Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 05, 2001 To: Nov 10, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


michael donner -:- bring from below -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:34:33 (EST)
__ Posting for John McGregor -:- Here it is -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:42:17 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Wise comment about arguments / people -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:02:30 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- John Mc, you said... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:48:54 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Pat, just be patient -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:01:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Well put JHB -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:19:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You're right, John -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:09:56 (EST)
__ __ __ Mike Finch -:- John and Pat: demolishing arguments -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:10:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh no, not the 'abuse' flag again! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:43:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: John and Pat: demolishing arguments -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:27:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- What are you talking about -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:58:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- How about this? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:27:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Very funny -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:56:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- CW, how many times have I tried being nice? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:13:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW, how many times have I tried being nice? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:52:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- CW, you're such a supercillious nerd -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:42:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW, you're such a supercillious nerd -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:41:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW, you're such a supercillious nerd -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:40:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Absolute bollocks Pat -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:05:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- David Roupell, talk to McGregor and McDonald -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:58:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- I'm calling it the PatDeb shuffle! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 23:01:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cult harassment patrol -:- SC is David Roupell -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:30:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Cat, you protest too much -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:38:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Cat, you protest too much -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:05:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- CW, say that to McGregor's face -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:12:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- whispering evil rumors behind peoples' backs? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:17:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cult harassment patrol -:- SC is David Roupell -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:27:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Peter Stanton Please NOTE -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:56:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- PETER STANTON PLEASE NOTE -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:38:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- GO MEDITATE, DAVID ROUPELL -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 01:00:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW, say that to McGregor's face -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:45:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW, say that to McGregor's face -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:44:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- More can be done in that regard -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:20:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- PS John and Mike -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:19:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Adrianna Kavortz -:- This man is telling a porkie -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:36:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- This woman is a man in drag -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:52:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AK -:- Still a porkie Patsy -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:32:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cult harassment patrol -:- AK is David Roupell [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:37:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Tim G -:- Re: PS John and Mike -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:17:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But, you are always sweet, Tim -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:29:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tim G -:- Re: Mike/civility -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:08:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Mike, I was just thinking about that -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:40:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- True, but hostility is in the eye of the beholder -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:29:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike Finch -:- True, but hostility is in the eye of the beholder -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:41:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Mike F -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:54:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Hey dont start changing Pat. [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:59:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You too, bill-nt :) [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:30:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- I second that emotion Pat -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:00:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Richard, maybe it was serendipity -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:48:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- I think you mean Brian, Pat -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:48:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Yes, I mean Brian, Richard -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:19:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I agree, and thanks. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:57:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- The post below to Marianne not you Joe, FA? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:43:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- I think there is another side to it as well -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:37:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- The stakes have changed around here for me -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:15:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Marianne -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:21:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike Finch -:- Your post -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:04:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Re: The stakes have changed around here for me -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:31:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: The stakes have changed around here for me -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:21:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Precisely, Joe -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:49:16 (EST)

Tim G -:- Practicing Knowledge? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:23:33 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Breathing on your own now Tim? Wow! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:54:59 (EST)
__ __ Tim G -:- Re: Breathing on your own now Tim? Wow! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:19:15 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Knowledge? Why should I have to practice... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:33:22 (EST)
__ __ Tim G -:- Nice one Pat. nt -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:16:23 (EST)
__ __ **** again -:- Re: Knowledge? Why should I have to practice... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:23:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Tim G -:- RE : When you don't -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:15:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- perfection! Now thats a concept -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:24:54 (EST)

Cynthia -:- Enough is Enough With These Trolls! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:15:31 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- BAN the TROLLS GERRY -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:30:07 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- It's no use -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:37:40 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: It's no use -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:44:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I offered to delete them, Gerry -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:27:18 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Gerry, let them be -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:40:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- What about the fact that... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:20:53 (EST)
__ CW -:- Clear thinking? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:10:14 (EST)
__ __ SC -:- What? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:18:00 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Hey Cat. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:29:56 (EST)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: Hey Cat. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:04:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Hey Cat. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:22:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Hey Cat. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:42:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Answer the questions Fuckwit. (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:01:08 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- If that's what everyone wants and Gerry agrees... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:33:50 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Yes, good idea -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:40:09 (EST)
__ __ Selene -:- one of the issues -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:41:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks Pat and Selene... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- As Jim has pointed out many times -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:05:40 (EST)

Pat:C) -:- Why do Sicko Cacweasels post here and... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:53:50 (EST)
__ Abi -:- the creepy class -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:43:18 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Hi Abi, how are you? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:34:02 (EST)
__ Francesca ~) -:- **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM*** [nt] -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:14:21 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Francesca, but.... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:57:08 (EST)
__ Jim -:- They've trivialized themselves immensely -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:05:20 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- Re: They've trivialized themselves immensely -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:02:12 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- But they are putting up a fight -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:21:06 (EST)
__ don -:- you may be surprised pat, but I like this post. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:28:20 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Not too surprised, don -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:57:12 (EST)
__ __ __ don -:- 21st century schizoid man.. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 07:19:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- So you hate me coz I hate rock n roll? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:37:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ don -:- the brandenburgers?? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:36:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Anything with a choir of angelic human voices [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:52:16 (EST)
__ don -:- Re: Why do Sicko Cacweasels post here and... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:26:41 (EST)
__ Sir Dave }( -:- Correction -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:34:52 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- Correct Weight -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:55:52 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- That's all they have. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:06:50 (EST)
__ __ Selene -:- repeating something over and over -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:10:39 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:05:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Smoking with Michael Nouri -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:17:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Re: Smoking with Michael Nouri -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:23:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- No coatracks, my dear... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:49:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- haha I hope you are joking? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:57:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- It's a joke... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:56:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- The god of the coatracks? LOL [nt] -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:34:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Where is Rennie Davis when he is really needed -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:37:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ A Friend -:- Rennie's back -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:18:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Rennie Davis, I think... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:17:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- wannabee snobs more likely -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:04:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Andrea Eriksonn -:- Ladies, please! You make is sound like... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:22:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brother Hal N. Back -:- One question, Andrea -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:18:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's not the clothes its the shopping -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:28:30 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- Oh ,I dunno........ -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:04:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Goddess Diana? I've a question for you CW -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:57:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Goddess Diana? I've a question for you CW -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:00:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Abi -:- your sexism is impotent and pathetic -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:18:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: your sexism is impotent and pathetic -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:48:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Abi -:- your sexism is impotent and pathetic -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:17:09 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- You got it, Tonette. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:25:56 (EST)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: You got it, Tonette. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:10:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You prove my point in spades, Cacweasel [nt] -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:35:53 (EST)

Larry hart -:- Blue Aquarius -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:18:00 (EST)

Marianne -:- CAC, Elan Vital, and Maharaji-Alert -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:03:28 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Re: CAC, Elan Vital, and Maharaji-Alert -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:07:08 (EST)
__ Joe -:- My Email To EV re Attack Sites -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:14:31 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Joe and Marianne, what I want to know... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:28:03 (EST)
__ FYI -:- CAC site is gone -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:09:59 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- False info on site was used -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:37:34 (EST)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: False info on site was used -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:32:44 (EST)

Marianne -:- Explanation of incongruities, John???? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:10:42 (EST)
__ John -:- Explanation -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:43:29 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Re: Explanation -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:04:39 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Harboring a Paedophile??? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:22:38 (EST)
__ Jean-Michel -:- I suggest ***** best of **** nomination -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:47:05 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Re: Explanation of incongruities, John? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:02:28 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- You're too damn cute, PatD -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:51:41 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Death threats against Exes? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:41:23 (EST)
__ __ __ PatD -:- Re: Death threats against Exes? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:55:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Quote from Maharaji -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:02:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Jeth, where did you hear that? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:17:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- I have it on tape -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:02:54 (EST)


Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:34:33 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: All
Subject: bring from below
Message:
can anyone bring john's (pam's) 'thanks for the thanks' up from below. its worth reading and might get missed if the 'view all' is not activatated.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:42:17 (EST)
From: Posting for John McGregor
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Here it is
Message:
Thanks Jim for your response.

I'll try to answer your questions: (Maybe someone can tell me how to italicise questions to distinguish them from my answers...)

1-Do you know more about the cac stuff?

I've posted all I know. M would be behind it personally, as a matter of logic.

EV has been made aware for a few days now that the CAC sites will soon prove to be far more PR trouble than they are worth, and I am hopeful that they will shortly disappear. (Someone told me this has started - can't confirm that.)

2-Do you know more Pams who might speak out now?

Yes, I have been emailed by 2 or 3 PAMs, mini-PAMs and ex-PAMs since posting. I believe they are likely to come out in due course.

EV regards Jagdeo as its biggest PR minus, and I expect it will propel more PAMs and mere Earthlings out the dooor in due course. How could it not?

3. Do you have any concrete suggestions how the forum might be more accomodating to that process?

I'm going to post about this around post 6 (I just posted post 2). In a nutshell, I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people. Mel Bourne posted above that he came here for ages as a cult apologist: I took a long time to come around too. The ex who won me over to the Devil was very patient with me. When I made a stupid or morally bankrupt argument - as I did, often, and as most premies will do for a while - she demolished the argument - but left me intact, and unshattered, to focus on the process.

We exes can have complete faith in the power of our arguments. They will continue to win people over.

BTW, the personal criticisms which sometimes appear here serve to keep several defectors of my acquaintance from posting: they don't feel safe here. It would be good to make this place safe for everyone. The premies, trolls, et al obviously only come here because they have doubts. Other than the monitors, M has made it clear that they shouldn't be here.

I should add that I tend to be a little romantic about these things, and I am a very recent ex after all - my head is still spinning somewhat - so I don't have total faith in my judgement of this issue. But I can vouch for the fact that the emotional 'danger' of this place helps deter some very interesting people from posting.

3-In relation to the flood of exiting premies, do you have any suggestions what might enable us to help them?
I think this is a very important point....any ideas?

Yeah, it's hugely important. I'll post some of my ideas on this in post 6. At a guess, if it were possible to separate the forum's functions of allowing exes to process their stuff, and giving premies an alternative POV - maybe into two separate forums - that might help. More private, password-protected forums like Recent Exes can only be a good thing, IMO. Maybe one for fence-sitters, with a few non-threatening exes involved in it?

That's just off the top of my head. Rather than an idea from me, what this matter might reallly need is a debate here. I'm sure others can come up with better ideas than mine.

For those who haven't done it, or who can't remember it clearly, I cannot express how vulnerable one feels on leaving K - or in contemplating leaving K. I'll post a list of symptoms on post 6 from standard cult literature: but they are doosies, and post-traumatic stress disorder is extremely common amongst them. Many exiters really needs to be in a cocoon of some sort for a while. Even Maharaji understands that times of transition are fraught with great peril, which is why he gives the aspirants and K-takers such close attention. The same applies on the way out, with bells on.

