here as bleepers and outtakes. WE think it is significant that your Master appears to have spent more time gulping cognac than quieting his mind on the meditation cushion. -gregg How do you know or assume to judge Maharaji's time spent on cognac vs meditation? And if you respected him as your teacher, you wouldn't even go there. -shp I too, have had experiences such as yours, seeing others as lost in their illusions, our illusion. I have also had experiences on public transportation in bad parts of town where everyone seemed to be illuminated; a bus full of Buddhas. -gregg So have I. I make effort to sit there and just know that everyone has the spark of the divine inside, no matter what the outer manifestation is. That's when the lights in the trains seems to surge and everything gets brighter, just from asking for a blessing on the people around me. I don't just sit there and feel better than them or something stupid like that. The slant you and others have put on my original post is that I sat there and felt superior and special on the train which cannot be further from the truth. -shp Sandy, it's what you make of it. You attribute supernatural powers to a guru who most people haven't heard of, or if they have, they think he's a joke. You feel special because you know something they don't. -gregg What I feel is a burden in my heart to walk among my fellow human beings without fear and worry about the cares of this world as I go about my business and allow as much light and love and good energy to pass through me, with or without words or direct contact with others. -shp We know how you feel, Sandy, because WE USED TO FEEL THE SAME WAY! I don't mind your posting here, but, Jesus, what a lost cause! We know exactly the feeling you are talking about. We used to feel that way! We've moved on! You haven't! -gregg I was thinking about childhood, adolescence and adulthood. In childhood, the child look to his or her parents or teachers as perfect and invincible, without flaw. In adolesecence, we begin to notice the imperfections and apparent hypocrisies of our parents and teachers, perhaps even before adolenscence, depending on the circumstances. In adulthood, having lived a bit and been knocked around ourselves by the world we live in, we tend to forgive our parents and teachers for their flaws and learn to appreciate their efforts for the expressions of love that they were, despite whatever else happened. So as for moving on, I feel that I have and this site has helped me do so. -shp Maybe you're going to the Lotus Feet when you die and we're going to the compost heap with the rest of the rotting vegetables, maybe not. -gregg I'm not into the afterlife heaven-hell thing. I think we both want to experience heaven now if it is available in a practical form while we are yet alive..yes? -shp Believe me, brother, this is the least likely place in cyberspace to get converts. Try a random chat room where they are unfamiliar with your Master's Hindu-lite history. You'll have better luck. -gregg I'm not seeking converts, just some real communication and without judgement on you for your feelings about Maharaji. -shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 21:30:20 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

shp: Maybe the 'vast majority of people'have a 'vacancy'because they're totally knackered on their way home from work. Maybe they haven't realised (unlike you) the dynamic force created by the fusion of Capitalism & Spirituality, of which is M is an adept. I don't notice that many contributors here talk much about the 'Knowledge', maybe because we've all got it. What we haven't got though is a consenus on just exactly who is Mr.Prem Pal Singh Rawat. The tone of your message implies that you might know. Please inform.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:26:15 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

What we haven't got though is a consenus on just exactly who is Mr.Prem Pal Singh Rawat. The tone of your message implies that you might know. Please inform. -BL I think he is somebody worth my attention and respect. -shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:11:13 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: shp Subject: solution or symptom? Message:

SHP: Anyway, I like to observe people. I like to look at their faces and into their eyes without getting weird about it or making them uncomfortable. I look for what people seem to be going through and experiencing on a personal level. A vast majority of folks seem to have a vacancy, a light or two out in their eyes, as if something is missing or not in service. The fact that you can do this without having someone punch you in the nose means that you're probably misjudging their goodwill. Survey data on how much people tend to trust others and other measures of 'social capital' have been declining for a long time, but no one is very mystified by what's causing it. The underlying cause is the dissolution of the family. See Fukuyama's 'The Great Disruption.' Maharaji, and others like him, are either a symptom or are actually *contributing* to the general aura of mistrust. What you're looking for is a problem for your solution, and what you 'like to do' is find what you're looking for. The solution, if it comes, will be hard won and will have to somehow avoid the seductive message of charismatic leaders with the moral and ethical characteristics of a crocodile. --Scott

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:52:13 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: judge or observer? Message:

Anyway, I like to observe people. I like to look at their faces and into their eyes without getting weird about it or making them uncomfortable. I look for what people seem to be going through and experiencing on a personal level. A vast majority of folks seem to have a vacancy, a light or two out in their eyes, as if something is missing or not in service... -shp ....(to continue along the same lines) Then I like to reach out in some unthreatening way and break the ice, and feel some human energy interaction. It feels so right and natural to interconnect with other human beings wherever I am, in words, a look or just a knowing glance that we are all in this together and we wish each other the best, and we would reach out to help if someone was about to fall or something. Human consciousness aware of itself in everyone's eyes, and the awareness that we are all a part of each other. -shp The fact that you can do this without having someone punch you in the nose means that you're probably misjudging their goodwill. -ST That is a weird way of reading it. -shp Survey data on how much people tend to trust others and other measures of 'social capital' have been declining for a long time, but no one is very mystified by what's causing it. The underlying cause is the dissolution of the family. See Fukuyama's 'The Great Disruption.' Maharaji, and others like him, are either a symptom or are actually *contributing* to the general aura of mistrust. -ST It may be so about the statistics and family problems and Fukuyama's book. As for Maharaji's involvement, I would question that based on things I have personally heard him say about being supportive in a family and being there for your children, not that I needed to hear it from him to do it, I did hear it from him nonetheless. -shp What you're looking for is a problem for your solution, and what you 'like to do' is find what you're looking for. -ST What you like to do is analyze people thru dirty glasses. I just like to watch and observe, not judge. I do not enjoy finding sadness in people's eyes to fulfill my mind game, as you say. -shp The solution, if it comes, will be hard won and will have to somehow avoid the seductive message of charismatic leaders with the moral and ethical characteristics of a crocodile. -ST Everything worthwhile in this world is hard won. -shp

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:55:16 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: n/a To: shp Subject: judge or observer? Message:

I think M tries to offer us a one size fits all solution, he appeals to our immature wishful thinking.(magical thinking) I like the lyrics to the Don Hensley song. The End of the Innocence, when he sings 'but happily ever after fails, weve' been poisoned by these fairy tales. And lawyer's sort out all details ect. Chorus, This is the end, the end of the innocence.' Maharaj Ji's world is a story book world dear, where the ' Prince of Peace' as he used to be called comes to save humanity and establish world peace. Remember Millenium 73'? Were you even born in 1973? Well in case you were not around the Lion was supposed to lay down with the Lamb and we were all supposed to live on earth as one big happy family with Daddy Divine sitting at the head of the table of course. We all wanted to be rescued, saved and taken care of by this Cosmic Archetypal Father Figure, unfortunately as most of us discovered..... The Prince turned out to be no Prince honey, the prince turned out to be a common fucking frog ok? And it became evident that he was only in it for the flys, the kisses and the lily pad.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:03:59 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: shp Subject: Judgment. Message:

SHP: A vast majority of folks seem to have a vacancy, a light or two out in their eyes, as if something is missing or not in service... My congratulations that you can accomplish this by merely watching and observing casually. I don't think even Clifford Geertz had powers of casual observation that could detect underlying emotions without some fairly overt evidence, and 'a light or two out in their eyes' is sure an impressively 'thick description.' I doubt that you enjoy sadness in quite the same way that you enjoy a good plate of lasagna, but I've seen many premies relish the delicious sadness they 'thought' they saw in another's eyes, when frequently there was more compassion coming from those eyes than they recognized. But then I don't fancy that I have the key to someone else's happiness. Perhaps that's what you mean by 'dirty glasses.' BTW, the notion that Maharaji is supportive of family having once muttered something that sounded vaguely pro-family just settles the issue of your extraordinary powers of analysis and observation. --Scott

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:38:24 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: Yeah, but why not give credit to Rev Moon too? Message:

It IS a lonely, lonely world out there, shppie. No doubt you're right, that you do have the gift of being able to look into complete strangers' faces, people you only see for a moment, en masse, travelling to work and stuff, and can see the emptiness of their lives. And that's even WITHOUT Philip Glass' soundtrack pounding away, isn't it? That's just fucking amazing, that you have that gift. And yes, it's kind of like the Matrix too. So there, you've got not one, but two, super cool movies just kind of 'reflecting' the whole thing or something like that. But what I don't get is why you don't give credit to ALL the fuzzy-wuzzy teddy bears who've come alive to open their arms and bring us lonely pilgrims in out of the cold? You can't tell me, shppie, that you're gonna find such blank stares at a Moonie 'event', can you? So there IS love there, Shp, you just have to know where to look for it. Good luck, fellow traveller! (Hey, when's Matrix 2 coming out?)

