Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 05, 2001 To: Nov 10, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Nogbad the Bad -:- Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:50:37 (EST)
__ Loaf who was there -:- Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:50:35 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Loafie: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:07:27 (EST)
__ __ A friend of Graculus -:- Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:17:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:26:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- it IS you!!! and a great honour it must be -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:35:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- I am humbled and honoured. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:52:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- so you should be. Now, for the picture posts -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:11:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Pic test ! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:50:12 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Glad you guys had a good time :) [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:49:17 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Peg! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:01:56 (EST)
__ Pauline Premie -:- You F___ing Brits -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:07 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Re: You F___ing Brits -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:16:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Pauline and Moley -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:47:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- okie-dokie Vickey -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:17:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Great poem Moley -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:09:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Moley has her main sheet up, Deborah:) -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:19:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Moley is often 3 sheets to the wind [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:30:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Moley has her main sheet up, LOL :) xx -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:11:07 (EST)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: re; John McGregor -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Is this the best you can do Cat? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- You should know by now.. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Yawn. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Debunking nonsense [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Great image Pat:C) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:42:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- ROTF...=rolling on the floor (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EST)
__ mags -:- Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:01:24 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- re: Magiclara's being -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:09:09 (EST)
__ __ __ magiclara/mags -:- Re: re: Magiclara's being -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Hmm... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:41:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Hmm... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:44:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: wot is a being or heing -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EST)
__ Noggin the Nog -:- Northlands Latvian Nite to come soon -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:50 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- I miss the Brits! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:31:01 (EST)
__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: I miss the Brits! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:55:08 (EST)
__ gerry -:- OOOOOOOOh another cell meeting, Aye???? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:13 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:03:09 (EST)
__ __ __ mags -:- Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:05:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Well, I'm green with envy ;) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:02:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Yes, Pat darling -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:25:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Count me in -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:33:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Mraianne, let me talk to the boys -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:12:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:18:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Will do, Vicki. We'll have some fun. [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:37:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- It must be ESPmail. I knew you'd be first -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:23:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Green with envy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:52:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- We'll have an SF Latvian night -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:31:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Well, I'm green with envy ;) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:20:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I will email you. Have fun plotting:) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:33:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Pat :) -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:09:41 (EST)

JHB -:- EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:57:53 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:49:42 (EST)
__ __ Mike Finch -:- A compromise -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:31:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:46:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Bad analogy, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:19:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- It's true, you have the wrong impression -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:26:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Quit insulting me, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:26:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Yes, you have raised legitimate issues.... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:34:30 (EST)
__ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: Bad analogy, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:17:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:41:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:35:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:29:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Infract the forum is a social club -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
__ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: Bad argument Jim -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:11:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Again, sheer stupidity -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ XYZ -:- Name Calling? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:29:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- that's your assumption! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 03:55:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cultists making assumptions -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:30:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Name Calling? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- What about a 3rd Forum? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:41:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: What about a 3rd Forum?????????? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:49:15 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- Hmm.. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:50:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Hmm.. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:52:34 (EST)
__ peg -:- Thanks for all your work John [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:03:11 (EST)

__ AJW -:- The laugh of liberation. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:31:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Anth, do you have the power? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:36:52 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Alas John, No. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:50:09 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- If you hear laugh of liberation.... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:34:49 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Ah, my mistake! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:37:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Yes, Thanks Pat. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:53:05 (EST)

AJW -:- Latvian Flower Power. (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:45:20 (EST)
__ such -:- Latvian Flower Power. (ot) [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:40:37 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Obviously Insane? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:54:31 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- The Latvian Connection. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:05:36 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- See also -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:53:23 (EST)

gerry -:- Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:22:24 (EST)
__ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:34:59 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:47:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Hi Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:04:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Hi Bunny. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:10:23 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- I think Gerry thought it was 16mm -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:44:11 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:13:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- sounds a great idea. But where? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: sounds a great idea. But where? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:36:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Curry in Bradford? You might be right -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:45:01 (EST)

Joe -:- Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 5 -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST)
__ AJW -:- The new websites. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:27:16 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Not to worry Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:36:35 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Aaaaagh. No not that. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:12:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Just kidding, Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:57:08 (EST)

cq -:- Meditation under the microscope -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:49:19 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Fascinating stuff, eh? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Re: Fascinating stuff, eh? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:47:31 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Meditation makes you go blind. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:44:30 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- where's your glasses you say? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:44:33 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:37:18 (EST)
__ david m -:- Re: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:19:56 (EST)
__ __ david m -:- Pie in the eye detroit style -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:26:18 (EST)

Vicki -:- Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)
__ Moley -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- Re: AND -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Very True, Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Hate to be a devil's advocate but ... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Other Names -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- This is what happened on EPO -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)
__ Peg -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Different Forum. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- It IS possible, Peg... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)
__ __ Peg and Joe -:- Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim S -:- Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- I think it's important to realise, too... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Agree with conditions -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Peg -:- Hi Deborah -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hi Peg -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks for that... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Wonderful, heartfelt post -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ KatieH -:- Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM** -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Thanks Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Newly Exiting Premies... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- More great posts Cynthia and Tonette -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- NoNoNo, Jim... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:50:37 (EST)
From: Nogbad the Bad
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
There was Me, Moley, Loafie, Magiclara & Mr Magclara... Glad to report a splendid time was guaranteed - and, indeed, enjoyed to many of enjoyment's natural limits - by one and all.

(Ok, it came close to fisticuffs once or twice, but you know how it is with rotting vegetables..)

Luv you all,
Nige

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:50:35 (EST)
From: Loaf who was there
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
Liverpool latvian nights never end... they just unfold.,, it was so nice to meet magiclara (and Robb)... I have never met such an etherial creature in me life !

What fun !

Fisticuffs ? Only cos Nige is working from an intellectual mindset - and I am trying to think and feel like a premie still... all the better to bridge two worlds.

Jai Sacks of Bananas !

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:07:27 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Loaf who was there
Subject: Loafie: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
Hi ... how are you today...me in mad rush now as day gone topsy turvy-split wine all over me lover's laptop whilst we were attemptimg to conduct the Pearl Fishers Duet (in the wee small hours) - perils of Latvian nites. Laptop had near death experience - !! (and us tooo)
Lots of Love Moles xxx - straddling the bridge between 2 worlds - oooch :) Off to Moley and Ratty's place! yakteryersoon
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:17:14 (EST)
From: A friend of Graculus
Email: None
To: Loaf who was there
Subject: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf?
Message:
'In the lands of the North, where the Black Rocks stand guard against the cold sea, in the dark night that is very long the Men (and Women) of the Northlands sit by their great log fires and they tell a tale...'

… a tale of glass mountains and Ice Dragons. Of the peaceful and honest people who inhabit the Northlands - the Nogs. And of our brave hero, Noggin the Nog, and his good wife, Nooka, daughter of Nan of the Nooks. Not forgetting Graculus, a large green bird from the Hot-water Valley, who is both servant and loyal and trusted friend to Noggin, and Grolliffe, a clerical-grade Ice Dragon and Honorary Treasurer to the Dragon's Friendly Society ….

Would you believe that the treasurer of The Dragon's Friendly Society goes by the name of Loaf (of Liverpool) who describes himself as 'a latter-day honorary dragon'.

Wonder if he's the same Loaf as posts here?

cq, looking forward to the forthcoming shindig of the Northlands Chapter of the Latvian Exes Appreciation Society.

'Oh lully, lully, oh lully my monster,
Sleep my scaly friend,
And fold your horny claws and slumber,
Happy in the end'.

[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:26:26 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: A friend of Graculus
Subject: Re: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf?
Message:
It wasnt my idea... i was only following orders ! It was Oliver Postgate who called me an honorary dragon anyway.... its a heavy mantle to wear... I think I am uniquely fleshy among other dragons, of Soup, or Ice... or even Idris

Nice pic of Graculus.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:35:54 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: it IS you!!! and a great honour it must be
Message:
it IS you!!! and a great privilege it must be to have such a noble honorary title bestowed on you - and by the man himself, Oliver (pishticoo) Postgate.

PS, pic of Graculus is copyright smallfilms, all rights reserved, and very naughty of me to 'borrow' it so shamelessly.

Oh, and do check my reply to Nottingham bunny here. And here's to a noggin at Noel, perhaps?

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=11139.0556796878

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:52:56 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I am humbled and honoured.
Message:
Its lovely really. A better link to our site would use frames...

how do you put pic in here ?
[ Page Link ]
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:11:04 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: so you should be. Now, for the picture posts
Message:
Here's one way of adding a pic to your posts here (which incidentally doesn't require having to set up your own website to store the pictures).

Step 1
go to http://www.alltheweb.com

Step 2
under the long white empty field, find the words 'search for' then click on the word 'pictures'

Step 3
Enter key word, e.g. 'Noggin the Nog' (remembering to tick the 'exact phrase' box if necessary)

Step 4
Click on the pic you want to use.

Step 5
You'll then see, alongside the pic, a description of the file, e.g.

Noggin.jpg (14632 bytes)

Image size: 235x268
File size: 14.3 kB
Format: JPEG
MIME type: image/jpeg
Last Modified: 1999-12-19
Non-Transparent

Links [ Page | Image ]

This image is copyrighted
to its rightful owner(s)

Where it says 'Links', click on the word 'Image'

Step 6
You are now at the site where that pic is stored. All that remains is to copy the address of that page (e.g. http://www.smallfilms.co.uk/noggin/noggin.jpg) and paste it into the field called Image URL when you're writing your post here on the Forum.

Step 7
Make mine a pint.

Cheers

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:50:12 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Pic test !
Message:
heehee it works !
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:49:17 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Glad you guys had a good time :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:01:56 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Peg!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:07 (EST)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: You F___ing Brits
Message:
You were always more into partying and drinking brew than ever practicing knowledge. No wonder nothing ever got together in the UK, unlike in America, Canada, Australia and the other English-speaking parts of Maharaji's world. You are very unsynchronized and it isn't funny. This is very serious. Plus you have rotten teeth. No wonder Maharaji has been forced to live in a delapidated house in Malibu. At least there, we have lots of together PWKs, like Valario Pascotto, Jean Marie Bonthos, Mary Holle, David Smith, Yoram Weiss, and David Andersen.

No wonder Elan Vital is falling apart while you party on your isolated island.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:16:24 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: You F___ing Brits
Message:
Hey - Pauline - wot the F**k you on about - we are totally synchronised with our Master - pissed as farts [Nige: speak for yourself, oh my beloved..] and incapable of finding a conveniemt orifice into which to place our digits. jai cat shit ananda.
PS actually we are totally rational and capable of piloting a gulfstream jet - honest, hicup oops where's me mala,
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:47:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Pauline and Moley
Message:
ROTFLMAO!!!

Oh, my gosh, a much needed laugh today! Please, don't stop. More More More!!!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:17:19 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: okie-dokie Vickey
Message:
Wot is ROTFLMAO? (get the last bit - (Jagdeo)Laughed My Arse Off)

Feel a premie poem coming on...