'The crisis consists of precisely this: the old is dying, and the new cannot yet be born. In this strange interregnum, all manner of morbid symptoms appear.' (Gramsci, from memory)

4-Do you have any idea how m feels at this point, as you seem to indicate that the western empire is crumbling, and m is scratching his head about what to do....

Precisely none. I would imagine he is talking amongst advisors about new strategies for getting things happening again, and about what shape his post-EV mission might take. But that's just a guess. He is extremely resourceful and intelligent, and deeply convinced of his mission. He won't lie down and die for quite a while.

But staving off financial problems will be an impossibility, and I'd expect a serious curtailment of activities and/or a sale of some assets in 2002.

Best regards,

John

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:02:30 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: John McGregor
Subject: Wise comment about arguments / people
Message:
John, among other wise thoughts, you say:
'I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people.'

I can not agree with you more. We were all once deeply involved and must be compassionate to those still walking behind us. They will be needing support and not ridicule. I have zero investment in changing someone's belief system as long as it intends no harm (Cac et al). But having been there, it is my duty to make information available so others may draw their own conclusions and act accordingly.

Thanks for your words of reason, concern and inclusion.

Richard who is posting again since being listed on Halt On-Line Hate website

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:48:54 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: repost of John McGregor's
Subject: John Mc, you said...
Message:
''In a nutshell, I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people. Mel Bourne posted above that he came here for ages as a cult apologist: I took a long time to come around too. The ex who won me over to the Devil was very patient with me. When I made a stupid or morally bankrupt argument - as I did, often, and as most premies will do for a while - she demolished the argument - but left me intact, and unshattered, to focus on the process.''

I completely agree but how do you suggest we deal with those premies who are dishonest, malicious and disruptive? Most of the bad stuff that happens here is because of anonymous cacweasels. Certain cultweasels have so eroded our natural trust here because they have posted under multiple aliases and appeared to be sincere only to suddenly turn and attack later. Like you I prefer Churchill's approach to Chamberlain's when faced with evil.

Of course I'm itching with curiosity to know what name you posted under and who the ex was that was so patient with you.

You also wanted to know how to italicize. Use these little pointy brackets < and >. Put an I between them at the beginning of what you want to italicize and at the end put an / before the I inside those brackets. To make it bold use a B in place of the I. To underline use a U.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:01:25 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat, just be patient
Message:
Pat,

I have expressed my annoyance with premies in the past, but now, when arguing with premies, I imagine a larger audience, and talk to them instead.

Although my immediate protagonist may deserve my invective, the larger audience doesn't. And as it's only the internet, there's no point in getting uptight here:-)

John.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:19:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Well put JHB
Message:
What's missing around here is a way to handle the trolls and their malice. But the new exes have all been thrown into the deep end and coached on how to swim months after the fact.

I think it's condescending and just cockamanie to throw people into this lion pit with no support for the scorpions like cacweasels.

Sure, it's great if you've been here for over 1/2 a decade. But a few days, few weeks, few years?

There is nothing in place here to help new posters handle the abuse.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:09:56 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You're right, John
Message:
Actually this latest CAC attack broke quite a lot of tension in me and I don't feel quite so vulnerable. It may be seeing that what I am up against really isn't that scary. And thanks for the tip about talking to a wider audience. I have tried that and forgotten in the heat of the moment. I give you permission to remind me. ;)
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:10:44 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: John and Pat: demolishing arguments
Message:
John writes: I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people...When I made a stupid or morally bankrupt argument - as I did, often, and as most premies will do for a while - she demolished the argument - but left me intact, and unshattered, to focus on the process.

John, I agree with you completely on this. Over the past month or two I have posted on this very topic.

I can vouch for the fact that the emotional 'danger' of this place helps deter some very interesting people from posting

I can vouch for it as well. Since I have started occasionally posting on here, I have been in private conversation with several well-known premies, past and present, who have all told me that they would like to post, but will not because of the emotional attacks and abuse that happen here. In general, they are prepared to have their arguments attacked, but not themselves as people.

I am in this category as well; I would certainly post more if the environment were less hostile.

Pat writes: Most of the bad stuff that happens here is because of anonymous cacweasels.

Pat, I could not disagree with you more. Anyone with half a brain can see that the anonymous cacweasels are just pissing in the wind, and are not representative of what this site is all about. No, the real abuse comes from true exes, who probably left the cult so long ago that they no longer have any memory or understanding of the fragile state of recent exes, and who wade in with nastiness, sarcasm and outright hostility, when what is really called for is simply questioning and challenging in a civilised way.

-- Mike

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:43:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Oh no, not the 'abuse' flag again!
Message:
Come on, guys, let's get real about this. Take Mel Bourne, an excellent case in point. For literally years he,a cult apologist, has posted what he now admits were ridiculous -- his word, not mine -- statements. For literally years exes here have tried to reason with him asking him, among other things, to admit that his points were indeed ridiculous. Mel admits that he knew they were all along, he just wouldn't admit it. Well, guess what? We all knew that too!

So who's abusing whom? Huh?

Exes aren't robots indifferent to lies and evasion such as Mel used to post. We react like people. Plain old, simple, honest, people. There's nothing fancy about this. People who get lied to in the course of discussing issues that matter to them can only keep their cool so long and, as far as I'm concerned, that's just great.

Judges are, by training, dispostion and institutional convention, supposed to stay calm. Most usually do. However, there are points where even the most equanimious judge is going to lose it, even if just a little and even if only momentarily, if they're being jerked around. Using Mel as an example again, here's an intelligent guy who now admits that he was doing just that, subjecting us to his ridiculous intellectual contortions when he knew all along that's what he was doing. He deserved, as would anyone, scorn, expressions of disrespect and displeasure, the whole nine yards. Put succinctly, if someone say something ridiculous and they even know that's what they're doing, how could it ever be 'abusive' for them to be called on it? And if they deny it further, what then? It ain't gonna be pretty and why should it? They don't deserve pretty.

But then you've never experienced the other side of the fence, have you, Mike? You've never actually hashed it out with the likes of Mel or other cult liars and plumbed the limits of your own patience doing so. Try it sometime. You might get another perspective.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:27:43 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Re: John and Pat: demolishing arguments
Message:
Pat just doesn't think quickly. He NEVER stops to contemplate who he may be addressing and just where they may fit into the whole panorama.
Nor for that matter do any other old hands. They just attack.
And so many people ignore this place,and it's culture.
I have been abused, discredited and continually attacked for at least 3 years here, often without foundation. When I give as good as I get, I get labelled a monster.
Look at the posts from Deborah,from John T - hateful ,spiteful attacks.Hitting out with no comprehension of who they may be attacking.They also cannot accept anything outside of there limited methods of communication. It is quite a dangerous and uncaring enviroment.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:58:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What are you talking about
Message:
You have been a demon on bad days and a monster on good days.

Everybody knows that? NOBODY is confused. You are never ever nice, nor have you ever been . YUou say one thing here and go over to LG and say the opposite. You just called ABI a fascist lover the other day at LG.

You are just trying to manipulate, so get lost. Your gig is up.

Bye bye

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:27:29 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: How about this?
Message:
By the way CAT, do you know (by the browser) who the dude who originally posted it? He/she uses AOL so I guess he's in the States. I want to thank him for providing this evidence just when I needed it. Glad I saved it this time...a gem, ahem

Posted: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:47:16 (EST)
Original: Sun, Nov 04, 2001 at 18:22:27 (EST)
Posted by: Deborah is Recipient: Deborah
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; AOL 4.0; Mac_PPC

Deborah says here, 'This is not about hating premies, I don't hate premies.'
I suppose that would explain this quote, which was sent to a group of premies:
'You guys are not in control of yourselves. You don't even have
selves. You don't have brains. YOu don't have guts. You have no
confidence. You don't have patience. You OBVIOUSLY have NO Bliss.
You don't INNER PEACE. You don't have a Clue, period. You don't have ANYTHING.'

Deborah is tolerant of other ethnic persuasions: To Carlos...
'You come off very unsophisticated. Do you pack groceries for Safeway. Illegal alien? Perhaps just a busboy at local restaurant? Is that your YOB?'

Deborah plays well with the other exes. 'The exes don't get me inflamed, I don't get ruffled by personality differences. '
That would explain these verbatim quotes:
'I am sick of you pussies affriad to fight these Rawat rats. You're
all a bunch of dickless wimps. They ruined your lifes. Idiots! Am I
the only one strong enough to fight them?

FUCK OFF ALL OF YOU'

on another occasion, demonstrating her harmony with the domain of doubt, she said, rather poetically:
'Where the fuck do you come off with that attitude.
You can't control Jim, you can't control his behaviour. Oh you mean the behaviour of insulting you on a fuckin cyber cultbashing forum.

Fuck you shitheads, how fuckin selfish of your ego!!!!!!!
You compare Jim who STARTED THIS FORUM WITHOUT YOU AND YOUR PATHETIC GUILE-LESS PENIS-DEFLATED help. He did this without you, what fuckin part of that don't you understand. Did you guys get hold of some bad charnarnamrit? Get a clue. Where are you. come on...it's spelled:
E-X-(underscore)P-R-E-M-I-E.org. WHAT DOES THAT SPELL?'

Of course with Deb, it's not about hate. That would explain her message to the former webmaster of the ex-premies:
'Has your penis grown back! YOU had no right (well, actually you did have a right and a very little penis shrinking incentive) to send that
email condemming one of our own while the fuckin Glasser dickless wannabe attorney hides behind his rimmend glasses holding his dick in his hand while getting you to turn the house onto itself.'

Nah, Deb doesn't hate anyone other than, 'I hate MAHA'
Of course, that's not based on anything that actually happened between her and Maharaji or anything he said to her. Of course not. She'll tell you her experiences were good and lots of fun. She read Dettmers and that was it for her. Well, we all know how much Michael Dettmers has inspired and nourished us over the years and we remember how anxiously we awaited for his mellifluous words of wisdom. Anyone that crucial in our lives must be worth throwing lots of other stuff out for. Never mind that he totally changed his tune. He did it with a calm, factual voice (both times) and that must mean something. You can bet that he's telling you the whole story, too!

Deborah chose wisely. And she hates no one. Oh, except.......

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:56:49 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Very funny
Message:
I guess you think you are still an innocent person. Ha ha ha ha ha

You're a fool and you and your squirrely allies are a joke Roupell. Nobody will ever believe a word you say because you based your wohole career here lying in every single post. Go to LG where some of your croonies will be impressed with your abusively witty revisions.

Your revision and insistence that you were abused is hilarious.

You must be really really desperate. Why don't you just leave?

