Archie McDonald -:- No Real Sadness At Waking UP -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 08:16:44 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Hi Archie. -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:47:28 (EST)

__ bill -:- your folks would be/are proud of you [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 19:59:33 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Thanks Archie, nice post -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 17:12:48 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Archie, I'm looking forward ... -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:26:12 (EST)

__ __ Jim S. -:- Pat, you're so right about parents... -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 22:56:37 (EST)

__ __ __ gerry -:- ****BEST OF**** [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 13:46:36 (EST)

__ __ __ PatC -:- PWKs are so ''significant.'' -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 04:01:02 (EST)

__ Richard -:- Thanks Archie -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 13:05:45 (EST)

__ salsa -:- It only gets better -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 10:27:13 (EST)

__ Jethro -:- Hi Archie, good to see you -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 10:12:51 (EST)

__ __ Archie McDonald -:- Hello Eddie -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:03:19 (EST)

__ Loaf -:- Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 09:38:42 (EST)

__ __ bill -:- Half a Loaf? or Loaf half full? -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 21:25:00 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- thankyou Bill -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 03:37:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Bill, Loaf thanks for belly laugh! Priceless -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:57:56 (EST)

__ __ __ bill -:- oops, pooftah means Him? [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 21:32:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: oops, pooftah means Him? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:22:15 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Loaf, you're a young chicken. -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:56:43 (EST)

__ __ Bryn -:- Loaf. you is my hero! -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:36:45 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- No ! You is mine ! [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:37:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Bryn -:- No No! Don't you see? That's the whole point. -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 08:54:47 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- It could be worse -- you could be older -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:32:17 (EST)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Rites of passage -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:43:54 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- Jim thanks -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:36:13 (EST)

__ __ Moley -:- Loafie - big hug from me too -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:23:11 (EST)

__ __ __ Loafie -:- Thanks Moley... you are a love (nt) [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:37:03 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Damn right, you need a hug, Loaf -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:22:45 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- the PC dating agency swings into action ! -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:39:16 (EST)

__ __ Richard -:- Re: Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 13:23:00 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:31:01 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Here' some more hugs, Loafie -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 18:49:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- I left my heart..... -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:40:17 (EST)

__ __ magiclara -:- Re: Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 11:46:18 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:43:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: Real Sadness -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 15:21:39 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- thanks mags [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:38:49 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- re:real sadness -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 05:08:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- I dont know what to say :)) [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 03:39:34 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- And the Jack Kerouac Award goes to... -:- Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 11:20:06 (EST)

Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 08:16:44 (EST)
From: Archie McDonald
Email: None
To: All
Subject: No Real Sadness At Waking UP
Message:

Pressed wrong button previous thread.

I felt no great sadness at waking up and leaving the Maharaji cult. It is something that was building over a period of time. The realisation of a thousand drips that was always subdued by the brainwashing.

I guess the myth of knowledge kept me in there but I now know that the techniques are taught by many some in the same format and some in a slightly different format.

I now practice a different form of meditation which I find just as rewarding but really better because it has not any of the cult strings attached and I just do it when I want as part of my natural growth and desire to know.

EPO has been a great help in my 'waking up' and was the big drip that finally killed off any feeling of loyalty to M and the 5% belief that he may be still possibly the 'Lord'. The final step from believing in a Lord to not believing in a Lard.

I felt no sadness because I felt that I had left nothing behind to be sad about. I felt no anger either except more recently as I wake up to the realisation of the lost relationships, carears, and family ties that have been a direct result of my involvement with M. This is especially true of my parents who are now both dead and I am trully sorry that they are not still alive so that I could communicate with them free of all the cult indoctrination.

Since I 'left' my relationships with my wife and with the rest of humanity have changed for the better. My whole sense of well being is better and I am well glad to be out of the cult.

I read the forum regularly and feel a bond with the people here because of our common shared experiences and to see how people have moved on and living meaningfull lives as normal human beings. I guess I may know a few of you. I know that my wife knows AJW and my stepson is friends with his son. And others I may well know as well.

Best Regards to all.

Archie

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:47:28 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Hi Archie.
Message:

It really gives me a little buzz everytime I read a letter like yours. Another liberated soul back on Planet Earth.

