Abi -:- Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:31:47 (EDT)

__ Dermot -:- Abi -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 23:17:59 (EDT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- To: Dermot :) -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:12:37 (EDT)

__ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: To: Cynthia :) -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:56:59 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- there is a lot about Jagdeo in the link here too -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 22:07:10 (EDT)

__ Cynthia -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 20:29:08 (EDT)

__ Peter Howie -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 20:04:03 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- Hi Abi, I'm glad you're back here -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 18:36:02 (EDT)

__ cq -:- Re: Fragmentation ... and integration -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:34:35 (EDT)

__ __ cq -:- PS, Abi -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:41:54 (EDT)

__ Steve Quint -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 13:01:43 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- you are so brave Abi -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 12:34:25 (EDT)

__ AJW -:- Captain Rawat and the Pervert. -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 11:19:28 (EDT)

__ btdt -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 09:12:38 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:20:32 (EDT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 06:56:30 (EDT)

__ Tonette -:- Sickened, disgusted and deeply saddened -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:30:12 (EDT)

__ salam -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 00:05:47 (EDT)

__ Timmi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:45:12 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:33:28 (EDT)

__ PatD -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:27:39 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:37:52 (EDT)

__ hamzen -:- You are one courageous woman Abi -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:48:59 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: You are one courageous woman Abi -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:12:31 (EDT)

__ Disculta -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:39:40 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:41:58 (EDT)

__ Patrick Wilson -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:28:38 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:45:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ A Friend -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 00:32:21 (EDT)

__ such -:- scary stuff;like Freddie Krueger - only real! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:54:09 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- thanks Such -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:46:57 (EDT)

__ Helen -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:28:39 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:48:58 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- Speechless -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:22:22 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Speechless -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:51:24 (EDT)

__ Tim G -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:22:08 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:54:11 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Abi. I needed to hear that. -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:56:59 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- thanks Pat -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:57:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I wish I knew you. I know I'd like you. -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:37:19 (EDT)

__ Francesca -:- ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:48:57 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- I am free! -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:14:29 (EDT)

__ __ Chuck S. -:- Re: ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:20:50 (EDT)

__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:17:08 (EDT)

__ Selene -:- Re: Fragmentation -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:59:04 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- hope you write them out -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:04:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ Peg -:- Dear Abi -:- Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 03:55:32 (EDT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- self pity as a trap -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:50:34 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Holy ................................. -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:50:17 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- yes, my dad... -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:01:51 (EDT)

__ __ berni -:- Abi you are wonderful -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:37:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ Abi -:- thanks berni -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ magiclara -:- Well done Abi -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:48:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Abi -:- thanks to you -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:06:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ bill -:- How traumatic--still -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:53:49 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: How traumatic--still -:- Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:09:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Re: How traumatic--still -:- Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:55:55 (EDT)

Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:31:47 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fragmentation
Message:

I've got a lung disease which came on a few weeks after I met with Dr Pascotto in April and I don't give a fuck anymore. This is what Jagdeo did to me. I don't want sympathy I just want it to be known.

I was about nine. '76. We had moved out of Wringford Manor because Unity School had very recently closed down. We were living in Cawsand, a nearby village by the sea. We'd go up to Wringford and have satsang a lot. I was totally into satsang and thought that Rawat was God. I dreampt about him all the time. My father would put on satasng tapes of 'Durga Ji' and 'Maharaji' at night so that we could benefit from it as we fell asleep.

Jagdeo arrived and everyone was very excited because he was such a high soul, such an important Mahatma. The whole community felt blessed. One day soon after he arrived he asked for the premies children to visit him in his room. Me and my two brothers Ivan and Josh, two girls and another boy all went into his room. We were escorted there by a woman with long hair. I have forgotten her name. He was dressed in the white robes that they wore then. He was very nice to us at first and showed us some Indian food he'd had brought up. It was on a low table. His room was at the top of the stairs to the left and overlooked the swimming pool and the lawn there. It was a very special room. A Mahatma room.

He said that he loved being with children so much because they were pure and that he missed his own children in India. We felt sorry for him. He asked us a few inane questions, what our names were, how old we were, if we wanted to get Knowledge. We all said yes of course. I was especially keen. I was the oldest. The youngest was about five years old. Then he told us that he wanted to play a special game with us all and we had to lie on the floor in a circle and he would stand in the middle. So we did. You don't argue with a Holy Man when you are a child in a cult.

Then he went from child to child and rubbed himself up against us. This became more frenetic. He told us that we weren't allowed to look at what he was doing. That we had to shut out eyes. When he got to me he had an erection. He squashed it onto me and I feel suffocated and scared. He was breathing quite heavily. The five year old girl was nearest the door. He really got stuck into her. Both my brother Ivan and I saw this. There was a struggle. As Ivan said years later, 'something very heavy went down in that room'. I asked him how he felt after it and he said he was much more withdrawn after that.