You clearly have no purpose here. You're happy w/Rawat. NOBODY at all wants to convert you. Every woman is sick and bloody tired of your endless mysogony. Everybody here already knows your game. SCRAM

Think anybody gives your posts the time of day, NO. You can go now.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:13:22 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: CW, how many times have I tried being nice?
Message:
And then you have turned on me and played mind-games with me and told me lies. I would much prefer to be liked than hated and don't go out of my way to hurt you. If you could just be straight and honest for once I would extend my hand in friendship. You know that very well.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:52:31 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CW, how many times have I tried being nice?
Message:
I have no idea of what you are talking about Pat. I have no personal issue with you. I think you jump in WAY too quick but apart from that you strike me as your average Fire sign.
I'm not here to bounce you. I'm watching the flow. When I spot a turd , I fish it out.These Beamers are a bugger to sit in . Ly anttenae keep squashing against the roof!
I'm quite amused by your latest PAM.Wait until I come out.I mean what a YOKE!!!
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:42:27 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: CW, you're such a supercillious nerd
Message:
I can't enjoy your obviously quick wit because you're such a childishly smirking little twerp. If you ever decide to become a human being again one day, I'll be the first to welcome you back down to earth but, until then, I can't take you seriously. Sorry.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:41:02 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CW, you're such a supercillious nerd
Message:
Oh I'm just shamed Pat.God the fucking REJECTION slip from big Pat. I am mortified! You are a self important little fellow are you not Pat.
Can I live without your patronage? Will you finally crack through my hard beetle like exterior.
Fuck me...What a total prima donna (Cheap LA via Sud Afrika version)
Who do you think you are Pat?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:40:16 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CW, you're such a supercillious nerd
Message:
Oh I'm just shamed Pat.God the fucking REJECTION slip from big Pat. Iam nortified. You are a self important little fellow are you not Pat.
Can I live without your patronage . Will you finally crack through my hard beetle like exterior.
Fuck me...What a total prima donna (Cheap LA via Sud Afrika version)
Who do you think you are Pat?
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:05:32 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Absolute bollocks Pat
Message:
Cat has his own story, but I'd wager he'd never ever be so silly to take your 'hand of friendship' in his own. Wanna know why?

Three times you have come over to LG and done the soft shoe shuffle with me and three times you have waited until I have opened up to you and said something you can use against me (or just to stir up the F7 rabids). You have run gleefully back here like an excited schoolboy saying LOOK!! LOOK!! Three times this charade been watched by an appreciative audience (wonder why innocent pwk's don't come here anymore?)

Your (totally transparent) modus operandi is precisely what you confer onto us - You befreind and then you betray. Luckily for us there are NO posts that will indicate to the audience that we have behaved this way. NONE. On the other hand I have ample evidence of your treachery, betrayal and 'humorous' apologies.

As CW says, when we whack a snake (and yes there's some real nasties here) we're suddenly the demons from hell. Fortunately, feedback I get on a regular basis indicates the viewers are a little more perceptive than your emotionally troubled navel gazing allows you to be.

You claim to have a supportive readership?
Guess what? So do we. And one of the things that has undermined this forum the most is the insantiy visited upon several of us pwk posters. By taking the hits, we have allowed the entire credibility of the place to self implode.

JHB has finally realised what we have known all along Patrick..

TALK TO THE REAL AUDIENCE NOT THE JERK ON THE OTHER COMPUTER

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:58:03 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: David Roupell, talk to McGregor and McDonald
Message:
Don't talk to me please. You can pass messages to me from them if you want since you know them so well.

Can you honestly believe that your self-revisionism is going to work? (Well, says Cerise to SC: ''It worked for Maharaji. Why shouldn't it work for me?) Actually no revisionism, lies, deceit or other mind-fucking games ever works for too long. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc.....

Do you honestly think people here are going to forget and forgive what mind-games you have played here with the utmost unethical and cynical attitude? You must think we like to be shafted without vaseline and enjoy being conned and treated disrespectfully and sadistically. I guess you do because that's what you're used to getting from your massa. Down boy! Woof, daddy!

If there were one little peep of sincerity in you I would give you another chance but you are not demonstrating any. Come clean about all your former aliases over the past four years and apologise for your mind-fucking games and you will be accepted by all this time not just by an old softie like me.

Till then - hasta la vista, baby.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 23:01:06 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I'm calling it the PatDeb shuffle!
Message:
As soon as you pop the nail right on the tooter with these flungues

OUT COMES THE famiLIAR BILE!

'Come clean about all your former aliases over the past four years and apologise for your mind-fucking games and you will be accepted by all this time.'

Pat, to be accepted by ALL here would be close to my worst nightmare.

anyway, how could I possibly come clean about 42 different characters, histories, backgrounds, sexual preferences, abuse towards rabids, favorite darshan stories, spiritual height reached, attitudes towards exes, best jokes, vintage of Chateau Guiraud and noddy toothpaste preferences?
My family demands privacy!

And have you ANY idea how much (of my) time it takes to record and mix a 15 minute 4 part sonata on classical guitar?

No, I didn't think so :)

Oh, and if you think John and Michael are going to step down into the gutter to join you and Ms Thorn, you're wrong. With them you gotta think 'Patrick Wilson'

...way out of your social league and class.

Sorry Pats, but them's the generic breaks!

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:30:48 (EST)
From: Cult harassment patrol
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: SC is David Roupell
Message:
a fanatical cultist whose mental health is seriously in question.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:38:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Cat, you protest too much
Message:
Cat,

For the bulk of the time I have been reading here, you have never said anything substantive. Recently you have occasionally said something, as in your post here, but as far as attempting serious discussion, I have no evidence you know how to.

If you wish to prove me wrong, how about giving us your comments on John's revelation about Maharaji not reading personal mail to him, or even getting his staff to read it?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 03:05:40 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Cat, you protest too much
Message:
Frankly John is guessing. He is either repeating something he thinks he was told or he is misinterpreting the humour of an ole US buddy he quoted.
John hasn't been close enough for the last decade to know. I can assure you the mail does get through.And I do know.
I suppose when M quotes a letter or card that it's just a random choice? Think about it. At at least 5 of the recent events I have been to I have heard him discussing letters from P's.
John got his fingers burnt when he and his buddies tried to turf his namesake female. Instead of thinking clearly as an individual and buggering off to make a better life for himself , he got caught up in bush politics. And looks like he is still there. Pity really . A nice guy with a wicked sense of humour.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:12:33 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: CW, say that to McGregor's face
Message:
Why are you posting this here? Say it directly to McGregor. You really are sneaky aren't you? You'd love McGregor to shut up and go away wouldn't you?

You said: ''John (McGregor) got his fingers burnt when he and his buddies tried to turf his namesake female. Instead of thinking clearly as an individual and buggering off to make a better life for himself, he got caught up in bush politics.''

John deserves an opportunity to answer that. Why don't you say that to his face instead of saying it like some old toothless backyard fence gossiping old hag whispering evil rumors behind peoples' backs?

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:17:39 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: whispering evil rumors behind peoples' backs?
Message:
Fuck, you've got a nerve trying to pin that little habit on someone else.

IT'S THE PAT CONLON SPECIALITY!

served with a touch of spite and naf agy humour

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:27:37 (EST)
From: Cult harassment patrol
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: SC is David Roupell
Message:
a member of a cult of insane people who try to kill others with hammers.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:56:47 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Cult harassment patrol
Subject: Peter Stanton Please NOTE
Message:
thank you
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:38:56 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Cult harassment patrol
Subject: PETER STANTON PLEASE NOTE
Message:
thank you
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 01:00:13 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: GO MEDITATE, DAVID ROUPELL
Message:
You are in a snit, lad, and very boring. And please don't come back. Don't you know when you are not wanted? You are a cult apologist and your presence here is deterring newly exited members of the cult from posting. Your presence here is intimidating to those who have not realized that you are a joke.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:45:15 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CW, say that to McGregor's face
Message:
I'll ring him up you pathetic empty shell of a man. Well, let's see if he does. Christ you are a patronising prick. What?Are you now his best fucking buddy protector. Fuck off Conlon, you're a legend in your own lunchbox.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 05:44:57 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CW, say that to McGregor's face
Message:
I ring him up you pathetic empty shell of a man. Well, let's see if he does. Christ you are a patronising prick. What?Are you now his best fucking buddy protector. Fuck off Conlon, you're a legend in your own lunchbox.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:20:16 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: More can be done in that regard
Message:
As a recent exe, I know fresh from experience the fragile and emotional state of mind that accompanies one through this process of getting a grip on the reality of what has really been going on with the Cult and M for many years and getting out.

I was assaulted and jousted about for my cult apologist views, and I was almost turned tail and ran back to the cover of the cult rather than be ridiculed and harrassed but I didn,t. I managed to stay around
and fight for my sanity as well as wage the inner war the battle the forces on the forum. I fortunately have a thick skin and I am glad that I did stick around, but I can understand those who don't, given the cult mentality.

It is a tall order to fill finding the right voice for each newcomer in light of the deep programming that goes with the premie indoctrination and identity. Some people can take getting hit between the eyes, some can't.

It is a tough question to state how this site should be, because there really is not one formula that fits all. I do not think that a big dose of sweetness and understanding is the prescription by itself ethier.

Maybe a little more off site work would be helpful, I know that I have engaged several posters here through personal email communications and that has been good.

Like Mike indicates in his post above, he has been in private conversation with several well-known premies and has begun a dialogue in reference to this site. That is how I heard about this place, another person going through the process clued me onto it.

I have been testy at times, and rude, but that is just real life, real emotions that require a real outlet for real issue related to the cult and M that I have not found any other place besides here on F7 to vent.

Mostly, I strive to be honest, articulate, civil and personally insightful in my dealings with others and my own personal concerns related to 29 years in a cult following an imposter.

I would love to see more interaction with newcomers, and I would like the concenus to be that E7 is the place to start. When I mention the site to others, it seems that the forums reputation precedes it along the same lines about as inviting as a trip to the dentist without novacaine.

There are many people who could be reached and helped if they want it, I have noticed a more accessable tone extended to the sincere premies who are willing to get off it and have a serious look instead of argue through their limitations or just give satsang and those whose sole purpose here is to provoke anger.

I predict that things will accelerate soon out here given John's inside assessment of the impending soul rush for the exits.

I hope that I can help a few find their way out

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:19:34 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: PS John and Mike
Message:
Question John Mc and Mike F

How would you personally deal with this?

A few months ago a teenage girl started posting on the forum. She was charming and cheeky and flattered all the right people and told us that her parents had K for many years and she was thinking of getting K because she really loved M whenever she saw him BUT she said she had doubts because the premies were such a creepy cult.

Everyone here welcomed her and talked to her like a long-lost sister and we joked and flirted and opened up our hearts to her. Then it became increasingly clear that she was telling quite a few porkies. Some of us challenged her and she turned around and snarled like the Tasmanian Devil and attack Abi by saying that she didn't give a fuck about Jagdeo raping a child and couldn't care less if Abi had been raped by a herd of wild elephants.

When that persona was discredited this person then took on a new alias and a new persona, also a sweet vulnerable female, equally as charming and sweet and anti-cult but pro-M. Finally we found out that this person is a 50 year old male cynical premie pathological liar.

Now with your nice approach to premies, how would you have dealt with this, John and Mike?