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:59:20 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: That's not who we are talking about here, is it? Message:

But what I don't get is why you don't give credit to ALL the fuzzy-wuzzy teddy bears who've come alive to open their arms and bring us lonely pilgrims in out of the cold? -jh God bless the peacemakers, every last one of them. -shp You can't tell me, shppie, that you're gonna find such blank stares at a Moonie 'event', can you? -jh Never been to one. -shp So there IS love there, Shp, you just have to know where to look for it. -jh I do. -shp Good luck, fellow traveller! -jh Luck has nothing to do with it. 'The harder I work, the luckier I get.' -golf pro Lee Trevino 'God help those who help themselves.' 'Grace is the unmerited favor of your Maker'. -shp (Hey, when's Matrix 2 coming out?) -jh Not sure, but I'm more interested in staying consciously free of the one enveloping planet earth right now in this reality we are being projected into, and remaining cognizant of my true nature and identity...and yours as well. -shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:19:55 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: shp Subject: That's not who we are talking about here, is it? Message:

Believe me Sandy, if anybody's in a matrix, you are. It's called the I'm-so-fortunate-to-have-found-Maharaji one, the love-is-everywhere-all-else-is-illusion one. What else? I guess that will do. Peace, Love to you my brother. All is grand when you're head is filled with sweet nothings. But be careful, and watch out for the blue pill. It's been known to make dreamers like yourself mighty sick.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:28:25 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Forget about The Matrix Message:

Have you seen Mission To Mars? It's all about the 'face' on Mars and how it got there. Like, left there -- by our ancestors. Uh, huh, no lie. I'm sure you've heard of this. Believe me, you will LOVE this movie, and probably believe every bit of it. You can rent it at your nearest video store.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:38:39 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: shp Subject: This could be the last time... Message:

Excuse me butting in here. I have a question for you Sandy. What is your true identity and how do you remain cognizant of it? anth the 'this may be the last time in my life I ever ask this question'. (I don't knowowwww. Oh I don't know. It could be the last time, I don't knowow. Oh no.)

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:03:05 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: This could be the last time... Message:

Excuse me butting in here. -anth No problem, anth. -shp I have a question for you Sandy. -anth What is your true identity and how do you remain cognizant of it? To answer you in the muscial vein which you have chosen in this post, jst to point out a very few of the myriad reminders: I am here and you are here and we are here and we are all together... Imagine all the people living life in peace, ohoh, you could say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one... I have to remind you of your own musical heritage? As to how to remain cognizant of it, I have been advised by whom I consider to be reliable sources that if I practice a series of techniques, that I will begin to live and remain in a state of knowing who I really am and who you really are more and more often and frequently, culminating in a life of joyful self-realization. -shp anth the 'this may be the last time in my life I ever ask this question'. (I don't knowowwww. Oh I don't know. It could be the last time, I don't knowow. Oh no.)

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:41:48 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: shp Subject: Does this mean... Message:

...that I am the Egg Man? Or am I the Walrus? And if this is the case Sandy, why does one require a 'Master' such as the one I had the misfortune to follow for so long? Anth standing in the English rain.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:15:32 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: 'Only you know and I know'...remember Dave Mason? Message:

...that I am the Egg Man? Or am I the Walrus? And if this is the case Sandy, why does one require a 'Master' such as the one I had the misfortune to follow for so long? -Anth standing in the English rain. number9number9number9number9number9number9number9number9number9 Dear Anth, Look at the world. How many wise and loving men and women do you see in the general population of, let's say a soccer game on your fair isle? How is life and death measured and valued by the average person? What is the value of human life to the person on the street? What is the state of the world? Human rights? Why is it in that state? And you ask me why a Master....well, I don't see it happening without one, do you? Couldn't hurt.... Please let me know if and when you are coming this way, as in NYC area. I'd like to meet you and have a pint of this or that and talk face to face, if the occasion presents itself. -shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:41:21 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: shp Subject: Ordinary People Message:

Sandy, As I get older, I have less respect for the 'wise and good' and more respect for ordinary folk, like those you talk of. Every great monument, amazing building, bridge and incredible pieces of architecture, roads, airports, runways and houses, were all built by ordinary, unknown folk, for lousy wages with lousy working conditions. And they worked bloody hard for lots of years to make all the stuff we benefit from and admire. And it's usually some rich sod whose family could afford an education, or made a fortune out of slavery or something, who gets the credit. I think the ordinary people in the street manage life and death extremely well Sandy. Particulary the females, many of whom give life to the planet from their own bodies. When I've been involved in situations where death has occured, I've found that very ordinary people behave in the most dignified, sensitive, supportive way. People on the street value nothing more than life. Try and seperate a mother from a baby and see what happens to you. Everybody has people who they love, and who love them, and everybody feels indescribable sadness when a loved one dies. My years of practising knowledge have given me absolutely no insight to this subject Sandy. Going through experiences with different groups of very ordinary people has taught me something about it. You say how many warm and loving people do I see at a soccer game? Well, every weekend in the UK, there are probably getting up towards half a million people watching a live soccer game at the ground. I've been to soccer games all my life Sandy- I still go. Most soccer fans are good natured, friendly people, with a sense of humour (you have to have to support Nottingham Forest these days). If you look at the percentage of violent anti-social people in society, say who get arrested for violence on a Saturday night in an average town, and compare it to the number of arrests at games of soccer. Soccer games are more peaceful. This is partly because the violent element attracted to soccer have been largely contained by the police inside the grounds. One thing that there is an abundance of at soccer grounds is reporters and tv cameras- so you get lots of coverage of any violence that does kick off. But most soccer fans are decent, ok, friendly people Sandy. And where does the 'Master' fit into all this? He doesn't. Anth the Forest Fan

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:20:44 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: AJW Subject: Your logic is platted Anth Message:

still dreaming of gary birtles, cloughie and john robertson are we. What's that one about fifteen minutes of fame? As a gooner I think you need a master tactician like, like stuart pearce, aggghhh cult delusions Did you see Bergkamp tonight, poetic wasn't it, but then who else but would have a zen manager ha

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:28:39 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Ordinary People Message:

Anth, I agree with you about the working class heroes, of which we are two. Sandy the empathetic premie

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:12:47 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: AJW Subject: you know my name ... you know you know my name ... Message:

A long-institutionalised patient in a mental hospital is repeatedly banging his head against a solid brick wall. A psychiatric nurse rushes up to stop him: 'Why do you keep doing that to yourself?' the nurse asks, 'doesn't it hurt?' 'Of course it does' the patient replies, 'but it feels sooooo good when I stop'.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:10:52 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: If you were only here, Shp, I'd give you a hug (nt Message:

gggggg

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:55:00 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: shp Subject: Thoughts during recent travels Message:

Dear Sandy, The isolation and 'fear of strangers and preoccupation with one's own existence' you see in others is only a reflection of your own feelings. You know, the old 'mirror' effect. Your hallucinations about other people, the 'light or lack of light' in their eyes is just that--a hallucination--something you make up. 'Knowledge' hasn't made you different or special. It seems only to have made you arrogant and condescending. And isolated. Did you try smiling at any of these people and saying hello, how are you? Knowledge hasn't 'opened you up.' It has made you superior (in your ownd mind) and isolated from the rest of 'ignorant' humanity. Goober isn't 'working to uplift the consciousness of mankind' ( a truly impossible and actually non-existent task) he's working to fill his pockets with manna. You say as you walked the streets of our great cities you just KNEW you had something others didn't. Cute. Exam this for yourself and then cry. You hallucination of the 'main event of M's life' is that it is not about his family or his relationship with other people, but about some pie-in-the-sky 'spirituality' he supposedly embodies. This is your own personal fantasy and I'll bet goober is rolling in the aisle when he reads things like this. I too could go on and on about what is fucked up about your comments here shp, but it wouldn't do you any good. Your comments to Jim show just how fucked up your thinking really is. But this statement in particular shows how stuck you are, how immature, how unformed and stupid, yes, stupid, you really are: Yes, he plays too, which is also a teaching for people, to learn how to play and enjoy this world too, but without becoming attached to it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:44:52 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: shp Subject: The Divine Muddle Message:

Hi Sandy, I think you've got a couple of concepts muddled up here. Correct me if I'm wrong. First there is the Creator- pure, perfect, all knowing, infinite etc. Then there's this chubby Indian bloke, who teaches these four yoga techniques and tells everyone that what they experience is their innermost being, life, whatever. The chubby Indian bloke, has no more private line with the Creator than you or I Sandy. He isn't the 'Perfect Master'. His yoga techniques are not an experience of the life force. He hasn't come with more power than ever before. He's just another cult leader Sandy, and we got suckered for all sorts of reasons. Here's a little test you can do at home- try doubting the Indian bloke but keeping your faith in the Creator- and see what happens. Anth the tried it at home and liked it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:32:18 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: I could not have called it anything else. Message:

shp, Why do you post here? This is an ex-premie site, made by them for them. All the talk( I think ) is anti-maharaji. I really do not get it. I mean look at this post from elk, Lovely website Lovely website Love,Sandy. What is so lovely about that place, can you tell me. Most posts go unanswered. There is no feed back between premies. Ivette bullocks seems to live in a dream, posting stupid poetry about 5 to 10 times a month on that site. I have gone through most of the posts trying to see if someone had started a dialogue but could not find any. So I come back again to my original question? what are you doing here? Could it be that this is the only place that a premie can express his/her true sentement and recieves a reply. Execuse the expression but your post sucks. Why do you tell us about how gm has saved you and opened your eyes and gagaga? You now what we are going to say. But you still insist on doing it. I mean look at shroomji. He came and tried to bash everyone's head with his garbadge about gm. He picked on everyone, and I can say that he was tolerated even after he became a bad joke. Where is he now. He sure is reading this forum, but he has not got the balls to show his face. And here you are, making a jocker out of yourself, why? I do not know what were the circumstances that lead to the creation to this site and this forum, but whatever they are they must have and still are costing money. Me and you are not paying any of it to have the pleasure of comming here and have a go at each other. Has your guru opened your eyes to this fact? How would you fell if you were thrown out? Like shit, right? But you know something, you come here lecturing us about how good is fatso is and what a wounderful person you are, but you never once stopped and thought, gosh, if there was no ex-premie where will I go to vent my whatever I have picked up during the day. I mean you can not even share satsang anymore. What you do is create a new fantasy for yourself, live it under the name of shp/Sandy and enter it everytime you feel like it. You want to talk about gratitude, then say thanks to FA for letting you here, and to everyone for tolerating your little mind. Be thankfull for us and this place because it gives you a real chance to grow. It give EV a sense of direction. How many times have you posted here and got a reply, yet I do not know of any ex-premie that have contacted EV and recieved a fart. If you do not like what I am saying fine. Go and get your own site and forum and invite your freinds and have your own party and when I come to your place give me heaps, but I think that as long as you and your freinds feel homeless and find solitude in this place I suggest that you stop jumpping on the beds. capice.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:34:41 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Salam Subject: reply to Salam Message:

Dear Salam, 1) shp/Sandy are my real initials and my real name. I have posted my fullname here and it is on record. What is there to hide? I don't come here and fantacize and pretend to be somebody else. 2) This site was made by ex-premies and I can appreciate that, but I am cordially invited to participate on your intro page, so I do from time to time and share my feelings. 3) I do not judge you or anyone, premie or ex for being 'right' or 'wrong' in the traditional sense of the word. What is 'right' for one person can be 'wrong' for another. 4) I bear no ill will toward anyone here for what ever they believe.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:20:43 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: shp Subject: Try harder Message:

I do not think this is your best. Please try harder. Ofcourse this is a public forum. But why is it that premies come here? I really like to know that. You being one probably can answer that. Do you find it amusing? Or is it like having a hot sauna and a good massage after a hard day's work. You see shp/Sandy I find it hard to speak to premies. I tried, even recently with someone I thought I new, but the conversation ended up in me being dead and the premie at last reached a part of me that was alive, so you see, each time I smell a premie it is a reflex with me to move away because it is a waste of time talking to them. You are the same. You give credit to gm and his knowledge without even a secound thought of maybe and perhaps. Reading your posts make me sick, I feel like spewing most of the time. Do not get offended. I do not know you. Maybe in a real life you are a nice person. But everytime I read a post by a premie I unconsiously click the right bottom on my mose to delete the post. Call it what you want, but I have made up my mind. It is a sad state of affair but I am biased to say the premies are stupid idiots that can not have a normal conversation without maharaji being part of it. It is like Italian, if it is not pasta for lunch then it is pasta for dinner. You can not live without you pasta guru. I wish you good luck and I feel sorry for you. I just wish that one day you wake up and decide to question what your life is all about, because I know I did and I found out that I can be some one else, not the dumb ass devotee that I was. I am a human being first and formost, I was, I am and will always be. Take care,and rely on me to kick the crap out of you in good faith. Hugs, kisses and a lot of kicks from me and all the exes. Enjoy yourself while you can. Yours very trully Salam.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:04:41 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Salam Subject: i'm givin' 'er evrthin' she's got cap'n!! Message:

I do not think this is your best. Please try harder. -Salam LOL -shp Of course this is a public forum. But why is it that premies come here? I really like to know that. You being one probably can answer that. -salam I can only speak for myself. I enjoy speaking with people who I don't necessarily agree with about things we have in common. That is one way I learn things, interacting with others. -shp Do you find it amusing? Or is it like having a hot sauna and a good massage after a hard day's work. -salam I do not find it amusing in the abusive sense of the word, as in do I mock your pain and suffering? Hell no. There are some funny moments, though, when we all have to laugh at some silliness that goes down. But no, I do not revel in anyone's hurt. -shp You see shp/Sandy I find it hard to speak to premies. -salam Right here we have something in common, salam. And I know exactly what you mean. But that does not apply to all premies, just enought of them to put a yuk on the group if certain ones run wild, just like in any other group, there are always those who can give it a bad reputation. -shp I tried, even recently with someone I thought I new, but the conversation ended up in me being dead and the premie at last reached a part of me that was alive, so you see, each time I smell a premie it is a reflex with me to move away because it is a waste of time talking to them. -salam For me, it isn't if the person is a premie or an ex-premie. That is not how I drw the line. It's more aobut who that person is and how we get along, despite our differences. -shp You are the same. You give credit to gm and his knowledge without even a second thought of maybe and perhaps. -salam How do you know what I have gone through in order to give credit to Maharaji? You assume so much without knowing me. How is it that you do that and call it just? -shp Reading your posts make me sick, I feel like spewing most of the time. Do not get offended. I do not know you. Maybe in a real life you are a nice person. -salam No offense taken. I am a nice person in real life, you are right. And probably so are you. -shp But everytime I read a post by a premie I unconsiously click the right bottom on my mouse to delete the post. Call it what you want, but I have made up my mind. -salam Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and not clicking on the mouse. -shp It is a sad state of affairs but I am biased to say the premies are stupid idiots that can not have a normal conversation without maharaji being part of it. -salam I know what you mean about those who constantly pepper all conversation with Maharaji. I don't think that is cool or what he wants even. I don't do that myself. It can be a real turn-off if tact and being sensitive to others is not practiced. But exes have no trouble talking about Maharaji if it's trash talk, but have a hard time hearing the other side of the story if it contradicts their experience and the agenda of this site. I wonder how many exes have ever or are now thinking twice about Maharaji, but now have double peer group pressure thoughts, worrying about how the exers will fry them as well. I try to steer clear of judging any person strictly by their handles. A person is capable of spontaneous life-altering change and should never be pidgeon-holed, because you might miss something very neat and wonderful. -shp It is like Italian, if it is not pasta for lunch then it is pasta for dinner. You can not live without you pasta guru. -salam Pasta -and I mean GOOD pasta - is good for you, food for health and life. What is wrong with that? If you know something is good for you, why deny yourself? -shp I wish you good luck and I feel sorry for you. I just wish that one day you wake up and decide to question what your life is all about, because I know I did and I found out that I can be some one else, not the dumb ass devotee that I was. I am a human being first and formost, I was, I am and will always be. -salam Please don't feel sorry for me. Sympathy and cruelty go hand in hand, two ends of the same loop. (Not to be mistaken with empathy, totally different.) I wake up every day and question what my life is all about. Then I realize what my purpose is, to get to the bathroom as soon as possible! Just kidding, but oh how true in that moment, right? Being a dumbass and being a devotee are two different identities. There are smart devotees and dumb devotees, and there are smart ex-devotees and dumb ex-deovtees, too, understand? -shp Take care,and rely on me to kick the crap out of you in good faith. -salam Be true to yourself and take your best shot, as I will do. Then our communication will be real and genuine, no matter what we say, and God will help us through our lives and situations, because we are giving it our best shots. -shp Hugs, kisses and a lot of kicks from me and all the exes. Enjoy yourself while you can. -salam Same to you. -shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:18:34 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: shp Subject: i'm givin' 'er evrthin' she's got cap'n!! Message:

You are gforgetting the chillies. Go away. It is 5 in the morning and I am falling to sleep on the kb. I like to continue this going no where conversation. Maybe tomorrow. Please do not come in my dreams, that will piss me off, I sleep only few hours a day. Salam zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:15:33 (GMT) From: Captain Pugwash Email: None To: shp Subject: Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke!!!!!!! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 18:19:40 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Captain Pugwash Subject: Try some club soda and lime, Captain Backwash! Message:

For a Captain, you ought to be able to hold your fluids until you're in private.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:19:42 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: shp Subject: Good morning shp. Message:

My brain is still rattled a bit after last night's party. Your post above is full of contradictions and as always bullshit. You say some premies are the bad potatos. I say all premies are bad potatos you included. My theory is simple : a premie is a bad potato. So what you gonna do about it? Say that you are a pwkiee? I still smell you. It is not what you say, it is the way you act that detemins your potato status. You look at people in the word and think that you have something special. Can you tell me what that is? Ah shit I forgot, iT IS KNOLEDge, that is what it is. The problem with knowledge is that it gives you a superority complex, Frongie exibited that behavior when talking to Stonner and others that did not have knowledge and called then not-anything. It is nice to walk around and feel you are something special, a feeling of belonging, part of the pack, a very ancient behavior that can be traced right back to when we were all stupid monkeys. So there , you are nothing more than a monkey riding a train thinking how wounderful you are and what a bunch of misrable old sods everone is. Please OPEN UP YOUR mind a bit. I mean we all know how damaged you are. Really it is very traumatic to be in a cult. And also do not forget that you are brainwashed. I remember reading a while back that never during the history of man kind that a brainwashed person has admitted to being brainwashed. You see shp, gm tells about how bad everything out there is and how important it is to him that you be under his shelter, you have been listining to this story for so long that it has gone beyond you having to belive it anymore. No mam. It is a habit to you, like brushing your teeth. You talk about the MATRIX, but this is way bit to far for it. In the film there is the good side , the bad side and the sleepers. In here there is an extra type, the you type. This is the type that swings from his camp to the other hanging be a rope. Belive me there is nothing wroung with letting go, we will catch you and it will be the last fall that you ever do. So, this is so beautiful, because here we are with such an example of a lost person that was a monkey and still is. I mean it is really really mind bugling, because when ALL THIS is happining, here comes someone to give you a hand and says this is free, you do not need to pay me, I do not want your gratitude or thanks, I hate your guts and your mother's guts, but if you want to get out just reach out, ohhhhh it is beautiful. By the way I forgot to ask you to kneel to FA and kiss his loutos keyboard. Salam going for a coffe.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 08:33:08 (GMT) From: Cultbuster UK Email: None To: Everyone Subject: This very special day Message:

An interesting letter about the program in Paris tonight. I think this is asking for money on top of the “suggested £30 donation/registration”. Premies without smartcards are asked to bring ID. FINANCIAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONGRESS ON SEPTEMBER 25, 2000 – PARIS Hello to everyone, In spite of your temendous effort to support financially the event in Paris, (we take this opportunity to thank you very much for it) we still have important expenses which are not covered by the donations we have received so far. As of today, the budget of the association is largely in deficit. We are giving you this information, so that if you wish, you could send another contribution. This will help us make this event a complete success. You can send your participation by credit card to this fax number : 33 1 42 52 47 (see behind the authorization to fill out) If you’d rather give your contribution on the day of the event, you can already give us, below, an idea of the amount. This would be very helpful to us. You can send it to the fax : 33 1 42 52 47 83 or by mail to : Eland Vital BP 96 75862 Paris cedex 18 France Even though it seems important to us to share this information with you, as ever, everyone is warmly welcome to attend the event regardless of ability to offer financial support. Hoping that we will all enjoy this very special day, we thank you again for your continous support. Luc Monier and Philippe Dubois AMOUNT OF MY PARTICIPATION OF SEPTEMBER 25:_______________FF

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 14:04:36 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Cultbuster UK Subject: Question to EV! Message:

3500 expected premies attending the event X £30 = over 100,000 £. Estimated cost: renting of the hall + AV equipment etc : 25-30,000 £ What's the rest being used for ? Royalties to Visions ? Mr Rawat's private expenses ? I bet EV's going to show its books to counter the nasty exes .....

