Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 00:26:11 (GMT) From: Curious George Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Monica Lewis theory or fact? Message:

Dear Michael, Did you know anything about Monika Lewis? Was she/Is she his mistress? Did she go on tour with him sometimes as previously mentioned by another ex? Are there any other women that were/are sexualy abused by M through his abuse of power? Enquiring minds like mine want to know! I deserve to know after devoting myself to this creep for 30 years. Thanks Michael, Regards, Curious George

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:05:40 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: interesting as usual, and a few more questions Message:

like Rick, I thought the Guru trying to get you to smoke again was the most interesting thing. One thing I really enjoy about your posts is the opportunity they give one to see Rawat 'behind the curtain'. There are a lot of things I have always been curious about you have answered. If you and I were say, discussing this over dinner, I would have a lot more questions, here are a few, not in order of importance: Is your sense that Marolyn ever doubts the devotional trip? What is your view of her? What on earth do his kids think about all of it? I suppose they were still kids when you left though. Could you sort of describe a typical day for the guru when you were around? We all know he has a very jet set ( jet included ) lifestyle. What are some of the details of the way he lives and is waited on ( or was in your day ). When Rawat interacts with non premies who also have a lot of money, do you think he is threatened by people who have more than he does? Do you think he has any sense of shame about the way he has come to be so wealthy? I get this sense he judges a person's value by how much they have. I have this sense that he is threatened by people with more money and more education than he has. Any truth in this? Did you observe any use of drugs besides marijuana and alchohol? Do you think Raja Ji believes in the scam or is it the 'family business'? Did Rawat ever use his postion as Lord of the Universe to obtain sexual favors as is rumoured? How do you think Rawat views the rights of other people and what is the worth of other people? Any difference in how he treats premies and non premies? I was interested in the threats to replace the PAMs with all the premies waiting in the wings to replace them. Bizarre, and so true, we were all waiting to replace them. Anything else like that, that sort of thing, like the wanting you to smoke and those threats, things that really flush out his character. Thanks Michael!

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 14:15:36 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: Susan Subject: interesting as usual, and a few more questions Message:

Susan, Very thoughtful questions. I, like many others look forward to Michael's response. A look behind the scenes is therapeutic to say the least. One thing though.. Not all of us were waiting to 'take their place'. Some saw through the inner circle, high school clique, Communist politburo, bastion mentality. We took the method, paid VERY close attention to what was being said, did the internal work and benefited as advertized. One voice was heard...but still we pray for closure. Blue Max

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 16:31:38 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Blue Max Subject: very true Message:

You are right, I knew a lot of people who did not aspire to be PAMs the way I did. I stand corrected and I admire that you were not playing the game back then.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 23:35:58 (GMT) From: Blue Max Email: None To: Susan Subject: very true Message:

Susan, It was painful to go against the prevailing winds at that time, being rather young like most of us were. I was a natural rebel in college and when I detected the politburo high school model, I railed against it anywhere I encountered it. Coupled with some very intense LSD sessions using the Tibetan Book of the Dead as a reference, I barreled into Knowledge and focused on the process and results. What Maharaji did or does makes no difference to me. He was, and remains, a signpost with his own dragons and skeletons to answer for. His biggest mistake in my opinion was in setting up the ashrams the way he did. Most folks were not ready for what was required, being westerners in nature and temperment. He should have done it JUST for those who wanted to be initiators. That's an opinion only, open for discussion. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on that subject. I got my own dragons to deal with...and the weaponry to do it. That I AM grateful for. Blue Max

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 04:19:28 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Susan +Michael Dettmers Subject: Monica Lewis, April Gillam, bimbo eruptions? nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:51:38 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Michael Subject: Jonestown Remembered and Ultimate Responsibility Message:

Yesterday was the 22nd anniversary of the mass suicide in Jonestown, Guyana, as well as the killing of Congressman Leo Ryan, who bravely went to Guyana to investigate charges that Peoples Temple members were being held there against their will. Every year, there is a memorial service in Oakland at the mass grave where most of the Peoples Temple members were buried after their bodies were brought back from Guyana. Every time I read one of Michael's posts about how Maharaji really behaved, how he really treated those closest to him, and how those with special access to Maharaji behaved, I see the shadows of Peoples Temple. Some of you may get tired of this comparison, but it is very important to grasp the significance of this connection. Peoples Temple represents the absolute worst situation that could occur as a result of unquestioning devotion to a charismatic leader and the ideals s/he promotes. I lived in San Francisco during the time that Peoples Temple was a political force in this city. PT carried out the kinds of political and social activism that many of us had hoped DUO would. PT fed the hungry, gave shelter to the poor and elderly, provided free medical care to those in need, and created a truly multi-cultural church community with a progressive political agenda. By all outward appearances, PT was a progressive, multi-ethnic community which was practicing what it preached. But in the early '70's, the same kinds of behavior emerged within the hierarchy of PT and those close to Jim Jones as exists around Maharaji, as described by Michael. At this point, Jones was 'Father' to the PT members -- the functional equivalent of the Lord of the Universe. Those close to him knew that he was carrying out fake healings of the sick (in fact, they assisted in the charade); they knew he had sexual relationships with several women who were in high church positions, even though he was married and had 5 children and his wife was a revered figure in the church; they knew he was abusing alcohol and prescription drugs; they knew that he had faked an incident where it appeared he had been shot in the chest only to miraculously recover -- proving his divinity. These people around Jones also competed for their special place in his inner circle, even though what they witnessed showed that Jones's life was completely at odds with what he was preaching to his congregation. In their myopic desire to be close to their perceived God --to be the Archangel Michael -- they lost all perception of what was really happening in their community. They too were worked til exhaustion, too tired to question the wisdom of their position and pursuit. Had the people around Jim Jones paused to consider the dichotomy between Jones' preachings and his behavior, they might have been a small cog that stopped the exodus to Guyana and the loss of so much precious life. M's behavior is totally at odds with his teachings. Those around him know that, painfully so, it seems. I am absolutely appalled that people put up with abusive behavior by a confused alcoholic in the seeming pursuit of perfection. It ain't perfection. IT IS ABUSE. You do not need or deserve it, and anyone who suggests otherwise is horribly misguided. Those close to M who have left the fold and who know this information have a responsibility to come forward and give this information to us. Don't misunderstand me -- I am not making a demand upon anyone. I make this request in the hopes that some of the other PAMS with whom Michael is in touch might come forward, because I believe their posts may truly help change the course of otherwise lost lives. Your contributions could help heal some of the damage that has been done by M. This would be a truly selfless act. Please share your experiences with us. You too will be liberated in the end, I am certain. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 16:50:17 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Marianne Subject: A question Message:

Dear Marianne, Can you identify a turning point, in relation to the PT, where Jim Jones 'lost it'? Jim Jones seems to have facilitated alot of good works and it appears that for a time he was sincere. Not to say that there wasn't something 'off' about him from the start. I don't know whether there was or wasn't. I wonder if there was an identifying event or factor that pushed Jones over the edge. A point at which Jones transformed from Reverand to delusional maniac. I would speculate it was not the murder of the senator and his investigative party because there had already been talk of suicide in Guyana. From what I know, once Jonestown was established his church had already gone too far and Jones had at that time crossed the line. I do wonder if M lost his love for toys, life and control to what level he would sink to. Do you see the same potential within M to enact something similar? Just curious.

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 17:38:14 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Jones lost it bec. of Ex-PT members Message:

Tonette: Great question. Such a great question that I am going to start a thread and talk about this connection. Jones really started to go downhill because of the activities and publicity generated by ex-PT members about how he was really behaving. Take some antacids down there in Malibu! Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 21:50:28 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Jones lost it bec. of Ex-PT members Message:

Omigod, Marianne! (And I agree, great question by Tonette). Let's just hope that Maharaji feels he had a lot to lose by 'losing it' - aaagh!

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 15:12:08 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Katie Subject: Better be safe than sorry Message:

Hope you have insurance Katie.

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 17:56:47 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Thanks for the answer. Message:

I hope you do start a thread along this topic. You're a wonderful writer. I do worry though that the tread has the potential to become downright paranoid. Oh well if it does. Your answer surprised me. I had no idea. Thanks again-Tonette

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 21:51:49 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hear , Hear nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:50:54 (GMT) From: sam Email: - To: Marianne Subject: thank you, thank you , Marianne. ( NT) Message:

and thanks again u wonderful thing

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 05:27:19 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Marianne Subject: another great post Marianne (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 02:54:22 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Question. Message:

Michael, Thank you for being an inspiration. You probably noticed the effect of what you are saying on some of the premies. You wrote, Maharaji’s excessive drinking and his profligate spending as well as his abusive behavior especially when he was drunk led me to the conclusion that he did not care about his life or his work Commenting on what you say I want to focus in particular on he did not care about his life or his work I find this hard to digest and confusing. If a person is an alcoholic and does not care about his work and his life, would not you say that it would show on his person in one way or another? Things like having a half shaven beard, not caring about his appearance or letting his business run down. (I am sure you understand what I am getting at). OK, I haven’t been close to the fellow, so I don’t know anything about his day to day activity. From what I’ve seen of him, he never conveyed that image. He always looked like he knew what he wanted and where he was going. How can such a person persist in doing what he did for so long without getting bored or fed up? What is driving him to continue? I understand that one of the prerequisites to doing a job or working for one’s self is to enjoy it first. If what you saying are true, then what is the answer? Can greed explain it?

