Vicki -:- Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)

__ Peter Howie -:- Re: AND -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)

__ __ Vicki -:- Re: Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Very True, Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)

__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Hate to be a devil's advocate but ... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Other Names -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)

__ __ __ JHB -:- This is what happened on EPO -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)

__ Peg -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Different Forum. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)

__ __ Chuck S. -:- It IS possible, Peg... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)

__ __ Peg and Joe -:- Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)

__ __ __ Jim S -:- Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)

__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- I think it's important to realise, too... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Agree with conditions -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Peg -:- Hi Deborah -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hi Peg -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks for that... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Wonderful, heartfelt post -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ KatieH -:- Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM** -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Thanks Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Newly Exiting Premies... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- More great posts Cynthia and Tonette -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- NoNoNo, Jim... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)

Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Newly exiting premies
Message:

I've been mulling over the situation of people who are rather shell shocked in learning the facts about M and EV. It is indeed a very fragile state, customed designed. It doesn't hit everyone the same way, but it does hit and hit hard.

The suggestion I would like to propose is that we have a sub forum. Is this possible? Whereby a new person would be able to say what they need to say and are not responded to except by perhaps a few people who are rather good in this much needed hand holding phase. Perhaps the person John was referring to, for starters. Then, when they are through this phase and feel a bit stronger, they can jump into the forum and join in the fun.

I know I'm setting myself up for getting a good shakedown here, but at the risk of sounding offensive, without the benefit of time between a person and the world of knowledge, it is too fresh and raw to be handled in a typical way.

Look at the incredible amount of highly intelligent people here who joined up with M and how long it has taken to unravel the web that all that involved, still involves. Hindsight is 20/20, but new peolple do not have that luxery yet.

I remember how I felt when I made my first, naive posting. The response I got back felt like a ton of bricks crashing down. It wasn't, but it FELT like it. People who are fully involved in practicing knowledge and devoted to M are in a precarious position when the facts come to light and their world shakes, rattles and rolls on the reichter (sp) scale. Anything that can be done to ease this pain would perhaps be of benefit, and we will all eventually benefit when their information of the inner workings of behind the scenes sees the light of day.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:

On your idea of a sub-forum for new exes.... Well, as I said elsewhere, maybe a gentle 'exiting' forum would be a good idea. A forum for exes only - where only issues directly relating the cult were discussed. But I think it would have to be open to all exes. Cos who knows who would be a 'special' person to an exiting premie... different strokes for different folks....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: AND
Message:

Hi there,

I support your idea but I have no energy for this type of thing. But if you do, then go for it. Get a few collaborators together and create it. Part of my current mission in the world is the creation of an AND culture. This AND that - not this OR that. Which means there is room for many different types of solutions.

I remember my first post here - Jim crashing down like a hefalump and feeling sorry for me, a few bemused responses and a few supportive responses. I've also found as much and more difficulty posting on other highly friendly, integrated, professioanl internet/email groups. Self presentation is problematic for most people in certain circumstances. If you can do something to create another space where people who are unable or unwilling to post here, could do so then - best of luck! It would be a worthwhile endeavour. Either for yourself or encouraging others to join you. I'd also be interested to be kept abreast of any such development.

Good luck

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:

Hi Vicki,

I live next to the sea. When I go for a swim, it's really uncomfortable getting in, because it's cold at first. It's OK after a few minutes, but the initial getting wet is the worst bit of all. It's not comfortable. It's too late to turn back because you'd look like a prat. Ugggh. Aaaagh. Why does it have to be so.

I remember when I first crept nervously out the cult. My feelings were as you describe. My fingers shook the first time I posted (anonymously) on the forum. But it's OK. I don't think any ex-premies who post here do for any negative reasons. Most folk are actually quite friendly.

Swim. Splash. Adjust. Aaah. It's not so bad. In fact I'm enjoying it. The sea's not so cold after all. Outside the cult life is a bit more rough and ready. What people say isn't controlled. Some people aren't as friendly and lubby dubby as we might like. Some folk are downright rude.

But it's OK. The heart of this forum is healthy and free. Nobody's come up with a better idea yet.

And once you get your shoulders wet, and splash around a bit, it's OK.

Getting your ideas challenged is healthy.

Come on in. The water's lovely. (This cold, salty analogy, won't make sense to folk who leave near a warm sea.)