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 21:58:52 (GMT) From: Eric Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Question of Money Message:

The reason why EV has to call for financial support for these events is because a lot of people do not pay. Just as, I would imagine from the general level of the conversations here, a lot of you probably didn't pay when you went to events. Halls cost money, large halls cost a lot of money. If 3,500 people attend the event in Paris, not all of them will pay the requested amount. So your mathematics won't work. Why do you guys have such a problem with money? Is it because you don't have any yourselves? I personally think money is great and if I had a lot of it I would have a private jet, I would have home tutored my kids and I would eat and drink the best and I would have a big house and a few cars. Why don't you focus your outrage on OPEC on the IMF onn ICI on SMITH KLINE BEECHAM. These guys are doing far more to rip off people than Rawat. They are not only profiting off cancer, AIDS, heart disease, etc. etc. but they're also polluting the planet, draining our resources and causing wars, drought and famine. And it is all in the name of money

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:29:17 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Eric Subject: Why can't EV simply show its books? Message:

That would be fair and end all rumors. I've been involved in events' preparation and organization, and I know why. Have you? I remember those huge Visions' bills. They can never be paid. This is the way Visions drains all possible money from the countries where events happen! Then god know where all this money goes. When is Visions going to open its books? The problem is that everybody would know the names of these other companies EV is paying such huge bills .... Of course EV's budget and Rawat's gains are nothing compared to the companies you're quoting. But this is the price premies pay to have their own brains damaged.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 08:58:42 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: None To: Eric Subject: The Question of Money Message:

If you didn't give all your money to M you might have some money moron!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:47:41 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Eric Subject: The Question of Money Message:

You are so right! AND WHAT THE HELL IS THE LIVING MASTER, THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE DOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING? zilch! Oh it is all just maya. Yea I got a problem with money. Why don't you be a blissful brother and send me YOURS! I'll give you my snail mail address and I'll expect you to send me a check once a month...a nice fat one too...it means nothing to you, RIGHT? JERK!

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:15:30 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Eric Subject: Eric are you for real? Message:

First of all a hall for 3,500 or so people is not a large hall. You want to talk halls? A hall to accomodate 3,500 is not considered a large hall. Now a hall for 15,000 people would be considered a medium size hall. No, the hall in Paris was not pricey. No one here has money? Not true at all. In fact most of here are relatively very comfortable. Not like Rawat mind you, ie filthy rich, but not wanting for anything. Have you ever tried to enter an event without paying the suggested donation? I did once in 1978. Was not pretty. First of all I had to beg. Then I got to exit the line and got sequestered in a room by myself. Next came the big bad realized soul who wanted to know how I was going to pay for my admittance in either service or an IOU. At the time the registration was $70 which was a tidy sum in those days. Look back through these archives and see some of the first hand experience on how much EV/DLM used to gross from the events/festivals/programs. But you touched on a morale isuue Eric. If you had the kind of money Rawat had, wouldn't you do some good works that would benefit the less fortunate? The organizations you named do provide a service to justify their wealth. And some of them do some worthy charitable acts. What exactly has Rawat done? EVER? Your statement is so ignorant I wonder what your intention is and exactly why you are here in this forum if you find us so unpalpatable.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 05:38:13 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Tonette Subject: Excellent, Tonette! (nt) Message:

asdf

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:44:21 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Eric Subject: The Question of Money Message:

Why do you want to fight OPEC. The countries that make up OPEC has all the right to decide what to do with their natural resources. If you do not like it, get a bike. The IMF is not the most popular of an organisation. If you have the dosh, you rule the IMF, everyone knows that. I knew that when I was a tiny little baby shitting in my nappy. AIDS, Cancer and HEP a,b and c, these are money spinners, controlled by the chemical industry, How do suggest to go over this one? As far a fatso is concerned, it is not the problem of him having bundles on greenbacks sticking out of every orifice on him, it is much bigger. There has to be hundreds of thousands of people out there in the world that got ripped of by him (do not give your opinion) in one way or another. It is those poeple that this place is trying to reach. I suggest you do some work before uttering your stupid arguments. Go and read the archives, the journeys, EV papers and you will find out that the message is that we are dealing with a person that is a fraud. Never mind your idiotic little opinion. He could be a false prophet knowingly or not, but he is. This thread is about money, another on this page is about his person, yet there is one on child molistation. So the subject is not always about money. But you being the blind brainwashed never had to think for the last donkeys of years prefering to leave everything to someone else and thus being a vegitable worm with no backbone, i.e., a slim ball, you the defender of truth and rightnousness have never opened your eyes and faced the sun because you have live for so long under someone's else umbrella that it has effected your brain chemicals and so I do suggest that you go and get some real help from a con merchant doctor that is scamming to take your money, through the national health service and then come back here. You will find extra support to help deprogram yourself and exit the cult.... Shesh, I run out of breath.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 00:35:57 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Eric Subject: The Question of Money Message:

Money is always interesting innit. I don't have a big beef about it myself because I've never given him very much,although I would have done if I'd had it. Lot's of people did have it & gave it, or worked their balls off & gave it,or fiddled it & gave it,or stole it & gave it. These are the people who are justifiably angry now that Mr.Rawat is a mere teacher of meditation & no longer the incarnation of God. Me, I'm just disappointed with myself for having believed in a Pied Piper for so long. BTW do you give much to further teach's work? For the record, despite hovering around the poverty line all my life,due to trying to put SS&M in pole position when I could've been a contender,I've always paid the registration fee at events & have even (sob) put money in the collection boxes. I don't understand how your stated attitude to the root of all evil,(it's great etc.) fits into your loud shout about a well known pharmaceutical company.After all it's only by working for such companies that most people get hold of the green stuff. Are you one of these New Age bozos who thinks that throwing a spanner in the works of an impossibly complicated system that no one really understands, is going to improve the lot of the impoverished billions? Why don't you try some empowering direct action round at Mr. Rawat's place. After one of his guards has stunned you with a divine kick you can then go & nurse your headache by chewing on a willow tree. No need to buy Smith Kline etc products at all. Arsehole

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 01:25:09 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Bin Liner Subject: The Question of Money Message:

For the record, despite hovering around the poverty line all my life,due to trying to put SS&M in pole position when I could've been a contender,I've always paid the registration fee at events & have even (sob) put money in the collection boxes. Good point, Bin Liner! I think that these two points (1) wasting our life's energy on trying to incorporate Maharaji's crappy philosophy into our lives and (2) most premies did manage to pay the registration fee regardless of how poor we were. Also, I think that Premies have a very naive point of view in regards to the world and attempt to blame everything on the evils of corporations. Blaming these giant and invincable dark forces is perfect for premies to continue to blindly believe that Maharaji is the only answer for the ills of the world.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:01:25 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Eric Subject: Point of information Message:

'Why do you guys have such a problem with money? Is it because you don't have any yourselves? ' Most od the exs here nor only supported 'events', but gave ALL theor income.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 22:41:10 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Eric Subject: Bullshit Message:

I don't know how many people 'don't pay' for events anymore, but I would imagine the number is very small. There is a lot of social pressure to pay the 'suggested donation' if not more. Sure, some people won't pay, but a lot of people will be pressured to pay more. As for the price of halls, well, sometimes Elan Vital/DLM got them free, like we often got the Miami Beach Convention Center for free, and yet an admission fee of $70 or more was still charged. No, I think it's safe to assume that if you have 3,500 people and a suggested admission fee is $50, you will collect at least $150,000, for a one-day event, and if the hall cost more than a few thousand dollars, you are really being ripped off. There are big profits in those events. Of course, most 'events' don't have to support a private jet for the 'speaker,' which is likely 'leased' by Elan Vital (through the charges to the event) from a corporation owned by Maharaji or people close to him, so that he will indirectly profit from the 'lease,' over and above the actual cost of a private jetliner, which, especially now that fuel costs are very high, is no cheap matter. No wonder they need more money to support M and the way he demands to travel.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: £70,000 for Rawat for one trip to Paris - easy! Message:

The premie-run shell-corporation that 'owns' the G4 jet that M has exclusive use of would charge more than that, wouldn't they? BTW, does Raja-Ji still play the casinos?

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 17:31:21 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: cq Subject: no no no, much more !!!! Message:

that doesn't include the 50-100,000 £ donations he gets directly for such a program .....