PS John, it was this incident that made me so suspicious of anonymous premie posters. I'm just sorry I took it out on you.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:36:48 (EST)
From: Adrianna Kavortz
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: This man is telling a porkie
Message:
I know cerise and she never said what the above poster has accused her of. It is a scurrilous lie that this poster is well known for and as his CAC website profile ably attests to.

This is the sort of thing that seriously undermines the credibilty of this forum.

Hate and desperation always comes before facts, it's Not good enough.

Incidently, Cerise was NOT the beginning of Pat Conlon's obsessive suspicion followed by grovelling habits. The PS is a little suck up technique to JM that he uses with all celebrated new exes who fill his bowl with delicious goodies to munch on. John, you'd better keep up the rations, or this bugger will turn on you like a wild shrew.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:52:05 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Adrianna Kavortz
Subject: This woman is a man in drag
Message:
By the name of David Roupell. You wouldn't know what truth is if it slapped you in the face like a wet fish. Maybe you aren't unethical but just a childish fantasist. Whatever it is - I lost patience with your mind-games.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:32:09 (EST)
From: AK
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Still a porkie Patsy
Message:
I hope you new crusade against evil and injustice brings you the happiness and fulfilment you so richly deserve....
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:37:55 (EST)
From: Cult harassment patrol
Email: None
To: AK
Subject: AK is David Roupell [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:17:53 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: PS John and Mike
Message:
Hi Pat
I would just stick to the facts as I see them and mix in a bit of humour and courtesy if possible. Sometimes it pays to be consistent.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:29:39 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: But, you are always sweet, Tim
Message:
The only excuse that I can offer for my lashing out at the cacweasels is that I am newly exited and still feeling defensive. But I am mellowing out. ;)
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:08:01 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Re: Mike/civility
Message:
Well said Mike.
I have many times alluded to the childish abuse that occurs here. Set against that is the fact that this is a free for all, unlike attitudes in the cult, and hence it is a litle reflection of the 'Real World' which we as premies distanced ourselves from at times.
So maybe we just need to propogate, lovely word, the fact that this can be the first port of call for those who are faltering on the Divine Path. I mean that we need to remind ourselves in a regular way that this is a useful service as well as being a fun forum full of the rough and tumble.
I must say that I forget how traumatic it can be for a recent deserter, it was 20 years ago for me.
Thanks for your post and Best Wishes
Tim
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:40:45 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Mike, I was just thinking about that
Message:
After I did the post to John, I thought: ''Yes, but for us recent exes, there really is a very scary time straight after exiting the cult. How do we deal with that?''

I got sick shortly after starting to post here. You did too. It is a very intense time. But most of my pain was subjective. Yes I was not treated with kid gloves but when I look back on my debut most of my suffering was caused by fear of the cacweasels who attacked me here and by email and I was also terrified of retaliation by the cult.

You also recently said as much when you told Jim that you realized that his challenges to your first posts were not nearly as harsh as you thought at the time and that it was your vulnerability that exacerbated the pain. I know that the impression I formed of the forum before I had fully exited was every negative.

It really is a difficult problem. John (and before him many others) have suggested a flame-free forum for new exes. RE is there for that and I would also suggest that new exes start by corresponding with those exes they trust by email and be led gently into posting on the forum. Even of we made rules of behaviour here they would be impossible to enforce for many reasons.

But I agree we do need to put in place some sort of easy landing pad for new exes. Perhaps it has to be done individually since exes aren't very ''synchronized.'' Donner and Mickey and Disculta all offered their personal services in helping people to exit.

I hope that your friends will correspond with you and perhaps put their toes in the water with your help. I try always to remember to put my email so that people who have known me in the past can contact me and they have. Many are still afraid to post here but not so much out of fear of exes as I have helped them to understand the dynamics of the forum but they are afraid of cult retaliation and having there names and addresses posted by CAC.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:29:44 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: True, but hostility is in the eye of the beholder
Message:
Mike,

I agree that I would like this environment to be as conducive as possible for people to say what they like and feel comfortable doing so. But I think there is one big problem there and maybe this is something we need to all be more aware of, and I think it's this:

To a premie, to a person who is in a cult, the cult beliefs are so ingrained, so programmed, and so 'personal,' that there is very little division between attacking the 'beliefs' and attacking the 'person' from THEIR perspective. So, attacking the 'arguments' is seen as attacking 'them' and I don't know how you deal with that.

And I am someone who has expended considerable effort to go after the 'arguments.' Although I admit to using sarcasm, I think that's often the best way to deal with a lot of the rubbish. I think it's very important to carefully respond to the arguments, although one often gets very little feedback (except from ex-premies) that it has any effect whatsoever on premies.

So, we could get into a position that in making this place so comfortable for 'questioning' people that the actual beliefs wouldn't even get questioned. Does that make sense?

See, from my perspective, Mike, I think you have really been handled with kid gloves around here. I haven't read everything, but I think people have treated you with a lot of respect. I know I have. Have you really been treated badly, accounting for the fact that everyone has different styles and dozens of ex-premies are around here at any given time?

Maybe John's idea about multiple forums might be a good idea, although it's very hard to control. Also, keep in mind, that often when people leave, for a period after that, they can be quite angry and resentful of those 'beliefs' which they now consider irrational and damaging. For them, it's very hard to be comforting and warm to people they see espousing those very beliefs. This place is for them, too.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm sure one of them is for those of us who left the cult a long time ago and are now more detached from the emotional side of it, to remind ourselves what we felt like when we first left, how vulnerable, emotional, betrayed and fragile we felt.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks, Mike,

Joe

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:41:13 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: True, but hostility is in the eye of the beholder
Message:
So, we could get into a position that in making this place so comfortable for 'questioning' people that the actual beliefs wouldn't even get questioned. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense, but the important word there is 'could'. We 'could' get into the position that you describe; on the other hand, we also 'could' get into a position where beliefs are questioned and still the place is comfortable.

See, from my perspective, Mike, I think you have really been handled with kid gloves around here. I haven't read everything, but I think people have treated you with a lot of respect. I know I have. Have you really been treated badly, accounting for the fact that everyone has different styles and dozens of ex-premies are around here at any given time?

I think my point is that, no, I have not been treated badly, but when I first posted here I think that I was. But I also think that now it does not matter, and I want to move on.

To a premie, to a person who is in a cult, the cult beliefs are so ingrained, so programmed, and so 'personal,' that there is very little division between attacking the 'beliefs' and attacking the 'person' from THEIR perspective. So, attacking the 'arguments' is seen as attacking 'them'

I agree that your point may account for much of my feeling, but not , I think, all of it. In other words, I accept that my cult beliefs were ingrained (still are) and that it is a fine line between attacking me and attacking my beliefs. However, just because the line may be fine, does not mean it does not exist - and I think it would very constructive if it were recognised.

I don't really want to get into a long involved thread over this, like I did with Jim a week or two ago. I think that as an issue it is beginning to vanish. The good quality posts from yourself, John, Pat and numerous others, that focus on the arguments and ideas, and are well written, are upping the whole quality of this Forum. The contrast with the negative posts are thus very obvious, and enable anyone to focus on the positive of this Forum, and ignore the negative, rather like you can read a book and ignore any dirt that may be on the page.

I feel greatly encouraged by this, and as I say, I think this is ceasing to be a real issue, even though I have been responsible as much as anyone for creating an issue out of it !!

-- Mike

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:54:17 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: Thanks, Mike F
Message:
The forum has changed a lot since I first exited 10 months ago. One day I'll try to recall the roller-coaster ride these past ten months have been. The more calm and polite voices there are the better it will get. I think the best thing you can do to make it a civilized place is to continue to contribute with your quiet respectful voice.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:59:27 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hey dont start changing Pat. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:30:57 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: You too, bill-nt :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:00:42 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I second that emotion Pat
Message:
We both started heavy duty processing out of the cult around the same time. I bore witness to this episode in your life via the forum as you listened and coached me through my personal drama dealing with the effects of the last 29 years of cult indoctrination.

What we have accomplished in exiting is truly a miracle, and I doubt that I could have done it with out the tool,(the internet), the medium (the forum) and the method ( sharing our thoughts and experiences honestly and openly).

Honesty is the most civilized thing we can contribute here. Even though the manner and emotional overtones through which I share my truths will sometimes fluctate through my individual conditions of the day it's the honesty that I abide and am committed to.

Every once in a while honesty shines through as I make a more progress shedding the cult skin. Getting out was the easy part on the ourside of it, clearing out this residual inside garbage requires more work, and I use this forum as one of the ways to get the job done.

I have learned to look for the message amongst the mess, and exiting the cult is a very messy business. Hopefully others can see through personal styles and agenda's and greet the truth no matter who it is sharing it. This is a personal responsibility assumed by anyone who is serious about taking back control of their lives.

I have come to this realization recently and it is, I am responsible to tell the truth about my experience, But I am not responsible for what people think of it. Good or bad

I think the best thing you can do to make it a civilized place is to continue to contribute with your quiet respectful voice.

I concur, the best way to create change is to validate it by becoming that change oneself..

I do owe you a tribute in helping me work through this thing Pat, you made it so much easier for me to walk away with your brilliant insights,information and the calm respectful, compassionate tone you took dealing with me both on site and by private email communication.

There were many louder voices guiding me but yours reached me the best. To me you have been a good example of the quiet respectful, and civilized tone, and humorous at times too.

I just wanted to say thanks, the forum does work, it serves a valuable purpose in this day and time and you have done well contributing yourself so wholeheartedly to purpose.

There are many more coming forward all of the time now, It is a great time to be an ex-premie

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:48:21 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Thanks, Richard, maybe it was serendipity
Message:
We helped each other mutually. And I agree with every word you said but then I usually do.;)
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:48:53 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I think you mean Brian, Pat
Message:
Not going around the bend are you old man?

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:19:48 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Yes, I mean Brian, Richard
Message:
You said: ''Not going around the bend are you old man?''

Don't rub it in too much. I have to make notes to myself but most of us AARP folks do. Sorry, Brian.

Actually your post was a shock. I have no idea how I made that mistake. Maybe it was serendipitous because you also loom large in my mind when I think of my first days of exiting and the fun we all had coming out and posting our pics and being kind and warm and funny with each other. I hope the CACweasels didn't ruin all that.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:57:51 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: I agree, and thanks.
Message:
Thanks Mike, that makes a lot of sense. And I hope you are right that the tone has changed.

Mike, it would really be great for you to write an analysis of where you are in all of this. Maybe take a particular issue and deconstruct it and let others comment. I think you write well, and it could be a benefit to everyone.

I also have noted a change around here in the past few months. I'm not sure of the reason, but I know for me, the events of Sept. 11 in the US caused me to consider a lot of things, like what is really important, and how exposed and fragile we all are, just in living.

I think those events made me both somewhat more serious and perhaps more forgiving. At least I hope so.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:43:05 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The post below to Marianne not you Joe, FA?
Message:
Very strange, I hadn't even read your post yet the reply came under yours.

But anyway while I'm here, don't know what you're on recently but the quality of writing in your posts has been very high.