Life really does improve, the further away from the Captains crumbling cult you get. Once you get out, it's like you're given a brand new drawing book and set of paints.

We really owe a lot of thanks to those brave, thoughtful souls who set up EPO. (Thanks again.)

I suspect my son travelled with your stepson in Oz for a while, three or four years ago. He'd been hanging around, and staying with several premies while he was there. They were all really kind, generous and hospitable when he was there, particularly our old friends John and Jill. Dot and I were most grateful. When he got back to the UK he was seriously thinking about taking knowledge. Fortunately, during the year he was away, I saw the light. After he'd been home a few hours, I gave him a copy of my 'Journey' to read. He was a bit shocked, as I'd been gung-ho when he left.

Anyway, needless to say the story had a happy ending. He was saved from becoming a culthead in injury time.

Now the cats are sprinting out the bag, and there's all this information pouring onto the net about the Captain and his shady goings on, it's going to be hard to attract anyone at all to the cult.

'The Golden Age' seems to have stalled on the starting line. Wait. What was that bang? Wohay. The engine's blown up. The car's on fire. I wonder where the Captain's scurrying off to?

Say hello to your wife. (I still don't know who she is. She probably had a different name when I knew her in my past life.)

Take it easy Archie. I know you're going to enjoy life outside the cult.

The Ex-premie record speaks for itself. In the UK, there are hardly any premies left compared to glory days of the 70s.

Thank Gilgamesh it's all over.

Anth, 'open uppa your bank account to the universe of love, and he will fill himself up.'

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 19:59:33 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: your folks would be/are proud of you [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 17:12:48 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Thanks Archie, nice post
Message:

You mention that you were processing the whole idea of the cult for some time and that's why you're landing is probably so smooth.

Others read this stuff, and fireworks go off. It is important to respect and understand that the process will be different for everyone for multiple reasons.

Being angry and emoting hate are also very valid reactions to the realization of Maha's Cult. What he is doing is a crime on humanity and based on megalomania and excessive greed for devotion power and money.

Glad you're free and that the landing was smooth.

Cheers,

Deborah

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:26:12 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Archie, I'm looking forward ...
Message:

...to getting to know you. I hope you write more. I thoroughly enjoyed your message. Like you, I am sorry that my parents did not live long enough for me to love them honestly without the cult-think getting in the way.

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 22:56:37 (EST)
From: Jim S.
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Pat, you're so right about parents...
Message:

It really has been true for me....how when you leave the cult consciousness, your relationships become so much better.

I just spent 4 days with my parents, thoroughly enjoying their company...this was literally impossible for me to do until the last 2 years when I left the fold....

It's also true for all of the other relationships in my life....when I left the 'the world is illusion' concept ingrained in us by m for decades, I became one with my life, the world, and people all aorund me.....the separation is gone...peace is simple and easy...nowhere to be, except right where I am right now....

It's funny isn't it, that in order to get to that simple place inside, we all came to believe that we had to do all of those strange things in following m through his latest hoops to jump through....

When I stopped listening to m, my life naturally came around and made itself right...that includes work, relationships and everything else I encounter in my life....and what a relief to not have to do that routine he puts the premies through!...

How do you spell relief?...........dropout!

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 13:46:36 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: ****BEST OF**** [nt]
Message:

It really has been true for me....how when you leave the cult consciousness, your relationships become so much better.

I just spent 4 days with my parents, thoroughly enjoying their company...this was literally impossible for me to do until the last 2 years when I left the fold....

It's also true for all of the other relationships in my life....when I left the 'the world is illusion' concept ingrained in us by m for decades, I became one with my life, the world, and people all aorund me.....the separation is gone...peace is simple and easy...nowhere to be, except right where I am right now....

It's funny isn't it, that in order to get to that simple place inside, we all came to believe that we had to do all of those strange things in following m through his latest hoops to jump through....

When I stopped listening to m, my life naturally came around and made itself right...that includes work, relationships and everything else I encounter in my life....and what a relief to not have to do that routine he puts the premies through!...

How do you spell relief?...........dropout!


---

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 04:01:02 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: PWKs are so ''significant.''
Message:

Somewhere on this page a premie troll accused exes of being insignificant. I guess the premie feels significant. I know I sure did. In fact I felt absolutely special. After all I had the Knowledge of god and even sent checks to god in a bod. I was really IN THE KNOW, so goddammmed superior.