Anth the drip drip splash glug cough (choking on my own words as usual).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:

You are absolutely spot on, as per usual. If I had been able to articulate what I was feeling, you might have responded with this lovely post, and I might have been a little braver.

So if there is anyone who wants to post but is afraid, it is exactly as Anth says.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water
Message:

In my ten months here maybe I have seen about ten new comers arrive and you were the only one who seemed to just slip in like it was your natural environment. I did not but that's because I charge in like a bull in a china shop. I really appreciate having you here. You are so damn sane an sensible.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Very True, Vicki
Message:

I think you hit the nail on the head. Like we were discussing down below, what seems to many of us as just normal discussion, on this subject, to a questioning premie, it seems like a personal attack because the cult-programming is so ingrained, and so much of the identity of a premie. It's hard to take on the 'arguments' without seeming overly aggressive, even hurtful to the newly freed.

Didn't the 'recent exes' forum fulfill the function to a certain extent? I have never been there, but from what I understand it has been utilized quite a lot. The problem is you have to get a password and in the early stages of leaving the cult, someone may not want to do that.

It's a difficult thing to address. I think the major answer is for all of us to keep in mind what it felt like when we left the cult. Although it was a long time ago, I was devestated, and very fragile. I stayed away from premies, and they stayed away from me. But it would have been nice to be able to contact some ex-premies and get some help. So, on balance, even with all of its flaws, this forum is better than people trying to go 'cold turkey' on their own.

I think this is a really good issue to keep coming back to, because it's important, particularly if, as appears to be happening, premies are leaving the cult in larger numbers than before.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hate to be a devil's advocate but ...
Message:

... there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from starting any kind of forum they please. Vicki's suggestions and the suggestions of several others are very good, and possibly this sort of thing is needed, but F7 and EPO are not an organization. There's no club to petition here!

When people suggest things, there is no one to do it, unless someone likes the suggestion and wants to step up to the plate. I daresay a premie who has not exited or is newly exiting may want to start this sort of thing up, themselves. Maybe it could be called Doubting Thomases or something like On the Fence. As I understand it, RecentExes is for people that are sure they are through with the Maha. If someone is still wavering, they probably won't belong there either.

Most people don't seem to have either the time or the computer knowledge to start and monitor new Forums. It's not easy. My hats are off to Gerry, Chuck (AGII) and RE for being there for people.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Other Names
Message:

How about:

Limboland
Mirage Ji
Exit Signs
Border Crossing
Repair Shop
Not Yet Ready for Prime Time
The Recovery Room
The Last Training
Head Cleaner
The China Shop

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: This is what happened on EPO
Message:

When I blocked Jim from ForumV because I felt EPO was under threat and people complained, I said, as others have, that if people want a forum run the way they want, then they can set one up. This is what happened with Sir Dave setting up Forum VI and consequently Gerry with Forum VII. Everyone who looks after a forum or a website does so because they think it's worthwhile. They don't work for anyone else, and are not accountable to anyone else; except in my case, as I have inherited a website, I feel responsible to the people whose work set it up and helped me leave the cult.

Anyway, if anyone sets up a new forum, then I'll be happy to link to it from EPO.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:

Well I won't shout you down. I am sure the whole thing is reaching a critical mass and there will be lots of people who come here. My husband was told that maharaji has gone into a recluse mode.. who knows where that will end up. The thing is there will also be lots of people who don't come here too. I notice that an awful lot of the people here are pretty articulate, intelligent, curious etc also they are to some degree into computers. I don't think all premies are like that, hopefully something will evolve for them too.

I have also thought about another kind of forum. One difficulty is that if it was open (which it would surely need to be for people to be attracted to it) it would almost certainly be visited by disruptive premies. perhaps it is possible to have anyone reading but password protected for posting? I expect there will be some constructive and computer literate solutions put forward. I quite like the idea of doing that 'service' if we can get something together. I wouldn't be able to do the computer stuff at the moment tho.
Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Different Forum.
Message:

Hi Peg,

You can have a forum with different levels of access, set up how you like. I think the old recent exes forum was for members only. To join you had to be proposed by an existing member.

It's three years since I left the Captain's cult, and I'm starting to forget what it was like.