Appreciated.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:37:38 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I think there is another side to it as well
Message:
Marianne,

For a long time when here it felt a very vulnerable spot, not a lot of people, plenty of premie trolls, with the knowledge that it was bound to get nasty when gm had to start acknowledging this site/forum.

Personally I feel it's past it's critical mass stage, loads more people post now, a lot more of the truth about gm is out of the bag, and the vicious attacks of cac etc prove how strong the cult thinking is.

Defending this place is no longer needed at the same scale.

Hope things are ok your end, and this recent net malarkey is not causing you personally too much grief.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:15:36 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Joe
Subject: The stakes have changed around here for me
Message:
Mike: I join in Joe's comments. And even though I left in 1976, believe me, I remember what it was like to get out of DLM. I went through a lot of therapy to straighten my head back out.

I am a bit testy here Mike, for a couple of reasons. I've been posting here for about 2-1/2 years. I don't really fight with the premies. I've had some nasty exchanges with cat, Bjorn, and a few other imbeciles. But I generally do not fight with the premies who come here to try and have some sort of dialogue. My tone is typically supportive, compassionate, and understanding. The tone of most of the exes generally is. Now these long time PAMs want me to treat them with emotional kid gloves. Well guess where my compassion got me with these people? Not to mention the fact that I have been out of the stupid cult for so many years... It got my name and a bunch of false and libelous information placed on the internet. Email has now been sent to lawyers in San Francisco who are colleagues of mine accusing me of criminal activity. This is libelous and civilly actionable.

Look, this is just the same kind of stuff that the people around Jim Jones resorted to when Peoples Temple was falling apart. No one else has been subjected to this vicious attack -- only me. I am the only woman who was listed on the CAC sites. And I'll tell you that the people I suspect are behind it are people right around Maharaji. Why should I be so kind and understanding when I have been subjected to this kind of civil assault?

I am furious with these people. The longer they stay in, the longer they remain silent and stand on the sidelines, the longer they allow this type of activity to continue unabated. And I'll tell you, this is just their starting point. They picked on a woman. They picked on someone who has been out for a long time and was only a peon in the organization. Why? Ask yourselves that.

So I am in no mood to pity the poor, scared fence sitting premie. Fence sitting now means that you condone what was done to me, what was done to Abi, and what will be done in the future to other exes who have the temerity to speak the truth.

I don't have much sympathy for these people anymore, or their little hurt feelings. By their silence, THEY are hurting me -- someone who has extended her hand and deeds to assist many, many people around here in ways that are never publicly discussed. That's the way cult members repay good deeds and good people -- they try to destroy them. And that is what they are trying to do to me. I intend to protect myself.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:21:07 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne
Message:
Marianne, I can understand how you feel. Especially for someone like you. You are one of the most moral, socially responsible, caring people I know. Perhaps it's the great people like you who are most vulnerable to scumbags like the mental defective who sent emails accusing you of things you didn't do.

Why anyone would do that is beyond me. I think it's mental illness.

Take care, Marianne. You/we will prevail, I am sure of that.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:04:34 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Your post
Message:
Marianne, I think you have every right to be testy, as you put it. I think the attacks on you personally and professionally are disgusting, and deserve all the retaliation that the law and decency allow.

My post was not suggesting you be civil to the scumbags who attack you. It was only suggesting that one be civil to premies who are currently struggling to become ex-premies.

I think there needs to be a distinction between current premies who attack prominent exe's such as yourself, and premies who are
attempting to be no longer current - that is all.

You have my complete support in your attempt to defend yourself, and I agree there should be no mercy (figuratively) for those who attack you.

Good luck.

-- Mike

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:31:42 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: The stakes have changed around here for me
Message:
Dear Marianne,

I think it is awful. You have never been anything other than responsible and concerned for the well being of the people still stuck in that ugly little cult, and those who know about and yet hide the behaviour of Mr Rawat are playing their stupid game at your expense, it is totally unreasonable and unnacceptable.

I am personally disgusted that you have been attacked in this manner, I am hoping you will be able to fling that mud right back where it belongs.

Best regards, Lesley

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:21:43 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: The stakes have changed around here for me
Message:
Marianne,

Firstly, thank you for your phone call the other night. Good to hear from you.

Regarding the personal attack, I'm not sure you're right that it's because you're a woman. I think it's because you're a lawyer and hence open to attack through your professional status. Jim has been attacked similarly. I think Maharaji/EV is afraid of legal action and is trying to discredit potential adversaries.

All the best,

John.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:49:16 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Precisely, Joe
Message:
Well said, Joe. One day I'll tell you just how much you intimidated me at first. I thought you were cold and cruel until I got to know you better and saw how loving you really are.

Perhaps Mike Finch and John could start a forum run with this problem in mind. I'm sure John Brauns would be happy to give a prominent link on EPO.

But, yes, the pain was often subjective. In fact I was just thinking how much cult-think I had in me even after many months of posting here and the fight I had with you feeling that you were coercing me. That was all in my own mind.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:23:33 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: All
Subject: Practicing Knowledge?
Message:
I no longer practice, I've got the hang of it now.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:54:59 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Breathing on your own now Tim? Wow!
Message:
that is quite an accomplisment, going around inhaling and exhaling , tell me do you breathe more on purpose now that you have it down or is it something that just quite naturally occurs like it does for an infidel like me.

Brian the Iron Lung

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:19:15 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: Breathing on your own now Tim? Wow!
Message:
It's easy.
Just a wing (and no prayer)

Tim, who stopped puffing and blowing and occasionally hyperventilating years ago.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:33:22 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Knowledge? Why should I have to practice...
Message:
....being a natural human being? Doesn't that come er naturally? If there is a god and the only way to find it is to have a greedy Hindu conman show you, then this creation is a sadistic joke and I for one don't think it is. Premies are not practicing knowledge. They are practicing ignorance.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:16:23 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Nice one Pat. nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:23:08 (EST)
From: **** again
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Knowledge? Why should I have to practice...
Message:
What you do when you don't practice The K.?
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:15:19 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: **** again
Subject: RE : When you don't
Message:
Practice makes perfect.
When you are no longer practicing you are doing it.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:24:54 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: perfection! Now thats a concept
Message:
That you don't hear much about anymore. Hey wasn't that M's original deal, perfection, via the perfect master. I've noticed that he hasn't billed himself as the perfect master for quite some time.

He just goes around calling himself the master now, even he seems knows the limits of the average mentality. Plus the fact that there is too much inside info out on him today for him to pull off the perfect bit

The age of information has perfectly caught up with him and is shining light on the age of kaliuga

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:15:31 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Enough is Enough With These Trolls!
Message:
I have had just about enough of the rambling, nonsensical, idiotic, and yes, abusive talk from CW, SC, and all variations of their characters.

This is blantant misogyny, and it's getting more pornographic in nature as time goes on. And it's not only directed toward the women here. These trolls have nothing to say so they verbally abuse.
Can these people please be blocked or warned or something? It's getting so bad, I know I find it difficult to resist responding, but it's always fruitless and initiates more abuse.

Opinions, please.....
Cynthia, waiting for a shitpie in the face...

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:30:07 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: BAN the TROLLS GERRY
Message:
Their posts are getting more vicious all the time. I don't want to have to come here and swear. I don't like being upset yet at the same time it is difficult not to defend myself or the other posters (especially women) from their shit.

Howcome Silvia gets banned from LG and Beavis and Butthead stay here.

Doesn't make sense.

They have their own crib to play in. Problem is, they know they are just bullshitting to try and debunk what is said here. So, why should they come to debunk. Their ugly posts get in the way.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:37:40 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: It's no use
Message:
I've banned these same trolls over and over and they always get around the block.

If anyone has a suggestion as to how to proceed from here, let me know.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:44:49 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: It's no use
Message:
Hi Gerry,

If you have blocked them and they keep coming back then perhaps just ignoring them is the way to go. It's so tiring, though, seeing their names under my name and ya open up the post and it's demeaning and disgusting.

Hmmm...just like Maharaji, oh well, duh I guess...

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:27:18 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I offered to delete them, Gerry
Message:
Treat known mischief makers as spammers and delete them. Obviously we can't be so vigilnat as to succeed all the time but, if you give the nod, I'll try. They really do lower the tone of the new kinder gentler forum. ;)

But I still think that they may be doing service in showing how ugly cult fanatics can be. The trick is not to react.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:40:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, let them be
Message:
The trolls here perform a useful service by showing rational readers how irrational premies are.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:20:53 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: What about the fact that...
Message:
many people wouldn't want to post because of having to encounter some of that sick energy.

And what about the comfort of the women who support this forum?

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:10:14 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Clear thinking?
Message:
That is hysterical. In the true sense of the word. Pornographic?????
Calm down and dont assume so much sister.The person answering you below me has been closer to 'pornographic' than anybody on this site.
Have a look at what has really been said
PS: SC has gone. I'm here all exposed and alone.(Why are people so unkind?Apologies Kamahl...)
And I have NOT posted under another alias for over 6 months .
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:18:00 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What?
Message:
Comon Cat...

You know the Saucy Crumpet is ALWAYS with you!

SC leaves - and then drops in for a quick glance on the way to work - only to find some silly smuck has posted yet another abusive tirade behind my back. Don't you just hate that?

One thing is balatantly obvious. They NEED US a lot more than we need them.

If they would just
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT ME
I would stay away.

But no, they can't just leave us happy chappies to get on with our joyful and fruit filled lives.
BTW: Nectarines and Mangoes are in full swing right now, get into'em!

And I HAVE posted under another alias, not half an hour ago.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:29:56 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Hey Cat.
Message:
How often are you briefed about what to say and what not to say on the forum?

What do you know about the whereabouts of the Captain's paedophile pal?

anth just wondering.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:04:26 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hey Cat.
Message:
Only once by the invetigating officer at the Federal Poice Office. The Victorian Police officer advised me that your course of action was very foolish. She stated that she thought you were not interested in conviction.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:22:30 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: Hey Cat.
Message:
Only once by the invetigating officer at the Federal Poice Office. The Victorian Police officer advised me that your course of action was very foolish. She stated that she thought you were not interested in conviction.


---

What course of action was that Cat?

Writing to Glen about it, writing to EV about it, or reporting it to the Police?

Anth very interested in a conviction.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:42:46 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hey Cat.
Message:
No Victim Statement.No Investigation. Dont lie about this Anth. You may have reported the matters, but you know damn well there is no pending Police prosecution.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:01:08 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Answer the questions Fuckwit. (nt)
Message:
duuuuh.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:33:50 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: If that's what everyone wants and Gerry agrees...
Message:
.....I am willing to give some time to deleting those posts which get through in spite of blocking the trolls. I have been sickened by some of the stuff directed at the women here lately.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:40:09 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Yes, good idea
Message:
There's no need for them to be here at all. To NOT ban them is morally wrong. It sends very mixed messages. Why? Because they're dishonest enough NOT to stay away. What does that say about them?

Yes, it's worth taking the time to delete their posts or imitations.