Oh, this Life
I am a little flower
Blooming for an hour (Well, fuck it rhymes - wot more do you want)
I am a little blossom
(Oh that would rhyme with 'possum' but I am avoiding the obvious Amaroo connection)
In this Life
Gratitude
Is all
And I am
I am
Blessed by His (note the capital 'H') effervescent-
Ness (gee - this rhyming lark is where it's at)
Oh the rising sun
Blowing in the wind
Is a candle in the Wind
Never Knowing where the wind blows
Like my little boat
Oh Lord
I am a rudder without an oar
(or is that ' an oar without a rudder')
I am a little oat (oops I mean 'boat')
I can't tell which way the wind
Is blowing
But I can adjust my rudder
(Apparently)
I'm diving down into the Ocean - I can't see anything
But That's cos the sand is all stirred up
And... (Oh Shit- I can'r bloody see anything)

[Fuck - give me some drugs for Chrissake]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:09:28 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Great poem Moley
Message:
How many sheets to the wind is your boat's sail. Glad to see you still having fun.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:19:00 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Moley has her main sheet up, Deborah:)
Message:
And rudder firmly in hand sailing over the ocean of maya. Just as well she didn't remember to breathe all the time - especially under water.

You're a hoot and a half, Moley.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:30:18 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Moley is often 3 sheets to the wind [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:11:07 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Moley has her main sheet up, LOL :) xx
Message:
What keeps me here is the amazement at the furballs you are willing to swallow. EG: J McG was never close like he describes. Only ever by accident. He has been bitter about not being accepted in to 'the gang' (his vision)for most of the nineties. He has not been close to M in all that time. Good fiction but only hearsay.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Re: re; John McGregor
Message:
Let's face it; even if Marolyn decided to leave M and posted here exposing everything M has done, CW would post the claim that she was never really close and just wanted to be. Heck, if M suddenly discovered his conscience and repented of all the evil he and Elan Vital have done, CW would post that M was never really close and was a wannabe.
CW's post regarding John McGregor is just his usual knee-jerk reaction.
Mickey who was never really close and didn't even want to be the Pharisee
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Is this the best you can do Cat?
Message:
It's pathetic.

So, you don't dispute any of John's claims then?

You have lots in common with the German guards defending Hitler's bunker against the Russians, 'Waiting for the Third Army to break through from the West'.

It's all over Cat. Luckily so many passengers left already there's plenty of room in the lifeboats.

Pack it in and go home mate. It's finished.

Anthski Ginski, lovechild of Mother Theresa and Joseph Stalin.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You should know by now..
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Yawn.
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.


---

sorry, I missed that, were you going to say something. Zzzzzzz.

anth the wake me up when the footballs on.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Debunking nonsense [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:42:38 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Great image Pat:C) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: ROTF...=rolling on the floor (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:01:24 (EST)
From: mags
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
I an known as magiclara but apparently that gives the impression of an ethereal being and the latvians who were there know this is not so. What's in a name eh. Yes a marvelous Latvian experience lets have more. What a good do.
love Mags
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:09:09 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: mags
Subject: re: Magiclara's being
Message:
Yes, I can confirm that Mags is not, I repeat not, an ethereal being. Au contraire - she is a corporeal heing par excellence
xxxxx Moldy-rotting-vegetable
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:52 (EST)
From: magiclara/mags
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: re: Magiclara's being
Message:
moley what is a heing? Anyway if it hadn't been for m we wouldn't have just had such a marv night had you thought of that? Sobering eh?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:41:01 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon,co.uk
To: magiclara/mags
Subject: Hmm...
Message:
Without M, I reckon we all might have been doing things a zillion times more interesting all these years, and would have started doing them a decade or two sooner.

But I reckon your real question, Mags, is should be: would we have had such a great time enjoying an excellent restaurant and pub meet (faniliar to non-cultists the world over) without ever having heard of M?

Had it happened - of course. That it didn't happen was just bad luck. But even better luck that it has happened now...

x Nige

BTW - Mags, Rob & Loaf - gotta meet up soon again.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:44:33 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hmm...
Message:
I have to say that Maharaji has made my life more interesting.. not less.

I wouldnt have missed it for the world. I have loved being a jet-set programme hopper... it was fab.

Every dog has his day.

So long and thanks for all the fish..

Loaf

PS I can confirm that Magiclara is about as etherial as a brick shithouse. Shes lovely !!!!!

Nice to meet you Rob too... I have to ask the question.. How are we going to handle the fall out when people like Robb start exiting in huge numbers ??

It took 4 of us to co-ordinate him last night...

Think of the Paperwork !!!!

Love to all

Loafie

xxx

PS I sent you a Huuuuuuuge 10 minute download email anger/desire/attachment Nige...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: magiclara/mags
Subject: Re: wot is a being or heing
Message:
Nige is going to reply to this below (or above) sounds biblical to me, all that 'above and below' crap- for which I take absolutely no responsibility... please excuse grammatical errors = am having trauma as I have apparently eaten all Nige's peanuts xxxx J-excuse , I am only a girlie
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:50 (EST)
From: Noggin the Nog
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Northlands Latvian Nite to come soon
Message:
Yes we had a jolly wacking time - and me and Magic managed to retain our feminine decorum at all times - despite extreme provocation!
Furthermore we are going to have a mega-Latvian nite in the Northlands soon- Hamzen and Dermot and Anth and Pat D.and Nick and Jethro and Joy and anyone else I have temporally forgotten - where are you...
Love Moles
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:31:01 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Noggin the Nog
Subject: I miss the Brits!
Message:
It sounds like you all had a fabulous time! Hung over today, anyone? Wish I could've been there.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:55:08 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: I miss the Brits!
Message:
Hi Marianne
Yes I must admit to a bit of a head today. I am thinking of dropping the magi from my name due to the shocking discovery that it makes people think that I am floaty and etherel. I am sorry to hear of your troubles with the scum. I hope we will be able to share a latvian some time. I have met four and half exes now and all are great. Bye for now. Magiclara, Clara, Mags, Clarence Clear.(Suffering an identity crisis)
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:13 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: OOOOOOOOh another cell meeting, Aye????
Message:
Well, we yanks ain't slackers in that department, either.

In a little known, clandestine meeting at my house the day before Hallow Eve, myself and two as yet to be named ex-premie miscreants got together to plot the Filament's demise in the great Pacific Northwest. That is, after we turned down the guitar amps and popped the caps on some Full Sail Ale.

Of course a full report is available to vetted, X-rated premies via Fouth Class (mail that is.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:03:09 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
yep - us tooo ... email me for further details

And f**k off EV monitor

xxx

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:05:21 (EST)
From: mags
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
Oh yes
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:08 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: mags
Subject: Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
oh yes, Oh yes...
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:02:13 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Well, I'm green with envy ;)
Message:
Maybe we need to do another SF Pigeon Fanciers' night. I'm definitely in the mood for some plotting. Also we need to spend the $300,000 dollars that we raised at the last SF Pigeon Fanciers' night. :)
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:25:51 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Yes, Pat darling
Message:
I was just thinking the same thing.

love me

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:33:09 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Disculta
Subject: Count me in
Message:
Who's going to do the organizing?
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:12:49 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys
Message:
I was thinking of a potluck at Joubert's with paper plates. That way we don't have to do any work but the space is good. The fireplace is cosy in winter and the booze is wholesale. Out of towners can bring some Chinese take-out. Set it up buffet style.

Again it will have to coincide with a weekend that we're closed otherwise we lose too much business on a Sat night. If anyone wants to do it on a Mon or Tues, then it could be anytime. The next time that we're closed will be just after Thanksgiving and again in March.

Anyone interested can email me. You don't have to do any work either, Marianne. Just bring some of that fantastic guacamole that we had at your house for dinner last time.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:18:05 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys
Message:
Ya hoooooey!!!! Count me in!
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:37:15 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Will do, Vicki. We'll have some fun. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:23:48 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: It must be ESPmail. I knew you'd be first
Message:
....to agree. Let's do it. I think we need a party after all the fanatical cultist terrorist attacks (CAC and WTC) and the blues that have descended on America the beautiful for the past two months.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:52:38 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Green with envy
Message:
Maybe the possiblity exists for having live satellite Latvian hookups world wide, ya know, interactive!
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:31:01 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: We'll have an SF Latvian night
Message:
I've floated the idea that we do one sometime this winter in SF. In June we had one in SF and 23 exes came from California. It was exhilirating.

If you ever wondered where all the warm and loving people went and why the cult was so cold and phony you'll understand as soon as you meet other exes. All the old love is there.

Anyway we need to gather around Marianne to give her our moral support.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:20:46 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Well, I'm green with envy ;)
Message:
yes - plotting ,,, Email me babe
---
and I've got a pic of me doggy for you - she is very cute... but seriously re: plotting - have fab idea - for Email only ....
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:33:50 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: I will email you. Have fun plotting:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:09:41 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat :)
Message:
In mad rush.... see me post to Loafie up above somewhere...
Will Email yer back Sunday at latest ****xxx
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:57:53 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
I've rewritten the forum introduction page on EPO following discussions about wavering premies posting here for the first time and the discussions about the Recent Exes forum here a few weeks ago.

I've tried to encourage new posters to read more of EPO before posting here, to introduce themselves a little, and to expect their ideas to be challenged.

Regarding Recent Exes, I promised Jim that I would review how EPO should advertise RE. I have been accepted as a member and I am happy that RE performs a valuable service, and deserves to be promoted on EPO.

I understand Jim's concerns that someone such as Mike Dettmers would post on RE and never be read by the wider premie/ex-premie community, but there is no evidence that that has, or would, happen. And as a member, if I read something that I believe deserves a wider audience, I will certainly encourage the poster to post it on F7 or allow it to be featured on EPO.

There is nothing mysterious happening on RE, just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:49:42 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
John,

What's the 'valuable service' Recent Ex's provides? And why does it deserve to be promoted on EPO?

Assuming that the online ex-premie community continues to grow, I still worry about a whole lot of people starting to join that select, private group. They'll all be able to read the regular forum, of course, although none of the regulars here can do the same there. I just don't like it.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:31:13 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A compromise
Message:
Assuming that the online ex-premie community continues to grow, I still worry about a whole lot of people starting to join that select, private group. They'll all be able to read the regular forum, of course, although none of the regulars here can do the same there. I just don't like it.

This suggestion has been made before, but I think it would answser most of your concerns, Jim, and also most of the concerns of exes or would-be exes: Have a forum which is password-protected to post, but open to be read by anyone.

I know there would still be a bunch of issues (how is it determined who gets a password to post ? How could the FA distinguish a genuine recent ex, who has no well known-ex to vouch for him/her, from a shit-stirrer ?), but if there is going to be a Forum that really caters to exiting premies, has a large audience, and is focused and credible, I think it will need to be something like that.