That fake significance was a huge barrier between me and all of my loved ones. They were going to die and did not know the immortality that I had the secret to. I felt so sorry for them. Why could they not see that I was shining with the truth?

Yuk! I much prefer being insignificant, thanks.

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 13:05:45 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Thanks Archie
Message:

Wonderful post Archie. You've got a huge heart, man.

Missing the 'community' got me going back to see M in the mid-90's after 7 years or so of abstinance. The old music, slideshows and seeing lots of old friends seduced me back into 'that place'. It was familiar and comforting until I woke up again. I found myself sitting in that huge Long Beach convention hall listening to M speak, thinking about how great it would be to just 'let go' to 'that feeling' and be a whole person. I call it the 'White Knight Syndrome', i.e. someone or something will rescue me from my mediocre life. Fortunately, a bit of descrimination rose to the occasion and, in fact, rescued me from thinking I needed rescuing.

I was operating under M's socially acceptable image de jour of being a humanistic teacher of meditation. That somehow did not compute while viewing the devotional porno videos of M strolling on the beach to lite disco and bad poetry. The divine photo gallery screamed 'worship me' and the histrionic rant coming from the stage said 'I know everything that really matters to you and you are chopped liver'. (EV monitors: I made up the chopped liver part. Don't want anyone accusing me of spreading hateful lies.) So I walked.

I still get pangs of wanting to be part of a dynamic and loving community but not at M's price of admission. I have moments of sadness that such a noble cause became perverted as it has.

Richard

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 10:27:13 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: It only gets better
Message:

really.
Take care.

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 10:12:51 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Hi Archie, good to see you
Message:

I knew you for a while in the 70s. I'm not sure whether you'll remember me or not.
My name then was Eddie Fisher.

I'm glad you can breathe freely again.

Jethro

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:03:19 (EST)
From: Archie McDonald
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Hello Eddie
Message:

Hello Eddie Good to hear from you. I do remember you.

Archie

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 09:38:42 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Archie McDonald
Subject: Real Sadness
Message:

archie..I woke up this mornin....

I have been thinking about stuff recently (strange eh) and its odd that i havnt had any regrets over my time with M - not serious ones... but recently I have been a little 'down' - and the old established K, Event pick-me-up was not what I wanted any more.. I have lost my taste for going through the escape hatch..and so i have to face a few home truths.

Truths which are coloured now with regret and loneliness.. I am not laying all the blame on my time with M.. not at all, but in these matters, the matters of my relationships.. I know that the pseudo holy atmosphere of events and 'listening' did NOT help me.

Over the past week, for the first time in what seems like a looong time..I have been feeling lonely.

Nothing to serious I suppose.. but it was the sort of loneliness that like a single loose thread, can unravel a jumper.

I am coming to realise that I miss people. I need to be more sociable.. but rather like a stranded 1980s Premie disliking bars and smoke and alchohol... I dont know where to go or what to do.

Then i start looking at my life... a 39 yr old pooftah whose self defense mechnisms have kept him afloat, aloof even, and for whom Knowledge was a powerful shield against allowing myself to Need anybody.

well... now my shield is gone.. the community and even the social rhythm and structure of going to events, locally, regionally, internationally... gone.

I have lost my festivals.

and I have missed my lover..... perhaps all my best years spent in prim Knowledge sexual-denial have cost me that one real relationship which would keep me company and love me as I go through all this..I traded a taste for real relationships for the easily available fantasy one with a jelous and posessive master.

I have no lover - and being a 40 yr old mildly depressed ex-cult poof is hardly going to win the hearts of any lusty young men over...that was all available 20 yrs ago... and I slept through it.

Now that I am awake I realise.. I am not my 'type' any more.. I dont blame em for running ! I went to sleep a beauty and woke up.. a beast.

(I dont mean that folks. its just the analogy talking !)

I have just come to look around at the wreckage of my life.... breakfast in the ruins.. and my saviour, my One great 'get out of jail free' card has long since expired.

So here I am .. sitting among the 20 yr old debris of a neglected life.. Mid Life Crisis standing at my shoulder..

What next folks ?

The needs which I sublimated in order to pursue Knowledge are as pressing as ever.. only this time, I feel them.