Jagdeo then got up and stood in the middle of the room again. This time, he told us, we had to ask him to squash us. That was the new game. Several of the others asked him to squash them but he ignored them and focused on me. He told me to ask loudly so I did. I felt very freaked out by this. He got down on me again and really started groping and rubbing himself. Then he got up and told the others to leave the room. I had to stay on the floor.

I will never forget the feelings I had when they all left. It was pure terror but I felt totally helpless.

After they left he told me to take off all my clothes because they were Mind. I said I was shy and he told me to do it again so I did. Then he made me lie down and he raped me. He put his hand over my mouth to stop me screaming. There was a photo of Rawat on the wall opposite me and at some point I just prayed so hard for protection that I left my body and went into the photo. I fragmented. I dissociated. I got out of my body and my mind splintered. Someone knocked on the door to see if everything was alright and he told her to go away. I wished she'd opened the door. I remember feeling as though I was being stuffed and suffocated and a horrible smell. But worst of all were his eyes. One of his eyes was much smaller than the other. He was like a real monster. I don't really remember much else, how I dressed or how I got home. I went into myself.

The next day he asked to see me again, I was really terrified. He said he was going to teach me how to play chess. He would be the white ones and I would be the black ones. Because I was Mind and he was at one with Maharaji. He told me that he would always win because he was on Maharaji's side. How true. I was scared of him. I asked to go to the toilet and I was shaking and sweating. My hands were sweating and I just kept of praying to Maharaji for protection. When I came back I saw some premies sitting on the lawn down below the window and I wanted to shout to them for help but I knew that they wouldn't understand what it was that I wanted to say. I hardly knew myself. I just wanted to get away. The same thing happend as before, just like it did after the others had left. I don't think I put up much of a struggle.

I told my brother and he tried to tell my Mum. It was in the parking lot outside the house. I'd whispered to him in the car that Jagdeo was creepy. I didn't know how to speak it. We thought that babies came from stalks. She didn't hear what he said because it was a difficult thing to hear about a Mahatma.

After that I started getting nightmares. They were so bad that I would punch the wall next to my bed in the night so hard that I would wake up with bleeding knuckles. I screamed so loudly that I would wake up with a sore throat. I had nightmares about a smooth long thing. I think I was sick for a while. I was full of terror and turned to 'Maharaji' for comfort.I developed an imaginary relationship with him. he could hear my every thought, see everything I did, he was the whole world, every leaf on every tree. He was a seagull flying above me. If anything nice ever happened to me it was By His Grace. If anything bad ever happened to me it was By His Grace. My parents eventually got a bit annoyed about the nightmares. They'd tell me to shut up. I'd wake them up. I screamed out night after night and for years later well into my 20s 'Stop it! Go away!'

My teachers at the primary school were decent people. They were concerned that we were all in a cult. We eat at a separate table, called the 'vegetarian table'. The headmaster Mr Bridge asked me questions about the cult. He gave me a lot of support and encouraged me to do well. We were all totally cult children, especially me. I was a fanatic. I'd tell kids at the school that my real father had lots of cars and planes. That he was very rich and was going to spread peace to the world. Most of them thought we were freaks. We moved to another village where most of the premies lived. I went to satsang as much as possible. I was always the one my parents took to festivals. I was a very pure devotee and all I wanted to do was get Knowledge and be an iniator. I got Knowledge when I was 13. I meditated for an hour before school, on the school bus, I organised satasng with the others premie kids at school, I had photso fo GMJ on my books, I meditated for an hour at night.

When Elan Vital flew me to Brisbane via a gold Amex card of Tim Galways I was told I couldn't go to the Event or see anyone except Dr Pascotto. They refused to return my phone calls. Rawat was of course just too busey.

When I got Knowledge my parents gave me a card with a picture of a monster on it. Inside they wrote 'Mr Mind won't get you now! This is your true Birthday!' I celebrated it as such. My bedroom was full of photos of GMJ and I had a large alter. I collected things from people in the village to do fundraising for GMJ. I made blacberry jam and other stuff so I could give M money. My mother made his children toys. I secretly wanted to marry Hansi even though he was a bit younger than me. It was as though they were the Royal family and we were the peasants, greateful if a mere old sock from his foot found itself into what GMJ once referred to in a 80s satang as the premies'rat holes'.