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 02:48:49 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Salam Subject: Answer Message:

Salam, First, let me emphasize that what I said is simply my opinion but here is what I base it on. I have been around many CEO’s of major corporations as well as smaller entrepreneurial ventures. These are people who are passionate about what they do and they put their heart and souls into it. They are constantly traveling, attending meetings, addressing shareholders, dealing with employee and organizational issues all to further their missions. Just take the recent (although still undecided) US Presidential election as a case in point. Serious politicking for the presidency began with the primaries in February culminating with each party nominating its candidate at their conventions in July and August. Then followed exhausting campaigns that had the candidates addressing crowds and town meetings at the rate of 5 or 6 per day, 7 days a week, right up until election day. Why did they do it? They did it because they are serious in their quest to become president and, under our current system, that is what it takes. Now, I am willing to bet that most premies would say that Maharaji’s mission is far more important to the world than the missions of business people and politicians. Yet, when I compare the work ethic of these people to the Maharaji I served, it is impossible to conclude that he cared about his work. In the end, I concluded that he was just plain lazy. I experienced the same frustration that Bob Mishler faced over this issue. I kept wondering when he was going to roll up his sleeves and get serious about his work. When was he going to get down off the throne and start connecting and relating with the rest of the human race he delusionally thought he was here to save? When was he going to engage with people in real dialogue instead of pontificating from on high? Believe me, I was ready to do my part. Instead, I spent a good deal of my time organizing the financing and acquisition of his ever growing collection of watches, his fleet of expensive automobiles, his palatial residences, and his helicopter and planes. After a while, I concluded that there was a strong correlation between his failing mission and the fact that he was slightly inebriated, if not out-and-out drunk, five out of seven days of every week for years on end. To me this was the behavior of a man who did not care about his work. Given the exalted status in which he held himself and his obvious inability to live up to that status, I concluded that he did not care about his life. When the dissonance became too great, he numbed the pain with booze and the acquisition of more toys. Is this behavior greed or an addiction or both? I don’t know or care. What ever it is, it is inexcusable in one who claims to offer the key to happiness, and anybody who supports it is a fool. I should know, I was a fool for much too long. Michael PS: Susan, Curious George and Cynthia I will address your questions sometime this week.

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 06:14:06 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Just an aside Message:

Michael Forgive me if I jump in here a second I just wanted to catch your eye and say how much I appreciate your posting here. If you read my initial post above under name of 'a wavering premie' and the letter I emailed to maharaji, you'll see that you were instrumental in giving me the strength to make that leap. So please keep it up, your efforts are definitly not in vain. sincerely Barry Shaw ps what do you think are chances he'll reply?

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 12:17:24 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Bazza Subject: Just an aside Message:

Barry, Congratulations on your decision. You have absolutely nothing to fear and I am very gratified that I was able to play a part in helping you come to it. I think the chances of getting a reply to your e-mail from Maharaji are zero. He cannot respond to anyone who sincerely questions him. For him, that would be like opening Pandora's box and he knows it. His non-response is not a dignified silence, however. It is the fear that his whole charade would unravel. All the best, Michael

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Date: Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 00:57:03 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Thanks for the reply, You're a champion..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 05:54:16 (GMT) From: Buzz Email: None To: Salam Subject: Question. Message:

How can such a person persist in doing what he did for so long without getting bored or fed up? What is driving him to continue? Good point Salam.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 05:58:54 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Buzz Subject: Answer Message:

Greed.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:28:04 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Salam Subject: Question. Message:

Hi Salam - I am sure Michael will have more to say about this, but it's been my impression that Maharaji feels that he HAS to do this because he is fufilling his duty to his father. And if he doesn't really want to do it, then even the money would not be enough to satisfy him - thus the drinking and requests for even MORE money, etc. Of course, I'm sure by now he has realized he couldn't make near as much money doing anything else. But I still think the excessive responsibility that was laid on him when he was a child is a big factor. Take care - Katie

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 23:48:39 (GMT) From: Rick Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: My responses to la-ex Message:

Thanks for the further information, Michael. The repeated offerings of cigarettes from maharaji is particularly weird.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 22:09:03 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: Michael Dettmers Subject: My responses to la-ex Message:

Hi Michael thanx for your openness,I think this info is so important even if it were to free only one person. That the man clearly doesn't follow his own prescription is surely a clinching argument especially after the thousands of hours of harangue about the beauty and efficacy of his 'product' ,which by the way is no more his than anyone else's

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