-- Mike

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:46:04 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
Jim,

RE provides an environment where exes can post without the fear of being attacked. Whether that fear is justifed or not, it exists, and I think the alternative for many posters is rather than face their fear they do not post at all. As it is, most of the posters on RE also post here, and new posters on RE have posted here after they feel more at home posting on a forum.

As the exes community grows, more forums will be required, not trying to restrict posters to one forum. I cannot keep up with the current forums, and I admit to being a forum junkie, so if everyone posted here it would be impossible to follow.

Regarding you not liking people talking without you being able to hear, well you'd better get used to it as it happens all the time. You yourself are involved in private exes' email discussion groups that most posters here are excluded from. Do you think that's wrong? RE itself started out as a private email discussion group.

I considered moving the reference to RE from the forum introduction page on EPO to the forums section of the Links page, but on reflection, I decided to encourage new people to post on F7 but also inform them of an alternative.

Which leads to the most difficult issue, which is the inevitability of rejection of some RE applicants. The RE FAs have admitted they didn't handle Steve's rejection as well as they could, but rejection is always going to hurt regardless of how it's expressed. Once the decision has been made, all the FAs can do is try to inform the applicant as tactfully as possible.

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:19:01 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Bad analogy, John
Message:
You yourself are involved in private exes' email discussion groups that most posters here are excluded from. Do you think that's wrong? RE itself started out as a private email discussion group.

For one thing, that's wrong factually. I'm not involved in any such email discussion group. I don't know what you're talking about unless it's being included in the odd bulk email. Hardly a 'group' though, for these purposes.

But anyway, even if I was, so what? I'd hardly expect EPO to advertise it. That's what 'private' is all about, isn't it?

The way I see it, either RE will relax a bit and be more inclusive so that yes, the Janets and Steves of the world aren't rejected because they're a little too this or a little too that OR it will continue to be a tad precious in its self-image and membership criteria. Both are problems.

If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:26:19 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's true, you have the wrong impression
Message:
(I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)

Jim, RE is there and it's part of that that vast body of information that is outside your reach. It's nothing mysterious, but it fulfils its purpose of allowing people to post without the fear of being attacked. It will always be flawed because the membership criteria are down to the judgement of current FAs and members and hence must be flawed.

Look all we're arguing about is whether RE should be mentioned on EPO as a footnote, or given a little prominence. Its existence is beyond your control.

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:26:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Quit insulting me, John
Message:
Cut that patronizing tone, John. Who are you playing to? Your new fellow RE members? I think I've raised enough legitimate issues that, if they're not pressing now, will be if the cult exodus accelerates.

Beyond that, yeah, I'm not afraid to say that I'm offended by the existence of a separate forum that EPO advertises which is like a chamber behind a one-way mirror looking onto this forum. Like I said, EPO doesn't advertise anyone's private email rings, if there even are such things. (Not just private but secret -- there's a difference, you know.)

But whatever. You're the boss. This forum, as you suggest, is for people who like to be attacked. And I guess this is just another example of me attacking or something. Yeah right.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:34:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, you have raised legitimate issues....
Message:
.....and I am attempting to address them.

I'll continue, starting with this comment of yours:-

This forum, as you suggest, is for people who like to be attacked.

I never suggested any such thing. I stated the fact (do you deny it's a fact?) that some people are reluctant to post here because of a fear of being attacked whether that fear is justified or not. I was afraid to post here before I did, and when I posted for the first time I was attacked. Mildly I accept, but it hurt. My first post was responding to someone talking about squeezing eyeballs where I attempted to correct the poster by describing the light technique as currently taught. The big thing for me was that I was breaking my vow of not revealing the techniques, a very important taboo for an exiting premie. Someone, I can't remember who, but I don't think it was you, told me I didn't understand the purpose of the forum. OK, I got through that and I am still here, but there are people who don't even get to taking that risk of posting. If RE can help those people, then it has value.

The fact is that most exes never post here nor on RE. They read EPO, or come to their own conclusions, and get on with their lives. Many exes write to me as webmaster to thank me (although I always tell them that others deserve the thanks) but never post.

Another fact is that apart from two or three occasional posters, all of the current RE posters have posted on this forum regularly. So your fear of newcomers going to RE and never coming here has little basis in fact.

And as I said before, if any new (or old) ex posts something on RE that really deserves to be read by a larger audience, then I will encourage tham to post here.

I have rewritten the forum intro page on EPO to encourage new people to post here, even if they are afraid of doing so, but have left the door open if they don't want to. I think that's the right thing to do.

And, Jim, if the problems you imagine actually manifest, then I'll remove all reference to RE on EPO.

So, does this satisfy you?

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:17:11 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bad analogy, John
Message:
Gotta all march to the same drum in the ex-premie cult, right Jim?? Better not let people decide what they want to do for themselves, that might be dangerous....
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:41:03 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you? Or is it too 'cultish' to want to know if it's one of your 'friends' behind that mask spitting at you? Or is even that question too something-or-other?

Anyway, you most certainly missed my point(s). But then I guess someone who thinks these kind of anonymous potshots are okay would do that.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:35:43 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you?


---

Why does it matter if you know me? Are you running a cult here, or is it a social club?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:29:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Re: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you?


---

Why does it matter if you know me? Are you running a cult here, or is it a social club?


---

It matters because anonymity like this is cowardly and unprincipled. By the way, your use of the word 'cult' is hilarious. Oh sorry, I guess my saying that is a cult-like!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Infract the forum is a social club
Message:
The people here are dedicated to social responsibilty and morality unlike Rawat's cultweasels.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:11:05 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bad argument Jim
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:34 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Again, sheer stupidity
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:29:30 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Name Calling?
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which
you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?


---

The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are. You are not a recent ex, so leave it be man. This is cult thinking -- more proof that you really are a cult of ex's. Really quite funny you can't see that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 03:55:22 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: that's your assumption!
Message:
The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are.

It's the organisational dynamics that are of concern, I think Jim's been completely clear about that. Better would be a password protected forum that everyone can read, but that only recent exes could post on.

There may be an air of confidentiality (for that would be the only difference) in the present arrangements for recent exes, but it is illusory. It would be better to dispense with that maya, do away with the apparent secrecy and be more open, while accepting contributions only from members.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:30:24 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Cultists making assumptions
Message:
I don't have any say in RE so I won't venture to agree or disagree with your suggestion. It is none of my business.

But have you noticed that one of the most irritating quirks of cult-think is the tendency to make assumptions about other peoples' motives and meanings? They never engage in conversation or consult you on the validity of their speculations but immediately presume to know what you are thinking.

I haven't thought this thing through completely and would appreciate some feedback. It's just that there is a certain irritating presumptuous air about cultists; at once insulting, patronizing and usually incoherently solipsistic.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Re: Name Calling?
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which
you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?


---

The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are. You are not a recent ex, so leave it be man. This is cult thinking -- more proof that you really are a cult of ex's. Really quite funny you can't see that.


---

First, you're avoiding everything I say. It's impossible to talk with anyone who acts the way you are. No wonder you don't have the guts to say who you are.

Second, your 'argument' is absurd. I'm not saying that I know what recent exes needs are better than they do. But even if I did, that would hardly amount to 'cult thinking'. That's simply laughable.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:41:06 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What about a 3rd Forum?
Message:
Specifically for exes only - but open - i.e. no password??? A place where 'vulnerable' new exes could 'cut their teeth' ??? And old -timers could help them along...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:49:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: What about a 3rd Forum??????????
Message:
Moley,

One problem regarding "NO passwords" here is that we have trolls whose mission is to be distruptive and debunk anything of value. Their energy is something nobody cutting their teeth should have to encounter.

That's one reason why I think RE is good. Perhaps, as a compromise RE should lax their restrictions to which exes can read. That way, everyone is happy. But it seems that RE doesn't want the new exes to feel challenged beyond their means, which I understand. So-what to do?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:50:13 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hmm..
Message:
John - I understand your points about RE providing a valuable service to its members, I guess. But I am not sure, without some kind of of upfront criteria about what is required of would-be members (aspirants?), whether RE should be advertised on EPO as a generic haven for recent exes.

Maybe a change of name would be appropriate before you restore the link. Either that or a clear definition regarding terms of membership over there. Rejection on grounds unspecified is the last thing any person leaving a cult needs, IMO.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:52:34 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hmm..
Message:
Nigel,

I think this is something the RE FAs should raise with new candidates when they apply, but I agree the issue of rejection is the most difficult for the FAs there to deal with.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:03:11 (EST)
From: peg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks for all your work John [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:31:13 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: ****
Subject: The laugh of liberation.
Message:
Hahaha


---

That must be the laugh of liberation.

Well, you know what the Buddha said, 'If you hear the laugh of liberation on the internet, delete it.'

Anth, getting into his zenses.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:36:52 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, do you have the power?
Message:
I always knew you were a megalomaniac. Soon you'll be after the sacred keys to EPO. Thanks for cleaning up the d-j-u-r-o-s-h-i-t.

John the mega

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:50:09 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Alas John, No.
Message:
After catching FV when Marianne threw it over the Atlantic, and wielding the rod of power for a year, the Hawks in Amerika have completed a palace coup, and I'm left drinking alone in a bar, waiting for a phone call. remembering the days when I'd swat **** when he appeared, and make up for sexual inadequacies by deleting all the feline posts as far back as I could.

Anth, if you can't get a shag kick the cat, as my old dad used to say...or was it shag the cat...I can't remember.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:34:49 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: If you hear laugh of liberation....
Message:
'If hear the laugh of liberation on the internet, delete it.'

I did. But I did it just as you were responding. This nut is probably D_J_U_R_O posting from India where he has just attended Rev Rawat's revivalist event.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:37:38 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ah, my mistake!
Message:
Thanks, Pat!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:53:05 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yes, Thanks Pat.
Message:
Thanks, Pat!


---

On the old forum, if you deleted a post, everything beneath it would go too. So I expected my bit of zeny wit was a kamakazi koan, and you went and saved it.

Take care

Anth, and zen I'll make lots of money.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:45:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Latvian Flower Power. (ot)
Message:
A sixteen year old Latvian student sloshed Prince Charles in the face with a carnation today, when he did a walk-about in Latvia. As she was carted off by the cops, she said she did it as a protest against British involvement in the war in Afghanistan.

The Latvian president apologised to Charles and said she was obviously 'insane'.

John, were you there? Are you related? Is she the bird Hamzen tried to chat up at the Latvian club after he drank 4 bottles of Zelta.

Anth, good to see the old country on the national news comrade.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:40:37 (EST)
From: such
Email: banana@301.com.au
To: AJW
Subject: Latvian Flower Power. (ot) [nt]
Message:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390040,00.html
[ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390040,00.html ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:54:31 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Obviously Insane?
Message:
I, as most other Latvians, have tremendous respect for our president who has to be the best educated leader of a country on this planet, but to categorise anti-war protest as insanity is a little harsh, don't you think?

