Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 15:13:00 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Rawat and these women Message:

the emotional devastation that Rawat inviting devotees to sleep with him and then cutting them off would wreak is trememndous. How do you say 'no' to the Perfect Master ( the maker of all things created ? ). This really shows how ugle a person he is, and how uncaring. To use his 'devotees' as a sexual outlet and then cut off his 'special attention'. How would those women be able to ever proccess what happened to them? Disgusting.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:32:00 (GMT) From: Thank Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: You for your honesty-nt Message:

sfg

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:57:47 (GMT) From: Brutus Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Did you add 'PIMP' career on your CV, Michael?(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:18:22 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Brutus Subject: brutus aint gerry, btw Message:

I sign my rants and I'm over it.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 20:06:06 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: gerry Subject: brutus aint gerry, btw Message:

Sounds like BJORN to me. What do you think, ger? Marianne

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 09:02:24 (GMT) From: This 1997 email I got .. Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: from a premie friend, is probably is true then... Message:

Sat, Apr 19, 1997 It's not a well-guarded secret that Maharaji likes a drink or two now and then. Apparently his poison is Scotch though I can't say with any certainty whether he prefers a single malt or a blend. Sometimes he feels it necessary to dry out and so requests that no tempting bottles be stocked where he is staying. He also regularly smokes cigarettes (brand unknown). On the subject of affairs, he has a long term mistress by the name of Monica Lewis. A couple of years ago she put the squeeze on Maharaji, saying he'd better leave Marolyn for her permanently or she'd blow the whistle. A damage control squad was able to talk her out of her despondent threats and, the abortion notwithstanding, she seems content with her Number two woman role. Of course she's not allowed in close proximity to Maharaji when Marolyn's around. As for affairs, Maharaji's intended conquests are solicited surrepticiously by Patrick (his personal assistant). It is suggested to them that Maharaji would like to meet them in a hotel room. This allows for plausible deniability should there be the slightest misunderstanding. In this category there are, at last count, about a dozen predominantly blonde-haired gopis. They seem to be dutifully silent about their experiences. All this is nothing out of the ordinary for a charismatic powerful needy fellow.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 18:24:43 (GMT) From: add to best of forum? Email: None To: This 1997 email I got .. Subject: seems like it fits in with the MD section-nt Message:

sdfg

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 00:47:55 (GMT) From: Joe Email: joger02@aol.com To: Michael Dettmers Subject: My response to Joe and others Message:

Thank you, Michael. It's great that this can come out in the open. I have heard generally that Maharaji had a fairly crude and offensive sense of humor at times. I suppose it didn't help that no one around him was about to tell him what an insensitive jerk he is and to tell him that he or she was offended. Even when Dennis told me about the offensive jokes, he seemed mildly embarrassed. And I guess it was only a matter of time before Maharaji realized that premies, who adored and worshipped him, and/or believed he was the incarnation of god, were readily available sexual objects for him to play with. This has been a typical behavior of others in his position. Unfortunately, it's the followers who end up getting hurt. The fact that he engaged in sexual affairs with his followers is damning enough, (as well as reckless and stupid), but the fact that he would then blow someone off and go onto the next victim is appalling, but right in line with his self-centeredness and magalomania. What a creep. Have you ever heard of any of the women Maharaji had sexual affairs with suing him, or demanding a settlement to keep quiet? Also, is it true, as I have heard, that Maharaji prefers blondes? The more I hear, the more embarrassing it is to think about the fact that I once followed somebody who is such a jerk.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 00:57:13 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Joe Subject: My response to Joe and others Message:

Joe, I don't know of any law suits or settlement agreements but, then again, I haven't been around for a long time. The evidence suggests that he prefers blondes. Michael

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 01:06:41 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Wow, what a weird position to be in..... Message:

What could you possibly say to a premie who had had a sexual affair with Maharaji, who had come to you because Maharaji wouldn't talk to her? Did you tell them to remember holy name? (Just kidding.) What an appalling situation to be in? What happened to the women who got used and then ignored by Maharaji? Did any of them leave the cult? Did any end up in mental institutions? I'm serious. I personally can't imagine, given the programming we all had about who Maharaji was supposed to be, that it wouldn't hugely mess up your your self-esteem, and even your sanity to go through something like that. You say that Maharaji had a double standard when it came to his marriage, that it was okay for him to have affairs, but not Marolyn. To your knowledge, did Marolyn ever assert herself about this? If the Monica Lewis affair we have all heard about is continuing, I assume Marolyn has resigned herself to it. Do you know if Maharaji's kids know about this? Do you know if these affairs have caused premies to question their involvement with Maharaji?