But I locked my room at night and I had nightmares and I hated my body with a passion and pretty soon I was bulimic. I've tried to kill myself several times. I've wrecked by body. I'm now chronically ill. The abuse doesn't stop when the abuser stops touching you. It lingers and infects you. You internalise it. My mind was warped by the heavy indocrination.

I'm going to tell you of what I know that he did to another girl in America. Someone who has never posted here and never will. I hope that she understands why I have done this and forgives me. Jagdeo made this lost 12 year old dance for him naked. He told her to take off her clothes because they were Mind. He took her into his bed.

He is sick and the cult that let this happen is sick.

For the last couple of years I have had dreams about being locked in a room I can't escsape. It's the room at Wringford. As I wrote all of this and spoke out and tried to deal with it I had these dreams. In the first one I was standing outside the door and another part of me was behind the door, shaking it, and pushing it and screaming to get out. Her anger scared me. I didn't want her to get out. In the next dream I was moving towards the door. Then I was right near it. I had a key in another dream. Then I had the key in the lock and I was turning it. The last dream I had was amazing. The door was gone ( or so I thought) and I was standing outside somewhere full of light. I tried to move forward but then I saw that there was a glass door in front of me blocking the way. How can I get through this door I asked and a voice said 'Do I really have to spell it out for you?' I said 'yes'. And an invisible finger traced the black letters of CONSCIENCE. For me that means speaking out and telling the truth. It is the only way of getting out of that room.

I hope all who are locked into the Maharaji cult escape too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 23:17:59 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi
Message:

You don't deserve this shit.

Thanks for your posts and I hope you find the best way of exposing this whole sad, sordid affair to a larger audience so that Rawat and his apologists SQUIRM.The first essential of that 'best' way though is for it to be helpful and healing for YOU.

I remember Kissimee 1979....holding my daughter in my arms ...she was a few months old....I came across Rawat spontaneously and silently pledged to love and cherish her for the rest of my life and to do likewise with Rawat.I'm so glad I've left Rawat and SO GLAD I've always and will always love and cherish my daughter.

....I'm sorry but ...your father??????????????

Best Regards

Dermot

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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:12:37 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: To: Dermot :)
Message:

Hi Dermot,

How are you? Thanks for posting what you did above to Abi. Losing her father is but another piece of the horrid stuff Abi has to deal with in all this.

It warms and comforts my heart and restores my faith in humanity to hear all the fathers and mothers here crying out in disbelief and outrage at Abi's father's betrayal, and her stunning account of her childhood horror.

(I guess it didn't take either of us too long to come back here..I hope you stay and we can get to know eachother).

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 12:56:59 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: To: Cynthia :)
Message:

Hi Cynthia

Good to hear from you.

Yeah I agree .. I just can't understand how a father can ignore his daughters suffering to such an extent.

I never did like Jagdeo much even whe he was considered a 'saint' (ha)

I had a bit of an argument with him once in Leicester over a private issue that he butted his fucking concepts into.He was a bit put out that a mere bottom of the rung premie (ha)such as myself would dare to question his authority.

If I were Abi's father I'd be hunting the bastard down in India not kowtowing to Rawat and his cronies.

No, it didn't take us long to return here :) but it's just a fleeting visit on my part as I'm still busy. I'll return on a more regular basis soon though I guess.

...anyway catch ya later !

Best Regards

Dermot

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 22:07:10 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: there is a lot about Jagdeo in the link here too
Message:

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=10770.42217810598

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 20:29:08 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Abi,

You told! You did it! You are free, Abi, FREE! That's so fucking great. Fragmentation was the perfect word for the title of your post. I understand completely. I also have addresses for websites which might interest you. I will email you. You are too much. You TOLD!

Your graphic description of your abuse is one of the most brutal, tortorous, and wounding that I have ever heard of, especially because it happened in that evil cult. And I know in my heart Maharaji knew and did nothing. This I don't doubt.

As for self-pity, it's okay to indulge a bit if you want. Who else can pity that little girl inside that was hurt so bad? Just don't go overboard. You know what I mean.

I'm beyond proud of you. You are way up on my list of brave humans. Congratulations. There's no one else in the world like you. You shook the universe in your post.

Love to you, (...and rest, please)
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 20:04:03 (EDT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Abi,

I found your post to be both thoughtful, reflective, passionate and real. I think from the depth of responses, that others have as well.

I get a sense that you have really had a shift in yourself. I get this from the really healthy tone of your post as well as the clear expression of the content. Healthy tone means to me that the ideas expressed are lucid and clear.

I also get a sense that you are not 'blaming' of MJ and by this I mean that you have simply worked out in a true manner that he is responsible for some fucking nasty crap. Blaming usually means not being self-aware. I get a strong sense of your own self-awareness and conclude that you have been working hard on your own psychic health for some time. Congratulations on this and I hope the physical illness becomes manageable for you as well.