Anyway, I'd better say something about Maharaji before Gerry bans me. Someone below said that Maharaji has gone into recluse mode. Good news there then.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:05:36 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: The Latvian Connection.
Message:
Hi John,

I thought Latvia was a connection. The Latvian club, site of the first knowledge review for exes, venue for the first ex-Latvian-pool competition.

Ah yes, the Captain- I hear his cult has collapsed. (polite cough.)

Anth the obviously insane too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:53:23 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: See also
Message:
See also Anything Goes Too forum, post titled ''Good grief, this is going too far!''
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:22:24 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
If you have old film footage like Satguru Has Come you can make video copies easily. All you do is set up a video camera up to videotape the screen upon which you show the movie. It sounds too simple and low tech, I know, but it works really well.

Then we could all have a good laugh...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:34:59 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
Hi Gerry,

Yes, I know both ways of copying videos. I remember seeing a very grainy bootleg ET with an ashram premie done that way, thought it had done it in a US cinema. What I meant was, I dont think the copy I have would reproduce that well. Somebody else may have a better copy for distribution.

I'm not exactly looking to court attention either. I've only just hopped from mole to bunnie. I like good parties though!

Regards

Bunny

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:47:50 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
Hi Bunnie,

do I know you?

Anth meet you at the lions and pop down the Trip for a quick one?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:04:48 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hi Anth
Message:
Hi Anth

Yes, and if you are around for the next couple of weeks we might be able arrange something in that vicinity with our mutual friend.

Love to Dot

Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:10:23 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Re: Hi Bunny.
Message:
I should be up for two or three days in a week or two. Email me, and we can meet up for a drink or coffee or something.

Hope all is well with you an our pal.

take care

anth miduck (The Cryptic to Jerusalem)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:44:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm
Message:
I think Gerry thought it was a 16mm film version you had.

Hey, I've got a copy (thanks to JHB) of the documentary that was made at Millennium '73 on video - how about a showing of that too? I live in Durham, is that far from you?

Or how about this - the 'latvian' night usually happens in the early part of the year, perhaps we could meet up in a hotel like last year, but rent a room with a video player too.

Anyone else up for it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:13:47 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm
Message:
Hi cq

Durham is far from most places!

Do you want to wait till March? We could break conventions and have a Xmas Latvian video party.

Regards,

Bunny

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:56 (EST)
From: cq
Email: christopher.giles@durham.gov.uk
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: sounds a great idea. But where?
Message:
sounds like a great idea. But where?

How about somewhere between Liverpool and Durham? Bradford perhaps? there's the BFI Museum and IMAX cinema there, which is well worth a visit, if we're going to make a day of it.

Any suggestions welcome - my email's above, or we could liaise via the Forum.

Christmas? Blimey. It's nearly here!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:36:49 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: sounds a great idea. But where?
Message:
marvelous cheap curry in Bradford as well.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:45:01 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Curry in Bradford? You might be right
Message:
And we could have a great sing-song with titles like these:

Korma Chameleon - Culture Club

Tears On My Pilau - Kylie Minogue

Tikka Chance On Me - Abba

You Can't Curry Love - Diana Ross and the Supremes

It's Bhuna Hard Days Night - The Beatles

Dansak on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

We Are Jalfrezi - Sister Sledge

Love me Tandoor - Elvis Presley

Livin' Dhal - Cliff Richard

Raita Here, Raita Now - Fatboy Slim

Tie me Vindaloo down sport - Rolf (can you smell what it is yet?) Harris

And finally, we can all sing along with Queen to this one:

Bohemian Curry (To the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody)

Naan-aa, just killed a man
Poppadom against his head
Had lime pickle, now he's dead.
Naan-aa, dinner just begun
But now I'm going to crap it all away.
Naan-aa, ooh-ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry,
Seen nothin' yet just see the loo tomorrow,
Curry on, Curry on,
cause nothing really madras.
Too late, my dinner's gone
Sends shivers up my spine
Rectum aching all the time.
Goodbye every bhaji, I've got to go
Gotta leave you all behind and use the loo.
Naan-aa, ooh ooh,
This Dopiaza's mild,
I Sometimes wish we'd never come here at all... (Guitar solo)
I see a little chicken tikka on the side, Rogan Josh, Rogan Josh
pass the chutney made of mango.
Vindaloo does nicely
Very very spicey ME!
Biryani (Biryani)
Biryani (Biryani)
Biryani and a naan,
(A vindaloo loo boo...)
I've eaten balti, somebody help me
He's eaten balti, get him to a lavatory Stand you well back
Cause this loo is quarantined.
Here it comes,
There it goes,
technicolor yawn.
I chunder
No!
It's coming up again
(There he goes) I chunder
It's coming up again
(There he goes) It's coming up again,
(Up again) Coming up
again (up again)
Here it comes again
(No no no no no no no no no No).
On my knees, I'm on my knees, I'm on my knees Oh there he goes
This vindaloo
Is about to wreck my guts
Poor me... Poor me... Poor me!
(Guitar solo)
So you think you can chunder and still it's alright?
So you want to eat curry and drink beer all night?
Ohh maybe, now you'll puke like a baby,
Just had to come out,
Just had to come right out in here.... (Guitar solo)
Korma, saag or bhuna,
Balti, naan, bhaji.
Nothing makes a difference
Nothing makes a difference to me
(Anyway, my wind blows.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 5
Message:
From what I know, here's where we stand with the most recent attacks by Maharaji against his former followers.

Last Sunday (11/04) we discovered SIX attack websites by Maharaji followers trying to smear ex-premies to blackmail them from discussing Maharaji or his cult on the Internet.

As of yesterday, four sites remained (not three like I mistakenly said yesterday), and as of today, three remain:

http://right2hate.webhop.net/
http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/
http://www.powow.com/right2hate

I believe the first and third of the above URLs have identical content. That's the 'red' site, that compares EPO to Neo-Nazi and KKK groups and lists seven ex-premies as hosting six 'Anti-Maharaji' sites.

The fourth site, that still existed yesterday, has been removed, and today I received the following email after I complained about it:

Hello,

The Abuser/Spammer you emailed about has been dealt with.

Thanks For Your Interest In The FreeHomePages.Com Network.

FreeHomePages.com Abuse Dept.
http://www.freehomepages.com/
http://www.searchit.com/

Here's the email I sent to them:

I wish to report a defamatory hate site on your server, or on a server hosted by you.
>
>The address is:
>
>http://www.pagerealm.com/csit/
>
>This websit was prepared by current members of the Maharaji cult, attacking former members who are speaking out on the internet about their
former cult.
>
>This website is defamatory and libelous to me and others. If it is not withdrawn immediately, I will have no other choice but to file suit against your company.
>
A similar site was on the Angelfire/Lycos server, and Lycos has already removed it. I hope that your company does the same. Obviously, time is of the essence.

Joseph Whalen

Still nothing whatsoever from Elan Vital, either in response to my email, or on their website, and certainly nothing from Maharaji.

Also, the Andersens and Mitch Ditkoff, although claiming to be addressing the 'innocent bystanders' apparently do not seem to care about what they think of these kinds of activities, let alone what we think about it.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:27:16 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The new websites.
Message:
Hi Joe,

I think the new sites are much worse than the old CAC site. I had a whole page to myself on that one. Huh! Where are those creeps who put the new sites at? Do they not understand how important I am?

Anth, I want a page all to myself again, or I'm taking my computer home.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:36:35 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Not to worry Anth
Message:
Don't worry Anth, I'm sending them my copies of 'All God's Children' and they are planning to showcase you in a big spread.

Richard who used to be Postie and learned to suffix his name from Mr. Ginn

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:12:55 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Aaaaagh. No not that.
Message:
You rotten bastard. Going for my achilles eh? I'll take a leaf from my old guru's book and deny everything.

I don't usually quote myself, but, 'The way to our Father's feet is through satsang, service and meditation and we should do everything we can to help each other on the way. He is our all and he is our life. So let's all head for the silk socks of infinity together. Surrender, lay down your arms and give him your mind...etc'

Anth, OK I admit it, I was a complete prat. Leave me alone now will you? We all make mistakes. Pass me the bottle and let me forget.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:57:08 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Just kidding, Anth
Message:
Anth,

Just a little nudge-nudge wink-wink to see if the ol' heart was still working. Apparently so and here's the bottle you requested. In, fact I'll send 'round a whole case as you are such a fine gent.

Richard who, speaking of mistakes, hopes those Polaroids never fall into the wrong hands

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:49:19 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Meditation under the microscope
Message:






 



Neurotheology - meditation under the microscope


Here's an article from Newsweek (May 7th 2001) that looks interesting:

Religion And The Brain

By Sharon Begley; With Anne Underwood

In the new field of 'Neurotheology,' scientists seek the biological basis of
sprituality. Is God all in our heads?

One Sunday morning in March, 19 years ago, as Dr. James Austin waited for a
train in London, he glanced away from the tracks toward the river Thames.
The neurologist--who was spending a sabbatical year in England--saw nothing
out of the ordinary: the grimy Underground station, a few dingy buildings,
some pale gray sky. He was thinking, a bit absent-mindedly, about the Zen
Buddhist retreat he was headed toward. And then Austin suddenly felt a
sense of enlightenment unlike anything he had ever experienced. His sense
of individual existence, of separateness from the physical world around him,
evaporated like morning mist in a bright dawn. He saw things 'as they really are,'
he recalls. The sense of 'I, me, mine' disappeared. 'Time was not present,' he says.
'I had a sense of eternity. My old yearnings, loathings, fear of death and insinuations
of selfhood vanished. I had been graced by a comprehension of the ultimate nature of things.'

Call it a mystical experience, a spiritual moment, even a religious
epiphany, if you like--but Austin will not. Rather than interpret his
instant of grace as proof of a reality beyond the comprehension of our
senses, much less as proof of a deity, Austin took it as 'proof of the
existence of the brain.'
He isn't being smart-alecky. As a neurologist, he
accepts that all we see, hear, feel and think is mediated or created by the
brain. Austin's moment in the Underground therefore inspired him to explore
the neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experience. In
order to feel that time, fear and self-consciousness have dissolved, he
reasoned, certain brain circuits must be interrupted. Which ones? Activity
in the amygdala, which monitors the environment for threats and registers
fear, must be damped. Parietal-lobe circuits, which orient you in space and
mark the sharp distinction between self and world, must go quiet. Frontal-
and temporal-lobe circuits, which mark time and generate self-awareness,
must disengage. When that happens, Austin concludes in a recent paper, 'what
we think of as our 'higher' functions of selfhood appear briefly to 'drop
out,' 'dissolve,' or be 'deleted from consciousness'.'
When he spun out his
theories in 1998, in the 844-page 'Zen and the Brain,' it was published not
by some flaky New Age outfit but by MIT Press.