We all need a hug sometimes.

Loaf

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 21:25:00 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Half a Loaf? or Loaf half full?
Message:

You know, there are kids in the big brother/big sister program that
dont have folks.
I had 2 kids here that I befriended and played a role for and I reccomend doing it for you.
Best way to sail past the midlife thing is volunteer and do something for others.
There are lots of organizations that do good, I say definately call the big sister program at least to see what they say.
If I was single, I would befreind one of the strays that really dont
ask for much time, but just someone to talk to and do some things with and someone who will care and maybe do some little things that
can make a real difference.
There ARE guys still around, they may not look so studly anymore, maybe slightly Beastlike, but I would notlose your hope for that.
By the way, many people have kids in their forties.
If you go to some local elementary school when they have some fair, look at all the parents, quite a few are MY age. And I am older than you. forty nine to be exact.

Frankly, if I was in your spot, I would definately pick a date by which I planned on getting pregnant.
Good husband material or not, at one point I would just say, thats it, times up, My kid gets a father that is not my ideal choice,
and maybe this guy aint offering a ring, but he IS going to be a father, and who the hell knows, he may be a good one. Even if I dont want to live with the guy, my kid has a dad, and I will love my kid, and that is all the kid really needs, ONE parent that actually cares.

You will be fine, and if you do that, and need help and money for your kid, my email is
bill52@rocketmail.com

Just being me Loaf, I care about you.

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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 03:37:19 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: thankyou Bill
Message:

what a lovely post.
Thanks.

The fact that I am a bloke had led me to believe that I couldn't get pregnant .. but now I at least want to die in the attempt !

seriously though.. thanks fer your advice.

I love helping others

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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:57:56 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Bill, Loaf thanks for belly laugh! Priceless
Message:

I just love this bloody forum. You guys are great.

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 21:32:55 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: oops, pooftah means Him? [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:22:15 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: oops, pooftah means Him?
Message:

Yep Bill Pooftah is a Brit term for a gay man. Classic posts. Cheered me up. Thanks. Marvellous lanuage mix ups aren't they? Where are you from ?
Mags (rofl)

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 15:56:43 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loaf, you're a young chicken.
Message:

Shit, I wish I'd got out at your age. I'd learn a new musical instrument, join a band, take up fishing, watercolours, reading more, writing.

You're just a young chicken Loaf. When you get to my age you'll have something to moan about.

When I lived in London, we only had small, face hight mirrors. When we lived in Holland, last year, we had a full length mirror in the bedroom. Several times I caught my reflection in it and surprised myself with the thought, 'Shit. Who's that fat old bastard stumbling across the room.'

Ah ha. Now I need a hug.

Hang on in there Loaf, on the aging side, it only gets worse.

Anth, fuck, I've pissed myself again. Dooooot!

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:36:45 (EST)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loaf. you is my hero!
Message:

Continue to continue chuck.

LOVE FROM BRYN xxx

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:37:50 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: No ! You is mine ! [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 08:54:47 (EST)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: No No! Don't you see? That's the whole point.
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:32:17 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: It could be worse -- you could be older
Message:

Loaf,

You're not going to get too much sympathy for your age around here, unfortunately for the rest of us.

But, yes, you raise a very real issue. A VERY real one. Leaving behind the cult was a social disruptor for all of us. I left after only eight or nine years in and have since had twenty years to rebuild my life but even then I know that I'm a bit of a misfit in some respects. By that I mean that my twenties could have been spent building my life, socially as well as in other respects, and that I might still have those people as friends. To me, pne of the most disappointing experiences I've had leaving the cult is losing the easy-going friendship I enjoyed with so many of my fellow cult members when I was in.

A bunch of old-time premies got together in Vancouver a couple of years ago and, surprise, surprise, I wasn't invited. Honestly, even though I understood damn well why, that hurt my feelings. I still have this goal of ALL of us, all the people I once knew and was friends with, dancing on Maharaji's figurative grave together.

But you need a new hobby, perhaps. Have you thought of taking up meditation? :)

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:43:54 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Rites of passage
Message:

getting the cold shoulder from old friends has probably been the most difficult part of my exit. I guess you really know that you have made it all the way out cult when you are no longer called on the phone tree, you are struck from the mailing list and are not invited to events anymore.