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:38:11 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Question to EV! Message:

Isn't fatso going around the world touring? Maybe they are expecting low turn out in other countries and trying to compensate for that. But then France has a lot of fashon shops.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:42:15 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Don't forget that... Message:

...58% of the French national budget is spent on poodles- dog food, perms, taking them to existensialist theatre productions in Montmarte etc. Anth qui aime la France. (Allez les Bleus)

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 15:47:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Salam Subject: Rawat's private expenses are covered Message:

by a small group of 'selected' premies, no doubt EV won't pay any of this. Too dangerous if the have an IRS audit. But the question remains: where goes the money ? How much is EV US and Visions charging for so-called fees ? And who gets the money at the end of the day? I can't see any way of spending all this money for the local expenses of the program in Paris ! Far from it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:00:57 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Rawat's private expenses are covered Message:

Well the post above says we still have important expenses which are not covered by the donations we have received so far. As of today, the budget of the association is largely in deficit. It could be that the budget has been in the red for a while and they are trying to cash on the opportunity to adjust it. Is 3500 a confirmed figure, or a guess?

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:27:09 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Salam Subject: EV said Message:

they're expecting 3,700 premies. We'll know in a few hours how many showed up ....

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 06:24:04 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: So have tou got the numbers yet?..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 13:04:46 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Cultbuster UK Subject: First time ever a deficit for EV France ! Message:

Wonder what's going to happen ! Please keep us informed !!

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 00:50:51 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Hamzen Subject: alive and well(OT) Message:

Hi Ham, Just to let you know I am doing well on my middle-east mission. Going to a music and crafts festival at lake Galilee in a couple of days. Been to a couple of excellent trance raves on the beaches here. Soon...jed

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:38:45 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Yo bro Message:

Excellent news, love the vibe, wicked one over here too, kicking off, had a few excellent days out in the countryside near Sheffield again, a good time was had by yours concerned, exploring nearby where we visited recently, mosque heads everywhere. When you back?

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:32:09 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Jethro Subject: alive and well(OT) Message:

Whats a trance rave like Jethro.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 23:09:55 (GMT) From: Jerthro Email: None To: bill Subject: alive and well(OT) Message:

Please see my (partenered) forthcoming book 'Zen and the art of raving'. Meantime I suggest you try one for yourself.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 05:48:56 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: bill Subject: Please Message:

Forgive me for butting in Bill, but something you said awhile ago just won't stop rattling around in this empty head of mine. You said that you could spot a nurse (I think you meant anyone from one of the caring professions) across a crowded room at a party. Some party trick that. How do you do it. Do they have an extra appendage, maybe they smell a bit different, or is their third eye more prominent? Please, how do you do it. I've been standing in front of the mirror for weeks now, and I'm stuffed if I can see how I look any different from anyone else, except maybe I'm taller and better looking. Mr Bubblehead.

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 15:26:13 (GMT) From: TeddyTheTurtle Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Saph's return from India..the dance cliub Message:

When Mataji gave the safron robes to Saph and told him to go back to England...there were no premies then... Saph used to frequent an acid head dance club in london....and thats where he met Glen Whitteker after returning from India and I believe Peter Potter and Milky...they used to dance all night on acid...so thas how the first London premies got together...dancing on acid....I used to remember what that club was called but I forgot now...

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 18:52:13 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: TeddyTheTurtle Subject: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? Message:

I forget the name too, but I guess that's one of the legacies of acid for you (though I was too young at the time - my own acid days were in the late 70s in Goa and Poona). Incidentally, talking of Mata Ji. Her role in all this is rarely mentioned, but I bet her influence carried some clout. Especially on young Prem Pal too (before the split, that is). I watched the 'LOTU' documentary for the second time yesterday, and this time actually took the effort to write down some of the more interesting quotes. For instance, a reporter is at the Long Island residence just before the '73 Millennium bash (remember that? - billed as 'The Most Holy and Significant Event In Human History' - hah!), and in the room with him is Mata Ji, a translator, and a dozen or two selected premies. The reporter asks: 'The Holy Family seem to have more than their share of material things. I see Mata Ji has a Mercedes. Would not a Chevrolet take her back and forth just as well?' To which Mata Ji replies, through the Indian translator: 'Mata Ji says that if you will know that Knowledge, then you too will bring things for Mata Ji.' (laughter from assembled premies) 'And then when you will know this Knowledge, then the best thing that you will find in New York market you will bring for Mata Ji. That is the magic. That is the magic.' She goes on to say: 'But you should be happy with Us, because We are in living form. To save Mankind, we are giving this Knowledge'. . . . And to think that, as premies, we would have thought the REPORTER a bread-head for asking that question!

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:16:22 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: cq Subject: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? Message:

Thanks for the mataji quote, I'd forgotten just how much I,d disliked her in those days of distant memory, now slowly bubbling to the surface under the influence of internet maya, but each bubble still charged with its load of putrefying gas. Come to think of it, I didn't care for the others much either, but they all vanished eventually leaving only GOD & his missus so that was alright...wasn't it? Sorry I can't produce anything more profound,but my agya to myself allows me to drink whiskey at the weekend.

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:58:42 (GMT) From: Eric Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? Message:

You know, I've been cruising this website for a while now and checking in to your conversations and the only conclusion I can come to is that you guys are so lost in the PAST. Why don't you move on. All you ever go on about in all the threads is all this old stuff that is mindlessly being gnawed over by you all, as if you have nothing better to do with your lives. Move on, so Knowledge didn't sit right for you, move on. Stop wasting your time on something you didn't enjoy. I lived in the ashram in 1973 and I didn't like it and I moved out. I still practiced the techniques and enjoyed the experience. How it felt for me, within me. I didn't look at other people and just follow blindly. I have lived a full and exciting life. I haven't given all my money away and I know Maharaji cannot possibly live off the premies. They don't contribute enough to keep the organization afloat let alone him. So stop your bitching and moaning. You only do it because you are so dissatisfied with your own lot. Stop blaming something you involved yourselves in over 25 years ago; it seems, for the majority of you. Get on with your lives. Take responsibility for the decisions you made.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 28, 2000 at 03:49:34 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Eric Subject: How can we help it, it's the rotting vegetables, Message:

you see we've forgotten that truth can only come from bliss do you think I need an auto knowledge dvd review?

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Date: Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 23:59:28 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Eric Subject: Old Stuff? Message:

Old stuff Eric. You mean like all that Indian Perfect Master stuff? Take a look at your masters website- Perfect Master bollocks is state of the Art 21st Century dogma. Anth the existensialist historian.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 03:36:21 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Eric Subject: Wouldn't ya know it, it's Mr. Move On, again! Message:

Fuck yourself, Eric! And fuck yourself next time with whatever name you give yourself!

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 17:14:51 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Eric Subject: This place serves a very useful purpose, Eric ... Message:

... especially in the light of the Maha's repeated attempts at re-writing and denying so much of his past. Or are you happy to let him get away with that? I wonder how many people are STILL being drawn into EV's web without the slightest knowledge of WHO or WHAT Mr Rawat once claimed to be? If this site continues to warn would-be converts AWAY from the Maha, then it's a small service to the community that I, for one, have no hesitation in feeling proud to be associated with. Incidentally, it's not ALL just 'bitching and moaning'. There are exes who, often for the first time in their lives, find the freedom to express the depth of their feeling (mostly disgust and anger) for the scam they let themselves be sucked into. That freedom to express might appear to be 'negativity' to you, but it is actually a very necessary and healthy freedom. I don't deny it can be indulged in to excess in certain cases, but who's to say what's excessive here and for whom? A passer-by like you? We are all dealing with the legacies of premiehood in our own different ways. For you to suggest that we're ALL just stuck and should move on - suggests to me that you haven't fully dealt with the fact that the con-artist (the Maha) is STILL conning people. Some of us would like to put a stop to that. Others, like yourself, apparently, seem content to let him get away with it. One day I'm sure we WILL move on - but only when the Maha has quit his scam!