Since then, more and more scientists have flocked to 'neurotheology,' the
study of the neurobiology of religion and spirituality. Last year the
American Psychological Association published 'Varieties of Anomalous
Experience,' covering enigmas from near-death experiences to mystical ones.
At Columbia University's new Center for the Study of Science and Religion,
one program investigates how spiritual experiences reflect 'peculiarly
recurrent events in human brains.' In December, the scholarly Journal of
Consciousness Studies devoted its issue to religious moments ranging from
'Christic visions' to 'shamanic states of consciousness.' In May the book
'Religion in Mind,' tackling subjects such as how religious practices act
back on the brain's frontal lobes to inspire optimism and even creativity,
reaches stores. And in 'Why God Won't Go Away,' published in April, Dr.
Andrew Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania and his late collaborator,
Eugene d'Aquili, use brain-imaging data they collected from Tibetan
Buddhists lost in meditation and from Franciscan nuns deep in prayer to...
well, what they do involves a lot of neuro-jargon about lobes and fissures.
In a nutshell, though, they use the data to identify what seems to be the
brain's spirituality circuit, and to explain how it is that religious
rituals have the power to move believers and nonbelievers alike.

What all the new research shares is a passion for uncovering the
neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experiences--for
discovering, in short, what happens in our brains when we sense that we
'have encountered a reality different from--and, in some crucial sense,
higher than--the reality of every- day experience,'
as psychologist David
Wulff of Wheaton College in Massachusetts puts it.

In neurotheology, psychologists and neurologists try to pinpoint which regions
turn on, and which turn off, during experiences that seem to exist outside time
and space. In this way it differs from the rudimentary research of the 1950s and
1960s that found, yeah, brain waves change when you meditate. But that research
was silent on why brain waves change, or which specific regions in the brain lie
behind the change. Neuro-imaging of a living, working brain simply didn't exist back
then. In contrast, today's studies try to identify the brain circuits that surge with
activity when we think we have encountered the divine, and when we feel transported
by intense prayer, an uplifting ritual or sacred music. Although the field is brand new
and the answers only tentative, one thing is clear. Spiritual experiences are so consistent
across cultures, across time and across faiths, says Wulff, that it 'suggest[s] a common
core that is likely a reflection of structures and processes in the human brain.'

There was a feeling of energy centered within me... going out to infinite
space and returning... There was a relaxing of the dualistic mind, and an
intense feeling of love. I felt a profound letting go of the boundaries
around me, and a connection with some kind of energy and state of being that
had a quality of clarity, transparency and joy. I felt a deep and profound
sense of connection
to everything, recognizing that there never was a true
separation at all.

That is how Dr. Michael J. Baime, a colleague of Andrew Newberg's at Penn,
describes what he feels at the moment of peak transcendence when he
practices Tibetan Buddhist meditation, as he has since he was 14 in 1969.
Baime offered his brain to Newberg, who, since childhood, had wondered about
the mystery of God's existence. At Penn, Newberg's specialty is radiology,
so he teamed with Eugene d'Aquili to use imaging techniques to detect which
regions of the brain are active during spiritual experiences. The scientists
recruited Baime and seven other Tibetan Buddhists, all skilled meditators.

In a typical run, Baime settled onto the floor of a small darkened room, lit
only by a few candles and filled with jasmine incense. A string of twine lay
beside him. Concentrating on a mental image, he focused and focused,
quieting his conscious mind (he told the scientists afterward) until
something he identifies as his true inner self emerged. It felt 'timeless
and infinite,'
Baime said afterward, 'a part of everyone and everything in
existence.'
When he reached the 'peak' of spiritual intensity, he tugged on
the twine. Newberg, huddled outside the room and holding the other end, felt
the pull and quickly injected a radioactive tracer into an IV line that ran
into Baime's left arm. After a few moments, he whisked Baime off to a SPECT
(single photon emission computed tomography) machine. By detecting the
tracer, it tracks blood flow in the brain. Blood flow correlates with
neuronal activity.

The SPECT images are as close as scientists have come to snapping a photo of
a transcendent experience. As expected, the prefrontal cortex, seat of
attention, lit up: Baime, after all, was focusing deeply. But it was a
quieting of activity that stood out. A bundle of neurons in the superior
parietal lobe, toward the top and back of the brain, had gone dark. This
region, nicknamed the 'orientation association area,' processes information
about space and time, and the orientation of the body in space. It
determines where the body ends and the rest of the world begins.
Specifically, the left orientation area creates the sensation of a
physically delimited body; the right orientation area creates the sense of
the physical space in which the body exists. (An injury to this area can so
cripple your ability to maneuver in physical space that you cannot figure
the distance and angles needed to navigate the route to a chair across the
room.)

The orientation area requires sensory input to do its calculus. 'If you
block sensory inputs to this region, as you do during the intense
concentration of meditation, you prevent the brain from forming the
distinction between self and not-self,' says Newberg. With no information
from the senses arriving, the left orientation area cannot find any boundary
between the self and the world. As a result, the brain seems to have no
choice but 'to perceive the self as endless and intimately interwoven with
everyone and everything,' Newberg and d'Aquili write in 'Why God Won't Go
Away.' The right orientation area, equally bereft of sensory data, defaults
to a feeling of infinite space. The meditators feel that they have touched
infinity.

I felt communion, peace, openness to experience... [There was] an awareness
and responsiveness to God's presence around me, and a feeling of centering,
quieting, nothingness, [as well as] moments of fullness of the presence of
God. [God was] permeating my being.

This is how her 45-minute prayer made Sister Celeste, a Franciscan nun,
feel, just before Newberg SPECT-scanned her. During her most intensely
religious moments, when she felt a palpable sense of God's presence and an
absorption of her self into his being, her brain displayed changes like
those in the Tibetan Buddhist meditators: her orientation area went dark.
What Sister Celeste and the other nuns in the study felt, and what the
meditators experienced, Newberg emphasizes, 'were neither mistakes nor
wishful thinking. They reflect real, biologically based events in the
brain.'
The fact that spiritual contemplation affects brain activity gives
the experience a reality that psychologists and neuroscientists had long
denied it, and explains why people experience ineffable, transcendent events
as equally real as seeing a wondrous sunset or stubbing their toes.

That a religious experience is reflected in brain activity is not too
surprising, actually. Everything we experience--from the sound of thunder to
the sight of a poodle, the feeling of fear and the thought of a polka-dot
castle--leaves a trace on the brain. Neurotheology is stalking bigger game
than simply affirming that spiritual feelings leave neural footprints, too.
By pinpointing the brain areas involved in spiritual experiences and tracing
how such experiences arise, the scientists hope to learn whether anyone can
have such experiences, and why spiritual experiences have the qualities they
do.

I could hear the singing of the planets, and wave after wave of light washed
over me. But... I was the light as well... I no longer existed as a separate
'I'... I saw into the structure of the universe. I had the impression of
knowing beyond knowledge and being given glimpses into ALL.

That was how author Sophy Burnham described her experience at Machu Picchu,
in her 1997 book 'The Ecstatic Journey.' Although there was no scientist
around to whisk her into a SPECT machine and confirm that her orientation
area was AWOL, it was almost certainly quiescent. That said, just because an
experience has a neural correlate does not mean that the experience exists
'only' in the brain, or that it is a figment of brain activity with no
independent reality. Think of what happens when you dig into an apple pie.
The brain's olfactory region registers the aroma of the cinnamon and fruit.
The somatosensory cortex processes the feel of the flaky crust on the tongue
and lips. The visual cortex registers the sight of the pie. Remembrances of
pies past (Grandma's kitchen, the corner bake shop...) activate association
cortices. A neuroscientist with too much time on his hands could undoubtedly
produce a PET scan of 'your brain on apple pie.' But that does not negate
the reality of the pie. 'The fact that spiritual experiences can be
associated with distinct neural activity does not necessarily mean that such
experiences are mere neurological illusions,'
Newberg insists. 'It's no
safer to say that spiritual urges and sensations are caused by brain
activity than it is to say that the neurological changes through which we
experience the pleasure of eating an apple cause the apple to exist.'
The
bottom line, he says, is that 'there is no way to determine whether the
neurological changes associated with spiritual experience mean that the
brain is causing those experiences... or is instead perceiving a spiritual
reality.'

In fact, some of the same brain regions involved in the pie experience
create religious experiences, too. When the image of a cross, or a Torah
crowned in silver, triggers a sense of religious awe, it is because the
brain's visual-association area, which interprets what the eyes see and
connects images to emotions and memories, has learned to link those images
to that feeling. Visions that arise during prayer or ritual are also
generated in the association area: electrical stimulation of the temporal
lobes (which nestle along the sides of the head and house the circuits
responsible for language, conceptual thinking and associations) produces
visions.

Temporal-lobe epilepsy--abnormal bursts of electrical activity in these
regions--takes this to extremes. Although some studies have cast doubt on
the connection between temporal-lobe epilepsy and religiosity, others find
that the condition seems to trigger vivid, Joan of Arc-type religious
visions and voices. In his recent book 'Lying Awake,' novelist Mark Salzman
conjures up the story of a cloistered nun who, after years of being unable
to truly feel the presence of God, begins having visions. The cause is
temporal-lobe epilepsy. Sister John of the Cross must wrestle with whether
to have surgery, which would probably cure her--but would also end her
visions. Dostoevsky, Saint Paul, Saint Teresa of Avila, Proust and others
are thought to have had temporal-lobe epilepsy, leaving them obsessed with
matters of the spirit.

Although temporal-lobe epilepsy is rare, researchers suspect that focused
bursts of electrical activity called 'temporal-lobe transients' may yield
mystical experiences. To test this idea, Michael Persinger of Laurentian
University in Canada fits a helmet jury-rigged with electromagnets onto a
volunteer's head. The helmet creates a weak magnetic field, no stronger than
that produced by a computer monitor. The field triggers bursts of electrical
activity in the temporal lobes, Persinger finds, producing sensations that
volunteers describe as supernatural or spiritual: an out-of-body experience,
a sense of the divine. He suspects that religious experiences are evoked by
mini electrical storms in the temporal lobes, and that such storms can be
triggered by anxiety, personal crisis, lack of oxygen, low blood sugar and
simple fatigue--suggesting a reason that some people 'find God' in such
moments. Why the temporal lobes? Persinger speculates that our left temporal
lobe maintains our sense of self. When that region is stimulated but the
right stays quiescent, the left interprets this as a sensed presence, as the
self departing the body, or of God.

I was alone upon the seashore... I felt that I... return[ed] from the
solitude of individuation into the consciousness of unity with all that
is... Earth, heaven, and sea resounded as in one vast world encircling
harmony... I felt myself one with them.