I want to see this forum be full of good posts. Their purpose is to come here and stir up trouble.

Did Cacweasel ever come clean. NO. It tried to ride on the coattails of SC after you accepted an apology. He never said who he was, and apologize to everyone and ask if he could start with a clean slate.

Never. So what the hell is this 'I've been abused for years shit?'

Weird weird game.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:41:16 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: one of the issues
Message:
that bothered me from the past was a statement that the forum was not for exes but for premies to be able to read and see other viewpoints.
Sorry to bring it up but I think it's an important point.
From experience, I do agree premies who are doubting the cult benefit greatly from the EPO pages if they are wanting to leave and have no one to talk to the forum can help as well.
I think it's obvious when someone is posting for those reasons vs. posting just to upset things.
I see the ex premie forum as a place for exes too. We have a lot to discuss and for some, a lot to work through. NO EX should have to come here with that pit in the stomach or shitpile in the face feeling Deb and Cynthia describe.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thanks Pat and Selene...
Message:
Hi,

Catweasal and SC, et al, don't come here to discuss they come to abuse and play games. It's not hard for me to come here. I'm not afraid of those two nor CAC. My identity's been out for quite some time. My outrage over the recent CAC sites supercedes these inadequate humans.

However, the feeling I do get when I post something and get a nasty back,(lately quite nasty) is to answer it because so often these remarks are so crude.

Watching these misogynist creeps make fools of themselves can be entertaining, I'll be the first to admit. Yet so much time and space is wasted by responding and playing. It's not fun playing with these multiple personality trolls--who btw, don't do a very good job of it.())())()) They just go for the jugular, for women way below the belt.

I don't want to dictate blocking anyone here. I just want folks to know that our Ex-Premie Forum deserves to have an atmosphere of discussion, fun, arguments between us if we so desire, and lack of abuse. Sorry for the abuse word, couldn't think up another one.

Later,
Love,
Cynthia, chopping wood, not carrying water....

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:05:40 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: As Jim has pointed out many times
Message:
It is the Cacweasel cult apologists who cause most of the nastiness here. Till now I have thought that even the weasels may eventually come around and realize just how very silly and anti-social they are and that that may lead them to examine their twisted thinking. But every time that I have offered my hand in friendship to a weasel it has been bitten. So, now my thinking on anonymouse premies who are hostile or deceitful is to block them. I just wish that they could continue to read but not post because there may be hope for them yet.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:53:50 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Why do Sicko Cacweasels post here and...
Message:
....and make sites like CAC?

Sicko Cultweasels are acting from very selfish motives. They can be as phony and fake and deceitful as they wish because their real audience is the EV honchos and Rev Rawat. They are giving their cult pals a good laugh at our expense. They really don't care what we or the naive church ladies think about their antisocial antics.

IN 1976 through a new friend I made in London, I fell in with a certain class of premie whom I never known before. Many were wealthy or ambitious or both, actors, musicians, trust fund slummers, drug dealers, one high-class whore and two ''models.'' Most of them knew Rawat personally at least enough to be invited to private parties.

I thought they were fun and amusing and so different from the church ladies of the ''cult'' whom I detested. These were the ''beautiful people'' of the cult, the jetset. I heard all the gossip about Rawat's boozing, drunk driving, drug taking and meat-eating. It was heady stuff.

(At that time my then wife had left M. I thought she could be attracted back in if she met these premies as she was a ballet dancer and would fit in with the show-biz people. Her dry Scottish take on them: ''They're about as exciting as cold custard.'' It took me a little longer to figure that out. Not until I moved to the hotbed of the jetset, Malibu, in 1978 did I see through them. Mostly I did not have the money to keep up with them and money is what this class of premie is all about.)

This class of premie would not be seen dead in an ashram, never did service and hardly ever attended satsang but they went to every single festival in every different country where they would parade around in the latest fashions and they always seem to have lots of money and cocaine.

These are the ones who can afford to travel to Amaroo and India. They all know each other no matter where they live and always have large apres M parties. I've mentioned some of its members a couple of times. I won't now so that I can say that I have never ever met a more superficial, phony, insincere, immoral and selfish bunch of people in my life.

The Sicko Cacweasels belong to this class. They are posting for each other. They honestly don't care if they alienate the naive and sincere church ladies of the cult by their vicious and antisocial behavior. In fact they have nothing but scorn for the church ladies and will tell you straight out that the church ladies created the cult not M. They would be glad to see the church ladies scram and leave M to them.

They are doing us a great service because they are chasing away from the cult any premie who reads here who has a conscience and a sense of decency and goodness and honesty. Let them piss on the forum. You don't have to smell their droppings but any interested questioning premie who tries to understand the forum will read and see what the elite hard-core cult-members are really like.

The church ladies are not the cult. They simply belong to a nice religion. The jetset is the real cult. In fact they created the cult around M. In fact they created the Rawat we know today. These phonies are the sort of people he likes and socializes with. He followed in their footsteps rather than the other way around. Of course they don't see that. But why should they? It is the blind leading the blind.

Suchabanana was not too far off when he substituted Tony Robbins (the get-rich-quick guru) for Rev Rawat in his recent parody. The cult really is now mostly for the rich and is all about money. (Erika: ""I'm so smug and successful."" SC: ""I just bought another guitar and I'm rich and uncouth."" Catweasel: ""I just made $6,000 for $1 on the horse races."" Yes, he really did say that on AG today.) The hardcore cultists are emulating Rawat in his greed and superficial consumerism.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:43:18 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: the creepy class
Message:
Hi pat,

I really liked your post. For me the whole cult was polluted with lots of class envy. It was ghastly the way that low ranking pleb premies slaved and subjected themselves and longed to be important. Ghastly the way that PAMS etc would indulge and cultivate their freaky status. There was such envy, raw, barely repressed class envy going on which was hilarious given that it was superficially about anti-materialism. And at the top was the Royal Family, the Rawats. I think that lots of premies enjoyed that he was rich and wanted him to acquire more because somehow that reflected on where they stood in the world. We were told that we were all part of his world and some of us loved that it was so delux. My parents always felt wonderful when Rawat acquired another toy, house etc, and they gave 10% of their income, made toys for his children, slaved without pay. I'll never forget the arti line 'sacrifice your all to satguru'! Rawat is nothing but an indulged and indulgent materialist who spouts cliches, cynically manipulates the pleb premies and gets seedy with the creepy class. I remember once at a festival he called premies houses 'rat holes' and we all went home feeling diminished but with a renewed desire to please the Master. It was so, so abusive. The slavery was physical,mental and emotional. And it is disgusting that there exists a jet-set group who get a sick thrill from the whole game. They're like spiritual gangsters but maybe that it being kind - I doubt they have a real interest in anything spiritual

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:34:02 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Hi Abi, how are you?
Message:
The funny thing is most of the jetset crowd I knew hardly ever meditated. They got their thrills from pills, cocaine and booze. Their smugness and absolute confidence in being the chosen people is what buoyed them. I think they were the exact kind of premies Rawat wanted: people who never did anything to become spiritually independent but relied totally on their faith in him and his constant ''reminders'' to breath and be happy etc.

I hope you are doing well. You are in my kindest thoughts.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:14:21 (EST)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM*** [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:57:08 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: Thanks, Francesca, but....
Message:
Maybe you should give me a prize for stupidity instead. I don't know how I missed this connection before. It was the coatrack cultweasels who visited my restaurant with the local EV honchos that finally made me vomit up the cult poison.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:05:20 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: They've trivialized themselves immensely
Message:
Notice how they don't even bother to take on anything substantive? Like John M's posts, for instance. Like Joe's recent deconstruction (destruction?) exercises. These fools don't even bother anymore. They know the jig's up. They're just being poor losers.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:02:12 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: They've trivialized themselves immensely
Message:
We all know John. We'll let his words stand. They speak for themselves. Delusion. It's a strange condition.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:21:06 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But they are putting up a fight
Message:
Hissing and scratching like cornered weasels, spiteful, mean and full of hatred. These last hardcore CACweasel cult fanatics are the real Hate Club.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:28:20 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: you may be surprised pat, but I like this post.
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:57:12 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Not too surprised, don
Message:
I figured out that you wouldn't like the organization or the jetset premies. I think you are an old hippy like me. Now if only you would realize that so much of you anger comes from holding onto a belief system that is making you unhappy.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 07:19:43 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: 21st century schizoid man..
Message:
but I understand you're not into rock'n'roll
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:37:32 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don
Subject: So you hate me coz I hate rock n roll?
Message:
Give me a cantata anyday.;)
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:36:23 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: the brandenburgers??
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:52:16 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Anything with a choir of angelic human voices [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:26:41 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Why do Sicko Cacweasels post here and...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:34:52 (EST)
From: Sir Dave }(
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Correction
Message:
CW made £6,000 in his dreams. I mean, ''If I had put a dollar on that bet etc etc''. It's what all gamblers say. I know, I've been one and once lost £11,000 in one bet. But if it had won...
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:55:52 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave }(
Subject: Correct Weight
Message:
Dave ,so unkind!!I was actually castigating you for not advising me on the form of the horses I enquired about ,two of them subsequently saluting the judge. I asked about 4 horses. Only 24 Horses in the race. My comment was on what excellent value the bet represented. The Melbourne Cup holds an absolutely mammoth pool. When was the last time 'the Jetsetter's' invested $1 as a serious gamble?Jesus Pat you are unbelievably twisted.What a load of unadulterated pap, all of it!
A good gambler never discusses their winnings.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:06:50 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: That's all they have.
Message:
This is all they have. No real talent or goals or meaningful relationships. Just the jet set phony world of belonging in the cult. The sad thing is they think that they are at the top of their game! What game? Is the cult worth anything? Nope.
Maharaji is bullshit.
His master speal is bullshit!
And these unfortunate people don't even realize it.
Hey, Pat did I tell you I realized Knowledge??????? Yes, indeed.
Guess what, thinking that the hum of your nervous system is God, is bullshit!
So Catweasel and others come here for attention mainly and come here to justify their very beliefs. See, in defending their cult through their prose, they can continually reinforce their delusions. Repeat something over and over and to most people it can become true.

Take care, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:10:39 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: repeating something over and over
Message:
my friend and I were just talking about someone we knew giving a version of something that happened over and over, to the point where she could believe it was true. His exact words were 'it's the oldest trick in the book, convince enough people and it becomes the truth'

I've seen these types at the googoo get-togethers. Kind of an ageing iggy pop look to the men and the women are rail thin with these very expensive clothes hanging off em. Last time they were clustered outside smoking together and fauning over michael Nouri.
They don't seem to realize that most people could care less about any of it. Even the church ladies don't really notice them.
I was studying them because I knew my days were numbered and they were fascinating, but not for the reasons they thought. More like an interesting phenomenon. Some of those I knew were much more idealistic and sincere in the beginning.
On one of my last attendences my travel companion and I were asked to one of those parties. I thought he was going to die from the excitement. I left him in LA, his choice, he would rather have hassled with getting home on a standby or whatever than miss that party.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:05:59 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene!
Message:
How are you?