It is not like I have an interest in attending another program or receiving anything further from the cult today, because I don't and that part doesn't really bother me. It's just that after preaching all this love and brotherhood over the years once your cult member friends figure out that you are going against the grain, all of those features, benefits and relationships go out the window. Pretty shallow and superficial philosophy when really put to the test.

Oh well, what could one possibly expect from the cult that acts like a cult and pretends to be something else. We are one in the spirit, we are all sister and brothers in that love, la la la.

Now we come to this....

Hey! did you hear about Brian Smith? he renounced Maharaji, NO, I don't believe it really, I always liked him, he always seemed so devoted so willing to do whatever was needed for Maharaji, what happened? I dunno, he really got into his mind I guess, started believing bad things about maharaji. Oh yeah! well fuck him then, I always knew there was something about him that I didn't like, and he wasn't coming round as regularly as he should. Take his name off of the list and never speak to him again, the ungrateful bastard.

Some lifelong friends huh, I have actually heard this "simulated conversation" about other exe's before. Typically whispered and bandied about in bewildered, aghast & angered tones amongst fellow cult menbers, rarely if ever with the departed member directly.

It would be more honest and easier to accept if they were as upfront as that. Instead, it is up to you to bear the burden of the projected chill factor, shunned away, even though you don't always feel the same towards them.

The brother and sister bit all these years was just an act, it turns out they are not even good enough friends to honor an honest good-bye.

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:36:13 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim thanks
Message:

39 does not sound old.. until you try picking up a gayboy....LOL

Thanks ever so much for your words... now... about this meditation business...

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 16:23:11 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loafie - big hug from me too
Message:

Give me a ring and I'll come for a cuppa yer scrumptious coffee
****

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:37:03 (EST)
From: Loafie
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Thanks Moley... you are a love (nt) [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:22:45 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Damn right, you need a hug, Loaf
Message:

Perhaps you need to move to SF where the young asian men love older, wiser and spiritual men.

The other side of the coin. I had a lover through the last 20 years in the cult and in fact brought him into it. Last night I had to apologise again to him for the nasty person I had been while in the cult.

I keep having light-bulbs going off in my head when I realize how insane I was, how badly I treated people including my own family. I did not realize how much anger I had in me that was caused by suppressing my detestation of Rawat. Fear and loathing.

I was afraid of following those hunches that he was not god but hated him. It was an ugly and sick relationship and it affected all my other relationships. I have a lot of apologizing to do to many people for being a mentally deranged cultist.

Not every poof is looking for a young athletic pornstar for a husband. Some are looking for real love, trust and respect. What's the bet you find someone even better than you ever imagined?

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:39:16 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: the PC dating agency swings into action !
Message:

a bet ?

heehee

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 13:23:00 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: Real Sadness
Message:

Hey Loaf,

How about a big hug from a straight guy? Love you, man. Incredibly heartfelt post from you.

You ask 'what's next?' Plenty. Anyone who could post what you did has tremendous courage and the fire to engage in life fully. For myself what's next is to continue reclaiming the parts of myself that have atrophied over time. I have recently been working with the idea and experience of Boddhi Chitta (sp?). It is the Buddhist idea of the awakened heart/mind. That was partially what attracted me to GMJ in the first place. Now I'm revisiting the experience without having to attribute it to anyone.
M&K has always been about blissing out and getting high on darshan. Amusing experience but it was about escape and never addressed the emotional side of life. So part of withdrawel from blissing out is having to face the emotions and abandoned self. By the way. "Follow your bliss" is usually misquoted as meaning to just bliss out all the time. Joseph Campbell said 'follow your bliss' as part of an entire treatise on conciousness. Loosly paraphrasing him, he says that if you follow your bliss, it will lead you on your life's journey that will eventually lead to the dark, rich underworld of your life. There one finds the raw materials (emotions, thoughts, etc) to be a whole person. Staying in the bliss bunny state will never yield a mature person.
As I begin the journey into the second half of life, I'm amazed at the richness of my emotional body and how fear, anger and sadness actually are allies for living a full life. In the past they were summarily dismissed as 'the mind' or otherwise unimportant and to be avoided. I hear the Brits don't generally believe in therapy or counselling but it seems to work here in the colonies.