Is an experience like this one, described by the German philosopher Malwida
von Meysenburg in 1900, within the reach of anyone? 'Not everyone who
meditates encounters these sorts of unitive experiences,'
says Robert K.C.
Forman, a scholar of comparative religion at Hunter College in New York
City. 'This suggests that some people may be genetically or temperamentally
predisposed to mystical ability.'
Those most open to mystical experience
tend also to be open to new experiences generally. They are usually creative
and innovative, with a breadth of interests and a tolerance for ambiguity
(as determined by questionnaire). They also tend toward fantasy, notes David
Wulff, 'suggesting a capacity to suspend the judging process that
distinguishes imaginings and real events.'
Since 'we all have the brain
circuits that mediate spiritual experiences, probably most people have the
capacity for having such experiences,'
says Wulff. 'But it's possible to
foreclose that possibility. If you are rational, controlled, not prone to
fantasy, you will probably resist the experience.'

In survey after survey since the 1960s, between 30 and 40 percent or so of
those asked say they have, at least once or twice, felt 'very close to a
powerful, spiritual force that seemed to lift you out of yourself.'
Gallup
polls in the 1990s found that 53 percent of American adults said they had
had 'a moment of sudden religious awakening or insight.' Reports of mystical
experience increase with education, income and age (people in their 40s and
50s are most likely to have them).

Yet many people seem no more able to have such an experience than to fly to
Venus. One explanation came in 1999, when Australian researchers found that
people who report mystical and spiritual experiences tend to have unusually
easy access to subliminal consciousness. 'In people whose unconscious
thoughts tend to break through into consciousness more readily, we find some
correlation with spiritual experiences,'
says psychologist Michael
Thalbourne of the University of Adelaide. Unfortunately, scientists are
pretty clueless about what allows subconscious thoughts to pop into the
consciousness of some people and not others. The single strongest predictor
of such experiences, however, is something called 'dissociation.' In this
state, different regions of the brain disengage from others. 'This theory,
which explains hypnotizability so well, might explain mystical states, too,'
says Michael Shermer, director of the Skeptics Society, which debunks
paranormal phenomena. 'Something really seems to be going on in the brain,
with some module dissociating from the rest of the cortex.'

That dissociation may reflect unusual electrical crackling in one or more
brain regions. In 1997, neurologist Vilayanur Ramachandran told the annual
meeting of the Society for Neuroscience that there is 'a neural basis for
religious experience.'
His preliminary results suggested that depth of
religious feeling, or religiosity, might depend on natural--not
helmet-induced--enhancements in the electrical activity of the temporal
lobes. Interestingly, this region of the brain also seems important for
speech perception. One experience common to many spiritual states is hearing
the voice of God. It seems to arise when you misattribute inner speech (the
'little voice' in your head that you know you generate yourself) to
something outside yourself. During such experiences, the brain's Broca's
area (responsible for speech production) switches on. Most of us can tell
this is our inner voice speaking. But when sensory information is
restricted, as happens during meditation or prayer, people are 'more likely
to misattribute internally generated thoughts to an external source,'
suggests psychologist Richard Bentall of the University of Manchester in
England in the book 'Varieties of Anomalous Experience.'

Stress and emotional arousal can also interfere with the brain's ability to
find the source of a voice, Bentall adds. In a 1998 study, researchers found
that one particular brain region, called the right anterior cingulate,
turned on when people heard something in the environment--a voice or a
sound--and also when they hallucinated hearing something. But it stayed
quiet when they imagined hearing something and thus were sure it came from
their own brain. This region, says Bentall, 'may contain the neural circuits
responsible for tagging events as originating from the external world.'
When
it is inappropriately switched on, we are fooled into thinking the voice we
hear comes from outside us.

Even people who describe themselves as nonspiritual can be moved by
religious ceremonies and liturgy. Hence the power of ritual. Drumming,
dancing, incantations--all rivet attention on a single, intense source of
sensory stimulation, including the body's own movements. They also evoke
powerful emotional responses. That combination--focused attention that
excludes other sensory stimuli, plus heightened emotion--is key. Together,
they seem to send the brain's arousal system into hyperdrive, much as
intense fear does. When this happens, explains Newberg, one of the brain
structures responsible for maintaining equilibrium--the hippocampus--puts on
the brakes. It inhibits the flow of signals between neurons, like a traffic
cop preventing any more cars from entering the on-ramp to a tied-up highway.

The result is that certain regions of the brain are deprived of neuronal
input. One such deprived region seems to be the orientation area, the same
spot that goes quiet during meditation and prayer. As in those states,
without sensory input the orientation area cannot do its job of maintaining
a sense of where the self leaves off and the world begins. That's why ritual
and liturgy can bring on what Newberg calls a 'softening of the boundaries
of the self'--and the sense of oneness and spiritual unity. Slow chanting,
elegiac liturgical melodies and whispered ritualistic prayer all seem to
work their magic in much the same way: they turn on the hippocampus directly
and block neuronal traffic to some brain regions. The result again is
'blurring the edges of the brain's sense of self, opening the door to the
unitary states that are the primary goal of religious ritual,' says Newberg.

Researchers' newfound interest in neurotheology reflects more than the
availability of cool new toys to peer inside the working brain. Psychology
and neuroscience have long neglected religion. Despite its centrality to the
mental lives of so many people, religion has been met by what David Wulff
calls 'indifference or even apathy' on the part of science. When one
psychologist, a practicing Christian, tried to discuss in his introductory
psych book the role of faith in people's lives, his publisher edited out
most of it--for fear of offending readers. The rise of neurotheology
represents a radical shift in that attitude. And whatever light science is
shedding on spirituality, spirituality is returning the favor: mystical
experiences, says Forman, may tell us something about consciousness,
arguably the greatest mystery in neuroscience. 'In mystical experiences, the
content of the mind fades, sensory awareness drops out, so you are left only
with pure consciousness,'
says Forman. 'This tells you that consciousness
does not need an object, and is not a mere by-product of sensory action.'

For all the tentative successes that scientists are scoring in their search
for the biological bases of religious, spiritual and mystical experience,
one mystery will surely lie forever beyond their grasp. They may trace a
sense of transcendence to this bulge in our gray matter. And they may trace
a feeling of the divine to that one. But it is likely that they will never
resolve the greatest question of all--namely, whether our brain wiring
creates God, or whether God created our brain wiring. Which you believe is,
in the end, a matter of faith.

Sharon Begley; With Anne Underwood

[ Neurotheology ]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Fascinating stuff, eh?
Message:
We use to have some pretty intense discussions here on this theory of the brain/mysticism connection. Nobody seems much interested anymore. Maybe we've discussed all that can be to this date. But it's something to keep an eye on. The secrets of the brain is without a doubt the most interesting field of study in science today, IMHO. I, particularly, find the study of consciousness and mysticism from this angle to be the most enlightening means of knowing oneself. It's true you can have an intuitive sense of self but to know the mechanics of that intuition goes one step further. Really amazing stuff. I love it.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:47:31 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Fascinating stuff, eh?
Message:
It's also very refreshing to have this kind of subject dealt with by non-mystics. (OK, they still want their papers published, but without the foot-kissing).

I've yet to hear of a new-age mystic who encourages/promotes this kind of research. Have you?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:44:30 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Meditation makes you go blind.
Message:
The Jesuits got it right Chris. Meditation makes you go blind.

(To the tune of feniculi fenicula)

'Last night, I lay in bed, I pulled my plonker..etc'

Anth, where's me glasses? Ouch!

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:44:33 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: where's your glasses you say?
Message:
where's your glasses you say?

so that's why they call it the one-eyed trouser snake.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:37:18 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy
Message:
Documents courtesy of one of my cyber-friends ....
[ 1st terrorist attack ever against God !! ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:19:56 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:26:18 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: david m
Subject: Pie in the eye detroit style
Message:
Jean-Michel.. sorry i blew the first one..anyway i was from Detroit{Bloomfield Hills}..i was living in Atlanta at the time of the pie fiasco..We were waiting for GM to come to Atlanta for a major program..which he did not show up for..sent Raja Ji instead..I went back to detroit in Sept and all the premies were still defending Fakairnands hammer throw into Pat Haleys skull...this is when i had my first seed of doubt in the DLM I really thought it was kind of funny..Pie in the eye..oh well thanks for the memories..Peace..David
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Newly exiting premies
Message:
I've been mulling over the situation of people who are rather shell shocked in learning the facts about M and EV. It is indeed a very fragile state, customed designed. It doesn't hit everyone the same way, but it does hit and hit hard.

The suggestion I would like to propose is that we have a sub forum. Is this possible? Whereby a new person would be able to say what they need to say and are not responded to except by perhaps a few people who are rather good in this much needed hand holding phase. Perhaps the person John was referring to, for starters. Then, when they are through this phase and feel a bit stronger, they can jump into the forum and join in the fun.

I know I'm setting myself up for getting a good shakedown here, but at the risk of sounding offensive, without the benefit of time between a person and the world of knowledge, it is too fresh and raw to be handled in a typical way.

Look at the incredible amount of highly intelligent people here who joined up with M and how long it has taken to unravel the web that all that involved, still involves. Hindsight is 20/20, but new peolple do not have that luxery yet.

I remember how I felt when I made my first, naive posting. The response I got back felt like a ton of bricks crashing down. It wasn't, but it FELT like it. People who are fully involved in practicing knowledge and devoted to M are in a precarious position when the facts come to light and their world shakes, rattles and rolls on the reichter (sp) scale. Anything that can be done to ease this pain would perhaps be of benefit, and we will all eventually benefit when their information of the inner workings of behind the scenes sees the light of day.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:
On your idea of a sub-forum for new exes.... Well, as I said elsewhere, maybe a gentle 'exiting' forum would be a good idea. A forum for exes only - where only issues directly relating the cult were discussed. But I think it would have to be open to all exes. Cos who knows who would be a 'special' person to an exiting premie... different strokes for different folks....
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: AND
Message:
Hi there,

I support your idea but I have no energy for this type of thing. But if you do, then go for it. Get a few collaborators together and create it. Part of my current mission in the world is the creation of an AND culture. This AND that - not this OR that. Which means there is room for many different types of solutions.

I remember my first post here - Jim crashing down like a hefalump and feeling sorry for me, a few bemused responses and a few supportive responses. I've also found as much and more difficulty posting on other highly friendly, integrated, professioanl internet/email groups. Self presentation is problematic for most people in certain circumstances. If you can do something to create another space where people who are unable or unwilling to post here, could do so then - best of luck! It would be a worthwhile endeavour. Either for yourself or encouraging others to join you. I'd also be interested to be kept abreast of any such development.

Good luck

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:
Hi Vicki,

I live next to the sea. When I go for a swim, it's really uncomfortable getting in, because it's cold at first. It's OK after a few minutes, but the initial getting wet is the worst bit of all. It's not comfortable. It's too late to turn back because you'd look like a prat. Ugggh. Aaaagh. Why does it have to be so.

I remember when I first crept nervously out the cult. My feelings were as you describe. My fingers shook the first time I posted (anonymously) on the forum. But it's OK. I don't think any ex-premies who post here do for any negative reasons. Most folk are actually quite friendly.