I personally have been touched deeply by your post. I've been currently working with a Catholic school where a teacher suicided. I've been touched by their grief and their anger as well. Your real story here is a shcoking delight.

Thank you

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 18:36:02 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Hi Abi, I'm glad you're back here
Message:

I feel devastated having read your post. It bothers me when I think you're eyesight is getting worse and that you developed pneumonia from your visit to Maha's thugs. How can, NO! never mind, THEY won't get away with this one. You've done excellent homework.

Bottom line: Maharaji has CHOSEN to hire these thugs and INSTRUCT them to coherce you into shutting up? WHY?

PatC asserted that Maha is insignificantand therefore doesn't care. I don't entirely agree with that opinion. Okay, the BigHead is as far form being known as Christ to the Christians, the Messiah to the Jews, and Allah to the Muslims--but the FatOne is obviously worried about being the Cult Leader of this child-sexual abuse scandal. And YES, Maha has perpetrated the scandal. Let us not forget that he himself is GUILTY of sexual abuse himself. No non-cult member will see his sexual liasons as casual sex amongst consenting adults. Not-a-one.

Maha would not be going to such great lengths if it were not the case. I claim Maha is very very very very worried about this, indeed. I'd bet my last breath on it!

I can't believe the confusion, and physical/emotional agony that Jagdeo could inflict on children, not to mention the manipulation of child naviety he dared even dreaming yet fulfilling of committing on a child. This is very disturbing. Makes me very sad.

And your parents telling you shut up when you were having nightmares makes me upset as well. How could this cult have that kind of a stronghold on your parents maternal and paternal sensibilities?

And your father is still justifying it, at least on some level? THis fact alone would draw attention to the cult's clutches on the minds of the followers. Especially if your father is not estranged. It doesn't compute!

By the way, I was sad to see you go last time and now I am very glad to see you've come back. We are your family now, at least till your own parents get much better. And if they do ge tback to normal, we'll still be here. I'm glad you are having a breakthrough in regards to your famial blood being thicker than the cult blood. Sadly, it's apparently not true.

Optimistically, If the trauma has worsened your eyesight, than healing the cause can turn the fate around. Your recient dreams of your trauma seem to have been lucid, I'm hearing a new and increasingly convincing voice in your posts. I liked the part about seeing the CONSCIENCE spelled out for you. And I like your interpretation as well.

I knew it was UGLY when R-II arrived on the scene and when SC/Roupell maliciously taunted you. It kept me away from my school work, and kept up at night crying at times. I would occasionally talk to Jim on the phone and tell him I was devastated with those posts.

It was complete propaganda that you were accused of being a gold-digger by Maha's spin-team, in writing no-less, on the web. Not only did I never think that for a moment but I often wonder why you didn't/don't sue for multi-millions. Maha's corruption in this case is worthy of that price tag. Actually more! but how do you collect dignity, confidence, innocent idealism, hope, adolescence, family, friends, careers, and life memories which have also been lost?

As far as being sick due to releasing repressed ideas of the cult, I agree. I've been going through a real lot of personal trauma, social withdrawal, lack of trust and chronic personal sadness. I actually have to fight to stay grounded and healthy. I'm glad I'm at school, because it keeps my mind fresh and positively active but I feel that finding out you've been royally duped and accepting such is not easy.

And everyone here is at various levels of being OUT and what that means exactly and what that may or may not entail and thus it's even hard to be heard on this forum and forget about telling the world, they just look at you like you have leprosy.

Take care and rest your eyes and also rest assured that you will not go through any more of this without the support of people who care and support your plight.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:34:35 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation ... and integration
Message:

Abi, fragmentation has to be the right word for what you've been through.

You were brought up in a family that worshipped a concept of divinity they called the 'Perfect Master'. An incarnate, physical presence who they (and also us, as former premies) believed to be the Lord. The Second Coming. God in human form. (no matter how much he might now deny it, that is SURELY how he presented himself to the West when he first ensnared so many of us.)

And you have had to live with the fact that this so-called 'perfect master' allowed one of his mahatmas to abuse you since you were nine years old.

Fragmentation, you call it? No other word would suffice.

But, IMO, you've also taken a big step toward re-integration.

It surely must take a lot courage to experience what you've been through - perhaps even more to feel able to tell other people about it.
And one of the most positive consequences of exposing that so-called 'mahatma's' ('great soul's'?) crimes is that other premies and children of premies who have suffered as a consequence of his abuse might feel less inclined to keep silent and deny what happened to them in his presence.

Which brings us to the likes of Pascotto and Sommerville.