I always hated those rail thin, shee-shee-shaa-shaa, nose up in the air rich PAMs too. They made me so sick, thinking they were something special, with all their Rodeo Drive getups, looking down their noses at us ashram premies who were in thread bare clothes. Snobs! All of them...

Hope you're doing well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:17:14 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Smoking with Michael Nouri
Message:
Sounds like a good title for one of the cult video magazine broadcasts like ''Connections.'' They could also have ''Gossiping with Charanand.''

The ultra-thin xray premies in designer clothes have become the only real regulars at M revivalist meetings. After dropping out of premiedom in the early 80s I went to a few events in the 90s. I noticed that a lot of the old faces (the hippies and peons) were not around anymore but the jetset was still there in full force looking more and more like skeletons or coatracks.

Of course they never did any service (that was for the poor deluded church mice er ladies) and hung around yakking and smoking with the EV stars until just before the event when they all rushed in a sat in the front seats for which they had paid very well.

They took what many of us thought was a continuation of the love and peace revolution and turned it into an upscale and chic Tony Robbins movement. Did they follow Rawat's example or did he follow theirs? All I can say is that they deserve each other.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:23:14 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Smoking with Michael Nouri
Message:
Did they follow Rawat's example or did he follow theirs? All I
can say is that they deserve each other.

To paraphrase Abby Hoffman
'If he is god he is the god his coatracks deserve'
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:49:28 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: No coatracks, my dear...
Message:
He has premie slaves who whisk those capes, shawls, furs, (petite wraps of all colors and fabrics) into the guest closet which, btw, is 1,500 sq. feet. Lined in cedar, it has a mini-bar so those ulra-neurotic SPAMS can have a quick nipper before sucking on the holi toes. A special ''Enjoying Life'' refreshment table complete with boogers from his plate of prassad is provided.

And get this: a gold plated toilet, preserved from the B707, sits in an ebony/marble tiled 'powder room' to be used as a trophy for all those big donors who laugh as they do about those inferior working, tackily dressed premies.

And they have the nerve to cyberstalk!

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:57:03 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: haha I hope you are joking?
Message:
But would not be at all surprised if you are not.
so, uh, is there a place like this? Do I want to know, I just ate.

Well if it's true I'm glad they are being resourceful and recycling the gold toilet.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:56:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: It's a joke...
Message:
But I also would not be surprised...as for the toidy, I don't know what ever happened to it.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:34:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The god of the coatracks? LOL [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 15:37:09 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Where is Rennie Davis when he is really needed
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:18:00 (EST)
From: A Friend
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Rennie's back
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:17:37 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Rennie Davis, I think...
Message:
Changed his name, had plastic surgery, and moved to Mongolia after seeing himself in the 'Lord of the Universe' video. :)
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:04:02 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: wannabee snobs more likely
Message:
Talk about your big fish in a little pond syndrome. hmm.. missed the rodeo getups. The ones in the late nineties had the $500 an aritcle from a boutique hippie grunge look.
I'm ok, very busy with work and family.
hope all is well for you too.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:22:59 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Ladies, please! You make is sound like...
Message:
... a CRIME to be well-dressed and enjoying life. If Maharaji, my wonderful TEACHER, not cult-leader, has taught me anything, it is not to go without the good things in life. He is such a good role model for us all. If some of premies, I mean, the students of Maharaji were too thick so figure it out, it's hardly the fault of successful, normal, not-in-a-cult premies.

But I don't mean to sound harsh (because I am nice and do care), and certainly those grungy Indian Mahatma's are much to blame, with their poverty conciousness, which is why Maharaji fired them all and replaced them with DVDs.

And my husband, Scotch, and I, have always believed in giving a leg up to students of Maharaji who are a few sandwhiches short of a picnic. Why just the other day, I was thinking, where is that Paulinie Premie person? It's getting cold with winter comming, and she lives in her car and must be running out of blood and extra organs to sell to get money to attend The Teacher's speaking events.

It just so happens that Scotch and I live on a charming 10 acre antebellum estate, that still has a functioning slave cabin on the premises. I'm just SURE that Pauline would feel at home there, she could burn sticks in the woodstove to keep warm after doing our yardwork for us, and do our laundry in exchange for food. She could be trained to help at local video events, and if she shows promise, and if she keeps her hands clean, Themla might even consider showing her how to straighen some white table cloths.

We really are only too happy to help fellow students of Maharaji. But you ex-students, you really are just too naughty. I suggest you read the articles on my website: ''Please Consider This, not THAT''. Read them over and over and over again, until you finally come to your senses and come back to The Teacher. Do that, or be CACked, which unfortunately for you, you richly deserve. Not that I have anything to do with CAC sites, (I'm really too nice to do that), but just as the sun is certain to set every day, foolish ex-students of The Master-Teacher must expect to get their butts kicked. It's not MY fault, it's just nature taking it's course. Entertain doubt, take the consequeces. You almost tricked me into going there, but I know better than THAT now. If you only ever read the GOOD websites about Maharaji, you wouldn't be so confused.

Anyway, enough time wasted on you lot. Read my website, or suffer, your choice. I have to take the dog to the vet, not yell at some people in my office who don't have Knowledge, and have lunch with a fellow student of Maharaji, while we probably won't even mention Maharaji's name because we are NOT in a cult!

Not Confused,

- Andrea Eriksonn,

NEVER in a cult, and kindly understanding that you are evnvious and bitter ex-students who need a good talking-too, but are far too dangerous to talk with.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:18:55 (EST)
From: Brother Hal N. Back
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: One question, Andrea
Message:
What are you wearing right now?

Excuse my forward question but do have mercy on this lonely old soul. All your talk of going in and out of closets and slinky clothes has caused 'that feeling' to arise in 'that place', if you catch my meaning. I can also make myself available for confession should there be anything bothering you, say a late night meeting with The Speaker' in said closet.

Yours in perpetuity,
Brother Hal N. Back
Church of the Ultimate Assumption
(and dear friend of Postie)

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:28:30 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: it's not the clothes its the shopping
Message:
I need servants to shop for me.
And well.. their choice of clothes is kinda funny. Only at an M event.
You really *are* so nice. Thank you for not talking to me.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:04:21 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Oh ,I dunno........
Message:
I hope that pleases you Tonnette.That's exactly why I come here. Actually I'm just like a dung beetle.
Try and imagine me driving my BMW Series 5. My six spiny arms clutching the steering wheel whilst I chew my cud and contemplate more takeaway from this great site.My incredible panoramic eyes scanning 360 degrees for fresh food!!
When I think of you Tonnette, I see this chrsytalline vision of the Goddess Dianna waving seductively to me from the altar of a run down Baptist Church. Your long hair(Blonde?) flutters dangerously , exposing your God-like inner thighs. I gaze into that mandala of divine pleasure..... and wake up Drunk on the floor....Damn Damn Damn!!
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:57:12 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Goddess Diana? I've a question for you CW
Message:
Actually several.
How old are you?
Why do you like posting and reading here? Seriously. I would like to know.

Oh, and Goddess Diana always keeps her legs crossed! Gad, she would never be that unladylike.

Regards, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:00:51 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Goddess Diana? I've a question for you CW
Message:
Well, I have been around since the early 70's.Just take my word that I am well versed.
Nothing noble. I dislike mis-information. I dislike cult behavior(plenty here-simply revision to type for a lot of the posters here - deeply engrained in their pysche..)
Some people here communicate without fear. I talk to them.
What keeps me here is the amazement at the furballs you are willing to swallow. EG:J McG was never close like he describes. Only ever by accident.He has been bitter about not being accepted in to 'the gang' (his vision)for most of the nineties.He has not been close to M in all that time.Good fiction but only hearsay.
Also as many who post here will attest, its quite habitual
Now about those legs -do you fancy a drink.................
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:18:20 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: your sexism is impotent and pathetic
Message:
there's not wit, no style, no intelligence.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:48:23 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: your sexism is impotent and pathetic
Message:
Do you know what? Ithink you could be right!
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:17:09 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: your sexism is impotent and pathetic
Message:
there's not wit, no style, no intelligence.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:25:56 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You got it, Tonette.
Message:
You said: ''So Catweasel and others come here for attention mainly and come here to justify their very beliefs. See, in defending their cult through their prose, they can continually reinforce their delusions. Repeat something over and over and to most people it can become true.''

Precisely and to reinforce the belief system that they share with their invisible (to us) audience of other cynical thoroughly modern PWKs. No morals or sense of belongng to the human race, elitist, smug and dangerously deluded.

Hey, guys, no wonder you're all alcoholics. But booze really is no substitute for a good night's natural sleep with a clean conscience.

You take care too, Tonette. Now I must go to bed.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:10:27 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: You got it, Tonette.
Message:
Funnily enough Pat you must be projecting. I dont drink much, I'm far too busy. I come here to view the greatest travesty of sensibility available on line.And group think, and cultish behavior.Two opponents!! Think yourself lucky . I reckon the sun must be shining right up your back passage Pat. Take a seat,the rest of us have to get some sleep.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:35:53 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: You prove my point in spades, Cacweasel [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:18:00 (EST)
From: Larry hart
Email: SolutionsLD@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Blue Aquarius
Message:
Hello,
In the 70's I was involved with the Apostles in Atlanta and Blue Aquarius in Malibu. I'm looking for any ex-premies who were associated with us. Please drop me an email and let's chat.
Thanks
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:03:28 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: All
Subject: CAC, Elan Vital, and Maharaji-Alert
Message:
People have used the false and libelous information contained on the CAC websites in order to contact members of the legal community in San Francisco and make false, libelous accusations about me.

You will be hearing from my attorneys.

Marianne Bachers

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:07:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: CAC, Elan Vital, and Maharaji-Alert
Message:
Shit! Did you ever imagine that we were once following an extremely evil person like RAWAT.

He succeeded at his game of cult leader. Now he's busted. He should take it like a man.

If anyone gets hurt that is an ex. Maha will have to watch his back.

This will be the straw that breaks the camel's back with many many premies. If Rawat causes any personal harm to anyone, people will go after him with avengence.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 13:14:31 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: My Email To EV re Attack Sites
Message:
Thanks, Marianne. Sorry to hear that the illegal activity continues and that you have been further victimized.

In regard to the two remaining Maharaji cult attack sites, I sent the following email yesterday to Elan Vital:

November 6, 2001

Dear Elan Vital Board of Directors and Elan Vital Public Relations Department:

Re: Further Attacks Against me by Your Members

You may recall that I complained to your organization in August, 2001, when some of your members set up an attack website against me and others called 'stopcyberstalkers.' In the past few days, five new such attack sites have appeared on the Intenet. I have complained to the servers and three of those websites were eventually removed. However, two of those sites remain.

One is at www.powow.com/right2hate. That site lists ex-premie.org with a bunch of 'hate' sites, including neo-nazi, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Christian, and Anti-Gay sites. In the section of the 'anti-Maharaji' sites, six individuals are listed. The site is vicious, and associates me with such hate groups. This is both libelous and defamatory to me.