Peace to you, Loaf.

Richard

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:31:01 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Real Sadness
Message:

Thanks Rich, very much.

AFTER K I found it really strange to have to 'repect' my petty feelings and all the mortal weaknesses of 'this world'

and so here I am... rummaging about with some long lost friends and enemies, (feelings).. it all takes a bit of getting used to, cos every one of these feelings is fastened to my sense of self and my place in the world.

The penalty for dis-connecting the 'feeling bit' from the world, from your self, from the organic and social personality and subjugating it into a mono-relationship where all gratitude is hijacked is that there is quite a bit of paying back to be done after years of running up debts.

Render unto caesar....

Its a bit like growing up.. I imagine.

But the pain seems to deepen things... just as the shadows deepen a picture.

Loafie
x

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 18:49:56 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Loaf
Subject: Here' some more hugs, Loafie
Message:

Hi there Loafie. Here's more hugs from the SF ex contingent. Thanks for writing so soulfully about this part of the exiting process, and the just being human process. Your words have struck chords with many of us, Loaf. When you reach out here, people respond in kind. No one tries to explain away your pain or tells you to ignore it by meditating or doing service or getting out of your mind. Sorting out who we are when we've been through a traumatic event is a difficult, maybe time consuming process. As the posts here have shown, it's a necessary part of leaving the cult, and of just being human. There's no panacea for the emotional pain life experiences sometimes bring us. We are here for you and we hear you. And we learn from you.

As for Pat's description of the SF gay community -- well, SF is a wonderful place -- that's all I can say. You Brits all threaten to show up on our doorsteps but never do! (Did ya read that Nigel and Moley, Jethro, etc???) We'd love to see you all.

Feel free to email me, Loafie.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:40:17 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I left my heart.....
Message:

It would be nice to come out and visit.

Thanks marianne.. you am so nice.

xx

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 11:46:18 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: Real Sadness
Message:

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Loaf))))))))))))))))))))))))))Here's a virtual hug. Now you know where I live if you want a real one. Bloody cults and masters waste of space the lot of em.
Love Mags

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 14:43:50 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: Real Sadness
Message:

thanks maggs....

how are Stanley Bastard McNulty (?)Beast of Bodmin,Gas Wall heater Worshipping, Set fire to Yourself, Physiotherapy, Cliff Richard Cat and Rob ??

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 15:21:39 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: Real Sadness
Message:

Nearly right it's set yourself on fire not set fire to yourself. Everyone is fine thanks. We should go out on't thrash one night you know. Love Mags

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Date: Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 20:38:49 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: thanks mags [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 05:08:06 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: re:real sadness
Message:

hey, damn..whaddya know. look at the date. I'm right on time. it's the recognition du jour and I'm feeling the same thing everybody else is talking about. I'm not as out of touch with the real world as I feared.
Hey loaf. it's the same over here in venice with me today. feeling bummed, down, alone, isolated, but I know what i would have to pay to go back to that fake company and I won't do it. Will not. If satan were to offer me that contract again I'd rip it--and his face, off--and burn them both.
don't anyone tell my psychiatrist this, but i deliberatly went off my feelgood meds a week ago. it happened naturally actually. i started falling deep asleep without them, taking naps that left me more restored than i have felt in years, and i just forgot all about my being supposed to take them. as a result, this strange feeling of unreality has left me. the meds gave me a kind of 'take the edge off' softening, which outwardly made me a nicer person to be around, because i was just slightly doped and couldn't marshall my brain to focus sharply. I had been on the pills 2 years when i started to fall asleep witht taking them.
i notice this week without them, I have been quick, sharp, awake, conscious, demanding and much, much clearer. my mind has gotten its awareness back. I wake up at 7 am without an alarm and work all day. I'm eating better. When i do tire, its right around sundown and i eat dinner and fall into a deep, spontaneous resting sleep afterward for about 2 hours. years of pretending to be nicey nice and sugar coat all my real thoughts and acts, its all disappearing. I catch myself struggling to be extra perfect and i snap and irritably chuck the whole act and say 'fuck it! i don't feel like that and I'm through with that shit!'. and ya know what?
I feel me, coming back. I feel the me I shut up in a closet 27 years ago, finding its way out into the daylight again. wow, is it real.
and sadness. oh boy, sadness. tonight my23 year old son looked out the window into a driving rain and announced 'Mom, I'm going out. I never get to go out, and I'm sick of being in the house.'
I got bummed. I had a tantrum. I made it real evident how unhappy I was to be left utterly alone on a rainy weekend night. I told him flat out that i wasn't happy about it. I told him it was gonna suck, waking up in a cold house alone by myself. He promised to come home in the morning right after tea with his female interest. I pouted. I sulked. But I didn't make him stay home. I knew he had a valid right to go, and that I needed to be with myself and find out what this was that was rising in me.
I have been rotten company all week. Thanksgiving, I didn't go over to a friend's feast, conscious of how moody and cranky I've been. They brougt me a plate afterwards. My outbursts sound childish and immature, even to me, but I'm letting them surface. I would rather have them than perpetuate the artificial do-gooder, ever patient, little miss helpful, perfect example act I lived for decades, thinking I could be a living example to potential converts, to draw them to my gooroo by my amazingly saintly behavior.
it's all gotta come down. It's all gotta crumble so I can find out who i am without it, beneath the facade, behind the wall, liberated from the mask.