You say 'Sommerville's whole rationale for the silencing thing was on the grounds that it would help me heal'.

Silencing does not help a victim one iota. Quite the opposite. Who does Sommerville think he's fooling?

And as for Pascotto, Elan Vital's so-called 'psychologist' - evidently he sees child abuse as something to be hushed up. Why? Simply because it reflects badly on his so-called 'master'.

Before talking with him again, you might want to take a look at this Survivors of Therapists site.

Somebody should report his condoning of the attempt to 'gag' you on this matter to the relevant authorities.

BTW, here's a couple of sites that might be of interest to you:

http://incestabuse.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cs.utk.edu%2F%7Ebartley%2Fother%2Fvast.html

'the memories don't go away but the pain of them ceases with time'
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1124/geobook.html

Reporting suspected child abuse or neglect is one of the most important things you may ever do:

You may save a child's life

You must obey the law

You can break the cycle of abuse

Making a report is not 'snitching', blaming, accusing or judging. It is calling upon professionals with the training, authority and responsibility to investigate.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:41:54 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: PS, Abi
Message:

These two sites might be of help as well:

http://pssp.on.ca/posttrauma.html

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1124/geobook.html

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 13:01:43 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Thank you, Abi, for telling your story. You are very courageous. My involvement with the cult is embarrassing to me now and has caused severe mental illness, schizoaffective disorder. I had a difficult childhood as well. I take some pride in being a survivor and have faith that truth will win out. All the best to you and I hope you receive the necessary therapy and healing that you so deserve.

Steve

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 12:34:25 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: you are so brave Abi
Message:

Thank you for telling the whole story...the whole horror. People just don't get how truly evil Jagdeo was because it is so very hard to tell the story. You are brave and I hope telling it brings you closer to peace.

You were a very little girl, a total innocent who was attacked in the most vile disgusting way, a way that can scar a person forever, by someone who you thought was a great soul, appointed by your Master, your Guru Maharaj Ji, your all to you, the superior power in person. It was a physical and spiritual rape, and I cannot imagine much worse that can happen to a child.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 11:19:28 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Captain Rawat and the Pervert.
Message:

Hi Abi,

I applaud your courage in speaking out against Jagdeo and the cult that protected him.

The way the cult and Captain Rawat have dealt with this matter has been despicable. They have done everything possible to prevent this story becoming public. They’ve lied, threatened, cajoled and used every kind of pressure they could. But they’ve failed miserably. And in the process they’ve shown themselves to be, not an organisation devoted to love and peace, but a mindless, heartless, sycophantic bunch of zombies.

Their only concern, from the moment the story became public, has been to protect Rawat from any adverse publicity. They have never showed any concern or compassion for the victims.

And what do we know about Rawat’s part in all this?

Jagdeo was a close friend of Rawat, who had known him since he was a small boy.

Jagdeo was reported to at least three “Mahatmas”, Gurucharanand in Australia, Judy Osbourne and Randy Prouty in California. One of these told the victim that “Maharaji already knew about this, and was glad it wasn’t somebody else.”

I received an email from an Ex-full time official of the cult, who I know personally. She told me that Jagdeo’s crimes were discussed privately, amongst small groups, at Co-ordinator conferences in the late 80s. The solution was eventually to limit his touring to the Asian communities in the Far East. If anybody reading this was a party to any of these discussion, maybe you could let us know more about what went on.

The people who received reports of Jagdeo’s abuse, are suffering from “memory lapses” now. They haven’t denied it happened. They just, “can’t remember”.

I think there may be many more victims than those who have already come forward. I heard from an Ex-premie who was involved with Unity School in Denver, that Jagdeo used to have “special sessions” with the children there. I hope he wasn’t up to the same shit, but I fear the worst.

The cult should have a thorough and open investigation. It should contact it’s members and ask anyone with information, to come forward. It should set up a fund to finance independent counselling and therapy for all Jagdeo’s victims, and negotiate adequate, satifactory compensation. Rawat could sell a Ferrari or two to kick it off.

Anth, who knows this won’t go away.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 09:12:38 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

I am so so so very sorry. That any child would have to endure this violation is dispicable. That anyone, who had the courage to speak of this, to be treated like this, is just plain shameful and cowardly.

My question is, why the trip to Hawaii to discuss this? Why on Tim Gallway's card? What is the lung disease? I'm suspicous about the timing.

Would you like an international foundation to help children who have been abused by cults?

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 10:20:32 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Frank Sommerville told me that at some stage they might fly me to Hawaii to sign some sort of gag order because he had made it clear to EV/marcia Lietner that he had no interest in flying to Australia or becoming familiar with Australian law. So they had to do it on American soil I guess. If I had signed something like that it would have mewant that I was bound not to talk about the cult to anyone at all except my therapist.