Swim. Splash. Adjust. Aaah. It's not so bad. In fact I'm enjoying it. The sea's not so cold after all. Outside the cult life is a bit more rough and ready. What people say isn't controlled. Some people aren't as friendly and lubby dubby as we might like. Some folk are downright rude.

But it's OK. The heart of this forum is healthy and free. Nobody's come up with a better idea yet.

And once you get your shoulders wet, and splash around a bit, it's OK.

Getting your ideas challenged is healthy.

Come on in. The water's lovely. (This cold, salty analogy, won't make sense to folk who leave near a warm sea.)

Anth the drip drip splash glug cough (choking on my own words as usual).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:
You are absolutely spot on, as per usual. If I had been able to articulate what I was feeling, you might have responded with this lovely post, and I might have been a little braver.

So if there is anyone who wants to post but is afraid, it is exactly as Anth says.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water
Message:
In my ten months here maybe I have seen about ten new comers arrive and you were the only one who seemed to just slip in like it was your natural environment. I did not but that's because I charge in like a bull in a china shop. I really appreciate having you here. You are so damn sane an sensible.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Very True, Vicki
Message:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Like we were discussing down below, what seems to many of us as just normal discussion, on this subject, to a questioning premie, it seems like a personal attack because the cult-programming is so ingrained, and so much of the identity of a premie. It's hard to take on the 'arguments' without seeming overly aggressive, even hurtful to the newly freed.

Didn't the 'recent exes' forum fulfill the function to a certain extent? I have never been there, but from what I understand it has been utilized quite a lot. The problem is you have to get a password and in the early stages of leaving the cult, someone may not want to do that.

It's a difficult thing to address. I think the major answer is for all of us to keep in mind what it felt like when we left the cult. Although it was a long time ago, I was devestated, and very fragile. I stayed away from premies, and they stayed away from me. But it would have been nice to be able to contact some ex-premies and get some help. So, on balance, even with all of its flaws, this forum is better than people trying to go 'cold turkey' on their own.

I think this is a really good issue to keep coming back to, because it's important, particularly if, as appears to be happening, premies are leaving the cult in larger numbers than before.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hate to be a devil's advocate but ...
Message:
... there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from starting any kind of forum they please. Vicki's suggestions and the suggestions of several others are very good, and possibly this sort of thing is needed, but F7 and EPO are not an organization. There's no club to petition here!

When people suggest things, there is no one to do it, unless someone likes the suggestion and wants to step up to the plate. I daresay a premie who has not exited or is newly exiting may want to start this sort of thing up, themselves. Maybe it could be called Doubting Thomases or something like On the Fence. As I understand it, RecentExes is for people that are sure they are through with the Maha. If someone is still wavering, they probably won't belong there either.

Most people don't seem to have either the time or the computer knowledge to start and monitor new Forums. It's not easy. My hats are off to Gerry, Chuck (AGII) and RE for being there for people.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Other Names
Message:
How about:

Limboland
Mirage Ji
Exit Signs
Border Crossing
Repair Shop
Not Yet Ready for Prime Time
The Recovery Room
The Last Training
Head Cleaner
The China Shop

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: This is what happened on EPO
Message:
When I blocked Jim from ForumV because I felt EPO was under threat and people complained, I said, as others have, that if people want a forum run the way they want, then they can set one up. This is what happened with Sir Dave setting up Forum VI and consequently Gerry with Forum VII. Everyone who looks after a forum or a website does so because they think it's worthwhile. They don't work for anyone else, and are not accountable to anyone else; except in my case, as I have inherited a website, I feel responsible to the people whose work set it up and helped me leave the cult.

Anyway, if anyone sets up a new forum, then I'll be happy to link to it from EPO.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:
Well I won't shout you down. I am sure the whole thing is reaching a critical mass and there will be lots of people who come here. My husband was told that maharaji has gone into a recluse mode.. who knows where that will end up. The thing is there will also be lots of people who don't come here too. I notice that an awful lot of the people here are pretty articulate, intelligent, curious etc also they are to some degree into computers. I don't think all premies are like that, hopefully something will evolve for them too.

I have also thought about another kind of forum. One difficulty is that if it was open (which it would surely need to be for people to be attracted to it) it would almost certainly be visited by disruptive premies. perhaps it is possible to have anyone reading but password protected for posting? I expect there will be some constructive and computer literate solutions put forward. I quite like the idea of doing that 'service' if we can get something together. I wouldn't be able to do the computer stuff at the moment tho.
Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Different Forum.
Message:
Hi Peg,

You can have a forum with different levels of access, set up how you like. I think the old recent exes forum was for members only. To join you had to be proposed by an existing member.

It's three years since I left the Captain's cult, and I'm starting to forget what it was like.

Take care,

Anth, to some degree into computers.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: It IS possible, Peg...
Message:
Your idea to have a forum where everyone could read, but only people with a password could post, is possible with a Hotboards forum (like this one). Even a 'free' forum (with advertisments) gives you that option. Signing up to create a forum is just as easy as signing up for a free email account.

The difficulty is, who decides who is allowed to have a password, and who is not? Would people be allowed to post anonymously? Your idea is a good one, but someone would have to step forward and be willing to be 'in charge', and set the ground rules. If a few people got together and did it as a team, it would probably be easier on all concerned.

Also, a paid forum is $10.00 a month for up to 25,000 postings, and it costs an additional $10.00 for every additional 25,000 postings. (A 'free' forum has a limit on the number of posts allowed, I forget the exact figure). On my Anything Goes forum, I have yet to pay more than $10.00 a month, because it hasn't reached 50,000 a month. But on this forum, I think the figure is pushing close to $100.00 a month (Gerry could say for sure).

Probably the biggest problem to solve is getting people who have the time to devote to setting it up and managing it, especially when passwords are involved. I unfortunately don't have the time, the Anything Goes forum pretty much runs by itself, I only step in if there is a major problem, and there hasn't been one yet (knock on wood!).

I suspect a forum like you suggest would work best if managed by a small group, so the work didn't all fall on one person. It's just a question of who wants to get together to do it, and if it would be a paid site or a free (limited use) site.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)
From: Peg and Joe
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:
Maybe even a specially flagged posting here that designates a new person who wants to post without being deluged with debate? I know we all like to hear from new people, no matter what stage they are in, and any information, whether it is from an x-rated, pam, church lady or average premie, is of value. I don't think it's too much to ask for some kid glove treatment during the initial exiting. Infact, I feel it's essential when people are trying to regain their footing.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)
From: Jim S
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:
I agree, that might be easily done.

Maybe an icon that would designate a new poster who would rather not be challenged at this point, but simply wants to post and hear from other like minded people who have had similar experiences....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: I think it's important to realise, too...
Message:
... that posting on an internet forum, ANY intenet forum, for the first time, can be a daunting experience. Total strangers start to disect your posts, and ask you to explain yourself. It's very easy to interpret that as an attack, but it helps to remember that this is a place of words and ideas; no one can see your face, they often know nothing about your personality. They only see the ideas you have expressed, and when they question that, it's easy to be taken aback, and feel you are being challenged to defend yourself.

That's how it seemed to me at first, but since then I've become used to the process, and now it just seems natural and ordinary if anyone questions what I say. It often leads to further clarification, or helps me modify my position in lieu of new or better information. I've also realized that I don't have to agree with anyone anyway, that it's o.k. to disagree, or even refuse to talk to anyone I don't want to talk to.

So at least to a degree, the apprehension new exes may feel in posting may well be their general inexperience posting on an internet forum. I've vistied other forums since posting here, and found that other forums aren't so different, in terms of the ways people communicate (and mis-communicate). When you are new to the internet fourm arena, it takes a while to get your bearings and feel comfortable. Even becoming familiar with the mechanics posting adds to the stress till you figure out how it all works.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Agree with conditions
Message:
Hi peg,

Long time, no post. How are you doing? Do you feel that you were handled appropriately when you arrived? I remember posting to you and giving you some pointers to deflect unwanted responses.

How about having a preamble about 'how-to' arrive. i.e.

1. Introduce yourself or your handle and say something about yourself in regards to Maha.

2. Mention what you want to talk about and what you don't and if challenged, ask the poster not to question you further, etc.

The onus should not be on the exes to take apologetic swipes on the chin or abusive 'hate' and 'angry' slurs, etc.

But yes, compromise. don't forget: RE is acceptance only and they do not want people sitting on the fence. For a good reason. It is Recent Exes and they NEED to talk NOT debate.

Thanks for your input Peg.

deborah

p.s. Also, NO cacweasels allowed in the house ~)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deborah
Message:
I remember you were one of those people who spoke to me first. Everyone was vey kind when I first arrived and actually has been since.

But I was already over the fence by that time, (I wonder if anyone can really read epo and not be) and I am not the sort of person who gets a strong response, I'm pretty scared and cautious where people are concerned.

The people who get the stick, apart from the premie wind up merchants, are the doubting premies who come here and try and salvage some goodness out of the whole thing by arguing. i wanted to do this too but was too careful to do much of it out loud. Now I find myself still intact and in fact even liberated and clearly see that I was really repressing a lot to be a premie.. now I can let myself be angry and critical and agree with the general climate here. It takes a while though to clamber down to the other side and get my bearings. All sorts of loose ends to tie up.

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Hi Peg
Message:
Peg,

You say,

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

I personally would like to see every premie be an ex. But it's not a direct goal. My main goal is to see Maha shut up once and for all and pack up his silly but dangerous megalomaniac greedy con game.

It is more my goal to diffuse as much of Maha's momentum and expose his past and current inconsistencies. He is a fraud and the level of psychological damage that he is causing people is criminal. I walked away over a decade ago, but I never acknowledged the cult and its implications. To eventually do so, was devastating. And that process only happened here at the EPO forum. I had conveniently discounted my encounter w/Maha as an adolescent spiritual mistake. Bull shit! When I opened the door to let that phantom out, it choked me.

Witnessing Michael Dettmers' post confirmed something BIG was wrong.

To read that a premie I knew committed suicide, asking Maha to reincarnate her in the next lifetime with him was what cracked that cult-safe open. Could you imagine the pain that her family had to endure reading her last words.

And I know for a fact, that her parents tried to deprogram her, but Maha's goons deceived her parents. She also came from a famous literary family. And I think her mother is an actress on a campy soap opera. Of course, we saw that as 'the Grace of the Lord'. How sad! That showed me the depth of the cult damage.

Peg, another thing about this forum is that it is dynamic. And s0metimes we fight amongst ourself and the forum breaks up and in the case of FV, Jim got banned. The one person I had met in over 12 yrs and the whole thing freaked me out.

What was worse, is that I was left on my own to deal with the multiple personalities coming from at least two premies apiece. And their goal was to upset me and they were UGLY, I mean UGLY.