Take care,

Anth, to some degree into computers.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: It IS possible, Peg...
Message:

Your idea to have a forum where everyone could read, but only people with a password could post, is possible with a Hotboards forum (like this one). Even a 'free' forum (with advertisments) gives you that option. Signing up to create a forum is just as easy as signing up for a free email account.

The difficulty is, who decides who is allowed to have a password, and who is not? Would people be allowed to post anonymously? Your idea is a good one, but someone would have to step forward and be willing to be 'in charge', and set the ground rules. If a few people got together and did it as a team, it would probably be easier on all concerned.

Also, a paid forum is $10.00 a month for up to 25,000 postings, and it costs an additional $10.00 for every additional 25,000 postings. (A 'free' forum has a limit on the number of posts allowed, I forget the exact figure). On my Anything Goes forum, I have yet to pay more than $10.00 a month, because it hasn't reached 50,000 a month. But on this forum, I think the figure is pushing close to $100.00 a month (Gerry could say for sure).

Probably the biggest problem to solve is getting people who have the time to devote to setting it up and managing it, especially when passwords are involved. I unfortunately don't have the time, the Anything Goes forum pretty much runs by itself, I only step in if there is a major problem, and there hasn't been one yet (knock on wood!).

I suspect a forum like you suggest would work best if managed by a small group, so the work didn't all fall on one person. It's just a question of who wants to get together to do it, and if it would be a paid site or a free (limited use) site.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)
From: Peg and Joe
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:

Maybe even a specially flagged posting here that designates a new person who wants to post without being deluged with debate? I know we all like to hear from new people, no matter what stage they are in, and any information, whether it is from an x-rated, pam, church lady or average premie, is of value. I don't think it's too much to ask for some kid glove treatment during the initial exiting. Infact, I feel it's essential when people are trying to regain their footing.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)
From: Jim S
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:

I agree, that might be easily done.

Maybe an icon that would designate a new poster who would rather not be challenged at this point, but simply wants to post and hear from other like minded people who have had similar experiences....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: I think it's important to realise, too...
Message:

... that posting on an internet forum, ANY intenet forum, for the first time, can be a daunting experience. Total strangers start to disect your posts, and ask you to explain yourself. It's very easy to interpret that as an attack, but it helps to remember that this is a place of words and ideas; no one can see your face, they often know nothing about your personality. They only see the ideas you have expressed, and when they question that, it's easy to be taken aback, and feel you are being challenged to defend yourself.

That's how it seemed to me at first, but since then I've become used to the process, and now it just seems natural and ordinary if anyone questions what I say. It often leads to further clarification, or helps me modify my position in lieu of new or better information. I've also realized that I don't have to agree with anyone anyway, that it's o.k. to disagree, or even refuse to talk to anyone I don't want to talk to.

So at least to a degree, the apprehension new exes may feel in posting may well be their general inexperience posting on an internet forum. I've vistied other forums since posting here, and found that other forums aren't so different, in terms of the ways people communicate (and mis-communicate). When you are new to the internet fourm arena, it takes a while to get your bearings and feel comfortable. Even becoming familiar with the mechanics posting adds to the stress till you figure out how it all works.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Agree with conditions
Message:

Hi peg,

Long time, no post. How are you doing? Do you feel that you were handled appropriately when you arrived? I remember posting to you and giving you some pointers to deflect unwanted responses.

How about having a preamble about 'how-to' arrive. i.e.

1. Introduce yourself or your handle and say something about yourself in regards to Maha.

2. Mention what you want to talk about and what you don't and if challenged, ask the poster not to question you further, etc.

The onus should not be on the exes to take apologetic swipes on the chin or abusive 'hate' and 'angry' slurs, etc.

But yes, compromise. don't forget: RE is acceptance only and they do not want people sitting on the fence. For a good reason. It is Recent Exes and they NEED to talk NOT debate.

Thanks for your input Peg.

deborah

p.s. Also, NO cacweasels allowed in the house ~)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deborah
Message:

I remember you were one of those people who spoke to me first. Everyone was vey kind when I first arrived and actually has been since.

But I was already over the fence by that time, (I wonder if anyone can really read epo and not be) and I am not the sort of person who gets a strong response, I'm pretty scared and cautious where people are concerned.

The people who get the stick, apart from the premie wind up merchants, are the doubting premies who come here and try and salvage some goodness out of the whole thing by arguing. i wanted to do this too but was too careful to do much of it out loud. Now I find myself still intact and in fact even liberated and clearly see that I was really repressing a lot to be a premie.. now I can let myself be angry and critical and agree with the general climate here. It takes a while though to clamber down to the other side and get my bearings. All sorts of loose ends to tie up.