I try to tell my kid i have to do this.I aplogize to him for how bitchy i am lately, and he laughs and says it's ok, he likes weird people. he says a lot of friends were grumbly, bad tempered people.
i pause to think of my never-been a premie friend Mark, the one who came to programs since 1991 with me, who had darshan dreams and reached the light, Music and nectar without ever gettng into a Knowledge session--and Mark has a temper like a storm. a storm in a small box. he roars and busts things and cusses and lleaves a swath of destruction. he usually weeps at the end of it.
we all forgive him. we all like him. he spurns the very idea of conforming to 'nice' behavior. and it hasnt cost him any friendships. he's the only guy i know who has no declared enemies, in fact. he can live like that, i have nothing to fear for myself.

yeah, it sucks, that all those glowy, lovey, little angel perfect scenarios we came together for were all a bunch of shit. ally pally. kissimee. miami. those doofy blue tunnels. our funny clothes. our funny language. our funny food. we wanted the whole world to come and join and be like us.
it was a fantasy.

now, i crave to be with creatures that can't fake what they are.
my cats. my plants. the weather. building things and painting fences and sewing things. i live in a twn famous for its fakery and for its supposed 'reality'. los angeles. movies and gangstas. i revile both illusions. i see right to their core and go back to my hobbies. all the locals who are trying so hard to be gorgeous and beautiful and hip and sexy have about as much substance as a fake movie prop window made of sugar water. and the tough, cruel, violent,frightening ,swaggering gangstas have it wrong too. theyre missing out. whitey's dream isn't real but neither is their counter response to it. it's another illusion. another put on. another mask. another pretense.

and i know. i can see it. idon't believe the hype. I am what i am and i didn't come here to be anybody else's idea of how i should be.
i really dont care if the person next to me likes me or not. is that shocking? maybe this is what the pupa feels like when it gets too big for its shell and bursts out. or the sprout or the old tree when it cracks the concrete and pushes up into open air. its too damn bad i broke it, but i just couldnt stay in there any longer. the space was too smal and i am growing too fast to fit in there anymore. i couldnt live there any longer. I'm just too big.

i guess you could say, my tears burst my damns. but the barricades were artifical to begin with, weren' they?

apocryphal story from today in real life:

a storm blew in today, hours earlier than anticipated. down in the yard, my friend mark has been living in a tent till he can find an apt to rent. we put it up in summer, but as time went on and he didnt find a place, he added walls to it with tarps and string and clothespins to make it more for the rainy winter.
it near;y blew down in the last storm we had, the blasts tore open the sides and shook it, and he raced around roaring at the sky as he battened it down and fortified it and saved it.