They flew me to Brisbane just before Amaroo. It was an electronic ticket. I told the airport that a cult had paid for it and that I needed to know who in the cult had done this so they told me off the record that Tim Galway had. I had no idea at the time who he was. When I first met Pascotto and told him to thank Galway for me and he looked totally freaked out. I think they live in a paranoid mafia world.

The disease I have is Chronic Airway Obstruction Disease. I got bronchitus just after flying to Brisbane and have had pneumonia and so on ever since. I guess it was the stress.

Sure I would love it if there was such a foundation. What a great idea.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 06:56:30 (EDT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Abi,

Thank you for speaking out yet again. The abuse you suffered at the hands of one of Maharaji’s mahatmas is inexcusable. How Maharaji has responded to this situation is even more indefensible.

PWK please examine your conscience and ask yourself if you are satisfied with how Maharaji and his minions have responded to this situation. If not, please express your outrage.

Michael Dettmers

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:30:12 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Sickened, disgusted and deeply saddened
Message:

You don't know me but I have a daughter and I tell you if anybody did that to my child I'd kill him. I don't care if I had to travel to the ends of the earth to do it. I don't care if it took every penny I owned. I don't care if it took me to my last breath. I'd find that poor excuse for a human and I'd castrate him for starters.

Abi, you're not fragmented. The premies who continue to follow Maharaji with their cult-addled brains are. Any premie who reads your account and continues to invest in M both spiritually, emotionally and intellectually is morally and ethically bankrupt. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry about your father. Part of me wonders if your path to wholeness would be quickened if he would stand beside you. In fact, this might not be an issue now for you. I can only speculate.

I can't tell you how deeply your account affected me. I can only trust that with your spirit and obvious intelligence you will find recourse and retribution.

Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 00:05:47 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Abi,

I said I won't be posting here for a while, but I just couldn't hold myself from reading your post.

I really am lost for words as to what to say. I have read your posts in the past and the story of Jagdeo, but this is the first time that I have been touched by it. It is a terrible thing to go through. Am glad that you have had the courage to say it as it was. I can say'look after yourself' but it's just is not enough.

My heart goes out to you. Lots of love,

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:45:12 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Abi, I so wish I could say something to help. I fear there is nothing that will, but I offer you my love and support. If I can help in any way, please let me know. Feel free to e-mail me if you like; I'd love to talk with you.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:33:28 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Timmi,
thanks for those words and thoughts.
Abi

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 20:27:39 (EDT)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

What a terrible childhood . Seems to me the closer you got to god in human form in those days the more you suffered. I'm having lunch on Sunday with a 22yr old who was brought up in the cult but without an experience like yours . I shall print out your post & give it to her.

That's small consolation for you I know but be proud that you've spoken out . I'm proud of you anyway even though I've never met you .

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:37:52 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Pat,
thanks for that. Funny about the god stuff. It's like a spiritual pollution. Which cult was your friend brought up in?

abi

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:48:59 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: You are one courageous woman Abi
Message:

And ev and rawat really are scumbags, knowing this and treating you the way they have.

I had no idea just how heavy an experience you'd been through.

EV and rawat deserve everything that comes to them, they obviously assumed you would just crumble under the pressure and disappear, and the fact that they are doing so little to track him down, when he could still be doing this in India is absolutely despicable.

I really hope being open like this in public really strengthens you to deal with the demons.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:12:31 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: You are one courageous woman Abi
Message:

You are right. I think they wanted to wear me down so that I would be so desperate I would accept their offer. Got the impression that Sommerville and the rest were very patronising. He said that he wasn't about to minimise what had happened! Talking to him was awful.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:39:40 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

My heart is beating really fast. I have heard many stories of abuse before, but this is a double abuse - a physical/emotional abuse compounded with a spiritual betrayal of the highest magnitude, AND your father is complicit.

So please let us and others who are sane and support you be your family and love you back to health on all levels.

love Katie Darling

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:41:58 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Thanks Katie. I will get past all of this and I will get healthy again somehow. The last six months have been ghastly but taught me a lot.

Abi

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 18:28:38 (EDT)
From: Patrick Wilson
Email: patrick@patrickwilson.com
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Abi, I am sitting here reading your account with another former premie and we both had to respond, just to say how our hearts go out to you over this horrific experience of yours.