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 01:39:28 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Joe Subject: Wow, what a weird position to be in..... Message:

Joe, Of the three women I referred to, I can't honestly remember what I told them. I remained respectful and sensitive to their concerns, however, and they knew they could contact me if they needed to do so. To my knowledge, none of them ended up in mental institutions and I don't know if any of them eventually left the cult. I have no knowledge about the consequences, if any, regarding Maharaji's numerous other affairs. I have no idea what or if Marolyn or the kids think or know about Maharaji's affair with Monica. Michael

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 03:34:29 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Sexual exploitation: Jim Jones and M Message:

Michael: Once again, I am horrified to read about M's behavior towards premies. And once again, M's behavior mirrors that of Jim Jones. Jones was married throughout the time he headed Peoples Temple. He had 5 children. His wife was a revered and highly respected member of the community. They were often referred to as Father and Mother. Although my memory is hazy about exactly when it began to occur, Jones had lovers in the PT community for about the last 15 years of its existence. He fathered a child by one of the members -- Grace Stoen. Grace was married at the time too. There were several other women in high church positions who were also his lovers. He felt it was his perogative to have sex with whomever he wanted. And given that the PT members thought he was God, they were not inclined to resist his advances, even if they were not interested. The affairs were common knowledge among PT members and were a source of great pain to Jones' wife. These relationships fall into the category of sexual exploitation. When you begin to see that M's behavior is so similar to that of the worst case cult leader, you have to start wondering about M too. Marianne

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:15:39 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Exactly! Sikh,Sikh,Sikh! This is TOO much! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 17:35:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: That reminds me of a conversation I had Message:

in 1996 with a devoted premies, some time before I left ... I knew about m's affairs and Monica's role, and we were discussing the issue. She would say she wasn't shocked by this, and that if she'd had a chance to have an affair with m, she'd be delighted to. I had a hard time understanding her opinion, and to realize how badly she was fucked up in her own personal relationships. That was one of the thing that helped me to realize I really was involved in something wrong.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 17:29:29 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Sexual exploitation: The way of the world Message:

Marianne, As many married couples do after 20 years or so of marriage, my wife and I have gone to a counselor to try to work out some kinks in our relationship. We are both at that 'change-o-life age', she is gearing up to go out and work full-time now that the kids are older and more capable to taking care of themselves, and I am facing career choices that are more and more limited as the years tick by, so I am searching out ways to be self-employed. Real life stuff with real life consequences. The counselor we see is a guy who has a yang-yin symbol on his card, claims to be using Buddhist-related methods, so we both felt comfortable with him. So anyway, this mellow Buddhist counselor and I were talking the other day on the phone. I never used to ask others for personal advice before this, only now that my wife says we need counseling have I resorted to talking to others about very personal things. I have found that most counselors have more problems than I do.. And here is the punchline to this post: The counselor, the person we went to for marriage counseling, says to me that I ought to find a girlfriend on the side! This is not an option in my repitoire,I am just not made that way. Hence, the way of the world. When a marriage counselor advises clients to seek outside sexual and/or romantic diversion, what has civilization come to? What happened to 'thou shalt not commit adultery'? What happened to the New Testament guidance that adultery is the only legitimate reason for divorce? (I would imagine that extreme abuse would fit into that definition too). This is my life, or a big part of it. Maybe you and I are just old fashioned fuddy-duddies, eh Marianne? Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:12:15 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: shp Subject: Sexual exploitation: The way of the world Message:

Just had to pop in and read this thread. Sandy, A lot of therapists are unethical, sounds like you ran into one! How having an affair would make your relationship with your wife better (which was the reason you went into therapy) is beyond me. That's pretty nuts. My husband is a marriage and family therapist and rule one is that people have to honor their agreements. If the agreement is to be monogamous, no lovers on the side--period! It's pretty sick reading that M is into 'doing' premie women (to use a Dr. Laura term). Michael Dettmers is a veritable font of information, all very good in seeing M for what he is.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 10:36:18 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: shp Subject: Your counselor Message:

Hi Sandy, It sounds to me like your counselor is a bit of a jerk. Telling you to go out and have an affair doesn't seem like good advice. Did he give the same advice to your wife? How does she feel about it all? I'd cash him in for a christian counselor if I were you. Anth the pagan

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:39:52 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Counseling session Message:

Yep, he said to take two before bed and call him in the morning. That's a joke, but not far from the truth. I had called him on a particularly frustrating day and his response was something like 'sounds like what you need is a girlfriend!', with a sort of half laugh.... Shit man, I don't care how many men do it, I know there is such a thing as marriage, that it is a sacred bond, and that it is possible to attain such a relationship with each partner being like one of those paisleys in the yang-yin symbol, in total harmony on all levels. If people could just get laid whenever they wanted to by whoever they wanted, like some folks we know, there would probably be less war in the world. But there would also probably be more dysfunctional kids running around confused and growing up to perpetuate the cycle, and what would ensue would, I think, be worse than nationalistic wars. There must be another way to 'spread peace in the world'.... Sandy the Happy Peaceful Warrior

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:54:31 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: shp Subject: Another old fashioned fuddy-duddy Message:

Hi Sandy, I agree that many counselors have their own problems. Did you ever tell him about your reaction to his suggestion? I don't think that you have to feel passive in your interaction. Maybe he was wondering if you just needed to know that taking that option might be ok in some situations. I guess that's what you're objecting to. But you didn't give us the context of his suggestion - a lot of people project, and perhaps that's what your counselor is doing. I've always enjoyed the 'sounding board' aspect of a counselor and their 'objectivity'. They are usually people who have their own subjectivities too though, IMO. What matters is your choice, not their advice. But you know that. Anna

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:08:12 (GMT) From: sh[ Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Another old fashioned fuddy-duddy Message:

It's an oxymoron situation, Anna. A marriage counselor advising someone who has come to him in need of marriage counseling, and the advise, or sounding, is completely contradictory to the marriage agreement....oh, how modern and 21st century! But it is bullshit. I think our insides knows it.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:18:32 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: shp Subject: Another old fashioned fuddy-duddy Message:

I've never been married, nor had children, and I don't know what your situation is, nor what your counselor knows about your situation. An awkward sentence, but I'm sure you'll understand.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 14:43:25 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Stonor Subject: You don't need a weatherman Message:

to know which way the wind blows.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 19:22:25 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: shp Subject: Counselors are not supposed to give out advice... Message:

Hi Sandy, I worries my that any therapist would advise you to do anything, especially to have an extra-marital affair. I've been through a lot of therapists throughout the years and have learned one thing: they are not supposed to give advice, but to assist you in whatever problem/difficulty you may be having, be it marital, emotional, etc. One of my sisters had a therapist tell her (because she was so depressed) that maybe she should attempt suicide!! There's a lot of very good practioners out there, but there's also a pack of roving assholes who call themselves counselors. Be careful--and remember anyone you see is your employee, therefore, you can hire them and fire them. Be well, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 17:53:42 (GMT) From: Liz Email: None To: shp Subject: Authenticity and accountability Message:

Dear Sandy, Yes, the world is getting crazier in my opinion - or at least people in it. I want you to know that you are doing the right and authentic thing. Be true to yourself and your wife if you want to stay in an authentic and happy relationship. More power to you and your wife and family, Liz

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:23:10 (GMT) From: sucha Email: None To: Liz Subject: Dump that counselor, Sandy. That's too weird! (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 00:01:16 (GMT) From: jondon Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: My response to Joe and others Message:

I believe that M is gay, or at least has experimented. He that doth protest too much....

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 00:48:53 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: jondon Subject: No way. Message:

Experimentation, maybe. But he is such a huge jerk that I don't want him on my team, if you know what I mean. ::))

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 15:41:38 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Joe Subject: No way. Message:

Joe: I have a hunch there are plenty of jerks on both teams. What we need is a reliable 'Jerk Alert.' :-) --Scott

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