but today he was not here. he was indoors, with other buddies. the rains started gentle. but then it pcked up and got nasty. the wind came on, building. he had let another homeless friend have the use of the place while he was away, and that guy had spent all last night completely redoing the place, nicer, cleaner, homier, safer and saner.
he too, was upstair s with us when the winds rose.
he ran out to try to save his llittle place. my son ran out to join him to help. i debated from my upstairs window until crisis was upon them.
they were screaming that the poles were bending and threatening to break. the wind was bending the tent this way and that. the phone rang and it was mark, wanting to know if his place was ok and if he should come back. in the moments while he was talking, it became clear that he better, if he cared about his stuff. and i saw that i had to get out there and help because the boys werent seeing what i was seeing.
staying dry was a futile ploy. so i discarded the raincoat and boots idea and went the other way:stripped to my skin and put on a bathing suit and grabbed my penknife and ran out there.
I'm fat, my lard will just keep me warm while i work.
the boys were trying in vain to save everything in the tent: TV, radio, lamp, papers, candles, while the wind rocked the house.
I set about cutting loose the walls, which wer acting like sails bellying out in the wind. these were the same sails/tarps i myself had strung up after the last storm. slashing the string and ropes loose, I labored to free them so the wind would have nothing to push against, undoing all my sturdy careful work of a few weeks back. all the while i was ruefully noting to myself how survival required the exact opposite tactic that we tried the last time. the wind seemed to be alive, gleefully trmenting us looking for ways to get at us and take away the tent if it could.wherever it attempted to pick up the tent and strain it, I stepped to the spot and cut the ties, denying it purchase and force. i was screaming at the boys to reverse strategy, to open it up and give it no resistance, so it could blast through and find nothing to knock over.
my son seemed to be sleepwalking. i had to get all military on him and shout 'move it! fastfastfastfast! nownownownownow!!! stay WITH me! no! HERE! right NEXT to me!' and he complaine'youre' so pushy!' I roared over the storm'you wanna fight? you wanna get pushed? lets do it. c'mon. push me! lets see what you got!' and i was truly goading him to see if i could rile him, knowing a jolt of adrenaline would definitely get things moving faster.
we tied guy wires out the the trees. they ran loose stuff across theyard into the other tent. i tore away the tarps and opened out the sides till there was nothing left for the wind to tear at.
mark arrived on a bike, soaked and adrenalized, shouting something about 'horatio hornblower' to the sky. i think it was a jibe at me, but i didnt have time to find out. by then all that was left was his bed and some bare tables. we stretched a tarp over the bed and i screamed to tuck the thing under like sheets, not leave anything out for the wind to get under. i threw tables on top to weight it down. and suddenly, we had robbed the storm of its power. nothing it did made a difference. instead of protecting and shielding everything, trying to keep it hidden and to ourselves, we had done the opposite: we laid it open till there was nothing left to tear away. and at the same moment without conference, mark and i both raised our defiant voices to the storm and bellowed' is THAT all you got???? whatsa matter??? can't find anything to destroy????? let's see you do it!!! come on!!! I'm right here!! give it to me, you bastard!!!'

and the wind seemed to poke around us, tenatively, like a dog, sniffing for some prey that was no longer there, and gave up, to look elsewhere for someone else to harass.
we cleaned up some odds and ends, looked about, and went upstairs.
i reflected on the drastic measures that saved us, while drawing a hot bath in my bathing suit.
i thought about the literal cutting of the ties, that deprived the enemy of its greatest weapons.
i thought about the contrast between trying to hold onto things to save them, and opening them up wide so there was nothing to hide. I thought about the futility of trying to put on protective gear to stay dry before going out, thus losing time and doubtless getting wet anyway, versus my statement as i stripped to the skin and put on my bathing suit 'I'm waterproof. fuck it.'
the only thing that got cold, it turned out, was my head. so next time, i'll know to put on a wool cap or a bathing cap, to keep the top of my head hot. my fat did indeed keep me warm.
i got all the cats into the house, warm, dry and safe. put on the kettle, wrapped up in towels and ordered everybody to take a hot bath, me first.

you live, you learn.

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Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 03:39:34 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I dont know what to say :)) [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2001 at 11:20:06 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: And the Jack Kerouac Award goes to...
Message:

... Janet for 'Militaristic Genius Hippie Mom Does Venice'.

Quite a tear you're on there good lady. I'm not sure I'd advise you doing it stand-up on the street corner but definitely get those words down on paper or pixels for future use. You live you learn, indeed.

Richard, who begged his shrink, to no avail, for happy meds to take away the 911-induced PSTD anxiety and now is mining emotions like they were gold nuggets

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