So, I thought there was about 30 premies all equally sick in the head and violently abusive. Turned out it was the tactics of a couple of premies whose names I'm sure you can guess. So, needless to say, I attacked anybody who was a premie because I thought they were all the same and I never knew who was who. That shit can't go on here anymore.

When I got a grasp of the situation and realized that some premies were not the same as the monsters, I changed my attitude completely.

I'll defend the accusations but I feel the challenge is just in being here and I'd rather have them comfortable and stay and learn something.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Peg and Vicki
Message:
I'm glad you are raising this subject. I was wanting to ask you what your experience was. This really needs tobe talked about. Until we get some sort of ''subforum'' into place I would suggest that a link to a little blurb be put at the top of the forum saying something like: ''New posters please click here to find out more about this forum.''

The blurb could say something like this:

''New posters please be aware that there are some heated discussions already occurring on this forum and it is not a good idea to jump into a controversial conversation immediately until people have gotten to know you.

''Please introduce yourself and request email addresses from people you already know or ask for someone kind and patient person to email you to help you to introduce yourself.

''Look at the White Pages addresses on EPO and see if there is an ex-premie who you know. It is also a good idea to read the Journeys section on EPO and see if there are any exes with whom you feel you could relate to and perhaps email them.

''The Ex-premie forum has a long history and many of the people here have known each other for years. Corresponding with one of the regulars who can fill you in on this history would help to understand many of the dynamics of the forum.

''Because it is an open forum cult apologists do post here and they can be extremely insulting and disruptive in their attempts to intimidate ex-premies. It is best to ignore them.''

Something to that affect. I feel as if I've already been here forever eventhough it's only been ten months but it took me at least six months to really understand the regulars and to trust and respect them.

I would like to see all new exes have more say in this.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Peg and Vicki
Message:
Elan Vital inadvertantly sent me to EPO. I was on First Class, checking in to see what needed doing, and came across a blurb that said if anyone needed counseling from the disruption at the Mainz (sp) program, they should call said number and talk with instructors.

Well, that put a big question in my curious brain and so I went looking to find out what could have possibly happened that people would need counseling. No where on the net could I find anything so I ended up here and found it being discussed on the Forum. I started reading the EPO site and got my socks blown off.

I would check in to see what ya all were discussing and I remember feeling like I wanted to say something, but didn't dare. I just wanted to talk but I didn't even know what to say, how to say it or if I could say anything at all. The more days that went by and I kept logging on to the Forum, the more amazed I was that people were actually so open. I finally couldn't stand it anymore and got brave, jumped in and honestly it felt like I had hit a button to detenate myself when I actually posted. It was terrifying.

That posting was so very hard. You all were seasoned, had been through this rocky journey, were rock solid in your convictions, and here I was, this nearly 30 year pwk that was dutifully living the life and times of Maharaji's World. For those of you that weren't there, that was a big buzz word at a Long Beach event.....the world of knowledge. There's this world but then there's the other world, the world of knowledge.......

For me, it was like jumping into a blender and having someone hit frappe. I can't explain what it's like to one day be a Erika whats her name and the next, sitting bug eyed at the comp feeling like calling 911 to bring a straight jacket, and take me where? Where the hell does one go to recover, recapture, reorganize a life that flew out the window in less than a blink of an eye?

I couldn't call my best friends who had watched me join up way back when and thought I'd lost all my marbles.

I couldn't call up my parents who had watched me march off to every corner of the world to see M, join an ashram and leave behind everything that had ever meant anything to me.

I couldn't tell my husband that the greatest thing in my life, which I introduced him to, was a big scam.

I couldn't tell my children, who I had spoon fed on knowledge and now wanted knowledge for themselves, that it was all possibly one big lie.

I couldn't call up the premies I have spent these years with and blow their world up along with mine.

I couldn't put an APB out over First Class and ask for clarification, well maybe I should have.

The point is, as my world was falling apart, I really had no where to turn but here. Honestly.

Finding a psychiatrist and to even start to go into this was too much to even contemplate.

Nope, you guys were it. You didn't know you were it, but you were. Sanity in the face of my dwindling grip on the most intimate part of my soul.

Trying to sort through EPO was daunting, but coming to the Forum was real. You were real people talking. And as much as I needed the history, I needed real people at the most fragile time in my life.
I've been through a lot in my life, a whole lot as a matter of fact, but not one thing has knocked me more for a loop than finding out my perfect master, my living lord, my reason for having a human life make sense, was a....well you all know what goes here.

So what would have made it easier for me? I don't know, something between recent ex's (too scared to give my real name and email) and the forum. Although, I feel if people on the forum had known what my state of being was, they would have been gentle. But it doesn't help in those first days to be told it will get better. It's true, but the feelings are so raw, honestly I just needed some tlc and chai. That chai thread was one of my favorites.

My reason for starting this discussion was because if it is as John says, then it would be great if we could update just a little to make it easier for the ones he said want to post but aren't strong enough yet. I am eternally grateful for everyone here and for the EPO site.
It would have been a long, long, long lonely road to try and go it alone.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!!
Message:
Amazing, and articulate Vicki! Just amazing.

Good work. Maybe this should be your journey? I haven't written mine yet either!

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks for that...
Message:
Wow, that was amazing. I could almost feel those feelings. I hope your post can get saved, because so many people need to hear that others are feeling the same things they are. And isn't it wonderful that in those times it isn't isolation but other people whom you sought to be with?

I love that line. To one day be Erika Andersen and then the rest...

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Vicki
Subject: Wonderful, heartfelt post
Message:
Vicki, that was such a warm and wonderful post. The image of your heart changing in the blink of an eye as you read the forum was amazing, and so accurate.

So glad you're here.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)
From: KatieH
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM**
Message:
I'm glad you started to post here - your posts have been great. BTW, I do remember what you mean about Mainz - Wolfie brought it up here.
Thanks,
Katie
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks Vicki
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki
Message:
I bet you don't realize that you are writing history. Maybe not the kind everyone will be interested in but that will help other people who were caught up in this cult.

I had no idea that EV offered ''counselling'' after the French debacle. That's history. Thank you. I bet you didn't even realize that that is a significant piece of information.

You said their was a disruption at Mainz. I thought it was in Versaille. Jean-Michel was blamed for that of course. He's a wonderful man.

A post by Pauline Premie inspired me to join in the fun here. I was ROTFLMAO as you would say. I had tears in my eyes. That's what made me realize I belonged here. I needed that healthy irreverence to break my superstitious fear of M. My heartfelt thanks to Pauline Premie.

Someone else once said that his break with the cult occurred because of Chuck's spoof You Too can be Satgooroo

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Newly Exiting Premies...
Message:
Hi All,

Vicki's post certainly brought back memories of my cow in a china shop entrance, exit, re-entrance, exit, and my last return to the forum which has stuck. Yes, yes, I can be a bitch, I know. But I am concerned that new exes realize that if they are honest with us we will be honest with them. Often they might not like what they read, but isn't that also part of the exiting? Learning to think, question authority, allowing doubts about m to emerge, the emotions, and examining the whole gawd-awful con is part of leaving.

Some new ex-premies post here before first reading EPO and observing the forum. Some have a tendency to want to change it--I know because I had plenty of suggestions at first. I've seen it again and again in other newbies. Is it part of the ''always be nice'' syndrome learned from the cult? I guess none of this is easy, especially with EV Monitors, CACa sites, and Maharaji going down the tubes.

It's very painful to admit that 25 years of my life were used up believing in santaji. Leaving the cult is much more than saying ''I quit'' and walking away (M always says premies are free to come and go--yeah, right).

IMO, this forum is the only place for exes to come, new or old, to discuss the experience of being in the Maharajism cult, and the process of leaving. It's a tender time for new exes, but I believe that it's healthy for new exes to dip their toes in the water here.

We're not a bunch of monsters and we are imperfect humans. There's a lesson in that. There is much kindness here, too.

I've always thought this place to be inprecedented. Unless someone is actually suicidal or seriously mentally ill, they will live through coming to the forum. I've noticed a new civility here lately and it's good. Yet, as we never were allowed to do before, we do argue like siblings sometimes. I don't see anything wrong in having disagreements, as long as the new exes realize it's probably something between two folks right here, and is not about them.

Just my penny's worth,
Cynthia

P.S.: The humor here is vital, too. For some, the jokes about m might be too much at first. It was pretty weird for me, but I got over it soon and find it a healthy release. Doggie Darshan!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious
Message:
Hey Cynthia and Pat,
I found this thread very interesting in that it pretty much sums up the dynamics of the forum. This forum can be loving, extremely funny and also brutally hurtful. The problem with this forum and it's form of commucication, is that it lacks the other equally important cues of communication. Voice inflection, bodylanguage and facial expression to name a few. This form of non-verbal communication, here on the forum, is limited at best. It's so easy to misunderstand what someone is trying to convey to you. Was that sarcasm? A joke? Did that person just call me stupid? Why is this person so angry?
Another problem with this forum is for those of us who don't know each other in person. I don't think I have ever met anyone who posts here nor do I know anyone here from my premie days. I might have known of you but I don't have any old friends here. That's okay in and of itself, but it does and did put me at a disadvantage when I first started posting here. That's why I think the Latvaian Nights are such a good idea when they happen.
I agree with you Cynthia, this forum has mellowed somewhat in recent months. I think everyone for the most part is much gentler and more tolerant of each other. I know I am.
I remember becoming completely consumed with this forum when I first was directed here. I also remember feeling extremely angry. Up to that point in my life, I had not had anyone to whom I could discuss my complete disgustion with Maharaji. My husband was a premie at the time and thanks to this venue he has exited. And prior to exposure to this forum, I had not been able to understand and come to terms with what the fuck had exactly happened to me. How and why did I get sucked into a cult and end up spiritually raped? I always considered myself so level headed for the most part. The information here and on EPO has helped immensly. But boy, coming here really 'liberated' some suppressed and repressed feeling and thoughts in regards to Maharaji and those who help him perpetuate it. Maybe that's not fair to the PAM's but it's my take on it. I still have some anger and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing but my predominate thoughts and feelings toward premies in general is pity. My take on M is one of disgust. I think he is evil and probably dangerous. In my book, he spreads more suffering and psychological harm that is given by his circus stunt meditation techniques.
Yes, the forum is a process. Posting is an acquired art. Just learning the lingo here can take awhile. You also have to be careful in some respects. And for pete's sake, to those who are new here, don't get drunk and post. You end up embarrassing yourself. Remember, above all, not to take it too seriously. A slightly thickened skin is advantageous.

Kind regards, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: More great posts Cynthia and Tonette
Message:
I also want to say how glad I am that Vicki, Peg, Magiclara and Suedoula have persevered and added their voices to the forum and for emailing me and tellingme more about themsleves. Thanks to all of you but an especial thanks to Pauline Premie who saved me from the clutches of a dying cult.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: NoNoNo, Jim...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What?
Message:
I don't remember that. What they did to poor old Ned Beatty is called doggie style.
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