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:15:03 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Eric Subject: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? Message:

Dear Eric, I too have been cruising this website & considered myself a premie until about a month ago.That's after 28 years so don't give me any 'past' bullshit. 'Knowledge' does 'sit right' with me,whatever it may be & I am certainly not dissatisfied with my lot.I have chosen it for good or ill & will 'move on' with it as we all must whether we want to or not.(lot that is) I was not too bothered about the filthy lucre revelations to be found here because all premies know that 'M' needs to be supported in his work & wherever the money comes from who cares really. What turned me from a premie into an ex-premie Eric was reading the many patently truthful & sincere stories here of people who have had personal contact with him down the years. I suspect that you've never met him yourself,as I haven't nor have the large majority of premies. However, so much of the information here rang bells with things I'd heard & then forgotten about during my involvement with all this that I couldn't deny its truth. E.G., He has been a serious drinker since adolescence. Unfaithful to his wife. An occasional indulger in illegal drugs. Very unkind to individuals who have sought his guidance. A martinet when dealing with his appointed officials. An avoider of serious allegations made against a former 'priest' aka mahatma in his organisation formerly known as Divine Light Mission. Extremely vulgar in his 'life style'. A denier that he was Satguru, greater than God (I believed this,didn't you) etc. Anyway, having been guilty myself of some of the above, who am I to talk. I'm not claiming to be anything special though. I looked at this site out of curiosity,because I've always wanted to know about HIM as a man & have never been able to find out much. I suspect you came here for the same reason. I also suspect that you are the same type of premie as me. i.e ; one who kept the total commitment aspect at arms length,& who now feels free to practice without (or maybe always has done, if so, good for you )any guilty feelings about being in the 'woodwork'. I can't believe that he is the perfect master, after being privy to the information here.You might disagree, but I would advise you not to delve too deeply if that is the case. Yours, Bin Liner p.s just re-read the above & am wondering why such an apparently rational geezer like myself got Pied Pipered. From now on I'll follow the good advice of an old mate who is ex USMC. Never mind arti, or the halls of montezuma, the real hymn is this. HYMN....HYMN.....FUCK HIM

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 01:53:13 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Eric Subject: And also, so what? Who cares if he Message:

has a 20million jet, it is irrelevant, right. We really have to stop at one stage and refocus at what we are doing. I think it is because of the mind. Most of those guys here do not meditate or anything, so their mind is running a mock. If only they consider for a second. I mean it is not like the whole world need to come to a stop if some unknown mahatma rapes a girl or some other is found out to be a child molester. I really think that those people that keep carrying on about it should start meditating more. Plus I also do not believe it is significant whether someone travels on a bike or a Merc. it is all the same, they will all get to their destination, I mean I myself have a few bikes, which is much more than the kid next door. Sometimes he come and polish them for me, he even give me presents because I let. I do not see myself as a material kind a person. I mean look at it. Here I am with few bikes, and GM has few expensive cars. So what? Even when it come to houses and stuff like that. It so beautiful because I have a tiny little bungalow, you know, two bedroom and stuff like that. I can if I want to go and live in other people houses (which I did for two years, because I did not meditate long enough, and so I almost died and some people that do not meditate had to look after me. But then this is not important). That does not mean that I awe a 15million-dollar mansion. I mean when GM bought it, it was nothing but decapitated. You know what I mean, paint pealing of, bad plumbing, and weeds everywhere. So GM meditated, then found some people and told them about oh this so beautiful decapitated house. So those people thought oh this is more so beautiful and started meditation and they started polishing his house for him. what is wrong with that? I just do not understand why those people that do not meditate have such a hang up. I mean I have not sat under a blanket for so long but I do not have any hang up or money. Because I feel money is a material thing and we really should not talk about it in places like this. Because you know it is like this. This man goes to work, and he works and works and works, I mean he works so hard he busts his ass off. Then he goes home and finds his wife sleeping with two large fat women, so he freaks out. But then he decides to meditate and he finds out that all this happened because he works and works and works. So here is this man with a bundle of money that he worked for thinking why his wife is sleeping with these two fat women. So anyway this man decides that he should have paid more attention to big fat women. So he takes his car and goes to the fat women club and blows all his money. But then he realizes that he did not meditate long enough, so he find a mate of his that is a professional meditator and it is all so beautiful because his mate is a full time house polisher of decapitated house. So his mate tells him money is not good and he should give it away. So you see when perfect master comes to this would he makes you meditate, stops you from seeing big fat women and helps you to spend your money. I do not see anything wrong with that. And because perfect master is so beautiful he let you kiss his shoes and stuff like that, because he is a nice guy. Never ever he said that he is so and so, if you know what I mean. So there to all of you those do not meditate and spend your time with fat women. (man what a load of crapp, I think I need to meditate)

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 23:43:51 (GMT) From: Gordon Showcase Email: None To: Eric Subject: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? Message:

I couln't have said it better myself, Eric. These loosers should get a life and stop their whinning and moanning. I lived in the ashram and I loved it. I left the ashram when it closed and I remained in my master's agya and don't know what these old people here are on about. You are right to tell them to stop there biching and moning because they are so negative and don't appreciate it when something has been handed to them on a plate, completely free of charge.

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:22:09 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Gordon Showcase Subject: Since you just LOVE the word Message:

Since you just love the word 'loosers', at least learn how to spell it Gordy. It's 'losers'. Jeez. How many times do we have to tell you? Then again, you may have a neurological problem,which would be perfectly understandable considering the circumstances.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 00:44:56 (GMT) From: newboy Email: zilcho To: Gordon an' Erics Showcase Subject: Give feedback to a recent ex-premmi.... Message:

listen up eric/gorden and premmis, i've just found this site after being a 'premmy' for 'bout 15 years in the u.k. Tell ya sumfink u guys, i've smashed the jar, sick of walking round with a knowledge guilt trip. Yes the knowledge is free, but how 'free' are u guyz? I did service for many years , setting up p.a systems, videos un such. Wat a fool No more,Seemed o.k at the time, but i've woken up to the clicky elitism of the top premmys and it all makes me feel a bit sick nowadays. You say people are bitchin and moaning.You really dont give god much credit for giving us brains do u? are u only humble with other prems? if so, why? Aintcha just a bit curious to see wot lifes like - without it- 'nowadays'? - just 1 week - no practicing - no service - no donations no worryin' wot otherprems say? Try it.... I've got a premmy lodgin with me- not good, comes in after every 'programme' (programmed?)with an extreme 'holier than you' attitude- looking down fom a higher plane ? (he's got to go!) Why bother replying? get blissed out! stay away fom ex premmys- scrub that, keep us amused!

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:16:11 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Eric Subject: Ok, who's the shill? Message:

Which one of youse lugheads is this dope 'Eric?' Come on, 'fess up. Joe? Nigel? Rick? 'Specially like this: I haven't given all my money away and I know Maharaji cannot possibly live off the premies. They don't contribute enough to keep the organization afloat let alone him. So, 'Eric' if this is true, just how does Rawat & Co stay in business? What is the source of the 'float?' Grace? Extortion? Bank Robbing? Who supports Rawat in his princely lifestyle and who provides the gas money for the jet? So many questions and you're only a pinhead. What to do, what to do?