The second site is http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/ and on that site I am listed, along with the name of my employer, and I am accused of various criminal activities. The accusations are false and defamatory. This site specifically refers to Elan Vital and is defending your organization. It also provides a link to the above website as 'proof' of my 'hate group' activities.

The purpose of this email is to demand that Elan Vital cease any involvement it may have in these criminal and illegal websites, take a public position on behalf of your organization and Mr. Rawat that it opposes such activities, and immediately contact the servers for those websites and ask that they be removed. This would conceivably have some impact as Elan Vital is specifically mentioned in those sites.

Both Elan Vital and Mr. Rawat have moral obligations to take such actions, to counteract the illegal and very damaging activities of your members. Since these kinds of attacks by followers of Maharaji appear to now be chronic, as well as illegal, activity, Mr. Rawat, more than ever, must make a public statement saying he does not approve of such actions, of he will be seen by his fanatical followers as having his approval.

You may contact me at the above email address, or call me at _______. I look forward to your prompt response.

Joe Whalen

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:28:03 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe and Marianne, what I want to know...
Message:
....is can we sue Rawat since the sites are done to silence his critics?

My thinking is that if Rawat continues to allow CAC sites then he is condoning them. It is up to him to prove that he is not behind them. Perhaps you should answer me by email rather than here as I am thinking about consulting an attorney on this.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:09:59 (EST)
From: FYI
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: CAC site is gone
Message:
We're behind you...go for it.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 02:37:34 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: FYI
Subject: False info on site was used
Message:
Some of the sites may be gone -- some are still there -- but the false and libelous information contained therein has been used to damage my professional reputation, just as I warned EV it would. The legal fallout belongs to them and the persons who authored the emails.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:32:44 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: False info on site was used
Message:
Marianne
dammit.
I hope your lawyers deal with them in a slow and deliberate manner so that ev and maraji are not able to hide behind the scenes - by letting the fools that put up CAC take the fall as 'zealots that were acting on their own behalf'
I hope pams who were in on the strategy will help.
dammit
Z
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:10:42 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Explanation of incongruities, John????
Message:
John: I've read your most recent PAM post again several times. It has always been my belief that when the folks surrounding Captain Rawat -- those who shore up his image and permit the facade to remain intact for those who have no access -- started to bail out and tell the truth, the ship would surely founder. The vast majority of M's devotees have no such access. All they see is that there are a slew of people who fight like hell to get close to the guy, and to stay there. They have no way to meaningfully evaluate how M lives his life and treats others, except for his public appearances. Exposing M and the cult for that which they really are can only be done by those who have this inside information. Many people came to and stayed with M and DLM/EV because of the people who surround the guy. Lives were diverted from other career and family paths by those who perpetuate the fraud. By telling the truth, by pulling back the curtain which has shielded M and his operation from public scrutiny -- and the scrutiny of those who have invested their lives and incomes -- you are giving people information upon which to make a real choice about the directions of their lives. I thank you for doing that from the bottom of my heart.

When newly departed premies surface on the forum, they often tell us just what it was that pushed them over the edge and made them leave. In his Journey, Anth coined the term 'the last drip' to describe this recognition. You mentioned two issues which seemed to be pivotal in your own decision: Jagdeo's molestation of children and M's personal and corporate response to it, and CAC. I realize that you told us that you would talk about Jagdeo on another occasion, but I what I am most interested in is what was it about that whole sad, still evolving debacle that convinced you to leave the cult? What information did you learn, what conversations did you have, or what soul searching did you experience that made Jagdeo one of your final drips?

And what about this CAC stuff? Obviously I have an interest in it because I have been named on several of the sites. I suppose I should not be surprised by this, but the information on those sites with respect to some of us is totally false. Some of the information written about me is false and libelous. Do these people actually think that the targets -- me included -- would sit back and do nothing?

What has been written on EPO is primarily an expose' of Captain Rawat and his empire, and the story of how he accumulated it. Much of the story comes from first hand accounts of those who were there, are there, and have identified themselves. If these people still follow Captain Rawat, and do so because they are experiencing 'that peace within', why do they feel compelled to libel the critics and risk being sued themselves, as well as setting up the Captain himself, EV and its Board of Directors, for lawsuits? If the guy is so great, why does he need these attack dogs? Are any of these factors part of what disturbed you about CAC? What exactly was/is it about the sites that was a decisive drip for you?

The CAC sites to me are a disturbing phenomenon. They are dangerously close to being the verbal equivalent of Fakiranand's hammer to Pat Halley's head, after Captain Rawat got pied in Detroit (something I witnessed). This kind of devotional display, however overtly or covertly encouraged, suggests to me that there is an element out there who will do anything to protect the 'master's' reputation from being further smudged, even when what we say is true. The EV search for 'PAM' after your first post smacks of the same kind of paranoid hysteria.

Any thoughts or comments you have about these matters would be appreciated.

Marianne Bachers

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:43:29 (EST)
From: John
Email: johnmac@turboweb.net.au
To: Marianne
Subject: Explanation
Message:
Hi Marianne,

Yeah, I think we'll see more of those close to M come out over the next year. And gain more insight into the real person.

Of course there's a lot of info out there already, and I sometimes wonder if someone shouldn't write it all up into a single, tight document, to circulate to premie friends and fence-sitters and new people...

As I've been trying to explain to premie friends today, the idea of such information is not to defame, but to allow people to make informed choices.

Re my final drips, which included Jagdeo: I'm the loving father of two daughters. When it became sufficiently clear that the crimes had happened, that M had been told about them more than once, that M had not only failed to act but had kept Jagdeo on the instructors' circuit, and that even M's PR advisors were disgusted with him for this... What else could any sane person do but dissociate themselves from him? There just wasn't a choice. It was torpedo amidships.

As for CAC:

As far as I can tell, most of the stories about M on EPO - horrific as some of them are - are true. They are well-attested, frequently cross-corroborated, and fleshed out with convincing detail. I personally can corroborate some of them; PAMs and ex-PAMs I know can corroborate others. The stuff on the CAC site, on the other hand, is distorted at best, and sheer fabrication at worst - and is, worst of all, merely an attempt to intimidate people into silence.

Thus I don't buy the premie argument that exes are getting a dose of their own medicine. I don't think CAC IS their own medicine.

Anyway, when such medicine is dispensed, one can only respond vigorously. (Churchill rather than Chamberlain needs to be our model here, IMO.)

The 'good' thing about CAC is that such desperate approaches - which are clearly causing M much harm, including among his own constituency - may characterise a dying cult. And, further, may serve to actually hasten its death: every premie I've told about CAC is genuinely disgusted.

Best wishes to you Marianne,

John

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:04:39 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Re: Explanation
Message:
John, you say: 'As I've been trying to explain to premie friends today, the idea of such information is not to defame, but to allow people to make informed choices.'

And I say you are 1000% correct. The above expresses succinctly my only motivation for posting here.

Richard
- who never sent viruses to anyone nor advocated anyone to drug and kidnap Maharaji’s brother or anything else myself and others are accused of on the Halt On-Line Hate website

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:22:38 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Harboring a Paedophile???
Message:
John,

I know you are writing a post on Jagdeo, but I think this part of your post here contains new information:-

Re my final drips, which included Jagdeo: I'm the loving father of two daughters. When it became sufficiently clear that the crimes had happened, that M had been told about them more than once, that M had not only failed to act but had kept Jagdeo on the instructors' circuit, and that even M's PR advisors were disgusted with him for this... What else could any sane person do but dissociate themselves from him?

Let us be clear here - Maharaji continued to allow Jagdeo to tour, against advice, with presumably no arrangements to keep him away from children, after he (Maharaji) was told about Jagdeo's crimes. The new (to me) information is that some sort of discussion took place with his PR advisers and Maharaji was specifically advised against allowing him to tour. Cab you give more details?

Looks like the 'Harboring a Paedophile' headline will soon be returning to EPO.

John.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 03:47:05 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I suggest ***** best of **** nomination
Message:
Love,
++++
JM
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:02:28 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Explanation of incongruities, John?
Message:
you say this Marianne...'there is an element out there who will do anything to protect the 'master's' reputation from being further smudged...'

I think you're right. Here is an extract from the 1st post I made on the internet (last year) after digesting,& being freaked out by,the information on EPO.

It's hearsay.

....'2 or 3 years ago a friend of mine approached a well known English premie & long time Dlm/Ev stalwart for advice about what to do about a premie (now ex) who was disrupting the local video events.

The stalwart said more or less that the occasional freakout was nothing to get bothered about. When it got to someone who was consciously obstructing m's work however, & they would'nt stop then in the end the only thing you could do was kill them.

I was very taken aback when I heard this but then I remembered that the stalwart had; often been the guy at the wheel of m's 20foot
juggermerc when it did a racing exit through a crowd of darshan hungry premies;would have got a gold medal if the diving pranam was an Olympic event, & was a high octane hellfire satsang giver.

I decided that what he'd said was overblown rhetoric brought on by an excess of zeal & forgot about it.

He wasn't being serious........was he?'

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:51:41 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: You're too damn cute, PatD
Message:
''....the diving pranam was an Olympic event....''

Maybe we can include that event in our next Baby Throwing Festival.

I imagine the dead cyclist was trying the ''bicycle darshan dash'' when Rawat killed him.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:41:23 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Death threats against Exes?
Message:
Shit, can anyone confirm this?
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 16:55:19 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Death threats against Exes?
Message:
I talked to the guy who told me this in the summer. He said he had no recollection of having said any such thing. He's still a premie,although no longer synchronised,smokes a lot of dope,& is a good friend who I go out of my way to see a couple of times a year. I don't consider him to be the kind of person who makes things up so I can only conclude that he's genuinally forgotten.

When you're connected to M ,memory is something that is often self suppressed.

I bumped into the ex in question last year when I was still a premie & we went for a drink & talked for an hour or so. Rawat never came up in the conversation so I have no idea whether or not she knew what the honcho had said.

She doesn't live in England now & is not the sort of person to be bothered about messing around with computers,so it's unlikely that I will ever know.

I dug that story out of the archives(written in a paranoid early ex frame of mind) to back up Marianne's point, that there could very well be some people out there who are prepared to go well beyond the pale in order to protect the Lord.

Whether or not the honcho who told my friend that people who persist in hindering the Most Important Human should be killed is one of them , I have no idea.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:02:09 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Quote from Maharaji
Message:
'Whether or not the honcho who told my friend that people who persist in hindering the Most Important Human should be killed is one of them , I have no idea. '

How about this quote from maharaji

'If anything comes between you and Guru Mahara Ji, regard it as your enemy amd strike it out of the way'.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:17:16 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Jeth, where did you hear that?
Message:
Very freaky little megalomaniac that Maha, grrrrrrr

How do people listen to that and not freak out.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:02:54 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: I have it on tape
Message:
somehere. I thin it was in oraround the time of The Hurrican Satsang.
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