I might add that there are some premies that I know who are very upset at the way you seem to have been treated by Elan Vital. One bloke in particular told me today that he had been sexually abused at his school here in the UK and is particularly sympathetic to your misfortune as a result. I got the impression that he knows Valerio and some of these EV people and feels that he would like to express his concerns that you have not been properly treated to them. Of course he is still into Maharaji etc. and is probably not so sure that this reflects badly on his Master. If you want to talk to this guy (though I wouldn't be at all surprised if you don't) email me and I'll put you in touch.
Whatever it takes, you must surely not allow this trauma to make you ill. It's not something to give in to. I personally experienced that I was getting 'physically' ill from my involvement with Maharaji back in the 90's. What was going on exactly I don't really know, but backing off and expressing my misgivings on the forum over a period of years definitely helped me get better.
It sounds weird having a father so tied up in the whole thing - I guess that doesn't help. He should be on your side.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:45:47 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Patrick Wilson
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Thanks Patrick,

I think I'll pass on talking to your friend though. I tried talking to a premie before but the devotion to Rawat just kept on clouding things.

I've heard about other premies getting physically ill from being involved. It does help to have this forum as a support. Sad about my father, but he was always a big time devotee and I guess his own issues are caught up in his need to believe in it all. Too bad.

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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 00:32:21 (EDT)
From: A Friend
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Abi

Your compassion for your father's blindness is top drawer.

At least he has had his greatest desire fullfilled - proximity to a TRUE MASTER . Too bad he hasn't realized yet that the MASTER is YOU !

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:54:09 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: scary stuff;like Freddie Krueger - only real!
Message:

well, if that's miragey's concept of a 'great soul' [mahatma], then the cult is truly sick, sick, sick. hope people reading who are still wavering take note, regarding how miragey and elan vital have empowered, coddled and protected this monster for many years.

hope you regain some good health asap.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:46:57 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: such
Subject: thanks Such
Message:

something is not right with the cult, that's for sure.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:28:39 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Abi,
I have a nine year old girl and I cannot imagine how this must have been for you, I hope it helps to write it here. I also think you are brave to write about this. I just can't get over how Jagdeo exploited his position to invoke fear, so he could carry on in his sick and twisted way. This is just horrible and I am so sorry.

You call your post 'fragmentation' and I understand that that is what the mind and body does in response to extreme trauma, but your narrative is not fragmented at all, it is very clear. I wish you health and happiness. And freedom from the grip of this monster--no, two monsters--Jagdeo the perpetrator and Maharaji the 'passive' monster.
Helen

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:48:58 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

What really gives me the creeps is that Susan told them about him and nothing was done. That they knew about it and did nothing.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:22:22 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Speechless
Message:

I have no idea what to say.....except, thanks for telling the truth. It's unthinkable that a child would have to go through such hell.

How can Elan Vital justify the way they attacked you? How can Maharaji and Elan Vital justify continuing to abuse you? Like you said, where is the conscience of people like Marcia Leitner, Valerio Pascotto and Maharaji? Is this what that cult does to people?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:51:24 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Speechless
Message:

Guess it is what the cult does to people, at least these ones. I got the impression that they thought I was Mind because I have posted here. Mind is the enemy. Ironic that Jagdeo thought that childresn clothes were Mind and had to be removed. Sickening.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:22:08 (EDT)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@idigo.ie
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear dear Abi, that is just the worst thing I've read for a very long time. Well done for spelling it out. Don't give up on your life because of that lung disease (I have a potentially serious disease myself and it has actually helped me appreciate each day much more) .. you are infinitely precious and with your bravery and honesty there is much benediction ahead.

I know that what was done to you was one of the worst crimes that can be done and I don't know how to help to find justice for you, But knowledge is strength and this info only spurs us on to seek justice.

Much love and admiration
Tim

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:54:11 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Dear Tim,

I wont give up and you are right that illness makes you more aware of how precious life is. I am just so glad that there is a real world outside the Maharaji cult.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:56:59 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks, Abi. I needed to hear that.
Message:

I had never heard the whole sordid story before. I just hope that it is doing you good to let it all out and not keep any secrets. I know that it helps me to just tell the truth about pain and hurt from my past.

I doubt if you will ever get anything but more lies from the cult in their vain attempt to whitewash Rawat. Expecting them to soothe you pain is futile.

I think you know by now that there are lots of us here who will make sure that you story is widely known and than you will be not only vindicated one day but healed of this revolting sadistic and insane thing that destroyed your childhood.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 22:57:13 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: thanks Pat
Message:

I know you've been through it too. So many people have. You know what, it didn't destroy my childhood though because part of me was so angry that it kept me vital. There is part of you that they can never hurt.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:37:19 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Abi
Subject: I wish I knew you. I know I'd like you.
Message:

But I do worry about you anyway. I'm probably your father's age and possibly knew him in England in the early seventies and your mom too and maybe even saw you as a little kid. But I can't think too much about that because I'm afraid it is making me cry to think of you as a child going through that.