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 03:20:09 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: feedback ,please,on..'The Immaculate Deception' Message:

I had a thought for a special little section at EPO, and wanted to get some feedback on it... I would call it 'The Immaculate Deception',based on m's love for the word 'immaculate' and his obvious love of deception. It would contain m's quotes from the old days, and present day, on various topics,like 'am I god?','who is guru maharaji?','what is the master','how to practice k' etc.. It would show the obvious 'revisionist history' that is going on now, led by him and those around him. I would present 2 pictures of him,one from the 70's, one from the present day.Under each topic, you could click on the 70's version, or the 90's version, and see for yourself what he says. It would not be streaming video, as that would be hard if not impossible to get, but rather an audio feed, with someone reading m's direct quote on that topic, both from the 70's, and present day.It could also link to the rest of the 'satsang' it was taken from. If you think about this for a minute,it could be a very simple,quick and powerful way for someone to understand very quickly the revisionist history and hypocrisy that we all talk aabout, and that m is trying to ignore... I don't know how to do this, but I don't think it would be too hard to do, and would be very potent, especially for new people cruising through the site... Any comments? LA-EX

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 19:51:24 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: la-ex Subject: feedback ,please,on..'The Immaculate Deception' Message:

I think that is a terrific idea. But it will be a lot of work for some poor S.O.B. probably. Maybe not having an audio would simplify the creation of such a feature.Just have written quotes. But the direct comparison of CONTRADICTIONS and 'DOGMA MAKE-OVERS' sounds really good to me. To use the old chestnut: Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself! How about a sidebar section 'Say What?' that could feature the amazingly meaningless 'satsang' that consisted of incredibley vague and laughabley embarrassing (but we pretended to ourselves that it was charming and heavy) anecdotes, parables, metaphors and babble. I don't know how much of that stuff made it into print but I used to have those cassettes that were festival satsang and there were parts that wandered off on tangents that were quite OT! How about more on Bohle Ji 'The Musical Incarnation of God' and all the claptrap that came with THAT twaddle!!! Also we were told that Bal Bagwan Ji was the 'reincarnation of none other than Jesus'! (Pretty neat trick considering many scholars are now saying they have proof that Jesus never existed!) I forget what Raja Ji was supposed to be. (Another incarnation of some heavy-weight, I am sure!) Before and after; side by side comparisons!!! KILLER IDEA! How about the Marolyn turns into 'Durga Ji' then back to Marolyn thing? How about satsang about how premies should NOT get married or waste their time on personal love affairs...side by side with Marolyn (A PREMIE!) marrying Rawat!! This could be scathing! And hilarious as well!

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 20:02:45 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: la-ex Subject: PS Message:

Oh check the thread after this one...particularly the post from cq: Wasn't opposite 'The Feathers' in Ealing Broadway? -:- Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 11:52:13 GREAT little Mata Ji story there....We cannot forget about her colorful harangues...oops, satsang. What was she 'The Mother Of God' with permanent PMS? Her Holy Crankiness? Sheesh!

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:51:35 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Think of all the trees... Message:

Hi Ex-tex, your post reminded me of a little song we used to sing in the ashram in '73. The number of lines missing from the original is in direct proportion to the percentage of my brain still working. (I think there were 48 verses) Think of all the trees and all the flowers, think of all the rivers on their journey to the sea, And when the seasons change for you the last time, Say thank you for your life to Holy Mother Mata-Ji. La la lar la La la lar la Anth the lar la La la lar la

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Date: Tues, Sep 26, 2000 at 04:33:10 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: AJW Subject: At least she never claimed to be a virgin. Message:

Puke.

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 02:26:27 (GMT) From: TED Farkel-'preemie' Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. Message:

Hey folks-ole TED Farkel once again, spoutin off like he's knows something...I did want to clear a few things up before I get myself or the aspirants down here in Mobile into hot water with the honchos in either camp. First of all,I consider myself to be new at this stuff,sometimes I think I'm more of a 'preemie' than a 'premie'. So, because of that,I'm just 'all ears', as Ross Perot used to say...there's so much to understand about all this stuff...sometimes it looks like there might even be a few contradictions here with our master,but I'm sure he'll iron them all out eventually... Now,like a good premie,or PWK, as we're called these days,I took these well thought out questions to ELK, but those folks over there, they just seem too doggone busy to respond, so I wandered over here for some sage advice and general counsel. So far, no complaints, although I have been called a 'country bumpkin'.... But I wanted the folks at ELK to know, that they are more than welcome to participate in the 'Farkel-Drek' dialogues that I and my 'mentor',Mr. Roger eDrek are engaging in...I'd really like to get both sides of the story and sort things out as I go..,I'm sure there are wise men and women on both sides of the satsang hall... So, you dear folks over at ELK,come on over and join the fun...I've been told that you're monitoring us over here at EPO...you know, THIS is the site where the FUN is,so come on over and join us.... Which brings me to my question for the day, Mr. eDRek... Money-how about money? Now I know I can never,ever repay our master.. Why? Cause he told me so,and I believe him! But I'd like to try,so I'm gettin the $50/week video feed here at the shop.... But should I be doing more? I've got a sick mother and a couple of kids to tend to,but isn't our master more important? How much should I be givin to our master? I'm sure you old timers have thought this one through,and might have some wise counsel for old TED...both sides now... OK, catch you later, after the video feed at the shop... TED Farkel Oil and filter change-$19.95 (10% off for PWK's)

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:08:45 (GMT) From: Eric Email: None To: TED Farkel-'preemie' Subject: I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. Message:

I have only ever given money when I can afford it. I help pay for the registration at events. I don't particularly enjoy the satellite feeds and don't attend them religiously and when I do attend them I don't pay the full requested amount as I don't think the programme is actually worth it. I don't buy videos. But none of this affects my actual experience and practice of Knowledge. Nothing has ever been forced upon me and anything I have ever given has been by my own free will and because I hav e wanted to.

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 21:23:12 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Eric Subject: There's no such thing as 'free will' Message:

when you are in a cult like Rawat's. Everything you see is distorted throught the dirty glass of rawats dingy 'mirror.' Sorry, but this affords you zero credibility.

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 01:56:13 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: Is the season for Mushrooms up yet?..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 03:27:50 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: TED Farkel-'preemie' Subject: I'm new at this,so I'll give both sides a chance.. Message:

Dear Ted, Me thinks you are teasing. :) Maybe not. Anyway, I think m should be dispersing his funds to all the premies, ha! :) Makes more logical sense to me. I live in countrybumpkinville, PA, Lopez, PA actually, population LESS then 200! :) Main Street is 3 miles long and runs right into a dirt road on State Game Lands. :) I think I'd rather be in your countrybumpkinville though as mine is getting damned cold! Lopez is known as the Icebox of Pennsylvania, it is a small 'bowl' and cold air falls down all the surrounding mountains. We've already had 4 nights below freezing! Love, Robyn

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 22:49:00 (GMT) From: Wish Email: None To: Robyn Subject: This TED, doesn't seem real Message:

I enjoy very much reading Roger eDrek's funny and insightful responses. But I don't believe TED is for real! More like an ex or an old time premie trying to play around. TED is a big joke.

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 23:55:39 (GMT) From: Gordon Showcase Email: None To: Wish Subject: This TED, doesn't seem real Message:

What, you think that Ted might not actually be a premie after all? Like he's pulling people's legs or something? Thanks for that and let's face it, these ex-premies are such a bunch of liers that you never can be sure of anyone here!

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 16:53:29 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Gordon Showcase Subject: You're dead right Gordon Message:

anth the liar

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Date: Mon, Sep 25, 2000 at 02:00:26 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Gordon Showcase Subject: Do not say that about our little Teddy. Message:

He is only a little premie. Instead of criticizinghim like that you really shold help Roger finish his training.

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Date: Sat, Sep 23, 2000 at 17:46:06 (GMT) From: Rudy/Ralph Email: None To: Forum administrator Subject: Hoe did you know? Message:

Dear Forum Administrator: how did you know Rudy and Ralph are one and the same? I'm humbled by your omniscience. Who else am I?

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Date: Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 05:09:11 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Rudy/Ralph Subject: Go and read about what is an IP address is..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Sep 23, 2000 at 18:31:43 (GMT) From: Forum Adminstrator Email: None To: Rudy/Ralph Subject: Hoe did you know? Message:

Hmm, hoe did I know? I'll tell you if you tell me who you are and why you are here. Respect the guidelines and we'll welcome you to the feast...

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