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

 

Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Hi Peg
Message:

Peg,

You say,

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

I personally would like to see every premie be an ex. But it's not a direct goal. My main goal is to see Maha shut up once and for all and pack up his silly but dangerous megalomaniac greedy con game.

It is more my goal to diffuse as much of Maha's momentum and expose his past and current inconsistencies. He is a fraud and the level of psychological damage that he is causing people is criminal. I walked away over a decade ago, but I never acknowledged the cult and its implications. To eventually do so, was devastating. And that process only happened here at the EPO forum. I had conveniently discounted my encounter w/Maha as an adolescent spiritual mistake. Bull shit! When I opened the door to let that phantom out, it choked me.

Witnessing Michael Dettmers' post confirmed something BIG was wrong.

To read that a premie I knew committed suicide, asking Maha to reincarnate her in the next lifetime with him was what cracked that cult-safe open. Could you imagine the pain that her family had to endure reading her last words.

And I know for a fact, that her parents tried to deprogram her, but Maha's goons deceived her parents. She also came from a famous literary family. And I think her mother is an actress on a campy soap opera. Of course, we saw that as 'the Grace of the Lord'. How sad! That showed me the depth of the cult damage.

Peg, another thing about this forum is that it is dynamic. And s0metimes we fight amongst ourself and the forum breaks up and in the case of FV, Jim got banned. The one person I had met in over 12 yrs and the whole thing freaked me out.

What was worse, is that I was left on my own to deal with the multiple personalities coming from at least two premies apiece. And their goal was to upset me and they were UGLY, I mean UGLY.

So, I thought there was about 30 premies all equally sick in the head and violently abusive. Turned out it was the tactics of a couple of premies whose names I'm sure you can guess. So, needless to say, I attacked anybody who was a premie because I thought they were all the same and I never knew who was who. That shit can't go on here anymore.

When I got a grasp of the situation and realized that some premies were not the same as the monsters, I changed my attitude completely.

I'll defend the accusations but I feel the challenge is just in being here and I'd rather have them comfortable and stay and learn something.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Peg and Vicki
Message:

I'm glad you are raising this subject. I was wanting to ask you what your experience was. This really needs tobe talked about. Until we get some sort of ''subforum'' into place I would suggest that a link to a little blurb be put at the top of the forum saying something like: ''New posters please click here to find out more about this forum.''

The blurb could say something like this:

''New posters please be aware that there are some heated discussions already occurring on this forum and it is not a good idea to jump into a controversial conversation immediately until people have gotten to know you.

''Please introduce yourself and request email addresses from people you already know or ask for someone kind and patient person to email you to help you to introduce yourself.

''Look at the White Pages addresses on EPO and see if there is an ex-premie who you know. It is also a good idea to read the Journeys section on EPO and see if there are any exes with whom you feel you could relate to and perhaps email them.

''The Ex-premie forum has a long history and many of the people here have known each other for years. Corresponding with one of the regulars who can fill you in on this history would help to understand many of the dynamics of the forum.

''Because it is an open forum cult apologists do post here and they can be extremely insulting and disruptive in their attempts to intimidate ex-premies. It is best to ignore them.''

Something to that affect. I feel as if I've already been here forever eventhough it's only been ten months but it took me at least six months to really understand the regulars and to trust and respect them.

I would like to see all new exes have more say in this.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Peg and Vicki
Message:

Elan Vital inadvertantly sent me to EPO. I was on First Class, checking in to see what needed doing, and came across a blurb that said if anyone needed counseling from the disruption at the Mainz (sp) program, they should call said number and talk with instructors.

Well, that put a big question in my curious brain and so I went looking to find out what could have possibly happened that people would need counseling. No where on the net could I find anything so I ended up here and found it being discussed on the Forum. I started reading the EPO site and got my socks blown off.

I would check in to see what ya all were discussing and I remember feeling like I wanted to say something, but didn't dare. I just wanted to talk but I didn't even know what to say, how to say it or if I could say anything at all. The more days that went by and I kept logging on to the Forum, the more amazed I was that people were actually so open. I finally couldn't stand it anymore and got brave, jumped in and honestly it felt like I had hit a button to detenate myself when I actually posted. It was terrifying.