You're probably about my son's age and I worry about your health. Please email me anytime you wish if you wan't to talk about that.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:48:57 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ...
Message:

... it sounds shallow to say that. I don't know what else to say.

You are brave, you are graceful in the midst of horror. And you are free.

With love,

Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:14:29 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: I am free!
Message:

You are so right.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:20:50 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re: ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ...
Message:

I recieved a message wanting my comments on mr prem pal rawat form the above - I have no idea whe he got my email address as I very rarely us my real address, and I haven't used it in 3-5 months. Ideas or comments

Here is the url he sent me - I haven't been there yet as whois returns no such domain name.
Ben
[ Lineage of Mr Prepal Rawat ]

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:17:08 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Re: ASOLUTELY BEST OF FORUM** although ...
Message:

For Sommerville, talking about this is exactly what prevents the healing process. His whole rationale for the silencing thing was on the grounds that it would help me heal. Said he worked with a team of psychologists who helped him deal with people like me. Gave me the creeps. All these cover-ups he's created. God knows what truths he has silenced.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:59:04 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Fragmentation
Message:

Abi
For the 3 or so years I've been here I have always wondered why some who had left the cult decades ago still post here. I did not understand it at all. Now I am rethinking this after reading your post and am glad those people are around.

There are demons in my head that won't go away, things that happened to me and I know if I could write them here it would help me.
I admire your courage.

I remember being sad that I lived in an area where there was no Unity School to send my children!! Now I feel sick at the thought.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:04:21 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hope you write them out
Message:

I think it does help to put it down. To make sense of it. It's like an exorcism, especially if you don't indulge in it and get caught in self-pity. That can be a trap.

Thanks for your support

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Date: Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 03:55:32 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: pmaccanner@hotmail.com
To: Abi
Subject: Dear Abi
Message:

I am so sorry that happened to you. I hope that speaking out will be the start of a better time for you. I think it is so brave and generous of you.

Unity School had finished by the time I had my kids or I could have easily moved down there feeling I would be doing the best for them.

I don't suppose there is anything I can do as I live in the UK and don't have any contacts but I feel moved to offer. My address is above.

Peg

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 16:50:34 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: self pity as a trap
Message:

Yes it's a huge one. I've been stuck there but am not anymore. Finally. Thanks for answering Jim about your dad. I've wondered but was cautious about asking because someone once posted to me in a way that made me feel I was being too demanding in my posts to you. So I've tried to be quiet but I can't help but reach out.
Love,
Selene

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 15:50:17 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Holy .................................
Message:

Abi,

You've never heard me say this here before but I've got tears in my eyes on this one. No, to hell with that, I'm simply crying. Lots of love, girl. Too much, too, too much.

Your father ..... how can he....aw forget it....

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:01:51 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: yes, my dad...
Message:

Don't really understand him at all. He got darshaned is all I can say. He even thought that Rawat was talking to him personally during satsang. They made him feel special. He actually told me when I was in Brisbane that he felt torn between me and Rawat and my jaw just dropped. He struggled with this for a bit and then came down on their side. Dr Pascotto is a very smooth talker.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 16:37:34 (EDT)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Abi you are wonderful
Message:

...for being so brave and honest.
I have never read such a moving and poignant post.
I wish you all the best and hope that you have a good life.
It sounds to me that you have developed a strong and brave character despite such terrible abuse.
cheers
berni

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: thanks berni
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 17:48:06 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Well done Abi
Message:

I am so sorry you had to go through this and admire your bravery. These are the reasons why the forum needs to get back on topic.
Love to you Magiclara

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:06:06 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: thanks to you
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 21:53:49 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: How traumatic--still
Message:

Your writing will be shared with others.
I cant imagine how hard writing it must be as reading it is
traumatic enough.
Truly Gerry is right to focus us while you are unearthing so much.
One day your father will come away from the evil fuck.
Let us see the legal document they claim they sent to evil jerkdeo.
Let them give us his address and town so the local police can be aware of what is in thier midst.

You are my main reason for my plans.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 11, 2001 at 23:09:10 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: How traumatic--still
Message:

Dear Bill,
I don't think my father will ever leave Rawat. He said as much to me. He can't see that Rawat has anything to do with this really.

And I don't think they will ever surrender much about Jagdeo. They just close ranks and really they don't give a damn.

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Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 03:55:55 (EDT)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: How traumatic--still
Message:

Dear Abi,
You're right, they can't give a damn, they can't understand, the thing that is real for them is their sick making emotional attachment to Mr Rawat. But, and it's a big but, the common or garden premies, as they hear your story, are voting with their feet.

My sympathy is with you, love Lesley

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