That posting was so very hard. You all were seasoned, had been through this rocky journey, were rock solid in your convictions, and here I was, this nearly 30 year pwk that was dutifully living the life and times of Maharaji's World. For those of you that weren't there, that was a big buzz word at a Long Beach event.....the world of knowledge. There's this world but then there's the other world, the world of knowledge.......

For me, it was like jumping into a blender and having someone hit frappe. I can't explain what it's like to one day be a Erika whats her name and the next, sitting bug eyed at the comp feeling like calling 911 to bring a straight jacket, and take me where? Where the hell does one go to recover, recapture, reorganize a life that flew out the window in less than a blink of an eye?

I couldn't call my best friends who had watched me join up way back when and thought I'd lost all my marbles.

I couldn't call up my parents who had watched me march off to every corner of the world to see M, join an ashram and leave behind everything that had ever meant anything to me.

I couldn't tell my husband that the greatest thing in my life, which I introduced him to, was a big scam.

I couldn't tell my children, who I had spoon fed on knowledge and now wanted knowledge for themselves, that it was all possibly one big lie.

I couldn't call up the premies I have spent these years with and blow their world up along with mine.

I couldn't put an APB out over First Class and ask for clarification, well maybe I should have.

The point is, as my world was falling apart, I really had no where to turn but here. Honestly.

Finding a psychiatrist and to even start to go into this was too much to even contemplate.

Nope, you guys were it. You didn't know you were it, but you were. Sanity in the face of my dwindling grip on the most intimate part of my soul.

Trying to sort through EPO was daunting, but coming to the Forum was real. You were real people talking. And as much as I needed the history, I needed real people at the most fragile time in my life.
I've been through a lot in my life, a whole lot as a matter of fact, but not one thing has knocked me more for a loop than finding out my perfect master, my living lord, my reason for having a human life make sense, was a....well you all know what goes here.

So what would have made it easier for me? I don't know, something between recent ex's (too scared to give my real name and email) and the forum. Although, I feel if people on the forum had known what my state of being was, they would have been gentle. But it doesn't help in those first days to be told it will get better. It's true, but the feelings are so raw, honestly I just needed some tlc and chai. That chai thread was one of my favorites.

My reason for starting this discussion was because if it is as John says, then it would be great if we could update just a little to make it easier for the ones he said want to post but aren't strong enough yet. I am eternally grateful for everyone here and for the EPO site.
It would have been a long, long, long lonely road to try and go it alone.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!!
Message:

Amazing, and articulate Vicki! Just amazing.

Good work. Maybe this should be your journey? I haven't written mine yet either!

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks for that...
Message:

Wow, that was amazing. I could almost feel those feelings. I hope your post can get saved, because so many people need to hear that others are feeling the same things they are. And isn't it wonderful that in those times it isn't isolation but other people whom you sought to be with?

I love that line. To one day be Erika Andersen and then the rest...

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Vicki
Subject: Wonderful, heartfelt post
Message:

Vicki, that was such a warm and wonderful post. The image of your heart changing in the blink of an eye as you read the forum was amazing, and so accurate.

So glad you're here.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)
From: KatieH
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM**
Message:

I'm glad you started to post here - your posts have been great. BTW, I do remember what you mean about Mainz - Wolfie brought it up here.
Thanks,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks Vicki
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki
Message:

I bet you don't realize that you are writing history. Maybe not the kind everyone will be interested in but that will help other people who were caught up in this cult.

I had no idea that EV offered ''counselling'' after the French debacle. That's history. Thank you. I bet you didn't even realize that that is a significant piece of information.

You said their was a disruption at Mainz. I thought it was in Versaille. Jean-Michel was blamed for that of course. He's a wonderful man.

A post by Pauline Premie inspired me to join in the fun here. I was ROTFLMAO as you would say. I had tears in my eyes. That's what made me realize I belonged here. I needed that healthy irreverence to break my superstitious fear of M. My heartfelt thanks to Pauline Premie.

Someone else once said that his break with the cult occurred because of Chuck's spoof You Too can be Satgooroo

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Newly Exiting Premies...
Message:

Hi All,

Vicki's post certainly brought back memories of my cow in a china shop entrance, exit, re-entrance, exit, and my last return to the forum which has stuck. Yes, yes, I can be a bitch, I know. But I am concerned that new exes realize that if they are honest with us we will be honest with them. Often they might not like what they read, but isn't that also part of the exiting? Learning to think, question authority, allowing doubts about m to emerge, the emotions, and examining the whole gawd-awful con is part of leaving.

Some new ex-premies post here before first reading EPO and observing the forum. Some have a tendency to want to change it--I know because I had plenty of suggestions at first. I've seen it again and again in other newbies. Is it part of the ''always be nice'' syndrome learned from the cult? I guess none of this is easy, especially with EV Monitors, CACa sites, and Maharaji going down the tubes.

It's very painful to admit that 25 years of my life were used up believing in santaji. Leaving the cult is much more than saying ''I quit'' and walking away (M always says premies are free to come and go--yeah, right).

IMO, this forum is the only place for exes to come, new or old, to discuss the experience of being in the Maharajism cult, and the process of leaving. It's a tender time for new exes, but I believe that it's healthy for new exes to dip their toes in the water here.

We're not a bunch of monsters and we are imperfect humans. There's a lesson in that. There is much kindness here, too.

I've always thought this place to be inprecedented. Unless someone is actually suicidal or seriously mentally ill, they will live through coming to the forum. I've noticed a new civility here lately and it's good. Yet, as we never were allowed to do before, we do argue like siblings sometimes. I don't see anything wrong in having disagreements, as long as the new exes realize it's probably something between two folks right here, and is not about them.

Just my penny's worth,
Cynthia

P.S.: The humor here is vital, too. For some, the jokes about m might be too much at first. It was pretty weird for me, but I got over it soon and find it a healthy release. Doggie Darshan!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious
Message:

Hey Cynthia and Pat,
I found this thread very interesting in that it pretty much sums up the dynamics of the forum. This forum can be loving, extremely funny and also brutally hurtful. The problem with this forum and it's form of commucication, is that it lacks the other equally important cues of communication. Voice inflection, bodylanguage and facial expression to name a few. This form of non-verbal communication, here on the forum, is limited at best. It's so easy to misunderstand what someone is trying to convey to you. Was that sarcasm? A joke? Did that person just call me stupid? Why is this person so angry?
Another problem with this forum is for those of us who don't know each other in person. I don't think I have ever met anyone who posts here nor do I know anyone here from my premie days. I might have known of you but I don't have any old friends here. That's okay in and of itself, but it does and did put me at a disadvantage when I first started posting here. That's why I think the Latvaian Nights are such a good idea when they happen.
I agree with you Cynthia, this forum has mellowed somewhat in recent months. I think everyone for the most part is much gentler and more tolerant of each other. I know I am.
I remember becoming completely consumed with this forum when I first was directed here. I also remember feeling extremely angry. Up to that point in my life, I had not had anyone to whom I could discuss my complete disgustion with Maharaji. My husband was a premie at the time and thanks to this venue he has exited. And prior to exposure to this forum, I had not been able to understand and come to terms with what the fuck had exactly happened to me. How and why did I get sucked into a cult and end up spiritually raped? I always considered myself so level headed for the most part. The information here and on EPO has helped immensly. But boy, coming here really 'liberated' some suppressed and repressed feeling and thoughts in regards to Maharaji and those who help him perpetuate it. Maybe that's not fair to the PAM's but it's my take on it. I still have some anger and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing but my predominate thoughts and feelings toward premies in general is pity. My take on M is one of disgust. I think he is evil and probably dangerous. In my book, he spreads more suffering and psychological harm that is given by his circus stunt meditation techniques.
Yes, the forum is a process. Posting is an acquired art. Just learning the lingo here can take awhile. You also have to be careful in some respects. And for pete's sake, to those who are new here, don't get drunk and post. You end up embarrassing yourself. Remember, above all, not to take it too seriously. A slightly thickened skin is advantageous.

Kind regards, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: More great posts Cynthia and Tonette
Message:

I also want to say how glad I am that Vicki, Peg, Magiclara and Suedoula have persevered and added their voices to the forum and for emailing me and tellingme more about themsleves. Thanks to all of you but an especial thanks to Pauline Premie who saved me from the clutches of a dying cult.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: NoNoNo, Jim...
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What?
Message:

I don't remember that. What they did to poor old Ned Beatty is called doggie style.

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